Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri - Religion (10) - Nairaland
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Pastor Chris Oyakhilome: Woman Was Not God's Original Idea (video) / Messi Is Not “god” – Pope Francis / Pastor Adeboye: Stop Using My Pictures On Souvenirs, I Am Not God (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by hupernikao: 9:46am On Jan 03, 2020 |
Janosky: Morning. Firstly, i wouldn't expect you to be dropping links/video for me to be reading here without you providing your own explanations. Links can be a reference after you have done thorough explanation by yourself. I count as lazy folks who argue without any thorough or in-depth knowledge or explanation of what they are arguing on but dropping links/video, and i usually dont take them serious. I believe this is a one-time experience with you  Secondly, i will still take you based on the link you post (though, using JW links as a prove of explaining Greek text is shallow in itself, i have never come across or know, or read about any renowned Greek scholars among JW). Still going by your link, which i dont think you read yourself, you will know that the first set of paragraphs agreed with all i have been saying here and disprove your assertion. I will post/quote that part here.
The bold is all i have been telling you for over 9 pages (~120 post) of this thread. I believe your link should help you settle that now. Thirdly, your link moved further to explain the definite article (the) issue which you have been trying to induced into this thread and i see that as not the main reason for this thread, mainly because i dont want you to cloud the true interpretation of Theon/Theos and not about issue of Trinity or John 1:1 itself. I am sure i have done a good work on Greek text Theon/Theos already except you have chosen to be adamant about it. So, it should be clear to you that i am in no way hiding from your "Tov" explanation, its not just part of discussion. Having said that, if you insist on discussing the issue of definite article here (the/Tov), go ahead i am open to your explanation and will be ready to give you a detailed correction of your assertion. But PLEASEEEEEEEE, be ready to explain and explain well, not using links or other people's work without providing your detailed knowledge of study/explanation well. You will be a lazy Bible student if you do so and will implies you only go for snippet knowledge not proper understanding of the origin/original writing of the scriptures. Remember 2 Tim 2:15
A proper study birth a proper "dividing rightly". The word STUDY is from the Greek text spoudazō, which means to give diligence, to labour, to make effort. Not to do a lazy skim, or scan, or browse through. The reason he used the word "rightly dividing", as diligent study will result to proper interpretation. The word RIGHTLY DIVIDING is from the Greek text orthotomeō, from "ortho (straight), it simply means to proceed on straight paths, hold a straight course, that is doing it right and correctly, just as a tailor cut a yard of cloth straight/aright. The fact that Paul used "rightly dividing" means if we dont do proper study and be lazy and unserious, we can "wrongly divide". This is what you found with many Christians today and has birth many into confusion, unanswered questions, myths, even to denying God and the scriptures. Hence, I will be open to your explanation here on your argument if you provide a convincing, diligent and scholarly approach to explaining the scriptures. Now and Lastly, kindly present your argument on the Tov usage on Theon/Theos issue, i want to clearly know where you stand and your interpretation across board. Expect my response afterwards. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 3:21pm On Jan 03, 2020 |
hupernikao:https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp- e/1977368 *Questions From Readers.** In John 1:1 the term “god” is applied to both the Father and the Son, the Word. But in the Greek text the word for “god” (theos ) is written differently in these two instances. Why? What does it mean? To a person unfamiliar with the Greek language it might seem that there is a significance indicated by the fact that first the word is spelled theon and next theos. But the difference is simply a matter of complying with the Greek grammatical case used. John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God [τὸν θεὸν, literally, the god], and the Word was a god [θεὸς].” Greek has five cases—nominative, genitive, dative, accusative and vocative. How a word is spelled can vary depending on the case in which it is used. Take, as an example, the definite article “the.” In the masculine gender “the” is respectively written in the first four of these cases: ὁ, τοῦ, τῷ, τὸν, in the singular number. Similarly, in John 1:1 the word theos is spelled in accord with the particular case being employed. In the first instance (“the Word was with God”) it is in the accusative case and thus is spelled θεὸν But in the second occurrence it is in the nominative case, and so it is spelled θεὸς. The spelling of theos does not of itself indicate the person or position of the one designated, as 2 Corinthians 4:4, 6 illustrates. In 2 Co 4 verse four Satan is identified as θεὸς, “the god of this system of things,” and in 2 Co 4 verse six the Creator is designated θεὸς. The spelling is theos in both verses, for the nominative case is used in each. So the fact that theos is spelled differently in its two occurrences in John 1:1 does not show any difference in meaning; “god” is the meaning in both instances. What is interesting is that in John 1:1 the definite article ὁ [ ho ] is not used in front of theos when applied to the Son, the Word. Regarding this point the noted Bible translator William Barclay writes: “Now normally, except for special reasons, Greek nouns always have the definite article in front of them, . . . When a Greek noun has not got the article in front of it, it becomes rather a description than an identification, and has the character of an adjective rather than of a noun. We can see exactly the same in English. If I say: ‘James is the man’, then I identify James with some definite man whom I have in mind; but, if I say: ‘James is man’, then I am simply describing James as human, and the word man has become a description and not an identification. If John had said ho theos ēn ho logos, using a definite article in front of both nouns, then he would definitely have identified the logos [the Word] with God, but because he has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description, and more of an adjective than a noun. The translation then becomes, to put it rather clumsily, ‘The Word was in the same class as God, belonged to the same order of being as God ‘. . . . John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.”— Many Witnesses, One Lord (1963), pages 23, 24. Hence, in both their translations Dr. Edgar J. Goodspeed and Dr. James Moffatt render the phrase as, “the Word [or Logos] was divine.” This reflects the fine distinction in wording that the apostle John used, a distinction that accords with the fact that Jesus was not equal in power and eternity with the Father but was the created Son of the Father. ( 1 Cor. 11:3 ) The New World Translation accurately renders the Joh 1 verse 1 : “In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” ************* i) I have never said that Theos means a lesser God... never!! *ii) I have always said "Tov theon" in the Greek scriptures was never used as reference to Jesus.. (I gave the scriptural references/ proof. https://biblehub.com/greek/theon_2316.htm ***iii) You claimed the Word (theos) & the God (tov theon) is the same personality. We hold diverse views.. **iv) Is there monopoly of knowledge of Greek language accessible to a select few like 'hupernikao'? This link reflects my conviction and position on this subject, nothing more to add or subtract. Both links sufficiently address the subject as far as Greek John 1:1 is concerned. Shalom. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 3:50pm On Jan 03, 2020 |
hupernikao: Nobody is denying God here. However, it's very wrong to claim that Jesus Christ is Almighty God himself ,because several passages of the holy Scriptures itself has been manipulated & altered to support such claim. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp- e/1001060096 ** Jesus—A Godlike One; Divine Joh 1:1 —“and the Word was a god (godlike; divine)” Gr., καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος ( kai the·osʹ en ho loʹgos ) 1808 “and the word was a god” The New Testament, in An Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London. 1864 “and a god was the Word” The Emphatic Diaglott (J21, interlinear reading), by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London. 1935 “and the Word was divine” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed, Chicago. 1950 “and the Word was a god” New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, Brooklyn. 1975 “and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word” * Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany. 1978 “and godlike sort was the Logos” * Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin. 1979 “and a god was the Logos” * Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Jürgen Becker, Würzburg, Germany. These translations use such words as “a god,” “divine” or “godlike” because the Greek word θεός ( the·osʹ ) is a singular predicate noun occurring before the verb and is not preceded by the definite article. This is an anarthrous the·osʹ . The God with whom the Word, or Logos, was originally is designated here by the Greek expression ὁ θεός, that is, the·osʹ preceded by the definite article ho . This is an articular the·osʹ . Careful translators recognize that the articular construction of the noun points to an identity, a personality, whereas a singular anarthrous predicate noun preceding the verb points to a quality about someone. Therefore, John’s statement that the Word or Logos was “a god” or “divine” or “godlike” does not mean that he was the God with whom he was. It merely expresses a certain quality about the Word, or Logos, but it does not identify him as one and the same as God himself. In the Greek text there are many cases of a singular anarthrous predicate noun preceding the verb, such as in Mr 6:49; 11:32; Joh 4:19; 6:70; 8:44; 9:17; 10:1, 13, 33; 12:6 . In these places translators insert the indefinite article “a” before the predicate noun in order to bring out the quality or characteristic of the subject. Since the indefinite article is inserted before the predicate noun in such texts, with equal justification the indefinite article “a” is inserted before the anarthrous θεός in the predicate of John 1:1 to make it read “a god.” The Sacred Scriptures confirm the correctness of this rendering. In his article “Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 and John 1:1 ,” published in Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92, Philadelphia, 1973, p. 85, Philip B. Harner said that such clauses as the one in Joh 1:1 , “with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning. They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos . There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite.” On p. 87 of his article, Harner concluded: “In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.” Following is a list of instances in the gospels of Mark and John where various translators have rendered singular anarthrous predicate nouns occurring before the verb with an indefinite article to denote the indefinite and qualitative status of the subject nouns: Scripture Text New World Translation King James Version An American Translation New International Version Revised Standard Version Today’s English Version Mark 6:49 an apparition a spirit a ghost a ghost a ghost a ghost Mark 11:32 a prophet a prophet a prophet a prophet a real prophet a prophet John 4:19 a prophet a prophet a prophet a prophet a prophet a prophet John 6:70 a slanderer a devil an informer a devil a devil a devil John 8:44 a manslayer a murderer a murderer a murderer a murderer a murderer John 8:44 a liar a liar a liar a liar a liar a liar John 9:17 a prophet a prophet a prophet a prophet a prophet a prophet John 10:1 a thief a thief a thief a thief a thief a thief John 10:13 a hired man an hireling a hired man a hired hand a hireling a hired man John 10:33 a man a man a mere man a mere man a man a John 12:6 a thief a thief a thief a thief a thief a thief ********** That's my position.. The link is self explanatory for any English speaking "Greek scholar" to comprehend. Shalom. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by johnw47: 11:22pm On Jan 04, 2020 |
Janosky: lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ you often have said God(the Father) is "The" God and that the Word(theos) is "a" god polytheist false jw, you have two god's there and surely your "a" god(theos) is a lesser god than "The" God but of course God the Word is no less God than God the Father just like i am no less human than my human father you way hep big fraud oh mumu brain |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 3:14pm On Jan 05, 2020 |
johnw47: Janosky: Johnw FRAUD is an unrepentant, pathetic LIAR. You're 'no less human than your human Father' ,Johnw are you under your human Father's authority ? (Come here & LIE ......). Who commanded your deity in heaven ,"Sit at my right hand until I place your as stool for your feet" ? Psalm110:1. Acts2:34. (ASV) Your deity is in heaven under the authority of his own God & Father. ( Rev3:5,12. Ephesians 1:3,17,20. ( Johnw FRAUD, Come here & LIE)
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| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by johnw47: 3:41am On Jan 06, 2020 |
Janosky: lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ ha ha ha, how pathetic. when you are shown to lie, all you can do is evade it, falsely accuse, and lie lie lie yet again, but then you are a false jw: Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 1 Like |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by johnw47: 4:02am On Jan 06, 2020 |
Janosky: lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ laughing still very confused mumu brain. concerning your statement: "I have never said that Theos means a lesser God... never!!" i showed that you indeed have said that the Word Jesus-theos is a lesser god than the Father and now by what you wrote in your reply, you still believe that the Word Jesus theos is a lesser god than the Father you such a big confused mumu brain false accusing lying pussy cat, full of contraqdiction: 1Co_14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 1 Like |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by hupernikao: 1:33pm On Jan 06, 2020 |
Janosky: Good day, I have been off for a while, reason for my late response. I am likewise still surprised you committed the same offence i warned you off in referring to just a link or doing copy and paste. I have a good feeling you arent a studious bible student. You must maybe have been taught or told about what you are saying but you haven't spend YOUR TIME to look into it and get your footings. You cant be arguing the scriptures with this attitude, you will be not more than an athiest who insist on not studying the even a single book of bible but already confirm how wrong all the books are in him delusion. You must study, spend time also ti explain here not just snippet but body of knowledge you prove to know. I have already getting tired of not seeing you doing a good explanation by yourself but just putting links. I want to read your understanding, your words and your thought share, not another man's own. You can use others as references. I will rather delay my sharing until i have time than doing copy and paste all around. Now to the TOPIC: Firstly, i asked you to explain your stand on John 1:1 not because you havent shown your stand and though earlier, i only want to treat this as a new start up thread for mental demarcation since you refused to open a new thread. But i obverse you swerved from your initial stand and explanation of your conclusion to another, See your earlier thought summarized below:
Your emphasis earlier was the fact that TOV usage on Theon means it has to be God. That any where God is referred to it carry the article THE TOV/TON. I am sure from my earlier explanation you would have checked well and see how VERY WRONG YOU ARE INTERPRETING GREEK TEXT SCRIPTURES as an Englishman. I guess by now you have realized that Theon/Theos are same words with same meaning in Greek, that is why you cant direction. And also the usage of Ton is not sufficient to change the meaning of Theon/Theos. To help you more, i did a further check on the Septuagint usage of Theos (i.e Greek translation of the Hebrew (OT) Scriptures) Theos was used severally as translated as God Almighty - Jehovah translated as Theos occurred 6513 times - Shaddai (El) translated as Theos 48 in all occurrences You can do further study on adonai, Elohim etc. Secondly, You are referring to articles from JW which i believe you are a member. I have gone through it. My issue is the inability of JWs to be stable in disproving the same God (Jesus-God) issue. You seems to find convenient argument to defend your dogma. Observe the below. - In John 1:1 ...and God was the Word: You claimed that because it is an anarthrous noun, and has no definite article then we must have "a" in front and hence cant be God. - In 1 John 5:20...The True God and Eternal Life: In this we have a definite article, then you change to, he was talking about the pronoun "him" but not the Son. here now, you chose to neglect the Greek construction of article "the". even the use of the word eternal life is neglected in view. - In John 20:25 My Lord and My God (ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου) meaning THE Lord of me, THE God of me. A clear usage of article THE that you held unto in John 1:1. Yet you interpreted this as Thomas own way, not Jesus approval. See, I have told you before that the divinity of Christ as God must be proven by the whole body of Scriptures, its there for you to see all around. Christ is the center, focus, essence of the Scriptures, you can explain his oneness with God way by looking for convenience. Now, back to John 1:1 ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος Firstly, you should observe that the word THE was also not in "In The beginning", it was written "In beginning". The English added the word article THE for clarity. Why wasnt this questions. would we have said IN BEGINNING, then the question will be WHAT BEGINNING. As the lack of THE will implies many beginning or according to your interpretation, we should have IN A BEGINNING. If you can excused THE in arche (beginning) why sad on the adding of THE in from of Theos, why add A for Theos and THE for beginning. Now, this is even not a key argument. Look at the body of John 1:1 you will understand John's writing style. I will show you key places where John ommited article THE and yet JW have no issues with it except the Theos. John 1:1 - In John 1:2. John 1:6 There was a man sent from (no article) "should we use a god or the God"? God (Theou), whose name was John (observe no article used for God, but you didnt translate this as "a god" John 1:12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of (no article) "should we use a god or the God"? God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:13 - Which were born, not of blood, nor of John1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of John 1:18 - Observe this well No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Both Theon and Theos was used in this verse without TOV/TON or article. the first God here was from Theon, and it never have a TOV article THE. θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο So, it should be a god, right? same as Theos here, you believe it is God, why not "a god". I will stop on this. The issue you have is you cant separate your emotions, background, English culture/writings from the way the scriptures were documented. You must know that the original scriptures werent written in chapters/verses nor do they have space, punctuations, nor mixed of caps/small letters. They were mostly CAPS. Now imagine reading John 1:1 as it is written. Let us assume in English. This is how it will look INTHEBEGINNINGWASTHEWORDANDTHEWORDWASWITHGODANDTHEWORDWASGOD. Now English translation will have a lot to do to decode the arrangement and exact interpretation using English lexicons only without carrying the body of knowledge of biblical meaning and interpretation. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Nobody: 3:02pm On Jan 06, 2020 |
Amujale: The blue is where you failed WOEFULLY Sir!  Someone passing across a vital information is like an Eye-opener. What i believe remains in my head until you're able to CONVINCED me otherwise, and the only way you can successfully do that is by mildly answering any thought provoking question that i may have regarding what you're trying to establish as facts. We all know the importance of TEACHING in the human society. Teacher increase the knowledge of those listening to them, therefore any right thinking teacher should gladly welcome thought provoking questions from the audience, this means what you are saying is sinking down in the hearts of your audience. But when you're easily provoked at every question and expecting those you're supposed to teach to start answering you then you're murdering your own motives yourself! You are not the one to start asking questions after your assertions, rather you're supposed to be the ANSWERING questions RESPECTFULLY! But since you've said you're not here to CONVINCE me, then there is no need pestering me with your so called unquestionably stupid assertions! |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 7:07pm On Jan 06, 2020 |
hupernikao:
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| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by johnw47: 6:07am On Jan 07, 2020 |
^^^ Ecc_7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: lying pharisee deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ that's all you copy and paste fella has for reply and copy and paste mumu, you often copy and paste material not related to what was said such a deceiver, of course Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 12:44pm On Jan 07, 2020 |
hupernikao:Theos occurs as Jehovah & EL Shaddai. Yes. In Greek usage,theos= a god/God. In Greek John 1:1 Jesus was theos= a god/God. The God (Father) = tov Theon. What did Jesus say the Father reveal to Simon Peter? Who did Jesus Christ says he is? Ans> Matt 16:13-17. The son of the living God. Ans> John10:35,36 "the sons of God are Gods. In other words,the son of God is a God. ****************** John 1:18, theon has no Greek article. Yes ! Hupernikao claims that the Word theos & ton theon is the same personality/being. In John 1:18, is Theon& theos the same being? You mean that God dwells in the bosom of himself? In whose bosom does the holy spirit dwell? John 1:18,says no man has seen Theon, you mean the holy scripture is lying? |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 1:31pm On Jan 07, 2020 |
hupernikao:**** A1) What is the koine Greek usage of Theos? Theos> a god /God. Still, Theon NEVER referred to Jesus anywhere in the Greek scripture. Without the article(Tov/Ton), John 1:18 doesn't in any way suggest that "only begotten son" & the Father is the same being. You are a Greek scholar, the SCRIPTURAL Evidences for the JW position is valid,no be JW put am there for the Greek scripture. (****2B). It is hypocrisy& intellectual dishonesty for you to cling Ho Theos in John 20:25 & turn a blind eye to "ho Theos" in 2 Corinthians 4:4. .Both are proofs of divinity, does it make Satan Almighty God? .Jesus himself REFUTES your claim about John 20:25, he is ascending to tov Theon, "my God & your God"(John 20:17. compare 2 Cor 3:23 "you belong to Christ and Christ belongs to God"  .PROOF: Jesus is a Theos who worships tov Theon... Hupernikao,do you believe the words of Jesus? ************** (*3C) The insertion of either articles ("a" or "the" is for clarity and better understanding of the holy Scriptures...Hupernikao quote> "See, I have told you before that the divinity of Christ as God must be proven by the whole body of Scriptures, its there for you to see all around. Christ is the center, focus, essence of the Scriptures, you can explain his oneness with God way by looking for convenience." *Rev3:12. "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God" *Compare Rev 3:5 & Matt 10:32,33. Do you believe in the words of Jesus Christ in the spiritual realm? Is he God in heaven or the servant of the God in heaven? Trinity is a SCAM. Reject it !!!!!!! |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Nobody: 6:04pm On Jan 07, 2020 |
sonmvayina: 1 Like |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by sonmvayina(m): 6:58pm On Jan 07, 2020 |
If there was really a heaven and Jesus was the answer to get there, would the white people give it to black or any other people... If Jesus was really an answer to anything, will the white man give him to us? |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Gandollar(f): 8:02am On Jan 08, 2020 |
Sharming95:Nothing wrong with his politics. APC started opposition with madness. Do you sow thorns and reap roses? |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by hupernikao: 12:10pm On Jan 08, 2020 |
Janosky: I observe that you neither have honor for biblical engagement and have treated it as a fun or something of joke. Your first response to my last post is enough for me to discern the stuff you are made of. Doing copy and paste and then laugh of effort in painstaking explanation which you neither have or give. After this post i will rather use my time for something better. I guess, you are simply an upgrade of that guy (Amujale) shouting "Jesus and God is scam" all over the place, like a troubled town crier without a message to deliver. If at this stage you are still struggling with all my explanation above, then its sad that you simply cant differentiate a biblical reference on Jesus that point to his divinity as God from those that point to his humanity as man. You are just running in connected holes that leads no where. A reference to SON OF GOD, SON OF MAN, BEGOTTEN OF GOD, ONLY SON, LORD etc will ALWAYS refer to his humanity that is, after his incarnation, hence, you will see words like Father, God etc used as related to a father/son relationship when those words are used. These are basics of Concept of Salvation. The reason Phil 2:4-8 used strong words FORM, EQUAL. If "form of a servant (man)" (vs 7) = 100% servant and not a quality of servant (man), "form of God" (vs 6) wouldn't have been less. Your lack of clarity on separating these two personalities is your undoing that you cant see he existed as God from the beginning but became a man (man is not God, that is a lower state) for your sake, for your sins, mine and the world. And through this his glory was restored even as Man. Hence the reason, after his Resurrection, words like the THRONE (authority) will always reference to Jesus as Son, Man, Jesus Christ, Son of Man etc, that is his humanity, to show you that Man (Christ) truly seats on the throne (possess authority/dominion) in fulfilling and restoring God's plan for man from Genesis lost in Adam. That is the beauty of Christianity. God left all to dwell among men (sinners), died and rose, restore the Glory of man as Man for man. When you cant comprehend that God cannot lose his glory, what makes God, God (Almighty) is he cant lose anything, not confined into things. Hence, when you see Christ glory restored, that is his humanity and that is the glory of man restored by God (In Christ) for man. He was God from the beginning. God is God, God dont sit (he existed before time), God dont sleep (Jesus did), God dont die (Jesus did and rose), God cant lose glory (man did, restored in Christ), God dont get/receive authority (he owns all, Man did as Christ, Man was restored by Christ (man)), God dont need a throne, HE IS GOD OVER ALL. Throne is for Man in Christ, hence throne refers to Christ (man) as Christ restored it as Man for Man. Lives for ever for Man's sake and give his authority to man. The essence Man in Christ is seated in Christ (place of authority). These are all basics of Salvation in the Bible. God became Man to die for Man. In becoming Man, he came as Son. he cant come as God and dwell among sinners, God is HOLY. He came as Man (form of man) for man. Jesus was called (a deliverer), Called a redeemer, a savior, forgiver of sin, give eternal life. David said "i know my redeemer liveth' speaking by the spirit ahead of time, Isaiah called him Everlasting father, These are things that can only be found and done and ascribed to God (Almighty) alone. God with us (Emmanuel) means God made abode/dwells, tabernacle with man (referring to his incarnation). The moment he is called CHRIST in itself, should let you know that is humanity as a bible student. God cannot be anointed, Christ means anointed one (speaks of his humanity). You will see Body of Christ (humanity), not Body of God. He is as Son (man) today for you and I. He showed you all, that all is because of man, yet you cant see. He died as man, rose as man, appeared again as man not as spirit, ate, spoke, walk etc for you to be sure this is man and for you to foresee the glory of man in his resurrected body. He showed you a glimpse of the glory of man in Christ as man. The reason when you see reference to Christ as LORD it points to his redemptive work for man and now Lord of them (believers). You still have to struggle with the fact that the only way God could save man, is as man, to pay (died) for man's sin (soul that sinneth shall die, God cant die) as man. For God so loved the world and gave his Son (humanity).... Son of God will always refer to his humanity, God's existence among men as MAN. He carried man's sin as Man (God cannot behold iniquity, it has to be man), hence God neglected him (son) on the cross when he bore our sins as man not as God. All things made by him (his divinity), God became flesh (his humanity), Same God, same essence, same authority. The LORD our God, the LORD is one (Deuteronomy 6:4, Mark 12:29), you cant have a lesser God with God. It is an abuse of the meaning of God in itself. The moment you use the word God as a bible student and not qualified, it means God. if you like put "a, the, by, m , w". The moment you cant differentiate it from eg god of this world (qualified), then you are only walking in error. How do you have God, and then a lesser God with him, are they on Mount Olympus? the originator of this must have watched or read the Olympus deity too much. Words, names were not just used in the scriptures, they form patterns, carry meaning and essence, the reason in all the reference of Jesus in the 4 Gospels only once will you see him called JESUS CHRIST (Matthew 1:1), its either JESUS or CHRIST. But after His Resurrection, he was consistently referred to as JESUS CHRIST almost in all writings from Acts to Revelation. These arent accidental. The Spirit of Grace carefully chose the right words to convene thoughts, plans, and essence of God. But since you on a search to no where about Christ, its a pity, you may not see meaning in any of the above. I truly would have loved to help you, but your attitude shows that you dont need help but neglect to your own desires and error until you learn to sit with your bible with a true heart to know and not a clouded mind carried about like the wave of the sea. I HOPE YOU WONT FIND IT HARD AGAIN TO READ ALL HERE. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 1:55am On Jan 09, 2020 |
hupernikao: Mr Greek Scholar,You're giving mundane excuses to hide & run away from the Truth. I have given you valid proof from the Scriptures and valid renditions of Greek texts that shed light on correct understanding and translation of John1:1,you no agree. (These facts are still there in your own copy of the Bible till kingdom come) I can see that you cherish your Trinitarian delusion very much. ********* Why did you refuse to address my questions about Revelation 3:5,12? *Rev3:12. "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God" *Compare Rev 3:5 & Matt 10:32,33. Do you believe in the words of Jesus Christ in the spiritual realm? Is he God in heaven or the servant of the God in heaven?" ******** Please check if 1 Cor11:3. 1 Cor 3:23 and 1 Cor 15:24-28 is still in your Bible. You don't seem to understand it in English, please come & explain to us in Greek, what Jesus Christ in heaven is telling you in Rev 3:5,12,21 John17:21. John 14:28 & John 20:17,30,31. Shalom. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Janosky: 2:38am On Jan 09, 2020 |
hupernikao:LIAR. Psalms 110:1 occurred in heaven many millenniums before Jesus came to earth. Jesus is not Almighty God,Jehovah. **Psalms 110:1 Jehovah saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool." ASV. Compare Acts 2:34,35. Ephesians 1:3,17,20. 1Cor15:24-28. (ASV). You're intellectually dishonest. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by hupernikao: 10:15am On Jan 09, 2020 |
Janosky: No issue. But when you are ready to start learning the scriptures with an open mind which leads to godly understanding, ensure you start from my very last post. It is basic enough to help you clear lots of misconception affecting your thinking now. It is the rudiment of Christianity. Ensure you bookmark the post or copy it and save. Trust me you will need it someday. The beauty of that post (my last post) is, it will clear all confusion for you such confusion as your explanation of Psalm 110:1, "that it happened in heaven millenniums before Jesus came to earth". Very laughable. You are still disturbed with the kid time when you read book of my bible story or watch much Christian movies that has to bearing in the scriptures. I am sure you will also believe that the sin of Satan is that he want to overthrow God or be above God in heaven and fought God etc. Silly explanation that neglect the use of words for God as Jehovah (All Mighty, no might stand against), El Elyon (Most High, No other higher ground above, no place above God) etc. Your reference to Ps 110:1 should be left for Kids, you should move to reality and stop clinging on shadows. You will likewise believe that Adam and Eve pluck fruit from a tree literally to eat like gluttons and also that serpent used to walk upright before until Eden's hazard The pictures and depictions in your JW books have succeeded in playing smart on most readers intelligence.Ps 110:1 is one of the most quoted verse of the scriptures. Referenced in Matt 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42 and Peter (Acts 2:34). I have told you earlier, BIBLE BASICS; the word LORD when used, will be related to authority, conquest, leader, master, one who has the control. Read, Read, read your bible. Simply reading Acts 2:34 account should let you know Ps 110:1 was a prophecy concerning the Resurrection, ascension and glorification of Christ the Man. In Peter's explanation of Jesus' glorification, he quoted (Ps 110:1) he called it the right hand of the father. You must follow biblical narration and flow of information. The shedding of the Holy Ghost is evidence of His glorification (John 7:37-39, John 14:13-17, Luke 24:25-26, 44-46). Read Peter in context and be open minded. Acts 2:29-34 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. vs 29 speaks about David, Peter pointed to him as he is an evidence they (Jews) cant deny and his word is taken as sacred. vs 30 Called him a Prophet here. He used this to explain David's word, that is what he said was a prophecy. He didnt refer to him as King here but Prophet. Prophet is one who is seen as God's mouth piece. Again he spoke about "ACCORDING TO THE FLESH", CHRIST SIT ON THRONE". I have told you earlier (if you read), Throne is always refer to Christ the Man, it is a place of authority, God dont need a throne to be God, He is God all by himself. Throne is for man's dominion, Man In Christ. vs 31, Patiently read this: David seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ. That is what David said was showed to him (revelation), he saw ahead of time. He saw Christ Resurrection, future not millennium past like you said. vs 32-33 gave you undeniable fact about what David was talking about. then vs 34-35 mentioned the prophecy Peter was refering to (Ps 110:1). vs 35 Lord and Christ. Peter usage of the word Lord should be obvious to you now, he was called lord because of his conquest, position and authority (right hand of the father). Learn to read your bible for yourself, and read all not selective. Dont jump around scriptures and dwell in error. Sit David said Sit, i told you yesterday, you dont use Sit for God, it is man that sit, Sitting means a place to rest, a place of completion, work completed then you sit. It is man that sit. The reason he point the sitting to the right hand (place of authority). God didnt lose authority, man did, Jesus as God never lost authority, Man did, restored back by Man (Christ), Man sit in Christ Jesus now and forever. Key words you must observe: Sit, Right Hand, Enemy, Footstool etc. Those will refer to humanity of Jesus. Ephesians 1:3,17,20 that you quoted, go and read it again in context, dont be lazy with bible study. Ephesians 1:16-22 When you read, you will know this was referring to Christ the man, died, raised, exalted. That is his humanity. Feet, head, body, Church, right-hand. Read well, nothing hidden here, open your eyes and read. The same terms used in 1 Cor 15:24-28 you reference. The issue with you is you dont read your bible, it is very obvious here, you just scan around the internet and then skimmed through your bible. You must sit down and start being diligent. Your phone and access to internet should be ceased for now so that you can keep your focus on the right thing. Dont contribute to the already made problem of doctrinal error that many diligent Christian are tirelessly resolving daily online. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by hupernikao: 10:19am On Jan 09, 2020 |
Janosky: When you read and comprehend my last two post, you will find your answers there. You will know why the usage of the FATHER, HEAD, BODY etc. The problem is you dont read. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Amujale(m): 3:29pm On Jan 09, 2020 |
hupernikao: God is God. A God is God. For instance, Sango is a God. Osun is a Goddess. Ra is a God. Au-Set is a Goddess. To me, my great grandfather is a god. Anahiti is a goddess. Dionysus is a god. Bacchus is a god. Sopona is a god. Styx is a goddess. Not to be confused with the Almighty God, the most important state of existence. Jesus is not a God. In all reality, Jesus is a fake god. Jesus is a first century fictional character that was invented by the Romans. All Abrahamic religious text are false, fake and counterintuitive. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Nobody: 5:54pm On Jan 09, 2020 |
sonmvayina: So your brains are malfunctioning like this!  Wow!  Even some white people are worshiping the African Gods because the attributes of such Gods appeals to them! You might have been misinformed regarding the personality of Jesus of Nazareth, due to the attributes displayed by misinformed Churchgoers! So listen and learn now! There are Gods whose attributes are as follows ~ ©Greed ©Selfishness ©Uncontrollable Sex ©Vengeance ©Blood thirsty ©Domineering e.t.c No matter where you come from, if you're not tied to the religion of your parents, you'll prefer the God whose attribute appeals to you, it's never the case of been white or black! |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by sonmvayina(m): 3:50pm On Jan 10, 2020 |
Maximus69: If them tell you to stop to dey smoke that thing.. You go say make Dem leave you.. See wetin you dey type now.. How is it related to my post?.. I said Jesus is useless and good for nothing that's why white people gave him to us, if it was something important and good.. They will not.. They have not given us the blue print for building an aeroplane and built a factory where we can empower ourselves financial.. No. They gave us Jesus to keep us busy while they ransack the land for valuable resources to steal.. |
| Re: Jesus Is Not God – Reno Omokri by Nobody: 4:21pm On Jan 10, 2020 |
sonmvayina: That's how Satan want you to feel about Jesus and trust me he has gotten you exactly where he wanted! Well Jesus has NOTHING to do with whether people advance financially or technologically, according to the Bible his own people turned against him, because he didn't empower them to be financially resourceful with all his miraculous powers {John 6:15} just as you concluded, they find Jesus to be a useless preacher and teacher of no benefit, so they killed him. You can travel to any part of the earth if you feel like nationalizing yourself in the midst of those who are ADVANCING to your taste, nobody will hinder you if you're able to meet up with their requirements. God owns everywhere so don't limit your freedom or citizenship to one place! Psalms 24:1 But what Jesus taught back then is been embraced by millions of individuals from different races under the heavens today, Jehovah's Witnesses have formed one big happy family of peace loving worshippers globally. Whereas those who were advancing in building planes are planning now to come and bomb you with WAR planes. I hope you can see the difference between what Jesus gave you and what you so much desire? Even those those advanced countries can't protect you from what their so called advancement brought! |
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