@The pushers of peaceful christianity: these are  website were you can knock yourself out on the OT and NT murder incorporated, which you are hiding.

Did Jesus cancel the law of killing adulterous act because of the woman? No, because rhere were many instances God of old testament did not kill an adulterous actor; David according to the Bible. Did Jesus cancel the killing of apostates? NO. Jesus said the laws of OT are to be followed, not to be abolished, because he came to practice it, all of it.


Instant Death to Apostates in the Bible's Old and New Testaments.
www.answering-christianity.com/death.htm - Cached - Similar


God and the Death Penalty forgave Old Testament ,
www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML - Cached - Similar


Ten Commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments - Cached - Similar


Murder in the Bible
www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm - Cached - Similar


Do Not Ignore Old Testament
www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm - Cached - Similar


Examples of God personally killing people - RationalWiki
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Examples_of_God_personally_killing_people - Cached


Tithing: Is It New Testament? (Revisited) - Killing God: The , command as to the amount is laid ,
journal.equip.org/articles/tithing-is-it-new-testament-revisited- - Cached


The moral vision of the New Testament: community, cross, new , - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=0567085694,


Reasonable Faith: question_16_Slaughter_of_the_Canaanites
www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id, - Cached - Similar


Curious how god killing in the old testament is justified? - Yahoo ,
answers.yahoo.com › , › Religion & Spirituality - Cached - Similar


Bible contradictions: Why did God command Israelites to battle and , ‎ - May 3, 2008
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nopuqeater:

And to simple say Certainly not Allah, the moon god of the Arabs who had the daughters Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat explains the Biblical Mark 12 verse 29's "Your God and my God is One Lord" is the highest for of begging the question.

^^^You can go on and on about Eloi, but it is quite plain that you are confused about your identity as a muslim. Where in your Koran does your god refer to himself as Eloi.
It is also obvious that you have been kept in the darkness of delusion, else you would know that your prophet claimed that Allah had 3 daughters: Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. Of course he later turned round and claimed that Satan had put the words in his mouth. Since this thread is about the veracity of his prophethood, it is quite clear that he has failed that test, as no authentic or true prophet of God would ever make that mistake.
Even your Islamic sources testify to this fact:

Tabari VI:108/Ishaq:165, 166
"The Messenger saw his tribe turn on him. He was pained to see them shunning the message he had brought from Allah. So he longed for something that would reconcile his tribe to him. With his love for his tribe and his anxiety over this it would have delighted him if the obstacle which had made his task so difficult could be removed. So Muhammad debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed: 'By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of his own desire. And when he came to the words: 'Have you thought about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat.' Satan, when he was meditating upon it and desiring to bring reconciliation, cast on his tongue, because of his inner longings and what he desired, the words: 'These are exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses). Verily their intercession is accepted with approval."
"When the Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him. While the Muslims, trusting their Prophet in respect to the messages which he brought, did not suspect him of a vain desire or slip. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, obeying his command and following his example."

As this incident shows, not only did your prophet utter those words but in the presence of others he prostrated himself and made obeisance to the three goddesses. This is one of the dirty secrets that Islam keeps hidden from the view of most of its adherents.

aletia Your ignorant post is quite easy to refute
1. Tabari said on the onset of his book "Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us." Hence Tabari is not the originator of this claims he was merely quoting someone else.
2. Let us examine the verse in its entirety and see whether the claims are rational


Have ye seen Lat and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? [These are the high-flying ones, whose intercession is to be hoped for!] What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! hese are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord! [Qur'an 53:19-23]

The same verse prasing this dieties is also refuting them, Imagine praising some one and then insulting the person at the same time, this simply puts to rest any claim that satan was able to put his words in the recitation of Muhammad cause how would he disrespect their gods by reffering to them as mere conjectors it does not make sense.

Get it clear-Anyone who is an Ambassador of Nigeria can not do anything contrary to the principles of Nigerian president, except he has stopped representing him. Unlike Muhammad and the Quran that lived and promoted violence, hatred, lewdness, murder, robbery, Jesus spoke against all vices and warned his disciples never to indulge in any of them. He never killed anyone, and all His disciples that followed his teaching never fought back even when they were persecuted and killed. that was why they were called Christians-Christ followers or imitators. Anyone that is violent or a murderer is d/4 not a Christian in the real meaning of the word. That is why I don't agree with Islam trying to impose themselves on Christ that he was one of their prophets. Read the account of Jesus

1)When they did not receive Him in a particular Village his disciples suggested they bring down fire to destroy the unbelievers but Jesus opposed it. The Bible says "He sent messengers ahead of him, but the people there would not receive him, When the disciples James and John saw this, they said, 'Lord, do you want us to call fire down from Heaven to destroy them?' Jesus turned and rebuked them. then Jesus and his disciples went on to another village" Luke 9:52-56 GNB
2) When Peter attempted to use violence on someone that came to arrest Jesus, he rebuked him. The Bible reports the incidence, "Then they came up and arrested Jesus, and held him tight. One of those who was with Jesus drew his sword and struck at the High Priest's slave, cutting off his ear. "put your sword back in its place" Jesus said to him. "All who take the sword will die by the sword, " Matthew 26:50-53 GNB
3) Jesus always weeps when he sees people suffering(John 11:35); Compassion is His middle name (Matthew 9:36; 14:14; 15:32; 20:34).
4) When Shari'a would have stoned a woman to death Jesus would give her a second chance to change(John 8:1-11),
5) Unlike Muhammad who would kill a sinner, Jesus would rather die for sinners than kill another person. That was the reason He came to lay down his life for sinners

CONTRAST
Contrast that with the command of Muhammad in the Koran which he went ahead to exemplify
Quran 9.29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day , "
Islam contains a large amount of intense venemous hatred for non-muslims. Quran and Hadith are filled with this hatred, which has always been easily transformed into physical violence since the creation of Islam. Mohammed himself was a terrorist in his time, when he ordered to kill those who left Islam. He took part in many battles against people just for the reason they did not accept Islam.

Well, you all asked for it.

The Problem with Islam is that it has a megalomaniac Agenda for World Domination. And it says that the Muslims are the Superior Race. It needs more and more Living Space required for it's growing high birth rate population and has a pathological hatred for Jews.

Does this sound familiar to you, in any way?

Perhaps your knowledge of German history isn't too strong, so, let me clue you in. Adolf Hitler wrote a book called Mein Kampf - My Struggle. In this he described the problems he faced and equated it with that of the Germans. Now, lets look at Abu'l Quasim Mohammad bin Abd'allah bin Aliyy al Muttailib al Hashim al Quraish.

Most of the Qu'ran [the Recitation] speaks of his problems and equates his struggle with that of the Arabs.

Adolf Hitler preached that the Germans were der Übermensch, the Super Man. The Qu'ran preaches that one Muslim is equal to ten kaffirs. See any similarity?

Adolf Hitler asked for Lebensraum, Living Space for the Germans. Muslims are taking up more and more Living Space for their growing numbers, due to their high birth rates; all over the World. Mohammad and his Companions attacked and slaughtered all the Jews, Christians and pagans in all the neighboring Countries and pressed East till the Hindus stopped them. For Living Space for their Muslims. See any similarity?

Adolf Hitler wanted the Nazi Party and the Übermensch to continue till they Dominated over the World. Islam is bound by it's creed to fulfill Mohammad's Agenda and have Islam Dominate the World and reduce all others to either dead or dhimmi.

Do you see the similarities now?

Well, all the World got together to put an end to this madness back then.

What makes you think we won't do that, again, now?

Ultimately, whether you like it or not, it's Lebensraum - Living Space. You threaten our Living Space as much as Nazis did. And, don't think that the World has forgotten that the Grand Mufti was on the Nazi Side and that the Waffen SS were all Muslims. We remember that the Arabs supported the Nazis and fought for Field Marshall Rommel, the Desert Fox.

You Muslims still want to exterminate the Jews. Do you think we don't know that? And after that, you want to exterminate all the idolaters. Now, today, all the Christians who wear a Cross and have one in their Church know that you also mean them, when you speak about idolaters. Do you think that the Hindus who have continuously defeated the Muslims so many times will let you win, this time? Do you think that the Jews who defeated 21 Muslim Countries that attacked it in a humiliating 7Day War will not do it again? And, this time, they have all our support. Touch them and we'll all come down on you.

The problem of Islam is that the Muslims are growing at an alarming rate in all the non-Islamic Countries where they came as refugees due to their high birth rates. Where they are taking more and more of our Living Space and asking for more and more privileges which they don't earn. Lebensraum, remember?

High Birth Rates that mean big families, ill educated low paid fathers who can't afford to educate their children, which means ill educated children who grow up and do low tech ill paid jobs, which means frustrated youth who form gangs and take to Crime. And, add to this tinder box your Imams who come and preach Hatred and give them the dream of their Dominating over all these richer Native people. What do you get?

Drain on our taxes in the long queues of Muslims for the doles. Muslims in low paid jobs with bad education and growing numbers making slums wherever they go. Muslims contributing to growing Crime Rates. Rape, violent incidents.

Then come your Hamas and al Queda and Taliban and they perpetrate acts of terrorism.

So, what would you do, if you were in our place, now?

That's why we are actively profiling all of you in our Countries, now. That's why we are arresting, revoking citizenship and deporting your kind in our Countries, now. That's why more and more of us are giving our votes to the anti-Islamic Political Parties. That's why Politicians who were "appeasing" Muslims till recently are now taking hard line stances, because they know the Native feelings and don't want to lose their Power and, anyway, the Muslims mean nothing to them. That's why there are calls for the ban of the burkha, the ban of the Qu'ran and this will escalate to the ban of the mosques and madrases and, finally, Islam. That's why you'll find the deportations become mass deportations and the Islamic Countries will be flooded with deportees, because all non-Islamic Countries won't take them back. That's why the economy of the Islamic Countries will go broke and then the Terrorists will stupidly try some other stunt to scare us, and ,

Finally, problem solved.

there is nothing bad to seek the knowledge with faithful heart. i have studied the koran and see that mohammad brainwashed his people to achieve his goal. read the book and all the hadiths and see what am talking , all are full of fallacy, fables, propagandas, lies glaring fiction and supestitions, can somebody ask the muslims brother the main reason muslims are not eating pig and dog even rear dog at home and why their ladies use to cover their head ask them you see that the religion believes is not even different from our traditional doctrines that believe so much in superstitions okay






Qur'an 55:46 "For him who lives in TEERROR of his Lord are two Gardens containing delights: shade, two fountains flowing, fruits in pairs. Reclining on carpets lined with silk brocade, fruits hanging low. In them virginal females with averted glances (desiring none but you), undeflowered by men or jinn. Is the reward of goodness aught but goodness?" can you see that TERROR

^^^ I think what a lot of muslims and christians get wrong about the quran is that when it says stuff like the above or says something such as " two fountains flowing, fruits and pairs" and so on, it is a simple way of saying the you will live a good life on earth or the hereafter if u do certain deeds. Its there no literal gardens with fountains beneath with silk brocades or whatever. If you read threw the quran you will be descriptions like that alot and begin to understand its meaning especially when its used in different circumstances.

@ajoguegbe
U certainly don't understand how to read scriptures,from the beginning of this thread u have been quoting verses OUT OF CONTEXT.Which makes debating the issue with u pointless.But as a friend its my duty to try and make u understand.READ BELOW TO UNDERSTAND THE VERSE IN ITS CONTEXT.ITS SIMPLE AND CLEAR.
The above fatwa refers to the historical context in which the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) fought against other nations. The Prophet Muhammad did not initiate agression against anyone, rather he and his followers were under attack from all who sought to crush the new Islamic state.
As for fighting the Jews (People of the Scripture), they had conducted a peace pact with the Messenger after he migrated to Madinah. Soon afterwards, they betrayed the peace pact and joined forces with the pagans and the hypocrites against Muslims. They also fought against Muslims during the Battle of A`hzab , then Allah revealed…[and he cites verse 9:29] (Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 80)

In light of the historical context of this verse, it becomes very clear that the verse was revealed in connection with agression initiated against Muslims. As Dr. Jamal Badawi very accurately concludes with regard to verse 9:29 and similar verses:

All of these verses, without exception, if studied carefully, address aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), whether by idolatrous Arabs, some of the Jewish tribes in Madinah, or by some Christians. (SOURCE)

Therefore, the command to fight in verse 9:29 relates to those non-muslims who commit agression and not those who are committed to live in peace. The verse is subject to certain conditions that were apparent when it was implemented in the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, as Shaykh Sayyid Sabiq writes:

What we have stated makes it clear that Islam did not allow the initiating of hostilities, except to: 1. repel aggression; 2. protect Islamic propagation; 3. deter Fitnah and oppression and ensure freedom of religion. In such cases, fighting becomes a necessity of the religion and one of its sacred ordainments. It is then called, ‘Jihad’. (Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 81)

@ajoguegbe
U certainly don't understand how to read scriptures,from the beginning of this thread u have been quoting verses OUT OF CONTEXT.Which makes debating the issue with u pointless.But as a friend its my duty to try and make u understand.READ BELOW TO UNDERSTAND THE VERSE IN ITS CONTEXT.ITS SIMPLE AND CLEAR.
      The above fatwa refers to the historical context in which the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) fought against other nations. The Prophet Muhammad did not initiate agression against anyone, rather he and his followers were under attack from all who sought to crush the new Islamic state.
      As for fighting the Jews (People of the Scripture), they had conducted a peace pact with the Messenger after he migrated to Madinah. Soon afterwards, they betrayed the peace pact and joined forces with the pagans and the hypocrites against Muslims. They also fought against Muslims during the Battle of A`hzab , then Allah revealed…[and he cites verse 9:29] (Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 80)

In light of the historical context of this verse, it becomes very clear that the verse was revealed in connection with agression initiated against Muslims. As Dr. Jamal Badawi very accurately concludes with regard to verse 9:29 and similar verses:

All of these verses, without exception, if studied carefully, address aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), whether by idolatrous Arabs, some of the Jewish tribes in Madinah, or by some Christians. (SOURCE)

Therefore, the command to fight in verse 9:29 relates to those non-muslims who commit agression and not those who are committed to live in peace. The verse is subject to certain conditions that were apparent when it was implemented in the time of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, as Shaykh Sayyid Sabiq writes:

What we have stated makes it clear that Islam did not allow the initiating of hostilities, except to: 1. repel aggression; 2. protect Islamic propagation; 3. deter Fitnah and oppression and ensure freedom of religion. In such cases, fighting becomes a necessity of the religion and one of its sacred ordainments. It is then called, ‘Jihad’. (Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 81)

PLS CAN ajoguegbe RESPOND TO THESE VERSES BELOW

THE STATUS OF WOMAN IN THE BIBLE

Christ is the head of every man,
and the man is the head of a woman,
and God is the head of Christ. , 1 Corin. 11:3

For the husband is the head of the wife,
as Christ also is the head of the church. , Ephes. 5:23

For indeed man was not created for the woman's sake,
but woman for the man's sake. , 1 Corin. 11:9

In pain you shall bring forth children;
Yet your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you. , Genesis 3:16

Let a woman quietly receive instructions
with entire submissiveness.
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise
authority over a man, but to remain quiet. , 1 Tim. 2:11-12

Let the women keep silent in the churches,
for they are not permitted to speak,
but let them subject themselves,
just as the Law also says.
And if they desire to learn anything,
let them ask their own husbands at home,
for it is improper for a woman
to speak in church. , 1 Corin. 14:34-35

Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman
commits adultery against her;
and if she herself divorces her husband and marries
another man, she is committing adultery , Mark 10:11-12

The mighty men of Babylon have ceased fighting;
they stay in the strongholds;
their strength is exhausted,
they are becoming like women , Jer. 51:30

But every woman who has her head uncovered
while praying, disgraces her head. , 1 Corin. 11:5

For a man ought not to have his head covered,
since he is the image and glory of God;
but the woman is the glory of man. , 1 Corin. 11:7

It is better to live in a corner of a roof, than
in a house shared with a contentious woman. , Prov. 21:9

A woman shall not wear man's clothing,
nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing. , Deut. 22:5


HOLY WARS & EDICTS OF WARFARE

When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer
it terms of peace. And it shall come about, if it agrees to
make peace with you and opens to you, then it shall be that
all the people who are found in it shall become your forced
labour and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace
with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege
it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall
strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the
women and the children and the animals and all that is in the
city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and
you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the Lord your
God has given you. , Deut. 20:10-14

When you go out to battle against your enemies, and the Lord
your God delivers them into your hands, and you take them away captive, and see among the captives a beautiful woman, and have a desire for her and would take her as a wife for yourself, then you shall bring her home to your house, and she
shall shave her head and trim her nails. , Deut. 21:10-12

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill
every woman who has known man intimately, but all the girls
who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.
, Numbers 31:17-18

And when the Lord your God shall deliver them before you, and you shall defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them.
You shall make no covenant with them and show no favour to them. , Deut. 7:2

And all the spoil of these cities and the cattle, the sons of
Israel took as their plunder; but they struck every man with
the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them. They
left no one who breathed. Joshua 11:14

If your brother, your mother's son, or your son or daughter,
or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own
soul, entice you secretly, saying, `Let us go and serve other
gods' , you shall not yield to him or listen to him; and your
eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him.
But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first
against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of
all the people. Deut. 13:6-9

If you hear in one of your cities which the Lord your God is
giving you to live in anyone saying that, 'Let us go and
serve other gods' then you shall investigate, and if it is
true, you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city
with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it and all that
is in it and its cattle with the edge of the sword.
Deut. 13:12-15

Now go and strike Amalek, and utterly destroy all that he has,
and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman,
child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. 1 Sam. 5:3


(KJV) Ps 58:9 Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall
take them away as with a whirlwind, both
living, and in {his} wrath.

(KJV) Ps 58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the
vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood
of the wicked.

(KJV) Ps 68:23 That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of
{thine} enemies, {and} the tongue of thy dogs
in the same.


OBSCENE, LASCIVIOUS & REPUGNANT TEXTS

, In your midst (the rulers of Israel) have committed acts of
lewdness. `In you they have uncovered their father's
unclothedness(*); in you they have humbled her who was unclean in her menstrual impurity. And one has committed abomination with his neighbour's wife(**), and another in you humbled his sister(***), his father's daughter'. Ezekiel 22:9/11

Note: For detailed narrations of the above recorded acts see
(*) Gen. 9:22; (**) 2 Sam. 11:2/5ff and 12:10/12;
(***) 2 Sam. 13:10/17.

And Ahithophel said to Absalom, "Go in to your father's
concubines, whom he has left to keep the house; then all
Israel will hear that you have made yourself odious to your
father (King David)." So they pitched a tent for Absalom on
the roof, and Absalom went in to his father's concubines in
the sight of all Israel. , 2 Sam. 16:21/22

But the men would not listen to him, so the man seized his
concubine and brought her out to them. And they raped her and abused her all night until morning, then let her go at the
approach of dawn. , Judges 19:25

Note: In the morning, the concubine was found dead by her
master at the doorway of his house.

, He (the master) took a knife and laid hold of his concubine
and cut her in twelve pieces, limb by limb, and sent her
throughout the territory of Israel. , Judges 19:29

And it came about while Israel was dwelling in that land, that
Ruben went and lay with Bilhah his father's concubine; and
Israel heard of it. , Gen. 35:22

And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, the prince of the land, saw her (Jacob's daughter), he took her and lay with
her by force. , Gen. 34:2

Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and
perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up
offspring for your brother." And Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so it came about that when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground, in order not to give offspring to his brother. , Gen. 38:8/9

When Judah saw her (Tamar), he thought she was a harlot, for she had covered her face. So he turned aside to her by the
road, and said, "Here now, let me come in to you"; for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law. And she (who knew her father-in-law) said, "What will you give me, that you may come in to me?" He said, therefore, "I will send you a kid from the flock." , So he gave to her, and went in to her, and she conceived by him."

Note: Out of this relationship were born twins, Perez and
Zerah. From Perez a direct genealogical line continued
to David, Solomon and finally to Joseph - the husband of
Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ. (See Matthew Ch.1).

"Come, let us make our father (Lot) drink wine, and let us lie
with him, that we may preserve our family through our father."
So they made their father drink wine that night, and the
first-born went in and lay with her father; and he did not
know when she lay down or when she arose. And it came about on the morrow, that the first-born said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father; let us make him drink wine tonight also; then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve our family through our father." So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger arose and lay with him; and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose. Thus both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father. Gen. 19:32/36

Please read Ezekiel chapter 23 and discover the obscene and
indecent language in which God(!) compares the idolatries of
Jerusalem and Samaria with the unabashed and shameless acts of
harlotries. In this chapter, the language spoken used by God(!),
the quoted passages, are so graphic that they are unfit for reading
by the youngsters. Here is an example;
"And she lusted after their paramours, whose flesh is like the flesh of donkeys and whose issue is like the issue of horses." , Ez. 23:20.

@pimpu

wouldn't waste time and the words of yours therein with this christians they knows/knew the trust but intentionally they were debiated from it, that they were copied the same as what jews did to jesus.

Varying attempts to stamp out infidels and heretics often proved to be inadequate, so the Holy Inquisition was formed to make the efforts more organized and efficient (not to mention putting them all under more official church oversight). Pope Gregory IX established the Inquisition in 1231, and burning was quickly decided upon as the official punishment. Administrators and Inquisitors were all answerable directly to the Pope - which essentially made him directly responsible for their actions. In 1245, the Pope gave Inquisitors the right to absolve their assistants of any acts of violence which they might commit in the fulfillment of their duties.

Following church traditions, Inquisitor Franciso Pena declared in 1578 that:

We must remember that the main purpose of the trial and execution is not to save the soul of the accused but to achieve the public good and put fear into others.

Torture of suspects was authorized by Pope Innocent IV in 1252, and thus inquisition chambers were turned into places of abject horror. I don't know what he was thinking when he signed the proclamation, but I am starting to suspect that "Innocent" was an inappropriate name for many of these church leaders to be choosing. Torture was not finally removed as a legal option for church officials until 1917 when the Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect.

I'd be a fool to respond to certain things some of you posted especially Pimpu (my friend) because even a neutral reader knows they don't make sense in the light of the discussion at hand. But let me respond to the ones I believe may have been confusing you:

What we have stated makes it clear that Islam did not allow the initiating of hostilities, except to: 1. repel aggression; 2. protect Islamic propagation; 3. deter Fitnah and oppression and ensure freedom of religion. In such cases, fighting becomes a necessity of the religion and one of its sacred ordainments. It is then called, ‘Jihad’.

We are all saying the same thing. I drew the contrast between Jesus and Muhammad, that in some conditions Muhammad advocates war. So Jesus who was completely against war as a means to spread the Faith wouldn't have been one of your prophets. Jesus and his Apostles never fought anyone. All you quoted about wars from the bible are Old Testament. Jesus brought a new order that is perfect. Muhammad decides to follow the Old and still calling Jesus a predecessor.
I also don't understand all you quoted from the Bible about women. The Bible is not against the fact that the man is above the woman? That is the divine order, but it didn't say the woman is a slave or should be enslaved by the man which is what Islam is doing. Forcing women to cover their face,not come to Mosque, who to marry, not go to school etc is slavery. Muhammad pounced on women like spoils of war,they were just properties like chairs, horse etc. In the Bible, who played so many major roles especially in the ministry of Jesus
Next time, Organise your thought better before presenting it

But I advice you stop dodging the truth by covering the whole place. Jesus can set you free. He died for you to be FREE. If you need to learn more about Jesus and the Bible
Difference btw the Old and New Testament
-Why Jesus had to die
-The place of Original sin and
-What the Bible prophecies about the coming of Islam
I can offer you assistance.
Pimpu, you know you are my frnd and weve been chatting online. we can discuss it over like many others that have written me

@Aletheia: « #65 on: Yesterday at 03:20:42 AM »

Quote from: nopuqeater on July 19, 2010, 11:03 PM
And to simple say Certainly not Allah, the moon god of the Arabs who had the daughters Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat explains the Biblical Mark 12 verse 29's "Your God and my God is One Lord" is the highest for of begging the question.
^^^Y[b]ou can go on and on about Eloi[/b], but it is quite plain that you are confused about your identity as a muslim. Where in your Koran does your god refer to himself as Eloi.
It is also obvious that you have been kept in the darkness of delusion, else you would know that your prophet claimed that Allah had 3 daughters: Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. Of course he later turned round and claimed that Satan had put the words in his mouth. Since this thread is about the veracity of his prophethood, it is quite clear that he has failed that test, as no authentic or true prophet of God would ever make that mistake.
Even your Islamic sources testify to this fact:

While my comment about Eloi burns you up, I am doing it in the cross hung Jesus. He didnt cry about Jehovah. Or Yahweh. But Eloi, Who he said forsook him. A woman from America says her name is Halley Berry. Another from Russia says her name is Alei Berri. Pronounce both and tell me the difference[s] to your hearing. Hopefully your mind can wrap around such an elementary exercise.

Quote
Tabari VI:108/Ishaq:165, 166
"The Messenger saw his tribe turn on him. He was pained to see them shunning the message he had brought from Allah. So he longed for something that would reconcile his tribe to him. With his love for his tribe and his anxiety over this it would have delighted him if the obstacle which had made his task so difficult could be removed. So Muhammad debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed: 'By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of his own desire. And when he came to the words: 'Have you thought about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat.' Satan, when he was meditating upon it and desiring to bring reconciliation, cast on his tongue, because of his inner longings and what he desired, the words: 'These are exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses). Verily their intercession is accepted with approval."
"When the Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him. While the Muslims, trusting their Prophet in respect to the messages which he brought, did not suspect him of a vain desire or slip. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, obeying his command and following his example."
As this incident shows, not only did your prophet utter those words but in the presence of others he prostrated himself and made obeisance to the three goddesses. This is one of the dirty secrets that Islam keeps hidden from the view of most of its adherents.

First, aletheia, if Allah had protected him from Satan for that long, and this God of his, does not sleep, slumber, wary, and no one is capable of overcoming Him (unlike one of your gods that you said was hung; you must be sad for the lost of a god among the gods you have), how can satan, a mere creation is capable of changing the words revealed, while the revelation is going on from Allah the Almighty to Malaika Jibril to Muhammad, without a break in the chain? If you have any brain, dont you know that shaitan would have been destroyed if he were to even thought of such an impossible? Who do you think controls, everything, sees everying and does not need a partner to rule His creation, except the Almighty Himself? Whats so interesting that many people miss is this; Muhammad (AS) was the elect of God. God says I will guard the Book; the Quran. Allah says to Muhammad "dont haste in the recitation, listen, your heart will take it, you will remember it". If Muhammad (AS) was able to tell his community the verses of Surah Abasa, and others that were so sensitive (and you will find them on the pages of the Quran, today), why dont we have "famous crane (birds that are too big for sure to fly in the desert of Makka; must be unknown, which confirms that this incident did not happen) in the Quran, even if it became abrogated, for every abrogated verse is in the Quran?

Just that we make it known, from the moment that Muhammad declared his mission to his people, until the conquest of Makka, almost 2 decades after, the muslims never had a peaceful period. The reason there were many migration to Ethiopia before the big migration to Madina. Finally, when Muhammad aid he went on a night journey to heavens, some people left Islam. If Muhammad had said that the idols are now intercession capable, why didnt the Makkans swell up theranks of Islam? Why none of them became muslim? There are many obvious arguments we can use to support the impossibility of that cooked up verse. His uncle Abi Lahab would have became Muslim. So would Abu Sham, who was nicknamed Abu Jahal. So would it have been easy for Abi Talib bin Abi Mutalib, his favorite uncle to have become muslim. But none of them did, because they say Muhammad's "Islam" killed of their idols. I dont think Aletheia thinks. Yet he had passed himself up as a person who can think outside the box. This was the box, and you lock yourself in.

nopuqeater:

@Aletheia: « #65 on: Yesterday at 03:20:42 AM »While my comment about Eloi burns you up, I am doing it in the cross hung Jesus. He didnt cry about Jehovah. Or Yahweh. But Eloi, Who he said forsook him. A woman from America says her name is Halley Berry. Another from Russia says her name is Alei Berri. Pronounce both and tell me the difference[s] to your hearing. Hopefully your mind can wrap around such an elementary exercise.

So many words. . .not much coherence. Let me ask you again. Where in your koran does your god refer to himself as Eloi?
You are confused about your identity as a Muslim if you think that Eloi remotely sounds like the name of your god.

You are confused about your identity as a Muslim if you think that Eloi remotely sounds like the name of your god.
Actually u are the one that is confused about the Name of ALLah that is why we have tried in vain to educate you yet you cling onto your own delusions that is why there is no need to bother most times people like you do not know and don't want to know period. And Aju I have given you instances of the prince of peace chanting the slogans of war let me state it again

"Think not that I am come to send peace bn earth; I came not to send peace, but a, sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man's foes they shall be of his own household." [Matthew x. 34-36.

Then said he unto them. But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one (Luke 22:36).
AJU EVEN BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS IT MUST BE HEARTLESS TO WANT TO PUT A MAN AGAINST FATHER, DAUGHTER AGAINST MOTHER AND ETC.

^^^

aletheia:

So many words. . .not much coherence. Let me ask you again. Where in your koran does your god refer to himself as Eloi?
You are confused about your identity as a Muslim if you think that Eloi remotely sounds like the name of your god.

Moon god worshiping idolater. It is sad and ironic that you presume to tell me about Jesus of Nazareth, who is alive today whereas your false prophet is long dead. You need to take time off to learn about the history and origin of your religion and not swallow hook, line and sinker what was beaten into you while you were a child. If indeed as you say your god is powerful enough to have kept your prophet from the influence of Satan, why then did the Satan slip in those words. Seems your god isn't as powerful as believed. And if Satan was able to insert those words, then there exists the possibility that the whole of the koran is but a revelation of Satan. Off course that is the implication that your mind shies away from.

Sura an-Najm (Star) 53:19-22
Now tell me about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,
The third one, another goddess.
What! For you the males and for him the females!
That indeed is an unfair division.

1. Why does the koran mention these three goddesses by name?
2. Is it not because they were all worshiped as Allah's daughters?
3. Does the koran mention any other gods by name?
4. So why single out this ones for special mention?
5. Why were the Quraysh overjoyed at the mention of their gods if it wasn't in a flattering way?
^^^
Tabari VI:108/Ishaq:165, 166
"The Messenger saw his tribe turn on him. He was pained to see them shunning the message he had brought from Allah. So he longed for something that would reconcile his tribe to him. With his love for his tribe and his anxiety over this it would have delighted him if the obstacle which had made his task so difficult could be removed. So Muhammad debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then Allah revealed: 'By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of his own desire. And when he came to the words: 'Have you thought about Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat.' Satan, when he was meditating upon it and desiring to bring reconciliation, cast on his tongue, because of his inner longings and what he desired, the words: 'These are exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses). Verily their intercession is accepted with approval."
"When the Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him. While the Muslims, trusting their Prophet in respect to the messages which he brought, did not suspect him of a vain desire or slip. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, obeying his command and following his example."

Tabari VI:108/Ishaq:166 "Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. Then they all dispersed from the mosque."

As this incident shows, not only did your prophet utter those words but in the presence of others he prostrated himself and made obeisance to the three goddesses. This is one of the dirty secrets that Islam keeps hidden from the view of most of its adherents.

And even your koran confirms that Satan inserted his own revelation:

Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof.

---

The reason why these three goddesses are mentioned is plain:
Allah and the Ka'aba predated Muhammad, being one of the over 300 gods worshiped in the Ka'aba. Muhammad and his fellow Meccans worshiped rocks. Lacking craftsmanship, artistry, and tools, they were unable to make the elegant statuary synonymous with other religious idols. The most interesting stones became gods. Most had personal names. The biggest rock, thereby the biggest god of the Ka'aba, was Allah. His oval stone was a dark reddish-brown. But Allah was a fractured deity. With time and abuse he had been splintered into seven chips, all banded together. Compared to the devotion his fragments enjoy, the pieces are rather small; combined they are only eleven by fifteen inches. Today, the chips are imbedded in the southeastern corner of the Ka'aba, four feet above the ground.
Stone cults were neither uncommon nor uncivilized. Even the Greeks were wont to worship stones. Apollo was once believed to be a meteorite in Delphi.But the Black Stone and its House were hardly unique. There were many such temples, called tawaghits, scattered across Arabia. Patrons made sacrifices and left gifts to their stone of choice, prostrated themselves in prayer, and circumambulated the shrines. Most commanded hajj and umrah pilgrimages during holy months. Those seeking the rock's blessing would commonly rub themselves against the stone and kiss it reverently.

Ishaq:38 "Now along with the Ka'aba, the Arabs had adopted Tawaghits, temples they venerated like the Ka'aba. They, too, had their custodians. They used to circumambulate them."

Allah was one of many pagan rock idols, the Ka'aba was one of many pagan rock shrines. Islamic circumambulation was one of many pagan rites.

Ishaq:38 "Al-Lat was in a Tawaghit Temple in Fa'if which was venerated like the Ka'aba."
Ishaq:38 "Luhayy put Al-Uzza in a Nakhla Tawaghit. When they had finished their Ka'aba Hajj they circumambulated Al-Uzza. The Quraysh worshiped her. Manat was worshiped by the Aus and Khazraj in Yathrib."
Those who prayed to Al-Uzza and Manat, Ishaq:39 "shaved their heads and completed all of the rites associated with the Hajj."

Yet these men were pagans. How did their rituals become part of Islam and why? The history of Islam is the story of the elevation of one pagan god above other pagan gods worshiped by Arabs in Muhammad's time - similar to Akhenaten's attempt to abandon traditional Egyptian polytheism and introduce worship centered on the Aten. The differences are that while Aten is the sun god, Allah is the moon god and where Akhenaten failed, Muhammad succeeded.

ages? You're telling me to read books? I laugh in your ignorant, uneducated face. I am more educated than you can ever dream to be. Intellectually, I tower over your pathetic, blind ignorance. You read only one book, but even then you need a man to decipher it for you. You can't even put your own definitions to it. .

You think religion isn't a product of politicians? What a cretin you are. They've defined it through the generations. Or am I imagining all of these different sects? Do I imagine the daily changes in doctrines? Your stupidity is breath-taking.

Keep worshipping Shaitan, my friend. That's what you're doing when you try to worship Allah through fear.
Just as christain worshipped three gods to me you no more dafter than your writtings, cause only amorron will claim that muslim worshipped three gods (when we are not christians) the pagan arabs offered the Prophet money and power in order to reject monothiesm and accept polttheism yet he refused. More also I have stated right from time the meaning of Allah you and your lieing crew of missionaries - this has become their winning card whenevr they argue - to desist from lies God does not need lies to guide people or the devil tells lies to decieve people to accept his advise - remember the devil is a liar how about you.

Moon god worshiping idolater. It is sad and ironic that you presume to tell me about Jesus of Nazareth, who is alive today whereas your false prophet is long dead. You need to take time off to learn about the history and origin of your religion and not swallow hook, line and sinker what was beaten into you while you were a child. If indeed as you say your god is powerful enough to have kept your prophet from the influence of Satan, why then did the Satan slip in those words. Seems your god isn't as powerful as believed. And if Satan was able to insert those words, then there exists the possibility that the whole of the koran is but a revelation of Satan. Off course that is the implication that your mind shies away from.

Again this you lies has already been refuted as the Tabari cearly in his books says he this are not his words but words he collected from people. Now if you xcannot contend with the argument take a hike it nobody fault you are dumb
let me quote what Tabari says onhis book since you brain is quite loose
1. Tabari said on the onset of his book "Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us." Hence Tabari is not the originator of this claims he was merely quoting someone else.
2. Let us examine the verse in its entirety and see whether the claims are rational

Now let us ask him which religionresembles idolatry
THE XTIAN ALTAR IS SET UP NEARLY IDENTICAL WITH A RITUAL ALTER FOR WITCHCRAFT:

The usual xtian mass/service makes use of the following:

* The Bell
* The Incense burner/Thurible
* The Candles
* The Host
* The Book
* The Chalice filled with wine
* Oil

Yet, in spite of this, the xtian church murdered enmasse, those accused of being witches, sorcerers and those of Pagan religions.
The Rosary was stolen from Tibetan Mala Beads, used for meditation. The repetition of the "Hail Marys" and the "our fathers" are stolen from the East Asian Mantras. A Mantra is a word repeated over and over to focus the mind in meditation. "Ohm" is the most common. The robotic repetitious prayers recited over and over again in Christian Churches are also corrupted imitations of mantras.
#
he church steeple is a copy of the Egyptian Obelisk, the only difference is the crucifix on top. We are all familiar with the Egyptian obelisk, such as "Cleopatra's Needle." This has a lot in common with the "Maypole." The "Maypole" was the symbol for the May King's phallus (erect manliness). This is a symbol of fertility. On the eve of Beltane (April 30th), celebrants danced around the maypole. The original Egyptian obelisks were symbols of the phallus. They represented the erect organ of the earth God "Geb" as he lay on the ground trying to reach up to unite himself with the Goddess "Neith/Nut" of the overarching sky. Unbeknownst to most xians, their church steeple is a symbolic erect manliness with a cross on top.
# "Amen" when said at the end of Christian prayers was STOLEN as well. "Amen" was stolen from the Egyptian "Amon." "Amon RA."

# The HALO was stolen from Hindu Gods and the Buddha. Both religions predated christianity by centuries

^^^*yawn*
Recycled and unoriginal arguments. Like most Muslim apologists on this forum. . .you display your crass ignorance. Assignment for you: Research the difference between Roman Catholicism and Biblical Christianity
Oh I forgot that since your religion is so tied in with the State; to wit a State Religion, you look around and latch on to the most popular heresy of "Christianity as a State Religion" and believe that this represents true disciples of Jesus of Nazareth. The irony of your situation is that you have been kept in the dark about the true origins of your Islam and Roman Catholicism.

Since you could not answer my questions, you descend to insults, which I see is very easy for you to do, since you are incapable of rational discourse. Again here is the list of questions you failed to answer (try to make answer them, since you are convinced of the superiority of your religion and want to make me a Muslim like you):
1. Why does the koran mention these three goddesses by name?
2. Is it not because they were all worshiped as Allah's daughters?
3. Does the koran mention any other gods by name?
4. So why single out this ones for special mention?
5. Why were the Quraysh overjoyed at the mention of their gods if it wasn't in a flattering way?

vedaxcool:

1. Tabari said on the onset of his book "Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us." Hence Tabari is not the originator of this claims he was merely quoting someone else.
2. Let us examine the verse in its entirety and see whether the claims are rational

Hypocrite. You claim to follow the sunnah of your prophet which are recorded in your hadiths, yet are these hadiths not oral traditions transmitted through the imperfect memories of men. You discount Tabari's account because it shows up your prophet. It was because of unreasoning fanatics like you that he put this in his introduction:

vedaxcool:

Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us.

But since you are a master of cut-and-paste without critically examining your material; that just slipped by you, didn't it? The quandary for you is that you claim that the hadiths lay forth the sunnah of your prophet, yet Sīrat Rasūl Allāh by Muhammed Ibn Ishaq (85 A.H. – 151 A.H.) and Tarikh al-Tabari by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari d. 310H (838-923) show him to have been an idolater and deceived by Satan into uttering those words.
By the rules of unbiased historical investigation, the closer an account is to the events it seeks to portray, the less distorted it is by the prisms of time and failing human memory. Since Muhammed Ibn Ishaq was well within the lifetime of your prophet's companions, I am inclined to believe him rather than the white-washed tales that originated much later.
So if your hadiths are untrustworthy in one point, how sure are you that they truly portray other events that you accept as true.

---

The Sirat Rasul Allah was written by Ibn Ishaq in 750 A.D. It was edited and abridged by Ibn Hisham in 830.Referred to as the Sira,or Biography, Ishaq’s Hadith Collection is comprised of oral reports from Muhammad and his companions. It provides the only written account of Muhammad’s life and the formation of Islam composed within two centuries of the prophet’s death. There is no earlier or more accurate source.

The History of al-Tabari, called the Ta’rikh, was written by Abu Muhammad bin al-Tabari between 870 and 920 A.D. Tabari’s History is comprised entirely of Islamic Hadith. It is arranged chronologically. Tabari is Islam’s oldest uncensored source.

This is for thick skin, thick skull and suicide bombers.

THEN WHY MOHAMMMAD WAS DOUBTING THAT EVEN THAT HIS DYING BUT DON'T KNOW WHERE IS SOUL IS GOING can you see that mohammad is in hell

I devoutness your existance retarded pal.

jcross19:

THEN WHY MOHAMMMAD WAS DOUBTING THAT EVEN THAT HIS DYING BUT DON'T KNOW WHERE IS SOUL IS GOING can you see that mohammad is in hell

With the spread of Christianity, it has been argued that Christianity was influenced by pagan rituals in a number of ways.

1. Influence on Christian dogma in Late Antiquity, that is, the doctrine of the Christian Church Fathers in the 4th and 5th century, the Nicene and Chalcedonian creeds, including the questions of the Trinity and Christology. A strong influence here was Roman imperial cult, Hellenistic philosophy, notably Neoplatonism, and Gnosticism. Christological disputes continued to dominate Christian theology well into the Early Middle Ages, down to the Third Council of Constantinople of AD 680[citation needed];
2. Influences of Pagan religions Christianized in the Early Middle Ages. This includes Germanic paganism, Celtic paganism, Slavic paganism and Folk religion in general[citation needed].

In the course of the Christianisation of Europe in the Early Middle Ages, the Christian churches adopted many elements of national cult and folk religion, resulting in national churches like Latin, Germanic, Russian, Armenian, Greek and so on.

One goal of the Reformation was to return the Christian churches to the state of early Christianity. Restorationists such as Jehovah's Witnesses continue to argue that mainstream Christianity has departed from Apostolic Christianity due, in part, to such Pagan influences.

There is where Christianity copied trinity

;d ;d ;d ;d

@ajoguegbe
I WILL QUOTE U IN RED AND REPLY U SUBSEQUENTLY.I HOPE THIS WILL HELP U OUT
"We are all saying the same thing"
No we are not,u quoted a verse wrongly(out of context) and contrast it with some verse from the bible.how can we be saying yhe same thing?U must first admit u made a mistake before u take correction.

"I drew the contrast between Jesus and Muhammad, that in some conditions Muhammad advocates war"
U c! here u come again how can u advocate war in self defence.which war can jesus fight when he has not finish with the jews in isreal talk less of other countries.

"So Jesus who was completely against war as a means to spread the Faith wouldn't have been one of your prophets. Jesus and his Apostles never fought anyone. All you quoted about wars from the bible are Old Testament. Jesus brought a new order that is perfect. Muhammad decides to follow the Old and still calling Jesus a predecessor."
have u not read in ur scriptures:mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."  

"I also don't understand all you quoted from the Bible about women"
now u don't understand the bible!!!!!!!!

"The Bible is not against the fact that the man is above the woman? That is the divine order, but it didn't say the woman is a slave or should be enslaved by the man which is what Islam is doing. Forcing women to cover their face,not come to Mosque, who to marry, not go to school etc is slavery. Muhammad pounced on women like spoils of war,they were just properties like chairs, horse etc. In the Bible, who played so many major roles especially in the ministry of Jesus
Next time"
Pls honourable neutral viewer, check above and see what the bible is saying about women and contrast it wt the Holy quran below

quran 24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest,
and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent,
and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands
or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons
or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's unclothedness.
And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.

quran [33:59] O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus,
they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

"Next time, Organise your thought better before presenting it"
the truth is one my friend

"But I advice you stop dodging the truth by covering the whole place. Jesus can set you free. He died for you to be FREE. If you need to learn more about Jesus and the Bible
Difference btw the Old and New Testament
-Why Jesus had to die
-The place of Original sin and
-What the Bible prophecies about the coming of Islam
I can offer you assistance.
Pimpu, you know you are my frnd and weve been chatting online. we can discuss it over like many others that have written me"

pls show me one place in the bible where jesus personally say he is your saviour
and about the bible prophecies about islam is a topic i can't wait to discus wt u here in the open.

Pimpu gppd work, it is hard going in circles but never the less you have remained resolute.

Aju more on Trinity:

The Rabbi ‘s deep voice echoes through the dusk, ‘Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord’.{# De 6:4} What a far cry that is from Judaism’s offspring, Christianity, and its belief in the Trinity. While the majority of the Christian world considers the concept of the Trinity vital to Christianity, many historians and Bible scholars agree that the Trinity of Christianity owes more to Greek philosophy and pagan polytheism than to the monotheism of the Jew and the Jewish Jesus.



The search for the origins of the Trinity begins with the earliest writings of man. Records of early Mesopotamian and Mediterranean civilizations show polytheistic religions, though many scholars assert that earliest man believed in one god. The 19th century scholar and Protestant minister, Alexander Hislop, devotes several chapters of his book The Two Babylons to showing how this original belief in one god was replaced by the triads of paganism which were eventually absorbed into Catholic Church dogmas. A more recent Egyptologist, Erick Hornung, refutes the original monotheism of Egypt: ‘[Monotheism is] a phenomenon restricted to the wisdom texts,’ which were written between 2600 and 2530 BC (50-51); but there is no question that ancient man believed in ‘one infinite and Almighty Creator, supreme over all’ (Hislop 14); and in a multitude of gods at a later point. Nor is there any doubt that the most common grouping of gods was a triad.1



Most of ancient theology is lost under the sands of time. However, archaeological expeditions in ancient Mesopotamia have uncovered the fascinating culture of the Sumerians, which flourished over 4,000 years ago. Though Sumeria was overthrown first by Assyria, and then by Babylon, its gods lived on in the cultures of those who conquered. The historian S. H. Hooke tells in detail of the ancient Sumerian trinity: Anu was the primary god of heaven, the ‘Father’, and the ‘King of the Gods’; Enlil, the ‘wind-god’ was the god of the earth, and a creator god; and Enki was the god of waters and the ‘lord of wisdom’ (15-18). The historian, H. W. F. Saggs, explains that the Babylonian triad consisted of ‘three gods of roughly equal rank, whose inter-relationship is of the essence of their natures’ (316).

ajoguede, what is the characteristics of being a prophet? If u can define dis clearly, I will love to talk with u. RASHEED, lagos  07055488395

ajoguede, what is the characteristics of being a prophet? If u can define dis clearly, I will love to talk with u. RASHEED, lagos  07055488395

@Onaolamipo Let me start with you. I listed what it means to be sent of God, and Jesus is the perfect example of that. In Christianity, we recognise that God sent other prophets before Jesus who is the perfect One. Other prophets had one fault or the other,but Jesus has none thats one reason (amongst many) why he qualifies to be God. Because I choose to make my answers snappy, if you are looking for a perfect example of a prophet, teacher, pastor, etc look at Jesus. In his relationship with others, He was faultless. His morality speaks volumes.he never particpated in any war nor encouraged any.As a prophet,he prophesied and all his prophecies about the End Time (Matt 24 & Luke 17,21)is right before our eyes. He did not just teach,he practiced what he taught. Muhammed, nor anyother person that identifies with Him,can not be a murderer, Jewish haters(like Muhammad and Hitler), womanizer, bandit, etc because he was none of that.
If you want more clarification send me an email ajoguegbe@yahoo.com
@vedaxcool   

Pimpu gppd work, it is hard going in circles but never the less you have remained resolute. Aju more on Trinity:

I will not answer you on Trinity on this thread since it is not the subject matter, we can discuss that next time. I like a coordinated thought line not going around like a desperate drowning man looking for a lifeline to clinch. Thanx however for the challenge, when it is time,Ill give you details

@Pimpu

"I drew the contrast between Jesus and Muhammad, that in some conditions Muhammad advocates war"
U c! here u come again how can u advocate war in self defence.

You call it self defense? May be I dont understand what self defence is, does it include calling for war against potential threats?

which war can jesus fight when he has not finish with the jews in isreal talk less of other countries

You see that is why I refered to Muhammad as "an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way." Jesus was a perfect example of humility. He taught the world that you can become famous by serving people not by fighting people. He knew his assignment will start from the Jews to the whole world. Andd today, he is the most popular person in the world, with the highest number of following. I wish people can learn from Him, our ambitions will be controlled by conscience and character.

have u not read in your scriptures: mathew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." 

what does it mean to say that Jesus came to fulfil the law?
First of all, Jesus is talking about "the Law" and "the Prophets". This was the way people of His day refers to the Bible, which we now refer to as the "Old Testament"! The "law" contains all of God's commandments. Jesus clearly says that He did not come to abolish the Old Testament nor its laws, but to fulfill them. What does "fulfill" mean? Let us look to the Bible for clarification.

Matt 1:22-23 "All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"-which means, "God with us.""

Matt 2:14-15 "So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 1where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son.""

Matt 8:17 "This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases.""

John 19:28-29 "Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty.""

"Fulfilled" clearly means completed. The shadow has met its reality. It has been accomplished.

pls show me one place in the bible where jesus personally say he is your saviour.

The Wikipaedia defines the word saviour as "a person who helps people achieve Salvation, or saves them from something". Jesus Christ referring to himself said, in Matt 18:11
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."
again
"And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. For the Son of man(Jesus) is come to seek and to save that which was lost."Luke 19:9-10

and about the bible prophecies about islam is a topic i can't wait to discus wt u here in the open

since that is not the topic at hand i suggest you visit the blog: http://judewatchman..com/2010/01/suicide-bombing-according-to-bible-by.html.

Any I didn't answer Please, Alert me. I want you to know the truth you were not told[size=8pt][/size]

You see that is why I refered to Muhammad as "an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way." Jesus was a perfect example of humility. He taught the world that you can become famous by serving people not by fighting people. He knew his assignment will start from the Jews to the whole world. Andd today, he is the most popular person in the world, with the highest number of following. I wish people can learn from Him, our ambitions will be controlled by conscience and character.

Now see a great delusion he is clearly quoting from Yahoo answer, to bad you cannot reason and research the topic for yourself, he claims The prophet Mohammad (S.A.W) was obsessed with dreams of grandiosity. it seems when aju goes to church lies are the only thing his pastor tells him cause any unbiased person who study the prophet history will read about the most modest man that ever walk the earth
Abu Hurairah, one of Muhammad's companions who narrated many Hadith, reported that the Prophet Muhammad said,

"Faith has some seventy branches. The uppermost of all these branches is the Testimony of Faith; that is: `there is no true god except Allah' while the least of these branches is the removal of harmful object from the road. And modesty is a branch of Faith.''

In the construction of the Mosque in Madina after the Hijra, he carried two sun-dried bricks while everybody else carried one.63 In the digging of the ditch around Madina to defend the city in the Battle of the Ditch, the Companions bound a stone around their bellies because of hunger, but God’s Messenger himself bound two, because he was more hungry than anybody else.64 Once, a man saw him and, due to his awe-inspiring appearance, began to tremble out of fear. The Messenger, upon him be peace and blessings, calmed him, saying: ‘Brother, don’t be afraid! I am a man, like you, whose mother used to eat dry bread.’65 Again, a woman suffering from insanity pulled him by the hand and said: ‘Come with me and do my housework.’ God’s Messenger went with the woman and did the work.66 As reported by ‘A’isha, mother of believers, God’s Messenger patched his clothes, repaired his shoes and helped his wives with the housework.

If this is a person that takes himself self important then I only wonder what kind of brain the person that lays such allegation has. To me it is apparent that we Muslim do not owe any explanation as Aju that threw the topic hardly gave us what the characteristics of he is too ignorant, as I have show above( quoting verbatim from Yahoo-answers - that is why his claim does not hold water-) to bring evidence that has been carefully scrutinized by an intelligent head.