frosbel2:
Folk, did you know that BLACKS once ruled the world ? They created empires and kingdoms, built cities and towns and established trade thousands of years before they came into contact with the European Man. They indeed had their own indigenous religion , advanced cultures and well structured societies.They farmed the land and herded cattle for millennia , mined for gold and precious metal and traded with neighbours for other goods and services. The black man was also a mighty hunter, great warrior - fearless , bold yet humble , kind and forbearing.

It was this kind and forbearing trait of the black man, coupled with ignorance that enabled him surrender his birthright to foreigners. Foreigners who introduced their gods into Africa culture and completely overthrew the black mans way of living, destroyed the foundation of his culture, language , and called his religion a death cult.

Ever since these religions came to Africa , the black man keeps turning the left and right cheek for more hot slaps from Arab and white men , to the point that his societies are dysfunctional , chaotic and totally void of true morals. There is mayhem in black Africa from Mauritania to Sudan and all the way down to South Africa. Africans have been battered by the people of God with their Islamic and Christian gods; The black man has been enslaved, colonised and still today is a victim of neoliberal economic policy , which unfairly balances trade in favour of western countries to the detriment of the black man's well being.

Besides , Islam and Christianity have brought us more division as if tribalism was not enough, caused terrible wars that have led to the death of millions upon millions, left behind seeds of hate and paranoia , and created a system of dependency that is not easily broken. Once upon a time, the African man was one with nature, tending to his environment and taking care of both human and beast. Today the African man is against nature, destroying both human and beast.

Some people say that if the white man had not come to Africa we would still be primitive savages worshipping idols. I say this is FALSE. This is the black man yet again looking down on his own culture as inferior and therefore always playing the second fiddle to his superiors.

If we are ever going to move forward, we have to purge our land from these foreign religions and start again to build what we have destroyed.

The ancestors are crying.

Arrant nonsense .

No 1. Blacks never ruled the world.

No 2. We weren't the only set of people that accepted Christianity and Islam . I think you should stop blaming religion for our failures.

raptex:
Lol......I thought this was your family history for a second....
...

Knew it might come across as such. But those who know me know I quote in brown.

A good read, won't you say?

budaatum:
Knew it might come across as such. But those who know me know I quote in brown.
A good read, won't you say?

Yeah

budaatum:

In fact, it is this ignorant blaming of everyone else except ourselves that holds us back in Africa. If we took responsibility for our development we'd have certainly progressed much further!

I Taya o , blame religion , blame white men , blame china man , blame no one else but ourselves

budaatum:

No they didn't! Egypt was the most prosperous nation in antiquity in Africa and it never ruled the world. And the middle east never either, though it did at a time extend as far as North Africa and Europe with Islam.

Where the heck do you guys get your information from, I wonder!?

From Afrocentric loonies.

budaatum:

What was "the then world"? Did Egypt rule China? Did Egypt rule India? Did Egypt rule Europe? Or are you claiming those thriving places which Egypt traded with even, were not part of your "then world"?

The guy is just bloody ignorant . And for bleeps sake, Egyptians were not black

urahara:


The guy is just bloody ignorant . And for bleeps sake, Egyptians were not black

Oh, that's why I'm bombarding him with education lol.

He does not realise that his miseducation is due to his own religion.

urahara:


The guy is just bloody ignorant . And for bleeps sake, Egyptians were not black

Who said Egyptians were black ? Dummy

frosbel2:



Who said Egyptians were black ? Dummy

To even say Egypt is a black nation is not wrong as there are several evidence for it. And to say Egyptians are not black depends on what year. 2000years ago or 1500 years back. The proponent of this argument must provide us which date is talking about, is it right from antiquity or some thousands years back.

frosbel2:



Who said Egyptians were black ? Dummy

Very good

urahara:



Arrant nonsense .

No 1. Blacks never ruled the world.

No 2. We weren't the only set of people that accepted Christianity and Islam . I think you should stop blaming religion for our failures.

well, he may sound too ridiculous to say that, but it seems there are some evidence to suggest it is true.

Mansa Musa, the richest man that has ever lived, gave so much of his wealth to Spain and helped build the Mali Empire and made great trade in Egypt and the Middle East . In actuality, there once was a time Africans enslaved Europeans to gain their wealth. And when Europe was corrupt and filled with famine it was Africa that was prospering.

Ancient Africa was the first to come up with a trade system, and was the first to create a library, where all their knowledge that they have collected over the years soon spread to other continents. Without Egypt math and astronomy would have taken longer to exist. Most of today's math is built off the philosophy's of Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Sudanese (Nubians)even the concept of computation known as abacus was developed in egypt before it expand to china.

vaxx:
well, he may sound too ridiculous to say that, but there seems somr evidence to suggest it is true.

Mansa Musa, the richest man that has ever lived, gave so much of his wealth to Spain and helped build the Mali Empire and made great trade in Egypt and the Middle East . In actuality, there once was a time Africans enslaved Europeans to gain their wealth. And when Europe was corrupt and filled with famine it was Africa that was prospering.

Ancient Africa was the first to come up with a trade system, and was the first to create a library, where all their knowledge that they have collected over the years soon spread to other continents. Without Egypt math and astronomy would have taken longer to exist. Most of today's math is built off the philosophy's of Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Sudanese (Nubians)even the concept of computation known as abacus was developed in egypt before it expand to china.

Thank you for this post !!!

budaatum:

Yes I did. Blaming is not the solution, doing something about it is. And your blame sef is wrong. If we were smart to begin with we would not have been exploited so easily!

we were smart. We were exploited thru guns and force. It is to be noted china, india , America were once exploited nations too. Even the exploiter (British) had once been exploited before

budaatum:
Religious taboos, especially those surrounding priests and titled men, involved a great deal of asceticism. The Igbo expected in their prayers and sacrifices, blessings such as long, healthy, and prosperous lives, and especially children, who were considered the greatest blessing of all. The desire to offer the most precious sacrifice of all led to human sacrifice; slaves were often sacrificed at funerals in order to provide a retinue for the dead man in life to come. There was no shrine to Chukwu, nor were sacrifices made directly to him, but he was understood to be the ultimate receiver of all sacrifices made to the minor deities.

Not all tribes practised human sacrifice. Speaking for my own Igbo group, there is no documentation or evidence of human sacrifice, none - zilch - zero.

Not all tribes practised human sacrifice.

urahara:



Arrant nonsense .

No 1. Blacks never ruled the world.

Blacks NEVER ruled the world within the confines of your historical knowledge and awareness. In your parochial train of thought , the black man was always at 'rock bottom'. I refuse to agree.

You are the type of white man worshipping Nigerian who has facilitated our current state of subservience to the western man , because you agree with him when he says we have always been savages and without the white man we would have perished. This narrative is not only false, it is silly, dishonest and a sign of inferiority complex.

All nations have at one time or the other ruled the THEN WORLD and that includes Africans.

No 2. We weren't the only set of people that accepted Christianity and Islam . I think you should stop blaming religion for our failures.

Yes of course, but we were the only set of people who ABANDONED our way of life WHOLESALE for that of the foreigner. Can you not see that Africans practice some of the most virulent forms of religious fanaticism and terrorism. I was in the North for my NYSC and can tell you from my experience that the reason why it so backward is religious indoctrination. Religion for them supersedes everything in value from education and relationships to employment and economics. I observed that all the small kids were not sent to nursery school but the Islamic school to cram the Quran into their heads instead of teaching them science, mathematics and economics. This will then produce the next set of ignorant Africans and potential fanatics.

Same thing with Christianity. People have died embracing faith healing, millions have been exploited in the name of tithes and offerings, sexual abuse is endemically prevalent in churches - in fact it is a plague. Instead of the younger ones aiming and learning to be innovators, inventors and entrepreneurs they would rather go to Night vigils, role in mud ( Lord Chosens ) and perform some of the most crazy religious rites ever known to modern man.

Tell me how your people can ever progress with this mindset ??

The mindset of 'God Dey', 'God knows best ', 'things shall take care of themselves', 'pray about it' etc.... is not going to take the black man forward.

Religion has to die.

urahara:


The guy is just bloody ignorant . And for bleeps sake, Egyptians were not black

Ancient Egyptians and Sudanese (the pyramid builders) were Blacks.

vaxx:
well, he may sound too ridiculous to say that, but it seems there are some evidence to suggest it is true.

Mansa Musa, the richest man that has ever lived, gave so much of his wealth to Spain and helped build the Mali Empire and made great trade in Egypt and the Middle East . In actuality, there once was a time Africans enslaved Europeans to gain their wealth. And when Europe was corrupt and filled with famine it was Africa that was prospering.

Ancient Africa was the first to come up with a trade system, and was the first to create a library, where all their knowledge that they have collected over the years soon spread to other continents. Without Egypt math and astronomy would have taken longer to exist. Most of today's math is built off the philosophy's of Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Sudanese (Nubians)even the concept of computation known as abacus was developed in egypt before it expand to china.

Thank You Vaxx.

These guys need to read more of history.

I am not sure about blacks been Egyptians but the Kingdom of Kush ( or Nubia ) was a great empire that rivalled Egypt in its day and it was black.

The conqueror has rewritten history and erased much of the black man history. Gradually but surely we are finding out that we are indeed a great people and once ruled empires and kingdoms but are now held back by religious superstitious and blind corrupt leaders.

OpenYourEyes1:

Ancient Egyptians and [b] Sudanese (the pyramid builders)[/bb] were Blacks.

God damn. Where is this coming from?

frosbel2:


Thank You Vaxx.

These guys need to read more of history.

I am not sure about blacks been Egyptians but the Kingdom of Kush ( or Nubia ) was a great empire that rivalled Egypt in its day and it was black.

The conqueror has rewritten history and erased much of the black man history. Gradually but surely we are finding out that we are indeed a great people and once ruled empires and kingdoms but are now held back by religious superstitious and blind corrupt leaders.

You're mixing Blacks with Egyptians. We talking of the black race.


The black race once had wealthy empires which of cause attracted the white folks whom were more crafty and intellectualy more evolved thank those they conquered.
If I remember correctly the OP was discussing probable reasons why the black race hasn't been able to recover from the chaos of war and years of torment in slavery.

I also need clarification on the phrase "rule the world" with respect to the kush Kingdom. Did they govern territories beyond Egypt?? When did Egypt become referred to as the world?

frosbel2:


Blacks NEVER ruled the world within the confines of your historical knowledge and awareness. In your parochial train of thought , the black man was always at 'rock bottom'. I refuse to agree.

You are the type of white man worshipping Nigerian who has facilitated our current state of subservience to the western man , because you agree with him when he says we have always been savages and without the white man we would have perished. This narrative is not only false, it is silly, dishonest and a sign of inferiority complex.

All nations have at one time or the other ruled the THEN WORLD and that includes Africans.



Yes of course, but we were the only set of people who ABANDONED our way of life WHOLESALE for that of the foreigner. Can you not see that Africans practice some of the most virulent forms of religious fanaticism and terrorism. I was in the North for my NYSC and can tell you from my experience that the reason why it so backward is religious indoctrination. Religion for them supersedes everything in value from education and relationships to employment and economics. I observed that all the small kids were not sent to nursery school but the Islamic school to cram the Quran into their heads instead of teaching them science, mathematics and economics. This will then produce the next set of ignorant Africans and potential fanatics.

Same thing with Christianity. People have died embracing faith healing, millions have been exploited in the name of tithes and offerings, sexual abuse is endemically prevalent in churches - in fact it is a plague. Instead of the younger ones aiming and learning to be innovators, inventors and entrepreneurs they would rather go to Night vigils, role in mud ( Lord Chosens ) and perform some of the most crazy religion rites ever known to modern man.

Tell me how your people can ever progress with this mindset ??

The mindset of 'God Dey', 'God knows best ', 'things shall take care of themselves', 'pray about it' etc.... is not going to take the black man forward.

Religion has to die.

All whites are not smart(fact).All whites are not sane(fact).All whites are not progressives(fact).All whites are not educated(fact). All whites are not above poverty(fact).All whites are not objective(fact).But all whites have never had to address themselves using words like 'White Slave/Cursed/White brain,etc. All progressive/super-informed/smart Africans living in Africa should do all they can to encourage African progression without unnecessary remarks.

frosbel2:


Thank You Vaxx.

These guys need to read more of history.

I am not sure about blacks been Egyptians but the Kingdom of Kush ( or Nubia ) was a great empire that rivalled Egypt in its day and it was black.

The conqueror has rewritten history and erased much of the black man history. Gradually but surely we are finding out that we are indeed a great people and once ruled empires and kingdoms but are now held back by religious superstitious and blind corrupt leaders.

By today's racial standards, the ancient Egyptians from pre-dynastic until the Ptolemy era would be considered "black" or "black African" in as much as modern-day sub-Saharan African countries are considered "black nations."

Evidence comes from the first non-African eyewitnesses. All the ancient Greek and Roman scholars described the ancient Egyptians as "black" and compared them to looking exactly like the Ethiopians. From the Greek perspective, Ethiopian equals "black" and/or "black African" or "sub-Saharan Africa." So, to even consider ancient Egyptians to be non-black, one would have to declare the writings of this contemporary historians on Egypt -herodotus, Diodorus Siclus, Aristotle, Apollodorus, Ammianus Marcellinus, Lucian Lycinus null and weak. Since their writting emphasis on the black discription of egypr. I had once posted a Cambridge university museums web link supporting this notion. We do it again, if there is a need.

frosbel2:


Not all tribes practised human sacrifice. Speaking for my own Igbo group, there is no documentation or evidence of human sacrifice, none - zilch - zero.

Not all tribes practised human sacrifice.

There's none for my tribe either. And finding any that the British did is almost impossible. But one would be deluded to think either did not sacrifice humans since its common to rewrite history and erased much from it that we'd rather people don't know happened.

vaxx:
we were smart. We were exploited thru guns and force. It ia to be noted china, india , America were once exploited nations too. Even the exploiter (British) had once been exploited before

I have not argued that we weren't exploited. Please read from the beginning of this thread so that your contribution can be relevant!

The smarter people (or 'cunningly crafty', as frosbel2 termed it) would always exploit the less smart, is my argument here. The Romans were able to exploit the Britons for this reason, as were the Spanish the Aztecs, Britain the Chinese, and Europe most of Africa, and so on and on.

budaatum:

I have not argued that we weren't exploited. Please read from the beginning of this thread so that your contribution can be relevant!

The smarter people (or 'cunningly crafty', as frosbel2 termed it) would always exploit the less smart, is my argument here. The Romans were able to exploit the Britons for this reason, as were the Spanish the Aztecs, Britain the Chinese, and Europe most of Africa, and so on and on.

i will not call that smartness. I will rather called that savagies .( why will you invade a peaceful nations that has nothing to do with you) Africa is by far peaceful compared to the west in antiguity, so there is no need to master the techniques of war to an advanced level that the west had learn.

We were doing well in other fied like economy , medicine and agriculture far better than the west. The record is there. What piss me off is the inability not to pefect the weaponry ideology after we were invaded.

frosbel2:
Blacks NEVER ruled the world within the confines of your historical knowledge and awareness. In your parochial train of thought , the black man was always at 'rock bottom'. I refuse to agree.

No one is saying "the black man was always at 'rock bottom'" ! Stop strawmaning people! Blacks never ruled the world! In fact, no race ever ruled the world! They might have ruled parts of it, but never the entire world, and the entire extent of any particular African empire never even ruled the whole of Africa, not to talk of the entire world!

frosbel2:
You are the type of white man worshipping Nigerian who has facilitated our current state of subservience to the western man , because you agree with him when he says we have always been savages and without the white man we would have perished. This narrative is not only false, it is silly, dishonest and a sign of inferiority complex.

I am a black Nigerian living amongst white folks and manage quite a few of them. Do you think I walk down the road subservient to them, or that I am a savage? When I say "go", they go, and when I say "come", they come, first note that!

Who's saying we have always been savages here?

I suppose sacrificing humans to gods would qualify as savagery, but were the British not savages at some point? Were the Romans not savages at some point? Were the Germanians not savages at some point? How about the Chinese and the Aztecs, all did after all sacrifice humans to their gods at some point, despite the fact that some have rewritten their savage history to hide the fact?

Almost every, if not all, races have savagery in their history if you dig back deep enough, is what we are saying, and no nation has progressed by going backwards. You progress by learning from others and when you refuse to learn from others, you decline! Going back to some mythical past state of unsavagery will only perpetuate savagery! Mao tried it and millions died!

frosbel2:
All nations have at one time or the other ruled the THEN WORLD and that includes Africans.

That's a lie! The Aztecs never ruled the world, despite their greatness! The Chinese, the Indians, the Arabs all never ruled the world despite their greatness! Even the Romans, the Greeks, the Spaniards and the Germans never ruled the world despite their greatness All nations have never at one time ruled the world! In fact, no nation, or race even, has ever ruled the world, and no nation has ever even ruled the whole of Africa! Not Mansa Musa, not the Egyptians, or even the Europeans, for that matter!

frosbel2:
Yes of course, but we were the only set of people who ABANDONED our way of life WHOLESALE for that of the foreigner.

No we weren't "the only set of people who ABANDONED our way of life WHOLESALE for that of the foreigner"! The entire Europe abandoned their barbaric way of life and accepted foreign Christianity! The whole Arab world abandoned their barbaric way of life and accepted foreign Judaism and called it Islam! Britain abandoned its barbaric way of life and adopted foreign Christianity. And most, and if not all of those places are thriving!

frosbel2:
Can you not see that Africans practice some of the most virulent forms of religious fanaticism and terrorism. I was in the North for my NYSC and can tell you from my experience that the reason why it so backward is religious indoctrination. Religion for them supersedes everything in value from education and relationships to employment and economics. I observed that all the small kids were not sent to nursery school but the Islamic school to cram the Quran into their heads instead of teaching them science, mathematics and economics. This will then produce the next set of ignorant Africans and potential fanatics.

Same thing with Christianity. People have died embracing faith healing, millions have been exploited in the name of tithes and offerings, sexual abuse is endemically prevalent in churches - in fact it is a plague. Instead of the younger ones aiming and learning to be innovators, inventors and entrepreneurs they would rather go to Night vigils, role in mud ( Lord Chosens ) and perform some of the most crazy religious rites ever known to modern man.

Whenever I land in Nigeria, I feel like I have travelled back in time, as far as our religious fervour goes, I guess I know my history. All nations were at the fanatic stage when they 'initially' adopt a foreign religion. Do you know that Europe was thrown into the dark ages through its uncritical fanatical acceptance of Christianity and that it was the arrival of Islam that brought them out of its practice of "virulent forms of religious fanaticism and terrorism"? All over Europe in the dark ages, "Jesus was Lord", and God help you if you disagreed. You'd be burnt at the stake for not going to church at one point! But look at Europe today, thriving, despite Church in every parish. I look out my window and there's four already, albeit one has been converted to flats today and another is a mosque. I wonder what they would have been like if they had stuck to their barbaric ways and not accepted foreign ideology!!

frosbel2:
Tell me how your people can ever progress with this mindset ??

The mindset of 'God Dey', 'God knows best ', 'things shall take care of themselves', 'pray about it' etc.... is not going to take the black man forward.

Religion has to die.

As I said, this is where your thread makes sense, but your approach doesn't. You seem to think it is foreign religion that has to die, where I would say it is our religious ideology that has to be killed.

And despite the illusion of having learnt foreign religions and abandoned our own, we in fact have just put new wines in the same old bottles - continued our old way of worship but just changed the names of the gods!

We Nigerians have this same mindset you speak of to all our gods, whether it be Yahweh, Chukwu, Allah or Ogun, and it will indeed only take us backward until we truly take our "god ideology" to the bottom of the river and bash its heads in, and adopt another!

Vaxx started a good point with his post on his thread on the same subject but for some reason has declined to continue it, unfortunately! And forgive me for saying, but you haven't quite shown a capacity for it, yet! Still, subscribe to that thread in case it gets going again. Vaxx does have a lot to teach when he bothers.

Whether we like it or not, the 'another' will be steeped in the scientific ideology, which is foreign (since we would not be reinventing the wheel), and will be a religion, at least so far as we propagate it. Going back to some mythical past is not the solution!

Well, whether one calls it smartness or savagery is really a choice of perspective. I would say we weren't smart enough to resist their deception and savagery. Same difference to me and not the point per se.

As to the record regarding agriculture, medicine and economy, and how well we were doing, one could argue that the records show that ancient Egypt was more advanced than most of Europe, but I can't from that infer that Africa was more advanced than the whole of Europe since Egypt hardly extended over the entire Africa. And prior to the arrival of foreigners amongst my own Yoruba tribe, we were already ravaging ourselves through wars, so I can't say we were peaceful. The battle for supremacy between Obatala and Oduduwa afterall does predate the arrival of Europeans, and is a war going on till today.

Arguing such points though, when much more is at stake is just a way of perpetuating our inability to learn and progress, in my opinion.

vaxx:
i will not call that smartness. I will rather called that savagies .( why will you invade a peaceful nations that has nothing to do with you) Africa is by far peaceful compared to the west in antiguity, so there is no need to master the techniques of war to an advanced level that the west had learn.

We were doing well in other fied like economy , medicine and agriculture far better than the west. The record is there. What piss me off is the inability not to pefect the weaponry ideology after we were invaded.

vaxx:
we were smart. We were exploited thru guns and force.

Cunning craftiness? Superior technology and smartness?

vaxx:
What piss me off is the inability not to perfect the weaponry ideology after we were invaded.

An inability to not even be smart enough to improve, perhaps?

budaatum:

Cunning craftiness? Superior technology and smartness?

i will recommend this book for you. Guns , germs and steel by jered diamond. Pls get a copy.

See Africa was the first to expand and conquer regions as far as India so i will not thoroughly accept superior technology though it is a factor to consider

Kingdoms from Africa expanded from Egypt to the Near East. The kingdom of Aksum expanded to establish governors in Yemen, that was from the 4th century (Abraha the Qur'anic character).

The Almoravid dynasty that occupied almost all southern Europe, and that was very recently (from around the 11th century to around the 14th century) came from Africa. They established themselves in all big European centers of that time and converted lots of Europeans to Islam.

Africa and Africans started exploiting other regions of the world first before anybody else. That situation lasted for millennials but this was much more peaceful compare to the way the European did it.

budaatum:

An inability to not even be smart enough to improve, perhaps?

This i think is our biggest disadvantage, though we have weapons imported to african before the European invaded us. Mansa musa had been dealing with guns trade with the Egyptian ( who are connected with the people of middle east)as far back as 14 century . Why we failed to have advanced weapons producing industry is till what i failed to get.

budaatum:
Well, whether one calls it smartness or savagery is really a choice of perspective. I would say we weren't smart enough to resist their deception and savagery. Same difference to me and not the point per se.

As to the record regarding agriculture, medicine and economy, and how well we were doing, one could argue that the records show that ancient Egypt was more advanced than most of Europe, but I can't from that infer that Africa was more advanced than the whole of Europe since Egypt hardly extended over the entire Africa. And prior to the arrival of foreigners amongst my own Yoruba tribe, we were already ravaging ourselves through wars, so I can't say we were peaceful. The battle for supremacy between Obatala and Oduduwa afterall does predate the arrival of Europeans, and is a war going on till today.

Arguing such points though, when much more is at stake is just a way of perpetuating our inability to learn and progress, in my opinion.

Even if Egypt is excluded, they are still evidence that support Afrrican had a very robust agricultural sytem and a well established economy.Ghana empire which the mordern ghana took her name from for instance is an advance economy state , and same is great Zimbabwe, Ethiopia empire and the rest. Wikipedia has a good article about them.

Yes undoubtedly, Yoruba kingdom historically also invade themselves but comparing our types of war to what Europeans were known for is like comparing a toddler with an adult. We were fighting each other, that is not doubted, but we were more willing to adopt peace.

Obatala kingdom was very peaceful, historically prior to oduduwa reign, ile ife was a very peaceful enviroment with no any recorded single war. Oduduwa was the first to establish millitary goverment. The replacement oduduwa made was not pure war, but a balance between peace and war. This is why Oduduwa's name means "Olu Dudu Iwa," or "Black Lord of Balanced Character."