jchioma:
Dear Brethren, in Exodus 4:22 God Himself said, "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn". And in John 3:16, a mere man by the name of John said: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". Who are we to believe?. I love God and want to serve Him according to His way, and not by the concoctions of men. I want to believe God ONLY, but will I go to hell for not believing in Jesus as I doubt his story? Bible scholars should please me out. Thank you.

the old testament has got nothing to do with the new testament, they are basically two contradicting ideologies and belief systems..the Jews that wrote the old testament dont call it that name, it is called the Tanakha..and to them it contains their belief. it was the Romans(christian) that came centuries later when they conquered the ancient world and stole it Jewish writings during the war of 70AD. they called their own ''the new testimonies' and added it to the Jewish writings to give it some backings..
according to the Jews, God is responsible for both good and evil, the devil only does what God has approved for him to do..Isaiah 45 :7, Lamentation 3:38.. the messiah the Jews are waiting for is a mortal man that will liberate them from their enemies around them. they do not have the idea of God mating with women, that is a Greek and Roman ideology..where you have Zeus and Poseidon mating with mortal beings..i guess you have watched the clash of the titans...

The Jews recognize the existence of other Gods, but choose to worship one of the lots, reason being that this particular God chose them as Israel was his Heritage, and he calls Israel his first born son(Deuteronomy 32:7)he punishes them when they misbehave and blesses them when they are loyal, the Jesus story is complete bull sheet..

ollah1:


How come same people of Isreal killed Jesus? How come there are very few Christians in Isreal as against Muslims and Jews?






1

This your question sef e get as e be.

sonmvayina:
The Jews recognize the existence of other Gods, but choose to worship one of the lots, reason being that this particular God chose them as Israel was his Heritage, and he calls Israel his first born son(Deuteronomy 32:7)he punishes them when they misbehave and blesses them when they are loyal, the Jesus story is complete bull sheet..

The Jesus story is part of the Jewish story, it is the story of Israel's messaiah, read Isaiah 53. Read more my friend, would you?

Danhumprey:
my brother, you don't get it. we're not worshipping Jesus, rather we are worshipping God through Jesus Christ, who is the Way to the Father, Almighty God. Jesus Christ and the Father are one, so it follows that if we're worshipping God,we're also worshipping Jesus.

Idol worshippers also profess to the worship of the Creator through their idols. If we truly believe that our Creator is close to us, omniscient and omnipresent, the need to worship him THROUGH any being comes to naughts.

Believing in Jesus as a God-sent teacher and a perfect role model through whom we should learn to worship God, the Creator, is different from considering Jesus an intermediate god, God's intermediary, or God Himself.

God is one, jealous.

Pity I got into this thread rather late.
I thank the OP for this provocative subject. In my personal interactions with a muslim sister, my mind has been opened wider to some deep truths. Although I haven't gotten around to confronting her with the truth (I'm hoping she would be hit with the realities just the same way our exchanges have helped me).

A few things have become clear:
1. most serious muslims seem to know more about the letters of the Bible than the average christian;
2. the average muslim takes religion more seriously than the average christian (hence hard - like the Judaist of the old testament)
3. the Quor'an seem to be an imitation of the literal content of the Old testament
4. no Muslim dares deny the spiritual authority of Jesus - the worst they can go is deny his Godship.

In order to reconcile the genuine muslims to the truth about Christ, I want to make clear some of the confusion they have about Jesus Christ:

The name Jesus, is the name of man, hence the muslims are some what correct to say he is not God. He was just a human image or reflection of God, like you and I. His level of human capacity qualify him as a Prophet as the muslims claim. But as a human, he was much more that a Prophet (He was also a Doctor, Teacher/Rabbi, Pastor/Shepherd, Priest, etc)

Jesus came to earth to live with us humans to diagnose our human malady. He came as Christ (Saviour). His mandate was captured in the Book of
Luke Chapter 4, verse 18&19[b] …18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” 20Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him,… [/b] THis is comparable to the scripture in Isaiah Chapter 61 verse 1 -3.

The easiest way to explain the duality/duplicity of the personality of Jesus Christ to anyone who has not studied the Bible or read through from start to finish is to consider that he was a normal man just like you and I, on earth. But before this, he emerged from God, directly, pure without sin. This was why we had to merge with humanity by coming through the womb. Then he obtained the power of God (His Spirit of Holiness) through Baptism. What this does is to give any man who obtain the same gift to have the ability to be exactly as God.

After completing His mission on earth, He returned to be with his father (by the spirit). Then the man called Jesus, had His name elevated among men in His confirmation as Christ the Saviour, due to His obedience and submission to the will of God. This is why He warned that there is no other name by which men shall be saved. He is the only one who up to date has warned that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Muslims have been misled to think God has no son. Even ordinary me, I am a Son of God and joint heir with Jesus. All true believers are sons of God and gods unto ordinary men! God made Moses/Musa to become a God to the then almighty Pharaoh.

In my opinion, most serious muslims should score higher in the religion realm, but are limited in capacity due to the absence of the Holy Spirit. They operate by the letters of the Law (which kills/limits) rather than the spirit of the Law (which liberates and render unlimited)

Also in my opinion, most christians DO ABUSE the liberty that they have in Christ, thereby denying the power of the Holy Spirit to make them unlimited. This is the crux of the matter and the confusion we have between these two principal religion in Nigeria today.

It is virtually impossible to explain these issues in full within the limits of this forum, so I will understand anyone who may be confused. But I pray for all who would be saved that The Almighty God, creator of Heavens and the Earth, most benevolent and merciful, will reveal His truth to all who are worthy of His Salvation.

Yes, but you'll meet Christ at the gate to test and examine your credentials and issue you VISA to enter. You'll

Matican:


Idol worshippers also profess to the worship of the Creator through their idols. If we truly believe that our Creator is close to us, omniscient and omnipresent, the need to worship him THROUGH any being comes to naughts.

Believing in Jesus as a God-sent teacher and a perfect role model through whom we should learn to worship God, the Creator, is different from considering Jesus an intermediate god, God's intermediary, or God Himself.

God is one, jealous.

You don't understand, jesus even told the Jews he is greater than the temple( if you know what that means).
Yes Jesus is human but he believed his action and his works were that of God incarnate. The lord himself has personally visited his people to save them. This is why the new testament authors exalted Jesus like they would exalt God. This is not about a certain trinity or nature of God, it is about the role of Jesus in the history of Isreal and the world at large, showing that he is no mere messenger or prophet.

jchioma:
Dear Brethren, in Exodus 4:22 God Himself said, "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn". And in John 3:16, a mere man by the name of John said: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". Who are we to believe?. I love God and want to serve Him according to His way, and not by the concoctions of men. I want to believe God ONLY, but will I go to hell for not believing in Jesus as I doubt his story? Bible scholars should please me out. Thank you.

. This is so amusing but serious anyway but listen,the Almighty God from the beginning exulted himself above all and the richness of his wisdom was in his spirit.thence it is written, those who worship God must worship him in spirit and truth.spirit here refers to God and truth refers to Jesus Christ who upheld the law of God.
He bears witness to God,and there is no guilt in him.the quotation you which u said in exodus stands,because every word of God is irrevocable.plz don't ask me quotations.
Israel is the first son of God refers to tribe which he chose here on earth or the tribe of his heritage and the very dream which Jacob saw when he fled from the wrath of his brother Esau is the the reflection of what is now happening.(Angels descending and ascending to heaven) from this tribe or Israel as a son came all the great men of God written in the scripture including the great man of God by name Moses(Moshe) the David,the prophets even Jesus Christ.they all were spirit before being born by men here on earth thus they became man with the names you heard.nowis the ascending time behold Jesus Christwas the first to ascend.
Do notforget that Israel sin against God,again God created darkness and light,woe and even the enemy.so among Israelites you notice that many are evil.in the book of job,when the son's of God gathered devil was there.so be free to follow God.I will stop here for now but in summary,Jesus Christ is the spirit made flesh,the first to ascend or the first fruit of the dead or earth.in Isaiah God called out the son's of Jacob who are born in him(God) saying that he will save them by him self,he bear and will carry them even in old age or in grey hairs.so therefore if you believe in the law and the prophets,you have no reason to ask about the man Jesus Christ.thanks

orunto27:
Yes, but you'll meet Christ at the gate to test and examine your credentials and issue you VISA to enter. You'll

You mean there's another Christ Embassy?

CXLVII:




How did you believe this fictions! A word manifesting into flesh.....

Why did you not research about how water entered coconut or propably search for the beginning of the ocean

John 14:6...Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life, no one can come unto the father (God) except by me.

[color=#000099][/color]Believing God only but not Jesus Christ is like a "man dat want to Sleep without closing his eyes".... Verily I say unto you..No man shall see Lord without Him(Jesus)..

femicyrus:

since all you want is a statement from God for you to believe in Jesus then take it:
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

where was it written in the bible that the voice is the voice of God. more over its written in the bible that no one can hear the voice of God.

jboy01:
where was it written in the bible that the voice is the voice of God. more over its written in the bible that no one can hear the voice of God.

Na wa o! So if nor be voice of God na voice of Devil?

HomoDroid:
Pity I got into this thread rather late.
I thank the OP for this provocative subject. In my personal interactions with a muslim sister, my mind has been opened wider to some deep truths. Although I haven't gotten around to confronting her with the truth (I'm hoping she would be hit with the realities just the same way our exchanges have helped me).

A few things have become clear:
1. most serious muslims seem to know more about the letters of the Bible than the average christian;
2. the average muslim takes religion more seriously than the average christian (hence hard - like the Judaist of the old testament)
3. the Quor'an seem to be an imitation of the literal content of the Old testament
4. no Muslim dares deny the spiritual authority of Jesus - the worst they can go is deny his Godship.

In order to reconcile the genuine muslims to the truth about Christ, I want to make clear some of the confusion they have about Jesus Christ:

The name Jesus, is the name of man, hence the muslims are some what correct to say he is not God. He was just a human image or reflection of God, like you and I. His level of human capacity qualify him as a Prophet as the muslims claim. But as a human, he was much more that a Prophet (He was also a Doctor, Teacher/Rabbi, Pastor/Shepherd, Priest, etc)

Jesus came to earth to live with us humans to diagnose our human malady. He came as Christ (Saviour). His mandate was captured in the Book of
Luke Chapter 4, verse 18&19[b] …18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” 20Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him,… [/b] THis is comparable to the scripture in Isaiah Chapter 61 verse 1 -3.

The easiest way to explain the duality/duplicity of the personality of Jesus Christ to anyone who has not studied the Bible or read through from start to finish is to consider that he was a normal man just like you and I, on earth. But before this, he emerged from God, directly, pure without sin. This was why we had to merge with humanity by coming through the womb. Then he obtained the power of God (His Spirit of Holiness) through Baptism. What this does is to give any man who obtain the same gift to have the ability to be exactly as God.

After completing His mission on earth, He returned to be with his father (by the spirit). Then the man called Jesus, had His name elevated among men in His confirmation as Christ the Saviour, due to His obedience and submission to the will of God. This is why He warned that there is no other name by which men shall be saved. He is the only one who up to date has warned that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Muslims have been misled to think God has no son. Even ordinary me, I am a Son of God and joint heir with Jesus. All true believers are sons of God and gods unto ordinary men! God made Moses/Musa to become a God to the then almighty Pharaoh.

In my opinion, most serious muslims should score higher in the religion realm, but are limited in capacity due to the absence of the Holy Spirit. They operate by the letters of the Law (which kills/limits) rather than the spirit of the Law (which liberates and render unlimited)

Also in my opinion, most christians DO ABUSE the liberty that they have in Christ, thereby denying the power of the Holy Spirit to make them unlimited. This is the crux of the matter and the confusion we have between these two principal religion in Nigeria today.

It is virtually impossible to explain these issues in full within the limits of this forum, so I will understand anyone who may be confused. But I pray for all who would be saved that The Almighty God, creator of Heavens and the Earth, most benevolent and merciful, will reveal His truth to all who are worthy of His Salvation.

Baptism makes you exactly like God? Even John the Baptist who baptized many was never like God. Nothing makes you like God. Jesus wept, unlike God.

I would've said you blasphemed, buh u stated repeatedly it's ur opinion. So, it is what it is.

You wear glass..

kilo4sure:

Na wa o! So if nor be voice of God na voice of Devil?

the possibility of the voice being voice of God to the voice of another being is 1:1 man. the bible didn't state it a the voice of God. so don't attach the voice to God.

Hello Sis,

Kindly find below an information l got via this site (www.biblestudytools.com):

"Frequently employed in the Bible in the literal sense of offspring, "firstborn" acquired metaphorical applications over time. Two such New Testament uses, as a term for the church and as a title for Christ, are theologically significant.

The firstborn son in patriarchal society was regarded as special ( Gen 49:3 ; Exod 13:2 ). He became the head of the family upon his father's death, having received his father's blessing ( Gen 27 ) and a double portion of the inheritance ( Deut 21:17 ).

After the Passover event in Egypt, every firstborn male belonged to God. This implied priestly duties, an obligation later transferred to the Levites ( Num 8:14-19 ).

Of special significance is the divine claim that Israel was God's firstborn ( Exod 4:22-23 ). This signified Israel's favored status among the nations to be in covenant relationship with God. But it also meant Israel had a priestly function to perform as God's saving light to Gentile peoples.

In the Book of Hebrews the author appears to call Christians "firstborn ones" (prototokon) in virtue of their relationship to Christ, whom he has already called the "firstborn" (prototokon) in 1:6. Through him they have been "enrolled in heaven."

The context of Hebrews 12:18-29 gives substance to this expression as a term for Christians. The spiritual nature of the church is underscored. "Mount Zion" is a "heavenly Jerusalem, " a "city of the living God" (v. 22) contrasted both to Mount Sinai where the Law was given (vv. 18-21) and to the earthly Jerusalem and its temple worship.

Christian life and worship occur in a spiritual community that includes God, angels, and human beings (vv. 22-24). The hosts of angels are in festal array, reminiscent of their task of worshiping the Son brought into the world for human redemption ( 1:6 ), rather than as the mediators of the Law during the awesome display at Mount Sinai. The church is composed not only of present earthly believers but also of the "spirits of just persons who have been made perfect." This latter expression likely refers to the Old Testament faithful who could not reach completion until the Christian dispensation ( 11:40 ); these now comprise the cloud of witnesses who applaud the race of the earthly Christians ( 12:1 ). The "church of the firstborn" does not displace faithful Israel, but joins with them in perfect worship to God through the mediation of Christ.

The "church of the firstborn" lives in humility, gratitude, and awe (vv. 26-29), for in Christ they have received a kingdom that will endure the judgment of the eschaton. Christ has given them both the gift of his salvation and the obligation to be his priestly community among unbelieving peoples ( Heb 13 ).

Christ is called God's "firstborn" in Hebrews 1:6. This is a metaphorical use of the term and does not imply that Christ merely was created prior to other beings or the world in general. Rather it connotes his special status as the unique Son of God.

Luke L. Keefer, Jr."



I hope this clarifies and eliminates the doubts that's prevalent in your heart. There's difference between the phrases that specified Israel as a nation being "my firstborn", and Christ's being the "only begotten Son" of God. Enjoy your weekend and stay blessed!

jchioma:
Dear Brethren, in Exodus 4:22 God Himself said, "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn". And in John 3:16, a mere man by the name of John said: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". Who are we to believe?. I love God and want to serve Him according to His way, and not by the concoctions of men. I want to believe God ONLY, but will I go to hell for not believing in Jesus as I doubt his story? Bible scholars should please me out. Thank you.

Yes! You will go to hell if you don't accept the work of redemption done by Jesus.

In order to be saved, you must believe that Jesus is the son of God and must confess Jesus is Lord over your life.

Asking questions about this issue in nairaland will not lead you to heaven. You may end up more confused than you started.

Being saved and walking in the light of salvation is a life time activity and not a one off event.

I will recommend that you attend the closest Christ Embassy Church near you. You will be thought the right Word of God in accordance with the Bible and you will also be natured to grow till you become a matured Christian.

Selah!

jboy01:
where was it written in the bible that the voice is the voice of God. more over its written in the bible that no one can hear the voice of God.

why didn't you question the account of moses in Exodus as stated by the op

bunch of hypocrites parading themselves... kontinue.. issorite

analice107:

Only a fool will take you serious.

"You'll be the last person to malign Christ if He is real".

He is not real, why not go on with what is real to you.



AGAIN, NO SERIOUS MINDED CHRISTIAN SHOULD RESPOND TO THIS IGNORAMUS.

Blind Man,not everyone will see the light there is valid room for an arguement you can't always look at life and the world in general from your myopic point of view. There were established religions way before Abraham founded judaism of which christianity is a sect,no one is doubting there is a superior force most religions worship (Jehovah,Allah)in Nigeria and the question is that superior force Jesus Christ or there is another oga at the top?in the transfiguration Paul I believe saw Jesus sitted at the right side of Jehovah with Abraham and Moses looking on.

kilo4sure:

You don't understand, jesus even told the Jews he is greater than the temple( if you know what that means).
Yes Jesus is human but he believed his action and his works were that of God incarnate. The lord himself has personally visited his people to save them. This is why the new testament authors exalted Jesus like they would exalt God. This is not about a certain trinity or nature of God, it is about the role of Jesus in the history of Isreal and the world at large, showing that he is no mere messenger or prophet.

Jesus prayed, God answered. But exalting Jesus like they would God is quite grave going by these:

So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me” (John 7:16)

“I came not of my own accord, but he sent me” (John 8:42)

“I tell you the truth, no SERVANT is greater than his MASTER, nor is a MESSENGER greater than the one who sent him” (John 13:16)

“Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work” (John 4:34)

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak” (John 12:49)

So, Jesus feeling and acknowledging his miracles as God's work and his declaration of servitude to God should warn us enough not to exalt him to equality to God.

jchioma:
Dear Brethren, in Exodus 4:22 God Himself said, "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn". And in John 3:16, a mere man by the name of John said: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". Who are we to believe?. I love God and want to serve Him according to His way, and not by the concoctions of men. I want to believe God ONLY, but will I go to hell for not believing in Jesus as I doubt his story? Bible scholars should please me out. Thank you.

Firstly, the Bible is Jesus according to the Christains so yhu cant be searching the Bible for conviction to believe in God and not Jesus. But lets think about it The presence of a Divine,Supreme being is a widespread doctrine in all religions of the world and thats the only being present in all religions. Personally I believe in God but not Jesus. My innocent opinion tho....

jchioma:


So, when I believe in God base on the finality of His word, as in Isaiah 45: 22-23, but doubt the advent of Jesus, due to the contradictions of his origin steeped in Babylonian religious practices which debunks God's stand, I am doomed?

If you have really read the book of Isaiah like you said you would have known that even prophet Isaiah spoke of Jesus coming. so go back and read the bible very well.

Matican:


Jesus prayed, God answered. But exalting Jesus like they would God is quite grave going by these:

So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me” (John 7:16)

“I came not of my own accord, but he sent me” (John 8:42)

“I tell you the truth, no SERVANT is greater than his MASTER, nor is a MESSENGER greater than the one who sent him” (John 13:16)

“Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work” (John 4:34)

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak” (John 12:49)

So, Jesus feeling and acknowledging his miracles as God's work and his declaration of servitude to God should warn us enough not to exalt him to equality to God.

Thank you,New Testament followers he has proven to you Jesus is not Jehovah or Yahweh. The old testament which is part of the Torah told the Hebrews that God is not a man and cannot be flesh and blood and for jesus to insinuate he was the messiah was a treasonable offence to the jews punishable with the death penalty which your ancestors begged the romans to implement on Jesus, hypocrite Pharisees.

hopefulLandlord:


I'm curious though

why didn't you add Muhammad?

The rapist?

Na question I ask oh

Matican:


Jesus prayed, God answered. But exalting Jesus like they would God is quite grave going by these:

So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me” (John 7:16)

“I came not of my own accord, but he sent me” (John 8:42)

“I tell you the truth, no SERVANT is greater than his MASTER, nor is a MESSENGER greater than the one who sent him” (John 13:16)

“Jesus said to them, ‘My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work” (John 4:34)

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak” (John 12:49)

So, Jesus feeling and acknowledging his miracles as God's work and his declaration of servitude to God should warn us enough not to exalt him to equality to God.

Yes God sent him, but sent him to do what? The task he came to carry out makes him special. It is properly outlined in Luke 4v18 and in line with what the prophets said Yahweh would do. Remember at the name of Jesus every knee must bow and every tongue must confess his lordship. These are not words spoken of a mere messenger rather the early Christians saw Christ as the true Emperor( in that culture, Caesar was not just a man, he was god who brought peace to Rome). Christ Jesus then is said to be the true lord at which a proclamation of his name causes every knee to bow in worship. How do you explain all these from the worldview of the new testament authors?

Auki:
Worship God alone not Jesus or any other creatures.

Believe that Jesus, Noah, Abraham, Muhammad, Mosses(peace be on them all) etc are human being sent by God. They are to be obeyed not worship.

That is the right religion.

bt u still pray in jesus name,,i bet u dnt knw wat it is

jchioma:


All the quotations you have given above are from the same John. Does that not contradict the Almighty's statement as I quoted in Exodus 4:22?

Where you read in exodus has nothing to do with the verses the other person quoted in John neither is it talking about salvation. God cannot contradict himself. John 3:16 is the answer to your question.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 KJV

Remember that Jesus has existed even before our creation

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 KJV

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14 KJV