Martinez39:
Lol. I am not saying people can't practice their religion the way they like. Everyone has the right to be a hypocrite. All I am saying is that calling one's self a Muslim or a Christian doesn't mean one is a much Muslim or Christian.

Christians who don't follow the bibles teachings are hypocrites. If someone is a serial killer but says he is a christian, your logic dictates that he is a christian, more precisely a christian serial killer just as the oxymoron "muslim feminist."

Call it whatever you want, be it oxo cubes or hypocrite, but neither means they don't exist now do they? Or do "christian serial killers" not exist?

Don't you agree that 'Muslim' terrorists exist, or are you of the opinion that a Muslim who blows people up is following the Quran and Allah?

budaatum:

Call it whatever you want, be it oxo cubes or hypocrite, but neither means they don't exist now do they? Or do "christian serial killers" not exist?

Don't you agree that 'Muslim' terrorists exist, or are you of the opinion that a Muslim who blows people up is following the Quran and Allah?

So a serial killer is a christian in principle?

Martinez39:
So a serial killer is a christian in principle?

Why, "in principle"? If a person goes to church every Sunday and claims to be a Christian and then it's found out the person serially kills, would the headlines not read "Christian Serial Killer"?

What if the person was a Pastor in a Church and the crime was sexual assault, would you say that person had nothing to do with the Church?

budaatum:

Call it whatever you want, be it oxo cubes or hypocrite, but neither means they don't exist now do they? Or do "christian serial killers" not exist?

Don't you agree that 'Muslim' terrorists exist, or are you of the opinion that a Muslim who blows people up is following the Quran and Allah?

Lol. Ironically, the Jihadist are the abiding Muslims or shall I say the true Muslims.

The fact is people giving themself a label doesn't mean they are what the label describes. In America, there are people who call themselves liberals and progressives but they are fascists and totalitarians who try to suppress free speech by censoring speeches they don't like and labelling it hate speech. They label anyone who disagrees with them as racist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic (when you criticise Islam), bigoted etc. Are these people "Liberals" in principle? You are yet to answer this.

What does it means to be a ballon d'or winner playing for FC Barcelona? It means you have satisfied the following conditions : 1) you have won the FIFA ballon d'or and 2) You play for FC Barcelona. Can I claim and be regarded as a ballon d'or winner playing for FC Barcelona independent or these two conditions? I have the right to claim such but it is factually wrong for me to be regarded as such. Claiming such would be to kid myself. A Muslim feminist is just kidding herself.

To strip away objectivity and claim that people's subjective holds against objectivity and any label they attach to themselves is valid is a gross dishonesty or thoughtlessness on your part. Would you say the schizophrenic who claims he is not a schizophrenic is a healthy schizophrenic? Budaatum, seriously?

budaatum:

Why, "in principle"? If a person goes to church every Sunday and claims to be a Christian and then it's found out the person serially kills, would the headlines not read "Christian Serial Killer"?

What if the person was a Pastor in a Church and the crime was sexual assault, would you say that person had nothing to do with the Church?

"In principle" means what it means. I speak facts and I don't twist the meaning of words in the English language. I have no reason to do so except I am trying to sell bullshit. Is he actually a christian? Most pastorpreneurs don't believe in god but they read the bible, go to church and do many things you would expect from a pastor, are they christians?

This is quite disappointing.

Your argument is mute, martinez, since nowhere did the evidence I presented include self identified subjective Muslim Feminists but those determined to fit the description by third parties who have very clearly identified them as Muslim Feminists, objectively! And no, terrorists are not abiding by Islam, just so you know.

Martinez39:
Lol. Ironically, the Jihadist are the abiding Muslims or shall I say the true Muslims.

The fact is people giving themself a label doesn't mean they are what the label describes. In America, there are people who call themselves liberals and progressives but they are fascists and totalitarians who try to suppress free speech by censoring speeches they don't like and labelling it hate speech. They label anyone who disagrees with them as racist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic (when you criticise Islam), bigoted etc. Are these people "Liberals" in principle? You are yet to answer this.

What does it means to be a ballon d'or winner playing for FC Barcelona? It means you have satisfied the following conditions : 1) you have won the FIFA ballon d'or and 2) You play for FC Barcelona. Can I claim and be regarded as a ballon d'or winner playing for FC Barcelona independent or these two conditions? I have the right to claim such but it is factually wrong for me to be regarded as such. Claiming such would be to kid myself. A Muslim feminist is just kidding herself.

To strip away objectivity and claim that people's subjective holds against objectivity and any label they attach to themselves is valid is a gross dishonesty or thoughtlessness on your part. Would you say the schizophrenic who claims he is not a schizophrenic is a healthy schizophrenic? Budaatum, seriously?

Is this "Disgusting monster" Roman Catholic priest, 75, jailed for abusing children not a Catholic Priest, Martinez39?

budaatum:
Your argument is mute, martinez, since nowhere did the evidence I presented include self identified subjective Muslim Feminists but those determined to fit the description by third parties who have very clearly identified them as Muslim Feminists, objectively! And no, terrorists are not abiding by Islam, just so you know.


Is this "Disgusting monster" Roman Catholic priest, 75, jailed for abusing children not a Catholic Priest, Martinez39?

They fit the third parties' description? Does that make being a Muslim feminist possible in principle?

Martinez39:
"I speak facts and I don't twist the meaning of words in the English language. I have no reason to do so except I am trying to sell bullshit.

This is quite disappointing.

Actually, you do not speak facts! You showed this by disregarding facts and concerning yourself with thought. And you do twist words as you've shown by twisting the meaning of words on this thread.

I put it to you that you are trying to sell bullshit and buda ain't buying!

Martinez39:
They fit the third parties' description? Does that make being a Muslim feminist possible in principle?

It does obviously make it possibly for wiki and quite a number of others. I guess not for you though, since you are a third party.

I'm smh at you Martinez39!

budaatum:

Actually, you do not speak facts! You showed this by disregarding facts and concerning yourself with thought. And you do twist words as you've shown by twisting the meaning of words on this thread.

I put it to you that you are trying to sell bullshit and buda ain't buying!

A third party description is not necessarily reality. You should google the meaning of "in principle." No one can be a Muslim feminist in principle. People are free to kid themselves by calling themselves Muslim feminists but it doesn't make them that. A third party calling them Muslim feminists doesn't mean that is what they are or it is possible to be a Muslim feminist.

The reason why you see a group going about calling themselves muslim feminists is because they have the right to kid themselves. Budaatum, as from today, I am now a ballon d'or winner who plays for FC Barcelona. People, according to you, can be Muslims independent of the quran therefore I can be a ballon d'or winner who plays for FC Barcelona independent of the following : 1) winning the FIFA ballon d'or and 2) playing for FC Barcelona. Please acknowledge that.

SMH.

budaatum:

It does obviously make it possibly for wiki and quite a number of others. I guess not for you though, since you are a third party.

I'm smh at you Martinez39!

Okay then. I see it's you picking the third party you like. Anyway, good night and sound sleep to buda.

Martinez39:
I am now a ballon d'or winner who plays for FC Barcelona. People, according to you, can be Muslims independent of the quran therefore I can be a ballon d'or winner who plays for FC Barcelona independent of the following : 1) winning the FIFA ballon d'or and 2) playing for FC Barcelona. Please acknowledge that.

SMH.

Show us where I said you can be a "ballon d'or winner who plays for FC Barcelona independent of the following : 1) winning the FIFA ballon d'or and 2) playing for FC Barcelona"?

budaatum:

Show us where I said you can be a "ballon d'or winner who plays for FC Barcelona independent of the following : 1) winning the FIFA ballon d'or and 2) playing for FC Barcelona"?

good night.

Martinez39:
Okay then. I see it's you picking the third party you like. Anyway, good night and sound sleep to buda.

When you dig up a more credible third party than mine, Martinez39, do let us know so we all can pick it please.

budaatum:

We are human beings, martinez, imperfect human beings capable of choosing what we want and discarding what we do not want. Besides, holy books are usually big books with lots of contradictions therein. What makes you think different people get different messages from different bits of it?

Have you never met a Christian who slaps first instead of waiting to be slapped then turning the other cheek, or one who appears to love their God but hates their neighbours? Are such people not being Christians independent of the Bible? What makes you think Muslims can't do the same?

Tatime, you will say such people are not Christians, and I agree with you. However, they would be called Christians by themselves and very many on here. In fact, most of us are such people, sinful, yet, Christians. Because, by the Grace of God (GoG) of course.

I want to promise that's my last GoG, but I did promise to yell from the rooftops if got so see it as my penance for saying there was no God.

budaatum:

Tatime, you will say such people are not Christians, and I agree with you. However, they would be called Christians by themselves and very many on here. In fact, most of us are such people, sinful, yet, Christians. Because, by the Grace of God (GoG) of course.

I want to promise that's my last GoG, but I did promise to yell from the rooftops if got so see it as my penance for saying there was no God.

Christians - sinners with a sin permit (gOg)

HappyPagan:

Christians - sinners with a sin permit (gOg)

Spot on. Though, not only Christians have it. And its not exactly a permit, but humans recognising their frailty and inability to live up to the ideal, and however little we do meet up, which isn't much, is not even by our own effort which is tiny and got us nowhere, but for GoG.

I see you can't sleep! Try this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdHV4EeNxwk

In an era of heightened hostility towards Muslims, it's worth repeating that women from Islamic regions can hold positions of power and work and live modern lives This week, in the aftermath of the devastating terrorist attack on a mosque in New Zealand, five Birmingham mosques have been vandalised. Clearly, Britain and the rest of the west’s scepticism of Islam has grown considerably in recent years. Sharia (”the way” in Arabic), is interpreted in many ways around the world.

In some cases, it is used in undeniably oppressive ways, yet my conversations with these women demonstrate a more complex reality. It should go without saying, but women of Islamic republics are educated, hold positions of power, work and live modern lives. Freedom from religion is not necessarily the antidote to oppression. Instead, we should be encouraging the ways in which freedom of religion can overcome inequality. These women, like countless others we don’t always hear from, are helping along the growing understanding that not all women of Islamic republics are silent.

How women from Islamic republics fight gender inequality all over the world

budaatum:
In an era of heightened hostility towards Muslims, it's worth repeating that women from Islamic regions can hold positions of power and work and live modern lives This week, in the aftermath of the devastating terrorist attack on a mosque in New Zealand, five Birmingham mosques have been vandalised. Clearly, Britain and the rest of the west’s scepticism of Islam has grown considerably in recent years. Sharia (”the way” in Arabic), is interpreted in many ways around the world.

In some cases, it is used in undeniably oppressive ways, yet my conversations with these women demonstrate a more complex reality. It should go without saying, but women of Islamic republics are educated, hold positions of power, work and live modern lives. Freedom from religion is not necessarily the antidote to oppression. Instead, we should be encouraging the ways in which freedom of religion can overcome inequality. These women, like countless others we don’t always hear from, are helping along the growing understanding that not all women of Islamic republics are silent.

How women from Islamic republics fight gender inequality all over the world

How is this relevant to the topic? No one said muslim women are oppressed. This topic was to discuss if being a Muslim feminist is possible in principle.

Survivors of sexual abuse and harassment are sharing their experiences on social media, using the #ArewaMeToo hashtag.
The #MeToo movement has reached Muslim-majority northern Nigeria

budaatum:
Survivors of sexual abuse and harassment are sharing their experiences on social media, using the #ArewaMeToo hashtag.
The #MeToo movement has reached Muslim-majority northern Nigeria

This is a welcome development. This country doesn't take rape seriously. If you rape someone in this country, you can bail your self out ₦500,000 . Hope they can protest against this nonsensical law. As I have said, this is a welcome development but they should not start falsely accusing boys of rape and sending them to jail like they do in USA and Europe.

Martinez39:
This is a welcome development. This country doesn't take rape seriously. If you rape someone in this country, you can bail your self out ₦500,000 . Hope they can protest against this nonsensical law. As I have said, this is a welcome development but they should not start falsely accusing boys of rape and sending them to jail like they do in USA and Europe.

Can we call them Muslims and feminists, 39?

D, a four sided triangle because the rest of the things mentioned are animate and even mammals. However all of them are odd, but the odd of the odds is D.

budaatum:

Can we call them Muslims and feminists, 39?

Helping sexual assault victims is not necessarily feminism or maybe it is. One cannot be a muslim feminist in principle. They can only go as far as labelling themselves "muslim feminist" but in principle, being a muslim feminist is impossible. Muslim feminism, just like rational irrational numbers, is impossible.

Perhaps we can redefine the word "muslim" to accommodate such.

OtemAtum:
D, a four sided triangle because the rest of the things mentioned are animate and even mammals. However all of them are odd, but the odd of the odds is D.

longest time bro.

Martinez39:
longest time bro.

Thanks bro. I was on a sabbatical. Now I'm back. Guess I've missed a lot.

Martinez39:
Helping sexual assault victims is not necessarily feminism or maybe it is. One cannot be a muslim feminist in principle. They can only go as far as labelling themselves "muslim feminist" but in principle, being a muslim feminist is impossible. Muslim feminism, just like rational irrational numbers, is impossible.

Perhaps we can redefine the word "muslim" to accommodate such.

So, it is "in principle", your principle, that Muslim feminists can not exist?

I think I get you now 39, your theist logic! You close your eyes and claim what you see not exists not while cooking up imaginary in principles in your head instead!

Martinez39:

Perhaps we can redefine the word "muslim" to accommodate such.

We already did, 39. Feminist Muslim!

budaatum:

So, it is "in principle", your principle, that Muslim feminists can not exist?

I think I get you now 39, your theist logic! You close your eyes and claim what you see not exists not while cooking up imaginary in principles in your head instead!

Use a dictionary or the Google search engine to learn the meaning of the phrase "in principle."

Martinez39:
Use a dictionary or the Google search engine to learn the meaning of the phrase "in principle."

In who's "principle", 39?

budaatum:

In who's "principle", 39?

What? You just saw the meaning of the phrase and you are still asking "in who's 'principle'?" Let me make it easy for you since you are struggling with the phrase "in principle" despite seeing it on google. Given the meaning of the words "Islam," "Muslim," "feminism" and "feminist" in the English language, it is not theoretically or logically possible to be a muslim feminist just as it not possible to have a four side triangle.

To have both, you must redefine the words "muslim" and "four" to accommodate such. This room for redefining is irrational because I could redefine the word "atheist" to mean a christian mathematician and concluded that there are christian atheists where as it is impossible to simultaneously be an atheist and a christian. This is basically what muslim feminists are doing. I could also redefine any word in the English language to mean anything I want.

So are we speaking English or not? Have you redefined the word "muslim"?

Martinez39:
What? You just saw the meaning of the phrase and you are still asking "in who's 'principle'?" Let me make it easy for you since you are struggling with the phrase "in principle" despite seeing it on google. Given the meaning of the words "Islam," "Muslim," "feminism" and "feminist" in the English language, it is not theoretically or logically possible to be a muslim feminist just as it not possible to have a four side triangle.

I disagree that "feminist muslim" is as impossible as a four sided triangle, Martinez39. For starts, a triangle is very very specifically "a plane figure with three straight sides and three angles that equal 180 degrees". It's so specific you'd never ever say the number of sides a triangle has.

You want to give me a definition of feminist and muslim that specific please?

Martinez39:
To have both, you must redefine the words "muslim" and "four" to accommodate such.

Why would I want to complicate simple things when I can just google? Let me show you!

Muslim, a person who professes an Abrahamic monotheistic religion teaching that there is only one God, and that Muhammad is the messenger of God.

Feminist, a person who practises feminism, which is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social gender equality.

Martinez39:

This room for redefining is irrational because I could redefine the word "atheist" to mean a christian mathematician and concluded that there are christian atheists where as it is impossible to simultaneously be an atheist and a christian.

I wish you would just slow down a little Martinez39. You go so fast you leave me behind! Abeg. You know I'm not smart like you, biko.

Yes, it is irrational to "redefine atheist to mean Christian mathematician". Unless your name were google, perhaps, and even then! If you show credible data to show why you define so, then I guess it might stand on that authority. But if by redefining you mean making it up in your head, yes, that is very irrational indeed!

Martinez39:
This is basically what muslim feminists are doing. I could also redefine any word in the English language to mean anything I want.

Did you seriously just miss the fact that the phrase "muslim feminist" is not a "word" but, two words, Martinez39?

Can you tell me please if English Language is very very specifically not "the joining of any words to mean anything I want"? About "you could" when that's what is done!

Martinez39:
So are we speaking English or not? Have you redefined the word "muslim"?

I'm speaking English Language where two words is a phrase and not a "a word". Are you, 39? And I'm not talking about "muslim"!

Muslim Feminist, a person who professes that there is only one God, and that Muhammad is the messenger of God and practises in a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that aim to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social gender equality.

Join words together to mean what I say, then find authority to show that I'm not making it up in my head, 39, in English language.