₦airaland Forum

hahn:
How is that evidence of a creator?

this is why i didn't want to answer your question

KingEbukasBlog:
1. Isn't that God being interested in human affairs ?

2. What do you mean by "sent" ? Do you mean these humans sent by God have pre-ingrained knowledge of God in them and are predestined to teach and reveal this knowledge to human beings ?

I'm not sure of the ideology behind his statement.
But there are also Christian deist, who believe in Jesus values but not his supremacy.

hahn:
Give me one atheistic wishful ideology

Because we do not subcribe to wishful thinking

asserting that this cosmos was not created without evidence is wishful thinking.

hahn:
I am only telling you how I feel about the concept.

Anything can fit into the concept of "higher" power. Some people see owls and say they are witches. Their "assumptions" are so real to them and if one says otherwise you will be asked to "disprove" it.

Just like when I say my poop is proof of higher power. Can you prove it is not?

Do you now understand?

Ok, now you are not even getting it.


Why not do research on Chi energy, before you come again to engage me.

hahn:
Atheists don't really on wishful thinking or seek emotional satisfaction and that is why deists and theists always seem to describe us as sad.

However, I have never been more happy since I stopped dwelling on wishful thinking and fairy tales

Wishful thinking applies to atheism, bro.

And why would a deist say atheists are sad?

And you didn't state how deist are irrational?
Do you know that there are alternatives to Evolution, like Cosmic ancestry and morphic resonance, but all these are hypothesis based on observations and not concluded fact.
Would you then say the adherents to this are irrational, because you've not seen the complete fact?

joseph1013:
Let me give it to you Trump-style: From my perspective, I think the deist is one of two things: confused or irrational.

Deists advocate believing in something while at the same time acknowledging that there’s no evidence for it. And that’s the sign of an irrational or a confused mind.

To be fair, I can see why it is emotionally appealing, but I do know that it is not intellectually satisfying.

Put "atheists" in your statement, and look at your mirror again.

hahn:
So, if I equate "higher" with my poop then I would be right, right?

I'm sure you aren't getting the context, or you just intend to ridicule it no matter what.

hahn:
"Higher" here means "something we don't understand"

Exactly.

KingEbukasBlog:
@ 4kings

God being a separate conscious being , his presence being heaven or the transcendent/ultimate reality , then his divinity permeating through every other thing that exists such as matter .

Exactly. I just want to know the mind of this being, sukkot says he gets message from cosmos(this reality), and that we are part of this cosmos(pantheism), but is this transcendent being and cosmos interdependent on one another?, before i proceed.

joseph1013:
Oh, the deist! What is your theory about an intelligent designer?

Just as the term says, but it is also a non-interventionist.

KingEbukasBlog:
As a separate conscious entity

therefore it's an unlimited "being". no bi so?

KingEbuka, do u want to enter this examination too?

joseph1013:
I don't know how else to say this for you to understand. The Old Earth Creationists are one of the 3000+ sects in Christendom. An overwhelming percentage of Christians and Muslim believe God created human beings and made them lord of all creation.



This thread is about religion, so it should mean that any reference to God, supreme being, or intelligent designer would be in the context of what is written in the two biggest religions I know about.

Let me ask: what intelligent designer do you keep talking about?

Ok, i understand now, since you are talking about religious God.

I was talking about an intelligent designer in a general sense.
I'm a deist BTW.

sukkot:
a being is a limited entity. the alpha and omega encompasses a being

limited how?
Ok, does this "alpha and omega" have a mind of its own?

sukkot:
yup i do. not a being, the BE ALL AND END ALL. THE ALPHA AND OMEGA, BEGINNING AND END

Please, explain what you mean by "not a being"?

joseph1013:
Perhaps you're reading your own interpretation into my simple words. When I say the theist, I refer to Mainstream Theist, the largest groups of Christians and Muslims in the world believe in a super intelligent being who directly oversaw the direct bringing into being of humans.

There are smaller sects in these two religions who believe in anything on the surface of the earth, including their own version of evolution. That's none of my business.

I am telling you that evolution disproves the existence of a creator who directly oversaw the creation of humans as depicted in those two holy books.

I agree that there are more Creationists in the Christendom, but some have no issue with evolution there are usually called "Old Earth Creationist" those who believe the universe was not created in six days. Remember this holy book, is always open to interpretations.

However, from your response, it seems you are equating an "intelligent designer" to the God of two religions because there are popular. Am i wrong?

hahn:
The concept of "higher" is a religious one.

Everything can be proven by natural laws. It just depends on how many natural laws you are aware of

sure, everything can be proven by laws.
but "higher" here just means, "not perceived by mainstream norms".

sukkot:
pantheism as in the presence of GOD in all creation ? YES

Now i'm beginning to get you.

Before i go on, do u believe in a transcendent being beyond this cosmos?

joseph1013:
We know for a fact that many organisms on earth, including mankind, did not come through a creator but through evolution. That in itself contradicts theist's theory about a super intelligent being designing humans.

Not all theists reject Evolution.

The render engine of a 3d simulation system can also be likened to evolution.
And the programmer can be likened to this Intelligent designer.

Or are u implying that evolution disproves a transcendent intelligent being?

sukkot:
I am part of the outer cosmos. our spirits are made of star dusts and the same composition as the stars and galaxies. I am the outer cosmos and the outer cosmos is I

Chineke
So how are a conduit, or is your ideology "pantheistic"?

joseph1013:
The answer to your question will be self-evident when there is evidence for your assumption, don't you think?

Do you have another alternating theory?

hahn:
assumption
əˈsʌm(p)ʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof

That's your answer

Assumption is simply a hypothetical Opinion, just like Evolution.

I agreed that there are assumptions, so try disproving them and stop giving me definitions.

justlove91:
To me the message of Buddha is very simple which is simply how to end humans psychological suffering. To be able to maintain an inner peace or stillness irrespective of what is happening outside is what enlightenment is.
And I don't understand all this connecting with a higher self of a thing.
I don't believe Buddha is a kind of supernatural being because he is enlightened.

I did not say Buddha is a supernatural being.
Buddhist and Pantheist don't believe in God, but are of the idea that a "pervasive energy" is what structures this universe, and tapping into it in the right way result in happiness, basically "the Mystic Logic" or "Mother Nature".
But there differ in some ways, like incorporating samsara, lesser angelic beings(Devas), karma and so on

sukkot:
thats a wrong word. i do not conceive anything. i am privileged to be allowed to tap into that frequency for information. the information is not mine. like i said earlier I am simply a conduit. a vessel. an avatar

Ok Mr.Avatar, have u had any physical experience with this "outer cosmos" apart from receiving messages in your mind?

sukkot:
and i repeat i dont have an idea what other people do including those with psychosis.

when i say they may be right if they are used as conduits of information by the Most High and they may be wrong if they are spewing delusional psycho babble of their own vain opinions

Ok

Do you have any physical experience with this "outer cosmos", aside from what you conceive in your mind?

sukkot:
i didnt say others are wrong. i dont focus on what others are saying which is why i dont read other peoples opinions on spiritual matters. so they may be right and they may be wrong. i am a tunnel visioned person spiritually meaning i get wisdom from the bible and from the outer cosmos. these wisdom are coded in electromagnetic frequencies all around the cosmos and you need to sync in so as to get a sip of that celestial water

No offence though, but a person suffering from psychosis also has this similar opinion in mind.
But before i go on, can you explain why you said this; "so they may be right and they may be wrong."?

joseph1013:
What if! What if the wristwatch found in the desert was not designed but dropped by aliens visiting earth (but they did not design it)?

I have heard the many variants of 'what if' before. But when I use the same 'what if' for creation, believers revolt saying they ARE sure my 'what is' is wrong. How do we reconcile that?

Like juicydiceyjoe indicated, i am talking about the ultimate Designer.
The ultimate "What if" or assumption

sukkot:
scrutinize away bro lol.

Ok, let me start with a simple one.
What makes you right and others(like Otemanuduno) wrong?

sukkot:
INTERPRETATION denotes that it is my own interpretation and opinion. am saying these are not my own opinions. it is what is. i am simply speaking on behalf of the spiritual creators of the cosmos. you can call me a vessel. not the creator of these information but simply a conduit for these information to come through. as such i dont see them as interpretations

and i believe that answers the other question too

Wowww, you are just like Otemanuduno, i don't think i can refute your points now.
Or would u be open to scrutiny?

hahn:
Assumptions, assumptions.

Do you have proof of these assumptions?

Ya there are assumptions, i agree.
Can u disprove them?

hahn:
This "higher reality" is more or less a product of wishful thinking and exists only in the imagination of those who believe in it

This has not been disproved objectively like religion.
Ever heard of Chi, placebo effect, Quantum Mechanics of the human brain, kundalini and the likes?

The "higher reality" i'm referring to here, does not necessarily mean Spiritual or Supernatural in a religious sense, but has to do with Knowledge and reaction of certain events just like Gnosticism.

sukkot:
nah it aint interpretations bro, its reality lol. oh what was the other question ?

You just interpreted, the story of Adam and Eve as nations, and now u saying it's not interpretations. Am i missing something?

Anyways, here is the question:

What do u mean by getting your source from the creator?, every knowledge seeking believer regardless of their denominations, seek to search for God on their own, and come out with different interpretations. Which made me ask KingEbukasBlog how a Christian can discern delusion from the Inspiration of the HolySpirit.