enilove:


You are very correct .

It baffles one why the Muslims see this kind of repugnant declaration as God's revelation.

Why should a right thinking person be gambling with his\her life?

The most obnoxious answer someone could give regarding that surah 33:53 was that it was revealed to teach basic morals.

To me , I see the below as even worse than that Surah 33:53 :
Allah SWT says:

وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةٍ إِذَا قَضَى اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ ۥ ٓ أَمْرًا أَنْ يَكُونَ لَهُمُ الْخِيَرَةُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِمْ ۗ وَمَنْ يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۥ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلٰلًا مُّبِينًا
"It is not for a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter, that they should [thereafter] have any choice about their affair. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has certainly strayed into clear error."
(QS. Al-Ahzaab: Verse 36)

Allah used to consult Muhammad for decisions and after that , no more options for the Muslims but to just follow .
But there was a case where Allah and Muhammad made mistake and someone had to put them right :

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 512:
Sahih Bukhari :
Narrated Al-Bara:

There was revealed: 'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive and fight in the Cause of Allah.' (4.95)

The Prophet said, "Call Zaid for me and let him bring the board, the inkpot and the scapula bone (or the scapula bone and the ink pot)."' Then he said, "Write: 'Not equal are those Believers who sit..", and at that time 'Amr bin Um Maktum, the blind man was sitting behind the Prophet . He said, "O Allah's Apostle! What is your order For me (as regards the above Verse) as I am a blind man?" So, instead of the above Verse, the following Verse was revealed:

'Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame etc.) and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah.' (4.95)

So , Allah and Muhammad did not remember the blinds and the unfit .

The worst of them all is this :

Allah SWT says:

وَإِذْ تَقُولُ لِلَّذِىٓ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْسِكْ عَلَيْكَ زَوْجَكَ وَاتَّقِ اللَّهَ وَتُخْفِى فِى نَفْسِكَ مَا اللَّهُ مُبْدِيهِ وَتَخْشَى النَّاسَ وَاللَّهُ أَحَقُّ أَنْ تَخْشٰىهُ ۖ فَلَمَّا قَضٰى زَيْدٌ مِّنْهَا وَطَرًا زَوَّجْنٰكَهَا لِكَىْ لَا يَكُونَ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ حَرَجٌ فِىٓ أَزْوٰجِ أَدْعِيَآئِهِمْ إِذَا قَضَوْا مِنْهُنَّ وَطَرًا ۚ وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ مَفْعُولًا
"And [remember, O Muhammad], when you said to the one on whom Allah bestowed favor and you bestowed favor, "Keep your wife and fear Allah," while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him. So when Zayd had no longer any need for her, We married her to you in order that there not be upon the believers any discomfort concerning the wives of their adopted sons when they no longer have need of them. And ever is the command of Allah accomplished."
(QS. Al-Ahzaab: Verse 37)

I know the Muslims really need prayers . What do you think?

The best way to reach out to Muslims is through their own books: the Koran, the hadith and the sirah rasool allahh. These three types of Islamic source documents are enough to debate any Muslim and show him the foolishness in following the 7th century Arabian warlord.

The idea of using the Bible to convince a radical online Muslim is a waste of time; their own books already condemned their perfect man as a charlatan. You can see thousands of reasons, inside those books, that directly condemned the prophet of allahh (police be upon him).

On the ayah and the hadith you posted above, that's the way to go. No any critically-minded person will read those expositions and still consider Mohammed normal, even by the 7th century standard. Most Muslims are decent human beings who are very ignorant of the damning contents, in the 3 Islamic canonical books, against their criminal prophet. If you read sirah rasool Allah, by ibn ishaq you will surely conclude that Mohammed can only be compared to Uther Pendragon, if you watch the adventure of MERLIN.

You are doing a great job, keep it up. Learn more about Islam through the hadith and the sirah. The Quran contains less than 10% information about Islam.

true2god:
The best way to reach out to Muslims is through their own books: the Koran, the hadith and the sirah rasool allahh. These three types of Islamic source documents are enough to debate any Muslim and show him the foolishness in following the 7th century Arabian warlord.

The idea of using the Bible to convince a radical online Muslim is a waste of time; their own books already condemned their perfect man as a charlatan. You can see thousands of reasons, inside those books, that directly condemned the prophet of allahh (police be upon him).

On the ayah and the hadith you posted above, that's the way to go. No any critically-minded person will read those expositions and still consider Mohammed normal, even by the 7th century standard. Most Muslims are decent human beings who are very ignorant of the damning contents, in the 3 Islamic canonical books, against their criminal prophet. If you read sirah rasool Allah, by ibn ishaq you will surely conclude that Mohammed can only be compared to Uther Pendragon, if you watch the adventure of MERLIN.

You are doing a great job, keep it up. Learn more about Islam through the hadith and the sirah. The Quran contains less than 10% information about Islam.

You are right , most Christians need to know one or two things about Islam so as not to get into their traps.
Pls , try and create time even if its on weekend to teach us one or two things for Christ's sake.

How can I get the electronic copy of the surah?

Thanks . God bless you , in Jesus' name.

Enilove,

Do you agree with historian that 90 year Joseph the carpenter married 12 year old Mary, the mother of Jesus?. Pls your answer should be Yes or No

Empiree:
Enilove,

Do you agree with historian that 90 year Joseph the carpenter married 12 year old Mary, the mother of Jesus?. Pls your answer should be Yes or No

Use the Quran , hadith or the Bible as your references , not the books of demon possessed historians.

enilove:


Use the Quran , hadith or the Bible as your references , not the books of demon possessed historians.

Answer my question. It is Yes or No. Dont worry about Quran or Hadith. If reference is not in your Bible, simply say no. Ko sija nbe now

Empiree:
Answer my question. It is Yes or No. Dont worry about Quran or Hadith. If reference is not in your Bible, simply say no. Ko sija nbe now

That is always the last resort for the incompetents which I believe you are not , based on your posts.
Why should we even think about that ? It will gradually degenerate to name calling.

enilove:


That is always the last resort for the incompetents which I believe you are not , based on your posts.
Why should we even think about that ? It will gradually degenerate to name calling.

I'm not here for name calling. Why are you afraid to answer?. You should be confident enough to say yes or no if there is nothing like that in your bible. I simply want to analyze something base on your answer. That's all. Don't be afraid.

enilove:


You are right , most Christians need to know one or two things about Islam so as not to get into their traps.
Pls , try and create time even if its on weekend to teach us one or two things for Christ's sake.

How can I get the electronic copy of the surah?

Thanks . God bless you , in Jesus' name.

Give me your email address to forward you the e-copy of sirah rasool allahh by Mohammed ibn ishaq and the tafsir of the Koran by ibn Kathie.

Empiree:
I'm not here for name calling. Why are you afraid to answer?. You should be confident enough to say yes or no if there is nothing like that in your bible. I simply want to analyze something base on your answer. That's all. Don't be afraid.

No , I don't agree.

true2god:
Give me your email address to forward you the e-copy of sirah rasool allahh by Mohammed ibn ishaq and the tafsir of the Koran by ibn Kathie.

oridamisi@gmail.com

Thanks , God bless you.

enilove:


No , I don't agree.

Good. You don't agree because it is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible that 99 year old Josef married 12 year old Mary. Therefore, you are under no obligation to believe historian. Am I right?.

It is the same with historian called Ibn Ishaq that true2god is talking about. He wants to teach you Islam but he said if you want to know about Islam you should study sirah of prophet Muhammad (saw) written by In Ishaq. He said Quran only contains 10% history of Islam.

Now if you are sincere enough, why would you wanna believe historian who is not the prophet and his writing is not a Divine Book, the same way historian wrote about Josef and Mary?. In Ishaq was not the prophet but historian. Why would you wanna believe everything he said?.

Empiree:
Good. You don't agree because it is not explicitly mentioned in the Bible that 99 year old Josef married 12 year old Mary. Therefore, you are under no obligation to believe historian. Am I right?.

It is the same with historian called Ibn Ishaq that true2god is talking about. He wants to teach you Islam but he said if you want to know about Islam you should study sirah of prophet Muhammad (saw) written by In Ishaq. He said Quran only contains 10% history of Islam.

Now if you are sincere enough, why would you wanna believe historian who is not the prophet and his writing is not a Divine Book, the same way historian wrote about Josef and Mary?. In Ishaq was not the prophet but historian. Why would you wanna believe everything he said?.

Stop mixing things up bro; you are being intellectually dishonest. Read my post again, I said that the Qur'an contains less that 10% information (not history) about Islam. The sirah rasul allahh is the earliest biography about Islam and Mohammed available anywhere.

1)The Quran does not contain how Mohammed became a fake prophet.

2)The Quran does not have information on how khadija took Mohammed to her uncle, waraqa.

3) The Quran does not tell us how Mohammed became suicidal when the so-called angel jibril attempted to choke him to death, etc. There are many things Muslims believed and taught that are in the sirah but not in the Qur'an. If some are embarrassing to Muslims, it is not my fault.

There is nowhere it was recorded that Joseph was 99 while Mary was 12 at the point they married. You can show me the document if you have any. This information is only circulated by Muslims to justify Mohammed's marriage to Aisha when she was 6.

true2god:
Stop mixing things up bro; you are being intellectually dishonest. Read my post again, I said that the Qur'an contains less that 10% information (not history) about Islam. The sirah rasul allahh is the earliest biography about Islam and Mohammed available anywhere.

Sorry bro. Islam is Qur'an. QUR'AN it's Islam. Quran is REVEALATION not history books. Quran is the only accurate Divine Book that's guaranteed protection.

When it comes to Islam, the first thing we turn to is Qur'an that's our primary source of information. Not a piece of literature elsewhere. Quran sits in Judgement over everything else. You had better off saying "information about Islam". History is separately written by people which may contain inaccurate information.

true2god:
1)The Quran does not contain how Mohammed became a fake prophet.

2)The Quran does not have information on how khadija took Mohammed to her uncle, waraqa.

3) The Quran does not tell us how Mohammed became suicidal when the so-called angel jibril attempted to choke him to death, etc. There are many things Muslims believed and taught that are in the sirah but not in the Qur'an. If some are embarrassing to Muslims, it is not my fault.

There is nowhere it was recorded that Joseph was 99 while Mary was 12 at the point they married. You can show me the document if you have any. This information is only circulated by Muslims to justify Mohammed's marriage to Aisha when she was 6.

Why didn't you answer this if you want to talk about Qur'an doesn't give information how prophet Muhammad was a prophet?. Why did you skip this?

Empiree:


1- Did Moses have any witnesses or was he foretold in any previous book to prove that he was truthful?


2- Did King David have any witnesses or was foretold in the books that came before him? How do you believe in his revelations when he slept with his neighbor's wife?


3- Did Solomon, Ezra, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Job and the rest of the Prophets foretold each others? How do you believe in Solomon's revelations when he said that his wife's "vagina tastes like wine" for him?


4- Were the Disciples of Jesus foretold in the Bible?


5- Was the Disciple Paul foretold in the Bible, since he never even met Jesus in person?


The answer to the all of the above is NO! None of the Bible's Prophets except for Jesus and Muhammad were ever foretold.

Empiree:
Sorry bro. Islam is Qur'an. QUR'AN it's Islam. Quran is REVEALATION not history books. Quran is the only accurate Divine Book that's guaranteed protection.

When it comes to Islam, the first thing we turn to is Qur'an that's our primary source of information. Not a piece of literature elsewhere. Quran sits in Judgement over everything else. You had better off saying "information about Islam". History is separately written by people which may contain inaccurate information.



Why didn't you answer this if you want to talk about Qur'an doesn't give information how prophet Muhammad was a prophet?. Why did you skip this?

Your attempt at muddling things up further reveals how ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest you are, the hallmark of a true Muslim.

The Quran is never Islam's only source document; we have the Qur'an, the hadith and the sirah. The Quran is not always detailed and/or clear hence you need the sirah, the hadith and the tafsir to clear up the confusions in the Quran. All the 5 schools of Islamic jurisprudence accept this as a fact.

You can try to muddle up issues as much as you want which further exposes your dishonesty.

I laughed when you tried, again, to muddle up the prophecy of the coming of Christ, and at the same time brought Mohammed into the equation, using the Christian scripture which you Muslims claim to be 'corrupt' or had been 'corrupted'. You Muslims are 100% confused.

How is it convenient for Muslims to lie with straight face?

true2god:
Your attempt at muddling things up further reveals how ignorant and/or intellectually dishonest you are, the hallmark of a true Muslim.

The Quran is never Islam's only source document; we have the Qur'an, the hadith and the sirah. The Quran is not always detailed and/or clear hence you need the sirah, the hadith and the tafsir to clear up the confusions in the Quran. All the 5 schools of Islamic jurisprudence accept this as a fact.

Listen, Quran is the ONLY absolute REVEALATION. And I said it is a PRIMARY source. I never told you it is the only source. There are only two sources, Quran & Hadith(second source). Seerat(biography) is what is written about you which may contain inaccurate information about you. Besides, we are only using Qur'an and Bible here. You guys are the ones sniffing around. In that case, I have the right to use or cite references from your bible studies which include history books outside of the Bible.

You can try to muddle up issues as much as you want which further exposes your dishonesty.

I laughed when you tried, again, to muddle up the prophecy of the coming of Christ, and at the same time brought Mohammed into the equation, using the Christian scripture which you Muslims claim to be 'corrupt' or had been 'corrupted'. You Muslims are 100% confused.

How is it convenient for Muslims to lie with straight face?

we never told you that ENTIRE Bible is corrupt. We said Bible is mixed up with falsehood and truth. That's why we use Quran as standard criteria to figure out truth that is in harmony with Quran. However, falsehood therein overshadows the truth.

Example of this manifested earlier when the two guys can not give us accurate identity of Jesus. You have been here for long too and none of you guys can give us identity of Jesus without mixing nonsense with it. This is the reason you always look in to Ibn Ishaq for CONVINIENCE. Quran is the only absolute truth. Neither Hadith nor seerah is 100 accurate.

Anytime we debate Christians we use Quran vs Bible 85% of the time, untill you guys start sticking your nose in the Hadith which happened here anytime you guys can't defend yourselves.

Empiree:
Listen, Quran is the ONLY absolute REVEALATION. And I said it is a PRIMARY source. I never told you it is the only source. There are only two sources, Quran & Hadith(second source). Seerat(biography) is what is written about you which may contain inaccurate information about you. Besides, we are only using Qur'an and Bible here. You guys are the ones sniffing around. In that case, I have the right to use or cite references from your bible studies which include history books outside of the Bible.



we never told you that ENTIRE Bible is corrupt. We said Bible is mixed up with falsehood and truth. That's why we use Quran as standard criteria to figure out truth that is in harmony with Quran. However, falsehood therein overshadows the truth.

Example of this manifested earlier when the two guys can not give us accurate identity of Jesus. You have been here for long too and none of you guys can give us identity of Jesus without mixing nonsense with it. This is the reason you always look in to Ibn Ishaq for CONVINIENCE. Quran is the only absolute truth. Neither Hadith nor seerah is 100 accurate.

Anytime we debate Christians we use Quran vs Bible 85% of the time, untill you guys start sticking your nose in the Hadith which happened here anytime you guys can't defend yourselves.

You cannot use the word ABSOLUTE for the Quran. Absoluteness denotes unity and there is no unity in Islamic source documents. How can you say the Qur'an is ABSOLUTE when over 80% of Islamic laws and practices (including the proclamation of fatwa) are found in the hadith and not the Quran?

The number of times a Muslim pray is not in the Quran but in the hadith.

The 5 pillars of Islam is not in the Quran but the hadith.

The number of days you should fast in not in the Quran but in the hadith.

How to perform ablution is not in the Quran but the hadith.

The shahada (sahih Bukhari 4:52:196) is not in the Quran but the hadith.

The punishment for adultery/formication is not in the Qur'an but in the hadith.

How to clean yourself, after using the restroom, is not in the Qur'an but in the hadith.

Going to mecca is not in the Qur'an but in the hadith.

Kissing the idol black stone is not instructed in the Qur'an but the hadith.

Running around the kabba shrine cannot be found in the Quran but the hadith. And so many other Islamic practices. Why then do you say the Qur'an is 'absolute' when most of Islamic practices can only be found in the hadith?

The Qur'an is of no value in Islam; it is just a book used by Muslims to deceive the kafirs. The real books Muslims used in their day-to-day religious practices is the hadith and the sirah. Stop deceiving yourself.

You make a claim that some parts of the bible is corrupt, especially the ones that refute Islamic beliefs, can you provide the incorruptible Bible, by Islamic standard, so that I can throw away the current Bible I have?

If the hadith and the sirah are not 100% reliable, why are you guys still using it? You mean the hadith and the sirah are like tomatoes that you can cherry-pick the ones that suit you and leave the rotten ones?

You have to be smart bro!

true2god:
You cannot use the word ABSOLUTE for the Quran. Absoluteness denotes unity and there is no unity in Islamic source documents. How can you say the Qur'an is ABSOLUTE when over 80% of Islamic laws and practices (including the proclamation of fatwa) are found in the hadith and not the Quran?

Seriously?. Are you the one reading my posts or my posts are reading you?. Whats fatwa and Islamic laws have to do with this?. I simply said Quran is ABSOLUTE revelation without error. Hadith or seerah contain error. You have comprehension problem?

The number of times a Muslim pray is not in the Quran but in the hadith.

The 5 pillars of Islam is not in the Quran but the hadith.

The number of days you should fast in not in the Quran but in the hadith.

How to perform ablution is not in the Quran but the hadith.

The shahada (sahih Bukhari 4:52:196) is not in the Quran but the hadith.

The punishment for adultery/formication is not in the Qur'an but in the hadith.

How to clean yourself, after using the restroom, is not in the Qur'an but in the hadith.

Going to mecca is not in the Qur'an but in the hadith.

Kissing the idol black stone is not instructed in the Qur'an but the hadith.

Running around the kabba shrine cannot be found in the Quran but the hadith. And so many other Islamic practices. Why then do you say the Qur'an is 'absolute' when most of Islamic practices can only be found in the hadith?

The Qur'an is of no value in Islam; it is just a book used by Muslims to deceive the kafirs. The real books Muslims used in their day-to-day religious practices is the hadith and the sirah. Stop deceiving yourself.

You make a claim that some parts of the bible is corrupt, especially the ones that refute Islamic beliefs, can you provide the incorruptible Bible, by Islamic standard, so that I can throw away the current Bible I have?

If the hadith and the sirah are not 100% reliable, why are you guys still using it? You mean the hadith and the sirah are like tomatoes that you can cherry-pick the ones that suit you and leave the rotten ones?

You have to be smart bro!

I am sure these were explained to you yrs ago. I am not going back. YOu know what you're doing. Oooh...I get it. christiatian evangelists have thought you a new tactic?. If Quran is of no value in islam, i wonder what we recite everyday in our prayers?. Everything you mentioned above, majority of them have background in the Qur'an, and hadith expanciates. You blind to see bcus of your carnal mind

Empiree:
Listen, Quran is the ONLY absolute REVEALATION. And I said it is a PRIMARY source. I never told you it is the only source. There are only two sources, Quran & Hadith(second source). Seerat(biography) is what is written about you which may contain inaccurate information about you. Besides, we are only using Qur'an and Bible here. You guys are the ones sniffing around. In that case, I have the right to use or cite references from your bible studies which include history books outside of the Bible.



we never told you that ENTIRE Bible is corrupt. We said Bible is mixed up with falsehood and truth. That's why we use Quran as standard criteria to figure out truth that is in harmony with Quran. However, falsehood therein overshadows the truth.

Example of this manifested earlier when the two guys can not give us accurate identity of Jesus. You have been here for long too and none of you guys can give us identity of Jesus without mixing nonsense with it. This is the reason you always look in to Ibn Ishaq for CONVINIENCE. Quran is the only absolute truth. Neither Hadith nor seerah is 100 accurate.

Anytime we debate Christians we use Quran vs Bible 85% of the time, untill you guys start sticking your nose in the Hadith which happened here anytime you guys can't defend yourselves.

The 2 Biblical account of death of Judas are not contradictory in that both accounts confirmed that Judas died . What can really be considered contradictory is by saying he died in one account and did not die in another account , like what is in the Quran :

The Quran tells us that Pharaoh was saved in the Red Sea and did not drown. Surah 10 :90-92 :
1)
Allah SWT says:
وَجٰوَزْنَا بِبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ الْبَحْرَ فَأَتْبَعَهُمْ فِرْعَوْنُ وَجُنُودُهُ ۥ بَغْيًا وَعَدْوًا ۖ حَتّٰىٓ إِذَآ أَدْرَكَهُ الْغَرَقُ قَالَ ءَامَنْتُ أَنَّهُ ۥ لَآ إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الَّذِىٓ ءَامَنَتْ بِهِۦ بَنُوٓا إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ وَأَنَا۠ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
"And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers pursued them in tyranny and enmity until, when drowning overtook him, he said, "I believe that there is no deity except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of the Muslims.""
(QS. Yunus: Verse 90)
ءَآلْئٰنَ وَقَدْ عَصَيْتَ قَبْلُ وَكُنْتَ مِنَ الْمُفْسِدِينَ
"Now? And you had disobeyed [Him] before and were of the corrupters?"
(QS. Yunus: Verse 91)
فَالْيَوْمَ نُنَجِّيكَ بِبَدَنِكَ لِتَكُونَ لِمَنْ خَلْفَكَ ءَايَةً ۚ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ ءَايٰتِنَا لَغٰفِلُونَ
"So today We will save you in body that you may be to those who succeed you a sign. And indeed, many among the people, of Our signs, are heedless"
(QS. Yunus: Verse 92)
* Via the Beautiful Qur'an https:///QLwc8B

The same Quran also tells us that Pharaoh was not saved but drowned :
2)
Allah SWT says:
وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ يٰٓأَيُّهَا الْمَلَأُ مَا عَلِمْتُ لَكُمْ مِّنْ إِلٰهٍ غَيْرِى فَأَوْقِدْ لِى يٰهٰمٰنُ عَلَى الطِّينِ فَاجْعَل لِّى صَرْحًا لَّعَلِّىٓ أَطَّلِعُ إِلٰىٓ إِلٰهِ مُوسٰى وَإِنِّى لَأَظُنُّهُ ۥ مِنَ الْكٰذِبِينَ
"And Pharaoh said, "O eminent ones, I have not known you to have a god other than me. Then ignite for me, O Haman, [a fire] upon the clay and make for me a tower that I may look at the God of Moses. And indeed, I do think he is among the liars.""
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 38)
وَاسْتَكْبَرَ هُوَ وَجُنُودُهُ ۥ فِى الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ وَظَنُّوٓا أَنَّهُمْ إِلَيْنَا لَا يُرْجَعُونَ
"And he was arrogant, he and his soldiers, in the land, without right, and they thought that they would not be returned to Us."
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 39)
فَأَخَذْنٰهُ وَجُنُودَهُ ۥ فَنَبَذْنٰهُمْ فِى الْيَمِّ ۖ فَانْظُرْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عٰقِبَةُ الظّٰلِمِينَ
"So We took him and his soldiers and threw them into the sea. So see how was the end of the wrongdoers."
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 40)

It wouldn't have been considered a contradiction if one surah had said "Pharaoh was "found floating on the sea dead" and another surah saying "found dead on the sea shore".

But this very Quran is the liar , a book written by man-hammad
and not God.

Can you see why it is not good to jump into conclusion without being sure of what you are doing?

If the Quran were perfect , there wouldn't have been need to support it with hearsays ( Hadiths ).

We have proved to you the idolatry in Islam and its fake or Google revelations and now , a plain contradiction and lie.

What else is there for you to learn b4 you accept Jesus Christ who raised the dead , healed the sick , created a bird from mud and died for our sins to give us eternal life ?
Jesus does not belong to anyone but to everyone.

Empiree:
Seriously?. Are you the one reading my posts or my posts are reading you?. Whats fatwa and Islamic laws have to do with this?. I simply said Quran is ABSOLUTE revelation without error. Hadith or seerah contain error. You have comprehension problem?



I am sure these were explained to you yrs ago. I am not going back. YOu know what you're doing. Oooh...I get it. christiatian evangelists have thought you a new tactic?. If Quran is of no value in islam, i wonder what we recite everyday in our prayers?. Everything you mentioned above, majority of them have background in the Qur'an, and hadith expanciates. You blind to see bcus of your carnal mind

Ad hominem attack!

My reference to fatwa is relevant to this discussion since you make a claim that the Quran is absolute, that is supreme. If that is the case, I now ask you, which Islamic documents do the muftis or ulamas consult more extensively before making a religious ruling? The Quran or the hadith?

You also make a claim that the Qur'an contains zero or no error, do you mind of I give you scientific, historical and geographical errors in the Quran?

Concerning your last claim, you never refuted why we have many Islamic religious beliefs in the hadith that can never be found in the Quran. Can you mention any day-to-day islamic beliefs and practices that are exclusively found in the Qur'an?

Do you know the meaning of Absoluteness that you used in this context? Don't try words around if you don't know the technical reasons they are used.

Asalama lekum!

Kikikikiki I laughed in spanglish

enilove:



The 2 Biblical account of death of Judas are not contradictory in that both accounts confirmed that Judas died . What can really be considered contradictory is by saying he died in one account and did not die in another account , like what is in the Quran :

The Quran tells us that Pharaoh was saved in the Red Sea and did not drown. Surah 10 :90-92 :
1)
Allah SWT says:
وَجٰوَزْنَا بِبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ الْبَحْرَ فَأَتْبَعَهُمْ فِرْعَوْنُ وَجُنُودُهُ ۥ بَغْيًا وَعَدْوًا ۖ حَتّٰىٓ إِذَآ أَدْرَكَهُ الْغَرَقُ قَالَ ءَامَنْتُ أَنَّهُ ۥ لَآ إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الَّذِىٓ ءَامَنَتْ بِهِۦ بَنُوٓا إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ وَأَنَا۠ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
"And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers pursued them in tyranny and enmity until, when drowning overtook him, he said, "I believe that there is no deity except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of the Muslims.""
(QS. Yunus: Verse 90)
ءَآلْئٰنَ وَقَدْ عَصَيْتَ قَبْلُ وَكُنْتَ مِنَ الْمُفْسِدِينَ
"Now? And you had disobeyed [Him] before and were of the corrupters?"
(QS. Yunus: Verse 91)
فَالْيَوْمَ نُنَجِّيكَ بِبَدَنِكَ لِتَكُونَ لِمَنْ خَلْفَكَ ءَايَةً ۚ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ ءَايٰتِنَا لَغٰفِلُونَ
"So today We will save you in body that you may be to those who succeed you a sign. And indeed, many among the people, of Our signs, are heedless"
(QS. Yunus: Verse 92)
* Via the Beautiful Qur'an https:///QLwc8B

The same Quran also tells us that Pharaoh was not saved but drowned :
2)
Allah SWT says:
وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ يٰٓأَيُّهَا الْمَلَأُ مَا عَلِمْتُ لَكُمْ مِّنْ إِلٰهٍ غَيْرِى فَأَوْقِدْ لِى يٰهٰمٰنُ عَلَى الطِّينِ فَاجْعَل لِّى صَرْحًا لَّعَلِّىٓ أَطَّلِعُ إِلٰىٓ إِلٰهِ مُوسٰى وَإِنِّى لَأَظُنُّهُ ۥ مِنَ الْكٰذِبِينَ
"And Pharaoh said, "O eminent ones, I have not known you to have a god other than me. Then ignite for me, O Haman, [a fire] upon the clay and make for me a tower that I may look at the God of Moses. And indeed, I do think he is among the liars.""
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 38)
وَاسْتَكْبَرَ هُوَ وَجُنُودُهُ ۥ فِى الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ وَظَنُّوٓا أَنَّهُمْ إِلَيْنَا لَا يُرْجَعُونَ
"And he was arrogant, he and his soldiers, in the land, without right, and they thought that they would not be returned to Us."
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 39)
فَأَخَذْنٰهُ وَجُنُودَهُ ۥ فَنَبَذْنٰهُمْ فِى الْيَمِّ ۖ فَانْظُرْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عٰقِبَةُ الظّٰلِمِينَ
"So We took him and his soldiers and threw them into the sea. So see how was the end of the wrongdoers."
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 40)

It wouldn't have been considered a contradiction if one surah had said "Pharaoh was "found floating on the sea dead" and another surah saying "found dead on the sea shore".

But this very Quran is the liar , a book written by man-hammad
and not God.

Can you see why it is not good to jump into conclusion without being sure of what you are doing?

If the Quran were perfect , there wouldn't have been need to support it with hearsays ( Hadiths ).

We have proved to you the idolatry in Islam and its fake or Google revelations and now , a plain contradiction and lie.

What else is there for you to learn b4 you accept Jesus Christ who raised the dead , heal the sick , created a bird from mud and died for our sins to give us eternal life ?
Jesus does not belong to anyone but to everyone.

Dont bring Judas nonsense here. Go and address it in that thread. Both passages of your bible gave complete different accounts and you are here trying to fault Quran?. You are a joke. Both verses are saying the same thing. He died in the sea while chasing Moses and his people depending on how you express it. But Bible accounts of Judas's death are completely opposite to each other.

Try again ENi

true2god:
Ad hominem attack!

My reference to fatwa is relevant to this discussion since you make a claim that the Quran is absolute, that is supreme. If that is the case, I now ask you, which Islamic documents do the muftis or ulamas consult more extensively before making a religious ruling? The Quran or the hadith?

You also make a claim that the Qur'an contains zero or no error, do you mind of I give you scientific, historical and geographical errors in the Quran?

Concerning your last claim, you never refuted why we have many Islamic religious beliefs in the hadith that can never be found in the Quran. Can you mention any day-to-day islamic beliefs and practices that are exclusively found in the Qur'an?

Do you know the meaning of Absoluteness that you used in this context? Don't try words around if you don't know the technical reasons they are used.

Asalama lekum!

WHo are you trying to con, eehen? Shahada, salat, sadaqat, righteous good deeds are day-to-day practices

Walaikum salaam

Empiree:
Kikikikiki I laughed in spanglish ;DDont bring Judas nonsense here. Go and address it in that thread. Both passages of your bible gave complete different accounts and you are here trying to fault Quran?. You are a joke. Both verses are saying the same thing. He died in the sea while chasing Moses and his people depending on how you express it. But Bible accounts of Judas's death are completely opposite to each other.

Try again ENi

SHOW ME WHERE THE BELOW SURAH SAYS PHAROAH DIED.


Surah 10 :90-92 :
1)
Allah SWT says:
وَجٰوَزْنَا بِبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ الْبَحْرَ فَأَتْبَعَهُمْ فِرْعَوْنُ وَجُنُودُهُ ۥ بَغْيًا وَعَدْوًا ۖ حَتّٰىٓ إِذَآ أَدْرَكَهُ الْغَرَقُ قَالَ ءَامَنْتُ أَنَّهُ ۥ لَآ إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الَّذِىٓ ءَامَنَتْ بِهِۦ بَنُوٓا إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ وَأَنَا۠ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
"And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his soldiers pursued them in tyranny and enmity until, when drowning overtook him, he said, "I believe that there is no deity except that in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of the Muslims.""
(QS. Yunus: Verse 90)
ءَآلْئٰنَ وَقَدْ عَصَيْتَ قَبْلُ وَكُنْتَ مِنَ الْمُفْسِدِينَ
"Now? And you had disobeyed [Him] before and were of the corrupters?"
(QS. Yunus: Verse 91)
فَالْيَوْمَ نُنَجِّيكَ بِبَدَنِكَ لِتَكُونَ لِمَنْ خَلْفَكَ ءَايَةً ۚ وَإِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِّنَ النَّاسِ عَنْ ءَايٰتِنَا لَغٰفِلُونَ
"So today We will save you in body that you may be to those who succeed you a sign. And indeed, many among the people, of Our signs, are heedless"
(QS. Yunus: Verse 92)
* Via the Beautiful Qur'an https:///QLwc8B


BUT THIS ONE SAYS HE DIED IN THE SEA :

Allah SWT says:
وَقَالَ فِرْعَوْنُ يٰٓأَيُّهَا الْمَلَأُ مَا عَلِمْتُ لَكُمْ مِّنْ إِلٰهٍ غَيْرِى فَأَوْقِدْ لِى يٰهٰمٰنُ عَلَى الطِّينِ فَاجْعَل لِّى صَرْحًا لَّعَلِّىٓ أَطَّلِعُ إِلٰىٓ إِلٰهِ مُوسٰى وَإِنِّى لَأَظُنُّهُ ۥ مِنَ الْكٰذِبِينَ
"And Pharaoh said, "O eminent ones, I have not known you to have a god other than me. Then ignite for me, O Haman, [a fire] upon the clay and make for me a tower that I may look at the God of Moses. And indeed, I do think he is among the liars.""
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 38)
وَاسْتَكْبَرَ هُوَ وَجُنُودُهُ ۥ فِى الْأَرْضِ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ وَظَنُّوٓا أَنَّهُمْ إِلَيْنَا لَا يُرْجَعُونَ
"And he was arrogant, he and his soldiers, in the land, without right, and they thought that they would not be returned to Us."
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 39)
فَأَخَذْنٰهُ وَجُنُودَهُ ۥ فَنَبَذْنٰهُمْ فِى الْيَمِّ ۖ فَانْظُرْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عٰقِبَةُ الظّٰلِمِينَ
"So We took him and his soldiers and threw them into the sea. So see how was the end of the wrongdoers."
(QS. Al-Qasas: Verse 40)

ANYONE VIEWING THIS WILL KNOW HOW YOU MUSLIMS CAN LIE WITHOUT REMORSE OR SHAME.

It is unfortunate that the practice of Tagiyyah cannot say anyone.

Is this not a contradiction ?

Empiree:
WHo are you trying to con, eehen? Shahada, salat, sadaqat, righteous good deeds are day-to-day practices

Walaikum salaam

.

Empiree:
WHo are you trying to con, eehen? Shahada, salat, sadaqat, righteous good deeds are day-to-day practices

Walaikum salaam

Con as in how? Hope you didnt get carried away with my asalama lekum! I was making a point you can't refute.

Can you show me the ayah you have the shahada in the quran? I asked you of Islamic practices that are only exclusive to to Quran. The answer is none.

If you show me the shahada in the Qur'an I will become a Muslim now.

salama lekum!

true2god:
Con as in how? Hope you didnt get carried away with my asalama lekum! I was making a point you can't refute.

Can you show me the ayah you have the shahada in the quran? I asked you of Islamic practices that are only exclusive to to Quran. The answer is none.

If you show me the shahada in the Qur'an I will become a Muslim now.

salama lekum!

You are right , the Muslims can lie without ceasing . They don't think twice.

My other reply was meant for him . I did not imagine him to say someone was cunning when that is his tactics.

Well done bro.

You are becoming very silly now. With everything as clear as daylight in front of you, you are asking silly questions knowing too well in your heart you are deceiving yourself. I understand what both of you are doing. You are using outdated evangelical tactics which further make you guys silly.

enilove:



"So today We will save you in body that you may be to those who succeed you a sign. And indeed, many among the people, of Our signs, are heedless"
(QS. Yunus: Verse 92)
* Via the Beautiful Qur'an https:///QLwc8B

I will stop responding to both of you soon. You are doing this just because you can't defend your religion. You can't tell us why Jesus is God and Son of God at the same time. So it is irrelevant answering you any further untill you can make sense out of yourself. I will only reply your second dude when I get on my regular pc.

For record, according to the verse you quoted, it says God would preserve physical body of pharaoh. So here is his physical body showing he's dead like a smoked fish. This is the evidence and my answer to your silly question

Empiree:
You are becoming very silly now. With everything as clear as daylight in front of you, you are asking silly questions knowing too well in your heart you are deceiving yourself. I understand what both of you are doing. You are using outdated evangelical tactics which further make you guys silly. I will stop responding to both of you soon. You are doing this just because you can't defend your religion. You can't tell us why Jesus is God and Son of God at the same time. So it is irrelevant answering you any further untill you can make sense out of yourself. I will only reply your second dude when I get on my regular pc.

For record, according to the verse you quoted, it says God would preserve physical body of pharaoh. So here is his physical body showing he's dead like a smoked fish. This is the evidence and my answer to your silly question

You are yet to show me where we have the shahada in the Quran. One cannot become a Muslim without saying the shahada, kindly show me where shahada is instructed in the Koran.

true2god:
You are yet to show me where we have the shahada in the Quran. One cannot become a Muslim without saying the shahada, kindly show me where shahada is instructed in the Koran.

this is one of the reasons you fail exams. First all, that post was not for you. Second, if truly you read it you would have read where I said I would reply you when I get on my PC.. so why are you hasty?

Empiree:
You are becoming very silly now. With everything as clear as daylight in front of you, you are asking silly questions knowing too well in your heart you are deceiving yourself. I understand what both of you are doing. You are using outdated evangelical tactics which further make you guys silly. I will stop responding to both of you soon. You are doing this just because you can't defend your religion. You can't tell us why Jesus is God and Son of God at the same time. So it is irrelevant answering you any further untill you can make sense out of yourself. I will only reply your second dude when I get on my regular pc.

For record, according to the verse you quoted, it says God would preserve physical body of pharaoh. So here is his physical body showing he's dead like a smoked fish. This is the evidence and my answer to your silly question

Who is silly between you and I ?

How can his physical body be saved , when his spirit and soul are gone? What is the need for that?
What is God going to do with his physical body ?

This means had Allah actually saved him , the verse would have been written NOW WE WILL SAVE YOUR SPIRIT , isn't it ?

Why defending a lie. Was the first muslim, Adam , Abraham , Jacob , Moses , some Egyptians , Muhammad . Which of them really was the first?
You can't continue to defend those lies in the Quran , you there4 concluded the best thing is to abuse me and take a leave .

WHY COULDN'T YOU TELL US , THE REASON BEHIND THE BURNING OF THE FIRST BATCH OF QURAN ?

WAS IT BECAUSE OF SATANIC EVIDENCES THEREIN ? LIKE THIS :

Allah SWT says:

وَمَآ أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ مِنْ رَّسُولٍ وَلَا نَبِىٍّ إِلَّآ إِذَا تَمَنّٰىٓ أَلْقَى الشَّيْطٰنُ فِىٓ أُمْنِيَّتِهِۦ فَيَنْسَخُ اللَّهُ مَا يُلْقِى الشَّيْطٰنُ ثُمَّ يُحْكِمُ اللَّهُ ءَايٰتِهِۦ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ
"And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet except that when he spoke [or recited], SATAN threw into it [some misunderstanding]. But Allah abolishes that which SATAN throws in; then Allah makes precise His verses. And Allah is Knowing and Wise."
(QS. Al-Hajj: Verse 52)

لِّيَجْعَلَ مَا يُلْقِى الشَّيْطٰنُ فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمْ مَّرَضٌ وَالْقَاسِيَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ ۗ وَإِنَّ الظّٰلِمِينَ لَفِى شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ
"[That is] so He may make what SATAN throws in a trial for those within whose hearts is disease and those hard of heart. And indeed, the wrongdoers are in extreme dissension."
(QS. Al-Hajj: Verse 53)

MUHAMMAD COULD NOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN GOD'S REVELATIONS AND SATANIC REVELATION.

Do you think it was God Almighty that told him to retain all the pre slamic pagan rituals? No , he himself was a pagan in disguise.

Monotheism does not mean someone is truly worshiping God :
James 2:19-20 KJV
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

BUT MUHAMMAD TAUGHT OTHERWISE :

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 579:
Sahih Bukhari :
Narrated Abu Dharr:

The Prophet said, Gabriel came to me and gave me the glad tidings that anyone who died without worshipping anything besides Allah, would enter Paradise. I asked (Gabriel), 'Even if he committed theft, and even if he committed illegal sexual intercourse?' He said, '(Yes), even if he committed theft, and even if he Committed illegal sexual intercourse."

That is the deceit of the devil to deceive Muslims into thinking, all that heaven requires is worshipping of Allah .

WHAT IS THE USE OF THE STAR AND CRESCENT SIGNS MUSLIMS PUT ON THEIR MOSQUE TOPS?

Truly , I don't need your untruthful response.

true2god:
Con as in how? Hope you didnt get carried away with my asalama lekum! I was making a point you can't refute.

It is bcus you greeted me with the greeting word of PEACE "salaam alaikum", which means "peace be unto you". And i am required by islamic Law to reply walaikum salam which means "and peace be upon you too". How do you have problem with that?

If you show me the shahada in the Qur'an I will become a Muslim now.

Remember this promise of yours. You give your word and you must keep your word.

Can you show me the ayah you have the shahada in the quran? The answer is none. salama lekum!

Let me just keep it simple. Let's see how you react first. This first pillar of Islam is stated clearly in the Quran exactly as it was revealed to the Jews and Christians of previous Scriptures. The Testimony of faith or shahada in the Torah (Old Testament) reads:


"Hear, O' Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is One" Deuteronomy 6:4-5

The same Testimony is confirmed in the New Testament in the words of Jesus (Mark 12:29).



The Shahada authorised by God in the Quran affirms the same truth:

(Allah) God bears witness that there is no god but He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. 3:18


Also in this verse

[Quran 21:25] We did not send any messenger before you (O Muhammed) except with the inspiration : "There is no god except Me;(Allah)


These two verses are enough prove of shahada. You said if i provide prove from Quran you will revert to islam. Here you go. Now in case you wanna question other half of shahada, which testimony that Muhammad is messenger of God, here we have


Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; Quran 48:29



Qurah 4:166:

But Allah bears witness by what He has revealed to you that He has revealed it with His knowledge, and the angels bear witness (also); and Allah is sufficient as a witness.

Only prophet Muhammad has the honor to be affirmed after testimony of faith. You will not hear muslims say Laa ilaha ila Allah Isa(Jesus) is messanger of Allah. Or Laa ilaha ila Allah Musa(Moses) is messenger of Allah. Or Laa ilaha ila Allah Ibrahim(Abraham) is messenger of Allah etc. What you will hear is Laa ilaha ila Allah Muhammad rasulullah (is messenger of Allah}. Only prophet muhammad has this honor.

walaikum salaam

enilove:

How can his physical body be saved , when his spirit and soul are gone? What is the need for that?
What is God going to do with his physical body ?

This means had Allah actually saved him , the verse would have been written NOW WE WILL SAVE YOUR SPIRIT , isn't it

You're truly becoming insane now. Ghosh, i thought you were very intelligent?. You mean to tell me God cannot preserve physical body of human?. You have never been to museums?. You have never witnessed human body exhumed decades after burial and still intact?. Bro, you are very ridiculous. Pharaoh's body was discovered around 1881 through early 1890s thousands of years after he drowned.

His soul is kept with Allah to either enjoy or punished. The body is made as a sign of Allah for the people who live like him.

Empiree:
It is bcus you greeted me with the greeting word of PEACE "salaam alaikum", which means "peace be unto you". And i am required by islamic Law to reply walaikum salam which means "and peace be upon you too". How do you have problem with that?


Remember this promise of yours. You give your word and you must keep your word.



Let me just keep it simple. Let's see how you react first. This first pillar of Islam is stated clearly in the Quran exactly as it was revealed to the Jews and Christians of previous Scriptures. The Testimony of faith or shahada in the Torah (Old Testament) reads:


"Hear, O' Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is One" Deuteronomy 6:4-5

The same Testimony is confirmed in the New Testament in the words of Jesus (Mark 12:29).



The Shahada authorised by God in the Quran affirms the same truth:

(Allah) God bears witness that there is no god but He, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge. 3:18


Also in this verse

[Quran 21:25] We did not send any messenger before you (O Muhammed) except with the inspiration : "There is no god except Me;(Allah)


These two verses are enough prove of shahada. You said if i provide prove from Quran you will revert to islam. Here you go. Now in case you wanna question other half of shahada, which testimony that Muhammad is messenger of God, here we have


Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; Quran 48:29



Qurah 4:166:

But Allah bears witness by what He has revealed to you that He has revealed it with His knowledge, and the angels bear witness (also); and Allah is sufficient as a witness.

Only prophet Muhammad has the honor to be affirmed after testimony of faith. You will not hear muslims say Laa ilaha ila Allah Isa(Jesus) is messanger of Allah. Or Laa ilaha ila Allah Musa(Moses) is messenger of Allah. Or Laa ilaha ila Allah Ibrahim(Abraham) is messenger of Allah etc. What you will hear is Laa ilaha ila Allah Muhammad rasulullah (is messenger of Allah}. Only prophet muhammad has this honor.

walaikum salaam

I just like you Muslims because you will never fail to disappoint. I will quote the ayah you quoted one-by-one to show you how intellectually corrupt you are:

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
(21:25) And We sent not before you any messenger except that We revealed to him that, “There is no deity except Me, so worship Me.”

The above is how sahih international translation puts it so simple. The ayah (though I don't even belief in the nonsense Quran) simply quoted an allahh telling Mohammed that we already send messengers before you with the same message that 'there is no any deity excerpt me (allahh). So what's so difficult for you to understand in this short sentence? How does this relate to the shahada?

The second ayah you quoted (Quran 48:29):

Sahih International : Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.

The above ayah asked Muslims to be wicked to unbelivers but merciful to themselves. I didn't see any shahada there unless you want to tell that anytime I see the words 'Mohammed', 'allahh' and 'messenger' in the same sentence I must accept it as the shahada.

The shahada that every Muslim proclaim is: 'there is no god except allahh and Mohammed is his messenger'. I was expecting you to show me where we can find this exact statement in the Quran as an article of faith but you were wobbling here and there and throwing verses. Just show me the ayah that said I must recite the shahada (or where the shahada is expressly written) and I will become a Muslim.

Asalama lekum!