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Does God Really Know The Future? - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by DappaD: 10:55am On Aug 17
Blabbermouth:

This is one of those many questions that believers try not to seek an answer to.
This is one of those many questions that will never be raised by anybody in any bible study. Do you know why you can't? Many will begin to see you as a Devil and a faith shaker.
I have the purest intent with the question i asked.

Lol. Trust me when I say more challenging questions have come my way.
It's like you've not understood Jehovah's Witnesses fully. Each time a JW is out in the field ministry, he comes in contact with SEVERAL people who will challenge/shake his faith. So it's up to him to remain firm in the truth he has learned! – Ephesians 6:14-15

So the question you're asking isn't out of the ordinary because an article explaining this was even considered in one of our meetings—I think some years back or so
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 10:58am On Aug 17
Maximus69:


Exactly! smiley
Discussion so far: You claimed God does not know If I will repent or not.
Here is my last question;
The scripture says "their names have been written in the book of life before the foundation of the world"... Whose names are those?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 11:00am On Aug 17
DappaD:

So the question you're asking isn't out of the ordinary because an article explaining this was even considered in one of our meetings—I think some years back or so
You guys did well. However we both know the truth is yet complete as there are still many loopholes. All in all though, you guys tried.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by jesusjnr2020(m): 11:10am On Aug 17
Blabbermouth:
Since time immemorial, man had always and will always continue to attribute what he cannot do and isn't capable of as part of God's sovereign ability.
Even if there are many many denominations in Christianity, I believe every of them agree that God is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. We don't have issues with the last 2 Omni - (for now) , so we will just concentrate on the first one. While this omniscient attribute is sweet to the ears, I want to know if God himself actually claimed/said that he "knows the future".
The floor is open, I don't want substance less opinions and replies invented from what you feel is true or right, instead;
GIVE YOUR ANSWER
DROP SCRIPTURES THAT SUPPORT YOUR ANSWER
EXPLAIN HOW THE SCRIPTURE PROVES THAT GOD KNOWS THE FUTURE.
Cc: Kobojunkie, Maximus69, Jesusjnr2020, MuttleyLaff, Shadeyinka, solite3, budaatum, sonmvayina, Hiswordxray

I find it very strange that I had to travel through many comments here, before I could get to one which stated the most decisive factor with respect to your question @haddeylium which is freewill.

Freewill is what everything hinges on. The outcome of man's freewill is what determines and predestinates the future. And the freewill was deliberately given to man by God because He didn't want a fixed outcome but a multiple one and He wanted the outcome to be determined by man.

So God knew it could pan out either way, and He's prepared for whatever comes out of man's freewill.

Therefore the answer to your question is that God is omniscient and He knows the future and everything else as far as the world was concerned, but He didn't fix it, man did! By the choices he made.

It's been quite a while bro. I do hope you're doing great.

Thanks and God bless.

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Nobody: 11:12am On Aug 17
Blabbermouth:

Discussion so far: You claimed God does not know If I will repent or not.
Here is my last question;
The scripture says "their names have been written in the book of life before the foundation of the world"... Whose names are those?

No literal name was written otherwise that would have meant partiality! smiley

It simply means the good plans of God to make the earth a Paradise stands and remain unshakable, names of all obedient people is in essence WRITTEN already because that's the criteria for getting there! smiley
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 11:29am On Aug 17
jesusjnr2020:
I find it very strange that I had to travel through many comments here, before I could get to one which stated the most decisive factor with respect to your question @haddeylium which is freewill.

Freewill is what everything hinges on. The outcome of man's freewill is what determines and predestinates the future. And the freewill was deliberately given to man by God because He didn't want a fixed outcome but a multiple one and He wanted the outcome to be determined by man.

So God knew it could pan out either way, and He's prepared for whatever comes out of man's freewill.

Therefore the answer to your question is that God is omniscient and He knows the future and everything else as far as the world was concerned, but He didn't fix it, man did! By the choices he made.

It's been quite a while bro. I do hope you're doing great.

Thanks and God bless.
Before the foundation of the earth, the Lamb was slain to fix things. Without God, man is doomed and facing eternal ostracisation with no prospect of reconciliation back to God
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by haddeylium(m): 12:02pm On Aug 17
MuttleyLaff:
God foreknows every human acts and every human acts is predestined because God is privy and/or aware of all human acts before the action actually or physically happens

Haddeylium;----

1.Following your logics, if God has already predestined humans and there's nothing we could do to change it.
So, what's the point of praying?
Why read for exams?; why not have it in my mind that 'what will be will be'?

Why take your children to the doctor when they are sick?...why not keep the same energy that if they are not destined to die now, they'll not..
Why take measures to ensure safety?(using seatbelt and all)
Didn't God commanded the Israelites to be conscious of their safety?...why didn't God's word leave it in the hands of fate?

Freewill and foreknowledge are not handicaps, they dont in any shame or form put God at an disadvantage. The word of God in Isaiah 55:11 emphatically says: "That's how it is with my words. They don't return to me without doing everything I send them to do."

[/font] Haddeylium--2.What you don't know is that God’s control of his powers does not limit him or makes him imperfect. Rather it magnifies his greatness and his respect for the freewill he gave us
And yet again, God's foreknowing the even of intelligent beings he created is not without a prior basis or acts

What's your belief in freewill?
Cos' I know you cannot believe the teaching of predestination and freewill

It was me who advanced Isaiah 46:10, in where God, emphatically states: "Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish"

[font=Lucida Sans Unicode]

3.Haddeylium-I read someone answers to this ...
I don't know how to quote it here
Isaiah 46:10-yes,God foretell and foreordains certain matters in connection with its accomplishment and purpose, and has the power to assure that these will be fulfilled.)

*But, does God ability to foreknow and foredain means that he does this regarding all the actions of his creatures?*

God word says
Rev 22:17-And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come; let anyone who [b][/b]wishes take life’s water free.
(Wishes, Do you see the choice is not foredained,
It's left to individual with his own will.)

Zeph 2:3-
Would God encourage all to do what is right in hope for reward, knowing that some will not succeed because they re destined not to?
Loll


Now this is the thing, no where in scripture will you find God say He does not know. When God exercises anthropomorphism, as in meaning the times, He appears(ed) to us or manifests Himself to us in human form or even attributes to Himself human characteristics, it doesnt mean God is deficient, insufficient and/or lacking in any particular department/faculty


4.Haddeylium--Maybe you skipped some scriptures
God said he's a friend to Abraham, remember?
So when he went to the point of sacrificing his only son for him.
God said
*For now I do know that you are God-fearing* in that you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me.”​—Ge 18:19; 22:11, 12; compare Ne 9:7, 8;
Jehovah's said, he knows now!
Would you say he already know prior that time in contrasts to the scripture?

haddeylium, here are a few easy, simple, direct and straightforward questions I would really like you respond to and they are:
1/ Did God not foreknow that A&E will eat of the TKGE well in advance before it happened?
2/ Why were names written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain, if not because of foreknowledge?


Haddeylium--
5.God wants Adam and Eve to be fruitful and subdue it and commanded them not to eat from knowledge of Good and bad(Gen 1:28; 2:26,17)

Would you encourage your children to embark on a journey knowing it was doomed to failure?
You won't right?... would you warn them of the harm to avoid it in exercising their freewill right?
If you can't , why then attribute such to God?
Even Jesus said in Matthew 77:11
If you, although being wicked , know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”

The implications of God's foredaining of humans sins means that he's responsible for all the wickedness and immorality in this world but God's word teaches otherwise
It's unscriptural

I don't quite understand your second question : and can you quote the Bible verse here

I'd review sharpish, my theology, if I were you, to find out and understand, what objective(s) is God aiming to achieve from creating human beings, the likes of Blabbermouth, haddeylium, DappaD, Janosky, Maximus69, kkins25, Bodydialect57, FOLYKAZE et al and what situational problem is He, forever, once and for all, aiming to solve, so that, maybe after then, the penny will drop and everything will fall in place with a better and clearer perspective of this whole matter

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 12:32pm On Aug 17
I am awaiting your response to the two questions please
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by haddeylium(m): 12:34pm On Aug 17
Blabbermouth:

This is another twist entirely. You are painting God as a sage with a very rare telepathic and forecasting ability to know what will happen given a few conditions or fact. ... Don't you think this road will be rough to tread?
Also, please do check the difference between foretelling and forthtelling. Some of your examples are from forthtelling and not foretelling.

Please, go through it again and slowly this time sir.
And how do you define forthtell and foretell?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by haddeylium(m): 12:47pm On Aug 17
MuttleyLaff:


I am awaiting your response to the the two questions please

I would have loved to quote it separately...I don't know how

About God knowing or not
Check number 4[color=#990000][/color]

Adam and eve- check number 5

And give answers to the first
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 3:59pm On Aug 17
MuttleyLaff:
Now this is the thing, no where in scripture will you find God say He does not know. When God exercises anthropomorphism, as in meaning the times, He appears(ed) to us or manifests Himself to us in human form or even attributes to Himself human characteristics, it doesnt mean God is deficient, insufficient and/or lacking in any particular department/faculty

haddeylium, here are a few easy, simple, direct and straightforward questions I would really like you respond to and they are:
1/ Did God not foreknow that A&E will eat of the TKGE well in advance before it happened?

haddeylium:
4.Haddeylium--Maybe you skipped some scripturesMaybe you skipped some scriptures
God said he's a friend to Abraham, remember?
So when he went to the point of sacrificing his only son for him.
God said
*For now I do know that you are God-fearing* in that you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me.”​—Ge 18:19; 22:11, 12; compare Ne 9:7, 8;
Jehovah's said, he knows now!
Would you say he already know prior that time in contrasts to the scripture?

Haddeylium--
5.God wants Adam and Eve to be fruitful and subdue it and commanded them not to eat from knowledge of Good and bad(Gen 1:28; 2:26,17)

Would you encourage your children to embark on a journey knowing it was doomed to failure?
You won't right?... would you warn them of the harm to avoid it in exercising their freewill right?
If you can't , why then attribute such to God?

Even Jesus said in Matthew 77:11
If you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”

The implications of God's foredaining of humans sins means that he's responsible for all the wickedness and immorality in this world but God's word teaches otherwise
It's unscriptural
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.
"
- 2 Corinthians 5:10

"For according to a man’s deeds He repays him; according to a man’s ways He brings consequences.
(i.e. He repays people according to their deeds. He treats people as they deserve)
"
- Job 34:11

haddeylium, I did not skip any scripture because I am aware when and where anthropomorphism is in put in to play in a narrative.

I am 1000% sure you wouldn't say that God, literally and/or physically has Arms to save human beings with. Now, if really that there are any implications of God's foredaining of humans sins, to mean that He's responsible for all the wickedness and immorality in this world, then it would be unscriptural, unfair and unjust for any case to come up, where human beings will give account of every thought, deed, action and/or inaction involving them, do you agree, hmm?

Do you think that 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Job 34:11 above are just decorative bible verses ni, hmm?

Fyi haddeylium, Adam and Eve were babies and they certainly weren't children. If God did not know they are capable of doing the right thing, do the right thing at the right time and do the right at the right thing while remaining on His right side, then He wouldn't have left the TKGE centrally and unavoidably placed in the garden of Eden, so all these your proof-texting with "Gen 1:28; 2:26,17" sic and "Matthew 77:11" sic

There is nothing like 17 in your "Gen 1:28; 2:26,17" sic, nor is there a 77 for your "Matthew 77:11" sic, sef

Another fyi haddeylium Adam and Eve were made fully grown and/or developed to be responsible for their actions. They are completely responsible for what they did or not do

Their minds were endowed with accelerated knowledge

Unlike you haddeylium, who I suspect wouldn't accept and agree that, Adam and Eve were not children, Adam, actually, was a grown and strapping specimen of red blooded man. As a matter of fact, He and Eve were not made children nor childish. This means that, Adam and Eve did not gradually change physically or progress to maturity as a child/children would do

Man's knowledge can go beyond his experience. The acquistion of knowledge doesnt all have to be experiential (i.e. first-hand) People are known to learn from other people's experience. Besides God taught Adam well and well enough. Adam had the best Teacher, at his disposal to throw questions at, in a quest, to gain more knowledge.

Evidently, Adam was subjected to an accelerated learning process or program, which purposeful was to allow him to think and make reflective judgment(s) concerning what to believe or what not to believe, and so it was that Adam was imparted with enough information by God, to make informed/educated decisions, like whether or not, to choose to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good or Evil (i.e. TKGE)

Inspite of Adam and Eve's thinking abilities and/or reasoning capabilities, Eve was deceived but as for Adam, he wasnt deceived, he, Adam, deliberately decided to mis-behave

Did God know A&E will derail? Of course yes, capital YES, God knew. There is no secret with God. Eating is part of the plan to achieve a purpose and objective
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 3:59pm On Aug 17
MuttleyLaff:
Now this is the thing, no where in scripture will you find God say He does not know. When God exercises anthropomorphism, as in meaning the times, He appears(ed) to us or manifests Himself to us in human form or even attributes to Himself human characteristics, it doesnt mean God is deficient, insufficient and/or lacking in any particular department/faculty

haddeylium, here are a few easy, simple, direct and straightforward questions I would really like you respond to and they are:
2/ Why were names written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain, if not because of foreknowledge?

haddeylium:
I don't quite understand your second question:
and can you quote the Bible verse here
"And all the people who belong to this world worshiped the beast.
They are the ones whose names were not written in the Book of Life
that belongs to the Lamb who was slaughtered before the world was made.
"
- Revelation 13:8

The bible verse is Revelation 13:8 and this second question is concerning your claim that there are things God chooses not to know. That God exercises selected knowledge, so I asked you, why and/or how were names written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain, if not because of foreknowledge, hmm?

I have split the questions into two sectional posts, so it'll be easy for you to individually respond to.

All the first question needed, was a binary answer of Yes or No and not all that waffling you presented.

The second question, is asked, so to check the veracity and test the validity of your claim, that God is selective in what's to know
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 5:58pm On Aug 17
Blabbermouth:
I am the script-writer?
Yes, you are the architect. You are the decider. You build your character. You develop your character. You reveal what you're made up of, you show the world what you are capable of et cetera

Blabbermouth:
Cool! That means I am Foreordaining my own future.
You have the privilege, from God, the Creator, to without prejudice, bias, discrimination et cetera come into existence and express yourself, as best or worst as you possibly are capable or able to

Blabbermouth:
Unfortunately, when I realized that God already knows what I will write even before I was born, we are back to square one again as WHAT I WILL WRITE is totally dependent on WHAT GOD HAS FOREKNOWN ... If God already foreknew that I will choose hell, then this poor boy is helpless because he cannot be right while God is wrong. You see, the puzzle is yet to be solved.
There is nothing unfortunate about you having the privilege to come into existence and be allowed to exist to freely express yourself

Don't bother yourself about God's foreknowledge, but rather bother yourself, on how you increasingly and from day to day, can become more and more, in the likeness and image of God



MuttleyLaff:
It will be a violation of creativity rights and/or abuse of artistic rights to, because of whether one is bad or good, such should be denied the right of expression and freedom of freely without inhibitions to express themselves.

Remember the saying, that a nation gets the leaders and/or government it's deserves, meaning that wherever and however you end, you defo will deserve to be there, so just live life to the best of your ability, understanding and nature. If it's good you excel in, do. If it's evil, you excel in, do. We all will reap what we sow.

Blabbermouth:
Now I understand you completely (97%) and i know where you stand on the matter. Also, I noticed your unwillingness to be blunt and straight with your answer, that's understood (everyone that has penned answers down also did the same). Still, I've caught the essence of your replies, thanks.
I have from my very first post being blunt and straight with my answer to the question you originally raised

This is the thing, you are focusing and putting unnecessary cerebral exertion on ducks not lined up in a row and taking pot shots at them.

You couldn't bring yourself to face up to what you really think God is and/or you couldn't articulate what sort of God, you've so far, got to understand He is
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by haddeylium(m): 8:32pm On Aug 17
MuttleyLaff:


"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ,
that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.
"
- 2 Corinthians 5:10

"For according to a man’s deeds He repays him; according to a man’s ways He brings consequences.
(i.e. He repays people according to their deeds. He treats people as they deserve)
"
- Job 34:11

haddeylium, I did not skip any scripture because I am aware when and where anthropomorphism is in put in to play in a narrative.

I am 1000% sure you wouldn't say that God, literally and/or physically has Arms to save human beings with. Now, if really that there are any implications of God's foredaining of humans sins, to mean that He's responsible for all the wickedness and immorality in this world, then it would be unscriptural, unfair and unjust for any case to come up, where human beings will give account of every thought, deed, action and/or inaction involving them, do you agree, hmm?

Do you think that 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Job 34:11 above are just decorative bible verses ni, hmm?

Fyi haddeylium, Adam and Eve were babies and they certainly weren't children. If God did not know they are capable of doing the right thing, do the right thing at the right time and do the right at the right thing while remaining on His right side, then He wouldn't have left the TKGE centrally and unavoidably placed in the garden of Eden, so all these your proof-texting with "Gen 1:28; 2:26,17" sic and "Matthew 77:11" sic

There is nothing like 17 in your "Gen 1:28; 2:26,17" sic, nor is there a 77 for your "Matthew 77:11" sic, sef

Another fyi haddeylium Adam and Eve were made fully grown and/or developed to be responsible for their actions. They are completely responsible for what they did or not do

Their minds were endowed with accelerated knowledge

Unlike you haddeylium, who I suspect wouldn't accept and agree that, Adam and Eve were not children, Adam, actually, was a grown and strapping specimen of red blooded man. As a matter of fact, He and Eve were not made children nor childish. This means that, Adam and Eve did not gradually change physically or progress to maturity as a child/children would do

Man's knowledge can go beyond his experience. The acquistion of knowledge doesnt all have to be experiential (i.e. first-hand) People are known to learn from other people's experience. Besides God taught Adam well and well enough. Adam had the best Teacher, at his disposal to throw questions at, in a quest, to gain more knowledge.

Evidently, Adam was subjected to an accelerated learning process or program, which purposeful was to allow him to think and make reflective judgment(s) concerning what to believe or what not to believe, and so it was that Adam was imparted with enough information by God, to make informed/educated decisions, like whether or not, to choose to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good or Evil (i.e. TKGE)

Inspite of Adam and Eve's thinking abilities and/or reasoning capabilities, Eve was deceived but as for Adam, he wasnt deceived, he, Adam, deliberately decided to mis-behave

Did God know A&E will derail? Of course yes, capital YES, God knew. There is no secret with God. Eating is part of the plan to achieve a purpose and objective



I read and see how you're contradicting yourself
Loll

Your sincere answers to the following questions will free you of this illusion

Do you believe in freewill?
If Adam and Eve are predestined to go against God...why then were they punished?
Were they not following the script?
Who then should be blamed for all the suffering, injustice in this word?

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 10:03pm On Aug 17
haddeylium:
I read and see how you're contradicting yourself
Loll
Smh. KMT. The last lol is mine

haddeylium:
Your sincere answers to the following questions will free you of this illusion
Do you believe in freewill?
If Adam and Eve are predestined to go against God...why then were they punished?
Were they not following the script?
Who then should be blamed for all the suffering, injustice in this word?
Could you please simply answer the two question I put quite an effort to make it easier for you to reply.

You know that if I should respond to your three questions above there, you havent the skill to correctly reply back to them. Now the answers to all the three questions, you asked about freewill, predestination, writing script and who to blame, have all, at one post or the other, have I already addressed or tackled. Please go over all my posts on this thread, as it will make sense to get abreast of what I've typed of freewill, predestination, writing script and who to blame,
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by haddeylium(m): 10:29pm On Aug 17
MuttleyLaff:
Smh. KMT. The last lol is mine

Could you please simply answer the two question I put quite an effort to make it easier for you to reply.

You know that if I should respond to your three questions above there, you havent the skill to correctly reply back to them. Now the answers to all the three questions, you asked about freewill, predestination, writing script and who to blame, have all, at one post or the other, have I already addressed or tackled. Please go over all my posts on this thread, as it will make sense to get abreast of what I've typed of freewill, predestination, writing script and who to blame,


Alright, you believe Adam's sin was God's will, God's plan right?
So, I'm saying...
If I were to do something you wanted me to do...would you condemn for it?
If Adam's sin was God's will, why was Adam driven out of the garden as sinner?

Jah is a God of love(1 John 4:cool-would it be loving to condemn someone for what you planned them to do?

It's not God will for Adam to sin, he warned them against it(2:17)

Adam like us has freewill that God gave him to choose what he would do.
Adam chooses to rebel against God.

If you follow this aptly and open-mindedly giving sincere answers from a neutral view. It will give you answers to the truth you seek.

Shalom
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 10:32pm On Aug 17
haddeylium:
Alright, you believe Adam's sin was God's will, God's plan right?
So, I'm saying...
If I were to do something you wanted me to do...would you condemn for it?
If Adam's sin was God's will, why was Adam driven out of the garden as sinner?

Jah is a God of love(1 John 4:8 )- would it be loving to condemn someone for what you planned them to do?

It's not God will for Adam to sin, he warned them against it(2:17)

Adam like us has freewill that God gave him to choose what he would do.
Adam chooses to rebel against God.

If you follow this aptly and open-mindedly giving sincere answers from a neutral view. It will give you answers to the truth you seek.

Shalom
Could you please simply answer the two questions I put quite an effort to make it easier for you to reply to, hmm?.

All the first question needed, was a binary answer of, Yes or No and not all that waffling you presented.

The second question, is asked, so to check the veracity and test the validity of your claim, that God is selective in what's to know
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by haddeylium(m): 10:48pm On Aug 17
MuttleyLaff:
Could you please simply answer the two questions I put quite an effort to make it easier for you to reply to, hmm?.

All the first question needed, was a binary answer of, Yes or No and not all that waffling you presented.

The second question, is asked, so to check the veracity and test the validity of your claim, that God is selective in what's to know


I can see you've made up your mind already
You've ever considered a chances of being wrong?
What if what you have is not the complete truth?
You ever considered seeking God's accurate knowledge aligning with what 'God of love' that want good things for his creatures teaches?..

What's the yes or no questions you asked?
I think I answered everything....
It's left to you to believe what the Bible teach...
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 10:59pm On Aug 17
haddeylium:
I can see you've made up your mind already
You've ever considered a chances of being wrong?
What if what you have is not the complete truth?
You ever considered seeking God's accurate knowledge aligning with what 'God of love' that want good things for his creatures teaches?..

What's the yes or no questions you asked?
I think I answered everything....
It's left to you to believe what the Bible teach...

Precious time, waster, stealer, killer and question(s) dodger of a person
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by jesusjnr2020(m): 1:02am On Aug 18
haddeylium:



I read and see how you're contradicting yourself
Loll


Your sincere answers to the following questions will free you of this illusion

Do you believe in freewill?
If Adam and Eve are predestined to go against God...why then were they punished?
Were they not following the script?
Who then should be blamed for all the suffering, injustice in this word?
@ bolded exactly reason I missed his stating of freewill and saw yours first. Yet he wondered why, but it seems he later saw that the freewill he stated was opposed to everything else he was saying, hence his modifying his comment.

Predestination and freewill cannot operate at the same time in the same instance. It's either this or that.

God is not willing that any man perishes but that all come to repentance. So it cannot be said that God predestinated some to perish when it wasn't His Will.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by OtemAtum: 6:28am On Aug 18
ediama:
YES.

The Book of Revelation says it all.

Wonder why many dread it!
The book of revelation reveals the ignorance of Jehovah. Imagine, in the future of christian heaven, they are using candlesticks, burning incense, using horses and using scrolls to write whereas on earth currently we have iPhone, tablets, electricity and aeroplanes and jets. The book of Revelation is a scam.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by shadeyinka(m): 7:22am On Aug 18
Blabbermouth:
Since time immemorial, man had always and will always continue to attribute what he cannot do and isn't capable of as part of God's sovereign ability.
Even if there are many many denominations in Christianity, I believe every of them agree that God is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. We don't have issues with the last 2 Omni - (for now) , so we will just concentrate on the first one. While this omniscient attribute is sweet to the ears, I want to know if God himself actually claimed/said that he "knows the future".
The floor is open, I don't want substance less opinions and replies invented from what you feel is true or right, instead;
GIVE YOUR ANSWER
DROP SCRIPTURES THAT SUPPORT YOUR ANSWER
EXPLAIN HOW THE SCRIPTURE PROVES THAT GOD KNOWS THE FUTURE.
Cc: Kobojunkie, Maximus69, Jesusjnr2020, MuttleyLaff, Shadeyinka, solite3, budaatum, sonmvayina, Hiswordxray

Isa 46:10:
"declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past things which were not done, saying, My purpose shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure;"
Jer 1:5:
"Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I consecrated you, [and] I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

Rev 13:8:
"And all dwelling on the earth will worship it, those whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain, from the foundation of the world."

What is Foreknowledge?
1Pet 1:20:
"indeed having been foreknown before [the] foundation of [the] world, but revealed in [the] last times for you,"
Rom 8:29:
"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that the Son might be the firstborn among many brothers."

If God can foreknow ( past, present and future) how is this different omniscience?

If God created time, is He still subject to it?

Foreknowledge of beings with freewill cannot be less than absolute knowledge. What do you think?

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 7:50am On Aug 18
MuttleyLaff:
As time is a snitch, time definitely, will tell, lol. Bad habits, though, are hard to break from, also a leopard doesnt change its black spots, lol.

Hell will have to first freeze up for any chance of a jesusjnr 3-day resurrection, lol. Thinks that's how "jnr" operates and/or works, lol. Of course why and/or how does this cat have more than nine lives, it's because of the various incognito monikers now.

budaatum is feeling guilty jesusjnr rested on her sword because its budaatum who gave jesusjnr a way out, the chance to climb and get out of the deep big hole she dug and jumped herself into. Courtesy the dare, jesusjnr, now has the chance to re-brand and to like a phoenix, rise out of the ashes she cowardly died in.

The doing of jesusjnr anyway, was something predictable. In the end it happened and it's right. She had a good run, had the time of her life, but at the end of the day, I'll always say about her, that good riddance to bad rubbish. The forum is a better place and safer without jesusjnr
angry angry angry


The unrepentant and shameless incessant troll got trapped, caught in a tight corner, then turned into a deer in the headlights of budaatum's car and thereafter helplessly got herself checkmated by budaatum's black Queen, and so she cowardly had no choice than to lean forward and firmly rest on her sharp pointed out sword, lol, bwahahaha. A shortest fool's mate that seemed and looked like a longest because we all had to wait until the 31st to see blood.



MuttleyLaff:
Smh. so you want to tell me that you dont know what difference "absolute" means when I used that as my starting off point, hmm?

Smh. Before you were conceived and even born from your mother womb, God had already before you being on the board, had experienced every move on the board until the end that you've made. He has seen all your blunders, your silly moves, your suicidal move, your check mate yourself moves, but still allows you to comes into existence because creativity should never be aborted, killed off, truncated, stifled et cetera. You are part of the Godhead's creative energy, and no matter where you are going to end up, you have creative rights to exist so to express yourself, equipped with freewill. I won't go further on than here, bar you lead me to shed more light



jesusjnr2020:
I find it very strange that I had to travel through many comments here, before I could get to one which stated the most decisive factor with respect to your question @haddeylium which is freewill.

Freewill is what everything hinges on. The outcome of man's freewill is what determines and predestinates the future. And the freewill was deliberately given to man by God because He didn't want a fixed outcome but a multiple one and He wanted the outcome to be determined by man.

So God knew it could pan out either way, and He's prepared for whatever comes out of man's freewill.

Therefore the answer to your question is that God is omniscient and He knows the future and everything else as far as the world was concerned, but He didn't fix it, man did! By the choices he made.

It's been quite a while bro. I do hope you're doing great.

Thanks and God bless.

jesusjnr2020:
@ bolded exactly reason I missed his stating of freewill and saw yours first. Yet he wondered why, but it seems he later saw that the freewill he stated was opposed to everything else he was saying, hence his modifying his comment.
I am sure you had time to read the lashing remark I typed before I withdrew it. The only reason why I modified my lashing comment, was because I thought my freewill mentioning that has a 9:45pm On Aug 16 time stamp, came latter than the freewill 9:46pm On Aug 16 time stamp mentioned by haddeylium.

Now, having properly reviewed the post, and confirmed that I had from earliest, had mentioned freewill first, I'll now repeat what I modified in my edited post, that you must have skimmed through the thread, hurriedly read the post without taking careful consideration to attention to details or that you need an appointment with SpecSavers for vision correction for you to not have noticed that it was my freewill mention that was done first and not the one haddeylium made. I find it very strange that you travelled through many comments but poor vision and lack of attention to detail, made you miss the first mention before haddeylium's.

Your bible sub literacy, pontification, culture of narcissism, dogmatism and fanaticism, your complete lack of integrity and monomania focusing on yourself has again betrayed you as nothing other than an empty barrel. I'll now below following, prove and show you how much of an empty barrel making noise you are


jesusjnr2020:
Predestination and freewill cannot operate at the same time in the same instance. It's either this or that.
With God, predestination and freewill works at the same time and in the same instance, because there is nothing in predestination and freewill operating at that the same time and same instance that is impossible for God not to handle.

Watch this jesusjnr2020 aka jesusjnr RIP, if before you and/or haddeylium, I had watched a behind closed doors, a live full time football match between Man United and Arsenal football club and knew the final score, but you and/or haddeylium, say, two hours later, came to watch a recorded version of the same match. Would you say that because or since I had earlier watched the match live, that, as far as you and/or haddeylium are concerned, then the score line or the final result of the game was predetermined or predestined, hmm?

Now using the above scenario, but with filling in the blanks, as in meaning, God watched the behind closed door full time football match between Man United and Arsenal football club and knew the final score.

Here is the thing, eleven guys in your neighbourhood were in the Arsenal team while eleven other guys from haddeylium's adjacent neighbourhood were in the Man United team, all men played the full 90 minutes of the game with an end score or final result of 2-0 in favour of Arsenal. Now, God had watched the football game live before you got to know the outcome of the game, but if He were to tell you the results He has foreknown before you get to watch a recorded play of the match, are you going to say, God predetermined/predestined the outcome of match, when knowing fully well that the outcome was as a result of the performances of and efforts put in by the 25 men on the pitch, including the two lines-persons and referee, with all sorts of freewill engaging on the pitch, huh?


jesusjnr2020:
God is not willing that any man perishes but that all come to repentance. So it cannot be said that God predestinated some to perish when it wasn't His Will.
"3So in the course of time, Cain brought some of the fruit of the soil as an offering to the LORD,
4while Abel brought the best portions of the firstborn of his flock.
And the LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering,
5but He had no regard for Cain and his offering. So Cain became very angry, and his countenance fell.
6“Why are you angry,” said the LORD to Cain, “and why has your countenance fallen?
7If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?
But if you refuse to do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires you, but you must master it.”
8Then Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let us go out to the field.”
And while they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him
."
- Genesis 4:3-8

God is not willing that any man perishes but that all come to repentance, but if you are Cain who doesnt and who won't change, then you're certainly as God knew beforehand will be end up facing destruction

Why didn't God prevent Cain from killing Abel? Are you saying that God opted to selective knowledge so not to know whether or not Cain will butcher Abel ni? Smh KMT

Why didnt God infringe on Cain's freewill to carry out his dastardly act on his brother, Abel, erhn? Had God not foresaw and foreknow what Cain will do ni, hmm?

Freewill can be an abused, misused and confused concept. God knows the end of a matter and person from the beginning of that matter or person, and is the very good reason why and how there is no disharmony between freewill and predestination/predetermination.

God knows that Cain, based on him exercising freewill, is a bag egg, but He still did not stop Cain, from coming into existence because Cain's right to freedom of expression and/or of expressing himself, on earth, should not be denied him. Besides, there is no circumstance, predestination and freewill occurring at the same time/instance, or not, that is beyond the control of God or that is too hard for God to handle
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by kkins25(m): 8:40pm On Aug 18
MuttleyLaff:
God foreknows every human acts and every human acts is predestined because God is privy and/or aware of all human acts before the action actually or physically happens

in order words, you mean to "fore know every human act" is the computation of the the multitude of choices or the sum probability of an event occurring,that is the infinite plethora of causes and effects of which only one outcome is possible. common men, pick a dice(with six sides, duh!) you know there is a 1/6 chances of any outcome. To open the game you have to play a six, you see- when God rolled the dice with Adam and eve, he didn't expect it to hit less than 6. when the disgracing and shameful little number one popped up, God ran MAD. He knew it was possible, but didn't think that he'd fail -being the Genius He is. wink

Freewill and foreknowledge are not handicaps, they dont in any shame or form put God at an disadvantage. The word of God in Isaiah 55:11 emphatically says: "That's how it is with my words. They don't return to me without doing everything I send them to do."
When he sent out his word to Adam saying, ".. of the fruit of knowledge of Good and Evil,thou shall not eat of.." i do not think His "words" did everything He sent them to. grin grin

It was me who advanced Isaiah 46:10, in where God, emphatically states: "Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish"
of course. I can do the same with a horse and a donkey when i want them to cross breed. Or with a cat and a dog when i want them to bare teeth. I necessarily not be the utmost of powers to do this.

Now this is the thing, no where in scripture will you find God say He does not know. When God exercises anthropomorphism, as in meaning the times, He appears(ed) to us or manifests Himself to us in human form or even attributes to Himself human characteristics, it doesn't mean God is deficient, insufficient and/or lacking in any particular department/faculty
like as if it was God who wrote the scripture. Has jesusjnr2020 hacked your account and is typing as you ??undecided undecided undecided

haddeylium, here are a few easy, simple, direct and straightforward questions I would really like you respond to and they are:
1/ Did God not foreknow that A&E will eat of the TKGE well in advance before it happened?
Please go back to my dice analogy. it was a possible outcome. should in-case you've forgotten the formula, it is; number of required outcomes/ total number of possible outcome. Hence 1/2 for Adam and 1/2 for eve.

2/ Why were names written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain, if not because of foreknowledge?
if foreknowledge were the only criteria then truly we are saved by grace and nothing more. works are rendered useless. what then is the essence of giving to the poor, visiting the widow, and praying for healing for the sick?
"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world."-James 1:27
Are you saying God created me to fight against the Christendom and Islamic world? Are you saying, Saddam Hussein was fulfilling his predestined life when he maneuvered the plane into the world trade center at 9/11?


I'd review sharpish, my theology, if I were you, to find out and understand, what objective(s) is God aiming to achieve from creating human beings, the likes of Blabbermouth, haddeylium, DappaD, Janosky, Maximus69, kkins25, Bodydialect57, FOLYKAZE et al and what situational problem is He, forever, once and for all, aiming to solve, so that, maybe after then, the penny will drop and everything will fall in place with a better and clearer perspective of this whole matter


We have all been born to experience this life with the gift of Free will bestowed upon us by the God of Biology whom i adore amongst others. Before i Became Kkins25 i was energy with no brain and mind to experience life, i was but a minuscule portion of the Unified theory of Everything(whatever it may be), existing in parts shared equally between my biological parents. However, when my fathers penis robbed- vigorously, the wet tissues of my mothers vagina, he gave up- unwillingly, the portion of me residing in him. i raced against my brothers, lo and behold, veni vidi vici- thus, I AM.
My purpose in life is one in which God has assigned for me. Don't rejoice when i say God, for God is a many things sir, the God i speak of is the one called Leo who's mane portrays the magnificent image of the sun. why don't you give this a try and tell me what you think
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 9:54pm On Aug 18
kkins25:
in order words, you mean to "fore know every human act" is the computation of the the multitude of choices or the sum probability of an event occurring, that is the infinite plethora of causes and effects of which only one outcome is possible. common men, pick a dice(with six sides, duh!) you know there is a 1/6 chances of any outcome. To open the game you have to play a six, you see- when God rolled the dice with Adam and eve, he didn't expect it to hit less than 6. when the disgracing and shameful little number one popped up, God ran MAD. He knew it was possible, but didn't think that he'd fail -being the Genius He is. wink
Face palm and smh

God is not mad and never mad. With that out of the and without you thinking to bring up there is a method in the madness to argue with, it will interest you to know that A&E, almost pulled it off. They almost passed the validity, reliability and justifiability all rolled into one test, but stumbled at the last hour hurdle.

"fore know every human act" means Omni know all the moves on the board and have answer(s) to counter or complement each and every move

God knows the end of a matter from the beginning, so meaning He already was privy to the fact that A&E failed, just as they truly did fail and let themselves down, hence why Eve was already sorrowful and disappointed before her sorrows and disappointments got multiplied


kkins25:
When he sent out his word to Adam saying, ".. of the fruit of knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shall not eat of.." i do not think His "words" did everything He sent them to. grin grin
Please why don't you humour me more, in telling me what exactly else, do you think His words is expected to do more than the command and warning already said to Adam, hmm?

kkins25:
of course. I can do the same with a horse and a donkey when i want them to cross breed. Or with a cat and a dog when i want them to bare teeth. I necessarily not be the utmost of powers to do this.
I am please to see you admit you cant match God in the prowess department of knowing everything well in advance

kkins25:
like as if it was God who wrote the scripture. Has jesusjnr2020 hacked your account and is typing as you ??undecided undecided undecided
Please don't mention that fake arse, charlatan, attention seeker, narcissist, disgraced, shamed and humiliated individual here where honourable women of virtue and men of valour are congregated

kkins25:
Please go back to my dice analogy. it was a possible outcome. should in-case you've forgotten the formula, it is; number of required outcomes/ total number of possible outcome. Hence 1/2 for Adam and 1/2 for Eve.
All these algebra and permutations are unnecessary. The simple, easy, direct and straightforward no brainer question requires simple a binary answer of Yes or No

kkins25:
if foreknowledge were the only criteria then truly we are saved by grace and nothing more. works are rendered useless.
Go back over the thread, to see that the second question you've given this response to, was asked because of the poster postulating that God indulges in selective knowledge, meaning that there are things, that God, rather than know, buries His Head in the sand as if like an ostrich, and not wanting to know. So that is why and how the second question was asked

kkins25:
what then is the essence of giving to the poor, visiting the widow, and praying for healing for the sick?
"Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world."-James 1:27
"The LORD is compassionate and gracious, patient,
and abundantly rich in gracious love."
- Psalm 103:8

God is compassionate, so the essence, is, if you really want to reflect and/or be made in the image of the Godhead, then you'll exude the ethos of James 1:27


kkins25:
Are you saying God created me to fight against the Christendom and Islamic world? Are you saying, Saddam Hussein was fulfilling his predestined life when he maneuvered the plane into the world trade center at 9/11?
Do you prevent an artist/painter from expressing themselves, hmm? Do you keep an author from putting his/her thoughts on paper with pen, erhn?
Every human being is behaving according to his/her inherent nature.

You are entitled to come into existence and feely exercise however you want to express yourself. If it is evil, God has an answer for it and if it is good God equally to has an answer for that too. I am saying the wheat and tares are permitted to co-exist


kkins25:
We have all been born to experience this life with the gift of Free will bestowed upon us by the God of Biology whom i adore amongst others. Before i Became Kkins25 i was energy with no brain and mind to experience life, i was but a minuscule portion of the Unified theory of Everything(whatever it may be), existing in parts shared equally between my biological parents. However, when my fathers penis robbed- vigorously, the wet tissues of my mothers vagina, he gave up- unwillingly, the portion of me residing in him. i raced against my brothers, lo and behold, veni vidi vici- thus, I AM.
My purpose in life is one in which God has assigned for me. Don't rejoice when i say God, for God is a many things sir, the God i speak of is the one called Leo who's mane portrays the magnificent image of the sun. why don't you give this a try and tell me what you think
Spare us the graphics, thank you very much.

Whatever influences you is your god/God. Whatever empowers you is your god/God. Whatever you have trust in, is your god/God. Whatever you reverence, is your god/God. Whatever you adore, worship, pray to, have a meaningful relationship with, is your god/God

1 Like

Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 10:10pm On Aug 18
shadeyinka:

If God can foreknow ( past, present and future) how is this different omniscience?
If God created time, is He still subject to it?
Foreknowledge of beings with freewill cannot be less than absolute knowledge. What do you think?
Now, you are claiming (along with supporting scriptures) that God knows the future absolutely. Knowing the future is not really the big issue, the inevitable question is if God knows the future , who wrote/ordained the future ?
2. Do you believe in the concept of freewill?

The scripture says the names of the chosen ones have been written before the foundation of the world... Doesn't that mean that the whole world is just a stage?
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 10:32pm On Aug 18
jesusjnr2020:

Freewill is what everything hinges on. The outcome of man's freewill is what determines and predestinates the future. And the freewill was deliberately given to man by God because He didn't want a fixed outcome but a multiple one and He wanted the outcome to be determined by man.

So God knew it could pan out either way, and He's prepared for whatever comes out of man's freewill.
From this, I believe you are saying that the future is like a dice (multiple possible outcomes) and man's freewill is what determines the result. You said "God knew it could pan out either way and he's prepared for whatever comes....." , that would mean God knows every possible outcome but he doesn't know the final outcome - If this is not what you mean then there is no room for freewill whatever.

Therefore the answer to your question is that God is omniscient and He knows the future and everything else as far as the world was concerned, but He didn't fix it, man did! By the choices he made.

It's been quite a while bro. I do hope you're doing great.

Thanks and God bless.
In this section, I believe you are claiming now that God knows the exact outcome and not just the multiple possible outcomes- this is what being omniscient ( and knowing the future) means - If so, then again there is no room for freewill.

Everyone (except MuttleyLaff though) is trying to stitch God's omniscience along with man's freewill, if that omniscience involves the future, then freewill is just a fantasy.
It's been a while... I've been good.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 10:49pm On Aug 18
MuttleyLaff:
Yes, you are the architect. You are the decider. You build your character. You develop your character. You reveal what you're made up of, you show the world what you are capable of et cetera
Alright.

Don't bother yourself about God's foreknowledge, but rather bother yourself, on how you increasingly and from day to day, can become more and more, in the likeness and image of God[/size]



Sadly, this is 100% dependent on what God has foreknown. I can't increase if He has foreknown that I will decrease, I can't become more and more in the likeness of his image if he has foreknown that I will never be like him.
I won't use seatbelt anymore as I will only die if He has foreknown of my death. Whenever I feel sick I won't take my medications, (not because I am full of faith) but because I know that my survival is dependent on His foreknowledge. I will resign from work as it has been stressful and will only play bet9ja whenever I feel like, my success is dependent on what God has foreknown and not my individual endeavor.
This is what Happens with the stance that God has already watched my live match even before he created me and that's what Haddeylium is trying to point out.
However, I believe your stance is somehow consistent with the scriptures so I am cool with your answer.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 10:51pm On Aug 18
Blabbermouth:
From this, I believe you are saying that the future is like a dice (multiple possible outcomes) and man's freewill is what determines the result. You said "God knew it could pan out either way and he's prepared for whatever comes....." , that would mean God knows every possible outcome but he doesn't know the final outcome - If this is not what you mean then there is no room for freewill whatever.
Why are you saying God doesnt know the final answer when He already said He knows the future, that He knows the end of a matter from the before the beginning of it, hmm?

Blabbermouth:
In this section, I believe you are claiming now that God knows the exact outcome and not just the multiple possible outcomes- this is what being omniscient ( and knowing the future) means - If so, then again there is no room for freewill
Your problems Blabbermouth are that, you're looking for a technicality, a cop out, an escapism, escape clause and lastly you dont understand what the purpose of freewill is.

Would you rather, God allowed you to exist as a mountain or river, than be a human being with freewill to exercise and give expression of yourself with, hmm?


Blabbermouth:
Everyone (except MuttleyLaff though) is trying to stitch God's omniscience along with man's freewill, if that omniscience involves the future, then freewill is just a fantasy.
It's been a while... I've been good.
God's Omni know all, His Omniscience, His state of knowing everything, doesnt not interfere with anyone's freewill. You'll never find God ever forcing any human being to do stuff against their will or wish. It just doesnt happen. Though God knows well in advance all human beings, every single thought, actions, deeds, and/or moves, He doesnt flick an imaginary built in switch in human being to act against what they aim, plan, intend to do. God will influence, will warn, will advise, will instruct, but the buck stops with the individual. It is the individual who by themselves decides what action they want or not want to do
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 10:54pm On Aug 18
Everyone believe in the existence of FUTURE, yet I've never met anyone born of a woman that lives his life as if A FUTURE ALREADY EXIST BEFORE IT IS CREATED.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by Blabbermouth: 11:07pm On Aug 18
haddeylium:


Please, go through it again and slowly this time sir.
And how do you define forthtell and foretell?
Forthtell - to CAUSE the future
Foretell- to KNOW (by divine insight) what will happen in the future.
I've gone through your post again... Before I deduce, please tell me
1. What's freewill to you?
2. Who ordains the man's future God or Man?
3. If your answer to qst.2 is "Man", then can God know what a man will ordain before he ordains it?
4. If your answer to qst.3 is Yes, Do explain how freewill is INDEPENDENT of foreknowledge.
Re: Does God Really Know The Future? by MuttleyLaff: 11:14pm On Aug 18
Blabbermouth:
I went through it again... Before I make my final deductions, do you....
1. Believe in Freewill?
As a human being, freewill is a fundamental right, so capital YES, I believe in freewill

Blabbermouth:
2. Believe that man ordains his own future
Capital YES, I know that man ordain his future and that inspite of God having prior knowledge, still allows man to carry out whatever decision man has chosen to do or not do

Blabbermouth:
3. Can God know what a man will choose (say, next year) before he (the man) ordains it
God told prophet Jeremiah, that before he the prophet was conceived in his mother's womb, He, God had known, the prophet. On top, God said before the prophet was born He had known the prophet too

God knows what you'll do in 5 years, time, 10 years time and even 100 years time, if you get to live that long

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