asha 80:



katsumoto try not to be funny.

Asha 80

Try to be objective

Ifeajuna who killed Largema was at the same party. Surely, why would anyone think that Largema did not give the message to Ironsi at the party? Largema was not killed when he arrived in Lagos; Largema attended a party before he was killed. Or was the party not in Lagos?

Why are some of you so selective with facts before you? I am out for now.

Katsumoto:

Asha 80

Try to be objective

Ifeajuna who killed Largema was at the same party. Surely, why would anyone think that Largema did not give the message to Ironsi at the party? Largema was not killed when he arrived in Lagos; Largema attended a party before he was killed. Or was the party not in Lagos?

Why are some of you so selective with facts before you? I am out for now.

Does it occur to you that it will be a great blunder on Largema's part to deliver a secret message at a party?

Katsumoto:

Asha 80

Try to be objective

Ifeajuna who killed Largema was at the same party. Surely, why would anyone think that Largema did not give the message to Ironsi at the party? Largema was not killed when he arrived in Lagos; Largema attended a party before he was killed. Or was the party not in Lagos?

Why are some of you so selective with facts before you? I am out for now.

what you said above is not a fact but a scenario you have painted that is likely but not an outright fact.

the fact is that it written there that largema was killed before he could give the message to ironsi.unless you can bring out another fact or a written account that he actually gave the message to ironsi before he was killed then i am not inclined to believe whatever scenario you try to paint.after all you are the one that is always saying anything relating to this coup that anyone wants to prove as fact MUST be backed by evidence and not scenario painting.

no need leaving.bring out a fact or written evidence that he actually gave the message to ironsi.

Obiagu1:

Does it occur to you that it will be a great blunder on Largema's part to deliver a secret message at a party?

Perhaps but how can anyone be certain the he did not pass the message on at the party? The point I am making is that if Largema was killed to prevent him passing a message to Largema why was Ironsi not killed if Ifeajuna (and some other plotters), Ironsi, and Largema were all at the same party? That way, you are sure to neutralise the objective of the message instead of assuming that Largema was waiting for a better time to pass the message.

Katsumoto:

Perhaps but how can anyone be certain the he did not pass the message on at the party? The point I am making is that if Largema was killed to prevent him passing a message to Largema why was Ironsi not killed if Ifeajuna (and some other plotters), Ironsi, and Largema were all at the same party? That way, you are sure to neutralise the objective of the message instead of assuming that Largema was waiting for a better time to pass the message.

No one can actually be certain what transpired, whether he passed the message to Ironsi or not, or whether the plotters got wind of the reason Largema came to Lagos at that same party.

It was many blunders committed by Ifeajuna that actually infuriated Nzeogwu. From what I've heard, Ironsi was penciled down to be killed but that plot failed.

Posted by: Chyz*

Save the BS, get out of that your little hate filled world you tribalistic bigot.

lol, I don't think a lot of people on nairaland know that katsumoto is arguably the most tribalistic Yoruba on this forum.

I figured him out in less than a day -he is a whited sepulcher: smooth, sounding erudite and polished, but inside is full of "hypocrisy and iniquity" (to borrow from Jesus' description of scribes and pharisees in the bible); and I would add PURE HATE.

Any smart person can figure him out in less than a day. He is incapable of accepting the truth once it goes against his main aim which is to continue distortion of history to justify evil perpetrated by evil men against NIGERIAN INTEREST and thousands of innocent women and children.

Back to topic:

I can summarize the national feelings about the January 1966 coup from the account given by the journalist gentleman in the video ( a sharp and well spoken Yoruba man BTW); the coup was a patriotic coup targeting thieves in government and was carried out to stop feudalism on its tracks.
Till the end of the video, that was the ONLY facts gleaned from the unbiased comment by a Nigerian journalist. The guy sounded like an Owoye Lakemfa or Obi Nwakama or Okey Ndibe of today. We Nigerians have always known our problems even from Jan 1966. We only fail at the edge of breakthroughs, because of characters like Katsumoto.  

asha 80:

what you said above is not a fact but a scenario you have painted that is likely but not an outright fact.

the fact is that it written there that largema was killed before he could give the message to ironsi.[/b]unless you can bring out another fact or a written account that he actually gave the message to ironsi before he was killed then i am not inclined to believe whatever scenario you try to paint.after all you are the one that is always saying anything relating to this coup that anyone wants to prove as fact MUST be backed by [b]evidence and not scenario painting.

no need leaving.bring out a fact or written evidence that he actually gave the message to ironsi.

What MAXSIOLLUN actually stated was that Largema was killed when he arrived in Lagos to prevent him passing on the message. The facts are that he wasn't killed when he arrived in Lagos. Fact - He attended a party with the recipient of his message as well as his killers. Those are the facts.

It is possible that he did not pass on the message but why kill only the messenger and the sender; why not kill the recipient as well?

Katsumoto:

Perhaps but how can anyone be certain the he did not pass the message on at the party? The point I am making is that if Largema was killed to prevent him passing a message to Largema why was Ironsi not killed if Ifeajuna (and some other plotters), Ironsi, and Largema were all at the same party? That way, you are sure to neutralise the objective of the message instead of assuming that Largema was waiting for a better time to pass the message.

why would they kill ironsi if ironsi is NOT aware of the message that is being sent to him?or are you trying to say that ironsi already knows that a message was to be delivered to him?what logic is that?

Katsumoto:


What MAXSIOLLUN actually stated was that Largema was killed when he arrived in Lagos to prevent him passing on the message. The facts are that he wasn't killed when he arrived in Lagos. Fact - He attended a party with the recipient of his message as well as his killers. Those are the facts.

It is possible that he did not pass on the message but why kill only the messenger and the sender; why not kill the recipient as well?

what PROOF do you have that ironsi actually got the message?is their a need to kill the supposed recipient if the recipent did not get the message/

since you are now dealing with scenario what if ifeajuna was aware that the message has NOT YET being deliverd to ironsi?


why add the extra burden of killing ironsi for something he is NOT yet aware about?

Katsumoto:

What MAXSIOLLUN actually stated was that Largema was killed when he arrived in Lagos to prevent him passing on the message. The facts are that he wasn't killed when he arrived in Lagos. Fact - He attended a party with the recipient of his message as well as his killers. Those are the facts.

It is possible that he did not pass on the message but why kill only the messenger and the sender; why not kill the recipient as well?

Note: He did not say Largema was killed when he just arrived in Lagos. I can equally replace "arrived" with "came". Maxsiollum's statement doesn't specify the sequence, whether he was killed on arrival or while still in Lagos for the purpose that brought him there.

Onlytruth:

I[b] can summarize the national feelings about the January 1966 coup from the account given by the journalist gentleman in the video ( a sharp and well spoken Yoruba man BTW); the coup was a patriotic coup targeting thieves in government and was carried out to stop feudalism on its tracks.
Till the end of the video, that was the ONLY facts gleaned from the unbiased comment from a Nigerian journalist.[/b] The guy sounded like a Owoye Lakemfa or Obi Nwakama or Okey Ndibe of today. We Nigerians have always known our problems even from Jan 1966. We only fail at the edge of breakthroughs, because of characters like Katsumoto.   

That's what I deduced from the video too. The coup was a popular one and no one seemed to mind until after the July counter coup when the Northerners painted the previous coup as an Igbo coup to justify their actions.

Guys, we are getting waaaaaaay off topic!  
That video of the press conference with Ironsi tells much. The deliberate and circumspect manner in which he answered questions should tell you that this was a man outside his comfort zone and was not apt for the job thrust upon him. To answer some of the questions:

1) Ironsi trusted in his northern soldiers bc he believed the army was a "brotherhood". He saw the world in simple terms and thought the soldiers were above whatever mess the politicians could create.  He did not realise the brotherly bond in the army was shattered on the night of Jan 15, when soldiers murdered their brother officers in cold blood. Brig Maimalari's murder was a case in point.

2) Very easy to critique now bc of hindsight (which was not available to Ironsi, Murtala, Danjuma, Fajuyi etc). I'm sure if given a second chance, all of them would have acted differently - if they knew the disastrous consequences their actions would bring.

i actually liked how that nigerian journalist in that video spoke.i wonder where he is today

asha 80:

i actually liked how that nigerian journalist in that video spoke.i wonder where he is today

The one that was smoking a cigar, He just spoke his mind. He was actually in support of the coup.

afam4eva:

The one that was smoking a cigar, He just spoke his mind. He was actually in support of the coup.

yea that one .

Posted by: maxsiollun

Guys, we are getting waaaaaaay off topic!  
That video of the press conference with Ironsi tells much. The deliberate and circumspect manner in which he answered questions should tell you that this was a man outside his comfort zone and was not apt for the job thrust upon him. To answer some of the questions:

1) Ironsi trusted in his northern soldiers bc he believed the army was a "brotherhood". He saw the world in simple terms and thought the soldiers were above whatever mess the politicians could create.  He did not realise the brotherly bond in the army was shattered on the night of Jan 15, when soldiers murdered their brother officers in cold blood. Brig Maimalari's murder was a case in point.

2) Very easy to critique now bc of hindsight (which was not available to Ironsi, Murtala, Danjuma, Fajuyi etc). I'm sure if given a second chance, all of them would have acted differently - if they knew the disastrous consequences their actions would bring.

I still believe that the main lesson from that video -as a Nigerian citizen- is the one given by the journalist, which is that the coup was patriotic, no matter how much revisionists try to tell us otherwise. If there was no July '66 counter-coup (assuming that folks really didn't think tribalistically like Ironsi who was assuming a "brotherhood" in the NIGERIAN military), we would never have revisionists telling us otherwise.

Of course for leaders of Nigeria, especially folks like current president Goodluck Jonathan, they would do well to learn that tribalism is the most relevant factor in the Nigerian politics, if that can be qualified as "good".

Posted by: Obiagu1

That's what I deduced from the video too. The coup was a popular one and no one seemed to mind until after the July counter coup when the Northerners painted the previous coup as an Igbo coup to justify their actions.

Of course it is self evident. If there was no July '66 coup, believe me Nigeria would never have known about a purported Igbo coup. The mutineers of July '66 had to quickly come up with a justification.
Just like the northerners are now coming around to support Jonathan as a leader of an emerging new Nigeria where tribe or minority status no longer decide ones electability in Nigeria; the north would have come around to support the change initiated by the January '66 coupists.

I don't even want to address Ironsi's naivety because that much is obvious to everyone.

Jonathan's steps so far show that he is not that naive.

Finally, people are calling Katsumoto what he really is, a big TRIBALIST of the highest order. Even with the facts presented to him, he still wants to say that it was an "Igbo Coup." Now that is truly disgusting.

No one believed me when I said that last year. I know his type. The smoth talking Yoruba elite. They are the most dangerous type in Nigeria. Even the North is wary of that type of person. Awolowo clearly was a member of this group.

There was WIDESPREAD support for the coup!

Was Akintola missed? No

Was the Sardauna missed? No

Was even Balewa missed? No

Was Okotie-Eboh missed? Hell no!

People went on with their lives, happy and jubilant.

Corruption & nepotism was suppose to be discarded!

Ironsi has been vindicated.

In my heart of heart, I knew Ironsi was just a sacrificial lamb. He was put into that position, by fate. I definitely feel sorry for the man. He was simply a soldier who believe that his comrades were above the political mess. Very sad. Ironsi's story should be told to future generations.

God bless you Max Siollun

EzeUche_:

Ironsi has been vindicated.

In my heart of heart, I knew Ironsi was just a sacrificial lamb. He was put into that position, by fate. I definitely feel sorry for the man. He was simply a soldier who believe that his comrades were above the political mess. Very sad. [s]Ironsi's story should be told to future generations. [/s]

for once i agree with u on this Ironsi story was sad indeed

but instead of telling the future generation about Ironsi, lets tell them the whole truth and see how they react to us igbo

EzeUche_:

Ironsi has been vindicated.

In my heart of heart, I knew Ironsi was just a sacrificial lamb. He was put into that position, by fate. I definitely feel sorry for the man. He was simply a soldier who believe that his comrades were above the political mess. Very sad. Ironsi's story should be told to future generations.

God bless you Max Siollun

I disagree with you completely.
Ironsi was one of the reasons we're in a mess today. To be fair to him, fate put him in that position, but what was his business changing from federal to unitary government? He came to power, appointed governors for various regions, was that not enough?

Why not try and stabilize the country and conduct another election?

His stupidity and naivety killed him despite the fact Ojukwu warned him of his actions.

Obiagu1:

I disagree with you completely.
Ironsi was one of the reasons we're in a mess today. To be fair to him, fate put him in that position, but what was his business changing from federal to unitary government? He came to power, appointed governors for various regions, was that not enough?

Why not try and stabilize the country and conduct another election?

His stupidity and naivety killed him despite the[b] fact Ojukwu warned him of his actions.[/b]

was it ojukwu that warned him or alexander madiebo?

EzeUche_:

There was WIDESPREAD support for the coup!

Was Akintola missed? No

Was the Sardauna missed? No

Was even Balewa missed? No

Was Okotie-Eboh missed? Hell no!

People went on with their lives, happy and jubilant.

Corruption & nepotism was suppose to be discarded!

They were all missed by their people.

The main factor that motivated jul 66 coup was the killing of Sardauna. Till now the North have not come to term with it.

asha 80:

was it ojukwu that warned him or alexander madiebo?

It might not be only one person that warned him.

I will continue to see Ironsi as a man who was foisted onto a position he did not want.

He was a career soldier, which is very different from running a nation. The man knew how to follow orders and was very patriotic.

If I was him, I would have declined the position though. But at that time, there was lot of confusion.

OAM4J:

They were all missed by their people.

The main factor that motivated jul 66 coup was the killing of Sardauna. Till now the North have not come to term with it.

If they were missed so much, there should have been non-stop riots. But there weren't any riots. Just joyous crowds who supported the coup.

People like Okotie-Eboh were not missed.

The only reason why their were riots in the North is, because those people were used by their leaders to have a violent reaction.

A little education is a dangerous thing. We have seen one so called sufferhead journalist 'blowing benson' and talking about popular support, corruption, nepotism and avarice. If only this journalist was alive to see how his military liberators kleptomaniacs took corruption, nepotism and avarice to unparalleled heights. I wonder what punishment he would have deemed appropriate.

What are we arguing about here? These soldiers created the mess we have today.  Those innocents were slaughterred for nothing, Patriots were replaced by 'animals in human skin' whose only competence was their incompetence, a total disgrace to the noble virtues of the military.

The video about Ironsi plays a thousand words. The phrase that sprung to mind was 'rabbit & headlights'. The man looked like he was having a nervous breakdown. Soldiers should remain in the barracks.

Most interesting Agenda yet to be seen in Nigeria politics. follow link

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002012453893#!/photo.php?fbid=109939005747159&set=a.109938795747180.16369.109929175748142

SapeleGuy:

A little education is a dangerous thing. We have seen one so called sufferhead journalist 'blowing benson' and talking about popular support, corruption, nepotism and avarice. If only this journalist was alive to see how his military liberators kleptomaniacs took corruption, nepotism and avarice to unparalleled heights. I wonder what punishment he would have deemed appropriate.

What are we arguing about here? These soldiers created the mess we have today.  Those innocents were slaughterred for nothing, Patriots were replaced by 'animals in human skin' whose only competence was their incompetence, a total disgrace to the noble virtues of the military.

The video about Ironsi plays a thousand words. The phrase that sprung to mind was 'rabbit & headlights'. The man looked like he was having a nervous breakdown. Soldiers should remain in the barracks.

Thank you!

I had same thought too while listing to the journalist on the video. What good have those soldiers done? Took corruption to a greater height and in addition gave us a civil war. Fact is that coup was a BIG MISTAKE.

I'll like to add that Ironsi's action was one of the, if not the greatest, harm committed against Nigerians. If he was alive today, I'd campaign for him to be jailed for life! This is how much I despise his action.

Just with one stroke of the pen, he completely nullified the foundation of Nigeria which we have been nurtured in without any consultation. Every region in their base with their government and with their policies to guide them. How he came up with the idea of that unitary government is beyond reason.

OAM4J:

Thank you!

I had same thought too while listing to the journalist on the video. What good have those soldiers done? Took corruption to a greater height and in addition gave us a civil war. Fact is that coup was a BIG MISTAKE.

Those soldiers were not allowed to have their dream come to fruition, because of tribalistic soldiers from the North who many thought they were there brothers. But they only worked on behalf of their region.

The BIGGEST MISTAKE Ironsi did was allowing Northern soldiers to have positions. He should have castigated them to barracks that were away from his power.