Abuzola !:

Audhubilahi minal shia rajeem, i fear you people more than i do before,
Show me the verse of inheritance by the Prophets , no long story just summarize it.

And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"
Al-Qur'an, Surah 27, Ayah 16


In Surah Maryam 019.004-6, Allah (swt) refers to the supplication of Prophet Zakariya:

Saying: My Lord! Lo! the bones of me wax feeble and my head is shining with grey hair, and I have never been unblest in prayer to Thee, my Lord. Lo! I fear my kinsfolk after me, since my wife is barren. Oh, give me from Thy presence a successor. Who shall inherit of me and inherit (also) of the house of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, acceptable (unto Thee).
Al-Qur'an, Surah 19, Ayah 4-6

And (remember) Zakariya, when he cried to his Lord: "O my Lord! leave me not without offspring, though thou art the best of inheritors."
Al-Qur'an, Surah al-Anbiya, Ayah 89

Bullshit, is that your property inheritance , oh maybe i misread it, plz show us where any of the prophet mentioned property, show us , in the above verses what we saw was just Prophethood inheritance and not property, Dawud to sulaiman, ibrahim to isma'il and ishaq and then zakariya to Yahya. Lol, ranting of the highest order by shia

Abuzola !:

Bullshit, is that your property inheritance , oh maybe i misread it, plz show us where any of the prophet mentioned property, show us , in the above verses what we saw was just Prophethood inheritance and not property, Dawud to sulaiman, ibrahim to isma'il and ishaq and then zakariya to Yahya. Lol, ranting of the highest order by shia

you indeed misread it!

Saying: My Lord! Lo! the bones of me wax feeble and my head is shining with grey hair, and I have never been unblest in prayer to Thee, my Lord. Lo! I fear my kinsfolk after me, since my wife is barren. Oh, give me from Thy presence a successor. Who shall inherit of me and inherit (also) of the house of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, acceptable (unto Thee).
Al-Qur'an, Surah 19, Ayah 4-6


why was Prophet Zakariya (as) afraid of his near ones?

how do you know it is just prophethood inheritance?

and since when has prophethood being inherited?isnt Allah's choice that grants prophethood?prophets are born as in the case of Jesus (as) in surah Maryam.they dont inherit or take over prophethood from their fathers.Allah makes a human prophet from birth and not after his father's death.

in that case let me too ask you who inherited the prophethood of Muhammad (sa)?you'd say he was the last Prophet,yet still his prophethood in that case can be inherited by his offsprings without them becoming prophets.or the case of advancing prophethood as an object of inheritance,will undoubtedly cast doubt on the "seal of prophethood".it would be impossible to seal it up and say someone is the last prophet.since it is an inherited object,then the object continues till the end of this world to be inherited and must be!

all the above i have solely advanced on reason and logic.if you persist and you refuse to see the truth,i will then bring evidence from tafsir and hadith and also consult the Bible in the case of the previous prophets to prove myself right and prove you wrong.you dont have evidence of what you claim and reason doeesnt support your case.

your case is a clear example of someone who simply fight and utter words not because he wants the truth but for the mere sake of opposition and blindness and clinging on stubbornly to what his desires want.

Mister, you don't have a point, you haven't shown me any single property inheritance, and don't you dare quote me the bible, mister, am not a christian so don't even go there, use the Quran since you lay your emphasy on the Quran that it stated it and now you re quoting prophethood inheritance, we are not arguin if Fatimah should inherit her father prophethood like the people you quoted above, we are talking of pro-per-ty, ogbeni, So just don't spew any more rubbish

Abuzola !:

Mister, you don't have a point, you haven't shown me any single property inheritance, and don't you dare quote me the bible, mister, am not a christian so don't even go there, use the Quran since you lay your emphasy on the Quran that it stated it and now you re quoting prophethood inheritance, we are not arguin if Fatimah should inherit her father prophethood like the people you quoted above, we are talking of pro-per-ty, ogbeni, So just don't spew any more rubbish

i have showed you 3 verses where prophets were inherited by their children.the verse on prophet Zakariya (as) clearly shows that the old man was scared that if he dies without a child his near ones would inherit him.so he prayed for a child.if you cannot understand what is the meaning of inheritance,then i cant help you.you should learn the Quran.

if we are not arguing on whether Fatima (as) should inherit her father or not,then what are we arguing over?please make yourself clear.

I am depressed and feel like crying. While we are all muslims, as that is what we confess, may we live like Muhammad the highest of believers, fight like Muhammad the highest of those who fight for the pleasure of Allah and die like Muhammad (the biggest and highest of the Martyrs) even as he died on his bed.

Prophethood, starting from the dua of Ibrahim (AS) became a thing inherited in his family. We see therefore that Yahyah was a poor man and no wealth did he inherit from Zakariyyah but office of prophethood so that a leader could remain among the house of Yaquub.

It is the prayer of Ibrahim that ended up with Muhammad. We see that not all prophets were sons of prophets, certainly Ibrahim was not a son of a prophet. In fact his father was an idolater. And not every prophet fathered a prophet, certainly Muhammad was not a father of any prophet. No every prophet had a father, certainly Adam and Isa bin Maryam had no father.  What we know though are that prophethood began with Adam the first man and ended with Muhammad (AS to each of the 124,000 of them in human history).

We need to stop arguing about the most mundane. I have not seen a muslim that got depressed that the prophet (AS) died, knowing fully well that no one is above Muhammad in Love of Allah, while Allah Loves more than anyone.

Islam is an advise. Let us give one another adequate advise. Alhamdulillah, we are still young; there is still chance for us to better ourselves. After all we are on this earth, alive now.

@sweetnecta, abuzola

lets not fall for these provocations, just stop responding. I Just dont read the inflammatory posts anymore.

azharuddin:

@sweetnecta, abuzola

lets not fall for these provocations, just stop responding. I Just dont read the inflammatory posts anymore.

heyya,pele!!!

u dey do "notice me", pikin dey tok grammar-"inflammatory"!!!!

lol

Thanks sweetnecta and azhud, am leaving him very soon.

@shia- whats wrong with your head, why are you pretending, we are arguing on property and not prophethood, the fact you posted is all on prophethood and thats not what we are talking about, we are not talking of FATIMAH's prophethood rather 'property'

Abuzola !:

Thanks sweetnecta and azhud, am leaving him very soon.

@shia- whats wrong with your head, why are you pretending, we are arguing on property and not prophethood, the fact you posted is all on prophethood and thats not what we are talking about, we are not talking of FATIMAH's prophethood rather 'property'

dont twist Quranic verses.

those verses talk about inheritance.your abu bakr claims that prophets dont leave inheritance and whatever they leave is sadaqa.he therefore stole the land of Fatima called Fadak that was given to her by her father,the Prophet Muhammad.

in her protest herself,Fatima used the Quran to prove abu bakr wrong.she cited the verses where prophets were inherited materially by their children.she showed that those verses were not about inheritance of prophethood.it is also incredible that the Prophet would tell abu bakr about inheritance but would not tell his own daughter and son in law about it.isnt Ali considered the "gate to the city of knowledge"?why doesnt he know the claim abu bakr made if it was true?also if you cannot understand that prophethood can never be an object of inheritance but rather it is based on Allah's choice,then i cant help you.i also asked you that if prophethood is an object of inheritance then who inherited the Prophet Muhammad's?
how can Fatima,the daughter of Muhammad,claim what doesnt belong to her?who is the thief,abu bakr or Sayyida Fatima (as),the Prophet's daughter (auozubillah)?

i think again you are mis-reading.read carefully without confusion.

you went around the argument and make it seem we are talking prophethood.we are not.you said the verses are about prophethood and not inheritance.

you have to tell me why those verses which talk about inheritance of prophets by their children are not sufficient for you.

A Strange dichotomy exists in the way that some of our sunni brethren (Me being a Rafidhi personally) interpret the verses pertaining to mean ALL the sahaabah.

The Qur'aan mentions the word sahaabah and ashaab in both contexts of good and bad.
but besides that glaring point, lets look at ahadith:

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.578
Narrated 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount." 'Abdullah
added: The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount, and
some of you will be brought in front of me till I will see them and
then they will be taken away from me and I will say, 'O Lord, my
companions!' It will be said, 'You do not know what they did after you
had left.'

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.584
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Some of my companions will come to me at my Lake
Fount, and after I recognize them, they will then be taken away from
me, whereupon I will say, 'My companions!' Then it will be said, 'You
do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after
you." (also Sahih Muslim, part 15, pp 53-54)

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.585
Narrated Abu Hazim from Sahl bin Sa'd:

The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor (forerunner) at the Lake-
Fount, and whoever will pass by there, he will drink from it and
whoever will drink from it, he will never be thirsty. There will come
to me some people whom I will recognize, and they will recognize me,
but a barrier will be placed between me and them." Abu Hazim added:
Nu'man bin Abi 'Aiyash, on hearing me, said. "Did you hear this from
Sahl?" I said, "Yes." He said, " I bear witness that I heard Abu Said
al-Khudri saying the same, adding that the Prophet said: 'I will say:
They are my companions. Then it will be said to me, 'You do not know
what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you left'.
I will say, 'Far removed, far removed (from mercy), those who changed
after me." Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet said, "On the Day of
Resurrection a group of companions will come to me, but will be
driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, 'O Lord
(those are) my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge
as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as
renegades (reverted from the true Islam)."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.586
Narrated Ibn al-Musaiyab:

"Some men from my companions will come to my Lake-Fount and they will
be driven away from it, and I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' It
will be said, 'You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you
left: they turned APOSTATE as renegades (reverted from true Islam)."
(also Sahih Muslim, part 10, p64, also P59)

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 8.587
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "While I was sleeping, a group (of my followers were
brought close to me), and when I recognized them, a man (an angel)
came out from amongst (us) me and them, he said (to them), 'Come
along.' I asked, 'Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah' I
asked, 'what is wrong with them?' He said, 'They turned APOSTATE as
renegades after you left.' Then behold! (Another) group (of my
followers) were brought close to me, and when I recognized them, a man
(an angel) came out from (me and them) he said (to them); Come along.'
I asked, "Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah.' I asked,
What is wrong with them?' He said, 'They turned APOSTATE as renegades
after you left. So I did not see anyone of them escaping except a few
who were like camels without a shepherd."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.592
Narrated Asma 'bint Abu Bakr:

The Prophet said, "I will be standing at the Lake-Fount so that I will
see whom among you will come to me; and some people will be taken away
from me, and I will say, 'O Lord, (they are) from me and from my
followers.' Then it will be said, 'Did you notice what they did after
you? By Allah, they kept on turning on their heels (turned away from
true Islam).' " The sub-narrator, Ibn Abi Mulaika said, "O Allah, we
seek refuge with You from turning on our heels, or being put to trial
in our religion."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.172
Narrated Asma':

The Prophet said, "I will be at my Lake-Fount (Kauthar) waiting for
whoever will come to me. Then some people will be taken away from me
whereupon I will say, 'My followers!' It will be said, 'You do not
know they turned APOSTATES as renegades (deserted their religion).'"
(Ibn Abi Mulaika said, "Allah, we seek refuge with You from turning on
our heels from the (Islamic) religion and from being put to trial".

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.173
Narrated 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount (Kauthar)
and some men amongst you will be brought to me, and when I will try to
hand them some water, they will be pulled away from me by force
whereupon I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' Then the Almighty will
say, 'You do not know what they did after you left, they introduced
new things into the religion after you.'"

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 9.174
Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd:

I heard the Prophet saying, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-Fount
(Kauthar), and whoever will come to it, will drink from it, and
whoever will drink from it, will never become thirsty after that.
There will come to me some people whom I know and they know me, and
then a barrier will be set up between me and them." Abu Sa'id al-
Khudri added that the Prophet further said: "I will say those people
are from me. It will be said, 'You do not know what changes and new
things they did after you.' Then I will say, 'Far removed (from
mercy), far removed (from mercy), those who changed after me!' "

That takes care of that.

26:214 And warn, [O Muhammad], your closest kindred.


26:215 And lower your wing to those who follow you of the believers.


26:216 And if they disobey you, then say, "Indeed, I am disassociated from what you are doing."


26:217 And rely upon the Exalted in Might, the Merciful,


26:218 Who sees you when you arise


26:219 And your movement among those who prostrate.


26:220 Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

Shia shia shia, how many times did i call you, now i believe 100% that you are restless and conceded. You don't even know what to say, lol. ALLAHU AKBAR !

You just go round about pretending, up sunnah !

Ladies and gentlemen, shia has no more point thats why he retorted to use another I.D so as to evade my current challenge, that it is prophethood that was inherited and not property, the verse he quoted above is the proof.
He again had to lie that fatimah quoted the verses, if you ask him for proof he will quote a write up by some individual which i know many of you including me never heard of their name before, saying it is the hadith. Shine your eyes, shia is a dangerous sect like you now know,

Abuzola !:

Shia shia shia, how many times did i call you, now i believe 100% that you are restless and conceded. You don't even know what to say, lol. ALLAHU AKBAR !

You just go round about pretending, up sunnah !

Ladies and gentlemen, shia has no more point thats why he retorted to use another I.D so as to evade my current challenge, that it is prophethood that was inherited and not property, the verse he quoted above is the proof.
He again had to lie that fatimah quoted the verses, if you ask him for proof he will quote a write up by some individual which i know many of you including me never heard of their name before, saying it is the hadith. Shine your eyes, shia is a dangerous sect like you now know,

the problem with you is that you keep assuming.brother "Muharram" is not me.both of us decided to come to this forum from shiachat.com

i do have other ID's which i use when need be,like when i am banned with this one."LagosShia" is my main one.thanks to brother "Muharram" for making his presence felt.


i presented you verses which you say you want without much talk.the verses talk about inheritance.i dont know where you see "prophethood" in those verses.the verses are talking about prophets being inherited by their children.

it is not my fault that you dont even know the names of your books.you likely have the idea that aside from the 6 sahih books,sunnis dont have any other reliable hadith books.that is not my fault sincerely.you have to acquire knowledge.stop parroting rhetoric and expose your ignorance.i have not declined once in presenting you with evidnce.but you keep jumping up and down.

here is evidence for Sayyida Fatima's protest firstly from the mouth of your beloved aisha (now tell me who is the thief,Sayyida Fatima or abu bakr):

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.


the sermon of Fatima (as) in the masjid an-nabawi in protest to abu bakr is long and i will post it and i hope it doesnt disappear as a spam post.you can find it in these references:

[1] Al-Ihtijaj, vol. 1 p. 132-141, Sharh Nahjol Balagha by Ibn Abil Hadeed, vol. 16 p. 210, Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 29 p.216. Some other Historians and scholars mentioned parts from this sermon such as: al-Mas’udi in Murooj ath-Thahab vol. 2 p.311, Ibn Mandhur in Lisan al-Arab vol. 12 p.,331, Kahhalah in A’lam an-Nisa’ vol. 4 p. 116-119, Ibn Tayfur in Balaghat an-Nisa’ p. 414, Ibn Tawus in Kitab at-Tara’if p. 263, Ibn al-Atheer in Ghareeb al-Hadith vol. 4 p. 273.

(my initial reply to you with "LagosShia" has disappeared and my account disabled)

Abuzola !:

Shia shia shia, how many times did i call you, now i believe 100% that you are restless and conceded. You don't even know what to say, lol. ALLAHU AKBAR !

You just go round about pretending, up sunnah !

Ladies and gentlemen, shia has no more point thats why he retorted to use another I.D so as to evade my current challenge, that it is prophethood that was inherited and not property, the verse he quoted above is the proof.
He again had to lie that fatimah quoted the verses, if you ask him for proof he will quote a write up by some individual which i know many of you including me never heard of their name before, saying it is the hadith. Shine your eyes, shia is a dangerous sect like you now know,

the problem with you is that you keep assuming.brother "Muharram" is not me.both of us decided to come to this forum from shiachat.com

i do have other ID's which i use when need be,like when i am banned with this one."LagosShia" is my main one.thanks to brother "Muharram" for making his presence felt.


i presented you verses which you say you want without much talk.the verses talk about inheritance.i dont know where you see "prophethood" in those verses.the verses are talking about prophets being inherited by their children.

it is not my fault that you dont even know the names of your books.you likely have the idea that aside from the 6 sahih books,sunnis dont have any other reliable hadith books.that is not my fault sincerely.you have to acquire knowledge.stop parroting rhetoric and expose your ignorance.i have not declined once in presenting you with evidnce.but you keep jumping up and down.

@Abu Zola!

here is evidence for Sayyida Fatima's protest firstly from the mouth of your beloved aisha (now tell me who is the thief,Sayyida Fatima or abu bakr):

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.


the sermon of Fatima (as) in the masjid an-nabawi in protest to abu bakr is long and i will post it and i hope it doesnt disappear as a spam post.you can find it in these references:

[1] Al-Ihtijaj, vol. 1 p. 132-141, Sharh Nahjol Balagha by Ibn Abil Hadeed, vol. 16 p. 210, Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 29 p.216. Some other Historians and scholars mentioned parts from this sermon such as: al-Mas’udi in Murooj ath-Thahab vol. 2 p.311, Ibn Mandhur in Lisan al-Arab vol. 12 p.,331, Kahhalah in A’lam an-Nisa’ vol. 4 p. 116-119, Ibn Tayfur in Balaghat an-Nisa’ p. 414, Ibn Tawus in Kitab at-Tara’if p. 263, Ibn al-Atheer in Ghareeb al-Hadith vol. 4 p. 273.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.


the sermon of Fatima (as) in the masjid an-nabawi in protest to abu bakr is long and i will post it and i hope it doesnt disappear as a spam post.you can find it in these references:

[1] Al-Ihtijaj, vol. 1 p. 132-141, Sharh Nahjol Balagha by Ibn Abil Hadeed, vol. 16 p. 210, Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 29 p.216. Some other Historians and scholars mentioned parts from this sermon such as: al-Mas’udi in Murooj ath-Thahab vol. 2 p.311, Ibn Mandhur in Lisan al-Arab vol. 12 p.,331, Kahhalah in A’lam an-Nisa’ vol. 4 p. 116-119, Ibn Tayfur in Balaghat an-Nisa’ p. 414, Ibn Tawus in Kitab at-Tara’if p. 263, Ibn al-Atheer in Ghareeb al-Hadith vol. 4 p. 273.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

Only you 6 I.Ds , this is serious, since i have exposed you, my mission is accomplished. Prophet's property is never inherited. See you next year if Allah prolong our life. May He guide us aright amin

We are two different individuals.
All you have exposed is the fact
that you find it difficult to make
replies to either of our rebuttals.

Sincerely hoping you see the light,
Was-Salaam

Admins/ Mods are welcome to
investigate our IPs and their
origins. Nothing to hide.

Abuzola !:

Only you 6 I.Ds , this is serious, since i have exposed you, my mission is accomplished. Prophet's property is never inherited. See you next year if Allah prolong our life. May He guide us aright amin

there is nothing to expose.you can expose me if i hid the fact.but i am the one telling you that i have 4 ID's.i am also telling you that me and brother Muharram are two different people.we met in another forum (Shiachat) and decided to come here.i never knew your entire argument was based on how many usernames i have.

you have asked for hadith,i have presented it.why not now tell me who the thief is:the holy Sayyida Fatima (as) or the usurper abu bakr?

tell me now!!!i dey beg you ooo!!!!

@LagosShia: You asked for Ayah of forgiveness for Muhajiruun (RA). Here is one from Surah Tawbah (Verse 117)

But it covers the prophet (AS), the Ansar (RA).

9: 117: Allah has already forgiven the Prophet and the Muhajireen and the Ansar who followed him in the hour of difficulty after the hearts of a party of them had almost inclined [to doubt], and then He forgave them. Indeed, He was to them Kind and Merciful.




9:118: And [He also forgave] the three who were left behind [and regretted their error] to the point that the earth closed in on them in spite of its vastness and their souls confined them and they were certain that there is no refuge from Allah except in Him. Then He turned to them so they could repent. Indeed, Allah is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

Muslims really need to rethink the foundation of their beliefs.

They go on as if they are on the right path ,but all we hear about them is death & destruction. . .Allah Akbar !

Sweetnecta:

@LagosShia: You asked for Ayah of forgiveness for Muhajiruun (RA). Here is one from Surah Tawbah (Verse 117)

But it covers the prophet (AS), the Ansar (RA).

9: 117: Allah has already forgiven the Prophet and the Muhajireen and the Ansar who followed him in the hour of difficulty after the hearts of a party of them had almost inclined [to doubt], and then He forgave them. Indeed, He was to them Kind and Merciful.




9:118: And [He also forgave] the three who were left behind [and regretted their error] to the point that the earth closed in on them in spite of its vastness and their souls confined them and they were certain that there is no refuge from Allah except in Him. Then He turned to them so they could repent. Indeed, Allah is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

please do not take those verses out of context.those verses refer to particular incidents.and they also vindicate the muslims in the eyes of the kuffar.they do not however refer to the incidents and crimes committed against the Ahlul-Bayt.

i would also want to draw your attention that a verse in the same chapter says:slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.are you saying we should go to the streets and start killing people that are not muslims?or is that the verse refering to a certain group of disbelievers that have offended and killed the muslims?lets take things in their context and have proper understanding through knowledge.

congoshine:

Muslims really need to rethink the foundation of their beliefs.

They go on as if they are on the right path ,but all we hear about them is death & destruction. . .Allah Akbar !

death and destruction does not mean we should think our beliefs.i think you should have said that muslims should rethink about their attitude and situation.muslims should try and learn more and know their religion better.they are too ignorant.that is a problem.

also death and destruction inflicted by those who dont have beliefs or who have beliefs that keep on changing,what would you say to them?christians have killed more people than all the others put together combined.

also muslims are fortunate enough that we have the Quran intact.all we need to do is to learn correctly.the beliefs are there.the doctrines are unchanged.we are not like the catholics or other christian groups with changing doctrines like chamelon.it is understandable that the bible is a book of confusion,with all due respect.you dont even know if sin can be inherited or not because the bible contradicts itself on that and gives two parallel and opposite doctrines,hence we have those who believe in the so called "original sin" imagination and those who believe everyone is to be held acountable individually as ezekiel 18 shows.our doctrines are clear and straightforward.the only difference between the shia and sunnis is imamate.and in that each side has its own clear cut perspective.

@LagosShia: « #119 on: Today at 12:01:27 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 04:20:38 AM
@LagosShia: You asked for Ayah of forgiveness for Muhajiruun (RA). Here is one from Surah Tawbah (Verse 117)

But it covers the prophet (AS), the Ansar (RA).

9: 117: Allah has already forgiven the Prophet and the Muhajireen and the Ansar who followed him in the hour of difficulty after the hearts of a party of them had almost inclined [to doubt], and then He forgave them. Indeed, He was to them Kind and Merciful.

9:118: And [He also forgave] the three who were left behind [and regretted their error] to the point that the earth closed in on them in spite of its vastness and their souls confined them and they were certain that there is no refuge from Allah except in Him. Then He turned to them so they could repent. Indeed, Allah is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

please do not take those verses out of context.those verses refer to particular incidents.and they also vindicate the muslims in the eyes of the kuffar.they do not however refer to the incidents and crimes committed against the Ahlul-Bayt.[/Quote]Which is greater and when wrong it is the Party that can punish; Allah or the Ahlul Bayt? If Allah says all sins are forgiven, then why are you not letting down on the Ahlul Bayt? Even the sin of Shirk is forgiven when a person repents. I dont understand how it is possible to carry Ahlul Bayt beyond shirk? May Allah guide all of us. Amin. He even said He forgave the messenger (AS). Now tell me what sin the messenger committed which he was forgiven by that verse? Tell me which sin[s] the Muhajiruun and and Ansaru (RA) committed needing the same verse to forgive them? Please be specific. At least I can talk to you because we are at least muslims, though your iman is much greater than mine. Perchance, I will learn alot from you. By the way, Allah also cleanse the muslims by mere collection of zakat. It is not the ahlul bayt alone that were cleansed. A man who forgives everyone that offended him before retired to bed was reported to be a man that is in Paradise by Muhammad (AS). Bilal bin Rabah (RA), according to you was not on the side of Ali bin Abi Talib (RA). But Muhammad in his Isra wa Miraj said he say Bilal Rabah in Paradise. This and many others refute placing blames on those who do not support Ali and making the disagreement worthy of hellfire against those who were not on the side of Ali. I wonder why you will even accept that the wife of your prophet will end up in hell? May Allah guide our hearts. Amin.



[Quote]i would also want to draw your attention that a verse in the same chapter says:slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.are you saying we should go to the streets and start killing people that are not muslims?or is that the verse refering to a certain group of disbelievers that have offended and killed the muslims?lets take things in their context and have proper understanding through knowledge.[/Quote]This verse has nothing to do with the verse that I quoted. I also had earlier this week or last quoted verses and then a hadith that supports the view that the people who fought in Badr were forgiven of all their sins, including future sins. This was the reason Hatib (RA) was not killed for spying for the Makkans.
Further, a mere fast on the day of Arafat is a means of forgiving the sin[s] of the future for 1 year. Imagine the actual battle of Badr should be less! Yet even in our present day, there are many events tat you can be involved in that will equal in value. You are my imam. But there is no imam that knows everything. The only one who came close told us that the meaning of Alif Laaam Miiim of Surah Baqarah and others like it are known to Allah, Alone.

Sweetnecta:

@LagosShia: « #119 on: Today at 12:01:27 PM »Which is greater and when wrong it is the Party that can punish; Allah or the Ahlul Bayt? If Allah says all sins are forgiven, then why are you not letting down on the Ahlul Bayt? Even the sin of Shirk is forgiven when a person repents. I dont understand how it is possible to carry Ahlul Bayt beyond shirk? May Allah guide all of us. Amin. He even said He forgave the messenger (AS). Now tell me what sin the messenger committed which he was forgiven by that verse? Tell me which sin[s] the Muhajiruun and and Ansaru (RA) committed needing the same verse to forgive them? Please be specific. At least I can talk to you because we are at least muslims, though your iman is much greater than mine. Perchance, I will learn alot from you. By the way, Allah also cleanse the muslims by mere collection of zakat. It is not the ahlul bayt alone that were cleansed. A man who forgives everyone that offended him before retired to bed was reported to be a man that is in Paradise by Muhammad (AS). Bilal bin Rabah (RA), according to you was not on the side of Ali bin Abi Talib (RA). But Muhammad in his Isra wa Miraj said he say Bilal Rabah in Paradise. This and many others refute placing blames on those who do not support Ali and making the disagreement worthy of hellfire against those who were not on the side of Ali. I wonder why you will even accept that the wife of your prophet will end up in hell? May Allah guide our hearts. Amin.

Please let me first start by telling you that I don’t think my iman is greater than yours because Allah knows best.there is no human barometer for iman.only Allah knows what is in our hearts.

I have explained earlier on to you that there are types of sins which Allah Himself will not forgive because they are not committed against him but men commit those sins against fellow men.it is therefore part of the justice of Allah that only fellow men forgive fellow men.

For example if a good person commit a sin against a bad person,the hasanat (blessings/good deeds) of the good person would be taken and given to the bad person to compensate him on the judgement day.if a bad person commit a sin against a good person and that bad person has no hasanat,then the sayyiaat (bad deeds) of the good person would be erased and added to that of the bad person.as muslims,we believe in the mizan (the scale).we believe in the book that would be handed over to us on judgement day.

Therefore,when a man commit a sin against Allah,Allah has set criteria for them to repent and be forgiven.as in the case of Abu Bakr,the sin they committed was not only limited to disobey of Allah and the order of the Messenger.they inflicted pain on the Ahlul-Bayt and took away their right.if Allah wants to forive Abu Bakr,who am I to tell Allah no?!!!that is not my decision.what is between Allah and His servant,no other servant has the right to pass judgement of heaven and hell.

As for the crimes commited against the Ahlul-Bayt,we should know that we as muslims,it is our duty to promote good and forbid evil as the Quran orders us.therefore,when the family of the Prophet are being maltreated and victimized and their right bestowed by Allah upon them is taken,it is our duty to denounce those who have done them harm.in this case,for the crimes committed against the Ahlul-Bayt,it is the members of the Ahlul-Bayt that will decide on Qiyama whether to tell Allah that they have forgiven those who did harm to them or whether Allah should punish them for what they did to the family of the Prophet.however in this world,if we still go on and say we love those criminals who hurt the family of the Prophet,then we are supporting the criminals and ignoring the pain of the Ahlul-Bayt.that is beyond us and it is a sin for us to do.that is why you see me and the shia stand up and say we love the Ahlul-Bayt and therefore we cannot also love those who harm them.whatever judgement is passed on the Qiyama,we have to do what is right presently.

As for the issue of repentance,there is no greater lesson of repentance that can be learnt and forgiveness that can be emulated than from the battle of Karbala.the commander of Yazeed who cut the road on Imam Hussain and besieged him,later on changed sides and switch mind and rushed to the side of Imam Hussain.he asked Imam Hussain to forgive him and repented.the Imam did and this commander in the name of Hur was the first to be killed fighting for Imam Hussain,the man he besieged.he died fighting for Imam Hussain against the forces he led just a matter of hours before.that is the spirit of islam and that is the spirit of the Ahlul-Bayt and that is what Allah taught us in the Quran.

As for the case of abu bakr and the others who hurt the Ahlul-Bayt,we cannot decide anyone’s fate but we can stand with good and shun evil or at least speak our against it.if they will be forgiven,that is on Qiyama.but in this world,we know what they did was bad and we dislike that and we love the Ahlul-Bayt and dislike those who hurt them.we also learn from the Quran that those who die without repentance will not be forgive.in the case of abu bakr,Fatima,the Prophet’s daughter died and she was buried at night.the Prophet said “anyone who hurt Fatima has hurt me and who hurts me has hurt Allah”.Fatima was buried at night because she was hurt and angry from abu bakr.she died with a grudge against him.she said she will always curse him.also,abu bakr died while the caliphate was not returned to its rightful owner,i.e. Imam Ali.i will not decide on his fate but definitely I am against anyone who hurt the Ahlul-Bayt.i am innocent of anyone who hurts the Ahlul-Bayt.i disassociate myself from anyone who hurts the Ahlul-Bayt.i hate those who hated the Ahlul-Bayt and send the curse upon those who were opponents and enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt.i believe this is straightforward and islamic and justified and logical.and every muslim must do the same.dont you sent blessings upong the Ahlul-Bayt when you pray?dont you say “Allahumma Salli Ala Muhammad Wa Alli Muhammad” (may Alllah bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad) in your prayer?that is the prayer known as salat al-Ibrahimiyya.

As for the Prophet being forgiven his past and future sins,those verses were revealed to vindicate the Prophet from th mouths of the pagans.the pagans used to ascribe abomination to the Prophet for standing against their gods.they deemed the Prophet evil for standing up to idolatry and the tradition of their forefathers.also the Prophet led wars against the kuffar.therefore Allah is telling them and everyone that Muhammad (sa) never committed a sin.otherwise how can it make sense by telling someone his future sins are forgiven when they have not being committed?is that a blank cheque to sin?no!!!!that is to tell you that the Prophet is sinless.in shia islam we believe in the complete sinlessness of the Prophets and the 12 imams.we believe they don’t commit sin.they are not robots but they have knowledge and are purified from sin.from the fear of Allah they have they don’t commit sin.

In this line,if a muslim dies today,can he be held reliable for not praying the salat of tomorrow?no!!!therefore it is only logical that there is a deeper meaning when Allah is telling the Prophet that even his future sins are forgiven.its because Muhammad does not sin against Allah.the Quran in surat an-Najm describe the Prophet in high esteem that no human being have being described.

As for those your hadith have given visa to paradise,some or most of those hadith are faulty.and those that are not faulty should be examined very well.as for hell fire,Allah will decide that.but don’t be surprised if Aisha or Abu Bakr end up in hell or even if I myself end up there.the essence of this life according to islam is for trials and tribulations.even when you are given wealth and riches that is a trial.even when you’re comfortable in your home,that is a trial.the wives of previous prophet (Noah and Lot) were condemned.the son of Noah was condemned and he drowned and Allah told Noah that “he is not from you”!!!

If someone has being granted paradise when the person is still alive,one would definitely think that those people have being granted perfection.Allah cannot give you paradise when yet you can still misbehave and commit major sins.is Allah granting you a password to sin?take the christians for example who say that they are saved because Jesus died for their sins.are the christians sinless today?what about those christians who sin and commit evil and still believe in the precarious sacrifice?would they not be judged?is anyone above judgement?for as long as we live,we are prone to sin and we will be judged for our actions.those you hadiths say were granted paradise were later on far from perfection and were corrupt.take Usthman’s rule for example who even sunnis accept was corrupt and he favored his relatives when he was in power.we can only say that those who were aroung the messenger have a higher responsibility to act better than us and they should be exemplary.if not then they are worse because they have met the Prophet himself.

This verse has nothing to do with the verse that I quoted. I also had earlier this week or last quoted verses and then a hadith that supports the view that the people who fought in Badr were forgiven of all their sins, including future sins. This was the reason Hatib (RA) was not killed for spying for the Makkans.
Further, a mere fast on the day of Arafat is a means of forgiving the sin[s] of the future for 1 year. Imagine the actual battle of Badr should be less! Yet even in our present day, there are many events tat you can be involved in that will equal in value. You are my imam. But there is no imam that knows everything. The only one who came close told us that the meaning of Alif Laaam Miiim of Surah Baqarah and others like it are known to Allah, Alone.

The people who fought in badr and those with the Prophet were forgiven their past sins.that is fine with me.as for future sins,I don’t think so.only the Prophet is mentioned in the Quran in surat al-fath to have being forgiven even future sins.that is because only the Prophet among those sahaba is faultless.in the Quran we read in more than one place,how Allah questioned and cautioned and warned the sahaba.teh foremost that can come to my mine is Umar.Umar abandoned the Prophet in the battle of Uhud because there was rumor that the Prophet was killed.the Quran then says:

Many Messengers have gone before him; if then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" [3:144]

This shows that if they turn back upon their heels into disbelief,then the consequences would be there.we cannot say Allah forgave anyone their future other than the sinless and chosen Prophets and Messengers and Imams.

When we do acts of Ibadah we are rewarded greatly no doubt.i have already explained how hisab (account) works.we also know that there is minor and major sin.the justice of Allah is perfect.nontheless,we as individuals must shun evil and enjoin good and love the good people and dislike the bad people.its part of taqwa.you just cannot do evil and still say I have fasted and prayed and gone to hajj.when I say evil,I don’t even mean things like fornicating and drinking.am not about harming others and not just harming oneself.harming oneslf and neglecting your duty to Allah,Allah will call you to order for that.harming others and taking their right Allah will judge you for that and unless the ones you harmed for give you,you will be held accountable.its either your goodness would be reduced and given the person you harmed or your bad deeds would be added to from the bad deeds of the person you harmed.read surat al-Zilzal:he who does an atom weight of good shall reap it and he who does an atom weight of evil shall reap it.

Sweetnecta:

@LagosShia: « #119 on: Today at 12:01:27 PM »Which is greater and when wrong it is the Party that can punish; Allah or the Ahlul Bayt? If Allah says all sins are forgiven, then why are you not letting down on the Ahlul Bayt? Even the sin of Shirk is forgiven when a person repents. I dont understand how it is possible to carry Ahlul Bayt beyond shirk? May Allah guide all of us. Amin. He even said He forgave the messenger (AS). Now tell me what sin the messenger committed which he was forgiven by that verse? Tell me which sin[s] the Muhajiruun and and Ansaru (RA) committed needing the same verse to forgive them? Please be specific. At least I can talk to you because we are at least muslims, though your iman is much greater than mine. Perchance, I will learn alot from you. By the way, Allah also cleanse the muslims by mere collection of zakat. It is not the ahlul bayt alone that were cleansed. A man who forgives everyone that offended him before retired to bed was reported to be a man that is in Paradise by Muhammad (AS). Bilal bin Rabah (RA), according to you was not on the side of Ali bin Abi Talib (RA). But Muhammad in his Isra wa Miraj said he say Bilal Rabah in Paradise. This and many others refute placing blames on those who do not support Ali and making the disagreement worthy of hellfire against those who were not on the side of Ali. I wonder why you will even accept that the wife of your prophet will end up in hell? May Allah guide our hearts. Amin.

Please let me first start by telling you that I don’t think my iman is greater than yours because Allah knows best.there is no human barometer for iman.only Allah knows what is in our hearts.

I have explained earlier on to you that there are types of sins which Allah Himself will not forgive because they are not committed against him but men commit those sins against fellow men.it is therefore part of the justice of Allah that only fellow men forgive fellow men.

For example if a good person commit a sin against a bad person,the hasanat (blessings/good deeds) of the good person would be taken and given to the bad person to compensate him on the judgement day.if a bad person commit a sin against a good person and that bad person has no hasanat,then the sayyiaat (bad deeds) of the good person would be erased and added to that of the bad person.as muslims,we believe in the mizan (the scale).we believe in the book that would be handed over to us on judgement day.

Therefore,when a man commit a sin against Allah,Allah has set criteria for them to repent and be forgiven.as in the case of Abu Bakr,the sin they committed was not only limited to disobey of Allah and the order of the Messenger.they inflicted pain on the Ahlul-Bayt and took away their right.if Allah wants to forive Abu Bakr,who am I to tell Allah no?!!!that is not my decision.what is between Allah and His servant,no other servant has the right to pass judgement of heaven and hell.

As for the crimes commited against the Ahlul-Bayt,we should know that we as muslims,it is our duty to promote good and forbid evil as the Quran orders us.therefore,when the family of the Prophet are being maltreated and victimized and their right bestowed by Allah upon them is taken,it is our duty to denounce those who have done them harm.in this case,for the crimes committed against the Ahlul-Bayt,it is the members of the Ahlul-Bayt that will decide on Qiyama whether to tell Allah that they have forgiven those who did harm to them or whether Allah should punish them for what they did to the family of the Prophet.however in this world,if we still go on and say we love those criminals who hurt the family of the Prophet,then we are supporting the criminals and ignoring the pain of the Ahlul-Bayt.that is beyond us and it is a sin for us to do.that is why you see me and the shia stand up and say we love the Ahlul-Bayt and therefore we cannot also love those who harm them.whatever judgement is passed on the Qiyama,we have to do what is right presently.

As for the issue of repentance,there is no greater lesson of repentance that can be learnt and forgiveness that can be emulated than from the battle of Karbala.the commander of Yazeed who cut the road on Imam Hussain and besieged him,later on changed sides and switch mind and rushed to the side of Imam Hussain.he asked Imam Hussain to forgive him and repented.the Imam did and this commander in the name of Hur was the first to be killed fighting for Imam Hussain,the man he besieged.he died fighting for Imam Hussain against the forces he led just a matter of hours before.that is the spirit of islam and that is the spirit of the Ahlul-Bayt and that is what Allah taught us in the Quran.

As for the case of abu bakr and the others who hurt the Ahlul-Bayt,we cannot decide anyone’s fate but we can stand with good and shun evil or at least speak our against it.if they will be forgiven,that is on Qiyama.but in this world,we know what they did was bad and we dislike that and we love the Ahlul-Bayt and dislike those who hurt them.we also learn from the Quran that those who die without repentance will not be forgive.in the case of abu bakr,Fatima,the Prophet’s daughter died and she was buried at night.the Prophet said “anyone who hurt Fatima has hurt me and who hurts me has hurt Allah”.Fatima was buried at night because she was hurt and angry from abu bakr.she died with a grudge against him.she said she will always curse him.also,abu bakr died while the caliphate was not returned to its rightful owner,i.e. Imam Ali.i will not decide on his fate but definitely I am against anyone who hurt the Ahlul-Bayt.i am innocent of anyone who hurts the Ahlul-Bayt.i disassociate myself from anyone who hurts the Ahlul-Bayt.i hate those who hated the Ahlul-Bayt and send the curse upon those who were opponents and enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt.i believe this is straightforward and islamic and justified and logical.and every muslim must do the same.dont you sent blessings upong the Ahlul-Bayt when you pray?dont you say “Allahumma Salli Ala Muhammad Wa Alli Muhammad” (may Alllah bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad) in your prayer?that is the prayer known as salat al-Ibrahimiyya.

As for the Prophet being forgiven his past and future sins,those verses were revealed to vindicate the Prophet from th mouths of the pagans.the pagans used to ascribe abomination to the Prophet for standing against their gods.they deemed the Prophet evil for standing up to idolatry and the tradition of their forefathers.also the Prophet led wars against the kuffar.therefore Allah is telling them and everyone that Muhammad (sa) never committed a sin.otherwise how can it make sense by telling someone his future sins are forgiven when they have not being committed?is that a blank cheque to sin?no!!!!that is to tell you that the Prophet is sinless.in shia islam we believe in the complete sinlessness of the Prophets and the 12 imams.we believe they don’t commit sin.they are not robots but they have knowledge and are purified from sin.from the fear of Allah they have they don’t commit sin.

In this line,if a muslim dies today,can he be held reliable for not praying the salat of tomorrow?no!!!therefore it is only logical that there is a deeper meaning when Allah is telling the Prophet that even his future sins are forgiven.its because Muhammad does not sin against Allah.the Quran in surat an-Najm describe the Prophet in high esteem that no human being have being described.

As for those your hadith have given visa to paradise,some or most of those hadith are faulty.and those that are not faulty should be examined very well.as for hell fire,Allah will decide that.but don’t be surprised if Aisha or Abu Bakr end up in hell or even if I myself end up there.the essence of this life according to islam is for trials and tribulations.even when you are given wealth and riches that is a trial.even when you’re comfortable in your home,that is a trial.the wives of previous prophet (Noah and Lot) were condemned.the son of Noah was condemned and he drowned and Allah told Noah that “he is not from you”!!!

If someone has being granted paradise when the person is still alive,one would definitely think that those people have being granted perfection.Allah cannot give you paradise when yet you can still misbehave and commit major sins.is Allah granting you a password to sin?take the christians for example who say that they are saved because Jesus died for their sins.are the christians sinless today?what about those christians who sin and commit evil and still believe in the precarious sacrifice?would they not be judged?is anyone above judgement?for as long as we live,we are prone to sin and we will be judged for our actions.those you hadiths say were granted paradise were later on far from perfection and were corrupt.take Usthman’s rule for example who even sunnis accept was corrupt and he favored his relatives when he was in power.we can only say that those who were aroung the messenger have a higher responsibility to act better than us and they should be exemplary.if not then they are worse because they have met the Prophet himself.

Sweetnecta:

@LagosShia: « #119 on: Today at 12:01:27 PM »Which is greater and when wrong it is the Party that can punish; Allah or the Ahlul Bayt? If Allah says all sins are forgiven, then why are you not letting down on the Ahlul Bayt? Even the sin of Shirk is forgiven when a person repents. I dont understand how it is possible to carry Ahlul Bayt beyond shirk? May Allah guide all of us. Amin. He even said He forgave the messenger (AS). Now tell me what sin the messenger committed which he was forgiven by that verse? Tell me which sin[s] the Muhajiruun and and Ansaru (RA) committed needing the same verse to forgive them? Please be specific. At least I can talk to you because we are at least muslims, though your iman is much greater than mine. Perchance, I will learn alot from you. By the way, Allah also cleanse the muslims by mere collection of zakat. It is not the ahlul bayt alone that were cleansed. A man who forgives everyone that offended him before retired to bed was reported to be a man that is in Paradise by Muhammad (AS). Bilal bin Rabah (RA), according to you was not on the side of Ali bin Abi Talib (RA). But Muhammad in his Isra wa Miraj said he say Bilal Rabah in Paradise. This and many others refute placing blames on those who do not support Ali and making the disagreement worthy of hellfire against those who were not on the side of Ali. I wonder why you will even accept that the wife of your prophet will end up in hell? May Allah guide our hearts. Amin.

Please let me first start by telling you that I don’t think my iman is greater than yours because Allah knows best.there is no human barometer for iman.only Allah knows what is in our hearts.

I have explained earlier on to you that there are types of sins which Allah Himself will not forgive because they are not committed against him but men commit those sins against fellow men.it is therefore part of the justice of Allah that only fellow men forgive fellow men.

For example if a good person commit a sin against a bad person,the hasanat (blessings/good deeds) of the good person would be taken and given to the bad person to compensate him on the judgement day.if a bad person commit a sin against a good person and that bad person has no hasanat,then the sayyiaat (bad deeds) of the good person would be erased and added to that of the bad person.as muslims,we believe in the mizan (the scale).we believe in the book that would be handed over to us on judgement day.

Therefore,when a man commit a sin against Allah,Allah has set criteria for them to repent and be forgiven.as in the case of Abu Bakr,the sin they committed was not only limited to disobey of Allah and the order of the Messenger.they inflicted pain on the Ahlul-Bayt and took away their right.if Allah wants to forive Abu Bakr,who am I to tell Allah no?!!!that is not my decision.what is between Allah and His servant,no other servant has the right to pass judgement of heaven and hell.

As for the crimes commited against the Ahlul-Bayt,we should know that we as muslims,it is our duty to promote good and forbid evil as the Quran orders us.therefore,when the family of the Prophet are being maltreated and victimized and their right bestowed by Allah upon them is taken,it is our duty to denounce those who have done them harm.in this case,for the crimes committed against the Ahlul-Bayt,it is the members of the Ahlul-Bayt that will decide on Qiyama whether to tell Allah that they have forgiven those who did harm to them or whether Allah should punish them for what they did to the family of the Prophet.however in this world,if we still go on and say we love those criminals who hurt the family of the Prophet,then we are supporting the criminals and ignoring the pain of the Ahlul-Bayt.that is beyond us and it is a sin for us to do.that is why you see me and the shia stand up and say we love the Ahlul-Bayt and therefore we cannot also love those who harm them.whatever judgement is passed on the Qiyama,we have to do what is right presently.

As for the issue of repentance,there is no greater lesson of repentance that can be learnt and forgiveness that can be emulated than from the battle of Karbala.the commander of Yazeed who cut the road on Imam Hussain and besieged him,later on changed sides and switch mind and rushed to the side of Imam Hussain.he asked Imam Hussain to forgive him and repented.the Imam did and this commander in the name of Hur was the first to be killed fighting for Imam Hussain,the man he besieged.he died fighting for Imam Hussain against the forces he led just a matter of hours before.that is the spirit of islam and that is the spirit of the Ahlul-Bayt and that is what Allah taught us in the Quran.

As for the case of abu bakr and the others who hurt the Ahlul-Bayt,we cannot decide anyone’s fate but we can stand with good and shun evil or at least speak our against it.if they will be forgiven,that is on Qiyama.but in this world,we know what they did was bad and we dislike that and we love the Ahlul-Bayt and dislike those who hurt them.we also learn from the Quran that those who die without repentance will not be forgive.in the case of abu bakr,Fatima,the Prophet’s daughter died and she was buried at night.the Prophet said “anyone who hurt Fatima has hurt me and who hurts me has hurt Allah”.Fatima was buried at night because she was hurt and angry from abu bakr.she died with a grudge against him.she said she will always curse him.also,abu bakr died while the caliphate was not returned to its rightful owner,i.e. Imam Ali.i will not decide on his fate but definitely I am against anyone who hurt the Ahlul-Bayt.i am innocent of anyone who hurts the Ahlul-Bayt.i disassociate myself from anyone who hurts the Ahlul-Bayt.i hate those who hated the Ahlul-Bayt and send the curse upon those who were opponents and enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt.i believe this is straightforward and islamic and justified and logical.and every muslim must do the same.dont you sent blessings upong the Ahlul-Bayt when you pray?dont you say “Allahumma Salli Ala Muhammad Wa Alli Muhammad” (may Alllah bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad) in your prayer?that is the prayer known as salat al-Ibrahimiyya.

As for the Prophet being forgiven his past and future sins,those verses were revealed to vindicate the Prophet from th mouths of the pagans.the pagans used to ascribe abomination to the Prophet for standing against their gods.they deemed the Prophet evil for standing up to idolatry and the tradition of their forefathers.also the Prophet led wars against the kuffar.therefore Allah is telling them and everyone that Muhammad (sa) never committed a sin.otherwise how can it make sense by telling someone his future sins are forgiven when they have not being committed?is that a blank cheque to sin?no!!!!that is to tell you that the Prophet is sinless.in shia islam we believe in the complete sinlessness of the Prophets and the 12 imams.we believe they don’t commit sin.they are not robots but they have knowledge and are purified from sin.from the fear of Allah they have they don’t commit sin.

In this line,if a muslim dies today,can he be held reliable for not praying the salat of tomorrow?no!!!therefore it is only logical that there is a deeper meaning when Allah is telling the Prophet that even his future sins are forgiven.its because Muhammad does not sin against Allah.the Quran in surat an-Najm describe the Prophet in high esteem that no human being have being described.

As for those your hadith have given visa to paradise,some or most of those hadith are faulty.and those that are not faulty should be examined very well.as for hell fire,Allah will decide that.but don’t be surprised if Aisha or Abu Bakr end up in hell or even if I myself end up there.the essence of this life according to islam is for trials and tribulations.even when you are given wealth and riches that is a trial.even when you’re comfortable in your home,that is a trial.the wives of previous prophet (Noah and Lot) were condemned.the son of Noah was condemned and he drowned and Allah told Noah that “he is not from you”!!!

If someone has being granted paradise when the person is still alive,one would definitely think that those people have being granted perfection.Allah cannot give you paradise when yet you can still misbehave and commit major sins.is Allah granting you a password to sin?take the christians for example who say that they are saved because Jesus died for their sins.are the christians sinless today?what about those christians who sin and commit evil and still believe in the precarious sacrifice?would they not be judged?is anyone above judgement?for as long as we live,we are prone to sin and we will be judged for our actions.those you hadiths say were granted paradise were later on far from perfection and were corrupt.take Usthman’s rule for example who even sunnis accept was corrupt and he favored his relatives when he was in power.we can only say that those who were aroung the messenger have a higher responsibility to act better than us and they should be exemplary.if not then they are worse because they have met the Prophet himself.

This verse has nothing to do with the verse that I quoted. I also had earlier this week or last quoted verses and then a hadith that supports the view that the people who fought in Badr were forgiven of all their sins, including future sins. This was the reason Hatib (RA) was not killed for spying for the Makkans.
Further, a mere fast on the day of Arafat is a means of forgiving the sin[s] of the future for 1 year. Imagine the actual battle of Badr should be less! Yet even in our present day, there are many events tat you can be involved in that will equal in value. You are my imam. But there is no imam that knows everything. The only one who came close told us that the meaning of Alif Laaam Miiim of Surah Baqarah and others like it are known to Allah, Alone.

The people who fought in badr and those with the Prophet were forgiven their past sins.that is fine with me.as for future sins,I don’t think so.only the Prophet is mentioned in the Quran in surat al-fath to have being forgiven even future sins.that is because only the Prophet among those sahaba is faultless.in the Quran we read in more than one place,how Allah questioned and cautioned and warned the sahaba.teh foremost that can come to my mine is Umar.Umar abandoned the Prophet in the battle of Uhud because there was rumor that the Prophet was killed.the Quran then says:

Many Messengers have gone before him; if then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" [3:144]

This shows that if they turn back upon their heels into disbelief,then the consequences would be there.we cannot say Allah forgave anyone their future other than the sinless and chosen Prophets and Messengers and Imams.

When we do acts of Ibadah we are rewarded greatly no doubt.i have already explained how hisab (account) works.we also know that there is minor and major sin.the justice of Allah is perfect.nontheless,we as individuals must shun evil and enjoin good and love the good people and dislike the bad people.its part of taqwa.you just cannot do evil and still say I have fasted and prayed and gone to hajj.when I say evil,I don’t even mean things like fornicating and drinking.am not about harming others and not just harming oneself.harming oneslf and neglecting your duty to Allah,Allah will call you to order for that.harming others and taking their right Allah will judge you for that and unless the ones you harmed for give you,you will be held accountable.its either your goodness would be reduced and given the person you harmed or your bad deeds would be added to from the bad deeds of the person you harmed.read surat al-Zilzal:he who does an atom weight of good shall reap it and he who does an atom weight of evil shall reap it.

very nice thread so far,and a very good job done by lagosshia,everyone too welldone,

Abuzola is too insultive,and you cant use insult to win a debate,after truth is made manifest

A thread i love so far,it unravel the truth,some people should accept to admit wrong done by people and not overlooking it like its a mere thing or not important,also,i know its a good dua to say"may Allah guide u or us as we normally say,but,the question is, is it in comformity with your intention?cos some people just say it to make the other party looks as if hes chatting rubbish or not on the path,and the most hateful part is that its goes with a tone of sarcasm,so lets our intention go with it and not causing more sins on our heads

May Allah forgive us all,amin.Asalamu Aleikum to you all

uplawal:

very nice thread so far,and a very good job done by lagosshia,everyone too welldone,

Abuzola is too insultive,and you cant use insult to win a debate,after truth is made manifest

A thread i love so far,it unravel the truth,some people should accept to admit wrong done by people and not overlooking it like its a mere thing or not important,also,i know its a good dua to say"may Allah guide u or us as we normally say,but,the question is, is it in comformity with your intention?cos some people just say it to make the other party looks as if hes chatting rubbish or not on the path,and the most hateful part is that its goes with a tone of sarcasm,so lets our intention go with it and not causing more sins on our heads

May Allah forgive us all,amin.Asalamu Aleikum to you all

thank you sister!
may Allah bless you and guide us all.

may the truth for the sake of the love of the Ahlul-Bayt which Allah made incumbent on us in the Quran manifest its light in our hearts.
Allahumma ameen!!

Amin,welldone,but personally i dnt buy their beating of themselves and inflicting bloody wound though