You tried to discount Ibn Ishaq. What about the others also, Tabari, Bukhari et al? Can we therefore take it that you reject your hadiths?

That is why you are quite ignorant of what you are discussing as I have earlier indicated tabari's book is Historical not a hadiths I do not know how else to put for you but that is it, Bukhari and others did not speak of the so called satanic verses in their collection of hadiths rather they stated the story to the extent that was true that is when the Prophet state the verse the Meccans bowed down with, so I do not know where you found it in the hadiths but like I have earlier stated  lying seems to be a christian virtue when discussing other religion. An d as for those that say I am filling up the place with post --It s not my fault if you can't read as it seems you are only interested in stating falsehood and hypocrisy but unrelenting I persist to show you how dark your ethics are since it is acceptable in your religion to lie in order to get converts now that is pathetic as lies only shows the falsehood of your anthropomorphic religion, I have shown instances of the prophet kindness and forgiving heart yet to the hypocrits it is all a show of grandiosity, the seeing can indeed be blind.
One day the Messenger of God went out looking for Zayd. Now there was a covering of haircloth over the doorway, but the wind had lifted the covering so that the doorway was uncovered. Zaynab was in her chamber, undressed, and admiration for her entered the heart of the Prophet. (Al-Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. viii, p. 4)
The problems with the sources is that they are known to be liars. Both Muhammad Ibn Umar and Abdullah ibn ‘Amr Al-Aslami were known back in the early days of Islam to be liars and dishonest when it came to narrating stories about Prophet Muhammad. Muhammad Ibn Umar is known to be Al-Waqidi. Al-Waqidi was known to be a liar and many Islamic scholars have disregared his narrations.
So this story you are quoting are just stories of lies and you seem drawn to them.

William Montgomery Watt doubts the accuracy of this portion of the narrative, since it does not occur in the earliest source, and that it is unlikely that Muhammad was attracted since Zaynab (after Khadija) was the most elderly woman Muhammad married.

thus Zaynab acquiesced and married Zayd. Zaynab's marriage to Jash was unharmonious, and eventually became unbearable, that was what cause the breakup of Jash marriage to Zaynab not what you stated in a bid to lie as you write.

Yet in your race to discredit Islam you ignorantly failed top state how certain previlages where taken from him like in 33:52 which states that It is not lawful for thee (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even though their beauty attract thee, except any thy right hand should possess (as handmaidens): and Allah doth watch over all things. So even 33:41 is opened to every muslim but more importantly the verse seeks to make known to muslims that their adopted sons are not their biological sons. One can go on on as to why out lies has become a missionary landmark, but lets stick to the matter.

And you are a Muslim who claims to read his Qur'an but you don't understand the words you read therein. Of course there was a party of them that followed idols and Aaron was included

Well state the verse that says Aron followed them instead of telling me stories.

1. "Al-ilah" was one of the tribal gods of the Quraysh, along with the aforementioned three goddesses and 300+ others. The controversy was that your prophet wanted to throw out the others, much like as I pointed out earlier, Akhenaten wanted to elevate the worship of Aten, or to put in terms you can understand someone coming to the Greeks and saying only Zeus should be worshiped.

Again this is how a typical missionary states his opinion and claims he has given proof more funny his class mates applauds him with hossanas but again I will state what watts spoke of you christians cause that is the  only explanation for this fabricated "proofs" , One only hopes the holy ghost does not tickle your fancy with your many whirl winds Idea.

And like Watts stated

Of all the world's greatest men none has been so much maligned as Muhammad. It is easy to see how this has come about. For centuries Islam was the great enemy of Christendom, for Christendom was in direct contact with no other organized states comparable in power to the Muslims. The Byzantine empire, after losing its provinces in Syria and Egypt, was being attacked in Asia Minor, while Western Europe was threatened through Spain and Sicily. Even before the Crusades focused attention on the expulsion of the Sarcens from the Holy Land, medieval war-propaganda, free from the restraints of factuality was building up a conception of 'the great enemy'. At one point Muhammad was transformed into Mahound, the prince of darkness. By the eleventh century the idea about Islam and Muslims current in the crusading armies were such travesties that they had a bad effect on morale. The crusaders had been led to expect the worst of their enemies, and, when they found many chivalrous knights among them, they were filled with distrust for the authorities of their own religion.[2]. 

If any one is willing to read my post on the so called satanic verse then you will be educated rather than insisting that your myopic understanding of the event is final.

@vedaxcool: Seems you are losing your cool. Consistent with the vile spirit of Islam that animates you is the fact that you cannot respond to those who disagree with you without insults. How then can you convince me that your way is better?

Hardly your lies can not make me lose my cool as i am replying you in a like fashion and more than convincing you my way is better i am disproving you as liar and fabricator who thinks his opinion are historical in nature.

The spirit of War in Muhammad resurrects in all Islamic leaders. RELIGION OF PEACE INDEED

Now let us examine how christian leaders reasoned before Aju was born:

This are the words of hitler "I believe that today I am acting in accordance with the will of Almighty God. As I announce the most important work that Christians could undertake and that is to be against the Jews and get rid of them once and for all. We are doing the work of the Lord and let's get on with it." Hitler stated, "Martin Luther has been the greatest encouragement of my life. Luther was a great man. He was a giant. Within one blow he heralded the coming of the new dawn and the new age. He saw clearly that the Jews need to be destroyed and we're only beginning to see that we need to carry this work on." Hitler followed to the letter, Luther's treatise on how to exterminate the Jews. Martin Luther preached his last sermon avidly against the Jews and died four days later. Indeed, Nazi leader Julius Streicher at his Nuremberg trial stated, "I have never said anything that Martin Luther did not say". remember Martin Luther was the father of protestantism.

more on intelligent quotes from the church fathers
[b]Gregory of Nazianzus, the Bishop of Constantinople had this to say about women, "Fierce is the dragon and cunning the asp; But and cunning the asp; But woman have the malice of both."

According to the theologian Origen, women are worse than animals because they are continuously full of lust.[12] Origen does not approve of the sexual act even in marriage and taught that although widowers can remarry, they are by no means crowned for this.[6] He also argued in his commentary on 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 that female prophets never spoke publicly in the assembly.[4]

St. Clement of Alexandria had such a contempt for women that he believed such a feeling must be universal. He wrote, in his book Paedagogus that in women, "the consciousness of their own nature must evoke feelings of shame". He also suggested that wWomen should also fetch from the pantry things that we need.[13]

Gregory of Nyssa taught that the sexual act was an outcome of the fall and that marriage is the outcome of sin

John Chrysostom, bishop of Constantinople at the beginning of the fifth century, said of biblical women that they "were great characters, great women and admirable…. Yet did they in no case outstrip the men, but occupied the second rank" (Epistle to the Ephesians, Homily 13). Commenting on 1 Timothy 2:11-15,

Chrysostom said that "the male sex enjoyed the higher honor. Man was first formed; and elsewhere he shows their superiority…. He wishes the man to have the preeminence in every way." Of women he said that "The woman taught once, and ruined all. On this account therefore he saith, let her not teach. But what is it to other women, that she suffered this? It certainly concerns them; for the sex is weak and fickle, and he is speaking of the sex collectively." (1 Timothy, Homily 9).

Augustine elevated the contempt of women and sex to a level unsurpassed before. To him, women's inferiority to men was so obvious [9] that he felt that he had to ask the question: "Why was woman created at all".[6] He concluded that woman was created purely for procreation and for nothing else.[10] The expulsion of Adam and Eve from paradise, according to him, was purely the fault of Eve.
[/b]

aletheia <---- you're far more knowledgeable in this matter than any other person I know here. I'd be having questions for you soon on this matter and would direct it to your mail. Don't post your mail here, I'll get it somehow.

Holla!

Tertullian's views on women went further: "The curse God pronounced on your sex still weighs on the world. …You are the devil's gateway…. You are the first that deserted the divine laws. All too easily you destroyed the image of God, Adam. Because you deserved death, it was the son of God who had to die".[5]

St Jerome, the well known Biblical scholar and translator of the Bible into Latin (the Vulgate) have a simple view of women. To him "woman is the root of all evil." [6] Like all the early Christian theologians, Jerome glorified virginity and looked down on marriage. He reasoning, was also rooted in Genesis: "Eve in paradise was a virgin , understand that virginity is natural and that marriage comes after the Fall.

Yet most of them will not be objective enough to tell us why their wise church leaders viewed women in such terms, tfunny thing is it was  women that delivered all  this church fathers yet they condemed them(including their mothers)b with hasrh terms. mordern christian society is not a product of christianity ---religion in this societies have been relegated in the back seat----- but materialism gave birth to women freedom and equality in christendom.

More on the Prophets grandiosity:

Umar ibn Al Khattab says "So this property was especially given to Allah's Apostle, but, by Allah, neither did he take possession of it and leave your, nor did he favour himself with it to your exclusion, but he gave it to all of you and distributed it amongst you till this property remained out of it. Allah's Apostle used to spend the yearly expenses of his family out of this property and used to keep the rest of its revenue to be spent on Allah's Cause. Allah's Apostle kept on doing this during all his lifetime." (Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53 Number 326)

Narrated Abu Hazim:I asked Sahl bin Sad, "Did Allah's Apostle ever eat white flour?" Sahl said, "Allah's Apostle never saw white flour since Allah sent him as an Apostle till He took him unto Him." I asked, "Did the people have (use) sieves during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle?" Sahl said, "Allah's Apostle never saw (used) a sieve since Allah sent him as an Apostle until He took him unto Him," I said, "How could you eat barley unsifted?" he said, "We used to grind it and then blow off its husk, and after the husk flew away, we used to prepare the dough (bake) and eat it." (Muslim Volume 7, Number 324)

Narrated 'Amir bin Al-Harith: Allah's Apostle (Prophet Muhammad) did not leave a Dinar or a Dirham or a male or a female slave. He left only his white mule on which he used to ride, and his weapons, and a piece of land which he gave in charity for the needy travelers. (Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 738)

Muhammad and his family lived in small apartments adjacent the mosque at Medina. Each of these were six to seven spans wide (5.5 feet) and ten spans long (7.5 feet). The height of the ceiling was that of an average man standing. The blankets were used as curtains to screen the doors.[76]

Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number."[77]

Although the Prophet's wives had special status as Mothers of the Believers (Arabic: Ummu l-Mu'minīn), he did not allow his wives to use his status as a prophet to obtain special treatment in public.[78]

@Aletheia:

You got mail. Any idea how to get to Enigma?

@vedaxcool
I am not troubled by your consistent ignorant persistence, I wanted to ignore you completely but discovered you are getting the truth. When you say 'Yahoo answers' I laugh because, if you have read all my posts, you will see I went straight to the point and summarized where necessary- a sign I studied and mastered my subject. But you, Chakula, Nonpugee, and Pimpu just copy from whatever source and paste without even reading what you are pasting. so you fill the whole space with something that would have been summarized if you had studied what you wanted to pasted. As for Muhammad's life, I know enough to educate you.

@ajoguegbe u sound so full of yourself with nothing to show for it,u can't even admit u lifted from yahoo answer instead u are trying to maneuver ur way, saying u summarised ur point,what a shame.the truth of the fact is that we all get our source online but the difference between us and u is  that we back up our point with fact.

As for Muhammad's life, I know enough to educate you.

pls don't say this again it only discredit u b4 me,u can't even quote a verse corectly from the holy quran talk less understand ISLAM.

Jesus cared for the poor, but also encouraged the art of industry. He understood that you don't just help the poor/hungry by giving them fish, rather teach them to fish. Nations and people that apply this 'Jesus principle' build their human capital, but places like Islamic parts of Northern Nigeria, produce almajiris, and beggers who go about begging for akara and fried yam. Jesus told Judas who ,made that suggestion that people like him will always have the poor with them (like Judas like Muslims). In Christianity we encourage the poor to think 'give' 'give' not 'take' 'take'. We believe that you reap by sowing. Jesus says
'give and it shall be given back to you'(Lk 6:38), and
'it is more blessed to give than to receive'(Acts 20:35)

Again baseless aquisation without fact.except u are in lagos, port harcourt , no state in nigeria can be compare with kaduna. That apart u will agree with me on this that[b] begging[/b] is still beter than prostitution and yahoo yahooo.

@Pimpu
Quote
Did Luke witness his ministry and did he not contradict mathew n Mark?
You are serving me third party statement all these while, all I asked from you is to serve me where Jesus categorically said that.
Get it clear, Luke did not contradict Matthew and Mark. But if the ones i gave you are not enough.get more
Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:17, "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
John 10:9
"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."
KJV

except u are deluded or something like that u will no that u are still repeating the same thing,he said God sent him to save the world he didn't say he is your personal saviour.ALL AM TELLING U IS WORSHIP THE HELPER AND NOT THE HELPED,THE SENDER AND NOT THE SENT

Because you said you are looking for where Jesus says He is the Saviour. But meanwhile, realize that Jesus is the Word of God (the Bible) John 1:1. In more than 100 places, the Bible refers to Jesus Christ as the Saviour of the world. Since Jesus is the Word personified, it means HE said it over a hundred times.
Finally, read the quote above, Jesus says He is the door and not Muhammad, ACCEPT HIM TODAY

I SEE WHERE U ARE GOING TO NOW,SINCE U COULDN'T SHOW WHERE HE SAID HE IS YOUR PERSONAL SAVIOUR , U WANT TO MANEUVER UR WAY OUT BY CLAIMING HE IS THE WORD AND THE WORD IS GOD.MY DEAR FRIEND CHECK OUT MY POSTS IN "TOP TEN REASON WHY JESUS IS NOT GOD"I TELL U THEN U WILL HAVE THE TRUE PEACE

Laughable nonsense everywhere. Why cover too much space and say nothing?

Holla!

Get it clear, Luke did not contradict Matthew and Mark

YES THIS IS ANOTHER COPY AND PASTE WITH FACT,WHAT A SHAME U SEEMS NOT TO NO THIS

1. Matthew and Luke disagree

Matthew and Luke give two contradictory genealogies for Joseph (Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38). They cannot even agree on who the father of Joseph was. Church apologists try to eliminate this discrepancy by suggesting that the genealogy in Luke is actually Mary's, even though Luke says explicitly that it is Joseph's genealogy (Luke 3:23). Christians have had problems reconciling the two genealogies since at least the early fourth century. It was then that Eusebius, a "Church Father," wrote in his The History of the Church, "each believer has been only too eager to dilate at length on these passages."

[b]2. Why genealogies of Joseph?

Both the genealogies of Matthew and Luke show that Joseph was a direct descendant of King David. But if Joseph is not Jesus' father, then Joseph's genealogies are meaningless as far as Jesus is concerned, and one has to wonder why Matthew and Luke included them in their gospels. The answer, of course, is that the genealogies originally said that Jesus was the son of Joseph and thus Jesus fulfilled the messianic requirement of being a direct descendant of King David.

Long after Matthew and Luke wrote the genealogies the church invented (or more likely borrowed from the mystery religions) the doctrine of the virgin birth. Although the virgin birth could be accommodated by inserting a few words into the genealogies to break the physical link between Joseph and Jesus, those same insertions also broke the physical link between David and Jesus.

The church had now created two major problems: 1) to explain away the existence of two genealogies of Joseph, now rendered meaningless, and 2) to explain how Jesus was a descendant of David.

The apostle Paul says that Jesus "was born of the seed of David"[/b] (Romans 1:3). [b]Here the word "seed" is literally in the Greek "sperma." This same Greek word is translated in other verses as "descendant(s)" or "offspring." The point is that the Messiah had to be a physical descendant of King David through the male line. That Jesus had to be a physical descendant of David means that even if Joseph had legally adopted Jesus (as some apologists have suggested), Jesus would still not qualify as Messiah if he had been born of a virgin - seed from the line of David was required.

Women did not count in reckoning descent for the simple reason that it was then believed that the complete human was present in the man's sperm (the woman's egg being discovered in 1827). The woman's womb was just the soil in which the seed was planted. Just as there was barren soil that could not produce crops, so also the Bible speaks of barren wombs that could not produce children.

This is the reason that although there are many male genealogies in the Bible, there are no female genealogies. This also eliminates the possibility put forward by some apologists that Jesus could be of the "seed of David" through Mary.

[Editor's note: As one reader has pointed out, "Genesis 3:15 says 'And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed.' So women can pass on 'seed' according to the bible."][/b]

TO BE CONTINUE SO MANY TO COME!!!!!!!!!!

@Vvedaxcool [list]
[li]GREAT WORK[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list],I REALLY LIKE THE HITLER STUFF U DROPED ABOVE,I ALSO HAVE SOME MATERIAL I WANT U TO SHARE WITH U, THEN U WILL NO WHY PRECAP2,ALETHEIA AND AJOGUEGBE REMAIN DELUDED

BLUELAND44U@YAHOO.COM-SEND UR EMAIL TO ME

Man thanks you one can only try his best to clear all the cobwebs from the eyes of the Ignorant.I will send you my mail as requested.

Pimpu:

@Vvedaxcool [list]
[li]GREAT WORK[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list],I REALLY LIKE THE HITLER STUFF U DROPED ABOVE,I ALSO HAVE SOME MATERIAL I WANT U TO SHARE WITH U, THEN U WILL NO WHY PRECAP2,ALETHEIA AND AJOGUEGBE REMAIN DELUDED

BLUELAND44U@YAHOO.COM-SEND your EMAIL TO ME

Hitler was a Satanist and not a Christian. Just as every other fake religion like to quote Christianity to back up themselves, so he did. But that's good, the devil is not interested in quoting what is from bottom false, that's why everyone wants to corrupt the TRUTH so that all will appear false. Even though I have not verified your quote above knowing full well that Muslims could easily lie with such quotes just to discredit Christianity.
"Satan has striven against the TRUTH in manifold ways, he has even tried to destroy it by defending it". . . Tetuillian.
We can't let Muslims defend Christianity or appropriate Christ as they want to do, let them convert to the TRUTH and acknowledge same to be True.

vedaxcool:

Man thanks you one can only try his best to clear all the cobwebs from the eyes of the Ignorant.I will send you my mail as requested.

What was it Karl Marx said: Religion is the opiate of the masses. It's too pronounced in Muslims. How can ignorant, violent, rageful guy like vedacool say he's clearing cobweb from someones eyes?
Come to Jesus and be lifted from this dungeon of hate and violence.

Holla!

What was it Karl Marx said: Religion is the opiate of the masses----hmmm if I can remember correctly Karl Max had Christianity in Mind where made that statement after studying how the masses where being robbed and instead of the church telling them to rebel it said turn the other cheek, so CRAP why don't you turn the other cheek as your pastors are getting rich because of your turn the cheek policy(even when you are being cheated)

Now let me show more quotes from Hitler and then you can't miss coming to the conclusion that christianity played a major role in making him commit the genocide

* he Epistle of Barnabus shows the Church exalted at the expense of the synagogue and the deadly word "Deicide" (the killing of God) appeared in Christian writings.

* Justin Martyr charged that the Jews crucified Christ in the highest pitch of their wickedness. It was during this time (150 A.D.) that the first encounter with Replacement Theology was embraced where the church replaced the Jews as God's chosen people.

* Tertullian argued that divine judgment is upon Israel, and Jews are destined to suffer for the crucifixion.------------>
"Satan has striven against the TRUTH in manifold ways, he has even tried to destroy it by defending it". . . Tetuillian.

* New ideas opposing "law" sprang up as early as 160-320 A.D. Marcion, 2nd century, adopted Matthew 5:17 as key theme to ending God's law and taught that the grace of God superseded it, rejecting the Old Testament.

* Several Church Councils from 341 A.D. to 626 A.D. prohibited Christians from celebrating the Sabbath, festivals, and even eating with the Jews. It seemed that the greatest concern with Judaism on the part of Christians leaders was the attraction that it held for Christians. . . . These rules do not come out of bad relations between Jews and Christians (what would now be called, erroneously, antisemitism), but rather were enacted because relations were good and the authorities wanted to separate the two peoples. God has always had a remnant who has followed the Torah.

* John Chrysostom, 344-407 A.D., preached: "The Jews , are worse than wild beasts , lower than the vilest animals. Debauchery and drunkenness had brought them to the level of the lusty goat and the pig. They know only , to satisfy their stomachs, to get drunk, to kill and beat each other up , I hate the Jews , I hate the Synagogue , it is the duty of all Christians to hate the Jews.

Origen, 185-254 A.D., was most responsible for changing the way the Church interpreted prophecy, creating the atmosphere

At the Bürgerbräukeller on April 12, 1922, Hitler said:I would like here to appeal to a greater than I, Count Lerchenfeld. He said in the last session of the Landtag that his feeling 'as a man and a Christian' prevented him from being an anti-Semite. I say: My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. , How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison.
This is how antisemetism became part and percel of Christianity in Europe and later influnced Hitler with his rabid hatred of jews.

Now let us ask the so called knowledgable ones whether they have any knowledge of this ignoble statements credited to this christian giants.

vedaxcool:

Now let me show more quotes from Hitler and then you can't miss coming to the conclusion that christianity played a major role in making him commit the genocide

* he Epistle of Barnabus shows the Church exalted at the expense of the synagogue and the deadly word "Deicide" (the killing of God) appeared in Christian writings.

* Justin Martyr charged that the Jews crucified Christ in the highest pitch of their wickedness. It was during this time (150 A.D.) that the first encounter with Replacement Theology was embraced where the church replaced the Jews as God's chosen people.

* Tertullian argued that divine judgment is upon Israel, and Jews are destined to suffer for the crucifixion.------------>
"Satan has striven against the TRUTH in manifold ways, he has even tried to destroy it by defending it". . . Tetuillian.

* New ideas opposing "law" sprang up as early as 160-320 A.D. Marcion, 2nd century, adopted Matthew 5:17 as key theme to ending God's law and taught that the grace of God superseded it, rejecting the Old Testament.

Now I believe more than at any other time that you're deranged. Did you see what you wrote above? That you would show more quotes from Hitler and you ended up with puzzles from almost 2000 years ago. Hitler wasn't there then, he was born 20 April 1889, how could you have been quoting what he said about 1800 years before he was born.
Have you ever been admitted in mental hospital before? It's necessary you go for routine check up.

Holla!

@vedaxcool: I believe this thread is about why Muhammad is not a prophet. The stuff about Hitler belongs to your other thread. I think you beginning to get your threads crossed.
Any more evidence to come on the inauthenticity of your prophet. . .

Now I believe more than at any other time that you're deranged. Did you see what you wrote above? That you would show more quotes from Hitler and you ended up with puzzles from almost 2000 years ago. Hitler wasn't there then, he was born 20 April 1889, how could you have been quoting what he said about 1800 years before he was born.
Have you ever been admitted in mental hospital before? It's necessary you go for routine check up.

No but you have been admitted to a mental hospital as hitler statement was the last in the post, but more than ever you are jejune of high caliber where you born when your holy? bible was written, I guess the answer is no but it clearly influence your thinking (muddled thinking) in essence I have proven that your church fathers where the god fathers of Hitler since the whole of Europe was influnced by their anti-Semitic thinking right at the begining of christianity. And as for alethia I have chosen to post on this on Hitler and the church Father because of your delusion that your religion is peaceful. And the greatest tragedy is that this same church father want to use the blood of Jesus to go haven yet still hate the Jews for killing Jesus----->it help spilling the blood of Jesus that you now use in cleaning your sins,hff it seems not every can really reason rationally.

Holla!

I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

Adolf Hitler

No comment till a reasonable,intelligent and mature point is made.

I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

Adolf Hitler---------> Proud to be doing the service of Christianity, Religion of peace indeed.

Liars wont you invent a way out of the Bondage The church taught Hitler. But alass lies is the only thing they know how to do ----when lies are confronted withh truth the liar begin to quiver like a church bell.

ajoguegbe:

No comment till a reasonable,intelligent and mature point is made.

Or more like until a reasonable, intelligent, and mature person makes a point

Holla!

Truth has come falsehood has vanished
I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

Adolf Hitler---------> Proud to be doing the service of Christianity, Religion of peace indeed.

Guess the liars have been beaten squarely in their game using illuminating truth.

Holla!

@Aletheia: « #103 on: July 26, 2010, 03:46 AM »

Quote from: nopuqeater on July 26, 2010, 01:54 AM
To sum up, the story basically says that when the Prophet was leading the prayer one time near the Ka’bah, he was reciting Surah 53:19-20 and then he said a verse 'those are the high-flying cranes and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for' so the Quraysh got happy that the Prophet spoke so positively about their Gods and then also prostrated with the Muslims when they prostrated in their prayer. Then Allah sent down a verse rebuking the Prophet Muhammad (Surah 17:73-75) and also sent down a verse abrogating the ‘Satanic revelation’ (Surah 22:52),
^^^There you go: even your words agree with what is written.
From the website you cited:

Aletheia. Me being a yoruba man will call you three times: Aletheia. Aletheia. Aletheia. Shame on you. You have no good morals. Truth is far away from your heart. On the 26th of July, 2010., I entered a response on page 4 of this thread to refute your lies. Instead of starting from the beginning of the sentence, your lying christian heart, with the devil that made you believe a man as God Almighty began from the middle.

If you had began from the beginning, and I am now believing that you are suffering from Saul syndrome of blindness on the way to Damascus, it would have been clear to you and all that the statement says; nothing could have been far from the truth that the prophet (AS) utter any so called satanic verse! This is what I wrote and requested that you read the story! "[b]Did Jesus act upon the suggestion of Satan in any of the many times he said Satan played on him? If he didnt, why do you think Muhammmad's case is different, assuming there was a proposal of opposition? I am now giving you an assignment for further clarification of the subject matter; www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/satanic_verses.htm - Cached
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) And The Satanic Verses
By
Bassam Zawadi
There is no greater lie than the Satanic verses lie. The Prophet never said those verses. To sum up, the story basically says that when the Prophet was leading the prayer one time near the Ka’bah, he was reciting Surah 53:19-20 and then he said a verse 'those are the high-flying cranes and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for' so the Quraysh got happy that the Prophet spoke so positively about their Gods and then also prostrated with the Muslims when they prostrated in their prayer. Then Allah sent down a verse rebuking the Prophet Muhammad (Surah 17:73-75) and also sent down a verse abrogating the ‘Satanic revelation’ (Surah 22:52),, [/b]"

Quote
Ibn Sad says that before this, in the Rajab of the 5th year of Prophethood, a small group of the Companions had emigrated to Abyssinia. Then, when in the Ramadan of the same year this incident took place the news spread that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) had recited Surah An-Najm publicly in the assembly of the Quraish and the whole assembly, including the believers as well as the disbelievers, had fallen down in prostration with him. When the emigrants to Abyssinia heard this news they formed the impression that the disbelievers of Makkah had become Muslims. Thereupon, some of them returned to Makkah in the Shawwal of the 5th year of Prophethood, only to learn that the news was wrong and the conflict between Islam and disbelief was raging as furiously as before. Consequently, the second emigration to Abyssinia took place, in which many more people left Makkah.

So where is that erse or part of that verse in the Quran? All abrogated verse remains in the Quran. Abrogation means a later verse replaces what was revealed earlier. For example the command not to drink alcohol at all, replaces by abrogation the verse that says do not approach salah in the state of alcoholic influences. When you read the Quran both of them are in there, serving a very lasting purpose of progression of the faith of new muslim who gradually will become a true and unmovable believer before he dies.

^^^The writer on that website only makes an emotional argument, which can be summarized thus:
"The prophet was sinless and perfect, therefore what he was said to have done couldn't have happened", essentially ignoring the eyewitness accounts. Even ignoring the evidence right before him. The Quraysh were hostile and opposed to your prophet, yet they prostrated together with him after he uttered certain words. Since they did not become Muslims, it can be seen that what he said was something that they were favorably disposed to hearing. And several of your Islamic historians confirm this incident. Those of you living several centuries removed from the events may deny it as much as you wish (given the indoctrination concerning your prophet) but those who were witnesses confirm it.

And Quran leaves in it the Surah Abasa. And Quran leaves in it the verse of the marriage of ZAynab (RA) to the prophet after the divorce from Zayid ibn Thabit (RA). Why leave these and the other was not in it, except that it did not happen? If it had happened, it would have been in it and all muslims would have even used it as a proof of his prophet, anyway since Allah corrected him. In the Quran, Surah Najm, Allah says of Muhammad (AS); your companion is not insane, or influenced by any evil thing. He saw what he saw,

I will elaborate that Allah did not let Muhammad (AS) say anything except what he was commanded by the incidence of the death of his favorite supporting uncle at the Battle of Huud. When Washi the black slave of the pagan Makkan killed Hamza bin AbiMutallib (RA), the prophet was saddened that he wanted to curse Washi, upon hearing of his uncle's tragic death. Allahsent Malaika Jibril (AS) to stop Muhammad (AS) from saying the curse word, which would have been accepted, coming from the mouth of a prophet. If Allah prevented him from something this simple, cant you have the sense that his Lord would have prevented him from any influence of Satan when it comes to what is to enter the Quran? Dont you have any sense?

Bukhari too confirms that after Muhammad recited Surah 53 the Quraysh accepted Muhammad and prayed with him:

Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet , prostrated while reciting An-Najm (Sura 53) and with him prostrated the Muslims, the pagans (the Quraysh), the jinns, and all human beings. (Bukhari: volume 2, book 19, number 177, Khan)
Muhammad's desire had been realised; the Quraysh accepted him. The Muslims who had fled to Abyssinia heard about this and many of them began to return to Mecca. The Quraysh accepted Muhammad because he had, "spoken of (their) gods in splendid fashion" (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166). The Islamic explanation as to why Muhammad accepted the idols is that he desired a way to attract the Quraysh and Satan used this opportunity to put these words on Muhammad's lips:

How old are you aletheia? You wanted to quote Bukhari. But you mixed it up with Ibn Ishaq, Page 166! You freaking kidding me? You think you can pull your liar wool over our eyes? You think you are doing the Bible thingy where you lace Matthew up with Mark to make a point? VERSE 62 is a prostration demanded verse, man! Stop acting as if you are thinking with your behind! No one says that Muhammad (AS) and his companions (RA) prostrated before that verse 62. I prostrate on verse 62. Every muslim does.

Now the apostle was anxious for the welfare of his people, wishing to attract them as far as he could. It has been mentioned that he longed for a way to attract them , (and) Satan, when he (Muhammad) was meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it (sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq[6] whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 165-166)
This is what is meant by the phrase, the Satanic Verses; they were words that Muhammad spoke from Satan and his own desire. The Islamic accounts then say that the angel Gabriel rebuked Muhammad for what he had said:

Anyone who knows the desert well, will have the sense to know that gharaniq (crane; a large bird) cant exist in it! What Makkans know is "Misinjil" (Small tiny little bird). Where did the story tellers get their Crane from in a desert? The big cats in the desert are smaller, much much smaller than what you find in luscious and fertile vegetation. Even though it did not happen, you by mentioning Jibril (AS, Ruhu Qudus; Holy spirit), is a proof that Prophet Muhammad (AS) is truly a prophet. Aletheia, you should watch the National Geographics. The lion in Sahara desert is like the size of the juveniles in Serengeti. So is the elephant. How can crane size bird exists where there are no abundance of water and food?

Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 166)
Then Muhammad confessed:

I ascribed to Allah, what He had not said. (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, vol. 1, p. 237)

I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken. (Al-Tabari, The History of Al-Tabari, vol. vi, p. 111)

Muhammad then announced that Gabriel had now told him to speak against the idols and so what he recited changed. Previously it had been:

Have you thought of al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third , these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 165-166)
Now the verse became:

Have you considered El-Lat and El-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other? What, have you males, and He females? That were indeed an unjust division. They are naught but names yourselves have named, and your fathers; God has sent down no authority touching them. (Qur'an 53:19-23, Arberry)
This final form of the verse is what is now in the modern Qur'an.

The Quraysh saw that Muhammad had now changed his message:

When the annulment of what Satan had put upon the prophet's tongue came from God, (the) Quraysh said: "Muhammad has repented of what he said about the position of your gods with Allah, altered it and brought something else." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 166-167)
This explanation, that Satan had placed these words on Muhammad tongue and God had now cancelled it, now had to be justified to both his followers and to the Quraysh. The answer came by referring to another part of the Qur'an:

Never have We sent a single prophet or apostle before you with whose wishes Satan did not tamper. But God abrogates the interjections of Satan and confirms His own revelations. (Qur'an 22:52, Dawood)
Muhammad's justification was that other prophets had had their wishes tampered with by Satan just as he had done, but God had corrected the whole situation.

Jibril (AS) has a hadith named after him; He came to teach you your religion. Jibril is not the teacher of Muhammad. Allah is. Jibril is not the tutor of Muhammad. Allah is. When revelation came to Muhammad (AS), the first 5 verses of Surah Alaq, by the end of it, when the prophet (AS) emerged from the place of revelation, Cave of Hira, Jibril said to Muhammd; am Jibril, you are the Messenger of Allah. Muhammad called his people together a short while later and informed them of Allah is the Only God. Based on this, his uncle Abilahab (lanatUllah) became his open enemy along with abujahal. If this prophet was that bold and did not waiver, when then did he say of the cranes are of worthy intercession? Was it when Umar bin Kattab became muslim or before? If it was before, then I ask; why didnt he become Muslim right there and then? Why AbiLahab never became Muslim at all, considering that a verse was already revealed that he will die as a disbeliever, from the the earliest of islamic Makkan life when he declared his open hatred to his own favorite nephew before Islam? No disbeliever can reason things out before they accept it because Satan is playing with their minds.

Three questions for you:
1. What language uses Eloi as the name of God (now that you agree it's not in the Qur'an?

Eloi in one semitic language is Allah in Arabic another semitic language and Olorun, yet in another, a yoruba language having some semitic underpinnings. What is it in your language? Lol. Syriac must be Eloi for Allah in Arabic.

2. If as you allege Christians worship 3 gods, who then is the third god?

You are protestant. Right? What about the father, the son and the holy spirit? If you are a catholic, at least you ask Mary the mother of your god to do something for you. No? Allah says in Surah Maida to Jesus son of Mary; did you tell people to take you and your mother as god(s), partners to THE ALMIGHTY? Think man. Darn if you are a protestant because you have multiple gods. Darn, too, if you are a catholic, because you have multiple gods. You can win, Aletheia. You are a big time disbeliever; Kafir.

3. Was Muhammad ever bewitched or not? (You say he was kept from being harmed by Satan).

I hope you are not afraid of giving me answers? Smiley

Allah used Muhammad (AS) to show us His might, as well as correcting, educating us. Did some people used incantation and magic on him? Yes. Just like the Jewess in Madina poisoned him. Were they successful and achieved their aims? No. These were human beings. That is different from Jinn, Satan. Now, shall we talk about Jesus, or Moses since I have answered your questions?

Allah says of Muhammad (AS): "He does not do anything of his own desire, except what he has been commanded".

The Bible says of Moses: Yahweh told him to touch the rocks with his staff so that the 12 springs may gush out, giving each nation its own water place. But Moses in disobeying Yahweh struck the rock and because of this, he was not allowed to get to the promised land". (Some kind Yahweh you got there).

The Bible says that Jesus said he was tempted/influenced by Satan, whereby he was being seduced to worship him for a loaf of bread, jump as to commit suicide and see if God not his father will save him, and the whole world will be given to him for some other reason. No one was there, except Jesus who was with Satan. Jesus didnt overcome Satan, from all accounts. He was heard saying aloud; get back from me Satan. Is this worthy of a prophet? And arent you ignorant to call such a one, god, okay God? Are you for real?

nopuqeater <----- Why is it so easy for you to call another person a lair. You just called me that in the thread about being born with original sin, and here now you're doing the same thing again. I had to take time to look thru your posts and that of vedaxcool, and I could count more than 30 times both of you together call people lairs. Is it your best manners?

Holla!

Why is it so easy for you to call another person a lair. You just called me that in the thread about being born with original sin, and here now you're doing the same thing again. I had to take time to look thru your posts and that of vedaxcool, and I could count more than 30 times both of you together call people lairs. Is it your best manners?


the truth hurts doesn't it? If you are engage in lying then your are a liar, so I wonder why you do not want to bear your title gracefully as one has continued to show that lying is koshar unto you. One question for you, is lying a sin in your religion as you are always concocting one lie or the other doing discussions.

Imagine what Muhammad is causing the world, A mass Islamic wedding

Look what christianity has brought upon mankind

Look at some descent biblical teachings

Leviticus 26:29

You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.

Deuteronomy 28:53

Because of the suffering that your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you.

Deuteronomy 28:56-57

The most gentle and sensitive woman among you?so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot?will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For she intends to eat them secretly during the siege and in the distress that your enemy will inflict on you in your cities.

2 Kings 6:29

So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

Jeremiah 19:9

I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on them by the enemies who seek their lives.'

Lamentations 2:20

"Look, O LORD, and consider: Whom have you ever treated like this? Should women eat their offspring, the children they have cared for? Should priest and prophet be killed in the sanctuary of the Lord?

Lamentations 4:10


John Gill says in his commentary,

shall the women eat their fruit; their children, the fruit of their womb, as the Targum; their newborn babes, that hung at their breasts, and were carried in their arms; it seems they did, as was threatened they should, Leviticus 26:29; and so they did at the siege of Samaria, and at the siege of Jerusalem, both by the Chaldeans and the Romans:

[and] children of a span long? or of a hand's breadth; the breadth of the palms of the hand, denoting very little ones: or "children handled," or "swaddled with the hands" (John Gill's Exposition to the Bible, Commentary on Lamentations 2:20, Source)


With their own hands compassionate women have cooked their own children, who became their food when my people were destroyed.

More wonderful teachings of the religion of love?

John Gill says somewhere else,



And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons,, Which was fulfilled at the siege of Samaria, in the times of Joram, 2 Kings 6:29 and at the siege of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, Lamentations 4:10; and though there is no instance of it at that time in the sacred records, the Jews {p} tells us of one Doeg ben Joseph, who died and left a little one with his mother, who was very fond of him; but at this siege slew him with her own hands, and ate him, with respect to which they suppose Jeremiah makes the lamentation, Lamentations 2:2; and of this also there was an instance at the last siege of Jerusalem, by Titus, when a woman, named Mary, of a considerable family, boiled her son, and ate part of him, and the rest was found in her house when the seditious party broke in upon her, as Josephus {q} relates:

and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat; of which, though no instances are given, it is as reasonable to suppose it was done as the former. Some of the Jewish writers {r} think, that in this prediction is included, that children should eat their parents, as well as parents their children, as in Ezekiel 5:10. (John Gill's Exposition to the Bible, Commentary on Leviticus 26:29, Source)



If it wasn't enough that parents were made to eat their children, but the children were also made to eat their parents as we can see in the follow verse,



Ezekiel 5:10

Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds.

some more betiful pix from the religion of love and forgivness?

@Vedaxcool
so those Old Testament quotes and ancient Catholic inquisition is the only life line you still have.
sorry, most of your Islamic brothers are too educated these days and know the difference between the Testaments in Christianity. Look for something more creative. Islam copied and twisted the Old Testament and you can see the result.