larride:


Your late brother never came to my house before, so he doesn’t exist. Beautiful.



I said Jesus is REAL and he Exist. I’m not doing his existence. It is both of you that are denying his existence. So bring proof that he doesn’t exist.

The bolded is a classical example of the fallacy of appealing to ignorance. It is like asking you to prove to me that I don't have 1 billion dollars.

The onus is on you to provide the proof.

Why use scientific knowledge to disprove the existence of God portrayed by various religions? Science is based on material proof and religion is based on faith. You may not accept the idea of 'God' or religion, but asking for material proof deprives religion of it's core concept (faith).

I think the argument of God's non-existence is hinged on the premise that material science is all there is to life. Some of your fellow humans believe otherwise.

pes2019:
Since you use scripture first:

The first scripture here, man has been told what will come through acquiring several knowledge. It makes them questions God.

Question : At what point did you become atheist, we're u born atheist?

God is all knowing God, he knew that this will come up at some point in time so he said in Romans 1:22 & 25
KJV:Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
25: KJV:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. . Base on research and proclaimed reality, why couldn't a developed country as China foretell the coming of coronavirus bro.
Plz be foolish so to be wise my brother.

1 Corinthians 1:20-21
KJV:Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21
KJV:For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


It already foolishness, having the wisdom of this world, because it makes us question the existence of God, it took years for man to conclusively tell the rotation of earth round the sun, but the big question is can man ever stop researching, it's capital no, because in God's creation you can never know it all, man die trying to find it out, the documented knowledge is passed on to his group to continue but yet the earth remains, and inconclusive the research becomes.
Before we hear about 9 planets but now it's more than that, isn't that enough to acknowledge the existence of God.

Note: With the knowledge of all scientist put together, they can't fathom the existence of earth nor God, bro there are so many abandon research work, pls take up one. Bible call them

Psalm 14:1
NIV:The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

1 corinthians 3:19-20

NIV:For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”;

NIV:and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”



Jeremiah 9:23-24
KJV:Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24
KJV:But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.[b]2 thimoty 3:7 KJV:Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Ok fine you have succeeded in quoting the bible all through and demonstrates that you are arguing in circles.

The first question is why should I treat the bible better than a fictional book?

Route99:
Why use scientific knowledge to disprove the existence of God portrayed by various religions? Science is based on material proof and religion is based on faith. You may not accept the idea of 'God' or religion, but asking for material proof deprives religion of it's core concept (faith).

I think the argument of God's non-existence is hinged on the premise that material science is all there is to life. Some of your fellow humans believe otherwise.

Why don't you belive in Islamic teachings? Or Hindu?

NuissancePolice:


The bolded is a classical example of the fallacy of appealing to ignorance. It is like asking you to prove to me that I don't have 1 billion dollars.

The onus is on you to provide the proof.

Bro honestly. I don't know why these people don't want to do engaging arguments.

Mitocyan:


Why don't you belive in Islamic teachings? Or Hindu?

I never stated a particular religion.

Route99:
Why use scientific knowledge to disprove the existence of God portrayed by various religions? Science is based on material proof and religion is based on faith. You may not accept the idea of 'God' or religion, but asking for material proof deprives religion of it's core concept (faith).

I think the argument of God's non-existence is hinged on the premise that material science is all there is to life. Some of your fellow humans believe otherwise.

No one is using science to prove the existence of God. Not yet. Asking questions is a universally valid way to verify claims.

Route99:

I never stated a particular religion.

Ok are you an atheist? I want to know what side of the divide you fall in. I'm sorry.

Route99:

I never stated a particular religion.

Ok I'm sorry. Are u an atheist? I want to know what side of the divide you fall on.

Mitocyan:

Bro honestly. I don't know why these people don't want to do engaging arguments.

Funny thing is they never attended to any of the 10 questions posited in the original post.

NuissancePolice:



Your entire argument is based on the premise that the bible in itself is indeed an authority but I do not want to debate that inorder not to lose track of the subject. Assuming the bible is infact God's word and a record of events that actually happened, the question is can you point to any christian in our era that has done any "work" greater than Jesus with evidence? E.g. Jesus christ plugged back the ear of one of his disciples that were chopped off, turned water into wine, walked on water etc. These are objective proofs that prove supernaturality.

2.

@bolded, lets say that the people you referred to here did not believe. Well, how about you? Have you experienced any of these supernatural events through you? Have you done any works atleast comparable with that of Jesus christ since you believe? The converse implication of the bold claim that says "these signs shall follow them that believe" is that if you do not experience them, you are an unbeliever. Are you a believer based on these?



What I am doing is beyond looking for miracles. I am only probing the validity of your bible based on what it claims. I am simply just putting it to test just the way I would if any scientist come up with a new discovery. Imagine a scientist coming up with an equation that can be used to build a HIV cure or vaccine, shouldn't the equation be tested? Be reasonable. Not everyone is looking to mock God. If your bible had said, those that believe in him will have green blood for instance, that is what I will ask you to show me. If indeed God is real, then he must honour everything he said in his book else he is either a fraud or his book was made up by people.

Good that we are getting somewhere.

1. You have seen a lot of Pastors that have done miracles like Bishop Oyedapo, Pastor Adeboye, Oyakilome and the likes but you will still question their miracles, therefore this miracles have to happen directly to you before you can believe it. I have seen my Pastor heal a lame man on wheelchair, I have seen a Pastor pray for a woman that has no womb for the fruit of the womb and God sustain a pregnancy in her.

2. What’s to say you will not start to question my own personal experiences once I share them?

There are some called into the ministry of deliverance, some into the ministry of intercession and some into the ministry of teaching. We have function with the capabilities that the Holy Spirit has given us. Have I prayed for the sick and he was healed? Yes. Have I turned water to wine? No. In my 200l, we were preparing for drama night and our rehearsal were vigil every Wednesday and I have Statistics class every Thursday morning by 7am. Have I prayed for the class to be rescheduled to another day and the class was rescheduled to Sat? YES. Have I tread on serpent? No. Have I slept on scorpion unknowingly while in the Uni and I was not bitten? YES. There are lots of personal experience that I have serving this God.

3. If you want to probe the Bible, then you will need to go on a personal journey of self discovery. If you want to test the validity of God, put your trust in him and ask him to show himself to you. You will get your answer.

NuissancePolice:


No one is using science to prove the existence of God. Not yet. Asking questions is a universally valid way to verify claims.

You don't get my point. The core concept of science is proof of existence before believing. Why apply that concept to the existence of God in religion, which is hinged on faith?

NuissancePolice:


The bolded is a classical example of the fallacy of appealing to ignorance. It is like asking you to prove to me that I don't have 1 billion dollars.

The onus is on you to provide the proof.

This is not a correct analogy pls.

Before I can ask you to prove that you don’t have 2 billion dollars, we must have had a discussion that centered on the subject matter - Billion dollars. Then during the discussion you say “I have 1 billion dollars because I have so n so and it’s recorded in so so” Yet I said it’s a lie, you don’t have 1 billion dollars, I must have a reason to disprove that you don’t.

You are the one with the allegation that Jesus Christ isn’t real, the burden of proof is on you. I did not bring you to this court of public opinion, you did.

Mitocyan:

Ok are you an atheist? I want to know what side of the divide you fall in. I'm sorry.

. It's complicated.

larride:


Good that we are getting somewhere.

1. You have seen a lot of Pastors that have done miracles like Bishop Oyedapo, Pastor Adeboye, Oyakilome and the likes but you will still question their miracles, therefore this miracles have to happen directly to you before you can believe it. I have seen my Pastor heal a lame man on wheelchair, I have seen a Pastor pray for a woman that has no womb for the fruit of the womb and God sustain a pregnancy in her.

2. What’s to say you will not start to question my own personal experiences once I share them?

There are some called into the ministry of deliverance, some into the ministry of intercession and some into the ministry of teaching. We have function with the capabilities that the Holy Spirit has given us. Have I prayed for the sick and he was healed? Yes. Have I turned water to wine? No. In my 200l, we were preparing for drama night and our rehearsal were vigil every Wednesday and I have Statistics class every Thursday morning by 7am. Have I prayed for the class to be rescheduled to another day and the class was rescheduled to Sat? YES. Have I tread on serpent? No. Have I slept on scorpion unknowingly while in the Uni and I was not bitten? YES. There are lots of personal experience that I have serving this God.

3. If you want to probe the Bible, then you will need to go on a personal journey of self discovery. If you want to test the validity of God, put your trust in him and ask him to show himself to you. You will get your answer.

Please can your Pastor heal Ayefele so that we can know it is not staged. Because that is what they all are. I don't care the Pastors you call. I know they'll tell you it is God that is doing it. But that is just the simple modus operandi of scammers, charlatans and snake oil sales man. It works for them and people like you end up believing and inviting people and they make more money from offering and tithes and buy private jets. They do charities too to have a greater stronghold on the weak masses so that even if someone's eyes open the followers would descend on him. How is this business model lost on smart people. Just how?

Please don't let me choke with laughter. You have healed the sick before? Wow. Why don't you go to the hospitals and save people their monies by healing them all. Oh you will say it's not you but its God that does the healing right . Or have you joined the crew of snake oils sales men?

Route99:

. It's complicated.

Lool ok oo

Mitocyan:

At least you say that my late brother never came to your house therefore he doesn't exist. By extension, it follows that Jesus doesn't exist since he never came to your house. I suppose we can proceed from here? Oh and by the way. This is not supposed to appear like a fight but an intellectual discuss so forgive all my attempt at making it appear like one. I admonish you not to make it appear like one also.

So you agree with me that your brother doesn’t exist because I never saw him? Right?

No offense taken whatsoever.

larride:


Your late brother never came to my house before, so he doesn’t exist. Beautiful.



I said Jesus is REAL and he Exist. I’m not doing his existence. [b]It is both of you that are denying his existence. [\b]So bring proof that he doesn’t exist.

Prove that he does exist. You can't just tell me to believe you have a ring on your finger without showing me.

We can do this all day you know.

larride:


So you agree with me that your brother doesn’t exist because I never saw him? Right?

No offense taken whatsoever.

Yes I agree. I don't have a late brother so no offense at all I understand it is for the purpose of this discussion.

In similar vain you agree that Jesus doesn't exist right cos you have never seen him?

Mitocyan:


Ok fine you have succeeded in quoting the bible all through and demonstrates that you are arguing in circles.

The first question is why should I treat the bible better than a fictional book?

Note: You haven't answered my question either.
When did you become atheist, were u born so?

Bible is never a fiction and has no comparison

From ur question, u said to treat bible Better, it's either you choose bible or story books. If bible I have sth good to tell you about it

The gift of God is without repentance, that gift is choice inclusive

Mitocyan:


Please can your Pastor heal Ayefele so that we can know it is not staged. Because that is what they all are. I don't care the Pastors you call. I know they'll tell you it is God that is doing it. But that is just the simple modus operandi of scammers, charlatans and snake oil sales man. It works for them and people like you end up believing and inviting people and they make more money from offering and tithes and buy private jets. They do charities too to have a greater stronghold on the weak masses so that even if someone's eyes open the followers would descend on him. How is this business model lost on smart people. Just how?

I really do not need to read past that first line. Every other thing that followed is a poor attempt at criticizing what you really don’t understand.

You really do not understand what Christianity is.

Christianity is a way of life. The disciples were first called Christians in Antoich because the people there noticed that their behavior is like Christ. Christian means Christ - like. The Bible recorded that Jesus Christ went about doing good. The greatest commandment he gave to us is - LOVE.

I cannot speak for other Christians as Christianity is meant to be a personal relationship with God through Jesus. I will not be the judge of what I do not know but the Bible says “Search all doctrine and hold on to that which is true”.

Cheers.

Mitocyan:

Yes I agree. I don't have a late brother so no offense at all I understand it is for the purpose of this discussion.

In similar vain you agree that Jesus doesn't exist right cos you have never seen him?

Have u ever seen air?, but it exists right.

For the fact that u never seen it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Don't fight d truth sir

Mitocyan:

Yes I agree. I don't have a late brother so no offense at all I understand it is for the purpose of this discussion.

In similar vain you agree that Jesus doesn't exist right cos you have never seen him?

Your first paragraph has defeated the whole purpose of this thread cause it has brought out the inaccuracy of your arguments.

You know for a certain that Your brother did exist but you want to agree with me because of an argument that he doesn’t exist just because you want to prove that Jesus doesn’t exist.

You see how that sound?

larride:


I really do not need to read past that first line. Every other thing that followed is a poor attempt at criticizing what you really don’t understand.

You really do not understand what Christianity is.

Christianity is a way of life. The disciples were first called Christians in Antoich because the people there noticed that their behavior is like Christ. Christian means Christ - like. The Bible recorded that Jesus Christ went about doing good. The greatest commandment he gave to us is - LOVE.

I cannot speak for other Christians as Christianity is meant to be a personal relationship with God through Jesus. I will not be the judge of what I do not know but the Bible says “Search all doctrine and hold on to that which is true”.

Cheers.

I am sorry you haven't achieved anything other than arguing in circles.

Mitocyan:

I am sorry you haven't achieved anything other than arguing in circles.

Lol. Goodnight.

larride:


Good that we are getting somewhere.

1. You have seen a lot of Pastors that have done miracles like Bishop Oyedapo, Pastor Adeboye, Oyakilome and the likes but you will still question their miracles, therefore this miracles have to happen directly to you before you can believe it. I have seen my Pastor heal a lame man on wheelchair, I have seen a Pastor pray for a woman that has no womb for the fruit of the womb and God sustain a pregnancy in her.

2. What’s to say you will not start to question my own personal experiences once I share them?

There are some called into the ministry of deliverance, some into the ministry of intercession and some into the ministry of teaching. We have function with the capabilities that the Holy Spirit has given us. Have I prayed for the sick and he was healed? Yes. Have I turned water to wine? No. In my 200l, we were preparing for drama night and our rehearsal were vigil every Wednesday and I have Statistics class every Thursday morning by 7am. Have I prayed for the class to be rescheduled to another day and the class was rescheduled to Sat? YES. Have I tread on serpent? No. Have I slept on scorpion unknowingly while in the Uni and I was not bitten? YES. There are lots of personal experience that I have serving this God.

3. If you want to probe the Bible, then you will need to go on a personal journey of self discovery. If you want to test the validity of God, put your trust in him and ask him to show himself to you. You will get your answer.

I have never seen any single miracle by anyone but I have heard claims of people receiving miracles. A few of my friends claimed to have had supernatural encounters but I later discovered they were lies. Infact the most recent one was medically treated of the hallucinations he earlier had purported to be visions. Also, I have witnessed people testifying that their stomach pain, chest pain etc got miraculously healed (things that are not visible) but in the same assembly, people with broken leg, proven cases of paralysis, blindness, burns and other things that could be physically verified not get cured. I honestly wish I could find any iota of sense in what you wrote as all I can see is one who is so entangled in indoctrination.

Although you did not touch any of the 10 issues that was the original aim of the thread, I nevertheless appreciate your engagment with the thread.

NuissancePolice:


I have never seen any single miracle by anyone but I have heard claims of people receiving miracles. A few of my friends claimed to have had supernatural encounters but I later discovered they were lies. Infact the most recent one was recently medically treated of the hallucinations he earlier had purported to be visions. I honestly wish I could find any iota of sense in all you wrotr. All I see is one who is so entangled in indoctrination.

Although you did not touch any of the 10 issues that was the original aim of the thread, I appreciate your engagement with the thread.

Its indoctrination bro. It might be tough for him to engage in a honest intellectual discussion due to indoctrination but hopefully, someone with an open mind will be able to learn from these arguments.

NuissancePolice:


I believe in the big bang, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity.

I believe in things that are real. God is not real.

Why do u think the big bang is real? What is the proof that a balloon exploded, and all life and things just came to be? Thanks

Mitocyan:
The proponents of a particular religion find it very easy to dismiss the religions of others as made up(and they are correct) but it is very difficult for them to see that theirs is made up.

You mind them! Some just make up the crap in the head and believe it is true with no evidence whatsoever to support it.

Mitocyan:
Most Christians in Nigeria today, if they were born somewhere in the middle east, there is a high chance that they'll be muslims. It is as simple as that.

I.e., the 'religion' made up above.

Mitocyan:
It's an irony caused by indoctrination.

You are correct. Difficult.

God owns no man explanation as to why he is God.

NuissancePolice:


I believe in the big bang, evolution, quantum mechanics and relativity.

I believe in things that are real. God is not real.

You even put your beliefs into question as well! Why would you believe in the Big Bang theory, were you there when it started? Even the theory of evolution is counter productive regarding creation! Where did the animals fall from?

Everything falls back into the Bible and it’s antecedents on creation! You can’t have knowledge and still be pointing at one direction, atheists need to ask important questions!

There is a beautiful design in everything especially the living things! It means there is a superior being out there, someone with an intelligent design!

nairaman66:


You even put your beliefs into question as well! Why would you believe in the Big Bang theory, were you there when it started? Even the theory of evolution is counter productive regarding creation! Where did the animals fall from?

Everything falls back into the Bible and it’s antecedents on creation! You can’t have knowledge and still be pointing at one direction, atheists need to ask important questions!

There is a beautiful design in everything especially the living things! It means there is a superior being out there, someone with an intelligent design!

Everything started with the big bang. If it were god that started the big bang, then what explanation do you have do you have as to how God came to be?

The big bang offers a lot of testable predictions. It can be understood with quantum mechanics and relativity for a start. Do you have understanding of quantum mechanics, relativity or evolution?