Kanade21:


And that's a big part of why DISCOS and GENCOS cannot raise funds for power in Nigeria.

Nigerians don't want to pay for power. They want it for free. Hence the bribery and corruption

Nigerians prefer to run generators with their money since they are not certain their bills will be used to improve power. How much can they afford to pay with 30 000 minimum wage?
If the billions spent on power so far brought no improvement, why should we be willing to trust them with more money?

Eddygourdo:
that's why I mentioned tarrif increase to meet the production costs , thus making it a viable investment decision for investors in the power sector. Nobody will complain about high tarrif if what he/she pays for is what he/she used. A meter will ensure people are able to mange their load needs based on their pocket and pay for only what they consume. Anything other than that is political propaganda of putting the cart before the horse. As much as I agree you have freedom of expression at least use that freedom to educate and promote equitable solutions and not political propaganda

Even with metering, we still have the laws that prevent DISCOS from setting their prices.

Which, even in an ideal situation of one human, one meter, leaves them short of cash

(And we need quite a lot of cash to fix things up....).

Hamid7:

Nigerians prefer to run generators with their money since they are not certain their bills will be used to improve power. How much can they afford to pay with 30 000 minimum wage?
If the billions spent on power so far brought no improvement, why should we be willing to trust them with more money?

Then we will continue to have less than 6 hours a day, because that is what we are paying for.

Plus all the billions we spend? I doubt we have spent up to 20-30bn since 1999. We need ten times that.

fergie001:

You see...how Nigerians behave.
They jump into conclusions and muddle things up...
That they are corrupt isn't in doubts but they are a reflection of their society.

I worked with them as an intern.....and I earned not one naira....not even dash...So Toseenlove...I am not a thief.

Ask anybody you know have interred with phcn whether they earned a dime... Legitimate or otherwise.

I believe u wella my brother. I didn't know It was u fergie, I heard how u were so diligent and honest then. I worked for free there too.

Kanade21:


They did charge high prices, mind you. A SIM card used to cost N10000

[b]They also were able to get loans and whatnot from banks...[/b]simply because you cannot use a phone without paying. (Unlike power, where even if metering becomes universal, people will bypass it. ...and it is that uncertainty regarding funding that is preventing power companies from accessing financing...except what little grants they can scrounge from government and donor agencies)

They charged high but made less profits than now. Go check it. Also, the cost of operations has reduced drastically
@bolded is so untrue. The then mtn CEO mentioned it then that no Nigerian bank was ready to give them loans in 2001.
Adenuga sourced for loans from a French bank using his international connexions.
Nigerian banks have never being risk bearing.
They prefer short term lending with high yield.
That's why you see most of them lending to oil and gas more than any other sector

Toseenlove:



I believe u wella my brother. I didn't know It was u fergie, I heard how u were so diligent and honest then. I worked for free there too.

I am not lying......

Solar power is the way now.

Kanade21:


Even with metering, we still have the laws that prevent DISCOS from setting their prices.

Which, even in an ideal situation of one human, one meter, leaves them short of cash

(And we need quite a lot of cash to fix things up....).

so who should pay for that?

The impoverished citizen of Nigeria? Or the kleptomaniac members of a corrupt government?

Who do you propose should bell this cat

2,500 MW is current national demand. There is still some 2,500MW excess capacity Ghana can offload to Nigeria, if you want what are big brothers for

frankmoney:
only about 2500MW is available for transmission just so u know

Kanade21:


At the end of the day, the money still needs to come from the consumers...and having the states generate their electricity means that people living there are going to pay higher prices for power.

Because I doubt any state or region can afford to pay for power without charging high prices for it.(and that includes oil prodcuing states.).

It does not matter how much we rearrange the furniture...the issue of paying for power is going to be there...like the big fat elephant in the room it is...glaring at us.

If each state is allowed to generate their own electricity, Power will be available and as long as it's available, it will boost manufacturing, boost businesses, create employment, the citizens will be able to make enough money to pay for it.

It won't be an issue @ all.

Eddygourdo:
so who should pay for that?

The impoverished citizen of Nigeria? Or the kleptomaniac members of a corrupt government?

Who do you propose should bell this cat

That's where allowing DISCOS and GENCOS set and charge their prices comes in...which would attract ivnestment.

Oh and, punish corrupt government officials too! (though the problem is, many Nigerians don't really want to fight corruption when it concerns their favourite politican).

PrecisionFx:



If each state is allowed to generate their own electricity, Power will be available and as long as it's available, it will boost manufacturing, boost businesses, create employment, the citizens will be able to make enough money to pay for it.

It won't be an issue @ all.

It still has to be paid for. And most of your states cannot afford it....so it would be ordinary people who would pay the bills out of their pockets....which are going to be high.

In other words,,,we are back to the issue of paying for power. Because, not only does it cost $2.2BILLION to generate 1000mw of power (and I believe each state would need about 10000MW or more).....the money issue is still there. (That means each state needs a budget of 20billion dollars to generate power to the max. We haven't mentioned building the state power grids too).

(Nigeria is not a rich country, and corruption makes the matter worse).

Power is restored.........

Agboriotejoye:

They charged high but made less profits than now. Go check it. Also, the cost of operations has reduced drastically
@bolded is so untrue. The then mtn CEO mentioned it then that no Nigerian bank was ready to give them loans in 2001.
Adenuga sourced for loans from a French bank using his international connexions.
Nigerian banks have never being risk bearing.
They prefer short term lending with high yield.
That's why you see most of them lending to oil and gas more than any other sector

I beleive all the GSM companies took loans from foreign banks....

Plus, I don;t blame Nigerian banks. Nigeria is a poor country. Most people are poor. In such a situaiton, lending is going to be a high risk activity.

Kanade21:

Well, I did not oppose the states generating their power.

The issue is, where is the money going to come from? Is it from the states , most of whom cannot afford to pay salaries? Or is it from restrcuturing...which would leave all the states cut off from oil money, except the South SOuth, Imo and Abia??

No matter how we look at it...at the end of the day, we cannot get power 24/7 for less than N30 per kilowatt hours.

You know where there is a will there is a way or there will be a way to do it.What we clearly lack is the will power and commitment.And like l said before when we really had it good we should have embarked power sector expansion projects like this but we did not and here we have it now.

Kanade21:


No it won't. We are generating 4000mw for about 200million people. 6 hours self is pushing it.

Metering everyone is the way froward. But it still does not solve the cash flow issue.

First, we're not up to 200 million in Nigeria (let's not argue this now). Second, not all homes are connected. Believe me, we can do better than 6 hours and there won't be any "pushing".

Except I'm new in an area, I've never stayed in a neighborhood with poor power supply. I choose carefully.
I don't have problem paying because I get value for my money. But for someone like me that keeps several residences accross the country, this estimated billing of a thing is a big problem.
I've been out of the country since April and I know the bills are still accumulating. And to them, I'm one of the people owing. You see the problem?

Kanade21:


1.So basically, you want power free of charge?

2.What about Obasanjo? Yes, the 16bn was embezzled...but if it was used...it costs 2.21BILLION to generate 1000MW. That means if the money was spent, we would have 5000MW . Taking us up to 9000MW. Lagos needs 10000MW (as at 2010) for 24 hour a day power, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

How do you know it was embezzled? Where you there?
All dis ur armchair intellectualism is fit for the trash.
On the issue of bypassing, from time immemorial, people have been using cheat codes to browse freely and make free calls, that has not stopped telcos from making profits. Same telcos even give free data and free credit to their customers. Nigerian market very wide. Make services available and you're bound to make profit.
Our discos and gencos are not ready to do the hard work that's why they keep complaining of money. They should get their thinking caps on

DeOTR:

First, we're not up to 200 million in Nigeria (let's not argue this now). Second, not all homes are connected. Believe me, we can do better than 6 hours and there won't be any "pushing

".

200million is from the experts, not me. Besides, at least we are around 100million at worst....and 4000mw is not enough.

South Africa generates 44000MW for 45million people, and even they have had rolling blackouts recently.

Except I'm new in an area, I've never stayed in a neighborhood with poor power supply. I choose carefully.
I don't have problem paying because I get value for my money. But for someone like me that keeps several residences accross the country, this estimated billing of a thing is a big problem.
I've been out of the country since April and I know the bills are still accumulating. And to them, I'm one of the people owing. You see the problem?

Well, contact your local DISCO. That's my 'weak' advice

Kanade21:


That's ok, and don't call me sir.



Well, the problem is, power has been privatised, but the money needed to fix the porblem is massive. Also, as someone said here...out of 200million people, 6million Nigerians pay their power bills. That makes the money pot look a bit lean so to speak.

And why won't DISCOS allocate the power to metered areas? Because that's where people pay regularly.

Plus, we are generating 4000mw. We need at least 80000MW for 24 hour power. It costs $2.21 billion to raise 1000mw of power. What we are paying barely covers costs.



Just visit any thread on this site...and see how people abuse DISCO workers attacked trying to stop people bypassing their meters. And it is a national epidemic.



You guys need to remember, POWER HAS BEEN LARGELY PRIVATISED. All government runs these days is the transmission sector. And the transmission sector is dependent on cash they get from the DISCOS....just like the GENCOS. NEPA has ceased to exist.

Government did secure a deal to raise power to 11000mw , but so long as they keep on with the law that prevents DISCOS from controlling the way they charge for power...nothing is going to change. (It's just like government telling you how much you should charge for your goods if you were in business...and the price they force you to set is lower than the cost price..because people are poor)




Bad. And it is because DISCOS are only allowed, by the laws governing the whole privatisation thing, to charge for power below production cost.Thus no money to improve generation capacity.

The fall in oil prices too hasn't helped us either.




And you beleived him? See why some of us say Nigerians cannot read?? You people cry about APC lies, yet you can't see them clearly.

It's a barefaced lie to day only 6m Nigerians pay bills. That's a lie from the pit of hell. You mean less than a quarter of people in Lagos pay power bills throughout Nigeria? You need to hold ur horses man!!

Agboriotejoye:

How do you know it was embezzled? Where you there?
All dis ur armchair intellectualism is fit for the trash.

1.Well, it was the subject of a court case...plus I wanted to make a point...which you have missed anyway.

On the issue of bypassing, from time immemorial, people have been using cheat codes to browse freely and make free calls, that has not stopped telcos from making profits. Same telcos even give free data and free credit to their customers. Nigerian market very wide. Make services available and you're bound to make profit.

And the telcos also aggressively bring in patches that stop the cheat codes. Like the recent one....MTN not only stopped the mess in 72 hours, they even mopped up the stolen bits.

Our discos and gencos are not ready to do the hard work that's why they keep complaining of money. They should get their thinking caps on

Well, when government forces discos to charge at 30% of the actual cost of power (something that Obasanjo did not do for GSM, who have been allowed to set whatever price they want).....what hard work? (Or if you were selling shoes, would you agree if governemnt forced you to sell shoes way below the price you bought them at from the manufacturer? That's what we have been doing for the DISCOS and GENCOS...)

Agboriotejoye:

It's a barefaced lie to day only 6m Nigerians pay bills. That's a lie from the pit of hell. You mean less than a quarter of people in Lagos pay power bills throughout Nigeria? You need to hold ur horses man!!

Well, i got the figure from another Nairalander....plus, many people don't pay for power. Compliance rates in many parts of the country are between 45-60% of customers.

Kanade21:


No, the fact is, you cannot pay N30 for someting costing N40000 NAIRA.

It costs $2.21 billion to increase generation by 1000MW. Lagos needs 10000MW for 24 hour power.

Do the math...and then you will see why power was privatised, and why I say the responsibility for paying for it falls more on our shoulder.

Even this ur math is incorrect. You said we need $100bn to generate enough power and we need 80000MW. Now you say 1000MW costs $2bn meaning we need $160bn.
This shows you're just pulling statistics out of your ass

Kanade21:


The problem with power is that we need at least $100billion to fully replace and upgrade the grid., and even more hundreds of billions to improve generation as well. Especially since the grid is in a mess. And cannot even carry the power safely.

That's why power was privatised in 2014, so as to bring in funding for the sector. The problem is, most Nigerians don't pay for the little power they use. Then the law setting up the privatisation does not allow DISCOS to set the price...driving away foreign investors (and if the govewrnment revokes the law,and prices go up, people will shout opression), the banks don;t want to lend because they know they won't see their cash, and so on.

So far, all we have is the government plan to improve generation to 11000mw...which isn't enough anyway. And to be frank, we need power at 40000 MW before we even start seeing improvements. Lagos needs 10000mw for 24 hour light.

Yes, government has failed...but, without defending APC , PDP too has no answer to the power problem. Nor do any of the parties. Even if your Atiku took over, the sector is still going to face the issues I have enumerated.

It is either Nigerians are ready to face the truth and pay for improved power...government and people, or we forget about it, and keep on using generators.

And yes, before you shout...that is how some of us used to bash PDP until 2013...when this privatisation thing came up, and some of us had to do some reading and face the harsh truth and realise the problem is beyond PDP and APC. Nigeria needs a lot of money, possibly beyond what we have to fix power. Time we faced the truth.

Tell your useless govt to reduce their useless money spent on maintaining the govt. Nigerian leaders spend so much on them selves.

Princedapace:


Tell your useless govt to reduce their useless money spent on maintaining the govt. Nigerian leaders spend so much on them selves.

I believe they should...however, that just adds about a few thousand megawatts to the grid. Not enough for light 24/7

Agboriotejoye:

Even this ur math is incorrect. You said we need $100bn to generate enough power and we need 80000MW. Now you say 1000MW costs $2bn meaning we need $160bn.
This shows you're just pulling statistics out of your ass

$100bn to fix the transmission system...not to generate power , dear lad.

Kanade21:


OK...germans pay N120 per kilowatt hour.

Nigerians pay N50 per kilowatt hour.

And German bills are some of the highest in the world.

What's there to understand.?

You people want German level of power...without German sacrifices.

So you mean if we start paying N120 per kWh we'll have more than enough power like Germany?
You wish

Kanade21:


And that's a big part of why DISCOS and GENCOS cannot raise funds for power in Nigeria.

Nigerians don't want to pay for power. They want it for free. Hence the bribery and corruption

Do you know the process to get a meter? Are Nigerians supposed to pay for the meter you want to use to measure and charge us? You think white ppl like to pay bills? If you meter ppl and they by pass and you pay a huge fine do you think the next neighbor will bypass? The problem is the system

Agboriotejoye:

So you mean if we start paying N120 per kWh we'll have more than enough power like Germany?
You wish

Well, we would have increased investment...and money to pay for a lot of things...like new generating stations, new transmission equipment, etc, etc, etc.

ITbomb:
What if we unhook ourselves from this behemoth national gird and sectioned power transmission.

That's part of restructuring that we are talking about else Nigeria is going nowhere

Oil dey ya head jare. One of the main problems we have is the very clumsy transmission. That ignorant troll talking about money does not realise that our transmission is very inefficient and anything power is very reliant on transmission.

loswhite:
Do you know the process to get a meter? Are Nigerians supposed to pay for the meter you want to use to measure and charge us? You think white ppl like to pay bills? If you meter ppl and they by pass and you pay a huge fine do you think the next neighbor will bypass? The problem is the system

1.Most DISCOS have been rolling out meters since May this year.

2.Yes, you should pay for a meter...because someone made it, and those someones need their salaries paid.

3.People do bypass well well (and in some instances get away with it. My former landlord had to pay a meter bypass fine for a ex tenant who bypassed his meter and ran off ).

ITbomb:
What if we unhook ourselves from this behemoth national gird and sectioned power transmission.

That's part of restructuring that we are talking about else Nigeria is going nowhere

That just redistributes the problem of financing and fixing up a new decentralised grid to the states or regions or countries.

At the end, power supply won't improve till we pay for it.