Well,you seem to be adamant on the genocide thing and i guess i'll just leave you to it. Dede,hope you now see it wasn't a matter of lack of comprehension. Eziachi holds firmly to the view that the Biafran War was a genocide on Igbo people. He's not referring 2 any pogrom. I bet his opinion surprises you too.

If Eziachi thinks it was genocide then the Igbos brought it on themselves by their actions.

@ EZIACHI AND CO

You have made all efforts to maintain this agende on the front burner and no one is denying your

right to do so. i want to make one request since you have refused to accept the fact that what has

happened before many of us were born cannot be laid to rest. We are not really enthused by those

sad events but have taken them in our strides and embedded ourselves in the struggle to move ahead.

Our personal relationships are not based on the past but on our individual appraissal of who is my friend

and who can I do business with or even marry and not whose uncle was carrying a sabre in 1966. If you

can't get it , too bad.

Another option-- SHOW ME YOUR WAILING WALL AND WE SHALL JOIN YOU TO WAIL THERE ON ANYDAY YOU CHOOSE AS YOUR SABBATH


i

sleek_p:

If Eziachi thinks it was genocide then the Igbos brought it on themselves by their actions.

sleek_p,

I can't believe you made such a statement!

revomind:

Genocide. Nazis committed one on jews, the ruling hutus on tutsis in rwanda,milosevic of yugoslavia on the muslim bosnians. Whatever arises after 2 groups declare war can hardly be seen as genocide. Pearl Harbour and Hiroshima,Japs struck then the Americans in vengeance. The american response was more severe because they were stronger. Mr Eziachi, it was the Biafran War not a Genocide on Igbo people. Nixon, senator kennedy and a 'reputable newspaper' calling it one does not make it one. A far higher casualty on one side can never qualify war as a genocide. You should know this.
One more thing,i see you are trying 2 suggest to young non-igbo people that their fathers are rapists. Ludicrous! You  sound like a serious bigot who would have done worse than your perceived enemies. You specifically mentioned yoruba people and that got me wondering. Since you are the master of digging out hidden historical truths,i'm suprised that you didn't know that the bulk of foot soldiers were from the north and even neighbouring countries like Niger. And that to be fair,they have always been the least represented in the nigerian army. I maintain that it was a regrettable war situation fuelled by mutual hatred. It could have been either way.   

Clearly, the facts about the causes of the war still evade the grasp of your comprehension. Go get some relevant books and URLs, and read! Okay?

Nicely put citizeny. Anybody that has a contrary opinion to what these self-styled historians say is regarded an igbo-hater. They say its a genocide,you say no it isn't,next thing they label your fathers rapists and oppressors. They say they are jewish,you try to view it from a scientific angle,next thing they say you're envious. And you'd better not disagree with them on anything about Ojukwu or else, At the risk of incurring their wrath,i will say again,it was a war and looking thru our history 2geda as a country and even during the war,there's nothing to suggest that things would have been different if roles were switched. Regrettable it is but aint nobody walking around with some chip or guilt about what happend some 40 years ago in some war. I don't feel sorrier for biafra's casualty than i do when i read abt say,millions of russians who lost their lives in WW2. Terrorist bombings and the deaths they result from are neutrally sadder than when two groups choose to go at each other. My kid challenges anoda kid 2 a fight and gets thoroughly beaten is different from when he's bullied by a far stronger and older kid.

Oh Richyblack,i guess the Igbos were in love with the northerners when eastern soldiers wiped away essentially their ruling class and made fun out of it even in northern towns or when ironsi was orchestrating policies that would have enslaved northerners in the north. Yeah maybe its love but pogroms by the northerners aint nothing but hate, For any war,there's an underlying and basic reason. So since you're the smart and brainy one that has managed 2 get hold of the sacred and not-easily-accessible or understandable reasons for the war,u can purport 2 educate the rest,thats if they are interested tho'.

And again,perhaps your comprehension level ain't that high too since you couldn't deduce that the debate was if a genocide can be said to arise from a war. Nobody was arguing about what the cause or reason for the war was. Wait aren't you the guy that started a topic about which tribe is more numerous on facebook? Shouldn't take such a person seriously.

KnowAll:

Collateral Damage is part of war, war is not some gardening party. The beatiality of man is unleashed in such unfortunate circumstances, caution is throwing into the winds, this is a fact that is known and acknowledge all over the world. Even in the west Abu greb prison atrocities comes to mind.

To now think of war in the African context, where the name Geneva convention might be assumed or mistaken for the name of your arch enemy anything goes. If un watched or un-reported a whole race or tribe can be wiped out in Africa. The Rwanda pogrom comes to mind, in the undebelly of this sadsitic and inhumane butchery of humans the atrocities and crimes commited defiles logic or comprehension. Even the perpetuators of this ugly melee when informed of the pogrom they have commited are in self denial they cannot beleive in their wides dreams that they were capable of unraveling such dastardly act on people.

I see war in Africa as momentarily instance of madness, it will be foolhardy or stupid to revisit the sins commited by one party or the other in a sitituation of total anarchy or chaos to do such is to redefine madness.

As Gowon said after the war there was no winner and no vanquish I think that is the most famous quote of the Biafra war.

In my opinion, also part of the reason Nigeria is so backward - we are afraid to revisit, with unflinching scrutiny, the mistakes and folly of our past. The result is that we are then more susceptible to making worse mistakes in the future; hence, we have learned nothing from our past mistakes.

@ revomind
You've only posted 9 times and from the nairaland conventional wisdom, you are just one of those genocide deniers with a new username. No amount of changing your username can change that, and I'm not concerned about that.
I, and many Easterners are learning priceless lessons from these conversations. It is the type of dialogue that should have preceded the formation of the Nigerian federation. I don't blame the youngsters here (including the fake ones), I blame the irresponsibility of our people, which made possible the creation of a nation of strange bedfellows. For surely I, as Igbo, share nothing with you fundamentally. Other than skin color, we share nothing!

Like I said in another thread, Nigeria is not the first nation to fight a civil war and will not be the last. If all the other nations committed the same level of genocide against their people in the name of unity, and turned around to sweep that history under the carpet, none could have progressed an inch. And Nigeria has not progressed and will not progress until this type of dialogue is concluded.

Why should I, or any Igbo fight to protect anything Nigerian today? I almost never existed, talk less of being Nigerian! This is a question that should have been answered before the Nigerian nation was formed. The question even assumes more serious relevance  today in light of the lack of qualms among the progenitors of the most heinous crimes against humanity. If, because I want to go my separate way, my so-called compatriots plan to wipe me out, how does that make me feel toward such a nation? Moreso, if I feel that I am a prisoner in my fathers land, isn't it my bounden duty to tier down the walls of that prison?

I laughed when you said that Biafrans could have committed the same crimes if able. This shows your level of ignorance of the cultures of the peoples of Biafra. There has never been genocidal wars anywhere in the East that I know of. The Fulani Jihadists never made it to the Eastern heartlands in their days, and the Yoruba Oyo empire never passed Benin. In the brief occupation of midwest by Biafran forces, how many tens of thousands did they kill?

Onlytruth:

@ revomind
You've only posted 9 times and from the nairaland conventional wisdow, you are just one of those genocide deniers with a new username. No amount of changing your username can change that, and I'm not concerned about that.
I, and many Easterners are learning priceless lessons from these conversations. It is the type of dialogue that should have preceded the formation of the Nigerian federation. I don't blame the youngsters here (including the fake ones), I blame the irresponsibility of our people, which made possible the creation of a nation of strange bedfellows. For surely, I as Igbo share nothing with you fundamentally. Other than skin color, we share nothing!

Like I said in another thread, Nigeria is not the first nation to fight a civil war and will not be the last. If all the other nations committed the same level of genocide against their people in the name of unity, and turned around to sweep that history under the carpet, none could have progressed an inch. And Nigeria has not progressed and will not progress until this type of dialogue is concluded.

Why should I, or any Igbo fight to protect anything Nigerian today? I almost never existed, talk less of being Nigerian! This is a question that should have been answered before the Nigerian nation was formed. The question even assumes more serious relevance  today in light of the lack of qualms among the progenitors of the most heinous crimes against humanity. If, because I want to go my separate way, my so called compatriots plan to wipe me out, how does that make me feel toward such a nation? Moreso, if I feel that I am a prisoner in my fathers land, isn't it my bounden duty to tier down the walls of that prison?

I laughed when you said that Biafrans could have committed the same crimes if able. This shows your level of ignorance of the cultures of the peoples of Biafra. There has never been genocidal wars anywhere in the East that I know of. The Fulani Jihadists never made it to the Eastern heartlands in their days, and the Yoruba Oyo empire never passed Benin. In the brief occupation of midwest by Biafran forces, how many tens of thousands did they kill?

Excellent post with so many issues to ponder on.

^because he agrees with you right

@revomind, sleek_P, CitizenY

Like I said, I don’t want to debate the word genocide with you. I have asked you to define genocide, maybe I am wrong you maybe right. DEFINE genocide and then cite one example where you think it has only happened in history of man. I did not invent the word.

Just like your brother SLEEK_P had said, if it is genocide, we bring it upon ourselves, we deserved it. What can I say!  That is the mindset of most people you want me to share a life with? We are use to it. Some said that genocide doesn’t apply to war in Africa, well again, what can I say? The person that says that will one day become a leader in Nigeria and then you wonder why Nigeria is a manufacturing factory for bad leadership.

And your good friend CITIzenY then said his bit that he is not enthused by what happened as he want to move on with whom I don’t actually know.
If a man is not enthused about rape of the weaker vessels, what kind of a monster is that? I hope he has a mother, a sister, a wife or possibly a daughter and I pray that he will never had to check his cold enthusiasm with regards to those I mentioned one day. I will never wish it on my worst enemy.

Another one said Igbo officers killed northern leaders in a military coup, therefore, my mother deserved to be raped as her punishment for a military coup. It’s funny that the coup is Igbo coup because of Nzeogwu but his home town is constantly pushed today as non Igbo area because of oil money. Funny world!!

Bukasuka Dimka and Gideon Orkar both had tribes; I wonder why their tribes did not receive the same judgment for their crimes.

Honestly, I will ever be grateful to the internet and nairaland in particular for this great education of what Nigeria and their offspring is all about. I now firmly believe that a snake will ever produce something long in shape.
How I wish that, there is an after life, so that the likes of Azikiwe can see the greatest injustice they have done o their people and neighbours

So, for me, the bottomline remains that the foundations of the Nigerian nation is seriously flawed and baseless.

I don't want to forget my dead brothers and sisters, ever, because they fought for things higher than the fake things (rebranding for instance) which current leaders are peddling. They took a position, even in the face of HUGE ODDS, they decided to stand for something true, something real, something I can relate with, stuff great nations are made of.
No amount of revisionism can change that, and I will continue to invite young Igbo and other easterners to join this conversation. They hold powerful lessons!

A monument is required to remember and honour the victims of the heinous civil war. Whilst we are at it, something should be done for the veterans still alive but suffering terrible hardship and neglect.

To ignore these brave men and their families is the ultimate in lip service and remains an indelible stain on the conscience of the nation.

But I guess it's much easier to blame somebody else rather than step up to the plate and make a positive contribution.

Collateral Damage is part of war, war is not some gardening party. The beatiality of man is unleashed in such unfortunate circumstances, caution is throwing into the winds, this is a fact that is known and acknowledge all over the world. Even in the west Abu greb prison atrocities comes to mind.

I think ojukwu forgot to learn that at sandhurst or their dumb leaders did not think that through, before placing the lives of innocents into danger . When you start a war, you get what you get. These stupid tribalists who think igbo people are special are idiots. Angelizing igbo people as if these people were not the same ones who sold a significant amount of their own people into slavery. Some idiots would now blame europeans for everything. Power has the ability to twist human nature, and just because the igbo did not have access to the same amount of power as the yorubas and hausas does not mean that they are not capable of the atrocities that happened during the civil war.

In my opinion, also part of the reason Nigeria is so backward - we are afraid to revisit, with unflinching scrutiny, the mistakes and folly of our past. The result is that we are then more susceptible to making worse mistakes in the future; hence, we have learned nothing from our past mistakes.

No, nigeria is backward because people like you still see things through cloudy tribal lenses, assuming your people- who did undergo a great tragedy- were targetted for some special reason other than basic human instincts to protect their own. Yes, I am aware of what happened in the past, but i lwhat i learned from that past is not to care if someone is igbo, hausa or yoruba but to judge them as nigerian. What you and your tribalist friends want to do is portray yoruba people as evil, which commits the exact same crime of baseless prejudice as the people who enacted the biafran war.

For surely, I as Igbo share nothing with you fundamentally. Other than skin color, we share nothing!

Neither do i share nothing with my younger brother except we are both black- he likes pounded yam, and I like Amala so we are fundamentally different. We dress very differently too, so we are fundamentally different. Idiot.

Africans share a cultural motif in general- it is only your low IQ and poor education that makes it difficult for you to understand that.

The question even assumes more serious relevance today in light of the lack of qualms among the progenitors of the most heinous crimes against humanity. If, because I want to go my separate way, my so called compatriots plan to wipe me out, how does that make me feel toward such a nation? Moreso, if I feel that I am a prisoner in my fathers land, isn't it my bounden duty to tier down the walls of that prison?

you overrate the biafran war compared to other real heinous crimes. You idiots are comparing yourself to the holocaust. . Like the comparison doesn't make sense. Do you know what a genocide is?

^^^
No, I don't know. Can you please tell me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

Here is a list of genocides as described by the United Nations. I will not define it for you since i assume that you are not an idiot, you just have a low IQ.

Even the sri lankan government has been accused of genocide, if sri lanka (a really minor incident) could be accused of genocide and the biafran war is not categorized as genocide, then you can see how this was really just a civil war and less of the deliberate targetting of one ethnic group.

You have not yet answered my question.^^^

There are stages of genocides. If you really know what a genocide means (despite my young age, I have been involved in human right organizations since I was 16)- the stages of genocide according to political scientists are (1) classification, (2) symbolization, (3) dehumanization, (4) organization, (5) polarization, (6) preparation, (7) extermination and ( denial

The nigerian government did not even initiate stage 1, but to these idiots they performed genocides

You keep comparing yourselves to jewish people in germany. WTF- Germans first presented propaganda materials against jewish people suggesting that they are different from them, lower than humans, subhuman , and a threat to their civilization. Then there was deliberate attacks on jewish neighborhoods or ghettos as they were called. Then germany attacked eastern europe (where a sizable number of jews lived at). The Germans, made the jews have a curfew, wear special clothes that identified them as jews, kept them in a specific area- but the nigerian government did little to none of these despite the fact that they were at a war with the igbos.

When all men and boys above the age of 10 are wiped out in a region, does that qualify as genocide? No one can hide the fact of that incident in the current Delta state. There were others all over other areas of the East. The victims were flesh and blood humans, many still alive today.

I really see this current throwing under the carpet of lingering war issues as 100% cowardice. The issues are there, deal with them.
We need to be very careful when we say certain things of the cuff, lest our voices becomes tools for the propagation of evil.

@dede1

The fundamental basic human rights of southern Nigerians in the northern region of Nigeria as of 1966 were not guaranteed that regional government of the north and federal government of Nigeria had to degree that all non-indigenes should return to their respective home regions. At least, by her admission, the pogrom and lack of guarantee for basic fundamental human rights in northern region for non-indigenes of the region were makers of secession.

your whole sentence structure is messed up . Also you are not making sense And i don't think b4 writing sebi

It is a person such as lady SEFAGO that makes secession a thing of cantankerous and war. In layman’s term secession is breakaway from a nation state. If a lesson has to be learnt about the intrigue of secession as exemplified by the secession movement since the fall of iron curtain in some communist countries, I guess you and your forbearers have secured a front row seats in such a class.

Another idiot. The political climate of the soviet union and nigeria are totally different. Stop comparing the two. It is rare to meet a yoruba/hausa person who thinks he or she is fundamentally better than an igbo. They just want people who are from the same tribe as them to be in top positions. You keep comparing yourselves to the wrong kind of people mate. you are making a category mistake, the russians see themselves as racially different to the other ethnic minorities, and a more superior race- except for onlytruth, i doubt many nigerians see themselves as racially different from each other, culturally yes but racially no

When all men and boys above the age of 10 are wiped out in a region, does that qualify as genocide?

If they were specifically targeted, like if some superior officer, who got his orders from the nigerian government, gave the order to his officers that these children under 10 should be targeted so as to prevent the continuation of their line/tribe yes. However if this was just a mere occurrence of war no.

SEFAGO:

If they were specifically targeted, like if some superior officer, who got his orders from the nigerian government, gave the order to his officers that these children under 10 should be targeted so as to prevent the continuation of their line/tribe yes. However if this was just a mere occurrence of war no.

Find out about it then, before making terrible statements.

Where on this Earth have you heard that the excecution of 10 year olds "was just a mere occurrence of war"? You need to step back and think before picking up your megaphone, it makes you look really foolish (at the very least).
Regardless of if you are 15 or 70 years old, you shouldn't get into arguments without applying wisdom. Wisdom is a precious pearl, strive to acquire it.

SEFAGO:

There are stages of genocides. If you really know what a genocide means (despite my young age, I have been involved in human right organizations since I was 16)- the stages of genocide according to political scientists are (1) classification, (2) symbolization, (3) dehumanization, (4) organization, (5) polarization, (6) preparation, (7) extermination and ( denial

The nigerian government did not even initiate stage 1, but to these idiots they performed genocides

There are stages of genocides. If you really know what a genocide means.
That is an expert in torture lecturing! Go on my son we are listening.

despite my young age,
The only sensible contribution you have through out this discussion.

I have been involved in human right organizations since I was 16.
Any human right organization you belong to must have Ahmanejad as chairman, Bin Ladin as its secretary and Hitler as it patron saint. I hope they are aware that you glorifies rape, that you believed that the women victims deserved it. Your mother/sisters must be proud.

the stages of genocide according to political scientists are (1) classification, (2) symbolization, (3) dehumanization, (4) organization, (5) polarization, (6) preparation, (7) extermination and ( denial
You reminds me of the Neo Nazi skin heads in modern Europe. They are still in denial.

The Nigerian government did not even initiate stage 1, but to these idiots they performed genocides.
I thought that you wasn’t even born then, suddenly, You are no longer young and inexperience.

Find out about it then, before making terrible statements.

Where on this Earth have you heard that the excecution of 10 year olds "was just a mere occurrence of war"? You need to step back and think before picking up your megaphone, it makes you look really foolish (at the very least).
Regardless of if you are 15 or 70 years old, you shouldn't get into arguments without applying wisdom. Wisdom is a precious pearl, strive to aqcuire it.

. In war terrible things happen. The execution of people of whatever age, and whatever gender is inevitable. soldiers fighting a war are under pressure, psychologically and physocally, and when they crack- they dont think over what they are doing. No mate, i have given up hope on you guys, that is what comes with poor education, the inability to understand human behavior.

Be stuck in your little world. I can't help you. To those in lagos yapping their mouths online- dont let the agberos see what you are writing ooo

have been involved in human right organizations since I was 16.
Any human right organization you belong to must have Ahmanejad as chairman, Bin Ladin as its secretary and Hitler as it patron saint. I hope they are aware that you glorifies rape, that you believed that the women victims deserved it. Your mother mother/sisters must be proud.

I dont glorify rape and killing mate. I just said it is an inevitable consequence of war.

despite my young age,
The only sensible contribution you have through out this discussion.

I think what you want is someone to agree with everything you save even to it is infactual and a lie. And the only people who are going to lie with you anyways are igbos and to some extent niger deltans. So sorry for crashing your party.

And we wonder why nigeria will not develop.

@ SEFAGO

Lady SAFEGO, I honestly think that your idiocy is irredeemable. You are simply making a slowpoke out of your irascible self. Please be informed that Ojukwu did not attend RMA Sandhurst, UK.

It appears that you were not properly schooled in the subject of history. If you did and still come up with these conjectural craps you have been posting on this forum, I suggest that efforts your parents showered on you were in futility.

Lady SAFEGO of the United Nation caliber, do you realize that there is only one race in the universe? I am of the view that the intrigues of this discussion are well above your pedigree. I shell not waste my precious time on a stinking road-kill such as you. For an umpteenth time, the 1966 pogrom that took place in northern region of Nigeria was genocidal.