honourhim:


God bless you for saying the truth

I've adressed what he said... d edom verse explained it... you guys haven't explained any of the verses i brought forth in the light of eternal torment. u guys r just repeating the same thing that has been refuted without making any point or refuting mine.. u can start with the ones in the picture

King Henry VII not the RCC most likely ordered the execution of William Tyndale, the first translator of the bible to English.

Wilgrea7:

wow... i never actually knew that.. thanks for the info.. do u have any knowledge of other bibles different from martin Luther's own? i would like to read a few.. thanks

[quote author=Wilgrea7 post=50634367]

Let me give you a technical definition of a parable followed by a more simple definition: (1) "Parable: [Greek, para bole’= BESIDE CAST]--A statement ‘cast beside’ or parallel to its real spiritual significance, a figure of likeness in action." GREEK-ENGLISH KEYWORD CONCORDANCE p. 216. (2) "A short and simple tale based on familiar things meant to convey a much deeper and profound moral or spiritual truth,"
WEBSTER’S DICTIONARY. In Old English it was called a "near-story."
Jesus spoke in parables throughout His whole ministry. In Matthew chapter 13 we are given seven different parables. No parable is literal or historical. The second we make a parable literal, it ceases to be a parable. Jesus spoke ONLY in parables (not true life or historical stories) among the masses of people who followed Him wherever He went.
I am going to some length to demonstrate the absolute absurdity of teaching this parable of Lazarus or any other parable as a literal and historical event

. I m not surprise seeing the teaching our Jesus attacked more aggressively on recent.

PARABLES MAY MENTION IDENTIFIABLE PERSONS
Is Luke 16:19-31 a "parable?" Many in orthodoxy say that it absolutely is not a parable because a person is mentioned by name and identified as a specific and particular person. The mention of an identifiable person is not, however, the test of a parable. Besides other parables do mention identifiable persons, but they are still parables:

Mark 4:15
Mentions Satan
Matt. 13:37
Mentions The Son of man
Matt. 13:39
Mentions The devil
Matt. 15:13

Mentions God the Father
II Sam. 12:7
Is said to be King David
Ezek. 23:1-4
Mentions Aholah and Aholibah
Luke 4:23
Jesus applies ‘Physician’ to HIMSELF
JESUS SPEAKS TO THE MASSES IN PARABLES ONLY

these parables do not have names of identifable persons. stop spreading lies.

Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and multitudes in parables:
"And He begins to speak to them in parables." (Mk.. 12:1).
Jesus spoke to the multitudes in parables ONLY:
"All these things Jesus speaks in parables to the throngs, and apart from a parable He spoke nothing to them..." (Mat. 13:34).
Jesus spoke in parables so that his listeners would not understand Him:
"Wherefore art Thou speaking in parables to them? ... To you has it been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, yet to those it has NOT been given." (Matt.. 13:10-11).
Not even the apostles understood these parables (Lk, 16:14)! Jesus had to explain their meaning to them in private (Mat. 13:18, 36), (Mat. 15:15), etc.
The fact that Jesus spoke to the masses in parables only, ought to be sufficient Scriptural evidence to anyone that Lazarus and the Rich man is indeed a parable. There are, however, many many more proofs.

pls kindly show where Jesus explain the story of the richman and lazarus?
You have no proof!
Lets see the rest of your post

Those who understand the story literally tend to argue two main points: that life continues immediately after death, either in heaven or hell, before the return of Jesus Christ; and that hell is a place of eternal torment. Those who consider the story as a parable tend to look for the spiritual meaning rather than the literal one. Why is there such confusion?
The story follows a long line of parables told by Jesus in the book of Luke. In chapter 14, we find the parable regarding prominent places at the dinner table, the parable of the great banquet, and several parables about the cost of following Christ. In chapter 15, we find the parable of the lost sheep, the parable of the lost coin, and the parable of the prodigal son. Chapter 16 includes the parable of the shrewd manager and then shares the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The story’s position relative to the other parables implies, contextually, that it is also a parable. However, the others are specifically mentioned as parables whereas the story of the rich man and Lazarus is not. This change in the Bible’s language, despite its context with the other parables, causes some to believe that the story is to be understood literally.

everyone knew the parable of the prodigal son is a parable but it does not mean there are no such occurrence.


Another thing you should know is that Jesus made parable with real and everyday occurrencies, not abstract things that do not exist, hence the people could relate.

Can we determine which is the correct interpretation? Let us first identify the things that must be true, according to the story, if it is literal:
The righteous dead go to live in Abraham’s bosom
The wicked dead are able to speak despite their torment
Those in hell can speak to those in heaven, and vice-versa
The dead in heaven and hell both have bodies
A drop of water is expected to relieve the torments of hell
Abraham, though faithful, was just a man like any other. In order for all the righteous dead to go to live in his bosom, he would have to be quite large. The “fixed gulf” between heaven and hell is apparently not so fixed to prevent communication between them, according to this story. And the flames of hell are said to be so weak that those in hell can carry on normal conversation and expect only a drop of water to soothe them! That is hardly a picture of torment. Finally, the Bible says plainly that the righteous dead will receive new bodies at Christ’s return (1 Corinthians 15:51 , 52 ), and the risen wicked a thousand years later (Revelation 20:5 ), so this story contradicts the plain words of the Bible by giving new bodies before the second coming. In light of all this, it seems clear that the story cannot be literal and must be a parable.

If you read the story you would notice the story happened before the coming of christ,

Lazarus was seen in the bosom of abraham, the man been conforted. Is the man not a son of Abraham? Why will you be surprise?

Since both the righteous and the wicked were in sheol, is it not logical they can see themselves and even communicate?

The story does not suggest that a drop of water can quench his state but illustrates the degree at the thirst of the richman.
To know why the richman would sick for water just read a medical book of a dying man whose blood is getting short? Or when humans are dehydrated what do they ask for?

hy would Jesus not plainly state that the story is a parable? First, let’s identify the audience. According to verse 14, Christ is speaking to the Pharisees. The Pharisees believed and taught many things that were not according to the Scriptures. Among them was that the Jews, upon their death, would go to Abraham’s bosom to live in paradise. This version of the belief in an immortal soul had its roots in the kingdom of Babylon, not in the Scriptures, and was not universally accepted by the Jewish people. (The Sadducees, another leading religious group, disbelieved in any resurrection at all.)


Therefore, because Christ was speaking specifically to the Pharisees, He used their own language to emphasize His point.
The Pharisees also viewed earthly wealth as a sign of God’s favor. Thus, when Christ told the story about the rich man going to hell while the beggar found comfort in heaven, He was directly attacking this idea. In combination with the language of Abraham’s bosom, the Pharisees knew exactly what Christ meant: that the Pharisees were incorrect in their traditions, understandings, and teachings.
Christ repeatedly drew His listeners’ attention back to the Old Testament Scriptures (John 5:39 , Matthew 22:29 , Luke 24:27 ). Therefore, we should look at the abundance of Scriptural evidence that supports the sleep of death while awaiting the resurrection to draw our conclusions about death, rather than a single story that is illogical unless understood as a parable. Additionally, Christ Himself taught that the dead sleep in their graves until they hear His voice (John 5:25 ).
It is clear, then, that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus does not support the idea of immediate life in heaven or hell after death

.so many lies in your posts.
Can you post one parable where names of real people was used?
How does hell fire contradicts the old testament?
every parable Jesus spoke to the phareeses he explains the meaning to his disciples. Where is the interpretation for that parable?

The story didnt say lazarus was in heaven why do you misquote the bible?


I have so much for you but i dont have time

solite3:


. I m not surprise seeing the teaching our Jesus attacked more aggressively on recent.

attack?? I'm showing u that the story is a parable and yet you say I'm attacking it

solite3:
these parables do not have names of identifable persons. stop spreading lies.

ok... so satan is not an identifiable person, devil isn't an identifiable person, the son of man isn't an identifiable person?? who is now the one spreading lies?

solite3:
pls kindly show where Jesus explain the story of the richman and lazarus?
You have no proof!
Lets see the rest of your post

... very funny... how many of Jesus parables did he explain secretly, is it all?? stop tying to make an accusation that has no ground

solite3:
Another thing you should know is that Jesus made parable with real and everyday occurrencies, not abstract things that do not exist, hence the people could relate.

the story of lazarus and the rich man isn't an everyday occurrence abi?? what makes it a non-everyday occurrence?

solite3:
Lazarus was seen in the bosom of abraham, the man been conforted. Is the man not a son of Abraham? Why will you be surprise?
Since both the righteous and the wicked were in sheol, is it not logical they can see themselves and even communicate?
The story does not suggest that a drop of water can quench his state but illustrates the degree at the thirst of the richman.
To know why the richman would sick for water just read a medical book of a dying man whose blood is getting short? Or when humans are dehydrated what do they ask for?

this is real funny.. Lazarus was never said to be righteous... he was said to be poor.. the rich man was never said to be a sinner.. he was just simply rich. you don't know the significance of the parable and you don't care to ask.. you're just calling it false. why was Abraham used there? why would a place in sheol be called Abraham's bosom? was he the first righteous person to have died?? what of Noah, Adam, Abel and many others?? Abraham's significance there is that he is the father of their faith.. the rich man represents the Pharisees and Jews blessed with the wisdom and blessings of God.. yet they refuse to share with the gentiles surrounding them. the purple and linen cloth the rich man was wearing was and has always been a symbol of royalty and priesthood.. that's the more reason he was referring to the Jews(God's choosen people)

In contrast to the rich man, we now see Lazarus. The first thing to note is that he is depicted as a beggar. This is an apt description of the Gentiles who "laid at the gate" of Judah. Paul describes the predicament of the Gentiles before they received Christ in Ephesians 2:12.
EPHESIANS 2:12 Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world

First, to prove that this language is symbolic and not meant to be taken literally, let's examine exactly what we are told by Christ. He says that first , Lazarus dies and is taken to the bosom of Abraham. Notice, there is no mention of his burial here. Then later the rich man dies, and he is buried (in Hades, according to verse 23). So the time sequence given indicates that upon his death, Lazarus was taken immediately to Abraham's bosom, while afterward the rich man was buried in Hades after his death.
If this story is literal, then we have a contradiction in the Bible. Here, Lazarus is shown to have immediately received the promise of eternal life. Yet the author of Hebrews clearly tells us that Abraham, as well as all the other Old Testament saints, have not yet received the promises given to them by God.
HEBREWS 11:13 All these [Abraham, Noah, Abel, etc.] died in faith, without receiving the promises , but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. . . . 39 And all these [including Abraham], having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

this below is the symbolism of Abraham in the parable

GALATIANS 3:6 . . . Abraham "believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham . 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

First, notice that the rich man identifies Abraham as his father, just as the Pharisees did (John 8:39). The rich man (Judah) is now shown to be undergoing reproof, testing, and punishment in "this flame" (singular, not "these flames". It is quite obvious that the flame is not literal, because a wet fingertip on the tongue would do nothing to quench the pain inflicted by real flames.

LUKE 16:25 "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. (NKJV )
Abraham clearly identifies the rich man as his descendant by calling him "son." He tells him that things have changed. When the Jews were God's chosen people, they enjoyed the spiritual blessings associated with that status. But now, Abraham says, Lazarus is enjoying those blessings while the rich man is grieving and in sorrow.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah, the progenitor of the Jews, was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).


because of these reasons and many more, the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable and not literal

Peacefullove:


you forget a dead man return to dust !!!

but Satan will be alive for everlasting in that fire right ? will he be dead ?


if Satan is alive for everlasting in that fire , does that not simply means he has everlasting life ( emphasis on " ALIVE " to be living, have life) ?

Hmmm, yes Satan may live everlasting but however I don't know much about him, I only know about man spending an everlasting in heaven. But you should also remember that God has the capacity to destroy satan at the last day. And even if he lives forever he is going to live in torment. Don't you see two different things there?

solite3:
.so many lies in your posts.
Can you post one parable where names of real people was used?
How does hell fire contradicts the old testament?
every parable Jesus spoke to the phareeses he explains the meaning to his disciples. Where is the interpretation for that parable?

biggest lie you've said so far
i showed u the list of parables with people's name yet you disagree and u just chose a few and used it to attack me... pure biasness

show me with proof that all parables spoken to the pharisees were interpreted by Jesus secretly. that's a blatant lie.. the parable of the Pharisee and the Republican.. was it interpreted secretly? the parable of the wedding garment... did Jesus reveal the meaning secretly?? sir stop lying...these are just few of the parables Jesus spoke to the Pharisees.. yet he didn't give his disciples the meaning.. that is a blantant lie....

all the parables in the bible always took a form and started with the phrase “there was a certain".. the story of Lazarus and the rich man also followed the structure of all other parables.. so your logic of it being literal becomes greatly flawed

also... you have a whole picture of anhilation verses which u have to interpret in the light of eternal torment

Genesis2000:


Hmmm, yes Satan may live everlasting but however I don't know much about him, I only know about man spending an everlasting in heaven. But you should also remember that God has the capacity to destroy satan at the last day. And even if he lives forever he is going to live in torment. Don't you see two different things there?

.

Don't listen to anyone saying that satan and angels and demons are immortal.. they may be immortal to men but not to God.. anyone saying God cannot destroy Satan because satan is immortal is telling a big lie.. God created them and gave them their immortality so he can as well take it away.. i have no doubt Satan's punishment will be way longer than any human because humans live most times below 100 years and they didn't spend every second of the hundred years sinning... also.. it was because of the fall of adam we had the nature to sin
Satan on the other hand was a perfect angel who sinned probably billions of years ago and has been sinning and looking for ways to bring God's plan to fail.. his problem started billions of years ago whereas ours was just a tiny period of time... so Satan's punishment will be more than that of every human since he is actually the cause of our problem

Wilgrea7:
.

Don't listen to anyone saying that satan and angels and demons are immortal.. they may be immortal to men but not to God.. anyone saying God cannot destroy Satan because satan is immortal is telling a big lie.. God created them and gave them their immortality so he can as well take it away.. i have no doubt Satan's punishment will be way longer than any human because humans live most times below 100 years and they didn't spend every second of the hundred years sinning... also.. it was because of the fall of adam we had the nature to sin
Satan on the other hand was a perfect angel who sinned probably billions of years ago and has been sinning and looking for ways to bring God's plan to fail.. his problem started billions of years ago whereas ours was just a tiny period of time... so Satan's punishment will be more bthan that of every human since he is actually the cause of our problem

Thanks alots. I totally agreed with you, God have the power to destroy satan and his engels with whatever substances he uses in creating them, if he so wishes. I only speaks with what i knows and what I have been familiarized with. Infact to me i don't think God will even take or derived joy in punishing them with fire forever even if they have sins for billions years. The only things I thinks he will do is to destroyed them once and for all. And he can now consetrates with his sons, dauthers and his Holy engels in Heaven.

Wilgrea7:


thank you..

if you also read down you will see the part where the righteous are received unto everlasting LIFE

everlasting fire, as well as eternal fire means fire which its effects are everlasting.. the outcome is everlasting. the destruction is everlasting

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL fire.

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

as u can see above.. the eternal fire turned Sodom and Gomorrah to ash... they aren't running around burning today

everlasting fire isn't the fire that burns you forever without end... its the fire which its destruction lasts forever.

Na wa for your interpretation of Scriptures. So, the fire will be burning eternally while the object for which the fire was set would ve been burnt to ashes?

I hope you realize that Sodom and Gomorrah were cities? The people of Sodom and Gomorrah shall certainly resurrect to stand the white throne Judgement, If not why will Christ say this...?

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matthew:10:15

Keep fighting this, if you dont repent, you'd end up there.

Wilgrea7:


I've adressed what he said... d edom verse explained it... you guys haven't explained any of the verses i brought forth in the light of eternal torment. u guys r just repeating the same thing that has been refuted without making any point or refuting mine.. u can start with the ones in the picture

I don't have time to keep going round and round over an issue that has been discussed extensively here..
You can continue with your false teaching. You are just quoting scriptures anyhow like pentecostal pastors when they want to lure their congregation into their greed. Of course that is what is required to make a false teaching look like the truth.
In the other threads where this issue was discussed extensively someone asked why would God raise dead sinners some of who died thousands of years ago who have , according to your teaching, gone into extinction (since you don't believe in life after death). If its about extinction why raise them up again since they are already not existing any more?. None of you have provided a satisfactory answer to this.
You can continue with your teaching and win as much souls as you can. For me i stand for the truth no matter how bitter it is.

analice107:


Na wa for your interpretation of Scriptures. So, the fire will be burning eternally while the object for which the fire was set would ve been burnt to ashes?

I hope you realize that Sodom and Gomorrah were cities? The people of Sodom and Gomorrah shall certainly resurrect to stand the white throne Judgement, If not why will Christ say this...?

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matthew:10:15

Keep fighting this, if you dont repent, you'd end up there.

That's how the guy operates. He keeps pulling out scriptures and giving it all sorts of interpretations to make his false teaching look like truth.
Notice his chest-beating having felt he has used his manipulation of the scripture to convince people.

analice107:


Na wa for your interpretation of Scriptures. So, the fire will be burning eternally while the object for which the fire was set would ve been burnt to ashes?

I hope you realize that Sodom and Gomorrah were cities? The people of Sodom and Gomorrah shall certainly resurrect to stand the white throne Judgement, If not why will Christ say this...?

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matthew:10:15

Keep fighting this, if you dont repent, you'd end up there.

if you read the thread you'll see the meaning of eternal fire... its results are eternal.. the fire can't be quenched.. just like in the case of sodom and Gomorrah.. no escape from it.. running into a river won't help you... it will reduce to ashes just like Sodom and Gomorrah and just like Edom.. it doesn't leave any trace... if it does then explain these scriptures

"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be : yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Psalms 37:10.

"But the wicked shall perish , and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away ." Psalms 37:20

Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: t he soul that sinneth, it shall die ." Ezekiel 18:4.

don't deceive yourself.
why would Jesus use the judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah as example?? because their judgement has been carried out.. sodom and Gomorrah no longer exist... they were wiped from existence.. that was exactly Jesus point.. so saying that sodom and Gomorrah (as cities which have been destroyed) have any judgement coming to them is a fallacy..

also... look at the verse u quoted again


Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, THAN FOR THAT CITY
Matthew:10:15

Jesus is talking about the judgement coming on the city of those that reject his message. he used Sodom and Gomorrah as an example.. so please don't quote out of context

u said i should repent? what does repentance have to do in belief in eternal torment?? I've showed u all biblical proof from both the verses you brought forth and the ones i brought that hell isn't eternal torment but yet all you can do is to say I'm twisting the scripture.. look at all what I've been posting and all what you eternal torment preachers have been posting and tell me who's twisting what.. anyone looking at it with an unbiased mind can tell that I'm not the one twisting the scripture or quoting out of context

spread the good news
our God isn't a sadist
He is a just God
A God of love
but also a God of justice

i stand for the truth.... even if i stand alone

honourhim:

That's how the guy operates. He keeps pulling out scriptures and giving it all sorts of interpretations to make his false teaching look like truth.
Notice his chest-beating having felt he has used his manipulation of the scripture to convince people.

a black pen calling a blue pen black doesn't make the blue pen black.. you guys have not shown any proof of your false doctrine.. you claim i twist scriptures yet i show u the truth and you reject it.. the truth is bitter .. i agree... but a bitter lie isn't still truth.
none of you have refuted what i said.. you're just singing that I'm preaching a false doctrine yet i quote from the bible.... upon careful analysis it seems you're the ones quoting out of context and twisting scripture... i don't twist things for my gain... I'm saying things as they are... how it is written in the bible... yet u guys refuse the facts from the bible in the name of your church doctrine... continue
I'll continue to stand for the truth even if i stand alone

honourhim:


I don't have time to keep going round and round over an issue that has been discussed extensively here..
You can continue with your false teaching. You are just quoting scriptures anyhow like pentecostal pastors when they want to lure their congregation into their greed. Of course that is what is required to make a false teaching look like the truth.
In the other threads where this issue was discussed extensively someone asked why would God raise dead sinners some of who died thousands of years ago who have , according to your teaching, gone into extinction (since you don't believe in life after death). If its about extinction why raise them up again since they are already not existing any more?. None of you have provided a satisfactory answer to this.
You can continue with your teaching and win as much souls as you can. For me i stand for the truth no matter how bitter it is.

you are the ones saying the dead are extinct... the bible said they are asleep. or where in the bible did it say a dead man is extinct? the bible clearly stated times without number that people who die are asleep and will be raised up on the last day


I'm not a Pentecostal.. i was once until i was loosed from dogmatism... i once believed in the doctrine of eternal torment until I saw the truth about it.. I've seen the truth and I'm not going to be stingy with it... if u can let go of all biasness you will see the truth.. except u gain money from preaching this fake scare tactic

i stand for the truth... even if i stand alone

TheSixthSense:
OP while your explanation is plausible and makes a lot of sense. I would suggest you leave it as a mystery rather than outrightly calling it false. The JWs who don't believe in Jesus Christ also use the same adjusted comma to give it the meaning consistent with your teaching thus: 'Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise'
Many people have died and come back to life, they are quite many that it would be really obstinate to discredit all of their experiences. Plus, I'm sure there are scriptural references, which I don't know about, for those of us that believe it is immediate like the early Christians did.
About eternal torment, it is a perspective thing on how one views God in light of their scriptural interpretation. The Bible describes our Lord Jesus Christ as a consuming fire and those who reject Him would experience Him as exactly that. I have come learn that threatening unbelievers with hell is not only ignorant but very arrogant and this is also the foundation of atheism in the church. There is no love in that and it is contradictory to our God that is Love. God is Good, Just, and Not partial and in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him (Acts 10:35) God loves workers of righteousness no matter what they currently believe and He finds them.
I only pity those that curse God because they have become atheists not even the indifferent atheists that disbelieved because of perhaps plausible reasons.

Yes sir, you have well spoken, but no one is actually threatening anyone.

I lost a dear very beautiful friend to the arms of death because of a situation such as this.

She got pregnant and in the process her doctor noticed she had too narrow pelvis, so couldn't push out a baby without risking her life or the babe's.

Her doctor instructed for her to come to the Hospital on a particular date so that a C.S would be done on her to save her and her baby.

But some elderly women in her Church told her that she was like a Hebrew woman and that she will have her baby safely and not take the THREAT of the doctor seriously.


Besides she was told that any woman who does not go through normal labour is a good as barren.


She took the warning of her doctors as a threat, and believed her church women rather than her doctor.

Delivery day came, instead of going to the hospital, she went to the church (The Apostolic Church) as instructed. She was in labour for days, she couldn't be delivered of the baby.

When the women with her saw that she was half dead, they chattered a taxi, loaded her and gave her husband's address to the driver to take her home, while they went back to their various houses.

Meanwhile, when her husband came back from work, she was gone, called, her phone and found it at home.

the whole night she didnt come back. The man went to their clinic, she never went there. The man panicked. called everyone he felt she could visit, no one had seen her. called her parents and asked, they didnt see her, he taught they weren't telling him the truth. He travelled to her village, he was in her father's house when his senior brother called him to come back, only for him to get there and find his wife in the mortuary already.

Wive dead, baby dead.

Now, if she had listened to the Doctor and not take his instruction as a threat, she would be alive she and her baby.

If we warn the unbelievers of the danger ahead but they take it as a threat, then its unfortunate.

Even Yahweh said he will require their blood from our hands if we know that they are on the wrong track but fail to warn them.

No one will know he is on a wrong track and continues on it. Immediately the realization comes, a change also comes. But if they fight it what can u do?

If i warn them and they take it as a threat, i will be free, but if they stand before God realizing they were told, but yapped at it, the fault will be theirs not mine anymore.

And remember sir, Hellfire was not created for man, any man who goes there goes there out of his own volition.

shadeyinka:


I believe that the response to the so called parables of Jesus and the meaning of His statements about hell is presented below


Please, let's focus on the message and instructions of Christ. The truth could be unacceptably bitter, but feelings do not change the truth

Thank you sir.

analice107:
Thank you sir.

I've adressed that

Scholar8200:

Remember that it speaks of torment? Can a lifeless being be tormented?

This verse mention carcasses just as Revelations 20:12 talks of the dead standing before God and were judged. Besides, if the fires would eradicate why would it leave the carcasses?

Sir, perhaps if it had said their ashes (like we would find in man's Gehenna) would be an abhorrence I should rest my case.

I guess what he wants us to believe is that, everything but the ashes will remain, but the eternal fire will keep burning the ashes for ever.
Wen people live in denial they willingly become blind to even their own light.

raphieMontella:

they didnt want you to...
They knew it would be disastrous...
As you can see...as you were allowed to have the bible-----over 33,000 christian denominations...

Is that the defense you'd put before God wen u meet Him? 33,000 Christian denominations are the reason you hate and insult God?

analice107:

Yes sir, you have well spoken, but no one is actually threatening anyone.

I lost a dear very beautiful friend to the arms of death because of a situation such as this.

She got pregnant and in the process her doctor noticed she had too narrow pelvis, so couldn't push out a baby without risking her life or the babe's.

Her doctor instructed for her to come to the Hospital on a particular date so that a C.S would be done on her to save her and her baby.

But some elderly women in her Church told her that she was like a Hebrew woman and that she will have her baby safely and not take the THREAT of the doctor seriously.


Besides she was told that any woman who does not go through normal labour is a good as barren.


She took the warning of her doctors as a threat, and believed her church women rather than her doctor.

Delivery day came, instead of going to the hospital, she went to the church (The Apostolic Church) as instructed. She was in labour for days, she couldn't be delivered of the baby.

When the women with her saw that she was half dead, they chattered a taxi, loaded her and gave her husband's address to the driver to take her home, while they went back to their various houses.

Meanwhile, when her husband came back from work, she was gone, called, her phone and found it at home.

the whole night she didnt come back. The man went to their clinic, she never went there. The man panicked. called everyone he felt she could visit, no one had seen her. called her parents and asked, they didnt see her, he taught they weren't telling him the truth. He travelled to her village, he was in her father's house when his senior brother called him to come back, only for him to get there and find his wife in the mortuary already.

Wive dead, baby dead.

Now, if she had listened to the Doctor and not take his instruction as a threat, she would be alive she and her baby.

If we warn the unbelievers of the danger ahead but they take it as a threat, then its unfortunate.

Even Yahweh said he will require their blood from our hands if we know that they are on the wrong track but fail to warn them.

No one will know he is on a wrong track and continues on it. Immediately the realization comes, a change also comes. But if they fight it what can u do?

If i warn them and they take it as a threat, i will be free, but if they stand before God realizing they were told, but yapped at it, the fault will be theirs not mine anymore.

And remember sir, Hellfire was not created for man, any man who goes there goes there out of his own volition.

you guys who claim immediate everlasting punishment after death apart from biblical evidence against it dont see the huge flaw in it.. hell was created for Satan and his angels... they deceive people and tempt peoole to sin.. they die and go and burn in the prison not meant for them while the devil and his agents keep roaming about and spoiling things the more.. where is the logic in that??

analice107:

I guess what he wants us to believe is that, everything but the ashes will remain, but the eternal fire will keep burning the ashes for ever.
Wen people live in denial they willingly become blind to even their own light.

did the eternal fire of Sodom and Gomorrah keep burning the ashes of sodom and Gomorrah forever?? are the ashes still burning today?? did the eternal fire of edom burn the ashes forever?? is edom burning today?? did it not become a wasteland?? please get your facts right and stop going round in circles

TheSixthSense:
The first was as early as 42-47AD in Alexandria before the church in Rome was founded but they were all one holy Catholic apostolic church before a schism in 1054 AD resulted in the church in Rome as the roman catholic church. The church in Rome is Roman Catholic. Catholic means universal so it is inappropriate to use that for the church in Rome as it is known today but there is an older church.
Pope was/is a title for a bishop. While St Peter was a bishop of the church in Rome, there were also other bishops that didn't have the title as pope. The church in Alexandria had St Mark the evangelist (the author of the gospel of Mark and disciple of Peter) as the bishop. The church was founded by Peter and Paul before they founded the church in Rome. There was also another church in Antioch also with a bishop and another in Constantinople I think with a bishop. The bishops are all named in the bible as apostles.
Successors of bishops are bishops, Pope is a title used by the Bishop of Rome so just as the Popes were mentioned in the Bible other bishops were mentioned or are mentioned in early church documents.

Sir, the church started in the upper room with 120 Souls. Through the Acts of Apostles there churches, howbeit, without names but locations. Our Problem started when identifiable names like the one you just mentioned came into play. There was nothing like The universal Catholic Apostolic whatever. This was were denominations began.

On the day od Pentecost, 3,000 souls were added to the Church, what was the name of that church?

The Church that Paul was reporting to in Jerusalme headed by James, Jesus' brother who was later killed by King Herod, then Peter took over, what was the name of that Church and was it the same one you talked about as being formed in 42-47AD?

No Sir. The Universal Church of Christ doesn't have a name.

pardon my ignorance I'm a bit confused here

I thought there's a holy spirit inside all Christians that would reveal answers to arguments such as this if you ask him? why then don't you guys ask him in order to put this to bed once and for all?

each side of the argument keeps supporting his points with biblical verses, meaning there's a stalemate

spiritual (not scriptural) answers are what's needed here not back and forth

Peacefullove:


So devil and his angels will have everlasting life too ?

Yes. but in hellfire.

Every immortal life is eternal. There are immortals already. But the living are not yet, but will be.

Wen we die we shall become immortals too, wherever you find yourself will determine where u'd spend your eternity. everyone is a spirit, spirits don't die.

otemanuduno:
Where did Martin Luther break out from? The Muslims, no. The Catholic, YES! CATHOLICISM IS THE FOUNDATION OF CHRISTIANITY.

I think you shd concentrate and preach atheism and leave Christianity alone, for you know nothing about it.

If Catholicism was the base of Christianity on what grounds then did Martin Luther stood on to leave Catholicism?

Peacefullove:


*smiles*

popular tactic of evading logical points. it won't work here bro


for Satan and his angels to be preserved forever to be burning continuously, they must be ALIVE forever which necessitate having an everlasting LIFE
.

its. evident that someone whom will be alive forever must have everlasting life ,

everlasting life means never ending life , you mean Satan and his angels will have this too ?

It is not satan and his angels that are preserved, it is the HELL that is preserved until after the white throne Judgement, that's wen they all will be cast therein.

analice107:

I guess what he wants us to believe is that, everything but the ashes will remain, but the eternal fire will keep burning the ashes for ever.
Wen people live in denial they willingly become blind to even their own light.

Thanks a lot. I fear there are that argue, not for Truth's sake but just wanting to have the last say. I've learnt to oblige them.

Wilgrea7:


a black pen calling a blue pen black doesn't make the blue pen black.. you guys have not shown any proof of your false doctrine.. you claim i twist scriptures yet i show u the truth and you reject it.. the truth is bitter .. i agree... but a bitter lie isn't still truth.
n

. You are just funny . What is bitter about your teaching? That sinners will not burn forever? How is this more bitter than the teaching of eternal torment? Maybe you want to redefine the word "bitter"
You redefined the word "forever, eternal, everlasting" in your effort to massage your lies. Did you see me redefine any word in the passages being quoted?
Oga you don't need to give yourself too much pressure, continue with your lies as much as it pleases you.

Wilgrea7:



did the eternal fire of Sodom and Gomorrah keep burning the ashes of sodom and Gomorrah forever?? are the ashes still burning today?? did the eternal fire of edom burn the ashes forever?? is edom burning today?? did it not become a wasteland?? please get your facts right and stop going round in circles

Did you get the part which Jesus said Sodom and Gomorrah shall stand the white throne Judgement?

There's something you are either not getting or are fighting to suppress.

The land (Physical Habitat) has been burnt, but is that the same with the souls of them who died there?

I heard you saying you are not JW but here you are projecting their doctrines of Materialism.
Every one has a soul and The Master said, Sodom will resurrect, when the Master said that, did he mean the land of Sodom or the people of sodom? Na waoo.


Lets start from here, Post where it says the fire which burnt out Sodom and Gomorrah is eternal.

Sodom and Gomorrah can not keep burning becos the fire which burned Sodom is not the same with fire of hell. The fire of Sodom consumed everything, and its temporal while the fire of hell is eternal. it burns but doesnt consume.

God showed us a gleams of what that fire is like wen He showed Moses in the Wilderness, the fire was burning but wasn't consuming the substance.

The physical fire of Sodom leaves Ashes, but the fire of hell doesn't consume so there wont be any ashes.

Wilgrea7:



you guys who claim immediate everlasting punishment after death apart from biblical evidence against it dont see the huge flaw in it.. hell was created for Satan and his angels... they deceive people and tempt peoole to sin.. they die and go and burn in the prison not meant for them while the devil and his agents keep roaming about and spoiling things the more.. where is the logic in that??

I do not claim immediate everlasting punishment in hellfire after death.
Theres no hellfire burning yet as satan is not done with his ministry yet.
The Antichrist has not done is part. If hellfire is burning Satan wont be roaming upandan wounding people.

There's yet to be the White Throne Judgement. It is after the White throne Judgement that Hades, Death, Satan, his agents, and his Angels shall all be cast into the lake of Fire.

Before you stand for something, make sure you get your facts right. The doctrine of materialism you are projecting now is atheistic in nature, just know that you cant believe in materialism and still believe in resurrection of the dead.

As a matter of fact, a JW materialist shd not believe in God. JW do not believe in Spirits, yet they believe in God who is a spirit. How do u reconcile that?

look am done here

Wilgrea7:



you guys who claim immediate everlasting punishment after death apart from biblical evidence against it dont see the huge flaw in it.. hell was created for Satan and his angels... they deceive people and tempt peoole to sin.. they die and go and burn in the prison not meant for them while the devil and his agents keep roaming about and spoiling things the more.. where is the logic in that??

I do not claim immediate everlasting punishment in hellfire after death.
Theres no hellfire burning yet as satan is not done with his ministry yet.
The Antichrist has not done is part. If hellfire is burning Satan wont be roaming upandan wounding people.

There's yet to be the White Throne Judgement. It is after the White throne Judgement that Hades, Death, Satan, his agents, and his Angels shall all be cast into the lake of Fire.

Before you stand for something, make sure you get your facts right. The doctrine of materialism you are projecting now is atheistic in nature, just know that you cant believe in materialism and still believe in resurrection of the dead.

As a matter of fact, a JW materialist shd not believe in God. JW do not believe in Spirits, yet they believe in God who is a spirit. How do u reconcile that?

look am done here.

honourhim:

. You are just funny . What is bitter about your teaching? That sinners will not burn forever? How is this more bitter than the teaching of eternal torment? Maybe you want to redefine the word "bitter"
You redefined the word "forever, eternal, everlasting" in your effort to massage your lies. Did you see me redefine any word in the passages being quoted?
Oga you don't need to give yourself too much pressure, continue with your lies as much as it pleases you.

wow... so its no longer about who's preaching truth.. its now about who's doctrine is more bitter... everyone will be rewarded according to his/her works and actions... it doesn't have to be bitter... it just has to be just..
u can continue with your fake tactic of eternal torment.. i won't blame u cuz we were all brought up to believe it... its only when u are ready to see the truth that you'll see it