Maximus69:


[s]Argument?

My friend NO ONE is arguing with you because you're a pigheaded nepotist who is battling to market what is not available!

All the Characters, places and dates mentioned in the Bible are REAL and the events are well documented for future references, it's you that has failed woefully to present your so called REAL history in a documented form!

Nobody will waste their precious time with you on baseless, fruitless and hopeless arguments of no specific purpose! The world has become a global village and people need to look beyond this your caveman sentiment to interact and communicate with the world around them!

So your idea of keeping to what has not been useful for thousands of years is like driving people backwards!

What we need now is the information from God that can unite people of all races to make the world a Paradise, NOT this your useless racist ideologies!

Wake up my friend, nobody is asking you to throw away your cultural heritage like dressing, language, morals e.t.c

What we're saying is "we need what can keep mankind together as a global family" and the Bible stands as a tool, so if you've gotten another tool you're free to present it. Right thinking individuals will try all forms of techniques and if yours proves effective nobody will ask for your permission before making use of it! [/s]

Amujale:
Kindly research all that you are reading here.

Dont allow false assertions to prevail.

Ask questions.

The evil ones amongst us will continue to defend the wickedness of the Abrahamic religions because of their personal ulterior motive.

Dont let that phase you, ask questions.

Research, learn and study real history.


There are various kinds of narratives running concurrently on Asian and European history, here are the two main ones:-

(a) Their real history which includes all the attempts they have both made to conquer the world. i.e stealing, looting, desecrating sacred sites around the globe, warmongery e.t.c

(b) Fakery. i.e Manufactured history, fantasy and all other made up stories, fake history, fabricated stories e.t.c

Daejoyoung:

So only African history is good? lol.

Amujale:

Provide us with one piece of evidence to back any of the text above.
You are a disgrace to all the human senses.
As i said earlier, you are a fool whose words are meaningless.
I know you are a liar and a faker.
You know you are liar and a faker.
And more importantly, the readers know that you're in above your head.
Either provide us with a clear evidence to back your claims or SHUT UP.

Amujale:
Imagine the irony here.

In stating that Jesus is a fictitious character, i have given various reasons, evidence and rationale.

Yet, when the wicked people that are pretending to be defending these bad religions would respond they would conpletely overlook all the evidence.

Even going as far as denying that such evidence was given.


For instance, the Jesus character is fake because the authors of the Christian bible plagiarised him from Horus.

The Jesus storyline is fake because the authors of the Christian bible plagiarised the story from the Horus and Isis one.

The Jesus character is fake because their are no genuine historical records of his existence.

The Jesus storyline is false because the authors have been found to have euhemirised the Jesus story out of Emperor Titus's military campaign.

All in all, the Jesus character is a fictitious one.

Btw, the image below depicts Isis & Horus.

All the genuine historians agree that here is where the authors of the Christian bible got the idea of the Jesus character as well as the mother-child relationship status.

Amujale:


Abraham is a fictitious character.

I will give anyone that can provide genuine evidence of the Christian bible version of Abraham £100.

As a matter of fact, here’s a challenge to anyone anywhere in the world.

Provide one genuine evidence of any character in the Christian bible.

For ever character that you can prove, I will personally provide such a person £100.

Amujale:
The only significant invention that has come out of European history is probably the “Wheel”, it was definitely a huge technological breakthrough. However, the invention of the ‘wheel’ came about due to the inexplicable culture of warmongering at the time.

During the times when Africans are busy national building, living green and virtuously in their own capacity, Asia and Europe were busy trying to take over the world by means of brute force.

And when they had exported their tyranny of the Christian bible and Quran to all the places on their map and they had run out of map, they turned their greedy attention to our great continent.

These are the histories we need to appreciate, the place they called Africa is in all reality the jewel of civilisation.

Amujale:
Jesus is a fictitious character

Maximus69:

....

Amujale:

Now you have completely lost the argument and I will stop responding to your post.

You can shut up now until you have something interesting to say.

Amujale:

And you can stop quoting my unclad posts unless you answer the [b[questions posed to you[/b] already in these same posts.

I think I’ve made myself perfectly clear.

Amujale:
Those who buy into either the Christianity, Islam or Judaism narrative are being conned due to various reasons and one is that all these manufactured religions own a wicked and evil past.


Christianity originates from wickedness and evil.

Islam originates from wickedness and evil.

Judaism originates from wickedness and evil.

Janosky:


You know Greek so much you have to TWIST the truth. SMH ....
Greek John1:1 says ton Theon (The God, Father of Jesus) but the Word (Logos) was theos.

In your quote here:
"b]Now to John 1:1[/b]
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Theon), and the Word was God (Theos). (KJV)"


Greek John1:1B - kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon
English: " the Word was facing towards the God".
PROOF: Ton Theon (the God,Almighty) and the Logos (theos) are two different beings.
The Logos is not the Father.

* SEE ANOTHER PROOF:
John 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God (Theon), believe also in me."
Jesus called the God Almighty " ton theon" in John 14:1.


The ENTIRE New Testament Greek, there is NO place where Jesus was ever addressed as ton theon (The God, Almighty). NONE !!
John 20:17,Jesus Father & his God is EXCLUSIVELY ton Theon .

Greek 3588 ton MUST precede theon.
Therefore, ton theon (the God).
****
In the screenshot below,Trinitarians DUBIOUSLY OMITTED (ton = the ) ,to deceive una...

Although you may not be able to read the Greek, what John 1:1 says when translated without changing the words used for God is this “in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Theon and the Word was Theos”. The original Scriptures did not use the same word for the first mention of God and the second mention. The word used in the first mention is THEON (which refers to the Almighty. The word in the second mention is THEOS which is what is used to refer to Yeshua.

EXPLANATION OF JOHN 1:1 (Theon and Theos)
Kindly read carefully.

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος (NLT)
En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (KJV)

THEON
The word Theon occurred in the New Testament Scriptures 148 times. It simply means A deity, especially the supreme Divinity. Observe the following text usage of Theon

Matthew 4:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God (Theon)

Matthew 5:8 King James Version (KJV)
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God (Theon)

John 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 No man hath seen God (Theon) at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God (Theon), believe also in me.

Acts 16:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God (Theon): and the prisoners heard them.

Hebrews 6:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God (Theon) to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

The word Theon is a Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular.

THEOS
The word Theos occurred in the New Testament Scriptures 311 times. It is also simply translated as A deity, especially the supreme Divinity same as Theon.
Observe the following text usage of Theos



Ephesians 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 One God (Theos) and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Observe that in the verses above God (almighty) was rendered as Theos and not Theon. It is also good to know that in the 311 times usage, Theos was referred to God almighty over 250 times without speaking about Jesus. For example in John 3:16

16 For God (Theos) so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

God here is the Father, Almighty, yet Theos was used. That means the Greek did not used Theon as a reserved name for God almighty but used Theos likewise. As seen above, Theos (311 times) was used as twice as Theon (148 times) to refer to God in the scriptures.
The word Theos is a Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular

Now to John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (Theon), and the Word was God (Theos). (KJV)
From above explanation it should be clear to you that Theos and Theon means God and not a variant of God. So, the question will be why was Theon and Theos used here. Let us do a little of word construction study.

Read my conclusion well below
Hence John 1:1 usage of Theon and Theos is not a change of personalities. It is not referring to two personalities but one. The usage of two different word construction is due to the Greek sentence construction in using Nominative (Noun) in subject, in this case Theos (God (Theos) was the word) and Accusative Noun as receiver. In this case Theon (The Word) was God (Theon)).

hupernikao:


Sir, why are you this restless because of the Bible. Truth dont need a defense, truth is a defense in itself. The fact that you are worked up and restless says alot. Just calm down, then learn better.

hupernikao:


Firstly i will appreciate you do two things:
1. Have an open mind in this discussion
2. Keep to the real topic, the reason and essence of this discussion.

Now, let me re post Reno Omokri assertion and conclusion here, then check on my response again and answer based on that.

Reno Omokri as posted



If you a truly a bible scholar with knowledge of original writings, How true is the bold above. That the scriptures here referred to God because it uses Theon but Theos will refer to Jesus. Is this the reason for usage of Theon and Theos in Greek writings?

That is his explanation. Now read my response again below.




Now, my explanation is on text usage in the scriptures to debunk Reno false explanation of the same text. Whether the Theos and Theon referred to same person or two person, same status in John 1:1 is another discussion, and whether there is trinity is not also the discussion here. You can open a new thread to give your detailed explanation for further study on trinity, i will contribute mine there provided it is educative and not abusive.

On final note, the real discussion here is was if Theon is used for God alone and Theos was never used for him in the scriptures? I have given you enough scriptures to debunk that, most come is John 3:16 (For God - Theos...) Hence Theos here can never depict a lesser God. This i have cleared above that both Theos and Theon was used for God all through the scriptures, it s just grammatical construction of the Greek such as he/him in English.

Janosky:


In the bible ,Greek theos refers to Yahweh, to Man and to Jesus . 1 Cor 8:4-6.
The million dollar question:
Was Jesus Christ ever called "ton (TOV) theon" (the God) in the holy Bible?

ANSWER: The hard evidence is NO...

*"*** Ton (TOV) theon" >the God) exclusively refers to the God Almighty Yahweh.

https://biblehub.com/greek/theon_2316.htm.

Greek John 1:1 says "the Word is NOT ton ( tov) theon...> the God Almighty.

PROOF: Ton (TOV) Theon >(the God,Almighty)
the Logos >(theos)
*** Two different beings.. Two different personalities.

The Logos is not the Father.,Almighty.
* SEE ANOTHER PROOF:
John 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye
believe in God ( TOV Theon ), believe also in
me."

** Greek " ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos (KJV)

English: the Logos was facing towards the God and theos (a God/god) was the Word"

**"Omission of TOV (before theon) from the Trinitarian interlinear is DUBIOUS.

Reno Omokri is correct jare...

*** ******* ****
Can you be with the bus driver and still be the same bus driver?

In the bible ,Greek theos refers to Yahweh, to Man and to Jesus . 1 Cor 8:4-6.

Amujale:


Christianity is a false concept.

The Israelite story is false.

It's you that needs to stop fixating on falsehood and fakery and concentrate on real history.

Christianity as well as all the other Abrahamic religions are a hinderence to the progress of the continent.

hupernikao:


I guess you already have a set mind to defend an issue that is not in discussion.
It is good to always stay with narration irrespective of your knowledge, conviction or rejection. This you failed to do in this discussion.
Reno never talk about any Ton or Tov, it is your inclusion trying to prove what doesnt exist in this discussion.

Reno assertion is "because theon is used and then theos for the other (God) mentioned, then they must be different personalities". Is this assertion true? Of course you know the answer. Theon or Theos literally doesnt differentiate God or personailties. I am not here to display knowledge or argue Greek text but to clear wrong interpretation of the text Reno mentioned.

You have already answered Reno here and proved him wrong with your quote below

. That means we have options in Theos used in John 1:1 - It can refer to God, man or Jesus. Hence Reno assertion is wrong by saying Theos is not/cannot be used for God and you proved him wrong yourself. What/Who Theos refers to there will be another discussion for you.

Now, like i said before, if you have other things to discuss on this why not create a thread for us to discuss. The premise of your trinity debunk is different from Reno's own and Reno's own have been debunked here even by you. So open a new thread and give detailed explanation for your assertion. Then we can have discussion. By the way how do you think Trinity can be proved or debunked by just a text of the scriptures when for example KJV has 31,102 verses and 783,137 words. So, please if you have another or higher argument concerning John 1:1 start an educative thread. Dont let us distract or derail this. Thanks.

Janosky:

In Greek John 1:1 per se, theos was not used for the Almighty God.
Mr Omokri said it's Theon, (but actually it's TOV (ton) Theon> the God.)
That's the point Mr Omokri emphasized..
In John1:1 Latin it's DEUM for the Almighty God.
...
For better clarity,you can read up his "Biblical facts about the Trinity" in the Vanguard Newspaper of August 2019 (pls google it,you're find it).
Reno Omokri never talked about ton (TOV), ,Yes..

The question is:
Does the Greek word (TOV) exist in John 1:1?
The total summation of Mr Omokri is spot-on..

East2West:


***1)
Bro, stop inserting to another man's narrative. You aren't a mind reader. Reno words are open for all to see and you have confirmed it wrong in your explanation too. Leave trinity out of this discussion, it wasn't mentioned at all nor inferred. Or how does Theon and Theos discussion become "Tri".

**2)
Reno assertion is like this statement in English "He loves his shirt" and then Reno claims because "He" is used first and then "his" is used later, then the "he and him" cannot be the same person. Whereas the English statement above can refer to same person or different persons. Why are you then supporting such wrong grammatical explanation because you have a motive to discuss trinity here.

**3)
I have told you that it's not too hard to open a thread on trinity and give your own detailed explanation for discussion but when you see a wrong say it as it is not trying to justify it because of your own motive.

Janosky:


****1)
In Greek John 1:1 per se, theos was
not used for the Almighty God.
Mr Omokri said it's Theon, (but
actually it's TOV (ton) Theon> the
God.)

Mr East2West, ('alias hupernikao') do you understand English?

***2)
Your claim is mere FICTION.

** PROOF No1.
The million dollar question:
Was Jesus Christ ever called "ton
(TOV) theon" (the God) in the holy
Bible?
ANSWER: The hard evidence is NO...
*"*** Ton (TOV) theon" >the God)
exclusively refers to the God Almighty
Yahweh.
https://biblehub.com/greek/theon_2316.htm

**## PROOF No2...

* Greek John1:1
" ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon
kai Theos ēn ho Logos (KJV).

English: the Logos was facing towards
the God and theos (a God/god) was
the Word"


* PROOF No3:
John 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye
believe in God ( TOV Theon ), believe
also in me."

Who did Jesus Christ call TOV (ton) Theon in John14:1?

***** 3.
Your claim is still another piece of FICTION.
Needless opening another thread, IMHO..
Mr Omokri has spoken the bitter truth.
You do not agree with Reno Omokri, go & quarrel with him... you know where to reach him..
Peace be unto you.

what John 1:1 says when translated without changing the words used for God is this “in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Theon and the Word was Theos”. The original Scriptures did not use the same word for the first mention of God and the second mention. The word used in the first mention is THEON (which refers to the Almighty. The word in the second mention is THEOS which is what is used to refer to Yeshua .

hupernikao:


Like I told you, learn to stay in narrative. That's how make educative arguments. I have given you below again what Reno said.



You have tried to divert by using the word per se. What does that mean in serious and definite interpretation of scriptures. It's either you can't simply understand basic Greek beyond the Tov you are mentioning or you are just being hardened to say the obvious.

I won't start a discussion on trinity or the meaning or intention of the writer in John 1:1 with you here. Like I said, it is a diversion but For a starter in Greek language lesson, you already missed your case with all your emphasis on Tov,Ton and so on as your prove. To me, It is lazy and also lack seriousness to base your explanation to debunk or prove trinity on a single text of the scripture like John 1:1. Even the John 1:1, I am still trying to give you proper knowledge of its grammar you adamantly refuse and kept your bias. What will now happen when we look at the whole body of scriptures.
It's good for you though. Keep it up. You don win!

Janosky:


https://www.vanguardngr.com/2019/08/biblical-facts-about-the-trinity-reno-omokri/

Reno Omokri quote>
"Many Christians try to use John 1:1 to
justify the Trinity. They quote it as “In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with God, and the Word was God.”
But that is not what it says in the original
Greek manuscripts. I have The Original
Manuscript. I tweeted and facebooked a
picture of it. The first mention of God in the
original Manuscript is Theon, while the
second word used is Theos. These are Greek
words that have significance. For instance,
Greeks called Zeus, who is the head of their
pantheon of gods, Theon. They call Zeus’
children Theos. For instance, Dionysius, the
son of Zeus is referred to as Theos."
*****************
Koine Greek John 1:1 and the entire Greek New Testament exclusively references the Almighty Yahweh as TOV Theon> the God.

https://biblehub.com/greek/theon_2316.htm


Mr hupernikao, why do you object to usage of the Greek definite article (TOV) ?
You want to force the Greeks to use their own language in a manner that will suit your personal twists and beliefs....
Intellectual dishonesty.. Lols

NOUNS IN GREEK LANGUAGE
There are five CASES in Greek, the nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, and vocative. And there are three GENDER across the noun words.

That means the way you write a word (noun) can change but still carry same meaning in Greek. for example.
In Romans 4:11 the word righteousness was used twice. In English it is the same spelling because English doesnt differentiate nominative/accusative in spelling. But in Greek it will be spelled differently to show this, yet carry the same meaning and essence.
See below.

Romans 4:11
King James Version
4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

καὶ σημεῖον ἔλαβεν περιτομῆς σφραγῖδα τῆς δικαιοσύνης τῆς πίστεως τῆς ἐν τῇ ἀκροβυστίᾳ εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτὸν πατέρα πάντων τῶν πιστευόντων δι᾽ ἀκροβυστίας εἰς τὸ λογισθῆναι καὶ αὐτοῖς τὴν δικαιοσύνην

Observe the spelling in Greek:
The first "righteousness" δικαιοσύνης
The second "righteousness" δικαιοσύνην
Though speaking of the same righteousness, the spelling were different, why? One is in accusative and the other in nominative case.

Compare to Theon and Theos in John 1:1

John1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

The first "God" θεόν
The second "God" θεὸς
Observe the ending letter for first righteousness in Romans 4:11 and second mention of God in John 1:1 are the same (ς) that is the letter that shows nominative case in Greek.

Observe the ending letter for second righteousness in Romans 4:11 and first mention of God in John 1:1 are the same (ν) that is the letter that shows accusative case in Greek.

This letters dont change meaning of NOUNS but telling you a CASE or subject/object of a sentence.

That is why in Greek you can say "Ade eats dog" and still mean the same thing by saying "dog eats Ade". All you need to do is the check the CASES of the word. The difference here is the first Ade will carry (ς) nominative, while the second Ade will carry (ν) accusative. The reader will get the same meaning that Ade is the one eating dog not the other way. In English it will mean different thing.

So, in John 1:1 "God" θεόν (Theon), "God" θεὸς (Theos) etymologically cant be differentiated. And Theon was never a word reserved for Supreme God, It is a word used for God, gods etc same as Theos. I have shown this in my earlier post.

For further study check for other variants yet same meaning
θεοῦ (Theou) Noun Genitive masculine Singular
Θεέ (Thee) Noun Vocative Masculine Singular
Θεῷ (Theō) Dative Masculine Singular
And read my second post on this thread again

hupernikao:


Compliments of the season to you.

It is obvious you arent open to follow what is the real issue here. You only chose to see your bias mind. The Reno quote you extracted "which is not part of the discuss here" still repeat the same wrong information by claiming Theon means a superior God while Theos mean a lesser God to Theon. He is never a student of Greek but just a random reader of Greek text or movies as you showed yourself to be too.

I have done an exhaustive explanation on this earlier, see my second post on this thread. I will still help you further to learn the basics of Greek usage of words. I expect you to know that Theon/Theos (God) are nouns.



Lastly, like i said, this isnt to prove or disprove same personalities/trinity according to John 1:1. If you want us to discuss that open a thread. You are currently doing a bad job even in your debunking of same personalities in John 1:1. Ensure you do further and proper studies with open mind.