x

0balufonlll:





LOOL.

Here you go, both of you.

obalufonIII.. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE ..YOU ARE CAUSING MORE DAMAGE TO THE IMAGE OF ILE- IFE THAN GOOD . I KNOW YOU MIGHT ABUSE ME TOO BUT I WILL SAY THE TRUTH .YOU ARE DESTROYING THE SIGNIFICANT OF ILE-IFE AMONG YORUBAS... ARE YOU TRYING TO DEBUNK THE ROLE OF IFE-IFE ..ILE-IFE GAVE BIRTH TO ROYALS ?..IS A KNOWN FACT THAT ALL ROYAL BLOOD IN YORUBA LAND CAN SOME HOW TRACE THEIR LINEAGE TO IFE ..BABA MI ALAYEMORE WAS A KING IN EFON ALAYE BEFORE RETURNING BACK TO IFE TO BECOME ONI THE SECOND TIME AFTER THE DEATH OF ORANMIYAN.. ...I'M IFE MAN AND A ROYAL BLOOD TOO I BLEED FOR IFE DURING THE MODAKEKE /IFE WAR I FOUGHT ALONG LATE BROS YEMO ..AND CAPTAIN ..1999 I WAS AMONG THE SQUARD LEAD BY MY UNCLE A RETIRED ARMY COLONEL- THAT FOUGHT GALLANTLY WHEN THE MODAKEKE INFILTRATED THE ELEYELE AREA LATE IN THE NIGHT APPROACHING OBALUFON BURNING HOUSES KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE THEY ALMOST OVER RUN IFE WE HELD THEM FOR HOURS BEFORE REINFORCEMENT FROM THE INNER IFE REGION ARRIVED TO SAFE THE DAY.. I ALMOST LOST MY LIFE BUT MY RIFFLE NEVER LET ME DOWN..GOD FORGIVE ME

—-

x

Obalufon:


obalufonIII.. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE ..YOU ARE CAUSING MORE DAMAGE TO THE IMAGE OF ILE- IFE THAN GOOD . I KNOW YOU MIGHT ABUSE ME TOO BUT I WILL SAY THE TRUTH .YOU ARE DESTROYING THE SIGNIFICANT OF ILE-IFE AMONG YORUBAS... ARE YOU TRYING TO DEBUNK THE ROLE OF IFE-IFE ..ILE-IFE GAVE BIRTH TO ROYALS ?..IS A KNOWN FACT THAT ALL ROYAL BLOOD IN YORUBA LAND CAN SOME HOW TRACE THEIR LINEAGE TO IFE ..BABA MI ALAYEMORE WAS A KING IN EFON ALAYE BEFORE RETURNING BACK TO IFE TO BECOME ONI THE SECOND TIME AFTER THE DEATH OF ORANMIYAN.. ...I'M IFE MAN AND A ROYAL BLOOD TOO I BLEED FOR IFE DURING THE MODAKEKE /IFE WAR I FOUGHT ALONG LATE BROS YEMO ..AND CAPTAIN ..1999 I WAS AMONG THE SQUARD LEAD BY MY UNCLE A RETIRED ARMY COLONEL- THAT FOUGHT GALLANTLY WHEN THE MODAKEKE INFILTRATED THE ELEYELE AREA LATE IN THE NIGHT APPROACHING OBALUFON BURNING HOUSES KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE THEY ALMOST OVER RUN IFE WE HELD THEM FOR HOURS BEFORE REINFORCEMENT FROM THE INNER IFE REGION ARRIVED TO SAFE THE DAY.. I ALMOST LOST MY LIFE BUT MY RIFFLE NEVER LET ME DOWN..GOD FORGIVE ME

Please drop it. Hence,I will not engage him anymore, in whatsoever way on this issue. Forgive me,if I overstretches what I wouldn't want to do from the beginning but he pushed me to it because he Lied. Sir,I will do what God ordained me to do to make YORUBA RACE THE MOST ADMIRED PEOPLE ON EARTH....I respect you and hold you with great dignity....




Cheers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y1hYGUcspQ.... Maybe this little documentary will help.. efon alaye was mentioned

Olu317:
Names of heroes are only tucked into Oriki for ancestry reason and pride though supposed enemies are spited in it atimes. For instance, when Obalufon Alaayemore fled and at the formation of Efon Alaaye in Ekiti has an Oriki through his descendants that says,‘

Omo Alalede aimowo gba, toni ki won mu osa kotu a gbale oun ‘Omo Afigun rubo keru ba diye '..... Is this referring to the Iyas? ? ? I dont think so . But let me read your opinion

My opinion is that Obviously, the Oriki is at loggerhead with Oranmiyan and his descendants which is evident in Ooni's Oriki,which says,

‘Omo igun gbebo – mo re igbode
Omo igun la gba
Omo igun la je
Omo igun kogokogo lorule
Igun ile rin-in gbebo'......is this not showcasing prowess and pride of Igunnugun as a bird that is dreaded which is a taboo to be killed? There is more to Yoruba words in Orikis as it convey certain information that its meaning can be unravelled.

Meanwhile words do look alike but have different meaning in the same way Ogun(war) and Ogun (man of valor) are different entirely, which is the reason deciphering word or names and places is easy for a careful reviewer of Oriki's similarity in all of these communities and people with such epithet

My take on etymology on the supposedly ‘Alagada':-

Looking at the word in a loosely manner,the word seemingly fit in to description of someone who is :

1. Probably related to a personage that's linked to the defied Ogun( man of war) through ancestry worship of the ancestry of man of valour

2.Linked with Ogun(war) who remained victorious at all times.

One of greatest blunder by some people is the inablity to learn from well researched works that have even taken care of meaning of yoruba names even with many errors through omission or commission. Take for instance, ‘Ogun-usi' or ‘Ogun-wusi' does not mean,‘war germinates' but (man of valor has increased),which is different from Ogun(war). In the same manner, Olusi or Oluwusi doesnt mean, ‘ Lord germinates', but (kingship has increased). Despite circumstances of people's birth,the ancient Yoruba carefully crafted yoruba names according to lineages such as Kings descendants(even with problematic birth through IFA consultation), Priests descendants, votaries, chiefs descendants, citizens, slaves etc.

On my ancestry link to anyone who is called, ‘aLagada'

As far as I know,Oore is the core worship of Olusi and his reigning son wears the princely beaded crown and fully dressed in Olusi's Regalia in the town, at the time of the festival. So,Alagada does not fit to my ancestry because my house don't take care of Ogun shrine per se through historical and oral account. The custodian of Ogun shrine is the one in charge of it and they exist separately . The same way for Adifa/Onifa, does for IFA, The same way for Lanroye's , etc. So non do I know of the villain or Heroes' angle that may be linked to me but you may shed more light on what you know Sir.



Regard

Thanks for your insights and constant interest in Yoruba history, may God continue to guide you sir. With due respect, I think you are oblivious of the meaning of the phrase "alagada ogun", let me share the meaning with you.

AlaGada ogun, means 'one wielding a battle dagger'. Dagger in ancient Yoruba is known as "agada", according to the dictionary of the Yoruba, edited by Bishop Ajayi Crowther in the 19th century. Evidently, the term has faded off usage if you are not familiar with it. Dagger used to be called agada, while knife is called obe, and sword, ida, blade, abe, while cutlass is ada in Yoruba respectively.

How do I know about agada? Well, a little troublesome boy was member of my peer group when I was growing up, his name is Ojo, he is an Ebira boy. There was an elderly man opposite our house found of using the panegyric oriki to tease him. So, when I came across agada in the dictionary, I could relate it to Ojo, my childhood peer. His parents were such a wonderful people, especially, iya-ojo (OyinOjo) to us as children.

You might have heard of the word "awon omo gunbe" before? You'll find gunbe flashed in "ikirun agunbe onile obi". Perhaps in the ancient time, as common with the journeying northerners or other wayfarers, going about with dagger is an ancient culture of self-defense practiced by the Yorubas of old as well. This also reminds one of the sicarii from the hebrew revolt against the Romans.

Ojo Iberu

Ojo was a Yoruba icon that wielded battle dagger in the foundation era. He became a hero/villain (aseburuku-serere) as one may put it. His memorial was tucked in the oriki-orile Awori, hence we are called "omo agbo dere". There is a story behind this, I will talk about it in the book i'll produce next year, God willing. Agbodere is the "agbo" that went away to the bush as "are". Ere (boa constrictor) is the totem of the Danhome and many other tribes in Nigeria. They are families flung over the plains.

The veracity of this story is such that, when you continue to track it, it will take you down to the foundation of Danhome, @Olu, I believe you did have some first hand knowledge of them, the word e-gun in Yoruba antiquity is political, hence it was meant to taunt the founding fathers who splinted from the ancient Yoruba stock to form another colony of their own. The expansionist Yoruba labelled them "infidel" or "e e gun". Gun is the word for stab, crush, smitten or comeliness.

From this is the word E'gun, as opposed to Ogun, meaning "comely" or "worthy". Alada is Egun's national language, a-la-da in Yoruba is a splinter or "matchet bearer". Then again, their totem is the boa constrictor, and they do have a sacred house for it called Dan-home. if I'm correct, alada gbe is also known as gbekon gbe, and their oriki is revealing, "wanganvi, pekonu, aloje vi, aloje mapeko" wanganvi means progeny of the warlord. "alada" is akin to "agunmenu", where "agunmen" is akin to "agunbe". The amazon weird matchets during the Yoruba civil war.

The name Ojo is one that the Yoruba brought from their wellspring, (oruko amutorunwa) 'ojo-kure, alagada ogun', meaning "Ojo of Kure, the brandisher of battle dagger". Hope you see that this definition finds expression in the oriki? However, the appellation to his name are pointers to the same direction of Yoruba roots: kure (Qurayza) and he is also called Ojo Iberu, which I claimed to be Yoruba for hebrew.

Alagada Ogun

However, my inquisition to your oriki is that, if "alagada ogun" line exists in your oriki, and also has LUUSI present in it, then Iberu is a true cognate with "iberus", and that's yet another possible place the ancients' scholars want us to see. This is because Ojo is said to be from iberu, which is akin to Iberus, which is Greek for LUSITANIA, (the land of LUSI), which is today Spain. This means that the Yoruba forebears were familiar with the Mediterranean coasts before their migration, thereby alluding to such remote places in oriki.

By this token, LUSI is a name from a very different epoch than you might want it to be, its like you want to attach something older to something younger, such as making "baba" (Lusi) an "omo" for the glory of the moment. That's okay, but maybe the word is "oruko amutorunwa", names that the Yoruba brought from their wellspring, used as mnemonic in place names. Please don't degrade the name as it might be our common heritage in your care. Some words look quite recent but could be as old as inception, if not older.

Attestation

Well then, "agbedegbede oyinbo" is an attestation to the understanding of the ancient scholars, who were aware that the place they were talking about is beyond the shores of Africa or of the realm of the black race, but of the Mediterraneans. Lusitania is said to be from Lusus, said to be identical with Lysa, which is also akin to Ilisa, a place name in Yoruba. Lisa is a chieftancy title in Yoruba (Lisa bara ogo), but let us restrict ourselves to place-names, as that's when history is invoked.

The rule is, you must not stretch the word beyond the inherent syllables, otherwise you crash into another maze of words. Lysa invokes Ilisa, which is akin to Ilu-Isa, Ilu-Osa or Ile-Sha: all the variants have something to do with the ocean, "Ijesha obokun remi". Ilisan is another one, Ilu-Isan Ocean-town, similar to "Phoenician". All shares connotative meaning, with linguistic bearing pointing to the sea.

Yoruba's Hebrew Mnemonic

Remi is "to cross the sea or river or water", which is what "hebrew" or "iberus" mean etymologically: to cross the river. By this token, Ijesha equally means i-je-sa, journeying on the lagoon, seafaring: ije-bu, journeying on deep sea: ijebu-jesha, journeying on deep sea and the lagoon. Semantically speaking, these two words were combined because they mean the same thing, just as you have it in ikoko-ibaba, i-ko-ko is the same as i-ba-ba, where oko is oba, that is, the husband and father. "Koro" is the word, but it changed to "koko".

finally, the Yoruba ancestors were seafarers, they see life experience from mariners perspective: "igboke-gbodo wa" meaning "our activities in life". But the literal meaning of that phrase is, "our journeying through the hills and the rivers". They use their predominant experience as reality of life when that phrase was coined.

Same word, different places

Hebrew as a word derived from the same source as iberus, which is Greek for the inhabitants of the iberia peninsula. Whats interesting about this is the fact that the word iberus equally came from iba (river) and the word is a true cognate with the term "Hebrew", meaning people "from the other side of the river". Both variants iberus/hebrew derived from the same source, Ur. Yoruba have affinity to Greek tongue than English, hence iberus is closer in transcription to iberu than hebrew.

Now, there were two countries, one got her old name by migrating from a source beyond river Euphrates, while the other got her name from similar attribute as the first, due to similar topography in her terrain, beyond river Eber. Iberus now settles as ebro, and the people were called basque, just as hebrew came to be so called because they look up to Eber (crossing river Euphrates) respectively. Iber is the root word from Ur that means 'river', which inform the similarity of the names.

In Yoruba, Abata is the word for swamp. Also, there were various places known as Iba, and a family known to trace their source to Eba, who also reference their origin as owonrin, meaning migrants. The Yoruba "migrant Eba" is a cognate with the hebrew "migrant Eber" from Ur/Orun. Both have migrant status to their Eber/Eba appellations. Likewise, river plays significant role in their names, as the oriki of the Eba family (through Isolo) says, "omo olomi-ni-busun, omo osun f'odo r'ori, omo oniporogun l'ode Orun" its all river-business.

Like the word macabre, which comes from Maccabees, Iberu, comes from Ojo-iberu as an appellation at the foundation era, the word has also been reassigned to mean "panic attack" (iberu-b'ojo, Iba eru, where eru is fear) in Yoruba, meanwhile, its history is not lost as there were elsewhere where the other variants of "iberu" survive in pristine lexis and structure. Ija'ya or Ifoya are the true words for fear. The quest was to downplay Ojo as a coward historically, and that affected the semantic value of the word attached to Ojo.

Ojo is from the Ibadan tribe of the Yoruba, so it said "ibadan nile Oluyo le, nibi ole gbe njare oniun" (Ibadan: Iba/Eba and Dan, a man of Eba from the tribe of Dan), another way of saying this is Iba Oluyo le. He was banished from Yorubaland at inception by Oluyo as a rascal, and was vindicated by those who says "njare oniun". There is something peculiar between Ibadan and Danhome. The mythical version of this piece is to be found in Olowu (oniun) and Olubadan altercation caused by Osun. I use the oriki approach instead.

Interrelationship of terminologies

Agada-ogun is the dagger designed for war. Agada is like back-spelling of "a dagger". I also think the word "itage" is a modification of the word "stage": this is because "itage" up till this day connects only to "ere ori itage", meaning "stage-play". Nothing else to my knowledge is associated to "itage" in Yoruba. To 'tage' is different, it means flirt with someone else, and because that suffix is available, we never suspected that itage is a loan word or a modification of stage.

Certain words in many cultures has common meaning and common origin, taken to places by people who separated from one another, while some are borrowed from one culture to the other through contact. It takes great insight to find such terms and gazette them in their rightful place. When such happens, it is a "proof of contact" that might be beyond the knowledge of the students of the recent.

@Olu, I think you said LUUSI had a sword that is traditional to your household? What about it?

That's Alada.

@Metaphysical, baba. This is your area of specialization, enjoy this.

@Olu/obalufon111, make peace.

Opiletool:
I have been a silent reader of this thread, and I must Commend the painstaking effort you guys ha e put into shedding lights.

@AbsoluteSuccess
I saw Reno Omokri's piece and read through it. Then I remembered you mentioning on this thread, a verse of Ifa about a burning bush that is not consumed.
Could Reno be right?

This is the thread

https://www.nairaland.com/4826503/yoruba-origins-name-moses-not

I think one mistake Reno made was that he didn't make more findings about which dialects of Yoruba language are considered the earliest form before writing the piece.
Because, Ekiti people actually say "se" as "pick". For instance, "I picked from the ground" would be "Mo Se Nile". Not by any means saying Reno is right nor wrong. Just want your opinion on this.

thanks buddy,

i think i once did a thread here many years ago under 2prexios handle as to Moses being Olokun, which is an angle that favours Yoruba support for the icon that is so called. I don't think a people will support their enemy anyway, albeit the Yoruba supported Olokun.

Musa or Moshe? I think the one with the closest meaning to someone drawn from the Nile is Ifa-Olokun, "drawn out of [the tributary] to the sea", then Yoruba seems to see the word Egypt from the same perspective as Stephen in the act of the apostles 5 as "dealing subtly"-"Jibiti" which rhymes with the sound and idea of the hebrew for Egypt.

On whose side is the Yoruba language in that perspective? Nonetheless, Reno may know what we don't yet know about this though.

absoluteSuccess:


thanks buddy,

i think i once did a thread here many years ago under 2prexios handle as to Moses being Olokun, which is an angle that favours Yoruba support for the icon that is so called. I don't think a people will support their enemy anyway, albeit the Yoruba supported Olokun.

Musa or Moshe? I think the one with the closest meaning to someone drawn from the Nile is Ifa-Olokun, "drawn out of [the tributary] to the sea", then Yoruba seems to see the word Egypt from the same perspective as Stephen in the act of the apostles 5 as "dealing subtly"-"Jibiti" which rhymes with the sound and idea of the hebrew for Egypt.

On whose side is the Yoruba language in that perspective? Nonetheless, Reno may know what we don't yet know about this though.

More wisdom and knowledge to you bro!

absoluteSuccess:


Thanks for your insights and constant interest in Yoruba history, may God continue to guide you sir. With due respect, I think you are oblivious of the meaning of the phrase "alagada ogun", let me share the meaning with you.

AlaGada ogun, means 'one wielding a battle dagger'. Dagger in ancient Yoruba is known as "agada", according to the dictionary of the Yoruba, edited by Bishop Ajayi Crowther in the 19th century. Evidently, the term has faded off usage if you are not familiar with it. Dagger used to be called agada, while knife is called obe, and sword, ida, blade, abe, while cutlass is ada in Yoruba respectively.

How do I know about agada? Well, a little troublesome boy was member of my peer group when I was growing up, his name is Ojo, he is an Ebira boy. There was an elderly man opposite our house found of using the panegyric oriki to tease him. So, when I came across agada in the dictionary, I could relate it to Ojo, my childhood peer. His parents were such a wonderful people, especially, iya-ojo (OyinOjo) to us as children.

You might have heard of the word "awon omo gunbe" before? You'll find gunbe flashed in "ikirun agunbe onile obi". Perhaps in the ancient time, as common with the journeying northerners or other wayfarers, going about with dagger is an ancient culture of self-defense practiced by the Yorubas of old as well. This also reminds one of the sicarii from the hebrew revolt against the Romans.

Ojo Iberu

Ojo was a Yoruba icon that wielded battle dagger in the foundation era. He became a hero/villain (aseburuku-serere) as one may put it. His memorial was tucked in the oriki-orile Awori, hence we are called "omo agbo dere". There is a story behind this, I will talk about it in the book i'll produce next year, God willing. Agbodere is the "agbo" that went away to the bush as "are". Ere (boa constrictor) is the totem of the Danhome and many other tribes in Nigeria. They are families flung over the plains.

The veracity of this story is such that, when you continue to track it, it will take you down to the foundation of Danhome, @Olu, I believe you did have some first hand knowledge of them, the word e-gun in Yoruba antiquity is political, hence it was meant to taunt the founding fathers who splinted from the ancient Yoruba stock to form another colony of their own. The expansionist Yoruba labelled them "infidel" or "e e gun". Gun is the word for stab, crush, smitten or comeliness.

From this is the word E'gun, as opposed to Ogun, meaning "comely" or "worthy". Alada is Egun's national language, a-la-da in Yoruba is a splinter or "matchet bearer". Then again, their totem is the boa constrictor, and they do have a sacred house for it called Dan-home. if I'm correct, alada gbe is also known as gbekon gbe, and their oriki is revealing, "wanganvi, pekonu, aloje vi, aloje mapeko" wanganvi means progeny of the warlord. "alada" is akin to "agunmenu", where "agunmen" is akin to "agunbe". The amazon weird matchets during the Yoruba civil war.

The name Ojo is one that the Yoruba brought from their wellspring, (oruko amutorunwa) 'ojo-kure, alagada ogun', meaning "Ojo of Kure, the brandisher of battle dagger". Hope you see that this definition finds expression in the oriki? However, the appellation to his name are pointers to the same direction of Yoruba roots: kure (Qurayza) and he is also called Ojo Iberu, which I claimed to be Yoruba for hebrew.

Alagada Ogun

However, my inquisition to your oriki is that, if "alagada ogun" line exists in your oriki, and also has LUUSI present in it, then Iberu is a true cognate with "iberus", and that's yet another possible place the ancients' scholars want us to see. This is because Ojo is said to be from iberu, which is akin to Iberus, which is Greek for LUSITANIA, (the land of LUSI), which is today Spain. This means that the Yoruba forebears were familiar with the Mediterranean coasts before their migration, thereby alluding to such remote places in oriki.

By this token, LUSI is a name from a very different epoch than you might want it to be, its like you want to attach something older to something younger, such as making "baba" (Lusi) an "omo" for the glory of the moment. That's okay, but maybe the word is "oruko amutorunwa", names that the Yoruba brought from their wellspring, used as mnemonic in place names. Please don't degrade the name as it might be our common heritage in your care. Some words look quite recent but could be as old as inception, if not older.

Attestation

Well then, "agbedegbede oyinbo" is an attestation to the understanding of the ancient scholars, who were aware that the place they were talking about is beyond the shores of Africa or of the realm of the black race, but of the Mediterraneans. Lusitania is said to be from Lusus, said to be identical with Lysa, which is also akin to Ilisa, a place name in Yoruba. Lisa is a chieftancy title in Yoruba (Lisa bara ogo), but let us restrict ourselves to place-names, as that's when history is invoked.

The rule is, you must not stretch the word beyond the inherent syllables, otherwise you crash into another maze of words. Lysa invokes Ilisa, which is akin to Ilu-Isa, Ilu-Osa or Ile-Sha: all the variants have something to do with the ocean, "Ijesha obokun remi". Ilisan is another one, Ilu-Isan Ocean-town, similar to "Phoenician". All shares connotative meaning, with linguistic bearing pointing to the sea.

Yoruba's Hebrew Mnemonic

Remi is "to cross the sea or river or water", which is what "hebrew" or "iberus" mean etymologically: to cross the river. By this token, Ijesha equally means i-je-sa, journeying on the lagoon, seafaring: ije-bu, journeying on deep sea: ijebu-jesha, journeying on deep sea and the lagoon. Semantically speaking, these two words were combined because they mean the same thing, just as you have it in ikoko-ibaba, i-ko-ko is the same as i-ba-ba, where oko is oba, that is, the husband and father. "Koro" is the word, but it changed to "koko".

finally, the Yoruba ancestors were seafarers, they see life experience from mariners perspective: "igboke-gbodo wa" meaning "our activities in life". But the literal meaning of that phrase is, "our journeying through the hills and the rivers". They use their predominant experience as reality of life when that phrase was coined.

Same word, different places

Hebrew as a word derived from the same source as iberus, which is Greek for the inhabitants of the iberia peninsula. Whats interesting about this is the fact that the word iberus equally came from iba (river) and the word is a true cognate with the term "Hebrew", meaning people "from the other side of the river". Both variants iberus/hebrew derived from the same source, Ur. Yoruba have affinity to Greek tongue than English, hence iberus is closer in transcription to iberu than hebrew.

Now, there were two countries, one got her old name by migrating from a source beyond river Euphrates, while the other got her name from similar attribute as the first, due to similar topography in her terrain, beyond river Eber. Iberus now settles as ebro, and the people were called basque, just as hebrew came to be so called because they look up to Eber (crossing river Euphrates) respectively. Iber is the root word from Ur that means 'river', which inform the similarity of the names.

In Yoruba, Abata is the word for swamp. Also, there were various places known as Iba, and a family known to trace their source to Eba, who also reference their origin as owonrin, meaning migrants. The Yoruba "migrant Eba" is a cognate with the hebrew "migrant Eber" from Ur/Orun. Both have migrant status to their Eber/Eba appellations. Likewise, river plays significant role in their names, as the oriki of the Eba family (through Isolo) says, "omo olomi-ni-busun, omo osun f'odo r'ori, omo oniporogun l'ode Orun" its all river-business.

Like the word macabre, which comes from Maccabees, Iberu, comes from Ojo-iberu as an appellation at the foundation era, the word has also been reassigned to mean "panic attack" (iberu-b'ojo, Iba eru, where eru is fear) in Yoruba, meanwhile, its history is not lost as there were elsewhere where the other variants of "iberu" survive in pristine lexis and structure. Ija'ya or Ifoya are the true words for fear. The quest was to downplay Ojo as a coward historically, and that affected the semantic value of the word attached to Ojo.

Ojo is from the Ibadan tribe of the Yoruba, so it said "ibadan nile Oluyo le, nibi ole gbe njare oniun" (Ibadan: Iba/Eba and Dan, a man of Eba from the tribe of Dan), another way of saying this is Iba Oluyo le. He was banished from Yorubaland at inception by Oluyo as a rascal, and was vindicated by those who says "njare oniun". There is something peculiar between Ibadan and Danhome. The mythical version of this piece is to be found in Olowu (oniun) and Olubadan altercation caused by Osun. I use the oriki approach instead.

Interrelationship of terminologies

Agada-ogun is the dagger designed for war. Agada is like back-spelling of "a dagger". I also think the word "itage" is a modification of the word "stage": this is because "itage" up till this day connects only to "ere ori itage", meaning "stage-play". Nothing else to my knowledge is associated to "itage" in Yoruba. To 'tage' is different, it means flirt with someone else, and because that suffix is available, we never suspected that itage is a loan word or a modification of stage.

Certain words in many cultures has common meaning and common origin, taken to places by people who separated from one another, while some are borrowed from one culture to the other through contact. It takes great insight to find such terms and gazette them in their rightful place. When such happens, it is a "proof of contact" that might be beyond the knowledge of the students of the recent.

@Olu, I think you said LUUSI had a sword that is traditional to your household? What about it?

That's Alada.

@Metaphysical, baba. This is your area of specialization, enjoy this.

@Olu/obalufon111, make peace.

Greeting to you,I can see a knowledge learned from you even if there are slightly or multiple meaning to a collapsed word, or error by commission of certain information that is available online which its reasons aren't farfetched.

Addressing this issue, I will employ the knowledge passed down through my late father, other relatives and self research that I learned some information from over the years. Alagada ogun is present in another people epithet but definitely, the meaning is different. So, starting from the collapsed word of ,‘Alagada Ogun' (ala- agada- Ogun),which I strongly believe it means something different from the alaga ogun that you mean because these people are not war mongers' but peaceful and shy away from the glimpse of the eyes of the public.

Trust me ,I have no intention to degrade the name but one need understand what led to the usage of the epithet .

Take for instance, despite the fact that noticeable changes are present in Yoruba spoken language which has always been a continuum. Lusi's people dialect atimes has in it a voiced consonant /g/, which can easily substitute for /j/ in the below example until 21st century change that affect written and plainly spoken Oyo influenced generally spoken dialect.

For example:
Oje(h)— Ogeh — ancestor reference name,great man, extraordinary person, masquerade, metaphorical for someone whose face isnt seen easily etc

Another noticeable one is /j/ a palatal semi-vowel sound normally replace the Yoruba letter (y) in lusi's dialect in the below examples.

Eiye —eje— bird

More examples

O— È

Oyon— Oyen— breast

O dabo — È da bo


1. Àlà
This word Àlà is said to mean different things if used as prefix. But streamlining it to the analysis that you shared as it connect to, agada (dagger). Prioritizing the meaning from my knowledge on yoruba language such as ; ‘power'-ful, in charge,to have under one's care, to owns, to be in one's possession etc


2. Agada'
The word ‘agada' as being said by you do have a meaning of being, a ‘dagger', according to the pioneer dictionary but one need to understand that Samuel Ajayi indeed standardized Yoruba language and substituted some alphabets sound to that of Oyo's be it vowel or consonants, through the Oyo dialect. Unfortunately, as you have said the meaning from the angle of what you know as ‘AlaGada ogun, as 'one who wields a battle dagger' presumably in war persecution, which is different from what I'm familiar with. In fact ‘Uda'—Ida is being known as (sword), abe(razor) kind of, Obe(knife) Oko—(hoe) etc. So, Agada is personally not a universal word in Yoruba land .

This is just inline that Lusi people follow the ancient ILEIFE pattern of Umale—Imole worshiping some ancestors,which is different from Oyo and their likes. For example, Sango is venerated in Oyo but Lusi's dont venerate Shango.

Another important angle to this Lusi's epithet is that the Oriki carries certain elements of descriptive ancestry of his,which sometimes are wrongfully posted online to fit in to what something else mean as it seems. The same way there is a difference between,what ‘IGUN' which can not be used as a sacrifice in the part of his own side of his ancestors and Obalufon's descendants that HELD ON TO ‘IGUN' as a bird that can be used as one uses Cork for sacrifices.

Fragmented LUSI'S DESCENDANT'S Oriki goes thus;

Omo afi akuko finfin/funfun bo Oré
Uté Igbo(e) ni yen bo Oré
Okè s'Ibo yen Igunnugu
Omo oke ri ile.....

Fragramented OBALUFON'S descendants Oriki in Efon Alaaye goes thus;

‘Omo Afigun rubo keru ba diye,'

Beside this, Oluigbo who claim direct descendant of Obamakin Osangangan said,apari( bald head ) can't be an Oluigbo. Strangely, apari are anciently referred to as,‘Igun'. And I have not been able to fathom,the said reason in Igbo- Mahin tradition.

Thus, this only confirmed Sussan Blier researched work which showed that there were two powerful different ruling dynasties at loggerhead,which the two orikis separately identify with .

Beside,some epithet, names, object, statement are used within the location of the speakers of Yoruba different dialects, because of their new found knowledge, continuum of the language, past events,reconnection to past prowess through migration and new Contact with another set of groups. The examples are :

1.‘ Kare O ba'mi'

Kare o ba'mi which is a response of salutation by an elderly person to a younger one after the latter must have greeted the elderly person in a respectful way in a solemn manner,which different from the ‘Kare o ba'mi,which is a epiteth adorn on a king, through praising him to show his overlordship and control as the lord over all in his kingdom.


2.Prefix ‘Oku'

Prefix Oku such as Okusanya, Okusehinde, Okusaga etc in Ijebu are not derived from ‘Okú', which is a dead person. They are derived from ‘Okù', the Ijebu god of wealth which corresponds to " Àjè, Oyo and other Yoruba god of wealth. Funny enough oro (wealth) is anciently older than (Oku and Aje)


3. ‘Ika'
The name ‘Ika' (omo owo)which means finger, and an Owu descendants town is different from Ika , being wicked. Funny enough there is a legend on this name.

Ika myth in Lusi's case

A legend say about a group of people who bore a name as IKA who OLUSI, his descendants, and their followers met in a location they journeyed through. These IKA people were said to be very barbaric and oppressive in the shared location, to the extent that they could slit open the belly of any pregnant woman over frivolous reason, such as over an argument on what she would give birth to(power drunk). Thus, these people became a terror in that environment that war ensued between the Yoruba group and the said IKA people,which led to the extermination of large chunk of these people while others fled the environment. My presumably location is the ancient Ipole Owu ,which is somewhere in between Eyinta— Erin Ijesha. This is because Owu people were very terrifying when the were powerful clan in around 14-17 century. Perhaps, this is where IKA (wicked) emanated from!. Today, there are two Ika groups,namely Yoruba Ika and Ika( sub Ibo clans).


Lusi's main UDA—IDA (Sword) as being wielded on the war front to fit into ‘Alagada Ogun' ?

No, I dont know or didn't hear of such despite the fact that the Oriki says'‘ Omo Okè ri Ilè —Ala* j(g)a *da* O* Ogun.So,pronunciation and posted info can be ignorantly detrimental and confusing atimes because,Lusi's swords represent the insignia of his office and royal bloodline of Oranmiyan. So this particular sword is not easily seen or used in public because of the prowess and the myth attach to it except on Oré Olusi day .

Another myth says, at the conjure of certain epithet, praises or certain spoken words,if pointed at anyone ,the sword can dry someone's blood without slitting someone or going close to such person be it he or she dies at the sight of the sword.This sword is not an ordinary ceremonial but a powerful insignia sword which sometimes it is brought out to show its authority,when olusi appears in full regalia. It is pertinent to say that the sword won many Laurel to its kitty in many places from the land of Ipole-Ikole-Ado Ekiti emure -Gambari-Akoko Edo land while fighting on behalf of Yorubas or external aggressors. And because this,they have an Epithet also, which says,

‘omo à sè orè f'éni lài (máà) gbáà éjé'........

Funy enough,Derin Ologbenla did that when he saved the Ekimogun King's dynasty of Yoruba ancestry from extermination by Edo warriors- local chiefs conspirators in around middle or thereabout 18th century.And after the rescue,naturally, most rescuers' leader usually take possession of the throne through intermarriage with the princess of the slain king but instead, he moved back to OkeIgbo.ven at it,these people in question are too deep in the knowledge of the four elements of the world; air ,earth, Fire and water . Incantations of which oro—asé(word-seal) were their major strength. A typical example was a descendants of a renowned warrior Adulojun in Ekiti,who was a senior officer during Obasanjo-Shagari era,who wanted to take part of Lusi's descendants vast land in Oke Imesi,and the information got to a descendants of Lusi, called nickname as ‘Ba Alujonu'(late). The man went their ,did some incantation and placed his hand on the working tractor, not to work again. Loo and behold, the tractor didn't work since then and remained in that spot.The senior officer fled for his dear life.




*Note*
I will reply to others raised point in due time.Yet below is the description of the swords



Cheers.

Opiletool:


More wisdom and knowledge to you bro!

Amen my bro,

May God bless you with all the desires of your heart.

Olu317:


Greeting to you,I can see a knowledge learned from you even if there are slightly or multiple meaning to a collapsed word, or error by commission of certain information that is available online which its reasons aren't farfetched.

Addressing this issue, I will employ the knowledge passed down through my late father, other relatives and self research that I learned some information from over the years. Alagada ogun is present in another people epithet but definitely, the meaning is different. So, starting from the collapsed word of ,‘Alagada Ogun' (ala- agada- Ogun),which I strongly believe it means something different from the alaga ogun that you mean because these people are not war mongers' but peaceful and shy away from the glimpse of the eyes of the public.

Trust me ,I have no intention to degrade the name but one need understand what led to the usage of the epithet .

Take for instance, despite the fact that noticeable changes are present in Yoruba spoken language which has always been a continuum. Lusi's people dialect atimes has in it a voiced consonant /g/, which can easily substitute for /j/ in the below example until 21st century change that affect written and plainly spoken Oyo influenced generally spoken dialect.

For example:
Oje(h)— Ogeh — ancestor reference name,great man, extraordinary person, masquerade, metaphorical for someone whose face isnt seen easily etc

Another noticeable one is /j/ a palatal semi-vowel sound normally replace the Yoruba letter (y) in lusi's dialect in the below examples.

Eiye —eje— bird

More examples

O— È

Oyon— Oyen— breast

O dabo — È da bo


1. Àlà
This word Àlà is said to mean different things if used as prefix. But streamlining it to the analysis that you shared as it connect to, agada (dagger). Prioritizing the meaning from my knowledge on yoruba language such as ; ‘power'-ful, in charge,to have under one's care, to owns, to be in one's possession etc


2. Agada'
The word ‘agada' as being said by you do have a meaning of being, a ‘dagger', according to the pioneer dictionary but one need to understand that Samuel Ajayi indeed standardized Yoruba language and substituted some alphabets sound to that of Oyo's be it vowel or consonants, through the Oyo dialect. Unfortunately, as you have said the meaning from the angle of what you know as ‘AlaGada ogun, as 'one who wields a battle dagger' presumably in war persecution, which is different from what I'm familiar with. In fact ‘Uda'—Ida is being known as (sword), abe(razor) kind of, Obe(knife) Oko—(hoe) etc. So, Agada is personally not a universal word in Yoruba land .

This is just inline that Lusi people follow the ancient ILEIFE pattern of Umale—Imole worshiping some ancestors,which is different from Oyo and their likes. For example, Sango is venerated in Oyo but Lusi's dont venerate Shango.

Another important angle to this Lusi's epithet is that the Oriki carries certain elements of descriptive ancestry of his,which sometimes are wrongfully posted online to fit in to what something else mean as it seems. The same way there is a difference between,what ‘IGUN' which can not be used as a sacrifice in the part of his own side of his ancestors and Obalufon's descendants that HELD ON TO ‘IGUN' as a bird that can be used as one uses Cork for sacrifices.

Fragmented LUSI'S DESCENDANT'S Oriki goes thus;

Omo afi akuko finfin/funfun bo Oré
Uté Igbo(e) ni yen bo Oré
Okè s'Ibo yen Igunnugu
Omo oke ri ile.....

Fragramented OBALUFON'S descendants Oriki in Efon Alaaye goes thus;

‘Omo Afigun rubo keru ba diye,'

Beside this, Oluigbo who claim direct descendant of Obamakin Osangangan said,apari( bald head ) can't be an Oluigbo. Strangely, apari are anciently referred to as,‘Igun'. And I have not been able to fathom,the said reason in Igbo- Mahin tradition.

Thus, this only confirmed Sussan Blier researched work which showed that there were two powerful different ruling dynasties at loggerhead,which the two orikis separately identify with .

Beside,some epithet, names, object, statement are used within the location of the speakers of Yoruba different dialects, because of their new found knowledge, continuum of the language, past events,reconnection to past prowess through migration and new Contact with another set of groups. The examples are :

1.‘ Kare O ba'mi'

Kare o ba'mi which is a response of salutation by an elderly person to a younger one after the latter must have greeted the elderly person in a respectful way in a solemn manner,which different from the ‘Kare o ba'mi,which is a epiteth adorn on a king, through praising him to show his overlordship and control as the lord over all in his kingdom.


2.Prefix ‘Oku'

Prefix Oku such as Okusanya, Okusehinde, Okusaga etc in Ijebu are not derived from ‘Okú', which is a dead person. They are derived from ‘Okù', the Ijebu god of wealth which corresponds to " Àjè, Oyo and other Yoruba god of wealth. Funny enough oro (wealth) is anciently older than (Oku and Aje)


3. ‘Ika'
The name ‘Ika' (omo owo)which means finger, and an Owu descendants town is different from Ika , being wicked. Funny enough there is a legend on this name.

Ika myth in Lusi's case

A legend say about a group of people who bore a name as IKA who OLUSI, his descendants, and their followers met in a location they journeyed through. These IKA people were said to be very barbaric and oppressive in the shared location, to the extent that they could slit open the belly of any pregnant woman over frivolous reason, such as over an argument on what she would give birth to(power drunk). Thus, these people became a terror in that environment that war ensued between the Yoruba group and the said IKA people,which led to the extermination of large chunk of these people while others fled the environment. My presumably location is the ancient Ipole Owu ,which is somewhere in between Eyinta— Erin Ijesha. This is because Owu people were very terrifying when the were powerful clan in around 14-17 century. Perhaps, this is where IKA (wicked) emanated from!. Today, there are two Ika groups,namely Yoruba Ika and Ika( sub Ibo clans).


Lusi's main UDA—IDA (Sword) as being wielded on the war front to fit into ‘Alagada Ogun' ?

No, I dont know or didn't hear of such despite the fact that the Oriki says'‘ Omo Okè ri Ilè —Ala* j(g)a *da* O* Ogun.So,pronunciation and posted info can be ignorantly detrimental and confusing atimes because,Lusi's swords represent the insignia of his office and royal bloodline of Oranmiyan. So this particular sword is not easily seen or used in public because of the prowess and the myth attach to it except on Oré Olusi day .

Another myth says, at the conjure of certain epithet, praises or certain spoken words,if pointed at anyone ,the sword can dry someone's blood without slitting someone or going close to such person be it he or she dies at the sight of the sword.This sword is not an ordinary ceremonial but a powerful insignia sword which sometimes it is brought out to show its authority,when olusi appears in full regalia. It is pertinent to say that the sword won many Laurel to its kitty in many places from the land of Ipole-Ikole-Ado Ekiti emure -Gambari-Akoko Edo land while fighting on behalf of Yorubas or external aggressors. And because this,they have an Epithet also, which says,

‘omo à sè orè f'éni lài (máà) gbáà éjé'........

Funy enough,Derin Ologbenla did that when he saved the Ekimogun King's dynasty of Yoruba ancestry from extermination by Edo warriors- local chiefs conspirators in around middle or thereabout 18th century.And after the rescue,naturally, most rescuers' leader usually take possession of the throne through intermarriage with the princess of the slain king but instead, he moved back to OkeIgbo.ven at it,these people in question are too deep in the knowledge of the four elements of the world; air ,earth, Fire and water . Incantations of which oro—asé(word-seal) were their major strength. A typical example was a descendants of a renowned warrior Adulojun in Ekiti,who was a senior officer during Obasanjo-Shagari era,who wanted to take part of Lusi's descendants vast land in Oke Imesi,and the information got to a descendants of Lusi, called nickname as ‘Ba Alujonu'(late). The man went their ,did some incantation and placed his hand on the working tractor, not to work again. Loo and behold, the tractor didn't work since then and remained in that spot.The senior officer fled for his dear life.




*Note*
I will reply to others raised point in due time.Yet below is the description of the swords



Cheers.

Well said, I believe we learn everyday.

My take is that there is alagada ogun, its an ancient word of which i dont expect you to have an inkling except you have the same book or know of it other way round. The word is like saying "iganmode afele ja", you may not know what ele is, but the Yoruba who coin that word or who uses it know what it is, and it can be written in Yoruba language the way it is.

Agada is a word, there is no problem about it. It is different from alaga. I can't fault Crowther in any way, he know more than I do bro. Also "alagada ogun" is from "ojo kure, alagada ogun", maybe its alaga ogun that you have in the tradition that I picked from obalufon111 as Lajodogun/AlagaOgun.

I dont want to talk about the Igun because my take is different, Igun is the totem of the Yoruba matriarch and each time we make ebo, we are pacifying the matriarch in Yoruba. The matriarch is the matron of the babalawo, hence it is said of her, "Ajibola Abeni Olotu Ife, eye rere tii waje f'awo". So the matriarch has a name.

Aje (witch) is the same as aje (wealth). her bad was just that she was A-je, the bird came into the picture because she was a wander bird, eye-aje, she wandered about like a bird. From this developed all the mysterious things that the Yoruba love to believe and if you like to deny its existence, you are looking for trouble.

The matriarch was an auspicious bird, shes the eagle, the vulture, but not the hornbill, (akalamagbo), Ojo is the akala omo agbo. When they says awon omo akala, they mean "kalavi", but igun, they mean the matriarch, madam Ajibola Abeni. When she sneeze, all the Yoruba caught cold.

Why were the Yoruba not about terror for "awon baba?" as in "awon baba Aje"? because like Ethiopia, Yoruba was established under an empress. Her name is already given as Ajibola Abeni, and her symbol is the auspicious birds because she was itinerary in disposition.

Afin, awo ilode
Adia fun Ajibola,
Tiise yeye elekuru,
L'oja ejigbomekun.

The Babalawo were members of her religious order, and the ancient Yoruba were intent on vilifying her as a wicked woman (every ruler is wicked as long as they rule over people and people were not satisfied with them). The original sin is "Ika", exploration of the new found colony, Yorubaland. Wandering about the hills and rivers was the undoing of the matriarch. So she was under attacked by the obayeje's.

So the bird is a way of atonement for those who got into trouble speaking ill of the matriarch down through the ages till date.

Olu317:
Oh no no no no bro. I am ‘Olu' by real name and not just moniker. If you are damn versatile as you feel ,then don't distort. My research is strictly based on my finding. Olu is simply ‘Lord'. How on earth did Akinkanju became same as Olu ? Study Study and ask Elders. Olu was derived from the name of Lord God,Èl-èdumàrè The Èl is a prefix to the name Èdùmàrè. So please dont paint ILEIFE as if one person own it because it belonged to all bonafide YORUBAS. Have you not seen Èdumàre used severally without the ÈL? Ìlù-,Élù,-Èlu is same everywhere but tongue changes but trust me,the same way you don't know the meaning of Adimula is the same way you can't understand what is greater than you,neither am building anything bad for ancestors. THIS ONE IS GREATER THAN YOU! ,So let me be if you don't have scholarly written books to counter me.
Seek answers from Èlèdümàrè, the maker of mankind and spend your money on research.


Respect bro.
Cheers

Olivia you need to see my own work.
On this same topic, The true identity of the Yoruba rain 1, 2, 3. By Prince O. Jejelola.

On nairaland "true identity of the Yoruba race".

Torah:


Olivia you need to see my own work.
On this same topic, The true identity of the Yoruba rain 1, 2, 3. By Prince O. Jejelola.

On nairaland "true identity of the Yoruba race".

Prince, why did you name me Olivia ? A female name or what? Perhaps you will shed more light on it . Anyway, no problem but you and I share a name . However ,I have seen it and read your work. In fact, I downloaded it. Although you need do more work in the area of the linguistic angle in the transliteration of ancient Hebrew before yorubanisation of some Aramaic-Egyptian-Greek-Roman- language in understanding the way of life of the ancient Hebrews from that perspective because the ancient Hebrews lived in different places and through these relocation either through peaceful or forceful means,they picked up many words and fused them into their own language.

Thus,since no one actually know the original language of the ancient Hebrews but effort being made through discovery and interpretation of cuneiform,hieroglyphs, pictographs,which has helped the identity of the Hebrews,even to the extent of their original complexion.So,take your time in perfecting your work to a large extent.....

I wish you the best.

absoluteSuccess:


thanks buddy,

i think i once did a thread here many years ago under 2prexios handle as to Moses being Olokun, which is an angle that favours Yoruba support for the icon that is so called. I don't think a people will support their enemy anyway, albeit the Yoruba supported Olokun.

Musa or Moshe? I think the one with the closest meaning to someone drawn from the Nile is Ifa-Olokun, "drawn out of [the tributary] to the sea", then Yoruba seems to see the word Egypt from the same perspective as Stephen in the act of the apostles 5 as "dealing subtly"-"Jibiti" which rhymes with the sound and idea of the hebrew for Egypt.

On whose side is the Yoruba language in that perspective? Nonetheless, Reno may know what we don't yet know about this though.

The interesting part of it all is that , according to Hebrew dictionaries and lexicons this word הלל is translated as "praise" from Aramaic word. Meanwhile , the Ancient Hebrew language is a concrete oriented language meaning that the meaning of Hebrew words are rooted in something that can be sensed by the five senses. Thus, the abstract concepts such as this Aramaic word הלל which is translated as "praise", have no foundation in the concrete ancient Hebrew language and are a product of ancient Greek philosophy.

Question

1. If this word is written with the influence of Aramaic language script and its definition as this word הלל is translated as "praise”, which is from Aramaic word, then the question is; Where is the “Hebrew”in this word?

Hebrew was originally written with a pictographic script similar to Egyptian Hieroglyphs, but when Israel was taken into captivity in Babylon Aramaic script of the region and used it to write Hebrew which was adopted Aramaic language. The Modern Hebrew script used today in guiding the modern day hebrews are in fact Aramaic—Greek in origin, and not Ancient Hebrew.

How researchers discovered the ancient Hebrew's language being written in pictographs in SINAI?

Dr. Alan H. Gardiner, Another renowned Egyptologist, studied these inscriptions in detail. He discovered that these Sinaitic inscriptions consisted of a total of thirty-two symbols. Because of the limited number of symbols Dr. Gardiner determined that this was an alphabet.

Gardiner was then able to easily identify this Sinaitic alphabet as Semitic because of the pictographic nature of this alphabet. The name of each Hebrew letter is a Hebrew word with meaning.
The first letter of the Hebrew alphabet is called the aleph, a Hebrew word meaning "ox," The tenth letter is called the yud or yad meaning "hand" and the sixteenth letter is the ayin, a word meaning "eye."

Dr. Gardiner found that the letters in these ancient Sinaitic inscriptions were pictures of the very names of the Hebrew letters. The image of an ox head (left) was the letter aleph, the image of the hand (center) was the letter yad and the image of an eye (right) was the letter ayin.
This relationship between the pictograph and the names of the Semitic letters, Dr. Gardiner proposed, proved that this was the precursor to the previously known Phoenician/Old Hebrew alphabet.

Once it was determined that the new script was Semitic, Dr. Gardiner, in 1916, was able to translate a portion of one inscription. Thus, Dr. Gardiner was able to translate:

HEBREW'S :AYIN
Meaning: EYE

YORUBA'S : ÉYIN
Meaning: EYE

Funny enough most Yoruba people ignorantly collapsed ÉYIN AND OJU as the same as EYINOJU( EYEBALL)The actual meaning is:

OJU: FACE'S FRONT VIEW IN TOTAL

ÉYIN-OJU: FACE'S EYEBALL

ÉYIN : EYE


How the meaning of Jerusalem came to be interpreted?

It is quite intriguing reading the explanation of someone like Reno, who claim Jebu- Isale as the name of ancient Hebrew land which is known in English world as ‘Jerusalem',when in fact, JERUSALEM is not the exact word discovered in cuneiform from Armana cuneiform. It took about Four hundred years later after the era of Joshua before David conquered Jerusalem from the Jebusites, annexed it and made it his capital And by the time the Hebrews had a say in it, the name Jerusalem had been long established,which the

Where was Tell el- Armana?

The name, Tell el-Armarna, "the hill Amarna," is the modern name of ancient ruins about midway between Memphis and Luxor in Egypt. The ruins mark the site of the ancient city Khut Aten, which Amenophis IV built in order to escape the predominant influence of the old religion of Egypt represented by the priesthood at Thebes, and to establish a new cult, the worship of Aten, the sun's disk.

What is evidence of the real or closely name of JERUSALEM?

The original name from, Tell el-Amarna tablets from around 1400 B.C. used "Uru-Salem" or “Uru-Salimum",“Ur-salimmu" for Jerusalem, which is City of Peace but before the era the original name, that sounded something like Urusalimum or Ursalimmu, was being known as the, City of Ugaritic god,which was an older name for Jerusalem, before it was called Jebus. Therefore, if one decides to Yorubanise the Ugaritic meaning, it means in Yoruba language, ULU ORISA MI(ILU ORISA MI), but one need more concrete evidence to proof it. In fact, there are at least seven different CUNEIFORM strings for writing /uru/, one of which means, "city, town, village, district" and another of which means "high, deep"


AS SIMPLE AS ABC, the Western researchers were able to translate the word as :

HEBREW'S :URU,UR,IR
Meaning: CITY,TOWN,VILLAGE, DISTRICT

YORUBA'S: ILU,ULU
Meaning: CITY,TOWN ETC

AKKADIAN'S :ALU
Meaning: CITY,TOWN






*Note*

Obviously, non Yorubas and some yorubas like myself and others who dim it fit to know these thing need do serious research so that one wont become a laughing stock among the well sponsored interested researchers in western world. My point here is that Reno need do more research before coming up with Yorubanisation of words which in fact is off the comparable meaning of the interpreted meaning. Beside, Yoruba language mingle with Ethiopians- Egyptians-Bantu-Aramaics and her foundational language which was Hebrew's. So these must be put into consideration before one's theory can be generally considered.



Cheers.

Olu317
Permit me to be your instructor on Yoruba Ancestral link.

Director of Yoruba Research institute, Muliakh

Prince Oladipo Jejelola,

You have assurance in your heart come and have the clear proof from me given from YHWH

All my works are free on the net, follow them and study them.

You are blessed israel.

Olu317:
False accents? You make me laugh. Kindly ,get this off your medulla Oblongata because there is nothing like false accents. Infact, Yoruba language became documented through Ajayi Crowther between 1830s -1840s .The Oyo dialect was the pioneer dialect that was used to rearranged the spoken and written Yoruba language that became acceptable within purview of Yoruba world. And there is and was no spoken YORUBA DIALECTS,that is or was substandard,because Yoruba is a Continuum language
So,bro like I had mentioned earlier ,you have no clue about Yoruba history.In as much as I have made references to many scholars work that saw migrants status of Yoruba, then let it rest. There is a linguistic connection,so also ritual connection.The only thing I will advice you to do, is to fold your hands and read through my posts, if you are comfortable but you feel uncomfortable then bypass them all.

I am sure you have knowlwdge on the recent scientific genetic study that claimed Yoruba had a ghost 8% of unknown ancestors that is referred to SPECIES of HOMO HEIDELBERGENSIS. So Yoruba history is bigger than just your opinion or mine. There is a well established account of Yoruba dialects that canbe found on the web.

So,kindly, visit places and you will understand that accents exists among the different yoruba groups.


Cheers.

Torah:
Olu317
Permit me to be your instructor on Yoruba Ancestral link.

Director of Yoruba Research institute, Muliakh

Prince Oladipo Jejelola,

You have assurance in your heart come and have the clear proof from me given from YHWH

All my works are free on the net, follow them and study them.

You are blessed israel.

lmao
Gradually turning into a psycho cult

This is my Comment

Torah:
Olu317
Permit me to be your instructor on Yoruba Ancestral link.

Director of Yoruba Research institute, Muliakh

Prince Oladipo Jejelola,

You have assurance in your heart come and have the clear proof from me given from YHWH

All my works are free on the net, follow them and study them.

You are blessed israel.

Being my guide? Well,that's quite interesting to see someone with such offer. Anyway I humbly appreciate because there is no knowledge lost if you have something to share with others and I who sees the linguistic angle as well as the presumable migration of Yorubas from the land of UR,which Yorubas calls ‘Orun/Oru', from Middle East.

Furthermore, you have to proof the critics wrong with convincing evidence; as migration theories, linguistic connection,naming ceremony,semblance in cleansing through usage of animals,terracotta work,hieroglyphs,cuneiform work showing a people which has evidence connecting Yoruba as Hebrews etc

As far as I am concerned,your work need first ,fit into some of the meaning of the Hebrew words from the perspective of foreign interpreters which have same cognates with yorubas because you are solely showcasing Linguistic connection. So,you see,you have a lot of work to do as some of us too. Beside,your interpretation of Aqeb/Yakob/Yacob etc is wrong,considering the western Researchers interpreted meaning.

On a last note,thanks for the offer.

Cheers

@absoluteSuccess, greetings to you,please,what does ‘awonri' means from your research on its etymology?




Kindly Mail me via xylovoice@gmail.com during your convenient time. Thanks



Regard

Olu317:
@absoluteSuccess, greetings to you,please,what does ‘awonri' means from your research on its etymology?




Kindly Mail me via xylovoice@gmail.com during your convenient time. Thanks



Regard

Done.

One other thing, I think the conclusion on Ore as the rites in your place strike a cord of some sort that I would like us to peruse. When I reply you that Lysa may have some thing to do with Lusi, you spoke about your homeland tradition that has to do with Ore. I am still searching for the crypt in Ore, and I understands our ancestors' penchants for 'multiplicity of words' to keep us abreast of one possible meaning.

There is this line in my town's oriki: "Olisa-Ere lo kan omi osa, lo so oke ogbun d'ilu l'Owode" meaing "Olisa Ere connected to the lagoon, turning the upper part of the valley to the city of Owode." I like to see it this way: Lusi-Ore/Olisa-Ere, Ore/Ere, Ore. Olisa Ere, probably from Lysa (Lusitania) and its association with Ur.

And what's Ore in Yoruba historical register? Companions, friends, etc. The ancestors were unwilling to forget some historical words, and our forebears finds a place to spot them in different manifestations. Ifa gave us a clue to the events of the life and time of the explorers of Yorubaland thus,

The Memorial Precept

"Ore mase seke ore, temi tire nimule, binu tire tiri temi o ribe, iba ti ribe ni, aba tun ja laelae, adia fun okanlenu irumole, ti won lo ree b'oosa mule." Now from this passage comes the phrase "Ore-Imule". I know it means "awo" and that's the humble beginning of the term: the ore were awo with common quest of "imule", which literally means "securing the landmass". The very first Ore in Yorubaland were awo, the seers.

My point is, you claimed that your ancestor once camped at Ado, my idea about this is that they might be contemporary, even possibly the same person under different tribal memorial name. Its only one man whose history transverse Yorubaland that's known as Ado, he was an awo [seer] and an explorer and historian. My town took her name from the great soul, and so does Ado-Ekiti and other places bearing Ado across Yorubaland.

Now what am I saying? There is often the time that this Ore establishes a camp and leave people within the camp to grow the camp into city. My people call this, "owun adaludo" meaning "those that establish towns to dwell therein". Ado is one of the owun adaludo from Ifa perspective. If this people were so called, then they were like missionaries, they started with a vision, they had records. Their precepts is indeed a branch of knowledge.

Were Yoruba Ancestors "Civilizers Of The Aborigines"?

Owun Adaludo

---

: It is this phrase that makes me rooted to the conviction that Yoruba ancestors did not hijack the land from any aborigine, they came to an empty land and developed it to city-states. Even in the cradle of Yoruba history, the founding fathers were "intellectuals", they were "empire-builders" they were "explorers" and were "merchant navy". So, I know better to work with their precepts than buy some stupid "educated" history that failed to educate itself first in the ancestors' truest, pristine tradition that it continually fails to understand.

Back to "Ore-Imule" it is from this humble beginning that the Yoruba populace grew to city states. We continued mingling with one another until the Yoruba homeland became complex and came under the dominion of the city state(s) that's most prosperous and thus lord it over the rest at the appearance of the Oyo empire. We all came from common historical backgrounds to become neighbours far and near.

Oba Ado
I am from Ado, but interestingly, we do not have a family that claim to be from a man called Ado. We all have our Iga, and each has its name. None in particular is Iga Ado. Why is it like that? Well it could be that Ado was one of the icons whose names were encrypted in the town's sacred altars or better still, Ado was an empire builder on the move who established the city and continued his journey, leaving some of his families behind to build the community, hence the community took its name from their great founder, Ado.

At Ado odo, its a taboo to bring a horse to the town, the same applies with Ado ekiti. When I learnt of the tradition of the ado ekiti during Fayose's first tenure, I was a stunned*, how is it that the two distance places mutually kept the same tradition about their towns if they had not been instructed by the same person originally? If the name happens randomly, did their taboo happens randomly as well? Meanwhile, both never claim to have primordial link.

Akii f'omo re b'ore
Although there might be a better interpretation to this, but before human sacrificing, the word would have mean, you can't use a Yoruba man as sacrifice in Yorubaland, as in, you don't kill a neigbour's child for a sacrifice, you don't kill a friend's child for a sacrifice for friendship. By this token, awonrin were ore-imule, and they were all friends. in order words, Abore were supposed to be the keeper of the altar raised for the "brotherhood" of the migrants, just like the owun olowonrin.

Abore is more like the general secretary of an association of friends with business interest.


*the story was that people were angry that a horse was let lose to wonder about in Ado, which is considered a taboo in the town.

Olu317:


Being my guide? Well,that's quite interesting to see someone with such offer. Anyway I humbly appreciate because there is no knowledge lost if you have something to share with others and I who sees the linguistic angle as well as the presumable migration of Yorubas from the land of UR,which Yorubas calls ‘Orun/Oru', from Middle East.

Furthermore, you have to proof the critics wrong with convincing evidence; as migration theories, linguistic connection,naming ceremony,semblance in cleansing through usage of animals,terracotta work,hieroglyphs,cuneiform work showing a people which has evidence connecting Yoruba as Hebrews etc

As far as I am concerned,your work need first ,fit into some of the meaning of the Hebrew words from the perspective of foreign interpreters which have same cognates with yorubas because you are solely showcasing Linguistic connection. So,you see,you have a lot of work to do as some of us too. Beside,your interpretation of Aqeb/Yakob/Yacob etc is wrong,considering the western Researchers interpreted meaning.

On a last note,thanks for the offer.

Cheers

I love this tone, its full of wit.

absoluteSuccess:


I love this tone, its full of wit.

Thanks. I apalogise for the delayed response,which was due to unnecessary automated malfunctioning bot ban...

absoluteSuccess:


Done.

One other thing, I think the conclusion on Ore as the rites in your place strike a cord of some sort that I would like us to peruse. When I reply you that Lysa may have some thing to do with Lusi, you spoke about your homeland tradition that has to do with Ore. I am still searching for the crypt in Ore, and I understands our ancestors' penchants for 'multiplicity of words' to keep us abreast of one possible meaning.

There is this line in my town's oriki: "Olisa-Ere lo kan omi osa, lo so oke ogbun d'ilu l'Owode" meaing "Olisa Ere connected to the lagoon, turning the upper part of the valley to the city of Owode." I like to see it this way: Lusi-Ore/Olisa-Ere, Ore/Ere, Ore. Olisa Ere, probably from Lysa (Lusitania) and its association with Ur.

And what's Ore in Yoruba historical register? Companions, friends, etc. The ancestors were unwilling to forget some historical words, and our forebears finds a place to spot them in different manifestations. Ifa gave us a clue to the events of the life and time of the explorers of Yorubaland thus,

The Memorial Precept

"Ore mase seke ore, temi tire nimule, binu tire tiri temi o ribe, iba ti ribe ni, aba tun ja laelae, adia fun okanlenu irumole, ti won lo ree b'oosa mule." Now from this passage comes the phrase "Ore-Imule". I know it means "awo" and that's the humble beginning of the term: the ore were awo with common quest of "imule", which literally means "securing the landmass". The very first Ore in Yorubaland were awo, the seers.

My point is, you claimed that your ancestor once camped at Ado, my idea about this is that they might be contemporary, even possibly the same person under different tribal memorial name. Its only one man whose history transverse Yorubaland that's known as Ado, he was an awo [seer] and an explorer and historian. My town took her name from the great soul, and so does Ado-Ekiti and other places bearing Ado across Yorubaland.

Now what am I saying? There is often the time that this Ore establishes a camp and leave people within the camp to grow the camp into city. My people call this, "owun adaludo" meaning "those that establish towns to dwell therein". Ado is one of the owun adaludo from Ifa perspective. If this people were so called, then they were like missionaries, they started with a vision, they had records. Their precepts is indeed a branch of knowledge.

Were Yoruba Ancestors "Civilizers Of The Aborigines"?

Owun Adaludo

---

: It is this phrase that makes me rooted to the conviction that Yoruba ancestors did not hijack the land from any aborigine, they came to an empty land and developed it to city-states. Even in the cradle of Yoruba history, the founding fathers were "intellectuals", they were "empire-builders" they were "explorers" and were "merchant navy". So, I know better to work with their precepts than buy some stupid "educated" history that failed to educate itself first in the ancestors' truest, pristine tradition that it continually fails to understand.

Back to "Ore-Imule" it is from this humble beginning that the Yoruba populace grew to city states. We continued mingling with one another until the Yoruba homeland became complex and came under the dominion of the city state(s) that's most prosperous and thus lord it over the rest at the appearance of the Oyo empire. We all came from common historical backgrounds to become neighbours far and near.

Oba Ado
I am from Ado, but interestingly, we do not have a family that claim to be from a man called Ado. We all have our Iga, and each has its name. None in particular is Iga Ado. Why is it like that? Well it could be that Ado was one of the icons whose names were encrypted in the town's sacred altars or better still, Ado was an empire builder on the move who established the city and continued his journey, leaving some of his families behind to build the community, hence the community took its name from their great founder, Ado.

At Ado odo, its a taboo to bring a horse to the town, the same applies with Ado ekiti. When I learnt of the tradition of the ado ekiti during Fayose's first tenure, I was a stunned*, how is it that the two distance places mutually kept the same tradition about their towns if they had not been instructed by the same person originally? If the name happens randomly, did their taboo happens randomly as well? Meanwhile, both never claim to have primordial link.

Akii f'omo re b'ore
Although there might be a better interpretation to this, but before human sacrificing, the word would have mean, you can't use a Yoruba man as sacrifice in Yorubaland, as in, you don't kill a neigbour's child for a sacrifice, you don't kill a friend's child for a sacrifice for friendship. By this token, awonrin were ore-imule, and they were all friends. in order words, Abore were supposed to be the keeper of the altar raised for the "brotherhood" of the migrants, just like the owun olowonrin.

Abore is more like the general secretary of an association of friends with business interest.


*the story was that people were angry that a horse was let lose to wonder about in Ado, which is considered a taboo in the town.

Ado is said to be founded by Orunmila,who was the migrant to the new place. Although, I don't actually know which of the Ado he founded first. But certainly migration and hill are too significant shield for Yorubas because, the aged says,má jáà ma sà ní à un fí mo àkin kójú àm àkín kojú tio bá mó'já mó sá à bá Ogún lo. So evidently some thing must made Orunmila to found Ado.. My question; does your town acknowledge Orunmila's Yoruba's version of being the founder of Ado?

On the claim by both of not actually claiming linkage does not necessary because the tradition upheld shows both were founded by same ancestors. Unfortunately, this is where ignorance crept into the mindset of the lazy ones who sees what the whitemen are doing to reconstruct Yoruba language through the research they embarked upon. The story of Ado is likened to the history of Oke Ora, Igbo Ora and Ora (Edo)respectively. This is because Oke Ora was inhabited by Odua group etc while there is a claim that Lajorun, a descendant of Oranmiyan founded Igbo Ora and a descendant of Owomika(Eweka) called Oba Ozolua founded Ora in Edo.These replica are all over Yoruba land of our ancestors moving from one direction to the other. Unfortunately Ora Akoko does not have a king per se. Thus, founding fathers took their ancestors name or their name through every land they sojourned. So much historical research devoid of assumption will go a long way

@Obalufon,

Èsù and Eshua,Yeshua(Jesus- Greek—English—version)basically mean the same personality .Unfortunately, the method use in veneration are different. How?

Èsù:-saviour of mankind ( concept of ancient Aku-Nago-Yoruba people etc)

Eshua/Yeshua:- savior of mankind (salvation to humanity),which is concept of Christianity

Unfortunately, non chalant approach and careful knowledge finding to the meaning of Èsù( evil one) on the part of the blunder by the earliest Missionaries, who categorically claimed Èsù of Yoruba as evil and the problem of humanity created many havoc to true meaning of certain Yoruba names. In the same way professor Wole Soyinka blundered on the meaning of his surname in his book, "The Man Died" ,when he intrepreted his surname,Soyinka to be "surrounded by wizards".

This is far from being the case. Names like Soyinka, Sonekan, Sonuga etc do not derive from "Oso" wizard but rather they derive from Orisaoko, the Yoruba god of Agriculture. If an immortal Soyinka can blunder, how much some of our ancestors do through generation in making mistake in some words and their meaning. And today Christians alike,muslims and free thinker uses Èsù as ‘ evil one' .

Funny enough, the ancient Hebrew never believed in Evil from man or something but by creation of God. Isn't this evealing Yoruba's concept of the way they see the good and bad( ìbì and ìrè) in the world ? Striking balance.

Plainly ,the Ancient Hebrew did not know anything called evil as being from man or something because God created light and darkness,“I [God] form the light and create darkness, I make peace and I create evil, I am the LORD who does all of these " (Isaiah 45:7I).
.
In the Bible God is seen as a God of light as well as darkness "And the people stood at a distance and Moses approached the heavy darkness where God was. " (Exodus 20:21). The same way Eledumare reign in light and darkness.

Infact The ancient Hebrew concept have nothing like Evil in their doctrine. In the same manner Yoruba had nothing like Evil from a person or something but sees everything as from God,which is evident in the aged saying, ti'bi ti'rè lá dà ìlè Àayè(good and bad). So it bigh time time,people's mindset on Èsu be changed because Eledumare is the reason for good and bad.Although in everyway, God want us to have IWA as the ingredient to make it to ajulè Orún.

The point is ,Can good exist without the bad?
Quite impossible, how could you judge something to be good if you cannot compare it to something bad? The same is true for all other concepts.The concept of good and bad is but the ancient Hebrews believed that God allow everything to be.

So, for those of us who hear, believe half way and doubt should not be moved at al because the origin of Yoruba ancestors started from the Middle East,with evidence of their footprint in land of Sumer,which part of it witnessed a migration of people who called that area with its heat intensity, ‘Or', known in Yoruba land as ,‘Orú'-heat.

Thus,through their migration out of the land of Or(ur) to the land of Ai- A place where Abram was called out to become a living being i.e dead to sin and became a living soul( ‘Ivri's biblical account) This is the place known in Yoruba's IFA Corpus, as Yoruba's Orun-Aiyè- a place where Orunmila migrated out to become a living and chosen descendants of God).

Cc: absoluteSuccess, MetaPhysical

Cheers

Olu317:
@Obalufon,

Èsù and Eshua,Yeshua(Jesus- Greek—English—version)basically mean the same personality .Unfortunately, the method use in veneration are different. How?

Èsù:-saviour of mankind ( concept of ancient Aku-Nago-Yoruba people etc)

Eshua/Yeshua:- savior of mankind (salvation to humanity),which is concept of Christianity

Unfortunately, non chalant approach and careful knowledge finding to the meaning of Èsù( evil one) on the part of the blunder by the earliest Missionaries, who categorically claimed Èsù of Yoruba as evil and the problem of humanity created many havoc to true meaning of certain Yoruba names. In the same way professor Wole Soyinka blundered on the meaning of his surname in his book, "The Man Died" ,when he intrepreted his surname,Soyinka to be "surrounded by wizards".

This is far from being the case. Names like Soyinka, Sonekan, Sonuga etc do not derive from "Oso" wizard but rather they derive from Orisaoko, the Yoruba god of Agriculture. If an immortal Soyinka can blunder, how much some of our ancestors do through generation in making mistake in some words and their meaning. And today Christians alike,muslims and free thinker uses Èsù as ‘ evil one' .

Funny enough, the ancient Hebrew never believed in Evil from man or something but by creation of God. Isn't this evealing Yoruba's concept of the way they see the good and bad( ìbì and ìrè) in the world ? Striking balance.

Plainly ,the Ancient Hebrew did not know anything called evil as being from man or something because God created light and darkness,“I [God] form the light and create darkness, I make peace and I create evil, I am the LORD who does all of these " (Isaiah 45:7I).
.
In the Bible God is seen as a God of light as well as darkness "And the people stood at a distance and Moses approached the heavy darkness where God was. " (Exodus 20:21). The same way Eledumare reign in light and darkness.

Infact The ancient Hebrew concept have nothing like Evil in their doctrine. In the same manner Yoruba had nothing like Evil from a person or something but sees everything as from God,which is evident in the aged saying, ti'bi ti'rè lá dà ìlè Àayè(good and bad). So it bigh time time,people's mindset on Èsu be changed because Eledumare is the reason for good and bad.Although in everyway, God want us to have IWA as the ingredient to make it to ajulè Orún.

The point is ,Can good exist without the bad?
Quite impossible, how could you judge something to be good if you cannot compare it to something bad? The same is true for all other concepts.The concept of good and bad is but the ancient Hebrews believed that God allow everything to be.

So, for those of us who hear, believe half way and doubt should not be moved at al because the origin of Yoruba ancestors started from the Middle East,with evidence of their footprint in land of Sumer,which part of it witnessed a migration of people who called that area with its heat intensity, ‘Or', known in Yoruba land as ,‘Orú'-heat.

Thus,through their migration out of the land of Or(ur) to the land of Ai- A place where Abram was called out to become a living being i.e dead to sin and became a living soul( ‘Ivri's biblical account) This is the place known in Yoruba's IFA Corpus, as Yoruba's Orun-Aiyè- a place where Orunmila migrated out to become a living and chosen descendants of God).

Cc: absoluteSuccess, metaPhysical

Cheers

Hello brother! Long time no see...

I like this post and I will share indepth contribution on this input later, first let me use this short availability to respond to an earlier post from AS.

God bless you bro!

absoluteSuccess:


Thanks for your insights and constant interest in Yoruba history, may God continue to guide you sir. With due respect, I think you are oblivious of the meaning of the phrase "alagada ogun", let me share the meaning with you.

AlaGada ogun, means 'one wielding a battle dagger'. Dagger in ancient Yoruba is known as "agada", according to the dictionary of the Yoruba, edited by Bishop Ajayi Crowther in the 19th century. Evidently, the term has faded off usage if you are not familiar with it. Dagger used to be called agada, while knife is called obe, and sword, ida, blade, abe, while cutlass is ada in Yoruba respectively.

How do I know about agada? Well, a little troublesome boy was member of my peer group when I was growing up, his name is Ojo, he is an Ebira boy. There was an elderly man opposite our house found of using the panegyric oriki to tease him. So, when I came across agada in the dictionary, I could relate it to Ojo, my childhood peer. His parents were such a wonderful people, especially, iya-ojo (OyinOjo) to us as children.

You might have heard of the word "awon omo gunbe" before? You'll find gunbe flashed in "ikirun agunbe onile obi". Perhaps in the ancient time, as common with the journeying northerners or other wayfarers, going about with dagger is an ancient culture of self-defense practiced by the Yorubas of old as well. This also reminds one of the sicarii from the hebrew revolt against the Romans.

Ojo Iberu

Ojo was a Yoruba icon that wielded battle dagger in the foundation era. He became a hero/villain (aseburuku-serere) as one may put it. His memorial was tucked in the oriki-orile Awori, hence we are called "omo agbo dere". There is a story behind this, I will talk about it in the book i'll produce next year, God willing. Agbodere is the "agbo" that went away to the bush as "are". Ere (boa constrictor) is the totem of the Danhome and many other tribes in Nigeria. They are families flung over the plains.

The veracity of this story is such that, when you continue to track it, it will take you down to the foundation of Danhome, @Olu, I believe you did have some first hand knowledge of them, the word e-gun in Yoruba antiquity is political, hence it was meant to taunt the founding fathers who splinted from the ancient Yoruba stock to form another colony of their own. The expansionist Yoruba labelled them "infidel" or "e e gun". Gun is the word for stab, crush, smitten or comeliness.

From this is the word E'gun, as opposed to Ogun, meaning "comely" or "worthy". Alada is Egun's national language, a-la-da in Yoruba is a splinter or "matchet bearer". Then again, their totem is the boa constrictor, and they do have a sacred house for it called Dan-home. if I'm correct, alada gbe is also known as gbekon gbe, and their oriki is revealing, "wanganvi, pekonu, aloje vi, aloje mapeko" wanganvi means progeny of the warlord. "alada" is akin to "agunmenu", where "agunmen" is akin to "agunbe". The amazon weird matchets during the Yoruba civil war.

The name Ojo is one that the Yoruba brought from their wellspring, (oruko amutorunwa) 'ojo-kure, alagada ogun', meaning "Ojo of Kure, the brandisher of battle dagger". Hope you see that this definition finds expression in the oriki? However, the appellation to his name are pointers to the same direction of Yoruba roots: kure (Qurayza) and he is also called Ojo Iberu, which I claimed to be Yoruba for hebrew.

Alagada Ogun

However, my inquisition to your oriki is that, if "alagada ogun" line exists in your oriki, and also has LUUSI present in it, then Iberu is a true cognate with "iberus", and that's yet another possible place the ancients' scholars want us to see. This is because Ojo is said to be from iberu, which is akin to Iberus, which is Greek for LUSITANIA, (the land of LUSI), which is today Spain. This means that the Yoruba forebears were familiar with the Mediterranean coasts before their migration, thereby alluding to such remote places in oriki.

By this token, LUSI is a name from a very different epoch than you might want it to be, its like you want to attach something older to something younger, such as making "baba" (Lusi) an "omo" for the glory of the moment. That's okay, but maybe the word is "oruko amutorunwa", names that the Yoruba brought from their wellspring, used as mnemonic in place names. Please don't degrade the name as it might be our common heritage in your care. Some words look quite recent but could be as old as inception, if not older.

Attestation

Well then, "agbedegbede oyinbo" is an attestation to the understanding of the ancient scholars, who were aware that the place they were talking about is beyond the shores of Africa or of the realm of the black race, but of the Mediterraneans. Lusitania is said to be from Lusus, said to be identical with Lysa, which is also akin to Ilisa, a place name in Yoruba. Lisa is a chieftancy title in Yoruba (Lisa bara ogo), but let us restrict ourselves to place-names, as that's when history is invoked.

The rule is, you must not stretch the word beyond the inherent syllables, otherwise you crash into another maze of words. Lysa invokes Ilisa, which is akin to Ilu-Isa, Ilu-Osa or Ile-Sha: all the variants have something to do with the ocean, "Ijesha obokun remi". Ilisan is another one, Ilu-Isan Ocean-town, similar to "Phoenician". All shares connotative meaning, with linguistic bearing pointing to the sea.

Yoruba's Hebrew Mnemonic

Remi is "to cross the sea or river or water", which is what "hebrew" or "iberus" mean etymologically: to cross the river. By this token, Ijesha equally means i-je-sa, journeying on the lagoon, seafaring: ije-bu, journeying on deep sea: ijebu-jesha, journeying on deep sea and the lagoon. Semantically speaking, these two words were combined because they mean the same thing, just as you have it in ikoko-ibaba, i-ko-ko is the same as i-ba-ba, where oko is oba, that is, the husband and father. "Koro" is the word, but it changed to "koko".

finally, the Yoruba ancestors were seafarers, they see life experience from mariners perspective: "igboke-gbodo wa" meaning "our activities in life". But the literal meaning of that phrase is, "our journeying through the hills and the rivers". They use their predominant experience as reality of life when that phrase was coined.

Same word, different places

Hebrew as a word derived from the same source as iberus, which is Greek for the inhabitants of the iberia peninsula. Whats interesting about this is the fact that the word iberus equally came from iba (river) and the word is a true cognate with the term "Hebrew", meaning people "from the other side of the river". Both variants iberus/hebrew derived from the same source, Ur. Yoruba have affinity to Greek tongue than English, hence iberus is closer in transcription to iberu than hebrew.

Now, there were two countries, one got her old name by migrating from a source beyond river Euphrates, while the other got her name from similar attribute as the first, due to similar topography in her terrain, beyond river Eber. Iberus now settles as ebro, and the people were called basque, just as hebrew came to be so called because they look up to Eber (crossing river Euphrates) respectively. Iber is the root word from Ur that means 'river', which inform the similarity of the names.

In Yoruba, Abata is the word for swamp. Also, there were various places known as Iba, and a family known to trace their source to Eba, who also reference their origin as owonrin, meaning migrants. The Yoruba "migrant Eba" is a cognate with the hebrew "migrant Eber" from Ur/Orun. Both have migrant status to their Eber/Eba appellations. Likewise, river plays significant role in their names, as the oriki of the Eba family (through Isolo) says, "omo olomi-ni-busun, omo osun f'odo r'ori, omo oniporogun l'ode Orun" its all river-business.

Like the word macabre, which comes from Maccabees, Iberu, comes from Ojo-iberu as an appellation at the foundation era, the word has also been reassigned to mean "panic attack" (iberu-b'ojo, Iba eru, where eru is fear) in Yoruba, meanwhile, its history is not lost as there were elsewhere where the other variants of "iberu" survive in pristine lexis and structure. Ija'ya or Ifoya are the true words for fear. The quest was to downplay Ojo as a coward historically, and that affected the semantic value of the word attached to Ojo.

Ojo is from the Ibadan tribe of the Yoruba, so it said "ibadan nile Oluyo le, nibi ole gbe njare oniun" (Ibadan: Iba/Eba and Dan, a man of Eba from the tribe of Dan), another way of saying this is Iba Oluyo le. He was banished from Yorubaland at inception by Oluyo as a rascal, and was vindicated by those who says "njare oniun". There is something peculiar between Ibadan and Danhome. The mythical version of this piece is to be found in Olowu (oniun) and Olubadan altercation caused by Osun. I use the oriki approach instead.

Interrelationship of terminologies

Agada-ogun is the dagger designed for war. Agada is like back-spelling of "a dagger". I also think the word "itage" is a modification of the word "stage": this is because "itage" up till this day connects only to "ere ori itage", meaning "stage-play". Nothing else to my knowledge is associated to "itage" in Yoruba. To 'tage' is different, it means flirt with someone else, and because that suffix is available, we never suspected that itage is a loan word or a modification of stage.

Certain words in many cultures has common meaning and common origin, taken to places by people who separated from one another, while some are borrowed from one culture to the other through contact. It takes great insight to find such terms and gazette them in their rightful place. When such happens, it is a "proof of contact" that might be beyond the knowledge of the students of the recent.

@Olu, I think you said LUUSI had a sword that is traditional to your household? What about it?

That's Alada.

@Metaphysical, baba. This is your area of specialization, enjoy this.

@Olu/obalufon111, make peace.

AS,
Nice to see you again bro. I could be wrong but I think this thread is the longest we have sustained discussion of origin without creating a new and parallel thread to sweep contributors away, granted more than half the pages are important but unrelated directly to topic of origin.


On interpretation and word knowledge let me say this, I believe if we all think and interprete the knowledge in same way then there will be no dynamism and need to learn and understand further beyond limits. So I appreciate that each of us relate our knowledge via a different flavor or color. No knowledge is lost. The best approach is the one you have taken, which is to give expression to the inner voice and logic and reasoning so you can take readers to a new height. As always, you are fantastic, thank you!

In my own understanding Yoruba word knowledge is few but adaptations, mutations, positioning, attributing, and so on expanded the total library to a continuum that even today as we speak, new terms are evolving.


What I have done is first visualize the ancestors in their sorrounding nature and environment. So when they see a leaf and call it EWE, it is not isolated from their being. It is not an abstract. By calling leaf EWE they expressed an emotion that is significant with the experience of vision, touch, smell, sound and taste. All EWEs are green. So they associated all colors in green to EWE and gave many different attributes of EWE.

So for example when expressing a visual object in green EWE will be used as connotation or reference. Similarly when describing a touch that has same texture as EWE, it would serve as reference point. Same for smell, taste and sound.


The second thing I have done is accept that Yoruba letters have spatial dimensional value. They also possess esoteric spiritual value.
Dimensionally they serve as geo-space reference. Spiritually they serve as energy-benders.

For instance A is attribute for everything geo-spatially of a higher realm above earth and beyond vision, that's one extremity. G is geo-spatially those with manifest and rooted or planted into ground, this is another extremity. Every other letter derives from one of these two extremes and is shaped depending on whether it is placed between A and G, or beyond G.

Inbetween these two etremities are attributes of personality and emotions of continuity or settlement and expansion, expressed as a phenomenon of existential space or in metaphysical realm. They are found in B, D, E, F.

Beyond G are attributes of self-evolution or lessons learnt and self-redemption, whether in physical or metaphysical realm. Examples are letters K, L, M, O, and so on.


I wish time would permit to expand but we will talk some more.

God bless you sir!

Olu317:
@Obalufon,

Èsù and Eshua,Yeshua(Jesus- Greek—English—version)basically mean the same personality .Unfortunately, the method use in veneration are different. How?

Èsù:-saviour of mankind ( concept of ancient Aku-Nago-Yoruba people etc)

Eshua/Yeshua:- savior of mankind (salvation to humanity),which is concept of Christianity

Unfortunately, non chalant approach and careful knowledge finding to the meaning of Èsù( evil one) on the part of the blunder by the earliest Missionaries, who categorically claimed Èsù of Yoruba as evil and the problem of humanity created many havoc to true meaning of certain Yoruba names. In the same way professor Wole Soyinka blundered on the meaning of his surname in his book, "The Man Died" ,when he intrepreted his surname,Soyinka to be "surrounded by wizards".

This is far from being the case. Names like Soyinka, Sonekan, Sonuga etc do not derive from "Oso" wizard but rather they derive from Orisaoko, the Yoruba god of Agriculture. If an immortal Soyinka can blunder, how much some of our ancestors do through generation in making mistake in some words and their meaning. And today Christians alike,muslims and free thinker uses Èsù as ‘ evil one' .

Funny enough, the ancient Hebrew never believed in Evil from man or something but by creation of God. Isn't this evealing Yoruba's concept of the way they see the good and bad( ìbì and ìrè) in the world ? Striking balance.

Plainly ,the Ancient Hebrew did not know anything called evil as being from man or something because God created light and darkness,“I [God] form the light and create darkness, I make peace and I create evil, I am the LORD who does all of these " (Isaiah 45:7I).
.
In the Bible God is seen as a God of light as well as darkness "And the people stood at a distance and Moses approached the heavy darkness where God was. " (Exodus 20:21). The same way Eledumare reign in light and darkness.

Infact The ancient Hebrew concept have nothing like Evil in their doctrine. In the same manner Yoruba had nothing like Evil from a person or something but sees everything as from God,which is evident in the aged saying, ti'bi ti'rè lá dà ìlè Àayè(good and bad). So it bigh time time,people's mindset on Èsu be changed because Eledumare is the reason for good and bad.Although in everyway, God want us to have IWA as the ingredient to make it to ajulè Orún.

The point is ,Can good exist without the bad?
Quite impossible, how could you judge something to be good if you cannot compare it to something bad? The same is true for all other concepts.The concept of good and bad is but the ancient Hebrews believed that God allow everything to be.

So, for those of us who hear, believe half way and doubt should not be moved at al because the origin of Yoruba ancestors started from the Middle East,with evidence of their footprint in land of Sumer,which part of it witnessed a migration of people who called that area with its heat intensity, ‘Or', known in Yoruba land as ,‘Orú'-heat.

Thus,through their migration out of the land of Or(ur) to the land of Ai- A place where Abram was called out to become a living being i.e dead to sin and became a living soul( ‘Ivri's biblical account) This is the place known in Yoruba's IFA Corpus, as Yoruba's Orun-Aiyè- a place where Orunmila migrated out to become a living and chosen descendants of God).

Cc: absoluteSuccess, MetaPhysical

Cheers

I still find it difficult to accept this your explanation of Èṣù. If the Yorùbá has this in his oríkì "a báni wá ọ̀ràn bá ò rí dá" The one who get you troubles even when you don't know how to /the one who get you into trouble when there's seems to be no trouble. Then we can infer that Yorùbá concept of Èṣù is not of a saviour but and evil doer. I don't know where you got your concept of èṣù as a saviour from but I'm sure it is not right. Nothing depicts Èṣù as a saviour in his oríkì. Laaroye ọkùnrin ogún, belekun sunkún keru o bá elekun, this line shows that èṣù escalates matters not that he reduce it. Secondly, to claim that the Hebrew do not have a concept of evil is just too vague. Did you actually read the Bible and how it depict the Jewish nation? If yes you would have noticed that Satan was mentioned in the old testament and in the new so how come they do not have the concept of what was very obvious in their history? You in fact flawed your logic by writing this "can good exist without evil" you further stated just like Job in the old testament sated that can we receive good without evil? You claim because God permit evil then the idea that the devil is not the doer of evil. How much has the devil paid you to venerate him? Mr olu please review your comment above and present it the way it should be

rhektor:

I still find it difficult to accept this your explanation of Èṣù. If the Yorùbá has this in his oríkì "a báni wá ọ̀ràn bá ò rí dá" The one who get you troubles even when you don't know how to /the one who get you into trouble when there's seems to be no trouble. Then we can infer that Yorùbá concept of Èṣù is not of a saviour but and evil doer. I don't know where you got your concept of èṣù as a saviour from but I'm sure it is not right. Nothing depicts Èṣù as a saviour in his oríkì. Laaroye ọkùnrin ogún, belekun sunkún keru o bá elekun, this line shows that èṣù escalates matters not that he reduce it. Secondly, to claim that the Hebrew do not have a concept of evil is just too vague. Did you actually read the Bible and how it depict the Jewish nation? If yes you would have noticed that Satan was mentioned in the old testament and in the new so how come they do not have the concept of what was very obvious in their history? You in fact flawed your logic by writing this "can good exist without evil" you further stated just like Job in the old testament sated that can we receive good without evil? You claim because God permit evil then the idea that the devil is not the doer of evil. How much has the devil paid you to venerate him? Mr olu please review your comment above and present it the way it should be

The concept of paradox, in theory and substance, is native to Yoruba cosmology. Our philosophy also contain touch-points that take reference from duality in nature, whether in living organisms or non-living matters. If you notice in Yoruba art ESU is symbolised with number three. The 'three" is however distributed into different applications of utility. Example is the three markings of ESU on Yoruba crowns, another utility is "orita meta" (the three crossroads), just to mention a few.

The knowledge is
1) an unknown hidden creative force depicted by Eiye (bird)
2) a known but hidden self depicted by inner consciousness
3) a known and visible material depicted via sensory organs

Beyond this knowledge there is also a mystery and secret.

The self activates an impulse
The impulse results in an action that generates an opposite reaction
The reaction produces a result.

The result is the experiencing of ESU as a malevolent or benevolent force. The force of salvation. I am skirting around the topic and being careful not to say too much and invite wrong responses and misunderstanding from readers.

The ritual of trinity in Christianity is same as the ritual of three in Islam and is also the same understanding in Qabalah in Judaism and Sufism in Islam. They are all coincided with the three in ESU.

MetaPhysical:




The concept of paradox, in theory and substance, is native to Yoruba cosmology. Our philosophy also contain touch-points that take reference from duality in nature, whether in living organisms or non-living matters. If you notice in Yoruba art ESU is symbolised with number three. The 'three" is however distributed into different applications of utility. Example is the three markings of ESU on Yoruba crowns, another utility is "orita meta" (the three crossroads), just to mention a few.

The knowledge is
1) an unknown hidden creative force depicted by Eiye (bird)
2) a known but hidden self depicted by inner consciousness
3) a known and visible material depicted via sensory organs

Beyond this knowledge there is also a mystery and secret.

The self activates an impulse
The impulse results in an action that generates an opposite reaction
The reaction produces a result.

The result is the experiencing of ESU as a malevolent or benevolent force. The force of salvation. I am skirting around the topic and being careful not to say too much and invite wrong responses and misunderstanding from readers.

The ritual of trinity in Christianity is same as the ritual of three in Islam and is also the same understanding in Qabalah in Judaism and Sufism in Islam. They are all coincided with the three in ESU.

You've actually succeeded in creating more confusion than explanation here sir. Your write-up here did not in any way explain the saving process of Èṣù in Yoruba spiritual belief system it only try to draw a similarity between some Abrahamic religion which are even distinct in the aspect of one believing in trinity and the other two did not

rhektor:


You've actually succeeded in creating more confusion than explanation here sir. Your write-up here did not in any way explain the saving process of Èṣù in Yoruba spiritual belief system it only try to draw a similarity between some Abrahamic religion which are even distinct in the aspect of one believing in trinity and the other two did not

You are not going to get me to talk more than I am willing to do on this topic of ESU.


ESU is not a bad force. ESU is a cleansing, we all need ESU.


We love food and acknowledge it as a necessity to survival and growth, but how many people see shit equally as a necessity for balance, survival, wellness and even growth? We desire the smell and aroma of cooked food but detest that of shit. The two are paired opposite and interwoven, can't do one without other and expect to remain alive. Sorry to use this as example.


The human must be taken through the fire of life and burnt. The burning fire is a cleansing that transforms the mortal to an immortal. We die first so we can live for ever. The death is made possible through acts of sacrifice and self-restraints. But restraint against what? Ok, so sons and daughters of Adam are innately slaves of sensory and appetite. When engrossed in their innate nature the god within is clouded and remains locked in, never rising to the surface, and so the individual is never evolved beyond basic capacities of living. In contrast, an individual who practices restraints and sacrifice will soon master the basic instincts and suppress it sufficiently that he can at will call forth the god within to manifest. The principle of Omoluabi teaches this.



So as the individual masters self, the malevolent and benevolent forces are bent one way or the other to him/her. The malevolent cleanses, followed by the rewarding benevolent. If the individual fights against this cleansing force the reward that must follow is delayed, and until he learns and succumbs to the cleansing he will never be rewarded. Some people die in their struggle against cleansing. They do not appreciate the importance of the fire that burns them and to accept it as their fate, allow its term to run through so they can acquire knowledge and growth. Now, the custodian of this cleansing and redemption is who ESU is. We need both the burning fire and its cleansing as a stepping stone to discover the divine self.


The relationship between the God's authority, mankind and the divinity of ESU is best depicted in a crypted message hidden in the myth of Oduduwa and creation. I will be very very brief on this one and not say too much. I thank God Almighty for creating me amongst a people called Yoruba. I am truly thankful and give grace and gratitude to God. Yoruba philosophies and manuscripts of nature are perfect and permanent for mankind.



You remember that I wrote this in my last post?

The knowledge is
1) an unknown hidden creative force depicted by Eiye (bird)
2) a known but hidden self depicted by inner consciousness
3) a known and visible material depicted via sensory organs

Beyond this knowledge there is also a mystery and secret.

MYTH

Oduduwa descended the chain from heaven to the water below and brought with him...
1) a cockerel
2) a snail shell containing sand
3) a palm kernel

I shouldn't have to explain the connection between the two positions to you if you are truly Yoruba.

Also, below is what Wikipedia wrote on etymology of Oduduwa and you can see the two knowledge above repeated here as well from an independent understanding.

Etymology

Oduduwa is the power of the womb, that brings forth into existence
Oduduwa represents omnipotence, the ability to affect and reconstruct the physical reality at will.
Oduduwa - odu da uwa - odu to da iwa - the principle that created the physical reality



If you are still not clear on ESU, I am sorry, this is the last I can contribute publicly on it.