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Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 7:32pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:You are not a sincere fellow.. how did i imply that Jesus ascended to heaven before his death reading all through my posts?? May the good God forgive you for twisting the words of His son to suit your unscriptural teaching. 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Janosky: 7:36pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
shadeyinka: shadeyinka:The truth MUST prevail ..... https://biblehub.com/topical/g/ gehenna.htm Easton's Bible Dictionary (originally Ge bene Hinnom; i.e., "the valley of the sons of Hinnom" , a deep, narrow glen to the south of Jerusalem, where the idolatrous Jews offered their children in sacrifice to Molech ( 2 Chronicles 28:3 ; 33:6 ; Jeremiah 7:31 ; 19:2 -6). This valley afterwards became the common receptacle for all the refuse of the city. Here the dead bodies of animals and of criminals, and all kinds of filth, were cast and consumed by fire kept always burning. It thus in process of time became the image of the place of everlasting destruction. In this sense it is used by our Lord in Matthew 5:22 ,29, 30; 10:28 ; 18:9 ; 23:15 , 33; Mark 9:43 ,45,47; Luke 12:5 . In these passages, and also in JAMES 3:6 , the word is uniformly rendered "hell," the Revised Version placing "Gehenna" in the margin. Corpses of dead criminals and filth were thrown into Gehenna, any corpse at the periphery not destroyed by fire , worms feasted on the decomposed corpses.. 2**) James3:16 the word mistranslated as "hell" is actually "Gehenna". James 3:16 compares the destructive power of Gehenna to the destructive effects of unbridled , untamed human tongue. Gehenna existed during the time of Jesus, it's not a fictional expression. Mr Shadeyinka ,quit deceiving yourself. 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 8:16pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Janosky:Sometimes I wonder if it is lack of Intelligence or a deliberate dumbness so that your foolish Doctrines can sail the waters. Check your reply against my quotes you presented:
All you did was validate what I have said! Next time read well before answering posts! Don't just do copy-paste of memorizations of prefabricated answers and responses your organisation gave you See how you avoided the questions posted only to dump prefabricated answers copied from the net. If you had done it with a little thinking it would have served you but Alas! |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Janosky: 8:56pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
[color=#000099][/color] shadeyinka:Shadeyinka says Jozzy "is referring to corpse being thrown there (Gehenna)". Even your (Jozzy's) literal interpretation fail". ** Janosky reply Shadeyinka thus: The truth MUST prevail ..... https://biblehub.com/topical/g/ gehenna.htm Easton's Bible Dictionary Matthew 5:22 ,29, 30; 10:28 ; 18:9 ; 23:15 , 33; Mark 9:43 ,45,47; Luke 12:5 . In these passages, and also in JAMES 3:6 , the word is uniformly rendered "hell," the Revised Version placing "Gehenna" in the margin." 1**) I said "Corpses of dead criminals and filth and filth were thrown into Gehenna, any corpse at the periphery not destroyed by fire , worms feasted on the decomposed corpses.. 2**) James3:16 the word mistranslated as "hell" is actually "Gehenna". James 3:16 compares the destructive power of Gehenna to the destructive effects of unbridled , untamed human tongue. Gehenna existed during the time of Jesus, it's not a fictional expression. Mr Shadeyinka ,quit deceiving yourself. shadeyinka:My statement validates which your post?. Your LIE that your Gehenna is hellfire? Shadeyinka ,singing a new discordant tune. But when Jozzy says that corpses were thrown in Gehenna, you're lying that his "literal interpretation fails". Your words "Do you think worms survive in the physical literal gehenna? Think!" Your rich man is alive in hellfire but no living being was thrown into Gehenna, your hellfire. Issorait !! That's proof of your Gehenna is hellfire fixation. 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 9:22pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4: Why just his physical body, you should also ask what happened to his spirit and soul? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 10:58pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Janosky:How you don't see your ignorance is a marvel to me! Literal Gehenna is a place where dead corpse were thrown The Gehenna Jesus was talking about is where Living beings are thrown. That is why it is translated hell. Of course, you think when a person dies his conciousness extinguishes. Unfortunately, Jesus says no! Lazarus and the rich man is an example. The Scripture below is a testimony against you Rev 6:9-11: "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brothers, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." If the dead corpse know nothing, then it is foolishness to warn him of being thrown into Literal Gehenna. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Dafemich(m): 4:50am On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka:Good morning sir. I opened a thread and I called it nairaland prayer thread. I want us to come together in nairaland and pray for the church and other Christian. Let us pray against every vice of the devil. Please go through it and let me know what you think |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 3:25pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
OLAADEGBU: No, its a punch and a disgrace to you. do you believe physical bodies are in hell like it happen to the rich man ? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 3:27pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka: But the rich man went with his physical body, the mockery is on you, How many people are in hellfire with there physical bodies ? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 3:29pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Sheol mean Hades , agree ? Is the rich man in Hades or Gehenna ? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 3:31pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Jesus therefore proved Gehenna isn't hellfire, No living being are thrown there but unconscious bodies. No wonder Jesus make reference to body in Gehenna Does Body go to your fictional hell ? That should have restored your factory setting that Jesus didn't have such in mind. Worms? Lolzzzzzz, are this worms spirit or physical ? Because I know worms exist in Gehenna and they are physical fleshly worms, Do worms exist in your fiction hell ? Cc: Barristter07 come and see something 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 3:42pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI: So he didn't RETURN TO GOD ? Eccl 12:7 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 3:46pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka: You are just too Du.ll At Mark 9:42-48 Jesus picture Physical bodies in Gehenna, But since you said it means Hell Justify your assertion MR MAN! Do people in hell presently have their two Human hands and feet in hell ? 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 3:51pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka: I was mocking you actually, If the rich man has his physical body with tongue in hell, Do you agree those in hell presently have their physical bodies ? How many corpse have disappeared from mortuary to hell ?
The literal Gehenna destroys, same way the tongue destroys a persons reputation. The key word is " Destroy " . that's why James use that comparison, Your sense didn't saw that James was making a comparison between tongue and Gehenna ? your translation says " it is set on fire of hell " Do people's tongue go to hell like the rich man ? 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:06pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4: What you should be asking yourself is what happened to the rich man's consciousness when he physically died. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 4:08pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
OLAADEGBU: He disappeared with his physical body into Hellfire , Don't you know ? 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 4:14pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
DeOTR: Shadeyinka is not learned biblically . |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:16pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4: The physical body laid in the grave (Sheol) while the spirit body went to Hades/Gehenna. The spirit body takes up the same shape of the physical body and its senses are more real. I am beginning to teach you how to sing now please don't get annoyed. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 4:16pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Jesus mention Body in Gehenna, he was referring to the corpses thrown there . You who doesn't have sense, are human body in hellfire now ? 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 4:18pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
OLAADEGBU: Haywizzy007 , Barristter07 , janosky Sheol is the same as Hades !!! Olaadegbu, you are a disgrace . That's not even a spiritual body, a spiritual body doesn't taste PHYSICAL water . its a physical body. You are now in a big trouble 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:05pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4: I did not say spiritual body. I said spirit body, there is a difference. The word hell here in the Greek is called Hades, it means "the unseen world." "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom" (Luke 16:23). Sinners go to a place of conscious torment where they know each other after death. You can see from this verse that the rich man did not lose his identity after death he could recognise Abraham and Lazarus. Death is separation, it neither means extinction nor annihilation as you have been led to believe. There is a second death, which is spiritual death and it means eternal separation from God. At physical death the body becomes lifeless because the person's spirit has moved out. The body is put into the grave and the elements return to the dust. "...for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Genesis 3:19). This is further proof that death means separation. It will help us to understand that Sheol or Hades as you will like to call it is actually divided into 2 compartments: The first one is paradise (Abraham's Bosom) and the other is the place of torment described above. Paradise was emptied when our Lord Jesus Christ took the OT believers to heaven. The place of torment will deliver up the lost for judgment at the Great White Throne. All those who stand in judgment are lost and will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. That is the difference between eternal life and eternal death (separation). I hope that I have not succeeded in annoying you. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 6:29pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:You will note that even though these people were dead, they still had their bodies (spiritual bodies) for which white robes were given to them. If the Rich man was BURIED according to Jesus, I presume that JWs came to exhume the corpse so that he can be physically thrown into gehenna!? SMH! Rev 6:9-11: "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brothers, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Can you explain in the Scripture above how the dead unconscious people spoke and were given White robes? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 6:31pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:Don't answer questions with another question: I said, Do You mean to say Sheol mean Gehenna? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 6:43pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:So according to you, Jesus was referring to the physical gehenna. Read the Scripture again: Mar 9:43-48: "And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Read this and comprehend! 1. Jesus was comparing the kingdom of God with the judgement of Hell 2. If Jesus was speaking about the literal gehenna, this Scripture wouldn't make any sense 3. If Jesus was was speaking about live people being thrown into hell. How satan has so blinded you.!? Is it dead unconscious people who enter heaven? If it is then, we can expect dead unconscious people who enter hell? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 6:45pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:See, I asked you a simple question and your tongue is tied as you don't have an answer. The best you can do is ask another question. Please answer my question, then I'll gladly answer yours. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 6:49pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:You believe that Jesus had a spiritual body and yet you are so dumb that you insist that a man has only physical bodies. If Jesus stated that the rich man was buried, how come he could still speak and feel torment? When satan makes people blind, you wonder the depth of such blindness! |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 6:54pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:The word used for grave in 1 Cor 15:55 is NOT hades, it is
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Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 6:55pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:Your Reference Quote DeOTR: The word used for grave in 1 Cor 15:55 is NOT hades, it is θάνατε (thanate) literally "O death"
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Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 7:10pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
Jozzy4:That's exactly why you couldn't explain what happened to Jesus's physical body after He resurrected! Yet, as you claim: He was moving about with his spiritual body. Jesus referring to corpses? Let me put the verse again as you wish then interprete what Jesus was teaching. shadeyinka:As you claimed: Jesus is saying: It is better that your corpse enter into life maimed than your corpse go into the municipal refuse dump with your two hands complete!! I marvel at your blindness! |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by DeOTR: 8:31pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
@shadeyinka You must understand that souls crying out to God under the alter are not literal souls. How about blood crying out to God from the ground? The whole book of Revelation is loaded with symbolic languages. Those who died and are "crying out" to God under the altar symbolically shows John in prophetic vision, telling us that God WILL repay for the actions of the wicked. The dead know nothing, as Ecclesiastes 9:5 confirms. Notice what the Bible says about the rich man. It says that he was "buried and being in HELL lifted up his eyes". Do you see the clear connection between buried and hell. Jesus is linking the two and saying that the rich man IN HIS GRAVE IS IN HELL. And don't forget that this passage is a parable depicting the Pharisees and the Gentiles? It has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus teaching immortal souls doctrine. What is Man Exactly? How Was he Created by God? Genesis 2:7 (NKJV)...'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.' Genesis 2:7 (KJV) ...'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.' Notice we became living souls, not given souls? You also noticed living souls mean living beings? If we're living souls, doesn't that tell you there's nothing like immortal souls that outlive man? Can a soul die? Revelation 16:3 ...'And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.' ... The NKJV says "living creature". Ezekiel 18:20 ...'The soul who sins shall die.' From that verse in Genesis, the equation of life is: Dust (body) + breath of life (spirit) = Man/Soul. And what happens when we die? Ecclesiastes 12:7 ...'Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.' Do the scriptures actually say that all righteous people instantly "go to Heaven" when they die? John 5:28,29 ...'Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.' Even David has not ascended into heaven.. Acts 2:29,34 ...'Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day ... For David did not ascend into the heavens.' How does the Bible view death? Job 14:10-12 ...'But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.' ... This is a pretty clear Bible verse about death and what happens when we die. Where is man after the Spirit of God leaves him? He returns to the ground and doesn't arise until when? "till the heavens be no more". When will the heavens be no more? When Christ Jesus returns at the second coming and resurrects His people. Now Job describes death in an interesting way. He says that we will "sleep" when we die. Who else taught the meaning of death in that way? JESUS!! Matthew 9:24 ...'He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.' John 11:11-14 ...'These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.' So Jesus spoke of death as sleeping. Not about going to heaven or hell when we die, but sleeping. And until when do we sleep in the grave? Martha knew the answer ... John 11:23-24 ...'Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.' ... The dust of the earth, or grave, is our home until the resurrection at the second coming of Christ Jesus. The prophet Daniel also confirmed this Bible truth ... Daniel 12:2 ...'And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.' Matthew 27:52 ...'And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.' ... At Jesus' resurrection He gave gifts to some and resurrected them also from the dead. But what were they doing before they were resurrected by Jesus? They were sleeping. In other words they were in their graves not knowing anything, awaiting the resurrection. It's even simple logic. You die and you decompose. The Bible truth is as simple as ABC. The earlier we accept it the better. The whole point of the death and resurrection of Jesus is defeated if people don't actually died as you believe. Why will Jesus come back again if everyone receives their rewards right after death? What's special about Jesus's death and resurrection if we can all live on just immediately after we die? Who are those that would be raised up to meet Jesus in the sky from their graves at the last trump if they're already in heaven? See! Satan is a confusionist and yes, immortal soul doctrine has root in paganism. 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by DeOTR: 8:38pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
shadeyinka:Common man! It's a common knowledge that the original place known as Gehenna was a refuse dump outside Jerusalem. Its use to depict the Lake fire is never a mistake, so you can't replace Gehenna with "refuse dump" in this context because it's symbolic. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 10:02pm On Jun 27, 2019 |
DeOTR:More power bro, you nailed it |
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