paxonel:

What do you mean by spirit?
We are talking about intellectual issues here. Obviously it appears that freeze is more intelligent than most of these pastors, that's all.
No point spiritualising everything

Even the though you thought you were making sense...

The fact that you think this is an intellectual discussion not a spiritual one means one thing ing. Your either a baby spiritually or are dead

The things of the spirit are foolishness to them that are of the flesh

Take it or leave it freeze is just deceiving people...about vthings he knows nothing about...it's people whose heart were not with God on the onset that are led astray

My word to him is: it's better not to have been born or a stone hewn around an individual and he's thrown into the sea, than for those that lead people away from Christ

GoldNiagara:



You left an incompetent,murderous, irresponsible government and want to be asking the church Questions, continue interrogator.

You don't ask questions on social media, write the requisite authorities, and stop peddling out right fibs, half truth and pure concoction of an over stimulated mind.

I thought they said the church was an influential institution.About the government everybody is a part of the government so it is our collective responsibility and during elections we would always vote out a bad govern or do you support a revolution.The church is not too big to be asked questions just as government is accountable to the people.The people who write to the authorities also use social media it is part of the machinery used as a platform for the people to voice their displeasure against government irresponsibility and "our mumu don do movement" is an example.You criticize government either through protest,social media or any other form which Niger are a part of.

church denomination is wrong and God isn't going to redeem his people by denomination but by his word, so church having branches is more like a business rather than reaching out to the people.
forget about church and focus on the word of God. Even the Antichrist will come from within the church. A kingdom that stands against itself shall fall.............

For those saying Christ came to abolish the law of etc so don't pay tithe etc...don't be ignorant

Tithe existed before the law of Moses...it started with Abraham

But the things of the lord are foolishness to them that are perishing..... tithing isnt an intellectual discourse but a spiritual one...

For freezer and his cohort Mathew 18 vs 7is for you

danvon:
The simple fact that most of his supporters here on nairaland aren't Christians says a lot about him

Gbam Gbam Gbam

Truth is never a popular with people of the world

It's sin, lust and material things that are very dear to them....

Your comments have summarised the whole matter
The folly of a freeze is living with another man's wife ooo

Nasa28:


So why aren't you keeping every law of Moses ? You choose the one that appeals to ur heart and leave the remaining.

Your ignorant

Moses didn't start tithe

I'll leave you to go discover if your really interested go and read your people

AkpaMgbor:

Exactly the point I made a few weeks back here on nairaland...the tithing issue isn’t what freeze and his ilk are really after...that is just a decoy, their main aim is the church and everything the church represents..which is holiness, freedom, joy, peace, wealth and LOVE...

My friend what is a church? 'A place of worship' yes Deuteronomy 12:5. Is it necessarily a building every Christian must visit? No. Alternative location?, yes the mind/heart of you and i( infact its the first choice) John 4:20-23. What is Daddy freeze attacking?. Possibly the mind of those been brainwashed within the walls of a building.
What did Jesus say about the physical structure or worship centres? Same John 4:20-23 could help us. Then what is the relevance of these structures? A place where we can visit at will to reason together Isaiah 1:18.

Further more the gathering can possibly take place at any property Deuteronomy 16:16, Luke 24:52-53, Matthew 18:20. The disciples were known for gathering at an upper room mentioned in Acts 1, the Shavrout also known as the Pentecost occurred in Acts 2; at oikos Greek word for house; which could have been the upper room or other rooms in the temple at Jerusalem or some other location. The central argument here is the bible hasn't commanded that the meeting place must be the property labeled as church. In conclusion i believe the heart is where the spirit and presence of God comes to dwell. The physical structures are centres we can go and reason together or fellowship promoting all you mentioned as what the church represents.

If many Christians can find time to do personal research on what is a church; I think it will come to us naturally that tithing, first fruits and animal sacrifices for atonement are rooted in Abrahamic/mosaic law/Judaism of the old testament outdated to Christians and modified by Jesus in the new testament. He emphasised on free will giving instead Matthew 19:21, Matthew 25:42, Mark 12:41-44. As further explained by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13; the offerings, seed of faith, the miracles and biblical orientation that church brings are insignificant to the love towards one another that God requires from us. This love shouldn't be mistaken for the eye-service and charity displays in the media, it ought to come from the heart/mind where God wrote the new commandments in Deuteronomy 6:6 and in relation to Davids prayer in psalms 51. If that love which is in us is genuine we will be slow to judge and abuse another human as an agent of the devil because of his views against our faith/doctrine.

While i will encourage fellowship with others in our spare times, i stand on the point that God is spirit and as John 4-23 illustrates not church goers but true worshippers to worship him in spirit and in truth; may the Holy spirit our comforter and teacher continue to pass the grace of sound mind and courage to be free from mental slavery.

Thank you.

AkpaMgbor:

Exactly the point I made a few weeks back here on nairaland...the tithing issue isn’t what freeze and his ilk are really after...that is just a decoy, their main aim is the church and everything the church represents..which is holiness, freedom, joy, peace, wealth and LOVE...

The question is "is he right on the tithing issue?"

What the church represents is tithe?

paxonel:

Freeze has been asking the question where in the bible were christians compelled to pay tithe was any pastor able to answer that?

Bro pls nothing in d scripture is compulsory,not even heaven or salvation.
They only hv deir rewards (blessings and curses).
HV u asked urself y freeze is not speaking abt heaven Nd holiness which is priority,BT rather abt material tinz.

paxonel:

And the pastors do not see enough bible verse to counter his numerous verses? The implication of this is that, a lot of people have already started abandoning tithing.
If it is giving they are ready to give.
But tithing, no again

To whose detriment?.
Nothing stops d will of God from coming to pass,u can only ignorantly quench ur reward.

paxonel:

Freeze has been asking the question where in the bible were christians compelled to pay tithe was any pastor able to answer that?

Hebrews 7:5

jeruzi:
The General Oversea sorry, leader of the free the sheep movement has become so vocal againt men of God.
Freeze has condemned so many things in the Church, stating that they are wrong from tithe, to giving to pastors, to gathering together, to stating that love is all you need to make heaven, he forgot or doesn't know or maybe has ceased to believe that one needs to confess Jesus as personal Lord and Saviour.
Not just these, he went further to condemn Church reaching out to the world by having branches there, a thing Jesus commanded and the apostles did.
The truth is that the smallest doctrine of daddy freeze (leaven) is dangerous to any believer.

He has through subtle means deceived many just has the serpent deceived Eve.
Lie + Truth=Deception
The Scripture has it in Jude1:8-16
16. These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lust; and they mount great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage.
Only those that want to be deceived will allow it until they are taken away.

Keep ur confusion to ur self, Stop dragging others to it.

To those who saying Freeze is basically an agent of Satan on a mission to destroy the church...... shouldn't your anointed/blessed MOG know this? If they don't know then they are not of God. If they know...then why don't they speak up and use the Bible to show that Freeze is a liar and a deceiver? Why are they soooo silent?...so fearful of confronting Freeze? How can MOG be cowards when it comes to defending Biblical issues? Why?

Mariangeles:
Why do you have to be like this?
are there no sane people on nairaland anymore except me? only people filled with bitterness and hate.
You were doing well until you got to the insult part...change your mindset, it will do you some good.
When you decide to be a better person, respecting other people and their opinion, you'll be disgusted at yourself for being the way you are right now.
Don't go with the trend on nairaland, choose to be different...Thanks

lol...your personality is disgusting and u are trying so hard to be Christian...Too hard because it's not easy compressing all those hate therein...

U are an hypocrite just like the rest of your kind...If truly u respect other people opinions u wouldn't write me that nonsense except you wanted to be paradoxical....

Stop irritating me with your deception forming lux when u know u are just SODA just like the rest...Doom's day candidates..

paxonel:

And the pastors do not see enough bible verse to counter his numerous verses? The implication of this is that, a lot of people have already started abandoning tithing.
If it is giving they are ready to give.
But tithing, no again

Young man nothing in christiandom is under compulsion. Everybody chooses whether to believe or not. If tithing is a law and i choose to believe and work in it to God be the glory. Jesus did not come to abolish the law. In fact as christians we are even suppose to live beyond the dictates of the law including tithing. So you can even give more than the 10%.

Ladyhippolyta88:
I thought they said the church was an influential institution.About the government everybody is a part of the government so it is our collective responsibility and during elections we would always vote out a bad govern or do you support a revolution.The church is not too big to be asked questions just as government is accountable to the people.The people who write to the authorities also use social media it is part of the machinery used as a platform for the people to voice their displeasure against government irresponsibility and "our mumu don do movement" is an example.You criticize government either through protest,social media or any other form which Niger are a part of.

You do not have the right or justification to criticise the church. you know why, you do not appoint them, you elected your government officials, but you do not elect the church, they are arbitrarily appointed by God and others their stomachs! Besides who gives you the authority to criticise anybody. Submit yourself for scrutiny if we will not have the thousand irregularities to criticise.

If you think you are a mumu and your mumu don do, then get the hell out of the church. It is intolerance to talk down on other people's beliefs and superimpose you version of correctness on others.

A lot of Nigerians and you inclusive, with jaundice views, run with mutilated facts as truth and further denature it to suit their convenience. I do not agree with islam but that does not give me the right to talk down on them.

You arm chair critics of the church, you use a tar of one corrupt individual to paint the whole church. That is just stupendously and hideously stupid stupidity.

paxonel:

That is a lie o,
Even if it is true that there is always a spirit backing every move such spirit was made null and void the moment you are a christian.
A scripture says whosever be in Christ is a new creature.
When Jesus was ascending he says ALL POWER(including powers belonging to spirits) has been given to you.
That means you are the one controlling spirits not spirits controlling you
Even if freeze is not right he is the one making the error, not any spirit behind him.
And truly, no judge in any court of law will blame any spirit for the atrocity commited by any convict.
We all have to take responsibility for our actions.

So, any christian running to churches for deliverance and any pastor conducting deliverance are all deceiving themselves.

I may tell you humans life control in the rain of spirit,I tell you.

The false doctrine of monetary tithing is a scam pro-tithers are not willing to admit until their Pastorpreneurs confess to it.

I HAVE ASKED THEM TO SHOW ME ONE SCRIPTURE WHERE TITHE IS PAID IN GOLD AND SILVER (MONEY)...Nothing scriptural whatsoever to back it up.

I did some research on how tithes were handled in Jewish History, and this was done on agro-products, not even the glorious era of Solomon changed it from agro-products and livestock to gold and silver!

My subsequent posts are extracted from Wikipedia which in turn drew it sources from the Torah and other ancient Jewish texts alongside the Bible too.

Tithes in Judaism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Tithing in the Temple
The tithe is specifically mentioned in the Books of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The tithe system was organized in a seven-year cycle, the seventh-year corresponding to the Shemittah-cycle in which year tithes were broken-off, and in every third and sixth-year of this cycle the Second tithe replaced with the Poor man's tithe. These tithes were in reality more like taxes for the people of Israel and were mandatory, not optional giving. This tithe was distributed locally "within thy gates" (Deuteronomy 14:28) to support the Levites and assist the poor. Every year, Bikkurim, Terumah, Ma'aser Rishon and Terumat Ma'aser were separated from the grain, wine and oil (Deuteronomy 14:22). Initially, the commandment to separate tithes from one's produce only applied when the entire nation of Israel had settled in the Land of Israel. The Returnees from the Babylonian exile who had resettled the country were a Jewish minority, and who, although they were not obligated to tithe their produce, put themselves under a voluntary bind to do so, and which practice became obligatory upon all.

Terumah (Heave-offering)
The first obligation that was incumbent upon an Israelite or Jew was to separate from his harvested grain (wheat, barley, spelt, etc.), wine (including unpressed grapes) and oil (including unpressed olives) the one-fiftieth portion of these products (or one-fortieth, if he were a man of generosity; and one-sixtieth if he were stingy) and to give the same to a man of Aaron's lineage (priestly stock), who, in turn, would eat such fruits in a state of ritual cleanness, in accordance with a biblical command, "...and let him not eat of the holy things, until he bathes his flesh in water. And when the sun goes down down, he will be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things because it is his food" (Leviticus 22:6). This obligation was contingent upon the fact that such fruits grew in the Land of Israel. Later, the Rabbis made it an obligation to do the same for all fruits and vegetables grown in the Land of Israel, and not only to such fruits as grain, grapes and olives. With the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of ritual purity, the obligation to separate the Terumah continued unabated, although it was no longer given to a priest of Aaron's lineage, since bodily defilement was now pervasive. The general practice after the Temple's destruction was to separate the Terumah from all fruits and vegetables by removing even the slightest portion thereof, and to immediately discard it by burial or some other means of disposal (since it can no longer be eaten in the current state of ritual uncleanness, and those doing so would make themselves liable to extirpation).

mabea:
Young man nothing in christiandom is under compulsion. Everybody chooses whether to believe or not. If tithing is a law and i choose to believe and work in it to God be the glory. Jesus did not come to abolish the law. In fact as christians we are even suppose to live beyond the dictates of the law including tithing. So you can even give more than the 10%.

Thank you my brother, it is not by force. if it does not agree with you, leave it and don't blackmail others into your jaundiced version of correctness.


If we go by the the testament, the new testament even makes it desirable to give all to the work of God not even 10 percent. It is convenient not to give tithe and a lot of babes wants justification to selfishly keep the tithes to themselves. But they want to sit in a clean church, with ac blowing their heads, wants their pastor neatly dressed, run to their pastors or church when in need of house rent, school fees, etc. Hypocrisy every where.

First tithe
The first tithe is giving of one tenth of the remaining agricultural produce (after removing from the produce the standard Terumah) to the Levite (or Aaronic priests). Historically, during the First Temple period, the first tithe was given to the Levites. Approximately at the beginning of the Second Temple construction, Ezra and his Beth din implemented its giving to the kohanim.

The Levites, also known as the Tribe of Levi, were descendants of Levi. They were assistants to the Aaronic priests (who were the children of Aaron and, therefore, a subset of the Tribe of Levi) and did not own or inherit a territorial patrimony (Numbers 18:21-28). Their function in society was that of temple functionaries, teachers and trusted civil servants who supervised the weights and scales and witnessed agreements. The goods donated from the other Israeli tribes were their source of sustenance. They received from "all Israel" a tithe of food or livestock for support, and in turn would set aside a tenth portion of that tithe (known as the Terumat hamaaser) for the Aaronic priests.

Second tithe

Unlike other offerings which were restricted to consumption within the tabernacle, the second tithe could be consumed anywhere within the Walls of Jerusalem. On years one, two, four and five of the Shemittah-cycle, God commanded the Children of Israel to take a second tithe that was to be brought to the place of the Temple (Deuteronomy 14:23). The owner of the produce was to separate and bring 1/10 of his finished produce to the Old City of Jerusalem, after separating Terumah and the first tithe, but if the family lived too far from Jerusalem, the tithe could be redeemed upon coins (Deuteronomy 14:24-25). Then, the Bible required the owner of the redeemed coins to spend the tithe "to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish" (Deuteronomy 14:26). Implicit in the commandment was an obligation to spend the coins on items meant for human consumption.

Poor man's tithe

In years three and six of the Shemittah-cycle the Israelites set aside the (second) tithe instead as the poor tithe, and it was given to the strangers, orphans, and widows.

Originality007:
Freeze is a devil agent, He was sent to Decieve those Careless Christians. many People will not make heaven because of this guy call freeze...

how do you no is an devil,it take time before you believe these who say the true,Jesus Christ,say the true,but people condemn him for the truth.

Terumat maaser

Terumat hamaaser was given by the Levite to the Kohen, and was one-tenth of what the Levite had received of the First-tithe. It is alluded to in the Hebrew Bible under the words, "a tithe (tenth) of the tithe" (Numbers 18:26). It, too, was considered Terumah, and was eaten by priests in a state of ritual cleanness. Today, the Terumat maaser is discarded because of general uncleanness, just as the Terumah is now discarded.

Demai

Demai (Mishnaic Hebrew: דמאי) is a Halakhic term meaning "dubious," referring to agricultural produce, the owner of which was not trusted with regard to the correct separation of the tithes assigned to the Levites, although the terumah (the part designated unto priests) was believed to have been separated from such fruits. In such "dubious" cases, all that was necessary was to separate the one-tenth portion due to the priests from the First Tithe given to the Levites, being the 1/100th part of the whole. The Second Tithe is also removed (redeemed) from the fruit in such cases of doubt.

Places that require tithing
The criterion for determining what places require the tithing of produce is any place within the country that was held by the Returnees from the Babylonian exile, as defined in the "Baraita of the Boundaries" of the Land of Israel;although today the land might be held by a different entity, or else worked by non-Jews, produce grown in those places would still require the separation of tithes when they come into the hand of an Israelite or Jew.

Tithes are broken-off during the Sabbatical year (such as when the ground lies fallow), during which year, all fruits, grains and vegetables that are grown of themselves in that year are considered free and ownerless property. For example, whatever lands were held by those returning from the Babylonian exile at the time of Ezra are forbidden to be ploughed and sown by any Jew during the Seventh year, and even if gentiles were to plough such land and sow it, the produce would be forbidden unto Jews to eat. On the other hand, the extension of such lands held by the people of Israel who departed Egypt and who entered the Land of Canaan under their leader, Joshua, are forbidden to be ploughed by any Jew during the Seventh year, but if gentiles had ploughed such land and sown it, the produce is permitted to be eaten by a Jew. If on a regular week-year, fruits and grains and vegetables, if grown by an Israelite in these places, would require tithing.

Cattle tithe
An additional tithe mentioned in the Book of Leviticus (27:32-33) is the cattle tithe, which is to be sacrificed as a korban at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Ma'aser kesafim
Ma'aser kesafim is a tithe that Jews give to charity (tzedakah), something that is done on a voluntary basis, as this practice has not been regulated in Jewish codes of law.




HAVING GONE THROUGH ALL THESE...I'M STILL AT A LOSS AS TO WHERE THE CHURCH GOT IT'S DOCTRINE OF OBLIGATORY MONETARY TITHING FROM


IF GOD HAS CLEARLY INSTRUCTED WHAT SHOULD BE TITHED, WHY DISOBEY GOD TO FOLLOW THE DOCTRINES OF GREEDY MEN?

paxonel:

Freeze has been asking the question where in the bible were christians compelled to pay tithe was any pastor able to answer that?

bros know body don answer

Please see the various texts from which the article was sourced. Cheers

What makes Satan a clever and crafty liar is the ability to mix the Truth with lies to satisfy his selfish motive.

Anyone who is defending this false doctrine of monetary tithing is only borrowing a leaf from the grand master of liars and deceivers.

Even if a lie has been practised for many centuries...it would never make it the TRUTH!

Monetary tithers would see these things I've posted and still turn a blind eye to it.

With time we would get to know if People are truly serving God or are pursuing monetary interests as their god in church.

Greedy lying agents of darkness and ignorance

cescky:
For those saying Christ came to abolish the law of etc so don't pay tithe etc...don't be ignorant

Tithe existed before the law of Moses...it started with Abraham

But the things of the lord are foolishness to them that are perishing..... tithing isnt an intellectual discourse but a spiritual one...

For freezer and his cohort Mathew 18 vs 7is for you

Even animal sacrifice preceded the law...kindly explain why you do not involve yourself in animal sacrifice if JESUS never preached against it.

DukeNija:


The scripture in Malachi does not refer to the Levites. The levites are the priests who receive the Tithe. It is for their welfare as stated in Numbers 18:24

Tithing is not a destructive mechanism hence there is no need to abolish it. But through the death of Christ most of the older destructive doctrines and practices were abolished. The death of Christ did not abolish the relevance of Tithing, infact, the Bible says in a Luke 11:42 that we should not only focus on our tithes but on other things such as righteousness and justice.

It is relevant because it's suit Pastors like you that's why the church has been impoverishing members while so call pastors and their families live in luxury.
By the way, is there anything wrong for our so called pastors in getting a paid job so they can preach more on people getting salvation.