Image123:


After you. Show me a star being born and a star dying, its composition, constituents and how you know. There's hell, now you know.

Saw what you did there.
We all know hell aint real.

HardMirror:

Saw what you did there.
We all know hell aint real.

It seems you are very bored today. Who are "we", are they many inside you?
i talk am say research BELIEVE that the sun will die by faith basically. Christians also BELIEVE that the sun will die, their belief is on the bible though. They are both using faith.

Image123:


After you. Show me a star being born and a star dying, its composition, constituents and how you know. There's hell, now you know.

To see a star, simply look up anytime during the day. It rises in the east in the morning and set in the west in the evening. Now, show me your hell. Where can I find it.

If you want to look for stars in the formation or birthing state get a small telescope and look for the Orion Nebulae.
http://earthsky.org/space/orion-nebula-jewel-in-orions-sword

Now tell us how and where we can locate your hell.
See pics below

wirinet:


To see a star, simply look up anytime during the day. It rises in the east in the morning and set in the west in the evening. Now, show me your hell. Where can I find it.

If you want to look for stars in the formation or birthing state get a small telescope and look for the Orion Nebulae.
http://earthsky.org/space/orion-nebula-jewel-in-orions-sword

Now tell us how and where we can locate your hell.
See pics below

Oh that? i said YOU should show me a star being born and a star dying. At least you believe they do. If i tell you to go and look for hell and put a link like a bible link for instance, that will be what you just did.

A star dies in a nova or supernova. That is when the star finish burning its hydrogen and helium and burn other elements on the periodic table, until it gets to iron. Since it cannot burn iron, it explodes and spew its outer layers into the universe, to be used to birth other stars.
See the Youtube video below to see how a star dies;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIdJtIDReM8

I still ask, show me your hell.

Image123:


Oh that? i said YOU should show me a star being born and a star dying. At least you believe they do. If i tell you to go and look for hell and put a link like a bible link for instance, that will be what you just did.

So you are telling us that your hell only exists in a book? No physical location or what it is made of?

wirinet:


So you are telling us that your hell only exists in a book? No physical location or what it is made of?

No, i'm telling you to show me a star being born or a star dying. Is there something wrong with pointing you to a book, that seems to be what you are doing?

HardMirror my question is did you receive any word of knowledge after you prayed for the "dumb boy" ?

Can You Give me the Name and Address of your former church and one elder their, so I can verify you claim

What is the size of the last offering you collect?

HardMirror:
Simple.
Don't ask for my Name cos I am not ready to reveal my identity. Yes I am afraid of people than I am afraid of an imaginary God. I know how Nigerians hate atheists, not ready to be lynched.

Any other questions are welcomed

1. Pls can I have a response to this post belowbelow and
2. What's your thoughts on the Christian theory of "Cessationism"?

#AnalysingPentecostalism 22 (see other series 1-21 on Facebook)

Rising Atheism

by Deji Yesufu

More and more young people are ditching religion altogether and increasingly resorting to atheism. This reality was brought home to me some two years ago when atheists almost overran the religion section of Nairaland. They began to even ask for their own section – claiming a new type of religion. The anonymous nature of the forum afforded them the liberty to express their thoughts. Seun Osewa, the owner of the forum, himself had renounced Christianity and the thread were he told his story was a bestseller of some sort.

While many people vilify atheism in our nation, one must appreciate the fact that it takes a great deal to be one and those who profess atheism are about the soundest and most rational human beings. Man is by default religious. To throw away that default position requires a great deal of study and boldness. In the long run, atheism is another religion – a religion without a god. One of the greatest books in my library is “Loosing the Bonds” by Andrew Kirk. It is a book dedicated to studying different religions. He dedicates some chapters to atheism.

Kirk discusses three men that changed the face of modern sociology. They are Karl Marx, Frederich Nitchzhe and Sigmund Freud. Marx gave us Socialism and Communism. Nitchzhe suggested that “God is dead”. He invented the “Superman” and his thoughts brought about fascism. Freud developed modern psychiatry. All of them great men but all of them avowed atheists. Kirk argued in his book that there was a great deal Christians could learn from atheists’ criticism of religion and if Christians will do this, they will be the better for it.

It is my humble submission in view of all these that Pentecostalism is adding to rising atheism in the land. While it may not be the primary cause, it is a major contributing factor. Why? Pentecostalism is anti intellectual. It is highly subjective and very non rational. It thrives on a belief in miracles in a world of science and technology. Pentecostalism just does not fit the aggressive and progressive mind of Nigerian youths and thus it is increasingly thrown into the dustbin. This might have been my fate had I not possessed something in my knowledge of God beyond bland subjectivity.

This leads me to why true Christianity ought to appeal to an atheist. The true Christian religion is founded on sound knowledge. The Christian faith is possessed of true understanding of God before any subjective experience of God. With the coming of the 16th century Reformation, Christianity took on a new knowledge base. Even Roman Catholic scholasticism came to life. The Protestant religion brought light to Europe; it opened the search for knowledge in science and birth the industrial revolution of the 19th century that gave us modern science. Therefore the true Christian faith shares a great deal with atheists and if they will listen to the gospel, they will end up by far greater Christian scholars than many. Case in point: C. S. Lewis.

The man who gave us Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, is a raving atheist. But all of us religious people use his invention to promote our views. In my first interview with Edmund Obilo, he confessed on live Radio that he cannot remember when last he was in church. There is no better broadcaster than him in Ibadan. I remember approaching some senior citizens to invite them to attend my fellowship. They told me that religion sets people back. It deters their thinking. It doesn’t promote intellectualism. I just sat there watching.

You cannot sell signs, wonders and miracles to 21st century thinkers – it is just simply out of date. And my findings shows that even the God of the Bible has outdated miracles. Instead he has blessed man with such resounding knowledge that if my generation will spend less time at Redeem Camp and other prayer camps, we will find the cure to AIDS, Cancer and other debilitating diseases of our time. While at the same time adding to the science revolution and increase our nation’s gross productivity. Thereby creating jobs and wealth for the people. This is the type of work the gospel encourages; work that produces better feeding! He that will not work cannot eat!! Let us wake up. The atheists are challenging us.

I am not promoting atheism here. I am simply saying that Pentecostalism and many other religion that thrive on the subjective are adding nothing to science and modern thinkers have no time for such nonsense. I am also saying that the true Christian faith is highly intellectual. It appeals to the mind as it convinces the sinner of a need for a Savior.

The born again person however does not then sell his brain to the church, rather he becomes a thinker. Whether he is a theologian, a scientist, a technologist, a broadcaster, a writer, or even a politician, he brings in a finesse of knowledge into his profession that adds to it. Christians are already disciplined individuals and thus can use their time for productive ventures. This is the reason why early scientists were mostly Christians.

There is increasing atheism in the land and I hereby present the gospel to these folks as a sound alternative to the mere religion they are raging against.

CC: TheSixthSense, HardMirror,

Please do you mind answering my own earlier asked question in the post above?

HardMirror:

I hope flesh and blood did not reveal that to you.

By the way I don't even care. God is not real to me anymore so you are free to say what you like, makes no difference to me.

God is not real to you anymore "meaning he was real to you before"..how is that possible if he never seem to exist to you..

Secondly i am still trying to understand the part you said "The Holy Spirit " revealed things you...how is that even possible when you say "God dosent exist"..

Or is the Holy Spirit a seperate entity to you?
If you think he is, then i guess he is now an "ATHETIST" like you... I guess he should be since he used to speak to you... OR DOES SOMEONE THAT USED SPEAKS TO YOU DONT EXIST AGAIN? Even with science that can be logical

I read story from beginning to the end... And i was dissapointed in the reasons you choose to reject GOD you claim to love once watery...

Yes You were an evangelist
God used you to perform miracles..

But you forgot somethings about the bible you once believed...

Jesus said many will say " they performed miracles in MY NAME, healed the sick"like you did", casted out demons "like you did"...
But since they only used his name and didnt know the spirit behind him..

Although they were Christians"like you were"he would deny them

THE FACT IS..

You know there is God. Cos you once believed so.. But you have successfully chosen the to blindfold the part of Your soul that knows that God exist...
So you are on an adventure to see how the other side "atheism and antichrist" feels.. And i guess you are enjoying it... I pray eternity dosent catch up with you there..


Finally i dont see the essence of the noise of a former pastor or an evangelist now being an atheist... Cos the word said even the elite like you will be deceived in this days...

And have you forgotten that your father "Satan" was once an arch angel...

So If Satan"a former arch angel "can fall and become "Anti God and anti Christ" WHO ARE YOU?
WHO AM I?

God forbid i become an atheist tomorrow(nothing is impossible "It will never be because i think God dosent exist (I can bet my life and eternity he does" or the word of God is False..
It will only be because i have chosen to become a Foool.(fooolishness is a choice ) .. And remember only a Foool will say that there is no God especially one that have used his name to perform miracles and wonders..

HardMirror:
Don't derail this thread if you don't want to be banned!

Let us stick to the topic.

Ask me any questions and I will answer. This is not a thread for insults. Be warned

I couldn't locate the quote you stated the reason for your conversion? Why did you convert?

blueto:

Misunderstanding, I didn't allude that it was capable of mortifying him. My point was that the pains subsided after God's intervention. Or what else do you think acted as the cold gentle breeze that deracinated the pain?.

Please stop all these prevarications, I don't want to believe you are a sophist.

Oh please I don't buy this. It is highly possible that the snake spit was not poisonous enough and not the singing your father did. Your dad was fortunate and I am happy he is

Image123:


No, i'm telling you to show me a star being born or a star dying. Is there something wrong with pointing you to a book, that seems to be what you are doing?

For Pete sake this is well documented - google and you will get the answer

hopefulLandlord:


Theists don't live and learn, they live and believe

Not all theists bro... Irreligious theists learn very well as much as any other freethinker

tempem:

This is his point, if there is no God, what's the purpose of being on earth?

Lemme play the devil's advocate here.

Actually, most of us find our purpose on earth without putting God into consideration. We are born, we learn, we grow up, we become a part of a system and we leave legacies behind. The fact is that most of us only remember God on worship days, when we are going through difficult periods and close to the end of our lives. Show of hands, how many people wake up each day with the thought; "i'm going to live today for God and do his will". Most of us wake up thinking "hustle and how to get to the next level". Society and civilization have been structured in a way that we figure out our place in it and our intended destination without any express revelation from God. You find out that the most hopeless people are those who have lost hope in their place and future in society as against their hope in God.

RosaConsidine:


Lemme play the devil's advocate here.

Actually, most of us find our purpose on earth without putting God into consideration. We are born, we learn, we grow up, we become a part of a system and we leave legacies behind. The fact is that most of us only remember God on worship days, when we are going through difficult periods and close to the end of our lives. Show of hands, how many people wake up each day with the thought; "i'm going to live today for God and do his will". Most of us wake up thinking "hustle and how to get to the next level". Society and civilization have been structured in a way that we figure out our place in it and our intended destination without any express revelation from God. You find out that the most hopeless people are those who have lost hope in their place and future in society as against their hope in God.

lol.. thanks you tried... but that not exactly my point.....

I meant "why are humans on earth"? I think you've gotten a better clue.

Hello Maazi HardMirror.

Very excellent decision you have made, if only God did not truly exist. Now I am not going to start quoting scripture for you, I hate doing that shit, it destroys objective reasoning. I am only going to tell you a bit of my own experience too.

I was born into a Muslim Family. I didnt finish secondary school before starting to doubt Islam, by my second year in the University, I had left Islam for good. It just did not make any sense to me.

Now, I dont just take decisions, I take informed decisions. I was a scholar then, I had covered both the Sunni and Shia sects of Islamic Knowledge and Jurispudence, I even studied the Intricacies of Sufism for a while, Could read the quran in my sleep, studied all the accepted hadiths, read the riyadul soliheen, bulugl malram, fiqhu sunnah and other classical Islamic texts...etc.

What I discovered was that it was a whole bunch of nonsense, the Ifa Corpus, if written down, makes more sense than the whole field of Islamic knowledge and Injunctions.

So what did I do?

I left Islam. for What?

For no Religion.

All this time that I was a Muslim, I also studied the bible, I not only studied the Bible, I studied the history of the present Bible we have, which most people dont know is a collection edited from collections of other Christian texts by the Catholic church. I have been studying the bible from my primary school days, back then, I always had the highest scores in CRK, in the whole school. It was my best subject, I saw it as a collection of very interesting stories , nothing more.

I understand all the idiosyncrasies of the Bible, the Contradictions, The differences between the Old testament Jehovah and the New Testament Jehovah, the Blood Filled pages of the bible, the genocides, the patricides, the massacres...etc.

It got to a stage that there is nothing any pastor can tell me in the bible that I cannot counter. I used to have a lot of fun atthe expense of Jehovah's witnesess, who I will deliberate lure into Biblical Arguments I know they cannot win logically.

An Example, If God is omniscient, and omnimerciful, That means he know Adm will eat the apple before he even created him, if he knew he will eat the apple, that means it was all part of his plan, if it was part of his plan, that means it was unfair to punish Adam for eating the apple, can we now say he is unfair, if he is unfair, that means he is not a merciful God, If you insist he his a merciful God, that means, he doesnt know Adam will eat the apple, if he doesnt know, then that means he is not ominiscient, if he is not omniscient, that means he is not God, which means he also has a creator blah blah.....

I tell you, the kind of logical fallacies I show to preaching pastors from the Bible was so much that I started pitying them whenever they make the mistake of trying to preach at me.

So you see, I was very deep in Logic and Philosophy. Objective reasoning was my thing, and i also have a pet peeve with the arrogance of chrisian preachers who do not even know anything about my ''religion'' before concluding that it is wrong. To preach to someone, you have to understand that person's point of view, you need to have an open mind, you need to know that you do not neccessarily have all the answers.

Also, some christians were so idiotic that they were actually very militant about Christianity. these are the ones you will see going indide mosques to preach to muslims, you will see them go to shrines to destroy Idols, they just go up and down exhibiting their ignorance for all the world to see.

At the same time as I was doing a ll this, I was also exploring the Ifa corpus, reading up, asking questions( that is a story for another day) I studied the intricacies of Yoruba mystical knowledge, I could tell you the differences between, aasan, ofo, ogede, ayajo etc. This esoteric forms of knowledge is steeped in serious mystery and very very deep.

I have always been a fan of knowledge, any knowledge, I listen to every form and kind of music, from Yoruba apala, to Igbo ohafia war dance chants to classical music. I watch all sorts of things, and I consume every piece of knowledge I come across. This has given me the ability to be open minded, and objective. I could read something, analyse something, understand the reasoning behind something, even consider something , without accepting it.

I read all the great philosophers, from plato to betrand russel, to kant to thomas paine, etc. I always read things from two points of view, the protagonist and the antagonist.

So , in a way, you can say I was worldly wise.

I have also studied the bhagavad gita, the Tao, the analects of confucius, the egyptian book of the dead, several books of the apocryphal bible collections, and other books too esoteric to mention.

So, listen carefully to what I am going to write next.

I am not going to commit the fallacy of appealing to my ''superior'' knowledge to make you change your view.

Nor will I even attempt to convince you on the ''error'' of your way. The only thing I will ask for from you is that you have an open mind.

See,

Nobody can prove God exists. its just impossible.

But it is also impossible to prove God doesnt exist.

Inspite of all my explorations, I have stumbled on one simple fact, and that fact is that God exists. I do not claim to understand the ways of this God, nor do I claim to know the character of this entity.

How did I happen upon this fact?

I reasoned. Objectively.

If I cannot prove something doesnt exist, that means it will be fallacious of me to say It doesnt exist, the best thing I could be is be agnostic. Atheism is pure ignorance, because the way it cannot be proved that God exists, is also the way it cannot be conclusivelly proved that he doesnt exist.

I have not seen any proof that anybody besides me dream. but does this mean that people do not dream?

At the end of the day, logically speaking, the best thing anyone can be is be agnostic, it is logically fallacious to be atheistic.

So what am I then, a Christian?, an Agnostic?,

To know God, is a personal journey of self discovery for everyone. there are many ways to the market, and while i do not accept most christian doctrines, I have come to accept christ Jesus as my lord and saviour.

Logic did not lead to accepting Jesus, in a million years, that will have been impossible for me. But there are spiritual things that are beyond the realm of logic, and based on the Spiritual reality of what I have seen, I know God exists, and I know Jesus is real. very real.

Yet, I do not believe God will throw people in hell, forever, he is not a wicked God, he is not built in the image of vendetta seeking humans, nor do I believe that Only Christians will enter paradise, God is not petty.

God will help you, and show you the way to him, be it via atheism, Christianity, or any other way he deems fit.

Just have an Open mind.

Thank you.

Brymo:
The heinousness of the "no God mentality", how would it help the plight of mankind ?

Just imagine if all the lands used as churches in Ogun state were to be converted to industries.

-Employment

-Less traffic (The roads leading to those churches are in chaos every sunday.

alpontif:
Hello Maazi HardMirror.

Very excellent decision you have made, if only God did not truly exist. Now I am not going to start quoting scripture for you, I hate doing that shit, it destroys objective reasoning. I am only going to tell you a bit of my own experience too.

I was born into a Muslim Family. I didnt finish secondary school before starting to doubt Islam, by my second year in the University, I had left Islam for good. It just did not make any sense to me.

Now, I dont just take decisions, I take informed decisions. I was a scholar then, I had covered both the Sunni and Shia sects of Islamic Knowledge and Jurispudence, I even studied the Intricacies of Sufism for a while, Could read the quran in my sleep, studied all the accepted hadiths, read the riyadul soliheen, bulugl malram, fiqhu sunnah and other classical Islamic texts...etc.

What I discovered was that it was a whole bunch of nonsense, the Ifa Corpus, if written down, makes more sense than the whole field of Islamic knowledge and Injunctions.

So what did I do?

I left Islam. for What?

For no Religion.

All this time that I was a Muslim, I also studied the bible, I not only studied the Bible, I studied the history of the present Bible we have, which most people dont know is a collection edited from collections of other Christian texts by the Catholic church. I have been studying the bible from my primary school days, back then, I always had the highest scores in CRK, in the whole school. It was my best subject, I saw it as a collection of very interesting stories , nothing more.

I understand all the idiosyncrasies of the Bible, the Contradictions, The differences between the Old testament Jehovah and the New Testament Jehovah, the Blood Filled pages of the bible, the genocides, the patricides, the massacres...etc.

It got to a stage that there is nothing any pastor can tell me in the bible that I cannot counter. I used to have a lot of fun atthe expense of Jehovah's witnesess, who I will deliberate lure into Biblical Arguments I know they cannot win logically.

An Example, If God is omniscient, and omnimerciful, That means he know Adm will eat the apple before he even created him, if he knew he will eat the apple, that means it was all part of his plan, if it was part of his plan, that means it was unfair to punish Adam for eating the apple, can we now say he is unfair, if he is unfair, that means he is not a merciful God, If you insist he his a merciful God, that means, he doesnt know Adam will eat the apple, if he doesnt know, then that means he is not ominiscient, if he is not omniscient, that means he is not God, which means he also has a creator blah blah.....

I tell you, the kind of logical fallacies I show to preaching pastors from the Bible was so much that I started pitying them whenever they make the mistake of trying to preach at me.

So you see, I was very deep in Logic and Philosophy. Objective reasoning was my thing, and i also have a pet peeve with the arrogance of chrisian preachers who do not even know anything about my ''religion'' before concluding that it is wrong. To preach to someone, you have to understand that person's point of view, you need to have an open mind, you need to know that you do not neccessarily have all the answers.

Also, some christians were so idiotic that they were actually very militant about Christianity. these are the ones you will see going indide mosques to preach to muslims, you will see them go to shrines to destroy Idols, they just go up and down exhibiting their ignorance for all the world to see.

At the same time as I was doing a ll this, I was also exploring the Ifa corpus, reading up, asking questions( that is a story for another day) I studied the intricacies of Yoruba mystical knowledge, I could tell you the differences between, aasan, ofo, ogede, ayajo etc. This esoteric forms of knowledge is steeped in serious mystery and very very deep.

I have always been a fan of knowledge, any knowledge, I listen to every form and kind of music, from Yoruba apala, to Igbo ohafia war dance chants to classical music. I watch all sorts of things, and I consume every piece of knowledge I come across. This has given me the ability to be open minded, and objective. I could read something, analyse something, understand the reasoning behind something, even consider something , without accepting it.

I read all the great philosophers, from plato to betrand russel, to kant to thomas paine, etc. I always read things from two points of view, the protagonist and the antagonist.

So , in a way, you can say I was worldly wise.

I have also studied the bhagavad gita, the Tao, the analects of confucius, the egyptian book of the dead, several books of the apocryphal bible collections, and other books too esoteric to mention.

So, listen carefully to what I am going to write next.

I am not going to commit the fallacy of appealing to my ''superior'' knowledge to make you change your view.

Nor will I even attempt to convince you on the ''error'' of your way. The only thing I will ask for from you is that you have an open mind.

See,

Nobody can prove God exists. its just impossible.

But it is also impossible to prove God doesnt exist.

Inspite of all my explorations, I have stumbled on one simple fact, and that fact is that God exists. I do not claim to understand the ways of this God, nor do I claim to know the character of this entity.

How did I happen upon this fact?

I reasoned. Objectively.

If I cannot prove something doesnt exist, that means it will be fallacious of me to say It doesnt exist, the best thing I could be is be agnostic. Atheism is pure ignorance, because the way it cannot be proved that God exists, is also the way it cannot be conclusivelly proved that he doesnt exist.

I have not seen any proof that anybody besides me dream. but does this mean that people do not dream?

At the end of the day, logically speaking, the best thing anyone can be is be agnostic, it is logically fallacious to be atheistic.

So what am I then, a Christian?, an Agnostic?,

To know God, is a personal journey of self discovery for everyone. there are many ways to the market, and while i do not accept most christian doctrines, I have come to accept christ Jesus as my lord and saviour.

Logic did not lead to accepting Jesus, in a million years, that will have been impossible for me. But there are spiritual things that are beyond the realm of logic, and based on the Spiritual reality of what I have seen, I know God exists, and I know Jesus is real. very real.

Yet, I do not believe God will throw people in hell, forever, he is not a wicked God, he is not built in the image of vendetta seeking humans, nor do I believe that Only Christians will enter paradise, God is not petty.

God will help you, and show you the way to him, be it via atheism, Christianity, or any other way he deems fit.

Just have an Open mind.
Thank you.

I so much share your thoughts especially with the "hell" part. Somethings are just not explainable but dont mean it doesn't exist. When I was a kid, I used to ask if Jesus truly luvs me, y did I av 2 suffer while growin up or reasons bad tins happen to really good people but @ d end, I guess it was all for a purpose. Well, who am I to question GOD,so I just do my bits on earth and hope for the best. The mistake most pple make is blievin pastors or preachers but av learnt the hard way that most of them jus rely on their knowledge or wat dey perceive to be right and try to align it with the bible 2 deceive pple but trust me, there is GOD who answers if u diligently seek him on ur own cos religion is personal.

well, am deist

I finally read through your story, interesting read. Anyway, my take is that you were a 'saved' born again christian and you were honest, more honest than many of the modern poster boys of pop christianity because many are atheists but are really hooked on making a good living off this thing. You could open a church and I can guarantee you would get a huge following. It's usually the sincere ones that develop a terrifying burden. For instance, look at annyplenty's posts of gloomy visions of doom and terror going on for years.

And it may become a great disappointment that would almost always rationally lead to unbelief if after a long time - for you, twenty years - a simple dose of history reveals what one might have understood to hold as core belief is simply untrue and a very recent invention. I kind of understand how it is when you say 'I couldn't sleep if I didn't go out to win souls' or perhaps can't imagine any of your loved ones burn in hell forever and this gives birth to a pseudomission to 'snatch people from hell' by being confrontational and arrogant about 'my' Jesus Christ even to good people who don't share your faith.

It is not far from truth like you said that sustained ignorance, narcissism, apathy towards others, and fear is what keeps people in this christianity because our christianity has become a 'me' thing. God has done so and so for me and my family, always me and mines, and this combined with apathy turns us into soulless beings that would prefer to walk past a hungry child on the street only to give tithes to a 'man of god' living in opulence. Why? because me/I don't want to miss my blessing. Another truth you mentioned is that Poverty is the real witchcraft and this is in line with what I read in a book that 'the greatest amount of good one can do for humanity is to become rich' One cannot do any good in a capitalist and even more in a dysfunctional society like ours without money.

That being said, I am certain, as much as you can try, you cannot feign ignorance of spiritual phenomena. You may say they are 'yet-to-be-explained-occurrences' but that doesn't disprove anything and some of these only respond to Jesus Christ. Atheism is a reactionary position of deliberately sustaining ignorance towards knowledge of the preternatural and it is the most naive perspective with which anyone can view the world. The trending atheism is hiding behind science holding on to scientific theories and discoveries as antagonistic to religious beliefs or the divine but science itself doesn't speak, only scientists do. Agnosticism is a reasonable position for sceptics.

Your perception of the christian God is the angry god of Calvinism who sacrificed his son to save the world from his wrath and himself. Also has much to do with understanding of salvation, probably why you asked and found questions that didn't add up and as soon as you lost fear it was over. Pentecostalism didn't help with answers either and is no place for intellectual curiosity - as soon as anyone starts looking, they find atheism if they don't look past the 16th century reformation. Anyway, I wish you the best. Try not to be insensitive to other peoples' beliefs and God. You should know better. I like the comment by the well-read ex-muslim guy above there is wisdom in it. There is truth in God and His Son, Jesus Christ only many times it is expressed humanly, but who can fully understand God?

Is Monsieur Hardmirror still taking questions because I have a couple.

TheSixthSense:
I finally read through your story, interesting read. Anyway, my take is that you were a 'saved' born again christian and you were honest, more honest than many of the modern poster boys of pop christianity because many are atheists but are really hooked on making a good living off this thing. You could open a church and I can guarantee you would get a huge following. It's usually the sincere ones that develop a terrifying burden. For instance, look at annyplenty's posts of gloomy visions of doom and terror going on for years.

And it may become a great disappointment that would almost always rationally lead to unbelief if after a long time - for you, twenty years - a simple dose of history reveals what one might have understood to hold as core belief is simply untrue and a very recent invention. I kind of understand how it is when you say 'I couldn't sleep if I didn't go out to win souls' or perhaps can't imagine any of your loved ones burn in hell forever and this gives birth to a pseudomission to 'snatch people from hell' by being confrontational and arrogant about 'my' Jesus Christ even to good people who don't share your faith.

It is not far from truth like you said that sustained ignorance, narcissism, apathy towards others, and fear is what keeps people in this christianity because our christianity has become a 'me' thing. God has done so and so for me and my family, always me and mines, and this combined with apathy turns us into soulless beings that would prefer to walk past a hungry child on the street only to give tithes to a 'man of god' living in opulence. Why? because me/I don't want to miss my blessing. Another truth you mentioned is that Poverty is the real witchcraft and this is in line with what I read in a book that 'the greatest amount of good one can do for humanity is to become rich' One cannot do any good in a capitalist and even more in a dysfunctional society like ours without money.

That being said, I am certain, as much as you can try, you cannot feign ignorance of spiritual phenomena. You may say they are 'yet-to-be-explained-occurrences' but that doesn't disprove anything and some of these only respond to Jesus Christ. Atheism is a reactionary position of deliberately sustaining ignorance towards knowledge of the preternatural and it is the most naive perspective with which anyone can view the world. The trending atheism is hiding behind science holding on to scientific theories and discoveries as antagonistic to religious beliefs or the divine but science itself doesn't speak, only scientists do. Agnosticism is a reasonable position for sceptics.

Your perception of the christian God is the angry god of Calvinism who sacrificed his son to save the world from his wrath and himself. Also has much to do with understanding of salvation, probably why you asked and found questions that didn't add up and as soon as you lost fear it was over. Pentecostalism didn't help with answers either and is no place for intellectual curiosity - as soon as anyone starts looking, they find atheism. Anyway, I wish you the best. Try not to be insensitive to other peoples' beliefs and God. You should know better. I like the comment by the well-read ex-muslim guy above there is wisdom in it. There is truth in God and His Son, Jesus Christ only many times it is expressed humanly, but who can fully understand God?

Is Monsieur Hardmirror still taking questions because I have a couple.

Pls ask sir

HardMirror:

Pls ask sir

1. Did you lose your 'word of knowledge' gift? If not, how would you explain it now, knowing what you know?

2. You mentioned talking with the Holy Spirit. Could you describe the experience? Was it the conversational type as in Benny Hinn's 'Good Morning Holy Spirit'? and do you still do it?

3. Still on communication with God...Did you ever hear an audible voice? Something like Moses and the burning bush. If so please describe.

4. What do you think about the demonic? From your deliverance encounter, I don't think those were demons. From the books I have read demons are wise and they speak. Real cases of exorcisms, although extremely rare, usually have demons that would call you by name and speak about things you alone know about.

5. What do you think about divine justice? What happens now after death?...Christians believe Jesus Christ will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

6. Finally, do you have any advice for new christians, non-christians and perhaps your friends you care about that are still christians?

Hope you didn't apostatise Jesus Christ because you were dismayed - who wouldn't - with the christianity you practiced when you found out there was nothing exclusive about it. I suggest you do some soul searching, give up atheism or anti-God or anti-christianity statements and be good to your neighbour and forgive us christians that may have misled you out of our own ignorance.

Do this and you will live (Luke 10:25-28)
...And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" So He answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself.'" And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

TheSixthSense:


1. Did you lose your 'word of knowledge' gift? If not, how would you explain it now, knowing what you know?

Yes I think I did to a large extent lose my word of knowledge ability.
Not been using it for many years now so I am not as sharp as I used to be then.

2. You mentioned talking with the Holy Spirit. Could you describe the experience? Was it the conversational type as in Benny Hinn's 'Good Morning Holy Spirit'? and do you still do it?

Yes, the conversations were pretty real like talking to a friend, a talk and response kind of communication. Could almost discuss anything.

3. Still on communication with God...Did you ever hear an audible voice? Something like Moses and the burning bush. If so please describe.

I did only twice, the rest were more a conversation within.
I had also seen things, seen spirits, demons etc with my very eyes especially during long fasts.

4. What do you think about the demonic? From your deliverance encounter, I don't think those were demons. From the books I have read demons are wise and they speak. Real cases of exorcisms, although extremely rare, usually have demons that would call you by name and speak about things you alone know about.

*smiles* there are lot of things I don't want to talk about. Demons are as real as you make them. Take note of deliverance pastors and priests; they don't go straight to deliverance, they "play" with the demons. Watch tb joshua for example, they converse with the demons, they try to talk as much as possible with the demons, they want the possessed to fall and shout and act out. I am not like that, I will deliver a possessed person immediately. I don't take pleasure in all the drama.
It is all psychological. Study more on hypnotism and you will understand what is going on between those pastors and the "possessed"

5. What do you think about divine justice? What happens now after death?...Christians believe Jesus Christ will come again with glory to judge the living and dead.

I don't know what happens after death, there are many conflicting theories to this.
Christians can believe whatever they want, so do other people and religions.

6. Finally, do you have any advice for new christians, non-christians and perhaps your friends you care about that are still christians?

They shld keep being christians if it makes them happy. Life is short they will all die pretty soon, so, they shld die happy. Not everyone is strong enough to discard the god concept.

Hope you didn't apostatise Jesus Christ because you were dismayed - who wouldn't - with the christianity you practiced when you found out there was nothing exclusive about it. I suggest you do some soul searching, give up atheism or anti-God or anti-christianity statements and be good to your neighbour. Forgive us christians that may have misled you out of our own ignorance.

Do this and you will live (Luke 10:25-28)
...And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?" So He answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbour as yourself.'" And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

I am happy as I am and I am absolutely sure christianity is man made and operates on a lot of psychological and sociological mechanisms.

Hmmmm sounds confusing, have so many questions but lost for the right words to use, but still i have a simple one.... Do you believe in the existence of kingdom of darkness? I can only say God doesn't exist if I am confused there's no kingdom of darkness. I believe it exists judging by its "ungodly or wicked" activities such as making human sacrifices in exchange of fame, wealth and the likes... I also believe there is always a right to every wrongs, I mean if kingdom of darkness exists which is definitely the wrong way, shouldn't there be also a right part to follow such as kingdom of light at least in the natural sense?

@hardmirror Sorry if this question might have been asked earlier here, couldn't read through everything.

Have you told anyone yet of your loss of faith? And if yes, how did you do it?

HardMirror:

Yes I think I did to a large extent lose my word of knowledge ability.
Not been using it for many years now so I am not as sharp as I used to be then.


Yes, the conversations were pretty real like talking to a friend, a talk and response kind of communication. Could almost discuss anything.


I did only twice, the rest were more a conversation within.
I had also seen things, seen spirits, demons etc with my very eyes especially during long fasts.


*smiles* there are lot of things I don't want to talk about. Demons are as real as you make them. Take note of deliverance pastors and priests; they don't go straight to deliverance, they "play" with the demons. Watch tb joshua for example, they converse with the demons, they try to talk as much as possible with the demons, they want the possessed to fall and shout and act out. I am not like that, I will deliver a possessed person immediately. I don't take pleasure in all the drama.
It is all psychological. Study more on hypnotism and you will understand what is going on between those pastors and the "possessed"


I don't know what happens after death, there are many conflicting theories to this.
Christians can believe whatever they want, so do other people and religions.


They shld keep being christians if it makes them happy. Life is short they will all die pretty soon, so, they shld die happy. Not everyone is strong enough to discard the god concept.




I am happy as I am and I am absolutely sure christianity is man made and operates on a lot of psychological and sociological mechanisms.

I have gone through your story and I must thank you for sharing this with us. You are really enlightened.

Here is my reaction:


[1] From all arguments, discussions, knowledge and teachings, none has neither been able to prove beyond all reasonable doubts the existence or nonexistence of God. (Maybe that why he is God )

Christianity, Islam, Judaism... are all REVEALED religion with some similarities and differences in their beliefs, teachings and mode of worship.

You have gone a thousand miles in the christian faith (remember there are other religions) and had a terrific experience. Are you going to discard the existence of God based on your findings and discovery during the journey?

Christianity was revealed to you. Islam would have been revealed to you if you were born in an Islamic family. As a child like you pointed out, one can't reason effectively. you accept whatever you teacher/parents tell you.

God didn't give us religion. He gave us reason (mind). I would encourage you to embrace DEISM (you can google it) instead of Atheism based on fact I presented in paragraph [1]

Take care.

@hardmirror
you've done a good job to make me know what I didn't know abt God and the world. you have literally base ur fact. Now I want to know more on the Xtian part.
But ryt now.. I know I was created from somewhere and al the world bliv it's God bt am not quite convince bcoz tings don't just add up.. I can't conclude. well thnx fr d story.. waiting for a Xtianity to tell theirs .

HardMirror:

Saw what you did there.
We all know hell aint real.

am a Muslim. i read your story, the entirty of it and i can actually understand everything you wrote. there is an islamic explanation to all your experiences but that is story for another day. for now i just want to ask, what do you think will happen to us after death, or what do you think we will be doing after we die?

ibson99:
am a Muslim. i read your story, the entirty of it and i can actually understand everything you wrote. there is an islamic explanation to all your experiences but that is story for another day. for now i just want to ask, what do you think will happen to us after death, or what do you think we will be doing after we die?

when we die, we go back to our creator.

Part 4: Pastor To Atheist: Why I Will Never Be A Christian Again


Click the link below for part four of this intriguing story.












































In episode 4 you will learn how OP has found new love in Romance section of nairaland and how he now loves his women (don't ask me whether porn is involved because you know the answer)