Who is the morning star, Jesus or Satan?

---

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."Revelation 22: 16

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

OkCornel:



A book can have more than one author...for example, Psalms was not written by David alone...neither was Proverbs written by Solomon alone...

Moses indeed had an input to the book of Deuteronomy....but not the entire book.

Next question...

If a book can have more than one author meaning it can be modified with time, shouldn't that question the validity of the Bible e.g how sure are you that there was ever a man named Moses and he wasn't a fictional character of the writers?

emmayayodeji:


But isn't god soppose to be the same yesterday today and for ever?



Checkmate!!!

Meaning, If you sin and repent He should not forgive you?

I'm sure you did not think this over.

Emmanystone:

Meaning, If you sin and repent He should not forgive you?

I'm sure you did not think this over.

That's not my point

You stated clearly that in d days of old, God punished family members of sinners..

But its not like that again right

Isn't God suppose to be the same everyday
If you cant open your eyes and see that it doesn't add up...

I'm sorry I cNt help u

LordVoldermort:
If a book can have more than one author meaning it can be modified with time, shouldn't that question the validity of the Bible e.g how sure are you that there was ever a man named Moses and he wasn't a fictional character of the writers?

There were scribes in ancient times who were responsible for collating the works of authors before them... to add to them, and not to twist the work of the authors before them. You might want to research how the scribes went about updating the Torah and other Holy Books (Talmud e.t.c) under strict supervisory and review conditions...

Before you hurriedly conclude on whether Moses was a fictional character...

You can check up the works of Josephus Flavius a reputable historian who lived between 37 - 100 AD who attests to the existence of Moses... Read up the antiquity of the Jews...

You can also check up on Manetho, an ancient Egyptian Scribe who detailed the exploits of Moses as a general in the army of Pharoah...before he (Moses) fled Egypt...


Please don't tell me a black man like you in Africa knows the history of the Jews better than the Jews themselves...

Try and beef up your knowledge of Jewish history using multiple sources outside of the Bible...before you corroborate or invalidate what is written in the bible

MuttleyLaff:
Oh yes, they can

Whose money bought it?
Whose nau? Who is the owner of the money that bought it?
Is the money the priests', or is it Judas'?

Its you who doesnt at all, understand each correct answers given you
Read the coming below on what's the meaning of the phrase "Bought the farm"
Dont weep but please try to learn after from reading it

What's the meaning of the phrase 'Bought the farm'?

The New York Times Magazine, March 1954, had a related phrase, in a glossary of jet pilots' slang:
"Bought a plot, had a fatal crash."

That clearly refers to a burial plot.
The 'bought' in that case probably doesn't suggest any actual or potential purchase, but to an earlier use of 'bought', that is, being killed.
This dates back to at least the early 20th century.

This example from 1943 isn't the earliest, but it does make the meaning explicit.
It's from Cyril Ward-Jackson's It's a piece of cake; or, R.A.F. slang made easy:
"He's bought it, he is dead - that is, he has paid with his life."

Specific references to 'the farm' come a little later.
There are reports of the phrase being in use in the US military from 1955 onward.
Here's a citation from 1963, in Ed Miller's Exile to the Stars:
"The police dispatcher says a plane just bought the farm."

There are a few suggested derivations for the phrase.
One, put forward in a 1955 edition of American Speech,
is the idea that when a jet crashes on a farm the farmer may sue the government for compensation.
That would generate a large enough amount of money to pay off the farm's mortgage.
Hence, the pilot paid for the farm with his life.

Another suggestion is the idea that, if a serviceman was killed in action,
his family would receive a payout from the insurance that service personnel were issued with.
This would be sufficient to pay off the family mortgage.
Culled from https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/72850.html

Lastly, a scenario:
Man, before going to work to earn money to pay for everything needed in the house,
gave some money to missus to buy groceries for the family.
Missus, gives part of money to one of her sons, asking him, to go buy a pint of milk for her from the shops
Son, skips to shop and returns back with a carton of milk
Depending on your perspective, Man, missus and son, each and all bought the milk, you do accept. Right?

That guy can argue for all Africans even when the answers are stiring him in the face. He wants to win an arguement by all means.
I no get that time.

emmayayodeji:


That's not my point

You stated clearly that in d days of old, God punished family members of sinners..

But its not like that again right

Isn't God suppose to be the same everyday
If you cant open your eyes and see that it doesn't add up...

I'm sorry I cNt help u

You need help not me because your eyes are open but you can't see.

You quoted a scripture of which if i asked you to interprete it, you won't know how to, but you are prancing about padding yourself on the back.


If the Bible says 'His Mercies endureth forever, what do you think it's saying?

hopefulLandlord:
Absolutely not!
or it'll be wrong for them to say that
(if you're being pedantic with "can"

Pendantic?
Puuulllease....

hopefulLandlord:
Its the priests' as soon as they asked him what he wanted them to do with the money and he said they can do whatever they want with it

Just get time, to properly read the culled article, as you've thought you should do

hopefulLandlord:
Even if you disagree with that, it still doesn't solve it as it simply means Judas didn't buy the land and killed himself on it or he had another 30Pcs of silver he used to purchase the land.
Either way its either the chief priests used the 30Pcs to buy the land OR Judas used the 30Pcs to buy the Land!!!

You'll definitely change tune after properly going through that culled article, you correctly thought that maybe you should re-read.
Some dead people, do buy things or pay for things, you know.

hopefulLandlord:
I don't see how this is pertinent to this discussion, maybe I'll read it again when I'm less busy and get what its saying but it seems to be pedantry on first read

Good advice
and I agree along with you that, you do just that.

hopefulLandlord:
All 3 bought the milk

1. The man gave instructions on what type of things they should use the money for while Judas doesn't give a sheet about the money as all he's interested in is getting the money off his hands

2. The woman took the money and instructed her son to go buy the milk, this still tallies with the instructions from the man

3. The son bought the milk from the grocer but the man is still responsible for it too as long as whatever the money was used for aligns with the Man's instructions which was absent in Judas case

your point is?

Thank you for your honesty.

Now I have a confession to make, there is a mis-type, the man in the scenario didn't specify what the money is for. He just gave his missus the money
Now the point is, whether actively or passively, whether directly or indirectly, that burial place for Judas was bought with his money

Emmanystone:
That guy can argue for all Africans even when the answers are stiring him in the face.
He wants to win an arguement by all means.
I no get that time.

If winning means and matters so much to him, then I concede.

LordVoldermort:
If a book can have more than one author meaning it can be modified with time, shouldn't that question the validity of the Bible e.g how sure are you that there was ever a man named Moses and he wasn't a fictional character of the writers?

Here's this Bible scholar saying Moses was a fictional character. And they are others like her saying same thing. Others like Ashraf Ezzat say that the exodus never happened. See both videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xVBldyy_Oo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1eBpq40kXk

OkCornel:


1) What would a biblical DNA test be doing on National Geographic for goodness sake? It's a Scientific test.

Haaa

Scientific DNA? How? When? Using what technique as at then? On what were the test confirmed scientifically?

2) Light existed before the Sun existed...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

What are your evidence to backup this claim?

that's the point here...

Apparently, you haven't presented any point. All you're doing is making baseless claims

study the structure of the galaxies and notice how the core is brighter than the other parts...

If I knew, I wouldn't have been asking you irrelevant questions.
Mr man, save me the stress and tell me other sources of light that existed before sun.

Morealso, I would be most happy if you provide biblical evidences.

3) The answer to your question is simple. Ask yourself if the original bible was written in English. If no is your answer, then ask yourself if those who did the translation from Hebrew & Greek to Latin and subsequently English did not interpret any part of it out of context. As for Satan dying on the cross for your sins...ride on...even if the interpreters quoted certain things out of context, I never knew you would think they quoted "the entire bible" out of context...

LoL
Some part of the Bible were wrongly translated then.

Also, You mean to say some parts of the Bible are metaphorical and allegorical? LoL

Well done.

4) Man lost a lot of abilities after the fall, eternal life was one of it, telepathic communication was just another bit of it.

Word gymnastics @emboldned
After the fall of man, some miraculous lies stopped occurring - talking animals, wind holding, flat earth, walking on water, spiritual pregnancy etc.

While after the fall of man, some miraculous things continued to occur such as waking the dead, changing genotype from SS to AA, making "some" blind see and deaf hear,

KEEP IT UP.
The lord is your strength.

5) I remain neutral on the story of a talking donkey...as it is, I do not trust the English bible 100%. And before you make a big deal out of this, go and read my first post on this thread...my reason for saying this was clearly stated there...

LoL

Funny you.

MuttleyLaff:
If winning means and matters so much to him, then I concede.

It does. That's why i decided to leave it at that. Let him win.

LordVoldermort:
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Genesis:3:14

How many snakes eat dust?

One mysterious snake ate 36 million in my country.

adepeter2027:

Word gymnastics @emboldned
After the fall of man, some miraculous lies stopped occurring - talking animals, wind holding, flat earth, walking on water, spiritual pregnancy etc.

While after the fall of man, some miraculous things continued to occur such as waking the dead, changing genotype from SS to AA, making "some" blind see and deaf hear,

KEEP IT UP.
The lord is your strength.

5) I remain neutral on the story of a talking donkey...as it is, I do not trust the English bible 100%.

LoL

Funny you.

Bro you funny sha, been reading your replies

AnonyNymous:
Bro you funny sha, been reading your replies

LoL
It's the holy spirit doing.

more contradictions



MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod's death) in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under.



LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants.

MT 27:46-50, MK 15:34-37

Jesus' last recorded words are: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

LUKE 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit."

JOHN 19:30 "It is finished."

Mujtahida:

Here's this Bible scholar saying Moses was a fictional character. And they are others like her saying same thing. Others like Ashraf Ezzat say that the exodus never happened. See both videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xVBldyy_Oo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1eBpq40kXk

Interesting...so a foreigner happens to know the history of the Jews and the Egyptians better than these people (Jews & Egyptians)....

Sounds like a German historian claiming to know Yoruba or Bini history better than the natives... I'm still trying to figure out the logic in that...

OkCornel:


Interesting...so a foreigner happens to know the history of the Jews and the Egyptians better than these people (Jews & Egyptians)....

Sounds like a German historian claiming to know Yoruba or Bini history better than the natives... I'm still trying to figure out the logic in that...

Do a research on what Jewish archaeologists say about the exodus. Did you watch the second video? Did you hear what the Professor said?
As a teaser shlomo Sand in his book 'The invention of the Jewish People' says that archaeological finds in the middle east do not corroborate with the biblical story.

adepeter2027:

Haaa

Scientific DNA? How? When? Using what technique as at then? On what were the test confirmed scientifically?

If you go through the documentary, you will find the answers to your question in there...but I guess you're either lazy or too busy to go through it hence...you are replying me with incomplete knowledge on the subject matter

adepeter2027:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

What are your evidence to backup this claim?

Please take out time to research on how the structure of the Universe... you'll find out that before the sun existed as a star...there were many other countless stars as well... when you are through with your findings, I expect you understand that stars are not the only source of light nor the first source of light in the Universe...

Infact, do some research and give me an intelligent clapback. I am looking for people to engage me in intellectually stimulating discussions rather than reply me with disappointing answers

adepeter2027:

Apparently, you haven't presented any point. All you're doing is making baseless claims

If I knew, I wouldn't have been asking you irrelevant questions.
Mr man, save me the stress and tell me other sources of light that existed before sun.

Morealso, I would be most happy if you provide biblical evidences.

Go and do some more research on the Universe...unless you are telling me the Sun is the first star that ever existed in the Universe...
And bear in mind, the stars are not the only source of light in the Universe...

If you are waiting for Biblical evidence... I hope "Let there be light" rings a bell in your head...

adepeter2027:

LoL
Some part of the Bible were wrongly translated then.

Also, You mean to say some parts of the Bible are metaphorical and allegorical? LoL

Well done.

If you were patient enough to read and understand my first post on this thread...then you won't be typing this. Go and do some more research... The English Bible(s) (all the different versions) are not 100% accurate!

adepeter2027:

Word gymnastics @emboldned
After the fall of man, some miraculous lies stopped occurring - talking animals, wind holding, flat earth, walking on water, spiritual pregnancy etc.

While after the fall of man, some miraculous things continued to occur such as waking the dead, changing genotype from SS to AA, making "some" blind see and deaf hear,

KEEP IT UP.
The lord is your strength.

LoL

Funny you.

I get your problem...it's because all these things are written in a Jewish book...that's why your mindset which has been made rigid by logic (which is not the highest form of intelligence) finds it difficult to accept...

Perhaps, you might find all these things to be possible if a Satanist or Occultist demonstrates them as well...

OkCornel:


Interesting...so a foreigner happens to know the history of the Jews and the Egyptians better than these people (Jews & Egyptians)....

Sounds like a German historian claiming to know Yoruba or Bini history better than the natives... I'm still trying to figure out the logic in that...

what do you think about this?

http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/judaism/2004/12/did-the-exodus-really-happen.aspx

Mujtahida:

Do a research on what Jewish archaeologists say about the exodus. Did you watch the second video? Did you hear what the Professor said?
As a teaser shlomo Sand in his book 'The invention of the Jewish People' says that archaeological finds in the middle east do not corroborate with the biblical story.

I'll watch it later today... by the way, the Professor is Jewish or a foreigner?

Also give us a summary of what Jewish archaeologists said about the exodus...and give me their names so I can continue with my research on them as well.

Thanks...

OkCornel:


If you go through the documentary, you will find the answers to your question in there...but I guess you're either lazy or too busy to go through it hence...you are replying me with incomplete knowledge on the subject matter



Please take out time to research on how the structure of the Universe... you'll find out that before the sun existed as a star...there were many other countless stars as well... when you are through with your findings, I expect you understand that stars are not the only source of light nor the first source of light in the Universe...

Infact, do some research and give me an intelligent clapback. I am looking for people to engage me in intellectually stimulating discussions rather than reply me with disappointing answers



Go and do some more research on the Universe...unless you are telling me the Sun is the first star that ever existed in the Universe...
And bear in mind, the stars are not the only source of light in the Universe...

If you are waiting for Biblical evidence... I hope "Let there be light" rings a bell in your head...



If you were patient enough to read and understand my first post on this thread...then you won't be typing this. Go and do some more research... The English Bible(s) (all the different versions) are not 100% accurate!



I get your problem...it's because all these things are written in a Jewish book...that's why your mindset which has been made rigid by logic (which is not the highest form of intelligence) finds it difficult to accept...

Perhaps, you might find all these things to be possible if a Satanist or Occultist demonstrates them as well...

do you believe the sun revolves round the earth? because the bible implied that when jehosephat commanded the sun to stand still so he will be able to finish his battle.

this is another reason why I think parts of the bible is fable and didn't happen.

In the KJV which is based on the Latin Vulgate that became Textus Receptus, the verse 1 Tim 3:16 reads as follows; “ And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels……,”

Now the Codex Alexandrinus is one of the oldest and most complete Greek biblical manuscripts, (others being the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus) it contains most of the Septuagint and the New Testament. It is presently housed at the British library. In this codex it can be seen that 1 Tim 3:16 in the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh," it contains the usual ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation. (God) However, researchers have determined that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. How? The ink in which this has been done is sufficiently modern and black betraying its recent application (it permeated the vellum on which it was inserted) added to this is the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line.

Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC "He who was manifested in the flesh” meaning that the true reading of the verse would be “He was manifested in the flesh…”

Clearly a later scribe had altered the original reading, so that it no longer read “who” but “God” (made manifest in the flesh)
The same changes were made to four subsequent manuscripts by the correctors. And the rest as they say…is history.

Humanistme:


what do you think about this?

http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/judaism/2004/12/did-the-exodus-really-happen.aspx

Permit me to give all theists and atheists an assignment here

Are there archaeological evidences for drowned chariots and artifacts at the bottom of the red sea?

OkCornel:


I'll watch it later today... by the way, the Professor is Jewish or a foreigner?

Also give us a summary of what Jewish archaeologists said about the exodus...and give me their names so I can continue with my research on them as well.

Thanks...

First your premise as you posited in your earlier post was misplaced. A people's history can be known by anybody who devotes his time to study that history irrespective of his nationality. So being Jewish or Egyptian is not the criteria. The criteria is whether the claims of an historian are true or false not nationality.

Get a copy of shlomo Sand' book and you'd see him name archaeologists and the studies they did.

Google is your friend. Do your research.

Right in the second video, at the 12 minutes mark listen to Professor Abadi said.

Long before this thread was created I'd read about doubts being cast on the historicity of the exodus story as written in the bible.

Emmanystone:
Meaning, If you sin and repent He should not forgive you?
I'm sure you did not think this over.

Psalms Chapter 119 Verse 89 New International Version Your word, LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.

yet he changed his word many times in the bible.

Humanistme:


do you believe the sun revolves round the earth? because the bible implied that when jehosephat commanded the sun to stand still so he will be able to finish his battle.

this is another reason why I think parts of the bible is fable and didn't happen.

To the ancient men, they did not have NASA telescopes to realize the earth rotated around the Sun...

The reality of things is that the earth froze on its axis...so to these men..."the sun stood still"...












I also had the same issues with one part of Revelation where John wrote he saw a vision of stars falling down from heaven...

Till date I've asked;

1) Is it a literal event? Stars falling from Heaven? impossible...

2) Could he have seen a meteor shower and mistook them for stars?

3) Is it a figurative message?

I've not gotten a consistent answer on the matter...

OkCornel:


To the ancient men, they did not have NASA telescopes to realize the earth rotated around the Sun...

The reality of things is that the earth froze on its axis...so to these men..."the sun stood still"...












I also had the same issues with one part of Revelation where John wrote he saw a vision of stars falling down from heaven...

Till date I've asked;

1) Is it a literal event? Stars falling from Heaven? impossible...

2) Could he have seen a meteor shower and mistook them for stars?

3) Is it a figurative message?

I've not gotten a consistent answer on the matter...

what evidence shows the earth actually froze on its axis?

is it even possible?

if knowledge was limited in those days when the bible was written why do we still believe it hook line and sinker with all our advancements and NASA?

Mujtahida:

First your premise as you posited in your earlier post was misplaced. A people's history can be known by anybody who devotes his time to study that history irrespective of his nationality. So being Jewish or Egyptian is not the criteria. The criteria is whether the claims of an historian are true or false not nationality.

Get a copy of shlomo Sand' book and you'd see him name archaeologists and the studies they did.

Google is your friend. Do your research.

Right in the second video, at the 12 minutes mark listen to Professor Abadi said.

Long before this thread was created I'd read about doubts being cast on the historicity of the exodus story as written in the bible.

Per the bolded....if a German researcher and historian tells you the history of your forefathers depending on which side of Nigeria you hail from AND your grand mother who is also a historian tells you history of your forefathers...

Both of them have convincing and yet conflicting evidence, please tell me which person's position you will settle for...the German guy abi?

Humanistme:


what evidence shows the earth actually froze on its axis?

I thought what I typed up there was self explanatory already...or are you waiting for videos and photographs as evidence?

Humanistme:


what evidence shows the earth actually froze on its axis?

is it even possible?

if knowledge was limited in those days when the bible was written why do we still believe it hook line and sinker with all our advancements and NASA?

The earth froze on its axis...the time lost for this act was reversed when Hezekiah got the sign that his life would be prolonged...

Read up that part of the Bible and see how the sun moved on the sun dial...