babyosisi:

I would come off that argument concluding that perhaps this author wrote about a practice in an obscure part of Yorubaland and that would be the reason nobody seems to have heard it and so does not pass for Yoruba culture .

Who said any of us had a problem with making that conclusion? Arent you the ones saying that it doesnt happen ANYWHERE in Igboland then going far as saying ALL Yorubas have road blocking parties,?
Some don't even have parties, just the naming with a few family members is enough for them yet you two want to believe that we all have huge "ceremonies"

If you and Donz would just say "well maybe it happens in so and soi place but I don't believe it happens where I am etc" then you know this dumb argument wouldnt have gone as far as it has.


as for the cancer research thing, there's a difference between making up lies about your tribe and making up lies about science to gain fame.

babyosisi:

I'm sure you're thinking,made it up,ha ha ha.
I happen to be married to a man who is into cancer research and can you believe that there's this Swedish authority in the particular area he works on that had been "forging" results for years and was being referenced all over the world,speaking in big big international conferences of his breakthrough work.

It wasn't until sometime  last year or so that his bubble was burst and he was declared a fraud and severly sanctioned.
If a cancer research scientist dealing with life and death can make things up to get publications,so can Uzochukwu.

No wonder the hardest to do in science is to replicate experiments from a reference publication! May God deliver us.
I saw one paper last week where i totally do not believe their results, think they must have been cooked. Like a professor would always say, no data is bad data it all depends on how well and how convincingly u can present them.

You people arguing about tribal marks, do u have them on ur faces? No matter how hard u try o you cant be named twice, this thread should have been canned ages ago.

davidylan:


No wonder the hardest to do in science is to replicate experiments from a reference publication! May God deliver us.

WORD!!

stop changing the discussion david, now osisi will latch on that and ignore everything else.  

Same way I wouldnt ask you to deny The bible because you werent there when Moses or Jesus were around. It doesnt make any sense and I guess someone can make up stuff just to write a book, but when you have MORE than one source about that certain thing, then what is wrong with accepting it as is?

Is it possible then that this naming ceremony you people describe is so antiquated that no one alive today seems to have witnessed it not even people in their late seventies?
How can a popular culture and one which is not bad at all such as gathering to name a baby be such that we read it from a book?
I asked a friend today from Arochukwu and she never heard of it either?
Where exactly in Igboland are these things done?

Sincerely the internet has spawned an age of laziness. We now hear of armchair authorities postulating theories they gleaned from wikipedia and trying to pass them off as gospel truth.
No naming ceremonies that i know of takes place in igboland. They dont adhere to the 8th day thingy either.

don't worry TOH,I ain't changing the topic but I promise to be calm as usual
I grew up in several cities,PH,Enugu,Umuahia,Aba,Owerri sorrounded by Igbos and in none of those cities did I attend a naming ceremony or heard someone attending one.

Igbo land may be heavily populated but it's not big in land mass.
What states and cities are these things done?

Quote where we said "it's popular" and osisi you are doing the exact same thing that cause this thread to go as long as it has. Even then we already stated that you people do "just namings", um so do we as referenced in the English translation of "isomoloruko" so what is your point? You see some rich people add a party to it and that automatically means we all do?

You're telling us we shouldnt believe that it happens everywhere thre but maybe in a few places, now you're saying AGAIN that it doesnt happen at all. Are the Asaba people no longer Igbo now?

ThiefOfHearts:

Quote where we said "it's popular" and osisi you are doing the exact same thing that cause this thread to go as long as it has. Even then we already stated that you people do "just namings", um so do we as referenced in the English translation of "isomoloruko" so what is your point? You see some rich people add a party to it and that automatically means we all do?

You're telling us we shouldnt believe that it happens everywhere thre but maybe in a few places, now you're saying AGAIN that it doesnt happen at all. Are the Asaba people no longer Igbo now?

But is it not true that yoruba's generally tend to adhere strictly to the naming the child by the 8th day?

The Asaba conundrum was answered by donzman except as usual he was shouted down before anyone could digest his post. Some parts of igbo land have igwes (there is an igwe of onitsha), does that mean that ALL igbo communities have a monarchial system of goverment? It might even interest u to note that the anambra dialect of igbo is slightly different from the owerri dialect.
There are of course small differences between communites, the asaba people may be into naming their children, it does not mean ALL igbos do. I for one never attended one.

Did you even bother reading this, osisi?

Now as for the naming, what I'm saying is just because some people havent heard of certain things in their culture doesnt mean they arent true. Plenty of new things I learn everyday about the Yorubas or even Nigerians in general either from my dad, my boyfriend, research books or articles. I'm NOT going to deny them because either I or my dad has never experienced them.  Same way I wouldnt ask you to deny The bible because you werent there when Moses or Jesus were around. It doesnt make any sense and I guess someone can make up stuff just to write a book, but when you have MORE than one source about that certain thing, then what is wrong with accepting it as is? You make it seem like only one article was written about this.

I asked a simple question,no need to shout.
I happen to be 10 years older than my last brother and remember clearly when he was born.
My parents,just my mom and dad named him,the name on his birth certificate and that is the practice in most of Igboland.
The grandparents name the children,infact call them those names irrespective of their given names.
Are you telling me that that act of a couple giving a name to their child is called a naming ceremony?

davidylan:

Some parts of igbo land have igwes (there is an igwe of onitsha), does that mean that ALL igbo communities have a monarchial system of goverment. It might even interest u to note that the anambra dialect of igbo is slightly different from the owerri dialect.
There are of course small differences between communites, the asaba people may be into naming their children, it does not mean ALL igbos do.

David, ma bi mi ninu

Where did anyone say ALL of them do? THAT is the problem WITH this thread. All we are asking for is for people to acknowledge that some part of Igboland might paretake in such things. That is all. Our problem is with people saying something doesnt exist because there werent there to view it or people they know werent there. WERE you there for His cruxcificion?
Gosh how hard is this for you guys to understand? Abeg, stop derailing this discussion with DonzMan-esque nonsense and go back to telling Muslims that they're all going to rot in hell.

babyosisi:

I asked a simple question,no need to shout.
I happen to be 10 years older than my last brother and remember clearly when he was born.
My parents,just my mom and dad named him,the name on his birth certificate and that is the practice in most of Igboland.
The grandparents name the children,infact call them those names irrespective of their given names.
Are you telling me that that act of a couple giving a name to their child is called a naming ceremony?

Since some Yorubas do the same esp in the villages and you guys consider it to be a "naming ceremony" then YES your brother had one.

ThiefOfHearts:

David, ma bi mi ninu

Where did anyone say ALL of them do? THAT is the problem WITH this thread. All we are asking for is for people to ackknowledge that some part of Igboland might paretake in such things. That is all. Our problem is with people saying something doesnt exist because there werent there to view it or people they know werent there. WERE you there for His cxruxicifion?
Gosh how hard is this for you guys to understand? Abeg, stop derailing this discussion with DonzMan-esque nonsense and go back to telling Muslims that they're all going to rot in hell.

Now wouldn't it be proper then for you to say Asaba people have naming ceremonies?
would that not have been the right thing to say.
Do you know the size of Asaba compared to Igboland?
Asaba is a city in delta state .Asaba is close to Western Nigeria so the culture is bound to be influenced ( even though Donzman whose mom is from Asaba says he's never heard of such)

Since some Yorubas do the same esp in the villages and you guys consider it to be a "naming ceremony"  then YES your brother had one.

I guess Oyinbos also have a naming ceremony.
since any one who has a name had a naming ceremony.
abeg no kill me with laughter,lol

ThiefOfHearts:

David, ma bi mi ninu

Where did anyone say ALL of them do? THAT is the problem WITH this thread. All we are asking for is for people to acknowledge that some part of Igboland might paretake in such things. That is all. Our problem is with people saying something doesnt exist because there werent there to view it or people they know werent there. WERE you there for His cruxcificion?
Gosh how hard is this for you guys to understand? Abeg, stop derailing this discussion with DonzMan-esque nonsense and go back to telling Muslims that they're all going to rot in hell.

This is the REAL problem with this thread, people DEMANDING that their oppinions be regarded as gospel truth. Is it so hard to pass across a view without trying to declare a day of rage?

The question you all have failed to answer is on what basis MUST we acknowledge that some part of igboland partakes in a naming ceremony that those of us who claim to be igbo have NEVER seen nor attended? Surely we all can't have been so blind as not to have witnessed one. Should we merely kowtow to your demands based on a few "links" gleaned from wikipedia?

Many of those making loud claims here cant even point to Asaba on the map of Nigeria!

davidylan:

This is the REAL problem with this thread, people DEMANDING that their oppinions be regarded as gospel truth. Is it so hard to pass across a view without trying to declare a day of rage?

The question you all have failed to answer is on what basis MUST we acknowledge that some part of igboland partakes in a naming ceremony that those of us who claim to be igbo have NEVER seen nor attended? Surely we all can't have been so blind as not to have witnessed one. Should we merely kowtow to your demands based on a few "links" gleaned from wikipedia?

Many of those making loud claims here can't even point to Asaba on the map of Nigeria!

watch out when some in another thread will tell you Asaba people are anioma tribe not Igbo

@Babyosis


I think this thread is getting very old so I found you a present. I figured you from Umahia, I maybe wrong though but I hope you enjoy it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56zjUgQKEOE

Who said any of us had a problem with making that conclusion? Arent you the ones saying that it doesnt happen ANYWHERE in Igboland then going far as saying ALL Yorubas have road blocking parties,?
Some don't even have parties, just the naming with a few family members is enough for them yet you two want to believe that we all have huge "ceremonies"

Nobody said that, that will be a stupid thing to say. When we talk about Igbos, we're talking about a REPRESENTATIVE society. Anyone who knows anything knows Asaba is not representative of the Igbos as a whole, this is the truth. New Orleans is in America but it is not representative of the general American culture, is it?. . .It seems like people do not like to see the truth!

Why don't we question credibility of these authors?. . .Someone who exclaimed that naming ceremonies are the most important events in the life of a new child in Igboland, really? How important is it if none of us have witnessed it?. . .Nonsense!

This is assuming that Asaba people actually have naming ceremonies, my grandma is from there and she told me straight up NO. You give birth, people come to say hello, some of them suggest names, there's no ceremony i.e. an official event where you name the kid.

Infact I'm tired of this thread, keep thinking Igbos have naming ceremonies, maybe you'll attend one when you reincarnate because you're not going to witness on in this lifetime, that I'm sure of!

Now as for the naming, what I'm saying is[b] just because some people haven't heard of certain things in their culture doesn't mean they arent true[/b]. Plenty of new things I learn everyday about the Yorubas or even Nigerians in general either from my dad, my boyfriend, research books or articles. I'm NOT going to deny them because either I or my dad has never experienced them.  Same way I wouldnt ask you to deny The bible because you werent there when Moses or Jesus were around. It doesnt make any sense and I guess someone can make up stuff just to write a book, but when you have MORE than one source about that certain thing, then what is wrong with accepting it as is? You make it seem like only one article was written about this.

If no one else has heard of it save an author who may have been referenced by another author then it may not be true.(remember my story of the phony scientist?)
You don't need reagents, pipettes and burrettes to prove a naming ceremony.
If none is yet to see one,there may not be one,if there was,it certainly does not qualify as an Igbo culture just like chitlings does not qualify as an American delicacy.

As for the Bible you've talked about,besides the inner witness of the Holy Spirit which is in itself all I really need, there is added documented evidence today by way of the deadsea scrolls that prove the historical accounts recorded in the Bible.
That is enough for me.

Thanks for the clip freewilly,I enjoyed the hip movements,miss my grandma of blessed memories.

babyosisi:

As for the Bible you've talked about,besides the inner witness of the Holy Spirit which is in itself all I really need, there is added documented evidence today by way of the deadsea scrolls that prove the historical accounts recorded in the Bible.
That is enough for me.

Yet several articles by Igbo people on certain things isnt enough for you. As for my comment about your brother's "naimg", if you didnt get what I was trying to say then there really isnt any point in discussing this with you anymore Btw, "oyinbo grandparents" dont add to the names.

whether Asaba isnt a whole or not(I dont believe I or anyone else said that. you people have a habit of putting words in our mouths), like I've mentioned MANY times is that all you people could have said is "in some parts they probably do celebrate such things but not where Im from or what I know of". Simple.

Just for you to say "NO WHERE IN IGBO LAND do they do such things" is the problem that some of us have. I can only hope to God that you people understand now else I'm gonna have to fast for your brains.

Donzman:

Nobody said that, that will be a stupid thing to say.

Then you must be REALLY "stupid" as that is ALL you've been saying on this thread.


David, the Muslim threads are waiting for you.

from tribal marks, to circumcision to naming ceremonies, to christenings,  to cancer reasearch and scientists.
the plot thickens!

off to pop some corn. what a thread!  

ThiefOfHearts:


whether Asaba isnt a whole or not(I don't believe I or anyone else said that. you people have a habit of putting words in our mouths), like I've mentioned MANY times is that all you people could have said is "in some parts they probably do celebrate such things but not where I'm from or what I know of". Simple.

Perfectly said. In any case, the ceremony's not just relegated to Asaba--that just happened to be the focus of this thesis, so I'm not clear on why the fact that Asaba has an obi or cultural ties to western Nigeria would be offered as an explanation for naming ceremonies there. Mbaise is not in Delta state and can hardly be said to be a peripheral Igbo area, yet there are naming ceremonies recorded there (despite the fact that people who live there may not know about them!).

It's clear that many Igbos don't observe a naming ceremony. No one is arguing that. Pages and pages ago, I said that it was a dying tradition even n places where it was practiced and that not many people would know about it, just as with ichie scarification marks--I notice we're not disputing those any more, thank God. Those were once widely-practiced for Ozo titleholders too, but you'd be hard-pressed to find a man with those marks these days. Just because you have not heard of something or seen it with your own eyes does not mean it does not and did not ever exist. Many "Okun" Yorubas in Kwara and Kogi areas traditionally did not have obas or centralized governments. Ife people traditionally did not make facial marks. We cannot then say that Yorubas do not have obas or make facial marks.

I sincerely don't see why this is even an argument. If you don't believe that there's such a thing as a naming ceremony in Igbo-speaking areas, fine. If you do, great. It was an answer to a question posed. Why it would become a cause of insults etc. is sincerely beyond me.

Still happy to talk about "Yoruba marks and their significance."

first of all, the level of racism, tribalism, and bigotry demonstrated by many Nigerians is appalling. I was just wondering ,the other day, if any other African country outside of Rwanda has this kind of deep rooted ethnic hatreds.Na wa o.  And all this kind of mentality after a civil war. Too bad people can't learn from the past. I personally know an igbo lady who mentioned some atrocities committed against her family by Nigerian soldiers, during the war.Yet she went on to enter into a wonderful marriage with a Yoruba man that lasted for decades. Na wa o. I have a headache from reading some of these tribalistic and racist posts on Nairaland.

I think the Nigerian government should begin to offer financial incentives to people who marry outside their tribe. This will encourage more tribal integration and maybe begin to point the way to a common ground for all Nigerians[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][color=#990000][/color]. I personally don't have a problem with anyone who doesnt want to be Nigerian-after all, a substantial part of Nigeria used to be in Cameroon ages ago.

Secondly, I have to mention the fact that I don't understand the antagonism felt by some people over the practice of SOME Yoruba people in throwing lavish parties in YORUBALAND. Its not as if they went to Igboland or Hausaland to throw their party. if they are blocking roads in lagos and people have a problem with that, surely there are civil ways to voice your complaint about it. And if the parties are disturbing you too much, then move.
I personally do not like the idea of owambe parties, but then neither do I like the idea of extravagant funerals, expensive weddings, and the like, especially if the parties involved cannot really afford the expense. But thats just my personal view, and if anyone wants to throw an owambe party, its not my business, since I'm not the one paying for it.

Interesting,
but why is it so important to prove that Igbos do the naming ceremony thingy?
Yoruba's do it, but is it bad?
Anyhow, about the tribal marks, it is an old custom which is dieng out and will soon die a natural death. Only hard core traditionalists adhere to it and they probably will be totally wipedout in the next hudred years.
The only problem i have with it though, is that its performed on kids too young to decide what they want, apart from that there's nothing wrong with it. At a point in time in yoruba culture, it was considered beautiful.

Like I said before, nah competition for them. Everything is a competition in their eyes. Even facial markings (Ours is not as thick as yours tee hee!). I no get their time jare

Happy 4th! 

ThiefOfHearts:

Like I said before, nah competition for them. Everything is a competition in their eyes. Even facial markings (Ours is not as thick as yours tee hee!). I no get their time jare

Happy 4th!

Happy 4th of July, ThiefofHearts! Gee. . . . .I see a lot happened in my absence in the past few days! By the way, do you have Ekiti blood in you by any chance?

Significance of tribal marks? E get significance at all? I no think so especially for today's world.

ThiefOfHearts:

Like I said before, nah competition for them. Everything is a competition in their eyes. Even facial markings (Ours is not as thick as yours tee hee!). I no get their time jare

Happy 4th! 

Good you took time in between BBQ to respond.
calm down dear,tribal marks (though unsightly) are not the end of the world

simmy:

Interesting,
but why is it so important to prove that Igbos do the naming ceremony thingy?
Yoruba's do it, but is it bad?
Anyhow, about the tribal marks, it is an old custom which is dieng out and will soon die a natural death. Only hard core traditionalists adhere to it and they probably will be totally wipedout in the next hudred years.
The only problem i have with it though, is that its performed on kids too young to decide what they want, apart from that there's nothing wrong with it. At a point in time in yoruba culture, it was considered beautiful.

was it really?
I thought they said it was to prevent mistaking an Ijebu man from an oyo man?
How can deep cat whiskers on a human be beautiful?
Beauty is really in the eyes of the beholder.

who are the 6 people that voted to give their kids tribal marks?
I hope it's all a joke.

No one has a BBQ at 9 am, osisi

laudate:

By the way, do you have Ekiti blood in you by any chance?

Of course. How did you figure? 

ThiefOfHearts:

Of course. How did you figure? 

Elementary, my dear Watson!!    They are usually so quick on the draw!!

By the way, tell TerraCotta to collect his winnings in cash!!