OLAADEGBU:


Surely the legalistic and public display of "obedience" to the law is condemned by Jesus. He rebuked these same men for their desire to show their spirituality. "Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men" (Matthew 6:2). But Jesus also said in our text that they "ought . . . to have done" the tithing of their wealth.

ttalks:

Olaadegbu, the verses u put for Christians does not talk about tithes. Please stop lying to prove your points. We've been through this countless number of times

OLAADEGBU:


There is no where in the Bible that mentions a substitute programme for tithing in the New Testament.

OLAADEGBU:

This particular "woe" among the eight in Matthew 23 is often only partially proclaimed.  Usually, sermons are delivered about the "judgment, mercy, and faith" that are indeed the "weightier matters of the law"--but Christ’s somewhat offhand remark on the responsibility to tithe is either ignored or downplayed.

Surely the legalistic and public display of "obedience" to the law is condemned by Jesus.  He rebuked these same men for their desire to show their spirituality.  "Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men" (Matthew 6:2).  But Jesus also said in our text that they "ought . . . to have done" the tithing of their wealth.

The condemnation is that this kind of hypocrite seeks only his name in a bulletin, or a plaque on a wall, or a brick in a walkway, or a wing in a hospital or museum, and is indifferent to the quiet, background work of ministry that doles out judgment, mercy, and faith.

Jesus measures "weightier matters" this way: "I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: unclothed, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me" (Matthew 25:35-36).  "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me" (Matthew 25:40).

If we wish to honour and please our Lord, He expects us to do both: faithful tithes and offerings, and judgment, mercy, and faith. HMM III

Judaism and Christianity

Traditional Jewish law and practice has included various forms of tithing since ancient times. Universally, Orthodox Jews practice ma'aser kesafim (tithing 10% of their income to charity) and take challah. In modern Israel, Jews continue to follow the laws of agricultural tithing, e.g., terumah, ma'aser rishon, terumat ma'aser, and ma'aser sheni. In Christianity, some interpretations of Biblical teachings conclude that although tithing was practiced extensively in the Old Testament, it was never practiced or taught within the first-century Church. Instead the New Testament scriptures are seen as teaching the concept of "freewill offerings" as a means of supporting the church: 1 Corinthians 16:2, 2 Corinthians 9:7. Also, some of the earliest groups sold everything they had and held the proceeds in common to be used for the furtherance of the Gospel: Acts 2:44-47, Acts 4:34-35. Further, Acts 5:1-20 contains the account of a man and wife who were living in one of these groups. They sold a piece of property and donated only part of the selling price to the church but claimed to have given the whole amount and immediately 'fell down and died' when confronted by the apostle Peter over their dishonesty.

Tithes were mentioned in councils at Tours in 567 and at Mâcon in 585. They were formally recognized under Pope Adrian I in 787.

Hebrew is a Semitic language, related to Akkadian, the lingua franca of that time. An Akkadian noun that Abraham was most likely familiar with given his Babylonian background was esretu, meaning "one-tenth". By the time of Abraham, this phrase was used to refer to the "one-tenth tax," or "tithe". Listed below are some specific instances of the Mesopotamian tithe, taken from The Assyrian Dictionary of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, Vol. 4 "E":

[Referring to a ten per cent tax levied on garments by the local ruler:] "the palace has taken eight garments as your tithe (on 85 garments)"

"…eleven garments as tithe (on 112 garments)"
", (the sun-god) Shamash demands the tithe, ."

"four minas of silver, the tithe of [the gods] Bel, Nabu, and Nergal, "

", he has paid, in addition to the tithe for Ninurta, the tax of the gardiner"

", the tithe of the chief accountant, he has delivered it to [the sun-god] Shamash"

", why do you not pay the tithe to the Lady-of-Uruk?"

", (a man) owes barley and dates as balance of the tithe of the **years three and four"

", the tithe of the king on barley of the town, "

", with regard to the elders of the city whom (the king) has **summoned to (pay) tithe, "

", the collector of the tithe of the country Sumundar, "

", (the official Ebabbar in Sippar) who is in charge of the tithe, "

Because of this standard one-tenth tax in Babylon, Abraham of the Genesis account was most likely familiar with the concept of giving up ten-percent of goods as tax

Ovamboland:

See below wikipedia's position on tithing practice

there it is, tithing was not a recognised practice in Christianity until AD787 , about 700 years after the last Apostle must have died, sorry all those seeing revelation and receiving word of knowlrdge on the necessity to tithe.

From the bold above many gods have also demanded tithes of the people, what a class to place the God of gods, old habits die hard, no wonder Hebrews 7 described tithing as a useless practice, even pagans do it to their gods

jice:

The kingdom of God is a Kingdom of faith for the faithful.
Though you are allowed to do anything or say anything and seem to go scot free, remember that the Bible did not miss a word when it said And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life. Rev 22v19

Even when Jesus decried the religion of the Pharisees whom He called hypocrites, He never told them that their religious activities concerning tithing is wrong. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law ,judgement, mercy and faith matt 23:23.

Let the advocates of one-time tithe make sure they are faithful to give all else they will offend in that and[b] let the lovers of the poor who probably haven’t given .001%[/b] of their earnings to the poor continue to love themselves in disguise for God is watching us.

If the bible our belief in tithe is true, we have a gain and if it is wrong to pay tithes we have no cause to complain because the faithful know that God blesses the giver as no way you sow without reaping.

Call me a Jew Man because I pay tithes and I will prove to you that Jesus my Lord is still the KING OF THE JEWS

Bless you all on this thread.

Somebody shout Halleluiah!

OLAADEGBU:

"Will a man rob God?  Yet you have robbed me.  But you say, How have we robbed you?  In tithes and offerings" -- Malachi 3:8

Here we see that tithes and offering belong to God by virtue of covenant agreements with man.  When we use what rightly belongs to God for personal gain is becomes robbery.

Can we also see how we rob God of tithes and offerings?  This verse is not only applicable to Israel but is also applicable to all nations both in the New and Old Testaments, for God is not a respecter of persons.

As we have pointed out earlier, the paying of tithes was practiced before the Law (Genesis 14:20-;28:22).  It was also commanded under grace in the New Testament (See Matthew 23:23; Romans 2:22 that we should not commit sacrilege, if you are not sure of the meaning find out; 1 Corinthians 9:7-14; Galatians 6:6 Paul here explains why tithes and offering should be paid; 1 Cor. 16:2; and Hebrews 7:1-10).

It often amazes me that folks agree that offerings can be given today but not tithes especially when God says tithes and offering belong to Him.   Where is it written or implied that tithes and not offerings are now abolished? 

OLAADEGBU:

Seedtime and harvest. Gen.8:22

ogajim:

2 Cor. 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Gen 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seed-time and harvest, etc. - There is something very expressive in the original, עד כל ימי הארץ od col yemey haarets, until all the Days of the earth; for God does not reckon its duration by centuries, and the words themselves afford a strong presumption that the earth shall not have an endless duration.
Seed-time and harvest - It is very probable that the seasons, which were distinctly marked immediately after the deluge, are mentioned in this place; but it is difficult to ascertain them. Most European nations divide the year into four distinct parts, called quarters or seasons; but there are six divisions in the text, and probably all intended to describe the seasons in one of these postdiluvian years, particularly in that part of the globe, Armenia, where Noah was when God gave him, and mankind through him, this gracious promise. From the Targum of Jonathan on this verse we learn that in Palestine their seed-time was in September, at the autumnal equinox; their harvest in March, at the vernal equinox; that their winter began in December, at the solstice; and their summer at the solstice in June.
The Copts begin their autumn on the 15th of September, and extend it to the 15th of December. Their winter on the 15th of December, and extend it to the 15th of March. Their spring on the 15th of March, and extend it to the 15th of June. Their summer on the 15th of June, and extend it to the 15th of September, assigning to each season three complete months.
There are certainly regions of the earth to which neither this nor our own mode of division can apply: there are some where summer and winter appear to divide the whole year, and others where, besides summer, winter, autumn, and spring, there are distinct seasons that may be denominated the hot season, the cold season, the rainy season, etc., etc.
This is a very merciful promise to the inhabitants of the earth. There may be a variety in the seasons, but no season essentially necessary to vegetation shall utterly fail. The times which are of greatest consequence to the preservation of man are distinctly noted; there shall be both seed-time and harvest - a proper time to deposit the different grain in the earth, and a proper time to reap the produce of this seed.

ogajim:


Your cartoon must be from a tithe-friendly site  , see below and tell me where it said 10%


2 Cor. 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

aletheia:

1. As he purposeth in his heart sure doesn't sound like  a fixed ten percent "tithe".
2. Neither grudgingly or of necessity
3. And the word translated "or of necessity" is given in Thayer's Greek Definitions as:
G318 ἀναγκή (anagkē)
1) necessity, imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one’s advantage, custom, argument
2) calamity, distress, straits
The law of tithing as preached today is an imposition not supported by scripture. Most who tithe do so out of fear not love.
And Mr Olaadegbu seems to have returned to the "seedtime and harvest" argument, so like Bereans we will examine the scripture to see if it means what he says it means.
Gen 8:22  While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Nope, not a mention of tithes but God's promise just after the Flood, that the seasons and cycles of the earth will not cease. Interesting that your exegesis doesn't mention cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night.

27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch. 28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. 29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea: 30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you: 2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many. 3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready: 4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting. 5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God. 12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; 13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men; 14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.

Zikkyy:

I think Olaadegbu is a robot. His responses are based on pre-program answers. His developers (MOGs ) obviously did not anticipate the kind of comments/views being expressed by most posters on this thread. I believe he needs an upgrade.

Tonye-t:



1. I asked them if tithing was a law, no one could answer me

Tonye-t:

2. I asked again what they understood from the 23rd verse of Matthew 23, which said, practise mercy, practise faithfulness, practise justice and also do not neglect to practise tithing. And all they could say was that Christ made this statement while he was still in the law, and as such isnt useful since he died to abolish the law.h.mmm really

Tonye-t:

3. I asked them again, ok you said Christ abolished the law and so also abolished tithing. hmmm then prove it? and they formed dump

Tonye-t:

4. I asked them to show me where it was explicitly stated in the NT that tithing was abolished, not Law since none could prove it was a law, and all they could do was show me that law was abolished. The question is "Is tithing a law?"

Tonye-t:

5. I even showed them plainly with scriptures that the fulfilled law was only the law of Moses and not God's law. And all they could do was act as though they never saw the scriptural passages.

Tonye-t:

6. They said since we arent levites, we should not collect tithes, i asked them, ok, so since we arent Jews, we should not also give offerings.afterall it stated with them (Jews) And they called me Tonye-thief

Tonye-t:

7. I told them Abraham who had the first account of a tither in the biblos tithed to a Priest not to a widow, and they said i am a rogue, that they prefer tithing to the widows and orphans. ok lets see

Tonye-t:

8. I asked them to show me where it was justified to give once tithe to widows, afterall in the OT the tithes were given to the priests and levites who then distributed it to the people. They rather claimed they had right to do whatever with their moneys. ok

Tonye-t:

9. The most pitiful, was their claim that tithing was simply a voluntary act thus a freewill offering, i said ok, wont it be better you show me where it was explicitly stated that tithing meant the same thing as freewill offering. simply show us passages and stop calling names like thief, heretic, rogue, scammer. A matured christain will rather show clear passages from the biblos and shun critics.

Tonye-t:

10. They said since Paul never taught it, meant it wasnt useful. i showed them NT passages of Paul which butresses the Ancestral custom.

Tonye-t:

11. The most appauling was that they said tithing doesnt guarantee once blessings, i said hmmm interesting claim. prove it at least i have done mine severally.

Tonye-t:

God help NL xtians including me in Jesus name. Amen!

Joagbaje:

Tithing is not a law matter. It is our worship to God. Jesus fulfiled the law of Moses because they pointed to christ. thereby indirectly abolish the law. But tithe was not a shadow of messiah. So law or no law , our devotion to God continues.
If you don't believe in tithing it's ok. But the insults and name callings are against scriptures . Those who believe in tithing have their biblical reason. Don't call it a scam. Don't call pastors crook. There are several things we may not agree in the bible. It is a sign of immaturity to attack spiritual leaders to proove your points.

in pauls day there are several things they didn't agree. Paul had a different message of liberty. While James , peter believed in works and circumcicion etc. You won't find Paul attacking them on their belief.Calling James juju man and peter Ogboni . At the Jerusalem council he had opportunity to lambast everybody. He only presented his doctrine to them and left. But he had to rebuke peter when peter for hypocricy when they came to his church and tried to impose bondage over them because he has responsibility to protect his sheep.

Going after another mans sheep to polute them is unscripural. More so when you're wrong. Even if you're right. Go and win souls preach the gospel. We have over a thousand issues that we may not agree on now. but one day " We will come in the unity of the faith"

Joagbaje:

Going after another mans sheep to polute them is unscripural.

Joh 10:1-16
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Tonye-t:

6. They said since we arent levites, we should not collect tithes, i asked them, ok, so since we arent Jews, we should not also give offerings.afterall it stated with them (Jews) And they called me[b] Tonye-thief[/b]

Tonye-t:

8. I asked them to show me where it was justified to give once tithe to widows, afterall in the OT the tithes were given to the priests and levites who then distributed it to the people. They rather claimed they had right to do whatever with their moneys. ok

aletheia:

but come to think about it, you may be right about other men's sheep, just not the sheep of Christ.

Zikkyy:

Now you talking. I agree with Mr Joagbaje here. The pastor is the shepherd and the ignorant and gullible members of his church are the sheep cos they are constantly being fleeced