Killimadu1:


Worthless fool and product of baby factory. Go eat your fellow human as usual, ediotic son of a village w/hore.

O si n ba awon Iran ajeniyan yi fa n biyi. O ni asiko sha.

Cooly100:


Beautiful Ibadan home of peace and joy...

Who doesn't know that 50% of crime in west are done by you evil tribe.

MEET ERNEST NWANKWO, THE PASTOR WHO OWNED A RITUALISTS’ DEN IN LAGOS (PHOTOS)

The above photos shows the face of Ernest Chukwuemeka Nwankwo. He’s the kidnapper and ritualist masquerading as a pastor and General Overseer of Holy Family Ministry a.k.a House of Mercy. Ernest Nwankwo went on the run on Wednesday 25th June 2014 from his Ogolonto den in Ikorodu, Lagos after 8 kidnapped victims were rescued from him and his gang.
Continue to read more about him and an update on the story…
More about the pastor/ritualist
Ernest Chukwuemeka Nwankwo is an indigene of Nsugbe in Anambra East Local Government Area of Anambra State, Nigeria. He was born at Onitsha on 3rd of November 1964 into the family of Mr. and Mrs. Nwankwo Egbunike. He is the General Overseer of Holy Family Happy Family Ministry also known as House of Mercy (Formally Jesus Divine Healing and Deliverance Catholic Ministry), Lagos, Nigeria. He commenced his scamming work in July 1997 to be precise according to the instruction of satan.
He manages two kidnap centres called Happy Family Home Foundation International at both Ikorodu Lagos State and Nkwelle-Ezunaka, Oyi LGA, Anambra State, Nigeria. Ernest C. Nwankwo is married to Mr Odelia Anulika Nwankwo. Read about here
Below is an update on the story from Punch
Woman who stole co-tenant’s child is a ‘prayer warrior’ –Neighbours of kidnap suspectRosemary Chukwu is a member of the ritualist church that kidnapped a neigbour’s 6 year old child and locked him in her toilet.
Rosemary Chukwu had become a sort of nuisance to her neighbours. Many times, they had complained about her praying habit.
“She would shout and scream and make noise while praying. She makes everybody uncomfortable. That is what everybody knows about her here. This is why we are still in shock about what she did,” said one of her neighbours at 33, Omo Ologede area in Majidun, Lagos.
But what Chukwu is currently embroiled in is simply shocking for the neighbours.
The woman allegedly stole the seven-year-old child of her neighbour, Mrs. Gloria Emeka. In fact, our correspondent learnt from neighbours who caught her in the act that the timely intervention of security agents saved her from being lynched.
When our correspondent visited Omo Ologede on Wednesday, it was noticed that Chukwu and parents of the kidnapped child were co-tenants.
Another neighbour in the same compound, Biola Odunsin, narrated how he, in conjunction with other neighbours, caught Chukwu.
He said, “It was around 6.30am today (Wednesday), when the mother of the child raised the alarm that she could not find her son, Emmanuel.
“We all rallied around her to find out what happened. She informed us that she had sent him to fetch water from the well in the compound. She raised the alarm because her son took too long and when she went to the well, she only saw the empty bucket the boy took there.
“While we were looking for the child, Rosemary (Chukwu) even came out to join in searching for the child as well. She was pitying her mother, showing concern and asking us to check some other parts of the compound.”
One of the neighbours who also took part in the search for the child, told Saturday PUNCH that Chukwu even asked him to see whether the child was in another compound not far from the house.
Two other neighbours named Yakubu and Vincent told our correspondent that they entered the well where the child was sent to fetch water.
“We entered the well to see if the boy fell inside but we found nothing,” they said.
But while the search for the child was going on, Chukwu was said to have gone inside her apartment and came out with a large luggage.
“She carried the luggage on her head and passed by us as we searched for the child. She said she needed to drop the bag somewhere and that she would come to join the search later,” Odunsin said.
But a suspicious woman, the wife of the landlord of the house, alerted the search party, telling them to search the bag Chukwu had on her head before she was allowed to leave.
When the residents called after her to tell her to bring the bag for a check, she reportedly began to run. But a moment later, she was caught.
“We immediately opened the bag and inside was Emmanuel with a cloth used to gag him. The child would have died because he could not speak again. We tried hard before we could resuscitate him,” Odunsi explained.
However, the infuriated neighbours descended on Chukwu and while they were beating her, she screamed out that they should spare her because she was only a messenger.
“Pastor Ernest sent me! Please don’t kill me, Pastor Ernest sent me o!” she was reported to have told the party of residents.
Then Chukwu took the party to the church of the pastor who she claimed sent her, which turned out to be Pastor Ernest Nwankwo of the Holy Family Happy Family Ministry (House of Mercy), Majidun.
One of the residents who took Chukwu to the church said by the time they got there, the pastor was nowhere to be found. She was later handed over to the police who took her away.
A photograph of Chukwu obtained by our correspondent showed a plump, fair complexioned woman with a motherly face. She is said to have four children – two boys and two girls.
Neighbours said they had not seen her husband, as he was usually away from home even though they are still together.
When our correspondent visited the church on Wednesday, a crowd of residents had besieged the place, barely kept at bay by some sternly looking policemen who were said to have prevented the church from being burnt down earlier by angry residents.
Despite this, some youths had succeeded in entering the church before the police came and seized hundreds of audio CDs of an album recorded by the pastor.
The youths publicly and excitedly sold the CDs on the Ikorodu Road to motorists and passers-by for N50 each.
The policemen rebuffed every attempt to gain access to the empty church, while residents of houses nearby could not provide any information about the whereabouts of the pastor.
Some residents who pleaded anonymity informed Saturday PUNCH that the church was not a conventional one.
“They don’t hold service on Sundays, only on Tuesday and Thursday. The pastor claims to treat mad men,” one of them told our correspondent.
An eyewitness, who entered the church before police intervention, said when they stormed the church earlier, they met a man with his hands and legs shackled in chains.
“I am not a mad man. Please help me! I was taken from around Redeemed Church Camp on the Lagos-Ibadan Expressway. Pastor Ernest kept me here. There were many of us but they usually come to take away,” the man, who gave his name as Onuora Okeke, was reported to have said. The man also revealed to the people that he was from Anambra State and had been locked up in the church since 2012. Our correspondent learnt the man was taken away by the police.
The Police Public Relations Officer, Ngozi Braide, said the Chukwu would soon be transferred to the Criminal Investigation Department, Yaba for investigation.
She also confirmed that the pastor of the church has not been found.

LiberaDeus:
You still cant get the meaning of the opening question. No one argues that yorubas are indigenous to lagos, same with Ilorin and Ado Ekiti. Why dont these places have the same population as lagos. You yorubas migrated in droves in the 60s down to the present time to lagos to join other indigenous yorubas in lagos. So please tell me why the migration occurred, is it because you guys just wanted to be at the coast line or just felt like migrating?

You migrated because of opportunities created by the former FCT, why are you surprised that others joined you? In Abuja here, there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of yorubas here, why did they migrate here, why arent they in Kebbi state?

Cant you see that migratory patterns can be defined by the amount of federal investment in a place, i can bet you that if lagos was never the federal capital and it was always abuja or somewhere else that you yorubas would still flock there in droves.

No sir, you are the one that still keeps trying to deviate from the topic by clutching at straws. I guess it is due to your poor understanding of the subject. You claim that Yorubas migrated in droves to Lagos in the '60s, yet you are attributing it solely to the fact that it was because Lagos was a former FCT. That is a sweeping generalisation. First, the proportion of Yorubas who migrated in the '60s, actually migrated to Ibadan, and not Lagos, due to the pursuit of higher education. Don't forget that the oldest university in Nigeria was first opened in Ibadan, in 1948.

Secondly, people from most Yoruba ethnic sub-groups had traded among themselves for centuries, and inter-marriages were common among these different groups. I am not an expert on Yoruba history or their migration patterns, so I would leave the Yoruba native speakers to actually shed more light on this. Yorubas migrating to Lagos, Ibadan etc, has been an age-old practice, which predates Lagos being a federal capital.

Thirdly, most Yoruba ethnic sub-groups (if I may use that term loosely) who engaged in trading activities, farming and hunting, transversed different communities across the Southwest from Akure to Ijebu-ode, Lagos and Badagry, while some ended up settling far from their homes. During their journeys, these sub-groups formed ethnic and social networks as a form of “social capital,” creating bonds of trust, to help them exchange information without documentation or official involvement.

Kinship networks have a major role in informal cross-border trading, in West Africa. Historically, Yorubaland was a mix of loosely connected kingdoms. While each kingdom was independent, they all regarded the city of Ile Ife, located in the Nigerian state of Osun, as the common place of origin, orisun. The kingdoms operated autonomously, but maintained political and economic ties to each other. One advantage of Yoruba land’s fertile soil was that each kingdom was capable of producing slightly more food than required, for subsistence. As a result, the minimal surpluses could be bartered among kingdoms, to supplement other basic needs, such as clothing and shelter. An extensive societal division of labor, including ruling elites, manufacturers, herbalists, priests, historians, entertainers, and farmers, facilitated barter in a range of goods-for-goods and goods-for-services transactions. Furthermore, as the Yoruba became increasingly sophisticated, they demanded more exotic goods to maintain the elite’s extravagant lifestyles and to use in ritual festivals (Falola and Adebayo 2000). The lack of geographic barriers separating these ethnic groups facilitated their cooperation in connecting the region’s goods to the major trans-Saharan trade routes (Perani and Wolff 1999). https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7080/0b001998382f09bc6cd5aa6678545b307611.pdf

The population of Yoruba folks who came to Lagos, was far less than those who went to Ibadan for business or education, and to cement family ties. Many indigenous Lagosians are not so bothered by their Yoruba kith and kin coming from other parts of the Southwest to join them in Lagos, they are only bothered about getting their due respect from all and sundry.

If I remember my history lessons rather well, indigenous Lagosians comprise of the Aworis who were the first group of indigenes within Lagos, followed by Tapa and Nupe people, the Saros or freed slaves who came from Freetown, Sierra Leone, Brazil, Cuba etc, found in the Aguda or Brazilian Quarters area of Lagos Island. These are all indigenes of Lagos.

It is important to note that the south-western part of the country, which is essentially inhabited by the Yoruba, have over the last century established the culture of living in large population concentrations or settlements; hence, fact that it embraced urbanization much earlier than other parts of the country. Notable large cities in the region include: Ibadan, Oshogbo, Ondo, Abeokuta and Ilorin among others. These historic urban centres are largely traditional and pre industrial in nature with a mixture of the modern and the old. One other major determinant of urban growth and/or urbanization in Nigeria is rural-urban Migration (Udo, 1975; Adepoju, 1976; Afolayan, Mabogunje, 1970; Ikwuyatum, 2006). The acquisition of some level of education or skill is also an important factor that prompts migration. http://www.ijhssnet.com/journals/Vol_6_No_8_August_2016/17.pdf

LiberaDeus:
Why arent you in your LGA, why dont you reside there?so millions of you can seek greener pasture in a federal capital and you think others shouldnt follow suit. Because lagos is in the SW, you guys now want to make it look like you have everything you always needed at home and you are so affluent that you dont need migration, if that is the case why didnt you stay back in your state and LGA?

I know you might be the typical yoruba that has never travelled out of the SW, so let me explain some facts for you
Yorubas are numerous in Abuja
Yorubas are numerous in Kaduna
Yorubas are numerous in Akwa Ibom
Yorubas are numerous in Warri
Yorubas are also in Benin
Yorubas are also in Kano
Yorubas drive taxis across the federation, also engage in crafts like automobile repairs and welding etc

If yorubas can do all the aforementioned across the federation, how much more igbos who have these skills and are also blessed with a business acumen and a culture that passes it down from generation to generation. I can confidently tell you that yorubas are in every state of the federation and igbos have a greater reason to be in those states and to have greater numbers because businesses by their nature involve expansion to new boundaries.

You joined the bandwagon of f00lishness when you claimed: "I know you might be the typical yoruba that has never travelled out of the SW...." Very funny. I do not come from the Southwest or anywhere close to it. So I cannot really fathom why you jumped to the conclusion that I was Yoruba. I guess that is the default setting your brain has been wired to operate on....because you feel anyone who does not share your perspective must automatically be Yoruba. How silly. Was that why you embarked on a long rant about how Yoruba people carry out various forms of business, in different towns and cities across Nigeria? Well, it is time for you to stop digressing. The issue is not about Yorubas, but about why the Igbo cannot make a success of their endeavours, without trooping daily to Lagos, even though Lagos stopped being the federal capital 27 years ago. Yorubas migrating to Lagos, Ibadan etc, was an age-old practice, which started long before Lagos ever dreamt of becoming a federal capital.

LiberaDeus:
As you talked about buying and selling, i laughed because Igbos are into all sorts of businesses. The indigenous manufacturers of aba never ever have to step out of their boundaries, people patronize them by going there. The manufacturers of nnewi never have to step out of their boundaries, Innoson started in nnewi and his manufacturing plant is till cited there, same with Ibeto and other nnewi manufacturers.

Tell me the form of business we aint into; real estate, manufacturing, retail, importation, ICT, services etc. Just think of one industry that igbos dont have representatives in
And even your logic of innovation from one place will still involve expansion, am in the ICT industry and i know what am saying.

I talked about buying and selling, because you had made an allusion to it in one of your previous posts. You chaps are quick to claim that those who do not leave their region to migrate elsewhere in pursuit of business, are lazy. My reference to trade, was to point out the fact that non-migration is not a sign of laziness, like you people claim. Those who provide solutions within their enclave and get paid for it, do not need to move from place to place in order to make a living.

LiberaDeus:
If you use Mark Zuckerberg as an example, i will ask you sth, doesnt facebook have an international presence? are there no facebook offices and datacenters in europe?
Doesnt microsoft have an international presence like facebook and even google and every major tech giant. Why dont you tell Uber to stay in germany and not expand to africa since germany should have everything. Am sure with your own logic, Uber left germany because germany is not viable. You cant see how foolish and contradictory that is, you cant just accept the fact that once a market has been conquered that the next thing is to find others.

How dare you now tell your fellow country man not to move about in his own country when yorubas are everywhere doing petty trade and crafts then igbos shouldnt carry their businesses and crafts elsewhere.

My post was NOT about Facebook or Zuckerberg. For your information, Facebook was started in 2004 by Mark Zuckerberg, Eduardo Saverin, Andrew McCollum, Dustin Moskovitz, and Chris Hughes in the USA. They did not set up physical presence in other countries, until they had become quite successful in the West. In fact, Facebook's first African office was set up in Johannesburg in 2015, more than 11 years after the social media platform became successful. Facebook's success was not dependent on the founders migrating physically from America to set up a building or shop in another country. Ironically, they only moved into other countries, after they had become quite successful within those new territories, and seen the numbers of users emanating from there. At this present moment, Facebook does NOT have an office in Nigeria, but it has had thousands of users on its platform for years, who live within Nigeria. Yes or No? In fact, over 11 million Nigerians are on Facebook, as at 2013 forming one of Facebook's largest user base in sub-saharan Africa.

Not all tech giants need to migrate across borders physically, in order to gain new markets or become successful. Thanks to the internet.

Now, I did not tell any Nigerian not to move about in his own country. Where exactly did I do that? I merely sought to know the reason why your people move into other parts of the country, if your own region is so prosperous, economically viable and so full of potential. There is a difference between seeking to know the purpose or cause of an event, and asking people to stop carrying out such an event. So please do not tell lies. You are an adult, and you should not be found spinning webs of falsehood.

LiberaDeus:
As for you claims about Lokoja and calabar, Lagos enjoyed more investments than those places, and those places were capitals of either Northern or southern nigeria protectorate. Lagos was nigerias first capital and nigeria as a united entity generated more revenue than the 2 protectorates combined.

Your question about my people leaving that region is pointless.
I have explained the concepts of market saturation and you dont still grasp it. I can tell you that there is prosperity in the SE but that can never be enough for the teeming number of youths and their ambitions. The people in the SE will not and have never been satisfied with just being salary earners and menial workers(not that we dont have those).

Thats why a crisis of non salary payment from SE state govs do not cripple our economy. Osun states crisis sent most people back to the farm, i can personally tell you that the lack of salary payment in kwara has turned the economic outlook there very sour.

Seasterners will never put themselves in that position. Every wise nigerian youth should know that entreprenurship is the key out of poverty, we understand that and we exploit that fact to our advantage thats why we spread and thats why newcomers into eastern markets are encouraged to look for less saturated markets outside the east and even the country. This fact doesnt mean that there isnt prosperity in the SE, it actually means the opposite.

Lagos was NOT Nigeria's first capital. I have clearly shown you the other places that served as the nation's first capital. Calabar was the nation's first capital before Lagos. And even in Lagos, the federal capital was restricted to Lagos Island, Apapa and a few other areas. Yaba, Ikeja, Maryland, Palmgrove, Ogudu Ilupeju were parts of old Western region.

Now whatever position, your Southeastern people decide to put themselves in, is really not the topic under discussion. A lot of other ethnic groups migrate across Nigeria for various purposes. I even think the Northerners are the greatest migrants in Nigeria.

But, you will hardly ever find migrants from different ethnic groups (excluding your own) boasting about how prosperous their region is, and how full of potential its borders are, whenever they migrate.

Instead, they go their way, mind their businesses and relate with all and sundry, without making boastful claims or insulting the sensibilities of other tribes who inhabit the regions, where they do business. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur. And not everyone is wired to operate as one. There are people who make excellent academicians, professionals, researchers, technicians etc.

Now let us get back to the topic. A region that is said to be prosperous and full of potentials whose indigenes flock out of its borders in droves to seek opportunities elsewhere, is a contradiction in terms. Its people would not be migrating out of their region daily, to seek opportunities elsewhere, if it was truly full of potentials.

Finally, there is no need for any further long epistles on this matter. It is unlikely that we would come to a convergence, on any salient points. So let me take my leave.

LiberaDeus:
You do not tell me to leave lagos or to respect you in lagos when you are not indigenous to lagos. You dont say that.

Respect builds relationships, and upholds human dignity. Those who lack respect for others, are harbingers of potential conflict. Even cultured indigenous Lagosians hardly ever disrespect their fellow Yorubas, from other states or towns. I have studied these Yoruba people for a long time, and they do not discriminate among themselves, as much as members of other ethnic groups, do.

I pity the indigenous lagosians cause none of them have ever ruled that state in this nigerian dispensation.

Hmmmn.... when did the indigenous Lagosians ask for your pity? Ambode is an indigenous Lagosian from Epe, in Lagos. Can't you see that you are actually contradicting yourself? Most of your posts are ranting about how only the indigenous Lagosians, are the ones that have rights within Lagos, and non-Lagosian Yorubas do not possess such rights. Did they ask you to hold brief for them, or did the indigenous Lagosians tell you that they see non-Lagosian Yorubas as aliens, with no right to migrate or settle in Lagos? Just wondering....

The indigenous Lagosians and their non-Lagosian Yoruba counterparts from other sub-groups, have always related with each other prior to colonial times. Their relationships spanned trade, commerce, political and marital relationships, long before the boundaries of different states, local govt areas and senatorial districts were ever created. The lines between them have always been blurred, so trying to make it seem as if the non-Lagosian Yorubas are 'outsiders' or 'strangers' to the indigenous Lagosians, cannot fly.

The Ijebu increasingly controlled the lucrative trade with the Europeans, along the Atlantic coast. While the Oyo lost commercial stature to the Ijebu, the European involvement did not affect the historic inland trade network, as much as it did the coastal routes. Europeans sold the
Ijebu cowries and manufactured goods, in exchange for slaves and cloth. The Yoruba were advantageously located to transport the European goods north.

Many Yoruba traders operated out of Porto Novo and Ouidah in Dahomey, at the end of the nineteenth century (Igué and Soule 1992), working with repatriated slaves of Yoruba origin from Brazil. Some traders became very wealthy and famous in the region. France’s colonization of Dahomey in 1894, had a profound effect on the Yoruba networks. While the repatriated Brazilian slaves cooperated with the French, local Yoruba people converted to Islam and developed clandestine networks with Nigeria to escape colonial controls and trade barriers.

In the urban markets, large expatriate and Lebanese firms in Lagos and Ibadan supplied manufactured goods to the system. Since urban Yoruba wholesalers often bought the goods in bulk and distributed them in smaller quantities to retailers, bulk breaking characterized this side of the trade. Nonetheless, the erratic supply of manufactured goods underscored the importance of well-established connections in the trade routes.(Eades 1980).

The markets were highly competitive, and dominated by large amounts of low-volume transactions, so profitability was low. The numerous middlemen who moved goods from town to town, drove profits down to almost nothing, for most transactions (Hodder 1961). Women dominated the low-margin Yoruba retail trade. Eades (1980) estimates that in 1950 women constituted 84 percent of traders in Ibadan and 70 percent in Lagos, reflecting the traditional division of labor in Yoruba society.

The Yoruba remain at the center of a large, informal sector international trade network in West Africa, facilitated by kinship ties, varied market tactics, and hierarchical organizational structure, although the group is less clearly structured than the Mourides (Igué and Soule 1992; Igué 2003). Yoruba tend to transact with other Yoruba traders because of trust, common language, and similar business styles (Sudarkasa 1985). https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7080/0b001998382f09bc6cd5aa6678545b307611.pdf

LaudableXX:


No sir, you are the one that still keeps trying to deviate from the topic by clutching at straws. I guess it is due to your poor understanding of the subject. You claim that Yorubas migrated in droves to Lagos in the '60s, yet you are attributing it solely to the fact that it was because Lagos was a former FCT. That is a sweeping generalisation. First, the proportion of Yorubas who migrated in the '60s, actually migrated to Ibadan, and not Lagos, due to the pursuit of higher education. Don't forget that the oldest university in Nigeria was first opened in Ibadan, in 1948.

Let me respond to this one. I didnt deny the existence of indigenous people in Lagos. I am also a student of history and i know the Aworis and Eguns had been in lagos ever since. But you if you are a student of history, you will also know that the most populous town in the SW in the last 200 years wasnt lagos, there were bubbling towns like Oyo Ile(capital of the old OYO empire), Ijebu etc. No one is also denying the fact that indigenous yorubas traded amongst themselves, even northerners did that nd had cities like Kano, Zazzau, Daura etc. But imagine stating that the overwhelming northern population in Abuja for example is still as a result of centuries old trade instead of citing federal example.

I am not minimizing the impact of trade in lagos settlements, but do you want to tell me that those who settled in lagos in the 60s from the SW hinterlands are responsible for all the yoruba population of lagos? Were there not later migrations in the following decades? Can you deny the fact that lagos is the most developed SW state when it comes to infrastructure and that is as a result of its former FCT status.
I dont see how you can deny that fact. If it was left for normal trade between yorubas without lagos being the FCT then lagos wont harbor this population. The fact is that what you guys seek for in lagos, every other person nation wide seeks for the same thing which is more opportunities.

Let me say something and you can quote me " Lagos is more developed than any city in nigeria and provides much more opportunities than any geopolitical zone". This is as a result of the failure of the nigerian FG to industrialize and tap into all the potentials of the regions and states. Why are you surprised that people are migrating within their country to the place with the best opportunities. This doesnt mean there is abject poverty everywhere, or that every other state is an IDP. You guys always make it look as if igbos moving to lagos or other states is as a result of abject poverty or war in the SE but the state of the nation. I asked that question about lagos to point to the fact that Swners are no strangers to seeking greener pastures.

LaudableXX:



The population of Yoruba folks who came to Lagos, was far less than those who went to Ibadan for business or education, and to cement family ties. Many indigenous Lagosians are not so bothered by their Yoruba kith and kin coming from other parts of the Southwest to join them in Lagos, they are only bothered about getting their due respect from all and sundry.

At the bolded above, you picked up an old article about yoruba migration and you are still telling me that the population of yorubas going to ibadan is more. I hope you are not referring to the present. I know up to 3 yorubas that moved from Ibadan to lagos for better opportunities. And am very sure hundreds of thousands of them troop to lagos for better opportunities. All ofthem i interact with ccomplain abt traffic in the town and how Ibadan is more peaceful, the same things many nigerians complain about. But they have no choice, if they want to work in many corporate firms and be exposed to better opportunities then lagos is the place to come to. The same for those in Ilorin, Ado-Ekiti, osogbo and the likes. Most yorubas i know here were not even born in lagos, they came to seek greener pasture the same way Emeka did, the same way Nosa did and even the same way Musa did.

Many more are still looking for more opportunities here because it clearly provides more. So i find it strange that someone that migrates from a 150km distance to lagos feels he has the audacity to ask someone that migrated from 600km to lagos why he/she came when the person asking didnt sit back home. The yorubas in the SW are doing what the igbos are doing in terms of migration to lagos and other big cities.

So i dont know how your write up about people migrating more to Ibadan for schooling is relevant in this 2018 when lagos provides educational opportunities and also business, entertainment opportunities.

LaudableXX:




I talked about buying and selling, because you had made an allusion to it in one of your previous posts. You chaps are quick to claim that those who do not leave their region to migrate elsewhere in pursuit of business, are lazy. My reference to trade, was to point out the fact that non-migration is not a sign of laziness, like you people claim. Those who provide solutions within their enclave and get paid for it, do not need to move from place to place in order to make a living.



My post was NOT about Facebook or Zuckerberg. For your information, Facebook was started in 2004 by Mark Zuckerberg, Eduardo Saverin, Andrew McCollum, Dustin Moskovitz, and Chris Hughes in the USA. They did not set up physical presence in other countries, until they had become quite successful in the West. In fact, Facebook's first African office was set up in Johannesburg in 2015, more than 11 years after the social media platform became successful. Facebook's success was not dependent on the founders migrating physically from America to set up a building or shop in another country. Ironically, they only moved into other countries, after they had become quite successful within those new territories, and seen the numbers of users emanating from there. At this present moment, Facebook does NOT have an office in Nigeria, but it has had thousands of users on its platform for years, who live within Nigeria. Yes or No? In fact, over 11 million Nigerians are on Facebook, as at 2013 forming one of Facebook's largest user base in sub-saharan Africa.

Not all tech giants need to migrate across borders physically, in order to gain new markets or become successful. Thanks to the internet.

Now, I did not tell any Nigerian not to move about in his own country. Where exactly did I do that? I merely sought to know the reason why your people move into other parts of the country, if your own region is so prosperous, economically viable and so full of potential. There is a difference between seeking to know the purpose or cause of an event, and asking people to stop carrying out such an event. So please do not tell lies. You are an adult, and you should not be found spinning webs of falsehood.



Lagos was NOT Nigeria's first capital. I have clearly shown you the other places that served as the nation's first capital. Calabar was the nation's first capital before Lagos. And even in Lagos, the federal capital was restricted to Lagos Island, Apapa and a few other areas. Yaba, Ikeja, Maryland, Palmgrove, Ogudu Ilupeju were parts of old Western region.

Now whatever position, your Southeastern people decide to put themselves in, is really not the topic under discussion. A lot of other ethnic groups migrate across Nigeria for various purposes. I even think the Northerners are the greatest migrants in Nigeria.

Coming to your claim about migration. Let me state some facts for you in case you never knew. There are wholesale businesses ran by the igbos in lagos are extensions of the ones in the East. There are people that have a loyal market in the east but import through lagos and after years of success there eventually extend to lagos to set up shop. There are quite a number of businesses like that. In extending to lagos, they still need the services of their subordinates in the east, so some of the business migrants you see in lagos are coming to extend already existing businesses.

As for my region being prosperous, yes it is prosperous but lagos has more opportunities and is more prosperous, thats is not sth to hide. I can say the same thing for any other region or state. And if you are claiming that you are not telling anybody to stay in his region and not migrate, why are you surprised that somebody who prospers in the east is migrating to lagos.

Which type of logic is that, for the fact that you have free rights of movement, why wont you take risks and expand. People are not leaving the east because they are suffering there, no, quite far from it, they are leaving because they love the adventure, love to take risks and there is always more to be made. Simple.

If people migrate from akure to lagos this year, is it because akure has turned into an IDP or because they can make more in lagos. Does it automatically mean that akure is not viable or economically prosperous because more people seek greener pasture in lagos.

For your claim about buying and selling, i gave an example of manufacturers in Aba and nnewi that dont have to leave there. You just ignored it and assumed everybody in the east is into retail business. The manufacturers are ok there doing their type of business and the distributors of those products are the ones that have to move around. Igbos are involved in all forms of businesses in the east and not all of them involve migration but i guess you see what you want to see.

I will say it for you to hear " My region is prosperous, economically viable and full of wealth but Lagos state is even more economically viable and prosperous than my region and every other state in nigeria including the SW states and fortunately lagos is in my country and i alongside millions of igbos can move there". If you think because someones state is a stone throw away from lagos then he has a right to migrate there and question people who come from afar as if they are refugees, why doesnt that SW immigrant stay back home in his town and LGA.

The question about why igbos travel to lagos when the east is prosperous can also be answered by any yoruba person or even nigerian who lives in lagos and is not from the SW

In all these you are not considering the fact that one of the largest markets in west africa is onitsha main market, you are not considering that nnewi as a town is one of the only indigenous manufacturing towns in the country. Am sure you have seen articles on all that.

As for your claim about igbos boasting about how prosperous their region is, you dont insult someone and dont expect the person to respond.

The feud between igbos and yorubas has gone on way before the lagos issue came up. You claim that we insult the sensibilities of our host. I just laugh.

In all the places we live in Nigeria, the only places we have gone into any violent altercation with the natives has been in the north and in those cases(plateau, kaduna) we were actually fighting on the side of the true locals against intolerant invaders. We have fought alongside the berom against the fulani in jos, all religious crisis that have ever gone on in kaduna, we have also fought alongside the natives against invaders.

As for every other place, tell me where we have ever invaded or forcefully taken anything that didnt belong to us.

The hausas have created strife every single place they have lived in from Ile-Ife down to Sagamu and even the core north. Yet you claim hausas go about without boasting about their region. Well they dont have to boast since they will turn yours into theirs.

Yorubas insult igbos at every turn then get surprised when we retaliate. Then they start demanding respect from the igbos, even those that arent indigenous to lagos will start demanding it.

Well this is my last post on this thread.

LaudableXX:


No sir, you are the one that still keeps trying to deviate from the topic by clutching at straws. I guess it is due to your poor understanding of the subject. You claim that Yorubas migrated in droves to Lagos in the '60s, yet you are attributing it solely to the fact that it was because Lagos was a former FCT. That is a sweeping generalisation. First, the proportion of Yorubas who migrated in the '60s, actually migrated to Ibadan, and not Lagos, due to the pursuit of higher education. Don't forget that the oldest university in Nigeria was first opened in Ibadan, in 1948.

Secondly, people from most Yoruba ethnic sub-groups had traded among themselves for centuries, and inter-marriages were common among these different groups. I am not an expert on Yoruba history or their migration patterns, so I would leave the Yoruba native speakers to actually shed more light on this. Yorubas migrating to Lagos, Ibadan etc, has been an age-old practice, which predates Lagos being a federal capital.

Thirdly, most Yoruba ethnic sub-groups (if I may use that term loosely) who engaged in trading activities, farming and hunting, transversed different communities across the Southwest from Akure to Ijebu-ode, Lagos and Badagry, while some ended up settling far from their homes. During their journeys, these sub-groups formed ethnic and social networks as a form of “social capital,” creating bonds of trust, to help them exchange information without documentation or official involvement.



The population of Yoruba folks who came to Lagos, was far less than those who went to Ibadan for business or education, and to cement family ties. Many indigenous Lagosians are not so bothered by their Yoruba kith and kin coming from other parts of the Southwest to join them in Lagos, they are only bothered about getting their due respect from all and sundry.

If I remember my history lessons rather well, indigenous Lagosians comprise of the Aworis who were the first group of indigenes within Lagos, followed by Tapa and Nupe people, the Saros or freed slaves who came from Freetown, Sierra Leone, Brazil, Cuba etc, found in the Aguda or Brazilian Quarters area of Lagos Island. These are all indigenes of Lagos.





You joined the bandwagon of f00lishness when you claimed: "I know you might be the typical yoruba that has never travelled out of the SW...." Very funny. I do not come from the Southwest or anywhere close to it. So I cannot really fathom why you jumped to the conclusion that I was Yoruba. I guess that is the default setting your brain has been wired to operate on....because you feel anyone who does not share your perspective must automatically be Yoruba. How silly. Was that why you embarked on a long rant about how Yoruba people carry out various forms of business, in different towns and cities across Nigeria? Well, it is time for you to stop digressing. The issue is not about Yorubas, but about why the Igbo cannot make a success of their endeavours, without trooping daily to Lagos, even though Lagos stopped being the federal capital 27 years ago. Yorubas migrating to Lagos, Ibadan etc, was an age-old practice, which started long before Lagos ever dreamt of becoming a federal capital.



I talked about buying and selling, because you had made an allusion to it in one of your previous posts. You chaps are quick to claim that those who do not leave their region to migrate elsewhere in pursuit of business, are lazy. My reference to trade, was to point out the fact that non-migration is not a sign of laziness, like you people claim. Those who provide solutions within their enclave and get paid for it, do not need to move from place to place in order to make a living.



My post was NOT about Facebook or Zuckerberg. For your information, Facebook was started in 2004 by Mark Zuckerberg, Eduardo Saverin, Andrew McCollum, Dustin Moskovitz, and Chris Hughes in the USA. They did not set up physical presence in other countries, until they had become quite successful in the West. In fact, Facebook's first African office was set up in Johannesburg in 2015, more than 11 years after the social media platform became successful. Facebook's success was not dependent on the founders migrating physically from America to set up a building or shop in another country. Ironically, they only moved into other countries, after they had become quite successful within those new territories, and seen the numbers of users emanating from there. At this present moment, Facebook does NOT have an office in Nigeria, but it has had thousands of users on its platform for years, who live within Nigeria. Yes or No? In fact, over 11 million Nigerians are on Facebook, as at 2013 forming one of Facebook's largest user base in sub-saharan Africa.

Not all tech giants need to migrate across borders physically, in order to gain new markets or become successful. Thanks to the internet.

Now, I did not tell any Nigerian not to move about in his own country. Where exactly did I do that? I merely sought to know the reason why your people move into other parts of the country, if your own region is so prosperous, economically viable and so full of potential. There is a difference between seeking to know the purpose or cause of an event, and asking people to stop carrying out such an event. So please do not tell lies. You are an adult, and you should not be found spinning webs of falsehood.



Lagos was NOT Nigeria's first capital. I have clearly shown you the other places that served as the nation's first capital. Calabar was the nation's first capital before Lagos. And even in Lagos, the federal capital was restricted to Lagos Island, Apapa and a few other areas. Yaba, Ikeja, Maryland, Palmgrove, Ogudu Ilupeju were parts of old Western region.

Now whatever position, your Southeastern people decide to put themselves in, is really not the topic under discussion. A lot of other ethnic groups migrate across Nigeria for various purposes. I even think the Northerners are the greatest migrants in Nigeria.

But, you will hardly ever find migrants from different ethnic groups (excluding your own) boasting about how prosperous their region is, and how full of potential its borders are, whenever they migrate.

Instead, they go their way, mind their businesses and relate with all and sundry, without making boastful claims or insulting the sensibilities of other tribes who inhabit the regions, where they do business. Not everyone can be an entrepreneur. And not everyone is wired to operate as one. There are people who make excellent academicians, professionals, researchers, technicians etc.

Now let us get back to the topic. A region that is said to be prosperous and full of potentials whose indigenes flock out of its borders in droves to seek opportunities elsewhere, is a contradiction in terms. Its people would not be migrating out of their region daily, to seek opportunities elsewhere, if it was truly full of potentials.

Finally, there is no need for any further long epistles on this matter. It is unlikely that we would come to a convergence, on any salient points. So let me take my leave.

God bless your wisdom. Just look the way you dissected him. This is total knock out. How can someone claiming to be educated asking a dull question. Spit.

LiberaDeus:
As for your claim about igbos boasting about how prosperous their region is, you dont insult someone and dont expect the person to respond.

The feud between igbos and yorubas has gone on way before the lagos issue came up. You claim that we insult the sensibilities of our host. I just laugh.

In all the places we live in Nigeria, the only places we have gone into any violent altercation with the natives has been in the north and in those cases(plateau, kaduna) we were actually fighting on the side of the true locals against intolerant invaders. We have fought alongside the berom against the fulani in jos, all religious crisis that have ever gone on in kaduna, we have also fought alongside the natives against invaders.

As for every other place, tell me where we have ever invaded or forcefully taken anything that didnt belong to us.

The hausas have created strife every single place they have lived in from Ile-Ife down to Sagamu and even the core north. Yet you claim hausas go about without boasting about their region. Well they dont have to boast since they will turn yours into theirs.

Yorubas insult igbos at every turn then get surprised when we retaliate. Then they start demanding respect from the igbos, even those that arent indigenous to lagos will start demanding it.

Well this is my last post on this thread.

No, post more. Yoruba insult igbo at every turn, where is the statistics to that. This one too has started their normal victim cry after he has been defeated. Victim criers.

Strikethem:
No, post more. Yoruba insult igbo at every turn, where is the statistics to that. This one too has started their normal victim cry after he has been defeated. Victim criers.

You are a nonentity my friend.

You were waiting for your brother to come and give a lengthy rebuttal of my points, something you are intellectually incapable of.

Well i also responded to his rebuttal but reading is your problem, you have your ewedu mind set in stone. I cant help you with that.

You are asking for proof that yorubas insult igbos online and offline. Continue waiting for proof the way you were waiting for my grammatical correction.

Stupid useless dirty afonja.

I hope sey the OWAMBE don start for your side

IDIOT

LiberaDeus:


You are a nonentity my friend.

You were waiting for your brother to come and give a lengthy rebuttal of my points, something you are intellectually incapable of.

Well i also responded to his rebuttal but reading is your problem, you have your ewedu mind set in stone. I cant help you with that.

You are asking for proof that yorubas insult igbos online and offline. Continue waiting for proof the way you were waiting for my grammatical correction.

Stupid useless dirty afonja.

I hope sey the OWAMBE don start for your side

IDIOT

I know you are the son of the president, ode. Oga carry your victim cry away from here. Eru Owo. You better talk truth, you are really looking for where they are doing owanbe to feed your hungry stomach. Thank God, Yoruba people won't discriminate. Find one and eat and be fulfilled. OPONU APODA. OMO ALE. Who will read junks from a senseless being like you. It is a wast of time.

LiberaDeus:
Let me respond to this one. I didnt deny the existence of indigenous people in Lagos. I am also a student of history and i know the Aworis and Eguns had been in lagos ever since. But you if you are a student of history, you will also know that the most populous town in the SW in the last 200 years wasnt lagos, there were bubbling towns like Oyo Ile(capital of the old OYO empire), Ijebu etc. No one is also denying the fact that indigenous yorubas traded amongst themselves, even northerners did that nd had cities like Kano, Zazzau, Daura etc. But imagine stating that the overwhelming northern population in Abuja for example is still as a result of centuries old trade instead of citing federal example.

I am not minimizing the impact of trade in lagos settlements, but do you want to tell me that those who settled in lagos in the 60s from the SW hinterlands are responsible for all the yoruba population of lagos? Were there not later migrations in the following decades? Can you deny the fact that lagos is the most developed SW state when it comes to infrastructure and that is as a result of its former FCT status.
I dont see how you can deny that fact. If it was left for normal trade between yorubas without lagos being the FCT then lagos wont harbor this population. The fact is that what you guys seek for in lagos, every other person nation wide seeks for the same thing which is more opportunities.

Let me say something and you can quote me " Lagos is more developed than any city in nigeria and provides much more opportunities than any geopolitical zone". This is as a result of the failure of the nigerian FG to industrialize and tap into all the potentials of the regions and states. Why are you surprised that people are migrating within their country to the place with the best opportunities. This doesnt mean there is abject poverty everywhere, or that every other state is an IDP. You guys always make it look as if igbos moving to lagos or other states is as a result of abject poverty or war in the SE but the state of the nation. I asked that question about lagos to point to the fact that Swners are no strangers to seeking greener pastures.

At the bolded above, you picked up an old article about yoruba migration and you are still telling me that the population of yorubas going to ibadan is more. I hope you are not referring to the present. I know up to 3 yorubas that moved from Ibadan to lagos for better opportunities. And am very sure hundreds of thousands of them troop to lagos for better opportunities. All ofthem i interact with ccomplain abt traffic in the town and how Ibadan is more peaceful, the same things many nigerians complain about. But they have no choice, if they want to work in many corporate firms and be exposed to better opportunities then lagos is the place to come to. The same for those in Ilorin, Ado-Ekiti, osogbo and the likes. Most yorubas i know here were not even born in lagos, they came to seek greener pasture the same way Emeka did, the same way Nosa did and even the same way Musa did.

Many more are still looking for more opportunities here because it clearly provides more. So i find it strange that someone that migrates from a 150km distance to lagos feels he has the audacity to ask someone that migrated from 600km to lagos why he/she came when the person asking didnt sit back home. The yorubas in the SW are doing what the igbos are doing in terms of migration to lagos and other big cities.

So i dont know how your write up about people migrating more to Ibadan for schooling is relevant in this 2018 when lagos provides educational opportunities and also business, entertainment opportunities.

Hello, again you have tried to twist the facts to fit your flawed perspective when it comes to the Yorubas. Just because you know 3 Yoruba people who migrated to Lagos in search of better opportunities because it was a federal capital, does not mean that a majority of Yorubas did so for the same reason.

My aim of citing the article was to show you that intra-ethnic trade existed among the Yoruba sub-groups, right from time immemorial. And the content and research carried out in that article is still relevant till today. Yorubas did not migrate to Lagos or any busy city within the sub-region, simply because of 'federal presence or infrastructures, or because of former FCT status' like the Igbos did. Their reasons for migration were far more complex than that, and it began centuries before Lagos became a federal capital, and it is still continuing till date, for the same reasons! How is that so difficult to understand? If you are splitting hairs just because I did not cite an article showing how Yorubas migrated to Ibadan, for the purpose of education, don't worry, there are several examples on the internet. Just Google it. Or do you expect me to spoon-feed you with info, every step of the way?

With regards to Ibadan, I am still talking about what happens within that city, in the present dispensation. In fact Ogun state and Ibadan have far more new industries opening up within their territories, than Lagos does. So shouldn't those areas offer more 'opportunities' than Lagos, for their fellow Yoruba counterparts? With a population of over 3 million, Ibadan is the third most populous city in Nigeria after Lagos and Kano; it is also the country's largest city by geographical area.

At the time of Nigeria's independence in 1960, Ibadan was the largest and most populous city in the country, and the second most populous in Africa, after Cairo. Ibadan was the centre of administration of the old Western Region, since the days of the British colonial rule. The principal inhabitants of the city were (and are still) the Yorubas, as well as various communities from other parts of the country.

So the subject under discussion is NOT about the infrastructure in Lagos. The subject is the reason why Igbos migrate to Lagos. You were the one who turned the topic into 'why Igbos migrate vs. why Yorubas migrate'. Non-Lagosian Yorubas migrated to Lagos and other large towns in the Southwestern region, for the purposes of trade, social kinships, education, marital ties etc, and not solely because of the infrastructure in Lagos. And that migration started from pre-colonial times and has gone on till today. As for education, Lagos does not offer more opportunities in the area of education, than Ogun state does as at today in 2018. There are over 10 private universities in Ogun state alone, as well as public universities, polytechnics, colleges of education etc.

Port-harcourt also has infrastructure, an international airport and seaports. If presence of infrastructure was the sole reason for migration, why aren't there more Yorubas in Port-harcourt, than in Ibadan?

LiberaDeus:
As for your claim about igbos boasting about how prosperous their region is, you dont insult someone and dont expect the person to respond.

The feud between igbos and yorubas has gone on way before the lagos issue came up. You claim that we insult the sensibilities of our host. I just laugh.

In all the places we live in Nigeria, the only places we have gone into any violent altercation with the natives has been in the north and in those cases(plateau, kaduna) we were actually fighting on the side of the true locals against intolerant invaders. We have fought alongside the berom against the fulani in jos, all religious crisis that have ever gone on in kaduna, we have also fought alongside the natives against invaders.

As for every other place, tell me where we have ever invaded or forcefully taken anything that didnt belong to us.

The hausas have created strife every single place they have lived in from Ile-Ife down to Sagamu and even the core north. Yet you claim hausas go about without boasting about their region. Well they dont have to boast since they will turn yours into theirs.

Yorubas insult igbos at every turn then get surprised when we retaliate. Then they start demanding respect from the igbos, even those that arent indigenous to lagos will start demanding it.

Well this is my last post on this thread.

Violent altercation, is not the same as trading insults. Your people are known for dishing out insults, derogatory epithets and uncomplimentary remarks, about the indigenes of the lands they settle in. Their defamatory remarks insult the sensibilities of their hosts, and this is a well known fact. Out of the over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria, the Igbos are well known for doing this. The only thing is that while the Yoruba or Edo respond to your people's nasty remarks with similar putdowns, the Hausas, Fulanis etc would rather respond with their fists and daggers. The Igbos insult other ethnic groups, but when those groups react or retaliate, they cry blue murder. Don't try to switch the truth.

LiberaDeus:
Coming to your claim about migration. Let me state some facts for you in case you never knew. There are wholesale businesses ran by the igbos in lagos are extensions of the ones in the East. There are people that have a loyal market in the east but import through lagos and after years of success there eventually extend to lagos to set up shop. There are quite a number of businesses like that. In extending to lagos, they still need the services of their subordinates in the east, so some of the business migrants you see in lagos are coming to extend already existing businesses.

As for my region being prosperous, yes it is prosperous but lagos has more opportunities and is more prosperous, thats is not sth to hide. I can say the same thing for any other region or state. And if you are claiming that you are not telling anybody to stay in his region and not migrate, why are you surprised that somebody who prospers in the east is migrating to lagos.

Which type of logic is that, for the fact that you have free rights of movement, why wont you take risks and expand. People are not leaving the east because they are suffering there, no, quite far from it, they are leaving because they love the adventure, love to take risks and there is always more to be made. Simple.

If people migrate from akure to lagos this year, is it because akure has turned into an IDP or because they can make more in lagos. Does it automatically mean that akure is not viable or economically prosperous because more people seek greener pasture in lagos.

For your claim about buying and selling, i gave an example of manufacturers in Aba and nnewi that dont have to leave there. You just ignored it and assumed everybody in the east is into retail business. The manufacturers are ok there doing their type of business and the distributors of those products are the ones that have to move around. Igbos are involved in all forms of businesses in the east and not all of them involve migration but i guess you see what you want to see.

I will say it for you to hear " My region is prosperous, economically viable and full of wealth but Lagos state is even more economically viable and prosperous than my region and every other state in nigeria including the SW states and fortunately lagos is in my country and i alongside millions of igbos can move there". If you think because someones state is a stone throw away from lagos then he has a right to migrate there and question people who come from afar as if they are refugees, why doesnt that SW immigrant stay back home in his town and LGA.

The question about why igbos travel to lagos when the east is prosperous can also be answered by any yoruba person or even nigerian who lives in lagos and is not from the SW

In all these you are not considering the fact that one of the largest markets in west africa is onitsha main market, you are not considering that nnewi as a town is one of the only indigenous manufacturing towns in the country. Am sure you have seen articles on all that.

Nobody denies that wholesale businesses do not exist in the Southeast. In fact, if you dig deep, you would discover that quite a number of those businesses, were started from Lagos or the southwestern region by your Igbo people, before they chose to expand into the Southeast. Emzor Pharmaceuticals is one. Genesis Deluxe Cinemas & Hotels is another, just like Nestoil etc. But the reasons for many of your people's exodus into Lagos, is hardly to expand existing businesses in the Southeast. Try and be truthful for once.

Many of the youths who disembark from luxurious buses as they migrate daily into Lagos and other Southwestern commercial towns lack jobs, or even businesses. Some even lack accommodation. They simply see Lagos as an El Dorado, where they think their fortunes will be made, once they alight at the motorparks. Their exodus into Lagos has been well-documented over the years.

The proportion of Igbo businessmen who come to Lagos to expand their business, are much fewer than the proportion of unemployed Igbo youths, who stream into Lagos trying to get a hustle to improve their fortunes. Too many of them will tell you, that there is nothing for them in the Southeast. And if they don't come to Lagos, they cannot make progress.

LaudableXX:


Hello, again you have tried to twist the facts to fit your flawed perspective when it comes to the Yorubas. Just because you know 3 Yoruba people who migrated to Lagos in search of better opportunities because it was a federal capital, does not mean that a majority of Yorubas did so for the same reason.

My aim of citing the article was to show you that intra-ethnic trade existed among the Yoruba sub-groups, right from time immemorial. And the content and research carried out in that article is still relevant till today. Yorubas did not migrate to Lagos or any busy city within the sub-region, simply because of 'federal presence or infrastructures, of former FCT status' like the Igbos did. Their reasons for migration were far more complex than that, and it began centuries before Lagos became a federal capital, and it is still continuing till date, for the same reasons! How is that so difficult to understand? If you are splitting hairs just because I did not cite an article showing how Yorubas migrated to Ibadan, for the purpose of education, don't worry, there are several examples on the internet. Just Google it. Or do you expect me to spoon-feed you with info, every step of the way?

With regards to Ibadan, I am still talking about what happens within that city, in the present dispensation. In fact Ogun state and Ibadan have far more new industries opening up within their territories, than Lagos does. So should those areas offer more 'opportunities' for their fellow Yoruba counterparts? With a population of over 3 million, Ibadan is the third most populous city in Nigeria after Lagos and Kano; it is also the country's largest city by geographical area.

At the time of Nigeria's independence in 1960, Ibadan was the largest and most populous city in the country, and the second most populous in Africa, after Cairo. Ibadan was the centre of administration of the old Western Region, since the days of the British colonial rule. The principal inhabitants of the city were (and are still) the Yorubas, as well as various communities from other parts of the country.

So the subject under discussion is NOT about the infrastructure in Lagos. The subject is the reasons why non-Lagosian Yorubas migrated - i.e. non-Lagosian Yorubas migrated to Lagos and other large towns in the Southwestern region, for the purposes of trade, social kinships, education, marital ties etc, and not solely because of the infrastructure in Lagos. And that migration started from pre-colonial times and has gone on till today.

Port-harcourt also has infrastructure, an international airport and seaports. If presence of infrastructure was the sole reason for migration, why aren't there more Yorubas in Port-harcourt, than in Ibadan?

Making claims doesnt make them true.

I know 3 yorubas from ibadan, thats right

I know more than 50 that didnt grow up in lagos but came after tertiary education to land a job. Is there anything strange there.

Could this be another source of argument? Do you want to honestly deny that a sizeable chunk of yorubas in lagos are there because of corporate and business opportunities as a result of FGs investment?

If you are arguing whether a majority of yorubas did so for the same reason, then please kindly explain why Oshogbo doesnt have the same yoruba population strength as lagos or even Ado-Ekiti. From your logic, they were all trading together and migrating together, so why did most settle in lagos?

Kindly read the article here and see the summarized history of migration into lagos

http://www.republic.com.ng/junejuly-2017/capitalism-central/

I never denied the fact that there were indigenous people in lagos or the fact there were migration waves into lagos even before independence, i only explained that the unusual population ratio is as a result of greater opportunities due to federal presence.

Go to abuja and see how many yorubas are there. Why are there more yorubas in abuja than in makurdi, why are there more yorubas in kano and kaduna than in kebbi. Are you trying to re explain human migrational behaviour.

Think of a state being the FCT, then think of over 250 parastatals and MDAs within that state, think of all the foreign companies that choose to do business there, think of all the shipping companies in the state. Then honestly tell me that employment opportunities in lagos hasnt been greater than other SW states.

I dont know why you are trying to minimize the federal effect on lagos. If lagos has a population of over 10 million yorubas, please how can you tell me that you cant see the elephant in the room.

I dont think there is any disagreement here between us on this issue, you cite other factors that caused migration which i accepted but dont minimize the effect of the federal govt.

LiberaDeus:
Making claims doesnt make them true.

I know 3 yorubas from ibadan, thats right

I know more than 50 that didnt grow up in lagos but came after tertiary education to land a job. Is there anything strange there.

Could this be another source of argument? Do you want to honestly deny that a sizeable chunk of yorubas in lagos are there because of corporate and business opportunities as a result of FGs investment?

If you are arguing whether a majority of yorubas did so for the same reason, then please kindly explain why Oshogbo doesnt have the same yoruba population strength as lagos or even Ado-Ekiti. From your logic, they were all trading together and migrating together, so why did most settle in lagos?

Kindly read the article here and see the summarized history of migration into lagos

http://www.republic.com.ng/junejuly-2017/capitalism-central/

I never denied the fact that there were indigenous people in lagos or the fact there were migration waves into lagos even before independence, i only explained that the unusual population ratio is as a result of greater opportunities due to federal presence.

Go to abuja and see how many yorubas are there. Why are there more yorubas in abuja than in makurdi, why are there more yorubas in kano and kaduna than in kebbi. Are you trying to re explain human migrational behaviour.

Think of a state being the FCT, then think of over 250 parastatals and MDAs within that state, think of all the foreign companies that choose to do business there, think of all the shipping companies in the state. Then honestly tell me that employment opportunities in lagos hasnt been greater than other SW states.

I dont know why you are trying to minimize the federal effect on lagos. If lagos has a population of over 10 million yorubas, please how can you tell me that you cant see the elephant in the room.

I dont think there is any disagreement here between us on this issue, you cite other factors that caused migration which i accepted but dont minimize the effect of the federal govt.

For your Igbo people, the fact that Lagos was an FCT with infrastructure, was the main reason they migrated to Lagos, according to you. But for the Yoruba people, the FCT status of Lagos and its infrastructure was NOT the sole reason they migrated to Lagos. In fact, it was quite minimal. Migration patterns among the Yorubas predated federal status, and had to do with trade, social kinships, education, community relationships, marital ties etc, right from pre-colonial times. There are studies and evidence that support this fact. You are free to continue clutching at straws, by ascribing everybody's movt to federal presence which ended in Lagos, over 27 years ago....

LaudableXX:


Violent altercation, is not the same as trading insults. Your people are known for dishing out insults, derogatory epithets and uncomplimentary remarks, about the indigenes of the lands they settle in. Their defamatory remarks insult the sensibilities of their hosts, and this is a well known fact. Out of the over 250 ethnic groups in Nigeria, the Igbos are well known for doing this. The only thing is that while the Yoruba or Edo respond to your people's nasty remarks with similar putdowns, the Hausas, Fulanis etc would rather respond with their fists and daggers. The Igbos insult other ethnic groups, but when those groups react or retaliate, they cry blue murder. Don't try to switch the truth.

I gave you an example of 3 yorubas i knew that moved from Ibadan and you asked how i can generalize from 3 people.

Please i want to ask as per the bolded, how did you reach that conclusion?

You want to use NL as an example, should we start trying to dig up facts to prove which tribe started insulting each other here or on other social media platforms.

Am sorry man, i cant take your bold baseless assertion as truth, its just purely subjective.

Let me tell you something about the hausa fulanis that you dont seem to know.

Hausas migrate to places and forget their ancestry, they give birth to multiple kids that eventually dont bother about their prior state of origin and its only a matter of time before they start clashing with locals over issues like religion and other petty skirmishes. These things blow out into full scale crises.

It has happened in Plateau, Kaduna, Kano, Niger etc. They also insult their hosts and call them ARNE and infidels and all sorts.

If you ask me where the proof of the pudding is, i will simply list all the religious and ethnic crisis that happened in the north and middle belt that involved hausas against indigenous people.

But for your claim about the igbos, your greatest proof would be social media of which we cant properly trace who started dishing out insults there.

You said the yorubas and edos just respond with similar put downs, what about the IJAWS, Ikwerres, Efik, Ibibios, Urhobos, Angas, Berom and every tribe we live amongst, do they also have the yoruba-edo habit of using similar putdowns? So in all the decades of living with southern tribes after the war, there has been no case of a violent crackdown against the igbos from these tribes and you want me to take your claims seriously.

You are the person trying to switch the truth because you already have a preconceived notion which is clearly anti-igbo. You try to spin all your so called facts and even minimize glaring ones to reach your desired conclusion.

LaudableXX:


For your Igbo people, the fact that Lagos was an FCT with infrastructure, was the main reason they migrated to Lagos, according to you. But for the Yoruba people, the FCT status of Lagos and its infrastructure was NOT the sole reason they migrated to Lagos. In fact, it was quite minimal. Migration patterns among the Yorubas predated federal status, and had to do with trade, social kinships, education, community relationships, marital ties etc, right from pre-colonial times. There are studies and evidence that support this fact. You are free to continue clutching at straws, by ascribing everybody's movt to federal presence which ended in Lagos, over 27 years ago....

When did i ascribe everybodys migration as a result of federal presence?

Go back and reread my post, i admitted other factors of migration and also included the federal effect. WHy is that hard to understand?

And if you say the FCT status ended 27 years ago, sorry but the effects dont end that easily. Families had been groomed already in the town and they got accustomed to the lifestyle of the town. Even if the progenitors of these families could have migrated to the new FCT as a result of work directives, nothing assures you that the mature children of such families will followsuit.

Even if Abuja is no longer the FCT, there are people that will never leave, the population wont automatically go down.

And lagos was more than just an FCT. It had and still has our biggest and most functional sea port and airport, it was home to tons of foreign businesses that were eventually nationalized. It has built a vibrant entertainment sector and even boasts good sport facilities and many other things that ensure continous economic activity. So why would the population dwindle.

LiberaDeus:
I gave you an example of 3 yorubas i knew that moved from Ibadan and you asked how i can generalize from 3 people.

Please i want to ask as per the bolded, how did you reach that conclusion?

You want to use NL as an example, should we start trying to dig up facts to prove which tribe started insulting each other here or on other social media platforms.

Am sorry man, i cant take your bold baseless assertion as truth, its just purely subjective.

Let me tell you something about the hausa fulanis that you dont seem to know.

Hausas migrate to places and forget their ancestry, they give birth to multiple kids that eventually dont bother about their prior state of origin and its only a matter of time before they start clashing with locals over issues like religion and other petty skirmishes. These things blow out into full scale crises.

It has happened in Plateau, Kaduna, Kano, Niger etc. They also insult their hosts and call them ARNE and infidels and all sorts.

If you ask me where the proof of the pudding is, i will simply list all the religious and ethnic crisis that happened in the north and middle belt that involved hausas against indigenous people.

But for your claim about the igbos, your greatest proof would be social media of which we cant properly trace who started dishing out insults there.

You said the yorubas and edos just respond with similar put downs, what about the IJAWS, Ikwerres, Efik, Ibibios, Urhobos, Angas, Berom and every tribe we live amongst, do they also have the yoruba-edo habit of using similar putdowns? So in all the decades of living with southern tribes after the war, there has been no case of a violent crackdown against the igbos from these tribes and you want me to take your claims seriously.

You are the person trying to switch the truth because you already have a preconceived notion which is clearly anti-igbo. You try to spin all your so called facts and even minimize glaring ones to reach your desired conclusion.

How did I reach that conclusion? From your previous comments. And from interacting with various ethnic groups, in different parts of Nigeria, and living among various communities in diverse sections of the country. In southern Nigeria, where did the issue of crackdown against Igbos arise, except after the military coup, prior to the civil war and during the civil war? I do not want to digress like you are fond of doing, but this attempt to paint Igbos as saints, and every other ethnic group as sinners, isn't going to work.

You have just played the victim card like your people are fond of doing. By making reference to social media, you forgot to note that anyone can do a content analysis of posts made on social media to see where the trading of insults began. If you have the time (which unfortunately I do not), you are free to scroll through all the posts and threads on Nairaland, to see where the exchange of insults began. Your people are often the agent provocateurs and when others give them a taste of their own medicine, they start wailing....

Just because I have stated the facts, you are now claiming I am anti-Igbo? Really? Why am I not surprised? Anyone who does not share the perspective of your group, is either labelled an Afonja, or tagged as anti-Igbo or regarded as Igbophobic. Typical!

LaudableXX:


Nobody denies that wholesale businesses do not exist in the Southeast. In fact, if you dig deep, you would discover that quite a number of those businesses, were started from Lagos or the southwestern region by your Igbo people, before they chose to expand into the Southeast. Emzor Pharmaceuticals is one. Genesis Deluxe Cinemas & Hotels is another, just like Nestoil etc. But the reasons for many of your people's exodus into Lagos, is hardly to expand existing businesses in the Southeast. Try and be truthful for once.

Many of the youths who disembark from luxurious buses as they migrate daily into Lagos and other Southwestern commercial towns lack jobs, or even businesses. Some even lack accommodation. They simply see Lagos as an El Dorado, where they think their fortunes will be made, once they alight at the motorparks. Their exodus into Lagos has been well-documented over the years.

The proportion of Igbo businessmen who come to Lagos to expand their business, are much fewer than the proportion of unemployed Igbo youths, who stream into Lagos trying to get a hustle to improve their fortunes. Too many of them will tell you, that there is nothing for them in the Southeast. And if they don't come to Lagos, they cannot make progress.

You are talking about wholesale businesses starting in lagos and moving to the east. While i am telling you that there are situations where the opposite is the case. There are many spare parts dealerships that started in the east and was utilizing lagos as the port and eventually they spread to lagos.

You clearly dont know anything about the east thats why you make such claims.

You cant be urging me to be truthful when you are trying to force your preconceived belief as fact. You are not part of the igbo social or cultural circle so you clearly dont know how things operate. Are there not major markets in the east? Where do they import from please?

Am not arguing about the fact that many igbos come into lagos from the east with nothing or even proper accomodation. I am only debating the fact that you think that is a sign of extreme poverty over there but you dont see it as a sign of extreme poverty when one migrates from Akure or benin.

And as you claimed you interviewed some that claimed without lagos there is no progress, i will tell you as you told me earlier when i metioned people migrating from Ibadan "Do not generalize". Or are you a reporter who goes to GIGM park everyday to interview all the people alighting from the east to know the reasons why they came.

Your claim or question earlier was this ; " If the SE is prosperous and economically viable, why do Igbos troop to other parts of the country including the SW"

Well let me use an example to buttress my point ; " If India was economically buoyant and prosperous, why do indians troop to the western world everyday?" I can also ask the same for China

I explained to you earlier but you purposely glossed over the facts, i repeat again " There is prosperity and economic viability in the SE but the equivalent in lagos surpasses it"

To use your logic: "If lagos claims to have one of the highest GDPs in africa and claims to be buoyant and very prosperous, why are lagosians trooping out everyday to the USA and Canada claiming there is nothing for them in Lagos? Why is there a high unemployment rate in lagos?"

If there are so many unemployed people in lagos and so many poor people, does it negate the fact that lagos is actually a land of great business prosperity? Wont it be foolish for people to look at reality from a one sided perspective?

The view you guys have of the SE is very skewed. You guys think that the SE is just a barren empty land aany thing going on there is as a result of people who bring money made from outside the SE.

Let me summarize once more; There are so many businesses that are thriving in the SE, so may opportunities, so much prosperity but like every other nigerian state including lagos, it cant be enough for all. People in the oil producing towns still look for greener pasture elsewhere, people in lagos still migrate out of nigeria(since lagos almost offers the best opportunities in nigeria).

Is this seriously hard to grasp?

Why dont you assume that all the immigrants from Kano are in lagos because there are no opportunities and prosperity in kano.

LaudableXX:


How did I reach that conclusion? From interacting with various ethnic groups, in different parts of Nigeria, and living among various communities in diverse sections of the country. In southern Nigeria, where did the issue of crackdown against Igbos arise, except after the military coup, prior to the civil war and during the civil war? I do not want to digress like you are fond of doing, but this attempt to pain Igbos as saints, and every other ethnic group as sinners, isn't going to work.

You have just played the victim card like your people are fond of doing. By making reference to social media, you forgot to note that anyone can do a content analysis of posts made on social media to see where the trading of insults began. If you have the time (which unfortunately I do not), you are free to scroll through all the posts and threads on Nairaland, to see where the exchange of insults began. Your people are often the agent provocateurs and when others give them a taste of their own medicine, they start wailing....

Just because I have stated the facts, you are now claiming I am anti-Igbo? Really? Why am I not surprised? Anyone who does not share the perspective of your group, is either labelled an Afonja, or tagged as anti-Igbo or regarded as Igbophobic. Typical!

Oga stop pretending, I have read your posts on other threads and i know your stance towards igbos.

There is no victim card here, somethings are just facts that have to be stated.

If you claim you have lived amongst various nigerian communities, why would you wonder if there is prosperity or economic viability in the SE. Based on the questions you asked and your posts am sure you are of the opinion that there is no prosperity in Enugu or Onitsha.

I dont have a problem with your stance, but its better we clarify it so we dont waste our time going on in circles.

Man sees what he wants to see

Can we peacefully end the argument and close the thread as it has no purpose again.

LiberaDeus:
When did i ascribe everybodys migration as a result of federal presence?

Go back and reread my post, i admitted other factors of migration and also included the federal effect. WHy is that hard to understand?

And if you say the FCT status ended 27 years ago, sorry but the effects dont end that easily. Families had been groomed already in the town and they got accustomed to the lifestyle of the town. Even if the progenitors of these families could have migrated to the new FCT as a result of work directives, nothing assures you that the mature children of such families will followsuit.

Even if Abuja is no longer the FCT, there are people that will never leave, the population wont automatically go down.

And lagos was more than just an FCT. It had and still has our biggest and most functional sea port and airport, it was home to tons of foreign businesses that were eventually nationalized. It has built a vibrant entertainment sector and even boasts good sport facilities and many other things that ensure continous economic activity. So why would the population dwindle.

You ascribed everybody's migration to Lagos, (including both Yoruba & Igbo) as due to federal presence & infrastructure, present in that city. Go back and check through, all your posts. You even said that was the reason why Yorubas also migrated to Lagos. I had to respond, to let you know that the reasons for Yoruba migration were different.

You still find it hard to understand that a host of other reasons mentioned earlier, which predate the colonial period, have influenced patterns of migration among Yoruba people, till date. You keep harping on 'federal presence, seaports, FCT status, infrastructure etc', like a parrot, refusing to recognise that these factors account for a minimal influence, on Yorubas migration pattern. If you cannot free your mind, how can I help you to see the truth?

From the colonial period till now, other types of infrastructure have been developed in many cities across Nigeria. Akwa Ibom now boasts of a world class stadium and entertainment centres, even better than Lagos. Yet your people still flock to Lagos daily, 27 years after it stopped being a federal capital.

Onne sea port covers an area of 2,538.115 hectares and has one of the biggest harbour mobile cranes in Africa (Liebherr 600), in addition to accounting for over 65% of export cargo through Nigerian sea ports, yet your people still flock to Lagos daily, 27 years after it stopped being a federal capital.

Port Harcourt International airport is the third largest airport in Nigeria, located in Omagwa in Port Harcourt, and it handled just over 1.2 million passengers in 2009, yet your people still flock to Lagos daily, 27 years after it stopped being a federal capital. We understand that Lagos is a magnet for your brethren....

LiberaDeus:
Oga stop pretending, I have read your posts on other threads and i know your stance towards igbos.

There is no victim card here, somethings are just facts that have to be stated.

If you claim you have lived amongst various nigerian communities, why would you wonder if there is prosperity or economic viability in the SE. Based on the questions you asked and your posts am sure you are of the opinion that there is no prosperity in Enugu or Onitsha.

I dont have a problem with your stance, but its better we clarify it so we dont waste our time going on in circles.

Man sees what he wants to see

Can we peacefully end the argument and close the thread as it has no purpose again.

My stance? And what is my stance? Is it because I have chosen to set the records straight, each time your people decide to make sweeping generalisations or try to distort the truth? Please go back and do a content analysis of all my posts on NL. And you would see that your claims are unfounded.

Prosperity in Enugu, Onitsha, Nnewi etc has not stopped your folks from migrating to Lagos, and the sad thing is that most of the migrants are not solely businessmen seeking to expand their businesses, or acquire new merchandise. The businessmen are much fewer than the youths. Many of the youths are those who feel there is no opportunity within their region and are trying to escape a life of poverty.

LiberaDeus:
You are talking about wholesale businesses starting in lagos and moving to the east. While i am telling you that there are situations where the opposite is the case. There are many spare parts dealerships that started in the east and was utilizing lagos as the port and eventually they spread to lagos.

You clearly dont know anything about the east thats why you make such claims.

You cant be urging me to be truthful when you are trying to force your preconceived belief as fact. You are not part of the igbo social or cultural circle so you clearly dont know how things operate. Are there not major markets in the east? Where do they import from please?

Am not arguing about the fact that many igbos come into lagos from the east with nothing or even proper accomodation. I am only debating the fact that you think that is a sign of extreme poverty over there but you dont see it as a sign of extreme poverty when one migrates from Akure or benin.

And as you claimed you interviewed some that claimed without lagos there is no progress, i will tell you as you told me earlier when i metioned people migrating from Ibadan "Do not generalize". Or are you a reporter who goes to GIGM park everyday to interview all the people alighting from the east to know the reasons why they came.

Nobody is forcing his preconceived beliefs on you, as a fact. You are the one doing so, by trying to wave away salient points that have been made, and pushing one narrative across as the sole perspective that everyone should accept.

LiberaDeus:
To use your logic: "If lagos claims to have one of the highest GDPs in africa and claims to be buoyant and very prosperous, why are lagosians trooping out everyday to the USA and Canada claiming there is nothing for them in Lagos? Why is there a high unemployment rate in lagos?"

If there are so many unemployed people in lagos and so many poor people, does it negate the fact that lagos is actually a land of great business prosperity? Wont it be foolish for people to look at reality from a one sided perspective?

The view you guys have of the SE is very skewed. You guys think that the SE is just a barren empty land aany thing going on there is as a result of people who bring money made from outside the SE.

Lagosians troop out of Lagos to USA and Canada, for a host of reasons. It would be wrong to ascribe just one factor, to the purpose for their migration. Meanwhile, that is what you have been doing - by pushing forward your sole "federal presence, FCT status, better infrastructure, seaport etc," theory. There are huge reasons for high unemployment rate within the country, and not just Lagos. Delving into those reasons, would derail this thread.

And as far as one-sided perspectives are concerned, you have an honorary degree in that aspect, sir. I leave the floor to you. You cannot know my view of the Southeast, as I have never used the words "barren empty land" to describe your region. So why are you trying to spin a false narrative about my view of the SE?

LaudableXX:


You ascribed everybody's migration to Lagos, (including both Yoruba & Igbo) as due to federal presence & infrastructure, present in that city. Go back and check through, all your posts. You even said that was the reason why Yorubas also migrated to Lagos. I had to respond, to let you know that the reasons for Yoruba migration were different.

You still find it hard to understand that a host of other reasons mentioned earlier, which predate the colonial period, have influenced patterns of migration among Yoruba people, till date. You keep harping on 'federal presence, seaports, FCT status, infrastructure etc', like a parrot, refusing to recognise that these factors account for a minimal influence, on Yorubas migration pattern. If you cannot free your mind, how can I help you to see the truth?

From the colonial period till now, other types of infrastructure have been developed in many cities across Nigeria. Akwa Ibom now boasts of world class stadiums and entertainment centres, even better than Lagos. Yet your people still flock to Lagos daily, 27 years after it stopped being a federal capital.

Onne sea port covers an area of 2,538.115 hectares and has one of the biggest harbour mobile cranes in Africa (Liebherr 600), in addition to accounting for over 65% of export cargo through Nigerian sea ports, yet your people still flock to Lagos daily, 27 years after it stopped being a federal capital.

Port Harcourt International airport is the third largest airport in Nigeria, located in Omagwa in Port Harcourt, and it handled just over 1.2 million passengers in 2009, yet your people still flock to Lagos daily, 27 years after it stopped being a federal capital. We understand that Lagos is a magnet for your brethren....

Oga i dont have strength for this back and forth. Read my posts again and see if i ever singled out federal presence as the only reason for migration to lagos or the major reason. There is a difference between only and major.

Oga, go to Onne and you will see tons of igbos there.

You claim to have interacted with so many people but i seriously doubt.

Go to port harcourt and see the large population of igbos there.

Igbos were in akwa ibom trading way even before Akpabios transformation so is it now that there wont be igbos there.

All the states you mentioned have large populations of igbos but not as much as lagos because of technical issues.

Please read the links below and see if Onne port and calabar port can handle the traffic that lagos ports handle and whose fault that is. Is it the igbo traders that should build the ports?

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/09/eastern-ports-lying-fallow/

https://www.nairaland.com/2651102/why-rivers-state-sea-port/2

http://shipsandports.com.ng/calabar-port-not-functioning-sited-wrong-place-suleiman/

The way you said my people still flocked to lagos daily, please is there a problem with that.

If there are opportunities for business and corporate jobs in lagos, shouldnt igbos go there?

If there are opportunities for retail and agriculture in the north, shouldnt igbos be there?

If there are opportunities all around the country, there is nothing that should stop people from taking it, after all its their country

There are numerous billionaires in nigeria that are still taking advantages of new industries, is that a crime?

That Dangote has diversified into the petrochemical industry, does it mean that the cement industry wasnt prosperous?

You are just blabbing and making no sense, i have given you examples and shown you that their is prosperity in the east but it can never be enough just like you still have massive poverty in lagos does it mean there is no prosperity in lagos.

You are clearly biased and you are desperately trying to paint igbo migration to lagos as a form of desperate refugee movement but you see nothing wrong with Yoruba, Edo and other tribes migration.

You are even talking about infrastructure in other places and am telling you that based on the migratory aspect of human behaviour, Igbos have behaved predictably by taking all opportunities both home and abroad. Even where there is no infrastructure, igbos go to trade and make a good living for themselves in unsaturated markets then you are now surprised that they move to lagos.

Go to Abuja, Port harcourt, Calabar, Uyo, Warri, Benin, kano, kaduna and every nigerian town and see if you wont see igbo business men there. From an international perspective, go to every continent and see if you wont see the chinese doing business there, does it mean that their country is poor.

When Great britain wa the biggest and richest empire in the world, britons still migrated and formed many new world countries like canada,usa,australia and the likes, did that change the fact that britain was a world power then.

How does migration undermine prosperity?

I gave you an example that you dont want to factor in. I gave an example of how lagosians migrate in droves to various countries, does their migration undermine the amount of prosperity in lagos.

Only in VI,lagos, i cant count the number of luxury ferraris and lamborghinis i have seen, i cant count the number of young comfortable millionaires under 40 in lagos or is it the corporate managerial class in lagos or the businessmen building wonderful structures across lagos. All the forms of prosperity in lagos cannot remove the fact of poverty in the city and no matter how widespread opportunities are in lagos, lagosians are still leaving the country just for the simple fact that opportunities in an undeveloped country like nigeria cannot go round adequately to every ambitious youth.

Yet you still stubbornly want to paint the SE as poor and later you will claim you are not biased.

And you are talking of freeing my mind, i gave you a more robust explanation in an article on lagos migration patterns. if you had read it you still wont be stubbornly persisting. The article clearly factors precolonial migration and other forms of migration from trade amongst yorubas and even coastal and fishing activity but the article also clearly explained the importance of the federal presence and corporate presence in lagos and how it affected immigration from all corners of the country and you still want to be blind to it.
http://www.republic.com.ng/junejuly-2017/capitalism-central/

Let me ask you, has migration from other SW states to lagos stopped since Abuja was made capital? If the answer is no, please why is there a problem if igbo migration to lagos doesnt stop.

LaudableXX:


My stance? And what is my stance? Is it because I have chosen to set the records straight, each time your people decide to make sweeping generalisations or try to distort the truth? Please go back and do a content analysis of all my posts on NL. And you would see that your claims are unfounded.

Prosperity in Enugu, Onitsha, Nnewi etc has not stopped your folks from migrating to Lagos, and the sad thing is that most of the migrants are not solely businessmen seeking to expand their businesses, or acquire new merchandise. The businessmen are much fewer than the youths. Many of the youths are those who feel there is no opportunity within their region and are trying to escape a life of poverty.

For the bolded, i can say the same for the youths from kano, edo, ondo and every state that has immigrants to lagos.

Does that mean that prosperity or economic viability doesnt exist in those states?

LaudableXX:


Nobody is forcing his preconceived beliefs on you, as a fact. You are the one doing so, by trying to wave away salient points that have been made, and pushing one narrative across as the sole perspective that everyone should accept.



Lagosians troop out of Lagos to USA and Canada, for a host of reasons. It would be wrong to ascribe just one factor, to the purpose for their migration. Meanwhile, that is what you have been doing - by pushing forward your sole "federal presence, FCT status, better infrastructure, seaport etc," theory. There are huge reasons for high unemployment rate within the country, and not just Lagos. Delving into those reasons, would derail this thread.

And as far as one-sided perspectives are concerned, you have an honorary degree in that aspect, sir. I leave the floor to you. You cannot know my view of the Southeast, as I have never used the words "barren empty land" to describe your region. So why are you trying to spin a false narrative about my view of the SE?

As for the bolded, you are the one with the pure one sided perspective.

If your perspective wasnt one sided, why are you surprised that people from a region would migrate to lagos when other regions are also doing it. Why do people from rich states like Rivers, kano and even ogun state migrate to lagos? Does their migration undermine prosperity existent in their state or does it just simply show that the opportunities are not sufficient for them.

Is it english that is the problem here?

Lets do basic semantics here

If i state that economic prosperity and economic viability exists somewhere does it also equally mean that poverty and unemployment cant exist there?

LaudableXX:


Nobody is forcing his preconceived beliefs on you, as a fact. You are the one doing so, by trying to wave away salient points that have been made, and pushing one narrative across as the sole perspective that everyone should accept.



Lagosians troop out of Lagos to USA and Canada, for a host of reasons. It would be wrong to ascribe just one factor, to the purpose for their migration. Meanwhile, that is what you have been doing - by pushing forward your sole "federal presence, FCT status, better infrastructure, seaport etc," theory. There are huge reasons for high unemployment rate within the country, and not just Lagos. Delving into those reasons, would derail this thread.

And as far as one-sided perspectives are concerned, you have an honorary degree in that aspect, sir. I leave the floor to you. You cannot know my view of the Southeast, as I have never used the words "barren empty land" to describe your region. So why are you trying to spin a false narrative about my view of the SE?

As for the bolded, i never said it just one factor that caused international migration. I know so many people that migrated for so many reasons other than economic prosperity. But i also know so many more that wanted to migrate for better job opportunities and a higher standard of living. Does the fact that they migrated from lagos undermine the prosperity of the town?

LiberaDeus:
As for the bolded, i never said it just one factor that caused international migration. I know so many people that migrated for so many reasons other than economic prosperity. But i also know so many more that wanted to migrate for better job opportunities and a higher standard of living. Does the fact that they migrated from lagos undermine the prosperity of the town?

LiberaDeus:
As for the bolded, you are the one with the pure one sided perspective.

If your perspective wasnt one sided, why are you surprised that people from a region would migrate to lagos when other regions are also doing it. Why do people from rich states like Rivers, kano and even ogun state migrate to lagos? Does their migration undermine prosperity existent in their state or does it just simply show that the opportunities are not sufficient for them.

Is it english that is the problem here?

Lets do basic semantics here

If i state that economic prosperity and economic viability exists somewhere does it also equally mean that poverty and unemployment cant exist there?

You know your problem? Even if the truth came and hit you right on the head, you would still refuse to acknowledge it. Instead of sticking to the topic, you digress and cite examples that are not related to the topic, or try to throw up analogies that are poorly linked to the subject.

There are several reasons why people from Kano, Rivers and Ogun migrate to a city like Lagos. But delving into those reasons, would derail this thread. You were the one who turned the thread into an 'Igbo migration vs Yoruba migration' issue, and sought strenuously to ascribe the reasons for such Yoruba migration to "federal presence, FCT status, infrastructure," theory, and responses were made to show you that was not the case, and the reasons for Yoruba migration were far more complex than that. I do not know why you want me to keep repeating myself.

Each group migrates from one region to another for a variety of reasons. Like I said earlier, the reasons for migration among the Yoruba people included education, social kinship networks, trade, marital ties, etc. Don't forget that the old Western regional government, offered free education at almost all levels, during the 50s and 60s. Many parents sent their wards from rural areas to commercial towns, to acquire an education.

You are good at ascribing wrong insinuations and motives to others, which they have not expressed. Now you are claiming that I am 'surprised, that people from a region would migrate to lagos when other regions are also doing it?' Chai! I have never expressed surprise that people migrate, afterall migration has been going on for centuries. My only surprise were the reasons you gave, as being responsible for the migration of different groups to Lagos. You initially went all out to ascribe migration by both Yoruba and Igbo groups, to the same reasons! And that was an error! Now, do I have to break this down into monosyllables, in order for you to understand it?

If you want to hold a debate whether economic prosperity and economic viability can co-exist with poverty and unemployment, please open your own thread and debate it over there.... Splitting hairs over an issue, may be your forte but it is a vocation that bores me.

LiberaDeus:
Oga i dont have strength for this back and forth. Read my posts again and see if i ever singled out federal presence as the only reason for migration to lagos or the major reason. There is a difference between only and major.

Oga, go to Onne and you will see tons of igbos there.

You claim to have interacted with so many people but i seriously doubt.

Go to port harcourt and see the large population of igbos there.

Igbos were in akwa ibom trading way even before Akpabios transformation so is it now that there wont be igbos there.

All the states you mentioned have large populations of igbos but not as much as lagos because of technical issues.

Please read the links below and see if Onne port and calabar port can handle the traffic that lagos ports handle and whose fault that is. Is it the igbo traders that should build the ports?

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2013/09/eastern-ports-lying-fallow/

https://www.nairaland.com/2651102/why-rivers-state-sea-port/2

http://shipsandports.com.ng/calabar-port-not-functioning-sited-wrong-place-suleiman/

The way you said my people still flocked to lagos daily, please is there a problem with that.

If there are opportunities for business and corporate jobs in lagos, shouldnt igbos go there?

If there are opportunities for retail and agriculture in the north, shouldnt igbos be there?

If there are opportunities all around the country, there is nothing that should stop people from taking it, after all its their country

There are numerous billionaires in nigeria that are still taking advantages of new industries, is that a crime?

That Dangote has diversified into the petrochemical industry, does it mean that the cement industry wasnt prosperous?

You are just blabbing and making no sense, i have given you examples and shown you that their is prosperity in the east but it can never be enough just like you still have massive poverty in lagos does it mean there is no prosperity in lagos.

You are clearly biased and you are desperately trying to paint igbo migration to lagos as a form of desperate refugee movement but you see nothing wrong with Yoruba, Edo and other tribes migration.

You are even talking about infrastructure in other places and am telling you that based on the migratory aspect of human behaviour, Igbos have behaved predictably by taking all opportunities both home and abroad. Even where there is no infrastructure, igbos go to trade and make a good living for themselves in unsaturated markets then you are now surprised that they move to lagos.

Go to Abuja, Port harcourt, Calabar, Uyo, Warri, Benin, kano, kaduna and every nigerian town and see if you wont see igbo business men there. From an international perspective, go to every continent and see if you wont see the chinese doing business there, does it mean that their country is poor.

When Great britain wa the biggest and richest empire in the world, britons still migrated and formed many new world countries like canada,usa,australia and the likes, did that change the fact that britain was a world power then.

How does migration undermine prosperity?

I gave you an example that you dont want to factor in. I gave an example of how lagosians migrate in droves to various countries, does their migration undermine the amount of prosperity in lagos.

Only in VI,lagos, i cant count the number of luxury ferraris and lamborghinis i have seen, i cant count the number of young comfortable millionaires under 40 in lagos or is it the corporate managerial class in lagos or the businessmen building wonderful structures across lagos. All the forms of prosperity in lagos cannot remove the fact of poverty in the city and no matter how widespread opportunities are in lagos, lagosians are still leaving the country just for the simple fact that opportunities in an undeveloped country like nigeria cannot go round adequately to every ambitious youth.

Yet you still stubbornly want to paint the SE as poor and later you will claim you are not biased.

And you are talking of freeing my mind, i gave you a more robust explanation in an article on lagos migration patterns. if you had read it you still wont be stubbornly persisting. The article clearly factors precolonial migration and other forms of migration from trade amongst yorubas and even coastal and fishing activity but the article also clearly explained the importance of the federal presence and corporate presence in lagos and how it affected immigration from all corners of the country and you still want to be blind to it.
http://www.republic.com.ng/junejuly-2017/capitalism-central/

Let me ask you, has migration from other SW states to lagos stopped since Abuja was made capital? If the answer is no, please why is there a problem if igbo migration to lagos doesnt stop.

Like I said earlier, it appears you are strongly averse to the truth. And you love jumping from pillar to post, citing unrelated examples as an excuse to digress from the topic, and twist the subject. How did this topic suddenly turn round to focus upon "the number of luxury ferraris and lamborghinis i have seen, i cant count the number of young comfortable millionaires under 40 in lagos or is it the corporate managerial class in lagos or the businessmen building wonderful structures across lagos...??" Who asked you? You like to major in the unimportant, and elevate irrational points into highly elevated works.

The reason why immigrants founded America, Australia etc are wide and multi-faceted. So by flinging them around on this thread, it shows you are just digressing in a bid to confuse the relevant issues.

Who is asking Igbos not to go to Port-harcourt, Calabar, Uyo, Warri, Benin, kano, kaduna?? Why are you just ranting out of context? Why are you so pained??

And sorry to disappoint you, Onne port is highly functional. Those articles you cited are totally outdated.

NPA deploys $30m equipment in Onne Port | Posted By: Oluwakemi Dauda On: March 23, 2018 |

The Nigerian Ports Authority ( NPA) has concluded plans to deploy equipment worth over $30 million to Onne port, Rivers State, it was learnt yesterday.

The measure, it was gathered, is being taken by the NPA Managing Director, Ms Hadiza Bala Usman, to boost efficiency, security and make the port attractive for business. Onne Port Complex is one of the key ports of the nation under the NPA, it is situated on the Bonny River Estuary along Ogu creek.

Speaking at a stakeholders’ meeting organised by the NPA at the Onne Port complex yesterday, Ms Usman, who was represented by the Executive Director, Finance & Administration, Mohammed Bello Koko, said six pilot cutters, tug boats and 17 meter offshore patrol boats, would soon be deployed to the port to make the port attractive and stem the cycle of criminalities within and around the port.

Although, Ms Usman did not state the amount of the equipment, but sources at Onne Port told The Nation that it would cost the agency more than $30 million to deploy the sophisticated equipment.The managing director condemned what she called indiscriminate anchorage of vessels and directed the perpetrators to desist.

Another stakeholder, Mr Felix Abraham, said the deployment of the equipment would assist the port in taking its rightful position “as a hub for the west and central Africa Sub – regions in oil and gas and has an advantage of accessibility, proximity to the Eastern commercial centres like Onitsha, Nnewi and Aba, among others.

“Activities such as pipe coating, waste treatment and boat building are provided by companies located in Onne.

“The port is highly industrialised with modern facilities and equipment that can stand the test of time anywhere in the world.

“It has one of the biggest habour mobile cranes in Africa, (Liebherr 600) with a lifting capacity of 208 metric tonnes. Also 220 Gmk 5220 grove twin cranes that has capacity of lifting single heavy duty cargo of 300 tonnes,” he said.

At the meeting were representatives of the host community, importers, clearing agents, terminal operators, investors and representatives of security agencies including Customs, Immigration, Navy and the police.

Also yesterday, the Minister of the Environment, Ibrahim Jibril, says the Nigerian Customs Service has intercepted elephant tusks and pangolin, worth about N1.2 billion, between February 15 and March 22.

Represented by his Permanent Secretary Malam Shehu Ahmed, the minister said in Abuja at a one-day workshop on how to combat illegal wildlife trade and international trade in endangered species of wild fauna and flora.

The workshop was organised by Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS), in collaboration with the Federal Ministry of Environment.

“On February 15, the Nigerian Customs intercepted and seized 55 sacks of pangolin and 218 pieces of Elephant tusks worth N493, 520,000.

“In less than a month later, the service intercepted and confiscated another 329 sacks of pangolin scales, weighing 8,492kg, valued at N732,857,393. http://thenationonlineng.net/npa-deploys-30m-equipment-onne-port/

Finally you claimed: "You are clearly biased and you are desperately trying to paint igbo migration to lagos as a form of desperate refugee movement but you see nothing wrong with Yoruba, Edo and other tribes migration. Yet you still stubbornly want to paint the SE as poor and later you will claim you are not biased...."

Your allegations are downright pathetic. So by clearly expressing a view founded on facts, you claim I am biased? So you want me to quarrel with the Yoruba and Edo, in a bid to please you? Didn't I say it earlier that your attitude is typical of the way your people behave, when others do not share their point of view?

You get rattled, lash out at them, call them uncomplimentary names, and accuse them of hating the Igbo. Why am I not surprised by your rants?

LaudableXX:



You know your problem? Even if the truth came and hit you right on the head, you would still refuse to acknowledge it. Instead of sticking to the topic, you digress and cite examples that are not related to the topic, or try to throw up analogies that are poorly linked to the subject.

There are several reasons why people from Kano, Rivers and Ogun migrate to a city like Lagos. But delving into those reasons, would derail this thread. You were the one who turned the thread into an 'Igbo migration vs Yoruba migration' issue, and sought strenuously to ascribe the reasons for such Yoruba migration to "federal presence, FCT status, infrastructure," theory, and responses were made to show you that was not the case, and the reasons for Yoruba migration were far more complex than that. I do not know why you want me to keep repeating myself.

Each group migrates from one region to another for a variety of reasons. Like I said earlier, the reasons for migration among the Yoruba people included education, social kinship networks, trade, marital ties, etc. Don't forget that the old Western regional government, offered free education at almost all levels, during the 50s and 60s. Many parents sent their wards from rural areas to commercial towns, to acquire an education.

You are good at ascribing wrong insinuations and motives to others, which they have not expressed. Now you are claiming that I am 'surprised, that people from a region would migrate to lagos when other regions are also doing it?' Chai! I have never expressed surprise that people migrate, afterall migration has been going on for centuries. My only surprise were the reasons you gave, as being responsible for the migration of different groups to Lagos. You initially went all out to ascribe migration by both Yoruba and Igbo groups, to the same reasons! And that was an error! Now, do I have to break this down into monosyllables, in order for you to understand it?

If you want to hold a debate whether economic prosperity and economic viability can co-exist with poverty and unemployment, please open your own thread and debate it over there.... Splitting hairs over an issue, may be your forte but it is a vocation that bores me.

Am sorry to say but you are clearly a liar. And you know what pathological liars do? They pin it others and even start believing their lies.

You asked a question about why people migrate out of the east to lagos and i simply tried to show you that the answer is not far from you.

You kept on bringing old stereotypes that have been over flogged on NL of how igbos just rush to lagos with no means of survival and tried to simplify the reason for that. For you igbo migration is as a result of lack of economic prosperity and viability in the SE but migration from kano, edo and ogun state is more complex i guess.


If i call you biased you will say am making an assumption.

So you realize there are several reasons why people from Kano and Rivers migrate to lagos and you dont want to attribute it to lack in their own case but for igbos it must be lack and poverty in the SE. Because your initial question of why igbos migrate when there is prosperity in the SE makes the assumption that if prosperity exists somewhere then outward migration to areas of more prosperity shouldnt exist.



I have used examples of chinese and indian migration to show that you cant paint a whole place black because there is actually a better place but you are still adamant and you even call it a poorly linked analogy. I gave you examples of people being unemployed in lagos and even seeking greener pastures abroad as proof that even when there is prosperity somewhere it still cant get to every single person but you are still purposely ignoring it and calling it a poorly linked analogy. Something that doesnt take a five year old 5 minutes to understand and correlate.

I have tried to be civil with you but you are no different from the other uncouth afonjas on this thread and on NL who go about yapping IPOB yoots and Igbos and yeasterners, you just try to be more civil and calm but i see the stubborness behind all that and most importantly i see that your ideology and political view of the igbos is as crass, parochial, hateful, myopic and tribalistic as any other anti-igbo person on NL.

For petes sake, i have read your posts on various threads and your single agenda on NL seems to be to paint igbos and all their experiences in a negative light. Why am i even bothering with you as if i can reach a conclusion.

You even ignored the links i sent to you to show why apapa is more active than Onne and calabar port. Why wont you ignore it when its sweeter to believe that igbos are purposely ignoring sth in their backyard and being architects of their own misfortune. If you had read those links then there would be no need to even argue about why lagos should always receive more migration from the federation as a whole

You love your lies and your belief and you hold it dear to you so please keep it close to your heart cause am not even trying to make you see your error again, when lies have built ones sense of identity and self righteousness then they may serve a purpose in that persons life, a purpose which i wont want to thwart.


Well done.