Lajamisan — Lajodoogun — Ogboru + .....brought forth Giesi. Then Ademilokoun came through Ojee Lokunbinrin (Female). See olodo, some people thought, because, Giesi was crafted as Descendants, it meant his direct father... Even at it, despite,the shrewd information, Luusi was still a pinned son of one Ooni... Who is your father's ancestors before Giesi?Post his jaaare. After all, I had mentioned that someone's father's brother is also one's father. .....So Giesi is the direct father of Agbedegbede? Does this one know the gap of years between Giesi, and Debooye,who happened to be a female (Lokunbinrin)and Agbedegbede?. Infact Giesi was a maternal grandson of Ogboru.
Iba o. Ogbon inu yin o ni doba. I was just surprised you called me out for responding to what was started by him. I guess it got personal for him too & had to descend into curses. It is all love here. Oodua a gbe wa.
There were two issues in my response. 1) is the threat, which i think went too far. I addressed that to you. You are correct that offensive post can get one hot under the collar and call for unconventional ways in response. 2) is the digression from Yoruba origin to individual pedigree discoveries. I addressed my plea to both of you to desist and refocus. Again, I am not targeting you or being biased. If I offended I apologize.
To All, I believe we have had great conversations and made new push forward on the quest of origin. Nonetheless, the focus has been overtaken by other discussions, pertinent and important on account of family historical record keeping...but which invariably is not adding value to the broad discuss on Yoruba beginning. If by end of this week progression on the target topic remains stagnant I will unfollow as a participant and downgrade myself to guest status on the thread.
Lajamisan — Lajodoogun — Ogboru + .....brought forth Giesi. Then Ademilokoun came through Ojee Lokunbinrin (Female). See olodo, some people thought, because, Giesi was crafted as Descendants, it meant his direct father... Even at it, despite,the shrewd information, Luusi was still a pinned son of one Ooni... Who is your father's ancestors before Giesi?Post his jaaare. After all, I had mentioned that someone's father's brother is also one's father. .....So Giesi is the direct father of Agbedegbede? Does this one know the gap of years between Giesi, and Debooye,who happened to be a female (Lokunbinrin)and Agbedegbede?. Infact Giesi was a maternal grandson of Ogboru.
^^^^ ^^^^ Great pictorial representation! Very informative.
LOoooool! So the father is now Lajodogun & not Lafogido again? I am liking this. Di e di e wa fold & fi owo ara e embarrass ara e completely, uncle oniro.
You do not even understand your own screen shots & I will not explain it to you.
Who fathered Lafogido? So, because I mentioned Lajodogun,it is a problem ? Okay... Lajamisan fathered Luusi.
Mind you I have been able to established Facts with documents which state :
1. That Luusi, is a male descendant that left ILE IFE during the reign of Ooni Lafogido. And the account made mention of it as his father. Being someone's father can either be an uncle or one's father, etc.
2. That the beaded crown of Luusi showed he was a prince that left ILE IFE.Thus, Luusi was not a common personage as a chief's son or other but of Ooni's lineage. Yoruba tradition classify ‘ancient' beaded crown as original grade one crown that only princes or Kings wears
3. That intermarriages did happen and do happen among descendants of royal blood in the olden days,even among Lajadoogun descendants.
4. That Lajodoogun had a prominent descendant called Adagba. And Luusi's descendant , Orimoalaade had a son called Adagba,who was the half brother of Ikanbi.
5.That t Luusi's Oriki is pronounced in Giesi/ Agbedegbede has nothing to do with feminism angle of but masculine lineage. This is because woman are /were not known to be dreaded as Igun(vulture)in Yoruba tradition but man. In fact, in the olden times, Apari(balded man) were referred to as Igun.
6. That Luusi's Oriki did not begin with Oragbaye Ojaja because, the oriki had existed along the name of Giesi, Debooye and through the female daughter of Debooye Lokun Binrin that Agbedegbede existed generation after.
7. The Oriki Ooni Ogunwusi mention the Importance of Oore festival. The same Odun Oore is the most important festival of all Lusi. This is done at each period when its season come.
8.That Orimolaade had died before Ale was born. They were not directly related even if there were linked through Emure etc . Everyone during the said 14th—19th century dreaded and wanted an attached link with Luusi group during those years because they were major mercenaries and always defending Yoruba course anywhere. Go verify a myth of Koku (a headless mercenary who rode on horse that fought under Luusi descendants. The myth also said that Ajamaiye also fight headlessly too. I am also a typical example because I defend Yoruba course at every given time (It is in the blood)
9. That Ayede, Ogedengbe,Derin, and a host of others didn't exist when the epiteth se Oko akoko se Oko Ekiti first became a poetic praise. And Ooni Ogunwusi using it in his oriki only show his strength and a connection to his ancestors mighty feat in those places. No matter what, the first to use it remain the owner. 14th/15th century isn't a child's play.
10. That Esinmirin is a vital stream to Odua-Oranmiyan descendants etc. After all, Moremi history justify this. Thus, the water of Esinmirin only signify a form of spiritual water that one should not forget one's home etc. This is also a testimony to show where Luusi came from. After all, Esinmirin stream is of ILE IFE.
11. That Oragbaye had died around 1880. Thereafter, ILE IFE was attacked in 1882,which made Luusi with his group come and support the other warriors in other to salvage ILEIFE from the wriggle of Modakeke that Ibadan aided. Funny enough, there is a saying among Luusi descendants that except ILE IFE is defeated before they(Luusi descendants) can be defeated.
12. That Odu'a descendants have always being migrating from place to place. Mind you, I was born in Lagos, lived in Lagos and with ancestry that had lived over 100 years in Lagos.... But orisun is always orisun....
^^^^ ^^^^ Great pictorial representation! Very informative.
Are you of the Giesi lineage?
My ancestry claims Oranmiyan-Lajamisan-Lajodoogun. And my Oriki pin it. But you see in the ancient times, many of these descendants intermarry among themselves after a period of time. So, they are interwoven. In fact, a man who told me he is of the same ancestry of Oranmiyan with me in ILE IFE . He told me, both his parents are Oranmiyan descendants.
There is a ruling dynasty in Oman today called "Yaruba". Their ancestral root is placed in the Kahtani patriarchy. They were a pre-Islamic people in origin. When Islam came to Arabia it was punishable for scribes to retain, record or exchange archived history, arts and cults. They were seen as unIslamic and forbidden. In similar manner that public dancing or music and merriment is viewed as anti-Sharia in North of Nigeria. Therefore the dance steps of the Hausa ancestors are lost, their music and folklore is wiped out, replaced by Islamic folklores. Anything in North that does not have Allah or Muhammad invoked in it is viewed as unbelief. All these shift happened in late 1700, early 1800 when Fulani entered Hausaland. Similarly the Arabs in time of Islam coming to places like Midian, Aramea, Saba, and so on... punished anyone found to glorify or praise the pre-Islamic ancestry and history. This contributed to why Arab writings and records are devoid of Yoruba mention. Even the land we call Arabia today is a rename from indigenous names in the pre-Islamic era.
Nonetheless, we find traces of Yoruba is still in Quran and in Islamic worship and an Arabian dynasty till today called Yaruba who traced roots to Midian....the same Mondiana that features prominently in Yoruba oral history of origin.
In addition to many word cognates between Yoruba and its beginning in AfroAsia, ther are cognates in arts, in dress mode and symbolism, in cults and social organization, as well in worship and cosmic principles.
See the following artworks. The first is a mineral rock carving from Pre-Islamic Arabia. Compare with the second and third one, Esie Soapstone carving in Yorubaland. The fourth is a recreation to depict an Assyrian King with crown on head, staff in right hand and sword in left hand.
How is this King different from the depiction of Oduduwa?
I have been able to read the Oman history with this claim of Yaruba. And it only point to the direction, of the possibility of migration of Yoruba people to be from middle east.Despite unsubstantiated road link but many other similarities are eminent.
Infact,when a man known as M. C Adeyemi posited this view, in the early1914, Yoruba migrated from Medina-Midian, people were anxious to disregard it because they claim, it was as a result of religious affinity with the Middle East. Olumide Lucas posited Egypt's origin even with shared words,some scholars later accused him of not being a linguist or Historian. Yet, evidence in Art support this,customs support it and today, Language similarities support it. Susan Blier in her book(ART IN ILE IFE, Birth place of Yorubas )claimed that Odu'a group usually allow their beards unshaved. These are shown in the pattern on the bronze Heads that were dug out or seen in the groove in ILE IFE . The book claims, that some do have sign around the check which is a form of holes to depict ,spot where hair grows.
As you have rightly stated, over 95% of preIslam account of these people who lived in ancient Arabia were buried with the past. In fact, I learned that anyone who did reference history during the era of the Prophet, such is seen as infidel and stigmatised. This alone had made Arabia history with many negative impact and whoever that didn't accept the Islamic religion were either made to leave or die by sword . And this same thing was applicable also during Crusaders era.
Funny enough, Olumide Lucas claim of Egypt origin of Yoruba isn't in anyway wrong because Yoruba indeed had a footprint in this land, at one time or the other with evidence of beads, looom, language before moving inward. Conton claim, Yoruba lived in between Ancient Hebrew and Egyptians ? ... The question is this : What name did Yoruba bore when they lived between Hebrew and Egyptians ? According to legend, Yoruba bore different names such as Jebu(Yeb,), Offa,(Jaffa)etc. But the name from ILE IFE, was O o ni( he that owns) and these kind of names existed in Egypt before and around 160BCE,when the new Onias fled to Egypt from Jerusalem in Judah to establish Onias kingdom.
Hence, the reason, Yoruba language is of both Hebrew-semitic and Egyptians origin with infiltrated other few other languages. After all, Hebrew/Egyptian Moshe - drawn from water, may also be Mu ni Osé—Mosé(contracted) to mean drawn from river Osé.
I have been able to read the Oman history with this claim of Yaruba. And it only point to the direction, of the possibility of migration of Yoruba people to be from middle east.Despite unsubstantiated road link but many other similarities are eminent.
Infact,when a man known as M. C Adeyemi posited this view, in the early1914, Yoruba migrated from Medina-Midian, people were anxious to disregard it because they claim, it was as a result of religious affinity with the Middle East. Olumide Lucas posited Egypt's origin even with shared words,some scholars later accused him of not being a linguist or Historian. Yet, evidence in Art support this,customs support it and today, Language similarities support it. Susan Blier in her book(ART IN ILE IFE, Birth place of Yorubas )claimed that Odu'a group usually allow their beards unshaved. These are shown in the pattern on the bronze Heads that were dug out or seen in the groove in ILE IFE . The book claims, that some do have sign around the check which is a form of holes to depict ,spot where hair grows.
As you have rightly stated, over 95% of preIslam account of these people who lived in ancient Arabia were buried with the past. In fact, I learned that anyone who did reference history during the era of the Prophet, such is seen as infidel and stigmatised. This alone had made Arabia history with many negative impact and whoever that didn't accept the Islamic religion were either made to leave or die by sword . And this same thing was applicable also during Crusaders era.
Funny enough, Olumide Lucas claim of Egypt origin of Yoruba isn't in anyway wrong because Yoruba indeed had a footprint in this land, at one time or the other with evidence of beads, looom, language before moving inward. Conton claim, Yoruba lived in between Ancient Hebrew and Egyptians ? ... The question is this : What name did Yoruba bore when they lived between Hebrew and Egyptians ? According to legend, Yoruba bore different names such as Jebu(Yeb,), Offa,(Jaffa)etc. But the name from ILE IFE, was O o ni( he that owns) and these kind of names existed in Egypt before and around 160BCE,when the new Onias fled to Egypt from Jerusalem in Judah to establish Onias kingdom.
Hence, the reason, Yoruba language is of both Hebrew-semitic and Egyptians origin with infiltrated other few other languages. After all, Hebrew/Egyptian Moshe - drawn from water, may also be Mu ni Osé—Mosé(contracted) to mean drawn from river Osé.
Crediting Arabs with trustworthiness in historical record keeping is underserving. They are not at all altruistic and their record keeping is not meant for human evolution but rather for religious propagation and dominance. When a conflict arises between an important event of history and their religious bigotry, they will erase and obliterate the historical record to safeguard their religious teachings.
Look at the following for instance. If they can disregard artifacts dated to time of the founder of their religion, imagine what they did in time of Muhammed himself to the history of the people and their religion in Mecca and before The Prophet founded Islam.
I refuse to believe they tore down the place where Muhammed was born or the mosques he built to prevent it turning into worship grounds. Mecca had always been a no-go area for non-Muslims, according to Saudi law. Likewise they enacted laws that forbade excavations or anthropological diggings and studies in and around Medina and Mecca. It does not appear they can hold tight much longer on these laws without yielding, and they are scared of the revelations that will come out of these excavations. So they are destroying them. How else can one explain a people reputed to be record keepers to now turn around destroying history for grounds to build hotels? The Taliban destroyed Petra statues and the remains of great civilizations to propagate extremist Islam. The leftover antiquities of Iraq has been raided and blown to pieces by Isis in name of Islam. These erasures are not new.
A new order in civilization is emerging and a new set of cross migrations and populations will be witnessed and even though they are removed from origin, their culture and nativity will remain in spirit.....as was the case with Yoruba departing AfroAsia, or across Atlantic in the Americas. We settle to our new abode, but the ancestors in us remain tied to their roots...wherever it was....bringing us to its awakening periodically and nudging for a return and conciliation to origin. It is a continuous quest!
But such a transformation has come at a cost. The Washington-based Gulf Institute estimates that 95 per cent of Mecca's millennium-old buildings have been demolished in the past two decades alone. Dozens of key historical sites dating back to the birth of Islam have already been lost and there is a scramble among archaeologists and academics to try and encourage the authorities to preserve what little remains.
Many senior Wahabis are vehemently against the preservation of historical Islamic sites that are linked to the prophet because they believe it encourages shirq – the sin of idol worshipping.
But Dr Irfan al-Alawi, executive director of the Islamic Heritage Research Foundation which obtained the new photographs from inside the Grand Mosque, says the removal of the Ottoman and Abbasid columns will leave future generations of Muslims ignorant of their significance.
“It matters because many of these columns signified certain areas of the mosque where the Prophet sat and prayed,” he said. “ The historical record is being deleted. A new Muslim would never have a clue because there’s nothing marking these locations now. There are ways you could expand Mecca and Medina while protecting the historical heritage of the mosque itself and the surrounding sites.”
However key sites are still at risk. The Independent has obtained a presentation used by the Saudis to illustrate how the expansion of Mecca’s main mosque will look. In one of the slides it is clear that the Bayt al-Mawlid, an area which is believed to be the house where Muhammad was born in, will have to be removed unless plans change.
The Independent asked the Saudi Embassy in London a number of questions about the expansion plans and why more was not being done to preserve key historical sites. They replied: “Thank you for calling, but no comment.”
0balufonlll: Kabiyesi Ooni Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi Ojaja Keji
Omo Ojaja fidi ote jale Omo Ayi kiti Ogun Omo etiri Ogun
This is Ayikiti’s Oriki. The Oriki reserved for those from the line of Ojaja house.
This is Agbedegbede Oriki. Used for the two houses of Agbedegbede.
Oba Adeyeye seerin oko bi idikun Oloja Omo Ogunwusi Adefisan Yeuke
This is Degbin Kumbusu’s oriki. Ayikiti Orayigba alias Ojaja had siblings. Some of the known ones whose lines are traceable use this oriki. Those from Ojaja like can also use it & any other house post-Kumbusu.
This is Ologbenla’s oriki. Reserved for those from the Ologbenla line.
This is Giesi’s oriki mixed with a few lines from Ife Oriki & Moore oriki.
This is a freestyle contemporary oriki.
—————-
There’s still the oriki of Laroka, Goonijo, Lagunja who are ancestors to Giesi. And there’s still oriki of Debooye, Ooni Gbegbaaje & Ooni Ajila Orun not included. I do not know why they were left out.
—————-
Now, this should help you, Olu, pick & choose your word similarity games & connection properly.
Was Derin Ologbenla known as warrior in Akoko before he became Ooni? No Sir....Try check the map,written account of those men that attacked some settlement such as Irun, and distance between okeigbo-Ondo town and Akoko. Infact, few known people that invaded some towns in Akoko during Ologbenla's time were :
1. Ayorinde ,an Ibadan warlord, was the major man that raided Irun in Okeagbe around 1856.
2. Ogedengbe Agbogungboro, was one man that raided Akoko briefly when he was still fighting for Ibadan. And he knew where he went through to Akoko Edo land
3. Imoru, was one man too that raided one or two settlements in Northern part of Akoko
4. Aduloju was one man too that raided AFA in Okeagbe around 1880-1881.
The above names I gave didn't didn't acknowledge Derin Ologbenla,which only testify to my point that the epithet was far older than the people you mentioned as using it.
Again, I don't twist but inform you with record as documented by historians, so I don't give out opinion without evidence. Mind you, ‘Omo Owa mi roye' as an epithet is older than Giesi because Lusi used it before Giesi was born or anyone after.
Furthermore I hope you can see the below screenshot very well to understand where full stop (.) and commas (,) sign ,so also as others and where Omo Luusi is mentioned. Thereafter you will also see Debooye descendant who is a Female in the Family Tree for you to know the female descendant of LokunBinrin, which you interpreted wrongly.Thus, the Oriki I underlined symbolise ancestry connection and not just poem. So, each line, names whether it is figurative or plain is a reference to someone in the past that did great exploit within family.
Henceforth ,I take no cognisance of this issue no more....
Crediting Arabs with trustworthiness in historical record keeping is underserving. They are not at all altruistic and their record keeping is not meant for human evolution but rather for religious propagation and dominance. When a conflict arises between an important event of history and their religious bigotry, they will erase and obliterate the historical record to safeguard their religious teachings.
Look at the following for instance. If they can disregard artifacts dated to time of the founder of their religion, imagine what they did in time of Muhammed himself to the history of the people and their religion in Mecca and before The Prophet founded Islam.
I refuse to believe they tore down the place where Muhammed was born or the mosques he built to prevent it turning into worship grounds. Mecca had always been a no-go area for non-Muslims, according to Saudi law. Likewise they enacted laws that forbade excavations or anthropological diggings and studies in and around Medina and Mecca. It does not appear they can hold tight much longer on these laws without yielding, and they are scared of the revelations that will come out of these excavations. So they are destroying them. How else can one explain a people reputed to be record keepers to now turn around destroying history for grounds to build hotels? The Taliban destroyed Petra statues and the remains of great civilizations to propagate extremist Islam. The leftover antiquities of Iraq has been raided and blown to pieces by Isis in name of Islam. These erasures are not new.
A new order in civilization is emerging and a new set of cross migrations and populations will be witnessed and even though they are removed from origin, their culture and nativity will remain in spirit.....as was the case with Yoruba departing AfroAsia, or across Atlantic in the Americas. We settle to our new abode, but the ancestors in us remain tied to their roots...wherever it was....bringing us to its awakening periodically and nudging for a return and conciliation to origin. It is a continuous quest!
Honestly, I don't know the reason for these erasure if it is not about hidden information. Anyway, time and other places can actually be archaeologically beneficial to human race with the knowledge of the past. Another striking point is that Medina/Midian was at one originally of Jewish enclave. But due to migration and conquest at different times, these colour race, which pinned Yoruba's knowledge to it reflects Afro Asia Furthermore, in one of the verses I see IFA priest reference an Odu as it concerns this peculiar Journey, ( ni adifa fun ‘Igba irumole ojukotun, abu fun igba irumole ojukosi, nijo ti won ntikole orun bowa kole aye'.) i.e from a place called Orun to Àyè. This Orun and Àyè are both found to have a similar cities that existed as ‘Ur'/‘Or'and ‘AI' in the Middle East. Below screenshot shows a place before the 5BCE of a Place known as, ‘AI' , in Israel. So also EnGedi is in the screenshot.
There was only one Luusi that left ILE IFE left with the oldest princely beaded crown and his bone is not in Usi Ekiti. So, I have never distorted history but says it as it were ,which have documented backing. E'en if there are some online oriki and slight errors in the information as regards some authors . Lastly the progenitor of Usi is a family members of Olusi descendant nd pulled out under Omo Owa Ikanbi at Ipole /Emure when migration occurred again towards another place ,which is also documented by historians. So you are the one with little knowledge of history because you failed to realise the intricacies that was involved in the past in ILE IFE.
Luusi oriki states him as; Omo Owa. He took that to Ekiti too... And the original meaning of Owa is different from the way it has turned to in today's Ekiti and environment. This is because omo Owa was a reference of ‘Omo Oba '
mr Olu317, absolute succes. I stumbled upon this short attachment online about the true Hebrew. this author showed how words with similar cognate can be stretched and collasped to produce a new word. The attachment is 93 pages long. it will surely excites you
Olu317: My ancestry claims Oranmiyan-Lajamisan-Lajodoogun. And my Oriki pin it. But you see in the ancient times, many of these descendants intermarry among themselves after a period of time. So, they are interwoven. In fact, a man who told me he is of the same ancestry of Oranmiyan with me in ILE IFE. He told me, both his parents are Oranmiyan descendants.
^^^^^ ^^^^^ @Olu317
Greetings to you... and good to see your insightful response!
Olu317, YOU have a GREAT illustrious royal ancestry/history from "The Source!"
By the way... I knew Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi as far back as 2002 when he was promoting the "Association of International Business or AIB" but I never knew he was a Prince of Ife. He used [Mister/Mr.] as his title as the Managing Director/CEO of Grand Imperio Group. I nearly fell off my chair in 2015 when I saw him becoming the 51st Ooni of Ife Enitan Adeyeye Ogunwusi, Ojaja 11 [2015-date].
He [Adeyeye Ogunwusi] was born on October 17, 1974 and just turned 44 on the 17th of October 2018, never made a big noise about his royal ancestry as a Prince.
"Personal life" He was born at exactly 13.00GMT on 17 October 1974 to the family of Oluropo and Wuraola Ogunwusi of the Giesi Royal House, Agbedegbede Compound in the city of Ile-Ife. His birth was predicted years before he was conceived. Hence, he was named Enitan by his mother while his grandfather named him Adeyeye, which means ‘the crown befits the throne.[5] The Oba is the fifth child in a family of seven.
He was involved in previous relationships. Notable among them is Adebukola Bombata, whom he married in 2008, Olori Wuraola Zaynab Otiti, his second wife (2016-2017), and Omolara Olatubosun, with whom he has his only daughter and with whom he is a co-parent. The daughter's name is Princess Adeola Aanuolouwapo Ogunwusi (born in May, 1994). He married Prophetess & Evangelist Morenike Naomi in 2018.[6]
"Yoruba and Benin Kingdom: Ile Ife The Final Resting Place of History" By Kunle I. Sowunmi
"It is often said that it is a taboo to bury a king in exile. Ile Ife from all indications and by having the heads of all the late kings of Benin and that of Oranmiyan himself buried at Ile Ife to this writer is the source of Edos and Yoruba and this fact must not be distorted with sentiments."
"12 Interesting Things You Never Knew About The Mysterious Opa Oranmiyan (Oranmiyan’s Staff) In Ile Ife Yoruba History" by proudlyoruba - January 5, 2017
The joke is on you fella, you are the one at your wits end, using false cognates to embellish your claims at every turn but asking others to expose theirs to scrutiny of semantics, because your boy tell them so. Why don't you do exactly the same thing with your false cognates?
Olu is very intelligent, fanning the ember of knowledge further to wherever knowledge can be fetched, but you are in a ditch with your Yoruba/Japanise false cognate because you can do nothing with it, it ends in nairaland.
Olu has hope:
I've once gave you an equation to make something out of the false cognates you often share, but at the end you turn it on me for the reason best known to you.
This is from a reliable source and a framework for linguistics and its practitioners. Need I say more? Enigbon to l'enikan o gbon, oniyen gaan ni baba ogo. Agba ofifo lo maa ndun muhoromuhoro.
LMAO look at this fraud. Why so angry when I do the exact same thing you do?
If Hebrew is ibẹru in Yoruba, according to you, why can't Raijin be Oraufe? If "Addereth" is "Adire" why can't "Ie" be "Ile"?
If you have a problem with my Japanese connection then you should also have a problem with your Hebrew connection because we both follow no standard, neither do we utilize any methodology, so your nonsense cannot be better. @olu, metaphysical, when will you three provide your methodology? How do you arrive at these so called cognates? Since mine are false
Until then it's a free for all word match up
If you have any sense at all, you would use this to think about how what you are doing is nothing but historical distortion and a total disregard for linguistics But you probably know already, desperation for nairaland fame sha ni
You even try ooo bro. This is because, you have exposed them to the knowledge of linguistic cognates
In cognate, there are
1. Doubles
2. Triplets
1. Doublets in English Language -
In English grammar and morphology , doublets are two distinct words derived from the same source but by different routes of transmission, such as poison and potion (both from the Latin potio, a drink). Also known as lexical doublets and etymological twins. When the two words are used together in a phrase they are called coupled synonyms or binomial expressions.
2. Three words of this kind are called triplets : e.g., place, plaza, and piazza (all from the Latin platea , a broad street).
Furthermore ,there are
False, Accidental, and Partial Cognates
(a). False cognates are two words in different languages that appear to be cognates but actually are not
Example :
olachi's Japanese :Tsuki x Yoruba : Osupa x English : Moon x
Japanese :Le Yoruba : Ìlè English : House
(b). Accidental cognates are not etymologically related but just happen to share form.
(c). Partial cognates are words that have the same meaning in some contexts but not others.
Submission:
Sir,forget them, these people's knowledge are retrogressive because if Hebrew's aleph is pronounced in youuba's À(Ah) etc yet they failed acknowledge it. And through Ogun stone, it is said to be of Phyiliac origin and Oranmiyan's hieroglyphs is undeciphered. I wonder what the problem with these people who can't but drag intellectuality to the mud
Cheers
@bold. This fraud knows this but still goes around this forum posting false cognates
Imagine the shameless fraud
When will you prove "addereth" is cognate of "adire"? And all the other nonsense claims
Olu317, YOU have a GREAT illustrious royal ancestry/history from "The Source!"
By the way... I knew Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi as far back as 2002 when he was promoting the "Association of International Business or AIB" but I never knew he was a Prince of Ife. He used [Mister/Mr.] as his title as the Managing Director/CEO of Grand Imperio Group. I nearly fell off my chair in 2015 when I saw him becoming the 51st Ooni of Ife Enitan Adeyeye Ogunwusi, Ojaja 11 [2015-date].
He [Adeyeye Ogunwusi] was born on October 17, 1974 and just turned 44 on the 17th of October 2018, never made a big noise about his royal ancestry as a Prince.
"Personal life" He was born at exactly 13.00GMT on 17 October 1974 to the family of Oluropo and Wuraola Ogunwusi of the Giesi Royal House, Agbedegbede Compound in the city of Ile-Ife. His birth was predicted years before he was conceived. Hence, he was named Enitan by his mother while his grandfather named him Adeyeye, which means ‘the crown befits the throne.[5] The Oba is the fifth child in a family of seven.
He was involved in previous relationships. Notable among them is Adebukola Bombata, whom he married in 2008, Olori Wuraola Zaynab Otiti, his second wife (2016-2017), and Omolara Olatubosun, with whom he has his only daughter and with whom he is a co-parent. The daughter's name is Princess Adeola Aanuolouwapo Ogunwusi (born in May, 1994). He married Prophetess & Evangelist Morenike Naomi in 2018.[6]
"Yoruba and Benin Kingdom: Ile Ife The Final Resting Place of History" By Kunle I. Sowunmi
"It is often said that it is a taboo to bury a king in exile. Ile Ife from all indications and by having the heads of all the late kings of Benin and that of Oranmiyan himself buried at Ile Ife to this writer is the source of Edos and Yoruba and this fact must not be distorted with sentiments."
"12 Interesting Things You Never Knew About The Mysterious Opa Oranmiyan (Oranmiyan’s Staff) In Ile Ife Yoruba History" by proudlyoruba - January 5, 2017
@bold. This fraud knows this but still goes around this forum posting false cognates
Imagine the shameless fraud
When will you prove "addereth" is cognate of "adire"? And all the other nonsense claims
Well,Ignorance is the greatest plague a man lives with and you're absolutely webbed in it. There are two things you ignorantly failed to acknowledged, which are:
1. Each word that I posted has root word in ancient Semitic language
2, That each word being reference by me,isn't among the present day spoken ancient Hebrew.
3. That cognate has what is known to a word which share same meaning.
4. That word that Yoruba language discovered by me are heavily of Afro Asia origin and not of West Africa's.
5. That you will rot in envy of me . After all,I post online with reference to authored books.
6. That your egocentrism and ignorant on African tradition continue to show how you lack the pedigree to make meaningful contribution on African history or traditions because this same African continent you have little or no knowledge on had been influenced through Christianity before 556AD before Islam came into Africa.
In fact, the present day Modern Hebrew was developed through Roman-Greek language which 60% of it is intelligible to Arabic language. Unfortunately for you, ancient Hebrew is totally different language. So therefore, continue to swim in ignorance because, you don't even know what you're doing at all but have made yourself to be known as a total collateral failure.
Olu317: Well,Ignorance is the greatest plague a man lives with and you're absolutely webbed in it. There are two things you ignorantly failed to acknowledged, which are:
1. Each word that I posted has root word in ancient Semitic language
2, That each word being reference by me,isn't among the present day spoken ancient Hebrew.
3. That cognate has what is known to a word which share same meaning.
4. That word that Yoruba language discovered by me are heavily of Afro Asia origin and not of West Africa's.
5. That you will rot in envy of me . After all,I post online with reference to authored books.
6. That your egocentrism and ignorant on African tradition continue to show how you lack the pedigree to make meaningful contribution on African history or traditions because this same African continent you have little or no knowledge on had been influenced through Christianity before 556AD before Islam came into Africa.
In fact, the present day Modern Hebrew was developed through Roman-Greek language which 60% of it is intelligible to Arabic language. Unfortunately for you, ancient Hebrew is totally different language. So therefore, continue to swim in ignorance because, you don't even know what you're doing at all but have made yourself to be known as a total collateral failure.
Simple question : when will you prove "addereth" is "adire"
This is in response to your interesting piece about your oriki & Saheed Osupa experience. I have been looking for the post to reply but I could not find it. Yet, I do not want to leave it be.
My bad, I lost the post while trying to edit it.
While I respect your view on the Olu issue. I would like to present my perspective & I am hoping you will see where I am coming from. 1. I have no business contesting internet prince-hood or royal relevance with anyone. Not even in person. At the end of the day, regardless of background, eniti ori ati Olodumare ba fa ni owo soke lon re ibi giga. So prince or no prince doesn’t matter.
None of us asked to be of such birth, but when it happens, we have a calling, to find exclusive facts and establish them with the family background as check and balance for our probable excesses. A thoroughbred must be grounded in the tradition of his ancestors; it’s for the days like this we were born bro.
2. It is a thing of joy or excitement to meet fellow Yoruba/Ife people & even those with ties to certain places here. In addition, leave is over & I have so much work to attend to. So I do not have that much time to go in circles with someone over their origins. Ko add to my finances & social status now. It is just that Olu’s antecedents have been a fradulent one. I have had several engagements with him were he shifted grounds on his several claims & I also caught him using several of the data I employed in my engagements with him to further his claims with other people. How do you debate something severely then turn around to adopt what you challenged in pursuing your course?
It can only means you have useful facts and you are defending your position with the facts at your disposal. Olu knows you won’t lie on such things too. But it is not “fact being fact” that you people are contending about, it is Olu’s place in the fact file that you are sharing. Fact is universal, anyone can use it, and maybe Olu borrow from your arsenal of facts that you once used to establish his own defense.
Nonetheless, the bone of contention gangan is LUUSI, I wont take Olu serious on some issue, but not on the area of tradition, and the truth is, LUUSI exists, and confirmed in OgunwUSI [Ogun-sprout-Usi] as a tenable figure in Yoruba historical phylum. He could be my ancestor, so I can't deny his existence once there are names and variant pieces of tradition built around the term: taaba fa gburu, gburu a fagbo.
3. I agree with you, Ogunwusi’s oriki shows Luusi. Olu claims the same Luusi as his culture hero. The question I ask is - since ‘o soko ekiti, soko akoko’ features in the orikis of Ogedengbe, Elekole & Ayede Ekiti king, do we use his premise and accept that Luusi is related to them all? He also claims ‘igun’ features in Ogunwusi’s oriki & Luusi’s oriki. That same ‘Igun’ features in the oriki of Moremi’s slave’s family. Is Luusi also tied to that family? ‘Omo Oke’ features in the orikis of Oke Ileri, Oke Itase, Oke Igeti, Iddo, Osogun compounds. Are these all also tied to his Luusi? The history of Emure & Ale in Ekiti/Ondo axis features the history of Olusi/Luusi. Why is Olu brushing it to the side?
No, my brother: we must take it one after the other. Olu has the LUUSI claim right from the onset. It’s an emblem of honour to him just as you have said. LUUSI was a great historical figure from whom he sprang. LUUSI is equivalent to [GIESI/OGBOORU/LAFOGIDO] to Olu, LUUSI is to him a prince of ILEIFE (as the branch that was not recon with in the scheme of things yet). I think its your frugal scrutiny that brought about the competition. LUUSI is aline on its own and O soko ekiti soko akoko is another line.
O s’oko ekiti s’oko akoko: that line is universal-set to the people who use it, it is the line all the people who spot that line in their oriki has in common, while LUUSI is what the Ogunwusi and Olu has in common, so its an intersection, as you have in Venn diagram. We needed to know who the “O” [soko ekiti…] signifies, it could be a forgotten ancestor or hero that the universal set has in common. Soko stand for a benevolent or oppressive historical figure depending on your angle.
Someone was responsible for that line of praise permeating into the description of the set, and that it also applies to ‘Attah of Igala’ means that soko, [sooko?] may not necessarily mean oppressor but the rallying point for the akoko and ekiti, to which a prince of any of the member of this set could have been in remote past.
I noticed Olu recourse to ‘dread’ as value for the ‘soko’, but that word is ambiguous and it is the same for sooko, the crown prince at Ife, so you don’t hold too lofty to one side alone until fact is established. Obalufoniii, you can find ways to break the word “sooko” to its simplest possible meaning. To me, one is the lofty version [Sooko: prince] and the other, [s'oko] the dread version, afterall, we do say "baale oko 'lu" So the oko here is that baale is a proto-Yoruba word meaning husband, oko, from the genital oko. one is pleasant than the other.
4. I’ll try to explain how oriki system is arranged here in Ife. I guess you already know or have the idea but you’ll permit my repetition here:
There’s general oriki & specific oriki to a group. Using NL for example (I do not want to use Ife & then drop more info for Olu to mop up) - if General Page is Giesi in this case, the oriki of Seun will feature it is Oriki. Then if politics section is a son of NL general page, few lines of the oriki of general page will feature in politics section’s oriki. If ethnic/racist section is a son of politics, the oriki of politics section will feature in its oriki. Now in Ife, if a house had a prominent son & he chooses to start his own house, the qualities & achievements of that man will be the oriki of the man’s house & this will not be shared by other siblings. For example: Ooni Degbin & Ooni Derin were brothers. Ooni Degbin’s line remains under Agbedegbede while Ologbenla branched out. Ooni Degbin is within Agbedegbede while his son Ojaja is a stand alone line - known & traceable. It is the same with the Sijuades/Olubuse - they stand out of the larger Ogbooru. What makes this interesting is that, those who stand out can share the oriki of the general house but the general house can not share theirs. Olu knows nothing about Ife other than things he reads from pages of the internet or else he would know that Luusi does not feature in the Oriki of Lafogido, Ogbooru, Osinkola & general Giesi oriki because that personage was not their contemporary. The name does not even feature in the general Giesi oriki apart from the Ojaja line. How is a name unknown across all sections but features in Ayikiti’s line alone, how does he explain that? Olu claims Ologbenla & Luusi/Ajamaye were peers but Luusi does not feature in the oriki of the ologbenlas. Only Ojaja’s line.
I understand the interference, there is always inflow and sharing of information within oriki orile [omo onife abure, omo adade owo remo], oriki iran[opomulero moja lekan] and oriki idile [erimoje omo saaja] and Isiri, [Oladigbolu, Oba Alaafin Oyo, Obanla tin f’obaje; Ibikunle, olododo kerijeri loju ogun] . Now the angle that favours Olu is oriki idile, which comes from ojaja, where the reigning ooni (may his days be long) hails from. His emblem (LUUSI) was not mentioned in the oriki iran because he [LUUSI] may have stand out, or branched out and lost out in the “oriki iran”. He [LUUSI] know that he exists somewhere and famous because of his origin, according to Olu, but the origin may be unaware of record of his exploit because he is an “orisa agbeni mafohun, ao mo teni tiise”.
Meanwhile, obalufon shared the oriki of the present ooni, and the name LUUSI popped up. It means that the “orisa agbeni mafoun” was a name from the ojaja household, who went to igbode by name LUUSI and that was all they know of him in ILEIFE oral gazette. The remnant of the information about “omo LUUSI” is expected to come from the remnant of the “omo LUUSI proper”, of which the ooni is not. The father (oriki idile) has invoked the name as anchor for the son (progeny) as a guide to forge a return, so to say, via the line of oriki that olu and ooni shared.
I also shared your perspective in that, the house of LUUSI needed to have an oriki that will be grafted into a particular house among the three ruling houses of Ife, but the fact that you said if one stand out, they often adopt a new oriki (isiri becomes oriki idile) means it may also apply to this branch too. But what I’m yet to know is, if Olu hails from a particular “LUUSI ruling house” at the present abode of LUUSI descendants? If so, what’s the name of the house and what is the name of the town if that may help? I have met a direct descendant of kunmi and we were colleagues in the defunct ‘Yoruba Heritage Mission’. He claimed Ijaiye Kunmi but he told me they were based in Abeokuta.
Again, I think Olu is also claiming that his LUUSI is older than the patriarchs of the Ife ruling houses, I don’t know if I’m correct about that.
5. There’s a compound I drove past last weekend. At the front, ‘Owalusi’ compound was boldly painted. I was on my way to Ile-Monle after ose orisa & when I got there, I asked the older men & they said the lineage of the conpound was unrelated to OramiyAn/Ooniship but rather a market personality. Olu does not know this but I can bet if I had posted a photo of the house, he would have jumped at it & furthered his claims to it without recourse to the actual place of the compound in the scheme of things.
Please dear brother, don’t hoard any information at your disposal. Any information that you share is all yours and when you expend one information, another one (vital reward) will spring to replace it in your collections of fact. Worry not about what anyone will do with your contributions. As to “Owalusi” being a market personality? Market personality is “oloja” in Yoruba: hmm, there is a story in it for us but let’s not go there, because they don’t understand their history just yet. Every ancient word in Yoruba (owa[obokun] or [orimo]lusi) is hyperlinked to a remote-Yoruba-history.
Pardon possible typos. Man’s tired.[/quote]
Please brothers, relax the arguments for now, time is the greatest revealer of all secrets.
Studies in Oriki, With Osupa’s As Specimen
I made a mistake with the post while trying to edit it and separate the odu from my family politics and lost the post by mistake. However, what I said there was that
I lost my grandmother in 2005, and my step mum visited our village at a countryside called Idolehin, which was the safe haven for Dahome settlers at Ado-Odo. She came to greet us (omo oloku) and when she saw me, she said “omo eleba ori, omo ori onoja osan”. I was confused; I said “is this our oriki as well?” She said “no, its oriki ileba”, and that we hail from ileba, but we are a woman’s lineage (matrilineal) at Isolo compound. I was confused, so she offered an explanation thus:
“There was a time the Ado wanted to elect an osolo, the prime minister for the town, so the families of isolo were contesting to be one, and the two surnames were ogundipe and aike (ake). The aike contestant claimed that the ogundipe where not patrilineal in isolo because they were female’s offspring at isolo.” The ogundipe were therefore descendants of Ileba, where they have their inheritance.
That’s my stepmom’s inference out of quote, and that’s where we did have our inheritance truly, our family homestead in the village of Idoleyin is called Ileba, and our landed property is to be found in Igbonla. Meanwhile, the ogundipe have always been from the family and known themselves as isolo family. However, they also have an inheritance with the ileba people, which is another quarter (iga ileba) at a little distance to isolo compound in Ado town. But our oko (village) is located at Igbonla, and our aba (challet) at Ileba at the countryside call Idolehin.
At Ado, the Ileba were the custodians of Owonrin, and they do enact the rite of “elekule” (which is akin to arugba osun), where the women of the owonrin (awon olosha) will go to fetch water from the river Ado. The word elekule might mean ‘one who is coward before death is coward indeed’ ole-iku-lole. That may connote the ancestors were not afraid of the sea while exploring it to the uttermost end.
My stepmom readily buy the rival’s story because she is at loggerheads with the ogundipes, who want her to share (the proceeds of) the properties in her care with the rest of us, (since dad had two wives), they were fighting for ‘us’, but we are careful not to show interest because we can’t come in-between the two contending parties. Since my stepmom avoids the ogundipes, (she slugged it out with them in court to become custodian of the properties in question) she may prefer the aike’s version of the isolo-ogundipe background.
So one day I was passing by, I heard Saheed Osupa’s song blazing from somewhere and it says ‘omo ola ‘leba, omo igbonla’ in mourning his dad. I recalled my step mum’s story, and I wonder about the song, I don’t know how to harness it but it struck my mind that isolo, ileba, igbola were of the same set from the findings I’ve encountered in Osupa’s song.
Yesterday, I did find out that the title of the song is fuji icon, and the track is “dedicated to my dad”, I listened to it again and it confirmed something interesting, Osupa was carefully choosing his word and saying, “araa’iso-yan, omola’niba, omo igbonla [baba ojo gbogbo], omo [sakiti] wonyin-wonyin”.
That’s what I found out after a very attentive listening. I know he may not have the original words because at his end as an ibadan indegene there is no standing landmark to control the usage of the word and how it should be pronounced as we do at Ado, Osupa seemingly sounds blurry with the terms he is not very cleared about but vocalize the clear ones to be found in mainstream Yoruba lexicon.
We have Ola, Ileba, Isolo, Igbonla, owonri as historical words partaining to Ileba and Isolo at Ado, which may not have been disturbed historically since inception, while Oshupa is a thoroughbred native of Ayeye, Ibadan. Nevertheless, what we do have in common is the attribute of a common ancestor to some point: Osupa is "ara Isoyan", while I am omo bibi inu iga Isolo: [isoyan "Speech of Choice" Isolo "Loud Speech"]. Both trace to a public speaker ancestor.
So who is this ancestor that we both have in common? It is in the name Ola, just as LUUSI is all that Olu and Ogunwusi have in common. without mincing word, my oriki DNA is with everyone else who has Ola as their first line of oriki in Yoruba, whose other line can reflect a little of mine too. That's just it, or the point would be improbable and the purpose of oriki will fail.
T’ewe ba pe l’ara ose, aad’ose. None of us the vanguard of oriki, it is an intellectual device that verifies or confirm a common origin for two distance relatives whio had lost contact for thousand years in and around Yorubaland since it was invented. The key is, vital elements of two set of oriki must rhyme and have common roots and some aspect of it must agree, once that is established, the ancestral root or the historical link become established as well.
Albeit, I noticed that my own claim to owun olowonrin, which I often used here as my authority or credential to explore my “Yoruba are migrants” claim is what has been transformed to “omo wonyin-wonyi” in Saheed Osupa’s tradition. Now it has become “iforodara”, but it was a phrase that has lost its original bearing and has evolved to something totally different. This is explainable, because it has detached from its root.
Like Olu, Osupa may have to struggle with some concept of the oriki and may not understand it in clear terms compare to the way I would, as one who has the privilege of being born into the particular tradition that separates what was lumped together in osupa version (Isolo-Leba), but if I never come across osupa version, I won’t be able to unravel the puzzle my stepmom set forth in her section of the story.
Simple question : when will you prove "addereth" is "adire"
Do I need to prove anything to you because Adéreth in ancient Hebrew is woven Fabric? Well I ignorance is a big one on you and until you humble yourself, certain things will always elude you. So learn from those whose lives are dedicated to make a foothold as being divinely directed. Meanwhile, the pictograph of ancient Hebrew found in Egypt specifically mentioned that the ancient Hebrew pattern of clothing were colourful i.e a dyed kind of clothing. Here are pictures to educate you and your like minds. Adéreth and its meaning from a researchers perspective.
@ absoluteabsoluteSuccess,I could not deliberately struggle with my ancestors oriki because, while growing up,my home was likened to every day Xmas or Eid el Malaud because merry making was the order of the day. This among other reason prompted my Inquisition to who my forbearer were.
Thus Luusi came to be and Orimoalaade history was said to had given birth to Odelu Ikan and his younger brother Adagba through his second wife. And Ikan was the one chosen by IFA at Ipole -Emure enclave to lead all as the chosen king after Orimolaade had passed on to the great beyond in Ipole.
Thereafter, Odelu Ikanbi and Adagba became the names of the family that rules. And these two were the names of the two ruling houses that existed as Oke Odelu Ikan and Ode Adagba before emigration . As a matter of fact,the history of Oranmiyan descendants can't be complete without these names. In fact, Oriki of Ogunwusi mentioned it and history of Lajodoogun attested to it.
Mo ba Giesi rejana Mo ba Debooye a repole Omo igun gbebo – mo re igbode Omo igun la gba Omo igun la je Omo igun kogokogo lorule Igun ile rin-in gbebo.......
In actual fact, Igun as a animal in this Oriki is referencing IPOLE as the Igbo Ode Luusi - IGUN and not just the ‘Iyas '. In ancient IFE, all form of sacrifices took hold and Luusi,his ancestors and descendants were tagged, untouchable group who cannot be killed for any form human sacrifice. Won ki fi Omo Oore bo Oore was an adage passed down to me by father because Oore is the major Ancestors worship of Luusi,which is was known as ‘Oore Oluusi' ,from Ipole -Emure axis through every settlement of his descendants, in which his regalia must be worn on such day of the celebration of the festival.
Funny,enough, Oore worship is the greatest of all Luusi's ancestral worship. One contrary interesting aspect of this saying is that I have come across a descendants of Obalufon Alaayemore of Efon Alaaye ,Ekiti state that his oriki attacked, ‘Igun' as a sacrificial animal.
absoluteSuccess, I am a descendant of Odelu Ikan Lineage. All names of children born are documented to know the legitimacy of such person. In fact,the peculiarity of my own case is that I am the Fourth generation to Ajamaye.So,there is no controversy over it. Ajamaye history is written in Gold because of his war prosecution in Eastern Yoruba land against the Nupe,Igalla, Edos. Among whom, he captured some as slaves . Ajamaye had vast land to his credit in Oke Imesi,where Fabunmi hails from,.......This story is what I know so much.
Part of Luusi Cognomen says;
Omo owa mi joye mi Omo Orun ........... Omo à ri Ogun Laade/Daade Omo à ri Ogun mà sà Omo à ri oté ma béèrù A se Akoko yigboyigbo O Se Oko Ekiti Se Oko Akoko,........ Omo Afi Akuko funfun bo Oore Utegbe yè n bo Oore É kì sè'bo Igun Igun Ile......... Omo Oke rilè Omo Lajaodo Ogun.......... Kare Oba mi.À ye e oo
During the invasion by Gambari,Nupe,Igalla,Edos around 18th century of some Yoruba enclave, the Cognomen became broader after defeating these people ,even with captured slaves as; O se Oko Ekiti Se Oko Akoko,Oko Tapa,Oko Gambari......
So, I know my views is separate from FACT ,which is the reason I don't swim in self opinion at the detriment of truth and fact on history.
None of us asked to be of such birth, but when it happens, we have a calling, to find exclusive facts and establish them with the family background as check and balance for our probable excesses. A thoroughbred must be grounded in the tradition of his ancestors; it’s for the days like this we were born bro.
It can only means you have useful facts and you are defending your position with the facts at your disposal. Olu knows you won’t lie on such things too. But it is not “fact being fact” that you people are contending about, it is Olu’s place in the fact file that you are sharing. Fact is universal, anyone can use it, and maybe Olu borrow from your arsenal of facts that you once used to establish his own defense.
Nonetheless, the bone of contention gangan is LUUSI, I wont take Olu serious on some issue, but not on the area of tradition, and the truth is, LUUSI exists, and confirmed in OgunwUSI [Ogun-sprout-Usi] as a tenable figure in Yoruba historical phylum. He could be my ancestor, so I can't deny his existence once there are names and variant pieces of tradition built around the term: taaba fa gburu, gburu a fagbo.
No, my brother: we must take it one after the other. Olu has the LUUSI claim right from the onset. It’s an emblem of honour to him just as you have said. LUUSI was a great historical figure from whom he sprang. LUUSI is equivalent to [GIESI/OGBOORU/LAFOGIDO] to Olu, LUUSI is to him a prince of ILEIFE (as the branch that was not recon with in the scheme of things yet). I think its your frugal scrutiny that brought about the competition. LUUSI is aline on its own and O soko ekiti soko akoko is another line.
O s’oko ekiti s’oko akoko: that line is universal-set to the people who use it, it is the line all the people who spot that line in their oriki has in common, while LUUSI is what the Ogunwusi and Olu has in common, so its an intersection, as you have in Venn diagram. We needed to know who the “O” [soko ekiti…] signifies, it could be a forgotten ancestor or hero that the universal set has in common. Soko stand for a benevolent or oppressive historical figure depending on your angle.
Someone was responsible for that line of praise permeating into the description of the set, and that it also applies to ‘Attah of Igala’ means that soko, [sooko?] may not necessarily mean oppressor but the rallying point for the akoko and ekiti, to which a prince of any of the member of this set could have been in remote past.
I noticed Olu recourse to ‘dread’ as value for the ‘soko’, but that word is ambiguous and it is the same for sooko, the crown prince at Ife, so you don’t hold too lofty to one side alone until fact is established. Obalufoniii, you can find ways to break the word “sooko” to its simplest possible meaning. To me, one is the lofty version [Sooko: prince] and the other, [s'oko] the dread version, afterall, we do say "baale oko 'lu" So the oko here is that baale is a proto-Yoruba word meaning husband, oko, from the genital oko. one is pleasant than the other.
I understand the interference, there is always inflow and sharing of information within oriki orile [omo onife abure, omo adade owo remo], oriki iran[opomulero moja lekan] and oriki idile [erimoje omo saaja] and Isiri, [Oladigbolu, Oba Alaafin Oyo, Obanla tin f’obaje; Ibikunle, olododo kerijeri loju ogun] . Now the angle that favours Olu is oriki idile, which comes from ojaja, where the reigning ooni (may his days be long) hails from. His emblem (LUUSI) was not mentioned in the oriki iran because he [LUUSI] may have stand out, or branched out and lost out in the “oriki iran”. He [LUUSI] know that he exists somewhere and famous because of his origin, according to Olu, but the origin may be unaware of record of his exploit because he is an “orisa agbeni mafohun, ao mo teni tiise”.
Meanwhile, obalufon shared the oriki of the present ooni, and the name LUUSI popped up. It means that the “orisa agbeni mafoun” was a name from the ojaja household, who went to igbode by name LUUSI and that was all they know of him in ILEIFE oral gazette. The remnant of the information about “omo LUUSI” is expected to come from the remnant of the “omo LUUSI proper”, of which the ooni is not. The father (oriki idile) has invoked the name as anchor for the son (progeny) as a guide to forge a return, so to say, via the line of oriki that olu and ooni shared.
I also shared your perspective in that, the house of LUUSI needed to have an oriki that will be grafted into a particular house among the three ruling houses of Ife, but the fact that you said if one stand out, they often adopt a new oriki (isiri becomes oriki idile) means it may also apply to this branch too. But what I’m yet to know is, if Olu hails from a particular “LUUSI ruling house” at the present abode of LUUSI descendants? If so, what’s the name of the house and what is the name of the town if that may help? I have met a direct descendant of kunmi and we were colleagues in the defunct ‘Yoruba Heritage Mission’. He claimed Ijaiye Kunmi but he told me they were based in Abeokuta.
Again, I think Olu is also claiming that his LUUSI is older than the patriarchs of the Ife ruling houses, I don’t know if I’m correct about that.
Please dear brother, don’t hoard any information at your disposal. Any information that you share is all yours and when you expend one information, another one (vital reward) will spring to replace it in your collections of fact. Worry not about what anyone will do with your contributions. As to “Owalusi” being a market personality? Market personality is “oloja” in Yoruba: hmm, there is a story in it for us but let’s not go there, because they don’t understand their history just yet. Every ancient word in Yoruba (owa[obokun] or [orimo]lusi) is hyperlinked to a remote-Yoruba-history.
Pardon possible typos. Man’s tired.
Please brothers, relax the arguments for now, time is the greatest revealer of all secrets.
Studies in Oriki, With Osupa’s As Specimen
I made a mistake with the post while trying to edit it and separate the odu from my family politics and lost the post by mistake. However, what I said there was that
I lost my grandmother in 2005, and my step mum visited our village at a countryside called Idolehin, which was the safe haven for Dahome settlers at Ado-Odo. She came to greet us (omo oloku) and when she saw me, she said “omo eleba ori, omo ori onoja osan”. I was confused; I said “is this our oriki as well?” She said “no, its oriki ileba”, and that we hail from ileba, but we are a woman’s lineage (matrilineal) at Isolo compound. I was confused, so she offered an explanation thus:
“There was a time the Ado wanted to elect an osolo, the prime minister for the town, so the families of isolo were contesting to be one, and the two surnames were ogundipe and aike (ake). The aike contestant claimed that the ogundipe where not patrilineal in isolo because they were female’s offspring at isolo.” The ogundipe were therefore descendants of Ileba, where they have their inheritance.
That’s my stepmom’s inference out of quote, and that’s where we did have our inheritance truly, our family homestead in the village of Idoleyin is called Ileba, and our landed property is to be found in Igbonla. Meanwhile, the ogundipe have always been from the family and known themselves as isolo family. However, they also have an inheritance with the ileba people, which is another quarter (iga ileba) at a little distance to isolo compound in Ado town. But our oko (village) is located at Igbonla, and our aba (challet) at Ileba at the countryside call Idolehin.
At Ado, the Ileba were the custodians of Owonrin, and they do enact the rite of “elekule” (which is akin to arugba osun), where the women of the owonrin (awon olosha) will go to fetch water from the river Ado. The word elekule might mean ‘one who is coward before death is coward indeed’ ole-iku-lole. That may connote the ancestors were not afraid of the sea while exploring it to the uttermost end.
My stepmom readily buy the rival’s story because she is at loggerheads with the ogundipes, who want her to share (the proceeds of) the properties in her care with the rest of us, (since dad had two wives), they were fighting for ‘us’, but we are careful not to show interest because we can’t come in-between the two contending parties. Since my stepmom avoids the ogundipes, (she slugged it out with them in court to become custodian of the properties in question) she may prefer the aike’s version of the isolo-ogundipe background.
So one day I was passing by, I heard Saheed Osupa’s song blazing from somewhere and it says ‘omo ola ‘leba, omo igbonla’ in mourning his dad. I recalled my step mum’s story, and I wonder about the song, I don’t know how to harness it but it struck my mind that isolo, ileba, igbola were of the same set from the findings I’ve encountered in Osupa’s song.
Yesterday, I did find out that the title of the song is fuji icon, and the track is “dedicated to my dad”, I listened to it again and it confirmed something interesting, Osupa was carefully choosing his word and saying, “araa’iso-yan, omola’niba, omo igbonla [baba ojo gbogbo], omo [sakiti] wonyin-wonyin”.
That’s what I found out after a very attentive listening. I know he may not have the original words because at his end as an ibadan indegene there is no standing landmark to control the usage of the word and how it should be pronounced as we do at Ado, Osupa seemingly sounds blurry with the terms he is not very cleared about but vocalize the clear ones to be found in mainstream Yoruba lexicon.
We have Ola, Ileba, Isolo, Igbonla, owonri as historical words partaining to Ileba and Isolo at Ado, which may not have been disturbed historically since inception, while Oshupa is a thoroughbred native of Ayeye, Ibadan. Nevertheless, what we do have in common is the attribute of a common ancestor to some point: Osupa is "ara Isoyan", while I am omo bibi inu iga Isolo: [isoyan "Speech of Choice" Isolo "Loud Speech"]. Both trace to a public speaker ancestor.
So who is this ancestor that we both have in common? It is in the name Ola, just as LUUSI is all that Olu and Ogunwusi have in common. without mincing word, my oriki DNA is with everyone else who has Ola as their first line of oriki in Yoruba, whose other line can reflect a little of mine too. That's just it, or the point would be improbable and the purpose of oriki will fail.
T’ewe ba pe l’ara ose, aad’ose. None of us the vanguard of oriki, it is an intellectual device that verifies or confirm a common origin for two distance relatives whio had lost contact for thousand years in and around Yorubaland since it was invented. The key is, vital elements of two set of oriki must rhyme and have common roots and some aspect of it must agree, once that is established, the ancestral root or the historical link become established as well.
Albeit, I noticed that my own claim to owun olowonrin, which I often used here as my authority or credential to explore my “Yoruba are migrants” claim is what has been transformed to “omo wonyin-wonyi” in Saheed Osupa’s tradition. Now it has become “iforodara”, but it was a phrase that has lost its original bearing and has evolved to something totally different. This is explainable, because it has detached from its root.
Like Olu, Osupa may have to struggle with some concept of the oriki and may not understand it in clear terms compare to the way I would, as one who has the privilege of being born into the particular tradition that separates what was lumped together in osupa version (Isolo-Leba), but if I never come across osupa version, I won’t be able to unravel the puzzle my stepmom set forth in her section of the story.
sorry that this response is belated.
Quite elaborate but lemme quickly say these
1. I don't struggle with my ancestry at because, story telling of one's ancestry was always a reference point during my child hood through my father and far older Cousins.
2. Internet source wasn't my pioneer knowledge of Lineage because we have a thick history that who and who must have record.
3. My surname has Ogun in it as a suffix and I am from Oke Odelu Ikanbi lineage.
4. Luusi came out of ILE IFE as a warrior Prince son. And he is older than the tagged names as it is but a descendant of Lajodogun. This was the basis of his war prosecution
5. When history becomes dented via personal opinion, then one result to written and archived information for self defense. So, I am far ahead with non self opinion but written and documented fact.
6. From, Ajamaye — Olu317 is four generation. So ,it is never online information but purely ancestry.
7. My distant cousins who are in their late 50s and 60s in the 80s life talked in awe of Ajamaiye's great exploit during 18th century,when I was very young. So,I didn't learn this information through online but interactive oral account with some of them who are vast in this history . In fact, captured slaves of different people from Edo town,Igala became workers in my ancestors farms . This was the reason I have knowledge of the discrimination against the set of people Yoruba ,don't acknowledged as civilized people but Barbarians or unmannered beings
8. The little information obalufonIII claimed to shared didn't have Odelu Ikan bi ,Adagba who were the prominent ancestors of mine through Luusi.
9. That I have never shifted ground on whatsoever way but always ignore when an issue isn't worth its onion. But he blundered on this because he used negative words on my ancestry me and I had to throw caution to the wind to defend my father's history.
10. I insist, se Oko Ekiti Se Oko Akoko was basically on Prowess basis from my ancestry i.e Luusi . In fact, Luusi's sword is not to be pointed at any one,else such person dies after recitation of some ‘Ohun'.
Questions you need ponder over are these:
1. Where in ILE IFE did any ancestors of Ooni fought against in Ekiti or Akoko to pick such epithet as Se Oko Ekiti Se Oko Akoko if not in Ekiti and Akoko? Nooo
2. Did Derin Ologbenla went through Hilly places in Akoko to wage war? Nooo
3. Did any war took place in Ilara Mokin, the abode where meeting was held to prosecute war against Ibadan? Noo
4. Do you know the strongest Egungun ( Èègùn) in Ibadan was captured by Ayorinde in Irun Akoko? Yes
5. Do you also know ILE IFE didn't participated in the war before she was attacked around 1881/1882? Yes,then Ajamaiye surfaced in ILE IFE to defend her with others.
6. Do you know not all Yoruba in the Eastern flanks fought against Ibadan because of fear of their communities being razed down by Ibadan if she eventually won ? Yes
Conclusion This is quite funny because most information are orally transmitted and documented. So, I see no reason someone who claimed being historian would cower to think I hung unto internet as the foundational source of my ancestors. I really need to say this again that, my maternal lineage is from Ekiti and from a kingly home too. s history.
10. I insist, se Oko Ekiti Se Oko Akoko was basically on Prowess basis through war persecution of Luusi and some of his descendants after him, such as Orimolaade, Ikanbi,Adagba,Ogbo etc .
None of us asked to be of such birth, but when it happens, we have a calling, to find exclusive facts and establish them with the family background as check and balance for our probable excesses. A thoroughbred must be grounded in the tradition of his ancestors; it’s for the days like this we were born bro.
It can only means you have useful facts and you are defending your position with the facts at your disposal. Olu knows you won’t lie on such things too. But it is not “fact being fact” that you people are contending about, it is Olu’s place in the fact file that you are sharing. Fact is universal, anyone can use it, and maybe Olu borrow from your arsenal of facts that you once used to establish his own defense.
Nonetheless, the bone of contention gangan is LUUSI, I wont take Olu serious on some issue, but not on the area of tradition, and the truth is, LUUSI exists, and confirmed in OgunwUSI [Ogun-sprout-Usi] as a tenable figure in Yoruba historical phylum. He could be my ancestor, so I can't deny his existence once there are names and variant pieces of tradition built around the term: taaba fa gburu, gburu a fagbo.
No, my brother: we must take it one after the other. Olu has the LUUSI claim right from the onset. It’s an emblem of honour to him just as you have said. LUUSI was a great historical figure from whom he sprang. LUUSI is equivalent to [GIESI/OGBOORU/LAFOGIDO] to Olu, LUUSI is to him a prince of ILEIFE (as the branch that was not recon with in the scheme of things yet). I think its your frugal scrutiny that brought about the competition. LUUSI is aline on its own and O soko ekiti soko akoko is another line.
O s’oko ekiti s’oko akoko: that line is universal-set to the people who use it, it is the line all the people who spot that line in their oriki has in common, while LUUSI is what the Ogunwusi and Olu has in common, so its an intersection, as you have in Venn diagram. We needed to know who the “O” [soko ekiti…] signifies, it could be a forgotten ancestor or hero that the universal set has in common. Soko stand for a benevolent or oppressive historical figure depending on your angle.
Someone was responsible for that line of praise permeating into the description of the set, and that it also applies to ‘Attah of Igala’ means that soko, [sooko?] may not necessarily mean oppressor but the rallying point for the akoko and ekiti, to which a prince of any of the member of this set could have been in remote past.
I noticed Olu recourse to ‘dread’ as value for the ‘soko’, but that word is ambiguous and it is the same for sooko, the crown prince at Ife, so you don’t hold too lofty to one side alone until fact is established. Obalufoniii, you can find ways to break the word “sooko” to its simplest possible meaning. To me, one is the lofty version [Sooko: prince] and the other, [s'oko] the dread version, afterall, we do say "baale oko 'lu" So the oko here is that baale is a proto-Yoruba word meaning husband, oko, from the genital oko. one is pleasant than the other.
I understand the interference, there is always inflow and sharing of information within oriki orile [omo onife abure, omo adade owo remo], oriki iran[opomulero moja lekan] and oriki idile [erimoje omo saaja] and Isiri, [Oladigbolu, Oba Alaafin Oyo, Obanla tin f’obaje; Ibikunle, olododo kerijeri loju ogun] . Now the angle that favours Olu is oriki idile, which comes from ojaja, where the reigning ooni (may his days be long) hails from. His emblem (LUUSI) was not mentioned in the oriki iran because he [LUUSI] may have stand out, or branched out and lost out in the “oriki iran”. He [LUUSI] know that he exists somewhere and famous because of his origin, according to Olu, but the origin may be unaware of record of his exploit because he is an “orisa agbeni mafohun, ao mo teni tiise”.
Meanwhile, obalufon shared the oriki of the present ooni, and the name LUUSI popped up. It means that the “orisa agbeni mafoun” was a name from the ojaja household, who went to igbode by name LUUSI and that was all they know of him in ILEIFE oral gazette. The remnant of the information about “omo LUUSI” is expected to come from the remnant of the “omo LUUSI proper”, of which the ooni is not. The father (oriki idile) has invoked the name as anchor for the son (progeny) as a guide to forge a return, so to say, via the line of oriki that olu and ooni shared.
I also shared your perspective in that, the house of LUUSI needed to have an oriki that will be grafted into a particular house among the three ruling houses of Ife, but the fact that you said if one stand out, they often adopt a new oriki (isiri becomes oriki idile) means it may also apply to this branch too. But what I’m yet to know is, if Olu hails from a particular “LUUSI ruling house” at the present abode of LUUSI descendants? If so, what’s the name of the house and what is the name of the town if that may help? I have met a direct descendant of kunmi and we were colleagues in the defunct ‘Yoruba Heritage Mission’. He claimed Ijaiye Kunmi but he told me they were based in Abeokuta.
Again, I think Olu is also claiming that his LUUSI is older than the patriarchs of the Ife ruling houses, I don’t know if I’m correct about that.
Please dear brother, don’t hoard any information at your disposal. Any information that you share is all yours and when you expend one information, another one (vital reward) will spring to replace it in your collections of fact. Worry not about what anyone will do with your contributions. As to “Owalusi” being a market personality? Market personality is “oloja” in Yoruba: hmm, there is a story in it for us but let’s not go there, because they don’t understand their history just yet. Every ancient word in Yoruba (owa[obokun] or [orimo]lusi) is hyperlinked to a remote-Yoruba-history.
Pardon possible typos. Man’s tired.
Please brothers, relax the arguments for now, time is the greatest revealer of all secrets.
Studies in Oriki, With Osupa’s As Specimen
I made a mistake with the post while trying to edit it and separate the odu from my family politics and lost the post by mistake. However, what I said there was that
I lost my grandmother in 2005, and my step mum visited our village at a countryside called Idolehin, which was the safe haven for Dahome settlers at Ado-Odo. She came to greet us (omo oloku) and when she saw me, she said “omo eleba ori, omo ori onoja osan”. I was confused; I said “is this our oriki as well?” She said “no, its oriki ileba”, and that we hail from ileba, but we are a woman’s lineage (matrilineal) at Isolo compound. I was confused, so she offered an explanation thus:
“There was a time the Ado wanted to elect an osolo, the prime minister for the town, so the families of isolo were contesting to be one, and the two surnames were ogundipe and aike (ake). The aike contestant claimed that the ogundipe where not patrilineal in isolo because they were female’s offspring at isolo.” The ogundipe were therefore descendants of Ileba, where they have their inheritance.
That’s my stepmom’s inference out of quote, and that’s where we did have our inheritance truly, our family homestead in the village of Idoleyin is called Ileba, and our landed property is to be found in Igbonla. Meanwhile, the ogundipe have always been from the family and known themselves as isolo family. However, they also have an inheritance with the ileba people, which is another quarter (iga ileba) at a little distance to isolo compound in Ado town. But our oko (village) is located at Igbonla, and our aba (challet) at Ileba at the countryside call Idolehin.
At Ado, the Ileba were the custodians of Owonrin, and they do enact the rite of “elekule” (which is akin to arugba osun), where the women of the owonrin (awon olosha) will go to fetch water from the river Ado. The word elekule might mean ‘one who is coward before death is coward indeed’ ole-iku-lole. That may connote the ancestors were not afraid of the sea while exploring it to the uttermost end.
My stepmom readily buy the rival’s story because she is at loggerheads with the ogundipes, who want her to share (the proceeds of) the properties in her care with the rest of us, (since dad had two wives), they were fighting for ‘us’, but we are careful not to show interest because we can’t come in-between the two contending parties. Since my stepmom avoids the ogundipes, (she slugged it out with them in court to become custodian of the properties in question) she may prefer the aike’s version of the isolo-ogundipe background.
So one day I was passing by, I heard Saheed Osupa’s song blazing from somewhere and it says ‘omo ola ‘leba, omo igbonla’ in mourning his dad. I recalled my step mum’s story, and I wonder about the song, I don’t know how to harness it but it struck my mind that isolo, ileba, igbola were of the same set from the findings I’ve encountered in Osupa’s song.
Yesterday, I did find out that the title of the song is fuji icon, and the track is “dedicated to my dad”, I listened to it again and it confirmed something interesting, Osupa was carefully choosing his word and saying, “araa’iso-yan, omola’niba, omo igbonla [baba ojo gbogbo], omo [sakiti] wonyin-wonyin”.
That’s what I found out after a very attentive listening. I know he may not have the original words because at his end as an ibadan indegene there is no standing landmark to control the usage of the word and how it should be pronounced as we do at Ado, Osupa seemingly sounds blurry with the terms he is not very cleared about but vocalize the clear ones to be found in mainstream Yoruba lexicon.
We have Ola, Ileba, Isolo, Igbonla, owonri as historical words partaining to Ileba and Isolo at Ado, which may not have been disturbed historically since inception, while Oshupa is a thoroughbred native of Ayeye, Ibadan. Nevertheless, what we do have in common is the attribute of a common ancestor to some point: Osupa is "ara Isoyan", while I am omo bibi inu iga Isolo: [isoyan "Speech of Choice" Isolo "Loud Speech"]. Both trace to a public speaker ancestor.
So who is this ancestor that we both have in common? It is in the name Ola, just as LUUSI is all that Olu and Ogunwusi have in common. without mincing word, my oriki DNA is with everyone else who has Ola as their first line of oriki in Yoruba, whose other line can reflect a little of mine too. That's just it, or the point would be improbable and the purpose of oriki will fail.
T’ewe ba pe l’ara ose, aad’ose. None of us the vanguard of oriki, it is an intellectual device that verifies or confirm a common origin for two distance relatives whio had lost contact for thousand years in and around Yorubaland since it was invented. The key is, vital elements of two set of oriki must rhyme and have common roots and some aspect of it must agree, once that is established, the ancestral root or the historical link become established as well.
Albeit, I noticed that my own claim to owun olowonrin, which I often used here as my authority or credential to explore my “Yoruba are migrants” claim is what has been transformed to “omo wonyin-wonyi” in Saheed Osupa’s tradition. Now it has become “iforodara”, but it was a phrase that has lost its original bearing and has evolved to something totally different. This is explainable, because it has detached from its root.
Like Olu, Osupa may have to struggle with some concept of the oriki and may not understand it in clear terms compare to the way I would, as one who has the privilege of being born into the particular tradition that separates what was lumped together in osupa version (Isolo-Leba), but if I never come across osupa version, I won’t be able to unravel the puzzle my stepmom set forth in her section of the story.
if olu oral history claim lineage to oranmiyan and ile-ife..what is wrong in it ..depriving him of the link is as good as diminishing significance of ile-ife in yoruba race ..
? ... The question is this : What name did Yoruba bore when they lived between Hebrew and Egyptians ? According to legend, Yoruba bore different names such as Jebu(Yeb,), Offa,(Jaffa)etc. But the name from ILE IFE, was O o ni( he that owns) and these kind of names existed in Egypt before and around 160BCE,when the new Onias fled to Egypt from Jerusalem in Judah to establish Onias kingdom. 