Hermes119:


If a man wants to shoot your son,would you prevent him from doing so ?
By so doing aren't you restricting his free will and preventing him from exhibiting his real nature ?

You err!
First, You are NOT God's children.
And
Unfortunately, death is just HOME COMING!

Hermes119:


Let me save us the trouble of this back and forth as we are already derailing from the point I'm trying to make. Please answer this question and I would indeed love it if u can give me a simple and direct reply.

ASSUMING God seeks your counsel on punishment for sin would you support the hell punishment or suggest something finite and less gruesome ?

Now like your predecessors you can choose to avoid giving a direct answer to the question and rather focus on finding faults in the question and of course the reason is obvious,a direct answer would either implicate your faith or humanity

Your question is easy to answer.

As a human being, from my small frame of reference, I will ask for a punishment less than eternal torment. I will want something proportionate to earths solar calendar punishment.

Unfortunately for me, I didn't decide that eternity will be timeless. I didn't decide that man should live forever. I didn't decide anything in my frame of reference.

Like I told you before. If God is perceived to be higher than man in comparison to man and bacteria in his toilet, the question of morality of God could be debated

If you feel the gap is just about equal with God and man (as with man and bacteria) shoot your shot!


Your warnings, you have treated as scornful. In the consequence you wish to pull out the card of morality. I am NOT your judge. Your judge is God and every microbe useless to Him, he rejects perpetually!

shadeyinka:

You are NOT of God's family.

You are a mere PRIMATE Mammal living on the earth!

[img]https://media./images/5125172e8d8d9f17ef426afd74653e97/tenor.gif[/img]

Infinite punishment for finite crimes (sins) is only a concept that can come from a sick, masochistic, sadist god who luckily doesn't exist except in the twisted heads of his indoctrinated followers.

shadeyinka:

Your question is easy to answer.

As a human being, from my small frame of reference, I will ask for a punishment less than eternal torment. I will want something proportionate to earths solar calendar punishment.


Unfortunately for me, I didn't decide that eternity will be timeless. I didn't decide that man should live forever. I didn't decide anything in my frame of reference.

Like I told you before. If God is perceived to be higher than man in comparison to man and bacteria in his toilet, the question of morality of God could be debated

If you feel the gap is just about equal with God and man (as with man and bacteria) shoot your shot!


Your warnings, you have treated as scornful. In the consequence you wish to pull out the card of morality. I am NOT your judge. Your judge is God and every microbe useless to Him, he rejects perpetually!

the bolded is what I have been asking you and your compatriots,at least we agree that humans should be given finite punishments for finite transgression.

The difference between the both of us is that I question God's decision to punish finite transgression with the hell concept which is totally unreasonable to me and that casts aspersions on God's nature .On the other hand,you a Christian accepts whatever the bible says and whatever your God does is acceptable in your eyes even if he hurts human beings in the most painful way you would accept that as being just and Godly

@ your last paragraph, since humans by nature are insignificant to your God I wonder why he is interested in us,I wonder why our actions hurt him I mean a microbe can not move my emotions,how come we are able to move Gods emotion's ?. So much for microscopic humans ? .
Anyways since we as humans are so despised by your God,he can treat us as he wishes,he can give us punishments that are unimaginable,he can choose to not intercede when people are suffering,I wonder why you worship him but that's not my concern,however requesting others to join you in such toxic relationship is disdainful to me

shadeyinka:

You err!
First, You are NOT God's children.
And
Unfortunately, death is just HOME COMING!

Oh really,what happened to

"I SHALL NOT DIE BUT LIVE TO DECLARE THE WORKS OF THE LORD"

and how does your reply fit into the question I asked

Hermes119:


the bolded is what I have been asking you and your compatriots,at least we agree that humans should be given finite punishments for finite transgression.

The difference between the both of us is that I question God's decision to punish finite transgression with the hell concept which is totally unreasonable to me and that casts aspersions on God's nature .On the other hand,you a Christian accepts whatever the bible says and whatever your God does is acceptable in your eyes even if he hurts human beings in the most painful way you would accept that as being just and Godly

@ your last paragraph, since humans by nature are insignificant to your God I wonder why he is interested in us,I wonder why our actions hurt him I mean a microbe can not move my emotions,how come we are able to move Gods emotion's ?. So much for microscopic humans ? .
Anyways since we as humans are so despised by your God,he can treat us as he wishes,he can give us punishments that are unimaginable,he can choose to not intercede when people are suffering,I wonder why you worship him but that's not my concern,however requesting others to join you in such toxic relationship is disdainful to me

I gave you my view as a bacteria will judge with respect of other bacteria in the toilet. I did not judge according to how a man will view bacteria in his toilet.

I think I've also explained to you that our view or wish is inconsequential in this matter AND that the morality of God can only be question if the disparity between Him and us is finite.

Your last paragraph:
Interestingly, the Psalmist also wondered about that question in the scripture:

Ps 8:4-7: "What is man, that you are mindful of him? and the son of man, that you visit him? For you have made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned him with glory and honor. You made him to have dominion over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field;"

I can put it this way:
1. Man was designed to be the peak of God's creations
2. Man was made to be gods in the universe
3. Man was made eternal by the reason of God's spirit in him
4. Man was made as a finite image of God.
5. Man was made with free will to decide if he would live his life dependent on God or if he would choose the path of independence from God

Those who choose their independence do not serve Gods purpose, hence they are rejected and placed in a confinement and prison called Hell

LordReed:


[img]https://media./images/5125172e8d8d9f17ef426afd74653e97/tenor.gif[/img]

...And Star dust!

Hermes119:


Oh really,what happened to

"I SHALL NOT DIE BUT LIVE TO DECLARE THE WORKS OF THE LORD"

and how does your reply fit into the question I asked

Stop twisting the scriptures out of context.

Is there a human being who doesn't die!?

Image123:


Like that silly boy hahn and most of you, you overrate yourself as humans in comparison with God. The weirdness is that you often underrate yourself as humans in comparison with animals. What you fail to keep in account is that time on earth is SOWING time. You don't realize the greatness and awesomeness of God that created the Universe. How often have you given thought to the billions/trillions of plants and animals that die or her consumed yearly. What is man? Don't you realize that earth and humanity is much more insignificant in comparison to a God who made the whole universe? But the whole beautiful story of grace links us with Him.

Can you compare the size of a seed with the tree it produces, it is much much more. Can you compare the tiny micro sperm and egg sown to produce the human body? It is much much more. But you compare your 80year seed to eternity and you say it is unfair or doesn't make sense to you. It may not make sense to you but it is definitely and eerily consistent with nature's reality.
Here in our little atmosphere, you think that's where the world finishes. Those who have gone to ordinary moon that you see from far, they know that things are entirely different there. Most of what matters here doesn't work there. Ordinary footsteps made on the moon over 50years ago are still there because there is no wind there. But someone thinks God has forgotten their actions here and it is not firmly recorded. You are joking. The day of God's wrath is coming. If you like, think it with your myopic prisms. The Person that is in charge of the Universe will think up your seed on that day. i pray it will be a pretty eternity harvest for you all.

Long post. No sense.

hahn:


Long post. No sense.

How can such make sense to a primate ape and star dust!?

The colony of bacteria in a toilet are discussing the morality of humans wasting hundreds of millions of them with terrible chemicals of mass destruction and genocide. Is it their toilet?

How can it make sense to you!?

sonmvayina:


My dear, God is not a man or human being, how many times will I tell you this ? Stop using human ways or attributes to define God..God is the creator and not part of creation...

Get sense, it is not rocket science..

Interpretation: "I know no wetin to talk na but I no fit leave am like dat na"

shadeyinka:

The JWs will say: you should make the man sleep in an unconscious state forever!

Atheists will say: you don't have any power of the dead for the dead are just manure

I would laugh at the JW because one of their own in support with his fellow Jws, nearly broke the head of a little girl, who insulted their daughter.

If they could kill just for this reason, we know how they shall surely feel when the offending soul is cast into the Fire at that time. They will never say "No, it is too much oh, don't put her there"

For atheist, ah na dier own easy pass, just jam and break e trafficator, you go no say lake of Fire go open under your feet and if you no quick fall enter e go push you enter

My point, men Lie that they do not require justice and judgment because they no longer remember how they violently reacted and responded when a wrong or evil was perpetrated on them.

But at the material time, the Judgment which they seek, Brightly Shows!

shadeyinka:

How can such make sense to a primate ape and star dust!?

The colony of bacteria in a toilet are discussing the morality of humans wasting hundreds of millions of them with terrible chemicals of mass destruction and genocide. Is it their toilet?

How can it make sense to you!?

Your shots are very sweet and on target. Very beautiful Goal

Hermes119:

ASSUMING God seeks your counsel on punishment for sin would you support the hell punishment or suggest something finite and less gruesome ?

Sorry to butt in "P.O (Preliminary Objection)" erm sir, erm, it is crazy and ludicrous for a surgeon to go to Play Group and Ask one of them "please, I need a consult, I want to do an open heart surgery, how do you recommend I proceed?"

Dtruthspeaker:


Your shots are very sweet and on target. Very beautiful Goal

Thanks bro!

truespeak:


Sorry to butt in "P.O (Preliminary Objection)" erm sir, erm, it is crazy and ludicrous for a surgeon to go to Play Group and Ask one of them "please, I need a consult, I want to do an open heart surgery, how do you recommend I proceed?"

"Objection Sustained"! I hereby order the question struck off the record for ludicrity and vexation and wasting the time of this honourable court. Punitive Cost is hereby awarded in the sum of N50,000 paid into this court by the next adjournment."! "Gbam"

Dtruthspeaker:


"Objection Sustained"! I hereby order the question struck off the record for ludicrity and vexation and wasting the time of this honourable court. Punitive Cost is hereby awarded in the sum of N50,000 paid into this court by the next adjournment."! "Gbam"

Thank You, My Lordship, for this Rightfully and Well Considered Judgement.

Dtruthspeaker:


I would laugh at the JW because one of their own in support with his fellow Jws, nearly broke the head of a little girl, who insulted their daughter.

If they could kill just for this reason, we know how they shall surely feel when the offending soul is cast into the Fire at that time. They will never say "No, it is too much oh, don't put her there"

For atheist, ah na dier own easy pass, just jam and break e trafficator, you go no say lake of Fire go open under your feet and if you no quick fall enter e go push you enter

My point, men Lie that they do not require justice and judgment because they no longer remember how they violently reacted and responded when a wrong or evil was perpetrated on them.

But at the material time, the Judgment which they seek, Brightly Shows!

The problem of JWs is that they want to paint God as this soft old man who is so gentle that he couldn't hurt a fly. As far as they are concerned, the punishment of Rapists, Murderers, and gross wickedness is a reward with a dreamless sleep-like non-existence.
If that was a punishment it's like making prisons like a five star hotel for prisoners. Even honest citizens will not mind living in such a place.

If Shadrach Meshach and Abednigo could be in fire and not be consumed, their argument of annihilation falls to pieces.

As for atheists, they want a God who can be fitted inside their pocket. There butterfly thinks itself a bird

Believe whatever gives you a sound sleep at night.

shadeyinka:

On the surface you look like you are making some good sense except that you didn't factor in the fact that in eternity time doesn't exist!

Do you think a righteous God should punish rapists, murderers, evil and all who cause pain for others?

The punishment is a rejection of such kinds of people into God's refuse bin because they have been REJECTED as unsuitable for living in God's kingdom. The place of rejection is called HELL. In hell, the punishment is proportional to the gravity of negative lifestyle of such a person.

Now, about your argument of a man living on earth for a mere 80years while his punishment will last for millions of years. This is an absolute display of ignorance concerning time. TIME doesn't exist in eternity!

Let me explain with an example and analogy to you if perhaps you will be humble enough to understand. An example of our experience where events take place in a timeless environment is in our DREAMS. Within a dream world, you can get pregnant, give birth to a baby and send the child to secondary school. Within the dream space, you feel like it is normal time. But in real solar calendar time, all the dream could be in 5minuites.

In other words, Hell is like being locked in a perpetual NIGHTMARE. It looks real, it feels real (for it is real) but in a realm where time doesn't exist!

If you can't comprehend this, so be it!

The more you try to explain Hell in complication makes me realize that you all know it is all bullsh!t....this is very simple..... A group of sinners with different level of sin live and die at various ages....

There all get thrown into an eternal fire...does that make sense to you....For once answer it with a plain mind of someone that has never been thought anything about hellfire

Dtruthspeaker:


Interpretation: "I know no wetin to talk na but I no fit leave am like dat na"

Continue your delusion..

Image123:


Just to add to what some of the brethren have said and explained, many of us don't factor in and fathom the concept of eternity. You don't hold doctrine in isolation and neglect or disregard other beliefs, conditions and teachings in the same book. It will definitely never make sense to you. Imagine coming into the middle of a class on thermodynamics, or the middle of a session. What is happening will probably not make sense to you. Even those following from the beginning, it has not fully made sense to all of them, how much more someone with missing parts.
Man is created in the image of God. Because of this, we possess something eternal inside us. While we may die, we don't die in the real sense. We continue to exist. Spirits don't die, whether evil or good. Because they all come from God the Father of spirits. Every man has a spirit, call it a soul if that helps you understand better. You can be eternally or partially separated from God, which is the technical bible meaning of DEATH. But you are eternal and anywhere outside God is hell anyway. Nonetheless, anything not of God or meeting the God standard will be thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is an eternal place of torment. You choose to be forever with God. If you don't meet the standard and specification, you are forever outside God. This is the coming reality. Reality is what you face, whether it makes sense to you is largely immaterial. Nigeria makes no sense to millions of people but they have to face it. That's reality for you. Only a fool will not prepare after seeing and being warned of danger. There is need to ESCAPE like the Bible rightly calls the action.

You people are just as confused as your answers....your analogy too....this should make sense to us....laws of different countries makes sense to them because there are directly involved in the reward or consequences....when laws are unfavorable, they protest...Hell fire should make sense to all humans because it will be the fate of many as it is said if they sin.....

Now lets take it down a bit....if I enta your house and steal meat from your pot and you come in and stab me to death...What do you think the Government will do to you and why?

shadeyinka:

The problem of JWs is that they want to paint God as this soft old man who is so gentle that he couldn't hurt a fly. As far as they are concerned, the punishment of Rapists, Murderers, and gross wickedness is a reward with a dreamless sleep-like non-existence.
If that was a punishment it's like making prisons like a five star hotel for prisoners. Even honest citizens will not mind living in such a place.

If Shadrach Meshach and Abednigo could be in fire and not be consumed, their argument of annihilation falls to pieces.

As for atheists, they want a God who can be fitted inside their pocket. There butterfly thinks itself a bird

Man is made up of spirit of God + dust of the earth, the dust was used to form an abode or a vessel or temple for Gods spirit or breath. Both spirit and breath mean same thing . Nerphesh in hebrew. .psalm 104:29-31 says " send forth YOUR SPIRIT and they are created and replenish the earth, take it and they die and return to dust" Man is spirit (of God ) dwelling within a body fashions from the dust of the earth, what we refer to death is return to default. The spirit goes back to God and the body back to the earth.. So why would God send his spirit to hell, who will suffer ? What is the wisdom in that ?.
We are all Gods spirit experiencing life as ourselves. Different version of the same thing...

Its not difficult to understand..you are just blocking your brain in other not to accept this simple truth..

BE OPEN MINDED TO LEARN NEW THINGS. LEARN, UNLEARN AND RELEARN.

shadeyinka:

The problem of JWs is that they want to paint God as this soft old man who is so gentle that he couldn't hurt a fly. As far as they are concerned, the punishment of Rapists, Murderers, and gross wickedness is a reward with a dreamless sleep-like non-existence.
If that was a punishment it's like making prisons like a five star hotel for prisoners. Even honest citizens will not mind living in such a place.

If Shadrach Meshach and Abednigo could be in fire and not be consumed, their argument of annihilation falls to pieces.

As for atheists, they want a God who can be fitted inside their pocket. There butterfly thinks itself a bird

All because they fear, they let their desires, hopes, and dreams rule and dictate how they shall respond to their fears, in the conduct of their lives.

Thinking that by the shapening of their thoughts, they shall escape calamity in the day of calamity.

sonmvayina:


Continue your delusion..

Says an exCatholic, who says he is a god! Well madmen eating at dustbins have been seen to make fun of people going to their places of work.

Dtruthspeaker:


Says an exCatholic, who says he is a god! Well madmen eating at dustbins have been seen to make fun of people going to their places of work.

I know I am..

VillagePeople11:

You people are just as confused as your answers....your analogy too....this should make sense to us....laws of different countries makes sense to them because there are directly involved in the reward or consequences....when laws are unfavorable, they protest...Hell fire should make sense to all humans because it will be the fate of many as it is said if they sin.....

welcome to The Law:
First, you are referring to laws which are your own creation, Not The Law that created you. You can change, amend, repeal, re-enact or otherwise discard the laws you have made as a towel, for they are your creation and like your phone, cars and property, you can do whatever pleases you with it. It is not even deserving of a protest, for is it possible for you protest against your own clothes or your own shoes?

But Not So, with The Law that created you. No man can alter, amend, repeal, re-enact, remake a jot. Eg "Man shall eat flesh and herbs" No man can amend it to "man shall eat sand and wood". Same for "man Shall live on land and not in the sea as a fish" no man can reverse it.

Just as your phone and clothes is supposed to do your bidding because you are Greater than it and never did you think to concern yourself to discuss with your phone and clothes, about the Rules and Conditions of your using, so also are you supposed to do the bidding of He that is Greater than you.

In this case, you are even blessed that He has laid out His Terms and Conditions of working relationship with Him, which you did not think to make with your phone.

VillagePeople11:

Now lets take it down a bit....if I enta your house and steal meat from your pot and you come in and stab me to death...What do you think the Government will do to you and why?

this is an obvious case of the Disobedience
and Wickednesss and Stupidity of man for in the first place, No One should have cause to steal, Which God Solved but una Disobedience eh, Tufiakwaa!

So, now there is stealing. God Provided for what should happen when a person steals because of the Reasonable Ground that he is hungry.

What did your wicked brothers who you let rule you say? The laws your brothers made answers this. In one, he says "cut his hand" in another he said kill him.

Yet, all accommodate the injustice of your brothers laws which never affects him because he is greater than it, therefore, you can accept a higher Just Law which is Greater than you and your brother who previously made his own type of laws to Rule over you, if you like.

But like The Law that says "you shall eat flesh and herbs" came into force when man touched the earth, and you did not negotiate it before your arrival, so also when man departs from the earth, The Law of Sin and Lake of Fire will come into force, without any negotiation!

VillagePeople11:

You people are just as confused as your answers....your analogy too....this should make sense to us....laws of different countries makes sense to them because there are directly involved in the reward or consequences....when laws are unfavorable, they protest...Hell fire should make sense to all humans because it will be the fate of many as it is said if they sin.....

Now lets take it down a bit....if I enta your house and steal meat from your pot and you come in and stab me to death...What do you think the Government will do to you and why?

Said by who ? Your quote should be preceded by "Thus says the Lord......"

sonmvayina:


Man is made up of spirit of God + dust of the earth, the dust was used to form an abode or a vessel or temple for Gods spirit or breath. Both spirit and breath mean same thing . Nerphesh in hebrew. .psalm 104:29-31 says " send forth YOUR SPIRIT and they are created and replenish the earth, take it and they die and return to dust" Man is spirit (of God ) dwelling within a body fashions from the dust of the earth, what we refer to death is return to default. The spirit goes back to God and the body back to the earth.. So why would God send his spirit to hell, who will suffer ? What is the wisdom in that ?.
We are all Gods spirit experiencing life as ourselves. Different version of the same thing...

Its not difficult to understand..you are just blocking your brain in other not to accept this simple truth..

BE OPEN MINDED TO LEARN NEW THINGS. LEARN, UNLEARN AND RELEARN.

Your cherry-picking sometimes is mind boggling. You'll many times use the Old Testament on the New without considering the context and you forget that a single word may have several different meaning depending on its context. but this is not even the issue for now.
Inn the OT isn't the soul and spirit sometimes used interchangeably?

1. From your argument, if God should punish satan and the other fallen angels, He is punishing Himself? (aren't angels also spirits?)
2. If man is made from the spirit of God, what then is the difference between the the spirit of God and us (For God is a Spirit)
3. Spirit and breath means the same thing?
Breath=the air taken into or expelled from the lungs or an inhalation or exhalation of air from the lungs
Spirit=a being without a physical body or the non-physical part of a person that makes him spiritual

I pity your misconception!

sonmvayina:


I know I am..

a madman too has a right to be mad and I respect it,. Biko, rapu mu'aka.

VillagePeople11:


The more you try to explain Hell in complication makes me realize that you all know it is all bullsh!t....this is very simple..... A group of sinners with different level of sin live and die at various ages....

There all get thrown into an eternal fire...does that make sense to you....For once answer it with a plain mind of someone that has never been thought anything about hellfire

What an ignorant conclusion.

Who told you that hell is a blanket judgement for sinners. Everyone gets rewarded even in hell ACCORDING to what they have DONE!