nope! no such thing as that in my dictionary.
i bet you still believe in toothfairies.. . .

@ Wesley, nope. everyone knows they don't exist who dosen't know?

Good question Layi. To be candid man, I must say I respect your comments so far on this topic. I'll be back in about 5hrs from now. Then I'll post my own comments.

i'll be waiting.

i must say i don't believe in witchcraft - or rather, I don't believe there is any power in witchcraft or i don't believe practitioners have any supernatural powers.

Someone mentioned earlier - when talking about bringing in proof of witchcraft - they sarcastically said - bring in a picture of the air we breathe. Now. . .I'm sure you know that we have scanning electron microscopes - if you really want a picture of air. . i'm sure i can find it for you. . .

allonym:

i must say i don't believe in witchcraft - or rather, I don't believe there is any power in witchcraft or i don't believe practitioners have any supernatural powers.

Someone mentioned earlier - when talking about bringing in proof of witchcraft - they sarcastically said - bring in a picture of the air we breathe. Now. . .I'm sure you know that we have scanning electron microscopes - if you really want a picture of air. . i'm sure i can find it for you. . .

This is a good attitude to the problem:
* witchcraft exists
* it is not supernatural
* there is no power in it

Basically meaning that it's just like a belief in father Christmas (Santa):
* there are certain rituals (hanging up a sock to put in the candy the night before Christmas)
* There is nothing supernatural about is (mum and dad fill up the sock, not father Christmas)
* The believers (children) know for sure that father Christmas really exist because they've seen the proof: there are gifts and the sock is full

The real problem is that we're talking about adults believing in it, with all their power and their impact on the community

Layi: U were actually comparing them. read your posts again. U said/implied that if science discoveries could be passed down, then witcraft should be passed down as well if it really exist.

OK, let's just agree that we have constrasting ideas as to what comparison means.

Assumption. That setles it. You have no evidence and that i can't readily produce 1 don't mean there aint evidence.

Absolutely... of course I'm assuming. The thing is, you can prove the existence of a thing (if the thing is properly defined), but you can never prove the non-existence of a thing. Think about it - how would prove conclusively that something doesn't exist?

This means that if someone were to define an instance of witchcraft precisely then show me several instances involving witchcraft and show me with independently verified evidence that the events could not possibly have been caused by anything else, then I would be moved to believe.

There are 2 questions I have for you all.

1. Do you believe GOD exists?

2. Do you believe SATAN exists?

If you believe God exists, then why do some folks here not believe in the supernatural? GOD is a supernatural being.

If you believe satan exists, then why do some folks here say there's nothing like witchcraft, knowing that the devil is the mastermind behind all forms of soccery and devilish acts?

P.S. I really don't blame wesley for opposing these stuffs because she once said that she doesn't believe in God.

I believe that God and Satan exists - that does not mean I believe there is power in people who claim to practice witchcraft.

Human beings are not God or Satan or angels or devils. Humans are not supernatural beings. We were not endowed with supernatural powers. So, I still don't see how a belief in God and or knowing Satan exists (it doesn't seem right to say a belief in Satan) will mean I should believe that there is true power in witchcraft.

I know people love to cite the business of the witch of Endor from the bible as biblical proof of witchcraft - well, if by witchcraft, you mean someone who the devil talks to. . . then I suppose I can believe that there are people here (on this planet. .not nairaland) who may have some sort of communication with the devil. The bible does not go any further in describing what the witch could do, and the word witch has probably been changing ever since the Old Testament was written. So, I don't see this as definite proof of witchcraft - which I'm assuming we have defined as the use of supernatural powers for non unGodly purposes.

goodguy:

There are 2 questions I have for you all.

1. Do you believe GOD exists?

2. Do you believe SATAN exists?

If you believe God exists, then why do some folks here not believe in the supernatural? GOD is a supernatural being.

If you believe satan exists, then why do some folks here say there's nothing like witchcraft, knowing that the devil is the mastermind behind all forms of soccery and devilish acts?

P.S. I really don't blame wesley for opposing these stuffs because she once said that she doesn't believe in God.

I don't believe in either and on a logical level, there is just as little reason to assume the existence of God and the Devil as there is to believe in witchcraft. As Ka [/b]said, it is impossible to prove a negative.

The point is, the more our knowledge grows, the more the space of the devine shrinks. With our current knowledge, the only logical God there is, is a deistic God, a [b]first mover that started our universe. Either that or he's doing an incredible job to hide his tracks

goodguy:

P.S. I really don't blame wesley for opposing these stuffs because she once said that she doesn't believe in God.

you better not

Y'all are still on this topic?

Scorpio:

Y'all are still on this topic?

Still waiting for proof

Honestly, I very much enjoyed our discussions here. Maybe we should start talking about the negative impact of a belief in witchcraft on Nigerian society?

You already know my take on your proof thingy, all this discussions and arguments still won't change the views of about 80% of nigerians out there, but i'm loving it so far 

Scorpio:

You already know my take on your proof thingy, all this discussions and arguments still won't change the views of about 80% of nigerians out there, but i'm loving it so far

Well, at least there's no burning at the stake involved. I only hope few people will act upon their beliefs.
I'm interested though at the witchcraft taking place at the Oba's palace. What's that all about? My wife told me that you can only visit some area's there and if you go somewhere you're not supposed to go, you just disappear

True dat, i have only been in once durin a festival[ can't remember if it was d Igwe one or so], i was so scared, i kept holdin on to my friend. There's like a lot of stories about that palace but only the members of the royal family will know, but if there's one thing i know, the Oba is still involved in them rituals. dat's for damn sure.

yeah they are. there used to be one around my school from when i was 9 and during that time of the year, we were dismissed earlier than usual and my dad couldn't be out after 10pm because they just cut off your head when they see you and use it for rituals for the king.
it's stupid!

seriously people, if americans started telling you that you shouldn't go out at night because the boogyman will kill you. . would you believe them? No. You'd say the american has been watching too many movies. I think Nigerians tend to see movies as an accurate portrayl of real life.

Ka:

Absolutely... of course I'm assuming. The thing is, you can prove the existence of a thing (if the thing is properly defined), but you can never prove the non-existence of a thing. Think about it - how would prove conclusively that something doesn't exist?

you can prove that something does not exist if you know  how to use its detector, e.g to know if oxygen exist u burn  a stick in a close jar if it burns then oxygen exist but if otherwise the its oxygen negative

@WesleyanA
@nferyn : God exist or not, i said that you meet a house empty doesn't mean it has no builder, a pot by the sea doesn't mean it has no owner?
the world was created By God and we must give Him his dues
this is one experiment for u
get a complet Bible (old and new testaments. divide the bible in to two equal parts and and get a lager key that can be handled by two fingers e.g that in lock key of 1980s now tie it in the middle of the bible, with red or black tread make sure it is firm.( the key should have it tail well in the bible while the head can be hold by two fingers of two people sitting opposite. if someone did somethin and deny it we use this method to find the person out. by holding the key with the index fingers of the holders then begin to call the names of the suspects e.g If it Mr A took this money bible turn forward, hallelujah turn, hallelujah turn, hallelujah turn, and if it turn ask it to turn back, try out one by one all the names of the suspects and see for yourself. In fact do this and ask if God exist turn and see the result then use any other book and see if u will see it turn,

now we will know if it is a trick or for real from u guys do it and let us know

buhahahahshsjfggfaysdgahaga

you're hilarious.

pls. make sure the bible never fall while you suspend it with the fingers gentle while you are at it.( if Gens to Rev = 200pages divid by 2 = 100 thas where the key should be tied. for get about the preface and stat at Gen to count to Rev. forget the index pages too they are not part of the holy words.)
ask it to turn back or forward when it is about to fall and guide it under with your hand so that it does not get on the floor pls. pray for truth before and and forgiveness after the execise Good luck

like Neman fall into the river of Jordan with doubt yet seventh time to see the prove of God of Israel pls try it too. it cost you nothing but reward you with Knowledge of God.

holyghost:

you can prove that something does not exist if you know how to use its detector, e.g to know if oxygen exist u burn a stick in a close jar if it burns then oxygen exist but if otherwise the its oxygen negative

@WesleyanA
@nferyn : God exist or not, i said that you meet a house empty doesn't mean it has no builder, a pot by the sea doesn't mean it has no owner?
the world was created By God and we must give Him his dues
this is one experiment for u
get a complet Bible (old and new testaments. divide the bible in to two equal parts and and get a lager key that can be handled by two fingers e.g that in lock key of 1980s now tie it in the middle of the bible, with red or black tread make sure it is firm.( the key should have it tail well in the bible while the head can be hold by two fingers of two people sitting opposite. if someone did somethin and deny it we use this method to find the person out. by holding the key with the index fingers of the holders then begin to call the names of the suspects e.g If it Mr A took this money bible turn forward, hallelujah turn, hallelujah turn, hallelujah turn, and if it turn ask it to turn back, try out one by one all the names of the suspects and see for yourself. In fact do this and ask if God exist turn and see the result then use any other book and see if u will see it turn,

now we will know if it is a trick or for real from u guys do it and let us know

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here. Can you break it down in understandable chunks? This is chinese to me - and no, I don't speak chinese

HolyGhost: you can prove that something does not exist if you know how to use its detector, e.g to know if oxygen exist u burn a stick in a close jar if it burns then oxygen exist but if otherwise the its oxygen negative

The thing is, there aren't any such detectors that can conclusively prove that something does or doesn't exist.

To use your example of oxygen in a jar: what if the jar has 99.99% nitrogen and 0.01% oxygen? Then the stick won't burn, and you (erroneously) conclude that there is no oxygen in the jar.

All I know is Witchcraft exists though I don't believe in it.

Capische?

goodguy:

All I know is Witchcraft exists though I don't believe in it.

Capische?

No, I don't understand. You don't believe in something that you know to exist
This statement is illogical

His statement is logical.
Witchcraft is an act. He knows the act exist. But he doesnt believe in joining them. He cant put his faith in such acts. Thats why he doesnt believe in it. Same for me.

layi:

His statement is logical.
Witchcraft is an act. He knows the act exist. But he doesnt believe in joining them. He can't put his faith in such acts. Thats why he doesnt believe in it. Same for me.

If you explain it that way, you're right. That's not what he wrote, though. I don't see any indication that describes witchcraft as only an act.

Now back on topic. Suppose I perform some sort of witchcrafty ritual (an act) and you don't believe in joining me, you don't want to have anything to do with it, you don't believe in it because you know it's bullshit. If that's the position, then OK, I can definitely live with that., but that has not been the position that was defended here;

The problem starts when people believe that those witches actually have supernatural powers, that they can cast spells and the like.

Hmm, well in case I have not made my stance perfectly clear:

I do not believe that people have supernatural powers.

Lol. My dear...u've got supernatural powers in u. Its just latent cos of ur unbelief. U r a spirit that just lives in a body.
Ready proofs are available.. Just just the ECKs and see wonder.

i'm afraid I'm a little confused with your post. What is ECKS?

i believe there's such thing as witchcraft too but it's fake and doesn't really work
just as there are voodoo men/women who just take money from people.