Olu317:
You see, most of our people ,who are lettered based most of their hypothesis on assumption , and when they see some glaring facts, they tend to turn away their eyes from it.

Orumile may actually be Urimm....This is because, urim stand for truth and Justice in EFOD/EPHOD/AFA/ IFA.
I discovered something extraordinary when I saw the name the Arab imitators called geomancy of Ancient –Hebrew/Yoruba IFA . Instead ,the Arab call it their own version, in which the divination is known KHATT AL RAML and DARB AL RAML ( Science of SAND or Earth) which wasnt called the same name as Yoruba's or Hebrew's or North Africa's enclave even when it was first practiced in North Africa.

I am tempted to believed with evidence before me that the Yorubas were the ones that took that Knowledge of divination to North Africa, because Yorubas had at one time or the other also lived in North Africa considering, the similarity with names of Oracular form divination and not Arabs didn't use such name to identify with sand divination.

Why do I believed Yoruba were the ones that took the knowledge to North Africa? This is evident in Yoruba patterns of ancient structure, water system, drums etc ,when they arrived in Yoruba land of today where they met NOK culture and pushed it away.

According to Leo Frobenius 1968:186–204) he discovered, the cultural practices amongst North Africans which were similar to Yorubas . Infact ,this great scholar mentioned that the Yoruba and the Atlantic culture share the following:

• Water storage construction systems. He emphasised that the style of houses constructed by the Yorubas was similar to those used by the Etruscans, Moroccans and Algerians whereby the Impluvium is built in the centre of the house whilst apartments with verandas are built in a rectangular form.

• The construction of their houses. Yorubas construct houses with ridge roofs that are similar to those in North Africa.

• The colour and form of bows and arrows used by the Yorubas are similar to those in Morocco.
• The North African hand loom, unknown in the Sudan, is found amongst Yoruba woman.

• The drum shape and other articles peculiar to North Africa are not found in the Sudan, but are found in Yorubland.

• The existence of the ‘Templum ’, amongst both the Yorubas and North Africans whereby houses are built round a temple or sacred building; even in towns, houses were generally built around sacred buildings.

Leo Fronbenius nailed the presence of Yoruba in North Sfrica but didn't realized at time because the knowledge of geomancy wasnt used as well nor did some few Yoruba critics that didnt realize that Yoruba lived in North Africa at one time or the other.
Recent studies has also shown that ancient Egyptians language has Link with Yoruba's. Apart from Olumide Lucas, Theophilè Obenga has also shown the evidence of shared words with ancient Egypt.
. Do you know the Ancient Hebrew pictorial Alphabets and ancient meaning were the Yoruba's after being interpreted by Western interpreters of the pictorial alphabets?
Let me hint you. The ancient Hebrew alphabet found denoted different signs. And guess what? over 60% of these words has its root in Yoruba's or vice versa. Let me share one with all of us.

Picture: Ox
Associations: All, elk, elephant
Sound: a (ah), e (eh)
Ancient Name: al or el
Modern Name: aleph
Modern Form: א
Meaning: strong, power, leader

Similaritiy
Yoruba
Sound : a(ah)
Meaning : Alè/ lè = strong/powerful/
Alagbara–/ Al– agbara= powerful/ strong

Example 1(statement) : Ègùngùn é lè (His bone is strong/ He has a strong bone)
Example 2( simile): Alè bì Ajèrè: (strong like/as Ajèrè)

It is disheartening seeing some people that claimed Yoruba's language's knowledge yet with no knowledge of the yoruba and the world beyond them.


Yes, I have that stuff in my archive.

Thanks.

Baba, please in which of Frobenius’ work did he draw similarities between Yoruba & North Africans.

The little I know from reading two of his journals on Africa back to back - one of Mali/Timbuktu area & one of Yoruba from the coast to Ife.

The comparison he drew was between Yoruba & Atlantis of Greece. His comparisons ranged from art to lifestyle such as ceremonies & burial system [Etruscans]. His comparison was set off when he set his eyes and hands on the Olokun head.

Please educate us by providiving a citation of his work where he compared Yoruba to North Africa. I’ve read his two journals well enough to know he did not make such claims in them. If there are other works he did containing the information you provided above, please share.


Cheers.

Addendum: I see this is your source: https://hts.org.za/index.php/hts/rt/printerFriendly/1919/3631

Have you ever read Frobenius’s journal cited in that work’s bibliography? Well, I have and Uncle Frobenius did not link Yoruba with NAfrica. Rather, he was persistent on giving Greek/European origins to the works of Yoruba people. The only time he mentioned North Africa & Yoruba in a sentence was when he stated that he met Yoruba immigrants in as far as Mali during his previous expedition who told him so much about Ile-Ife where deities sunk into the grounds.

0balufonlll:




Baba, please in which of Frobenius’ work did he draw similarities between Yoruba & North Africans.

The little I know from reading two of his journals on Africa back to back - one of Mali/Timbuktu area & one of Yoruba from the coast to Ife.

The comparison he drew was between Yoruba & Atlantis of Greece. His comparisons ranged from art to lifestyle such as ceremonies & burial system [Etruscans]. His comparison was set off when he set his eyes and hands on the Olokun head.

Please educate us by providiving a citation of his work where he compared Yoruba to North Africa. I’ve read his two journals well enough to know he did not make such claims in them. If there are other works he did containing the information you provided above, please share.


Cheers.

Addendum: I see this is your source: https://hts.org.za/index.php/hts/rt/printerFriendly/1919/3631

Have you ever read Frobenius’s journal cited in that work’s bibliography? Well, I have and Uncle Frobenius did not link Yoruba with NAfrica. Rather, he was persistent on giving Greek/European origins to the works of Yoruba people. The only time he mentioned North Africa & Yoruba in a sentence was when he stated that he met Yoruba immigrants in as far as Mali during his previous expedition who told him so much about Ile-Ife where deities sunk into the grounds.

Yes he did dear brother . He saw Etruscans culture from his perspective and he was so convinced about it, until he discovered similarities between Yorubas and North Africa (Frobenius 1968:186–204). Frobenius says that the Yoruba and the Atlantic culture share:

1. Water storage construction systems,which were found in Morocco and Algeria

2. The construction of their houses were similar

3. The colour and form of bows and arrows used by the Yorubas are similar to those in Morocco.

4. The North African hand loom, unknown in the Sudan, is found amongst Yoruba woman.

5. The existence of the ‘Templum ’, amongst both the Yorubas and North Africans whereby houses are built round a temple or sacred building; even in towns, houses were generally built around sacred buildings. Frobenius thinks that even the religion of Ile Ife is based on the ‘Templum ’ idea (Frobenius 1968:336).


Cheers.

0balufonlll:


Loool, OK.

I do not want to be drawn into a long winded back & forths with you and Uncle Metaphysics so we do not interrupt the goal this thread is set towards. My contribution was not to disrupt but to tap Olaochi on the shoulders only.

I’ll say that the problem with your thesis is that you think Ifa began with Orunmila & includes Iyerosun which provides the basis for similarity with Arab sand pressing.

Ifa encompasses several elements of divination that preceeded Orunmila/Ikin/Opele. Ifa is an embodiment of everything. Orunmila only took the ‘glory’ because he was Oduduwa’s Chief diviner when he coerced everything under his ‘monarchy’. All those we regard as deities used kolanuts, coconut shells at first; Obatala introduced erindinlogun which had all Odus from Ejiogbe down to the 256th that Osun also adopted. All of these were before Orunmila came into the picture and co-opted everything; the methodologies, the stories & so on into his own style.

Also, all cultures that developed to a certain degree had their methods of divination. Look at the early history of peoples & their cultures, you’ll see how local religion/divination developed from trying to communicate with their god. So I’ll say all cultures developed theirs independently but accidental similarities occurred and that is where it stopped.

- Please note that Arab use/d 16 & Yoruba use 256. Do not for a second think we use 16 Odus, we do not. We use 256. In fact, the first 16 are only popular because they are first lessons for a neophyte awo. When a person divinates, these 16 Odu rarely surfaces, you rather find the ‘amulu’ propping up with ease. The 16 odu popular in Yoruba are just there to prepare freshers for the proper divination struggle that lies ahead in the remaining 240 Odus. Restricting Yoruba Odu to 16 is misinformation.

- Also does the Arab divination carry stories with them to explain a message? No.

- Have you also looked at the methods used by both to interpreting a message that may crop of from the divination to have concluded?

- Also, if, according to researchers, Biblical stories (which Quran plagiarized from including Idris Enoch) were about 5,000/6,000 years ago and Yoruba had artifacts dated to very far older dates. Then why wasn’t it Yoruba who influenced Arab geomancy? Why is it Arab influecing Yoruba divination for you? Is this a display of cultural inferiority on your path/part?

- Yoruba contact with Arab was not until say between 17th-19th century. At least Clapperton recorded their presence in Oyo ile where they preached but where murdered later. He also mentioned that the Arabs were all over palace courts in the North. They played the role of magicians & diviners for emirs & for Dan fodio & his son that succeeded him. These Arabs went to wars with Jihadists to perform magic in as far as present day middle belt of Naija. What if it was this period little bit of Arab sand divination sneaked into Yoruba divination?

- An extensive study on Yoruba religion vis a vis foreign religion of Islam/Christianity would have shown you that when Iwo & Ilorin became Islam HQ in Yorubaland, Arab sand system & Yoruba divination stood side by side. While Yoruba alfas learnt sand divinations, they tried to co-opt Ifa in order to blend it in but the differences in the two made it quite impossible. Consequently, it became a trend across Yorubaland at some point for Alfa to divinate for clients using sand or Ifa. This is an evidence of the separate emergence of the two & the difference in the core of both thereby making it difficult to be blended.

- There are more questions, arguments & pointers but like I said, I do not want to get pulled into this. I’ll round up by asking you to please provide a source for the article you posted so we can see if it was written by someone who studied the entirety of Ifa in & out before making such claims.

Honestly, I would have shared more but because of the other Yorubas,who aren't conversant with written and spoken Yoruba language are the reason I won't share certain information in my care with the public . Obviously, they are filled with bitterness and foul words . My intense research is the reason I only want to expose certain information to us to be criticized and verified but these other people have nothing to contribute but to steal one's idea and may eventually put into publishing , so I won't share beyond limit. If it is about IFA corpus, am sure you know stuff about it. And you can get some information from, Abraham ibn Ezra's manuscript books copy from Cambridge, University Library, MS Add. 1195 (fifteenth-sixteenth centuries, Sephardic scripts); Florence, Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana, MS Plut. 88.58 (fifteenth-sixteenth centuries, Sephardic-Italian); and St. Petersburg, Russian National Library, MS Yevr. I 262 (fourteenth-fifteenth centuries, Sephardic script). The works contained in the present manuscript are apparently entirely unpublished.

Olu317:
You see, most of our people ,who are lettered based most of their hypothesis on assumption , and when they see some glaring facts, they tend to turn away their eyes from it.

I am tempted to believed with evidence before me that the Yorubas were the ones that took that Knowledge of divination to North Africa, because Yorubas had at one time or the other also lived in North Africa considering, the similarity with names of Oracular form divination and not Arabs didn't use such name to identify with sand divination.

Why do I believed Yoruba were the ones that took the knowledge to North Africa? This is evident in Yoruba patterns of ancient structure, water system, drums etc ,when they arrived in Yoruba land of today where they met NOK culture and pushed it away.



Picture: Ox
Associations: All, elk, elephant
Sound: a (ah), e (eh)
Ancient Name: al or el
Modern Name: aleph
Modern Form: א
Meaning: strong, power, leader

Similaritiy
Yoruba
Sound : a(ah)
Meaning : Alè/ lè = strong/powerful/
Alagbara–/ Al– agbara= powerful/ strong

Example 1(statement) : Ègùngùn é lè (His bone is strong/ He has a strong bone)
Example 2( simile): Alè bì Ajèrè: (strong like/as Ajèrè)

It is disheartening seeing some people that claimed Yoruba's language's knowledge yet with no knowledge of the yoruba and the world beyond them.


Thanks.

Thanks Olu.

1 - I always maintain that culturally Yoruba does not have a religion. What we have and synonymous with Yoruba is spirituality. Religion, of any form, were brought into us by foreigners and we adopted and Yorubanized them. If we had a religion it would not have been possible for Islam or Christianity to take foothold without a war and bloodshed, but we have no record of religious war in Yoruba history...Thank God, and may it continue to be the case, Ase Edumare!

2 - The two identifiable forms of divination in Yorubaland are IFA and Al Raml, they are similar, but not same and will never be same.
In any form, religious divination is esoteric. Notice I said religious and not spiritual. The esoteric angle of Judaism is Kaballah and the esoteric Islam is Sufi.

I studied Sufism and I'm initiated into Sufism. In fact my initiation was conducted by the direct descendant and head of of the Silsila (genealogy) of my Sufi Order. A very rare privilege! Initiations are often conducted by guides and teachers, not the seed of the genealogy. This was possible because my guides found me far advanced in the principles that he at first thought I lied when I said I have never been a Sufi, and he wondered how I came about the knowledge in my spirit. There are so many rites in Sufism that's a cross between Yoruba belief system and Kaballah. I don't want to describe too much of it but there is a ritual that opens the spirit and it is the rite of the crossroads. This is where the Trinity and Cross of Christianity came from. In Yoruba this is the rite of Esu.

When it comes to religious divination or religious esoterism their mother is Kaballah, where Urim and Thummim came from. In Kaballah there 400 deities, 200 ascending, 200 descending. In order to hide its roots and not invite too much probing they gave it a name and call it Jacob's ladder! In truth, this is the 401 gods of IleIfe. 200 up, 200 down, plus Ooni Adimula. Up you have Orunmila, down you have Irunmole.

While Kaballah is the mother of all divinations in religious esoterism, IFA is the father of all divination in the universe, religious or not. IFA is the seed out of which every other divination principle emerged and spread. Out of IFA certain philosophies were shaped into DOCTRINES and it is with these doctrines that civilizations were established and propagated.




On Yoruba spoken words....SOUND is the character and attitude of Yoruba language. Parrot can make intelligible sounds that is interpretable, because it emits sound. Drums utter sounds that produce words and speak to us with information. Without SOUNDS Yoruba language and tongue has no character and is open to misinterpretation and mis-classification.

Olu317:

Yes he did dear brother . He saw Etruscans culture from his perspective and he was so convinced about it, until he discovered similarities between Yorubas and North Africa (Frobenius 1968:186–204). Frobenius says that the Yoruba and the Atlantic culture share:

1. Water storage construction systems,which were found in Morocco and Algeria

2. The construction of their houses were similar

3. The colour and form of bows and arrows used by the Yorubas are similar to those in Morocco.

4. The North African hand loom, unknown in the Sudan, is found amongst Yoruba woman.

5. The existence of the ‘Templum ’, amongst both the Yorubas and North Africans whereby houses are built round a temple or sacred building; even in towns, houses were generally built around sacred buildings. Frobenius thinks that even the religion of Ile Ife is based on the ‘Templum ’ idea (Frobenius 1968:336).


Cheers.

Baba, I was wondering if you read this book page to page or relied solely on the other man’s interpretations. The latter seems to be the case.

The screenshots below from pages 333 to 336 runs parallel to your argument. While you are pushing a narrative of Frobenius’ discovery of similarities in Yoruba & North African culture, Frobenius in his own words was drawing a different which he furthered by saying, similarities here and there does not indicate trans-continental connections and rather, Illifians in his own word, were Europeans.

Going further, he said Arab divination was different from those of North African cultures. While NA communities used 16, Arab/Islam used lesser or greater. He distinguished difference between North African sand divination as indigenous from Arab/Islam sand divination.

I’ll let you read the pages yourself.

Olu317:
Honestly, I would have shared more but because of the other Yorubas,who aren't conversant with written and spoken Yoruba language are the reason I won't share certain information in my care with the public . Obviously, they are filled with bitterness and foul words . My intense research is the reason I only want to expose certain information to us to be criticized and verified but these other people have nothing to contribute but to steal one's idea and may eventually put into publishing , so I won't share beyond limit. If it is about IFA corpus, am sure you know stuff about it. And you can get some information from, Abraham ibn Ezra's manuscript books copy from Cambridge, University Library, MS Add. 1195 (fifteenth-sixteenth centuries, Sephardic scripts); Florence, Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana, MS Plut. 88.58 (fifteenth-sixteenth centuries, Sephardic-Italian); and St. Petersburg, Russian National Library, MS Yevr. I 262 (fourteenth-fifteenth centuries, Sephardic script). The works contained in the present manuscript are apparently entirely unpublished.

Baba, these are the names you actually rely on for comparative study on Ifa?

I admire your zeal & effort put into research. I know however that no matter the data you drop, the folks online may never be able to lay hands on your sources or have the wisdowm & patience you have in piecing everything together and so on.

I look forward to hearing about the completion of your work and laying my hands/eyes on an eventual publication by you. Keep in mind, however, that you will be seriously subjected to scrutiny and your credibility to make such claims will be dug into a la Oba Bini & his book.

Nonetheless, all the best with the theory.

0balufonlll:


1. It is a fact. There is Odu Imole; Odu Christian & Odu of Atlantic Slave trade. My theory is, they were later added to the parts of Ifa considering their positions towards the end of Odu arrangements.

2. I’m not sure I get this question.

3. I do not know what your contextual usage of the terminology ‘Ifa’ is. But my usage of it in the post you quoted in connection to ‘stages & collapsed’ referred to the fact that agbigba, erindinlogun, ikin, opele etc have different methodologies & processes yet they are all regarded as ‘Ifa’. Ifa is not restricted to Orunmila’s Ikin & the latter introduction of Opele, Ifa is all local divination system exclusive of abamoda related divinations.

Obalufon,
You have vast knowledge! The purpose here whether on this thread or any other dealing on subject of Yoruba is to bring out and share knowledge on the quest to learn and be enlightened. I wish you will ignore the side distractions, the offensive jabs and contribute in truth to the objective of Yoruba superiority, particularly in this age where threads are visible across the globe and you never know who will gain from what you share or how it might bring a breakthrough in their own quest.


Going from your response,
1a - So these arrangements that added the new Odus would have happened to accommodate new experiences that coincided with Islam, Slave Trade, Christianity in the socio-political space of Yorubaland. How are these determinations made on what is a significant marker to add and what to exclude in their relevance to divination and IFA spirituality? Unless they serve historical purpose, I dont see the spiritual relevance of adding an Odu for Islam or Christianity but I do understand how that of human migration as happened in case of slavery would be a siginifacnt factor for both divination and historical. This is not my wisdom, I defer to the wise ones and the ancestors who made these decisions, I'm only curious.

1b - My thoughts are that these additions are markers for incidences in Arabia in the last days of
departure, and are not any recent additions to accommodate occurrences in West African space. There was a clash of civilization with Christianity, with Islam, and enslavement and migration. The Odus are footprints for events in Afroasia, not in West Africa.



2 and 3 are overlaps and you answered it.
The protocol of divination itself is standard and remains sacred but the tools for casting differ. The different methods is what we are seeing in the example with Alraml using sand or Madgascar where its called Sikidy. Origin of IFA is in Afroasia and began with Noah, which preceded the Abrahamic religions. As the practice passes from generation to generation the sacredness remains the same and central but the formalities morphed. IFA itself is the backbone of sovereingty and civilizations and we can only change the tools and means but we will not succeed in shutting out IFA, impossible because it is the essence of Cosmos we live in and the secret of Sovereignties that govern the world order. The Urim of Kaballah, the Alraml of Islam are Orunmila of IFA. Im sure you have seen where muslims write this after mentioning Allah...(swt). The Taala of Judaism is the Wa Ta'ala of Islam (written swt but means Subhana Wa Taala)...and is the Tala that is used in Obatala in Yoruba.

I have listened to people say what is common in our language and Arab is borrowings that filtered in through Islam and in traction from the Muslims to our North, particulalry from Hausaland. For that reason I went and lived four years in Hausaland and immersed myself in the culture. Yoruba donated to Islam, not the other way around, but Yoruba could not have influenced Arab in the way it did unless both were at one point collocator in same region and same culture. The presence of Arab traders in Oyo and elsewhere in Yorubaland is nopt signioficant to the scale of cultural and language contact that I mean here.

There is no denying the presence of Yoruba civilization in Afroasia. For me, the quest is where these Yorubas originated from, is it in the IleIfe of WesrtAfrica or the Nineveh of Afroasia?



If this appear disointed Im writing and doing other things, and its why it took long to complete . I can clarify any points thats not clear.

Obalufon,
I read the screenshots you posted on Frobenius journal. You keep saying he did not ascribe similarity or any transcontinental contact between Yoruba and North Africa. He did not have to. His audience can make up their own conclusions based on all the artifacts and evidences of shared antiquities that his research uprooted and tabled before us. Remember that his initial discovery in Ife were accidental. So his discoveries were not total, not even after a return trip.

Beside, his own native land of Germany were at this point in its political history competing with other Europeans for superiority and dominance of world order, there is no way Frobenius could have attributed Yoruba as the civilization that seeded Europe. They were comfortable accepting Arabized Arab as contributors to their civilization but the thought of Europe acquiring knowledge from a Negro people would be unthinkable, no matter how much discovery to say Babylon was in IleIfe.

In fact, the articles Olu and I posted yesterday pointing to Idris and sand divination contained similar sentiments. European scholars admit geomancy came from Arabs and Hebrews but went on to also say it trickled down to Yoruba's IFA. They did not care to understand what IFA is and to accept, even if they studied and understood it, that their geomancy was birthed by Alraml, which itself was birthed by Kaballah, and which was seeded by IFA.

Let's dig into our own history truthfuly and not introduce Eurocentric and Arab-centric biases and stereotypes to dismiss cogent and valid points for introducing deeper knowledge.

MetaPhysical:
Obalufon,
I read the screenshots you posted on Frobenius journal. You keep saying he did not ascribe similarity or any transcontinental contact between Yoruba and North Africa. He did not have to. His audience can make up their own conclusions based on all the artifacts and evidences of shared antiquities that his research uprooted and tabled before us. Remember that his initial discovery in Ife were accidental. So his discoveries were not total, not even after a return trip.

Beside, his own native land of Germany were at this point in its political history competing with other Europeans for superiority and dominance of world order, there is no way Frobenius could have attributed Yoruba as the civilization that seeded Europe. They were comfortable accepting Arabized Arab as contributors to their civilization but the thought of Europe acquiring knowledge from a Negro people would be unthinkable, no matter how much discovery to say Babylon was in IleIfe.

In fact, the articles Olu and I posted yesterday pointing to Idris and sand divination contained similar sentiments. European scholars admit geomancy came from Arabs and Hebrews but went on to also say it trickled down to Yoruba's IFA. They did not care to understand what IFA is and to accept, even if they studied and understood it, that their geomancy was birthed by Alraml, which itself was birthed by Kaballah, and which was seeded by IFA.

Let's dig into our own history truthfuly and not introduce Eurocentric and Arab-centric biases and stereotypes to dismiss cogent and valid points for introducing deeper knowledge.

Leo did mentioned it . The reason it became a bit confusing to some people was because, after the death of Leo Fronebius in 1937, his work were later published by the institution he taught, in Germany. The man did extensive work on African ethnography. In fact,his assumption that some white men came back to influence the African culture through migration back to Africa has been proven right . In a statement credited to him “Frobenius surmised that a white civilization must have existed in Africa prior to the arrival of the European colonisers , and that it was this "white residue" that enabled native Africans to exhibit traits of "military power, political leadership and... monumental architecture." DNA has Shown this to be true. Archeology has shown this to be true. In fact, different people migrated back to Africa because of one reason or the other. The two mostly acknowledged reasons are war( conquest) and greener pasture.

0balufonlll:


Baba, these are the names you actually rely on for comparative study on Ifa?

I admire your zeal & effort put into research. I know however that no matter the data you drop, the folks online may never be able to lay hands on your sources or have the wisdowm & patience you have in piecing everything together and so on.

I look forward to hearing about the completion of your work and laying my hands/eyes on an eventual publication by you. Keep in mind, however, that you will be seriously subjected to scrutiny and your credibility to make such claims will be dug into a la Oba Bini & his book.

Nonetheless, all the best with the theory.

You dont seem to get it or you didnt read my message very well. I was thinking, you asked for some outstanding work that one can lay one's hand for perusal. I never at any time mentioned that these people studied IFA but made information relevant as it regard, what they learned from divination from Arabs and study put into it, which point to the direction, where Geomancy originated from ; Arabia axis.

Now , see these and critically look into these Ancient Hebrew alphabet and it meaning. Compare and contrast with ancient Yoruba so as to it as either a continuum or not,after research showed Hebrew language died over 3000–4000 years ago. Yet these words survived amongst Yorubas. The Hebrew pictographs showed, the alphabet are 23 letters with signs . And interpretation has been made by western researchers to understand, what each sign mean. I have given about 40% similarities with ancient Hebrew's letters. Mind you,it is not about obsession to Hebrew or Arabs but to showcase the point that,from all ramification, Yoruba had lived in Arabia peninsula in the ancient time . My question to you is that; Did the real Yoruba language's similarities and same meaning with the Hebrew word below coincidental ?


1. Picture: Sun
Associations: Come
Sound: q
Ancient Name: Quph
Modern Name: Quph
Modern Form: ק
Meaning: Condense, Circle, Time

Yoruba sound= k
Meaning = Asikó
English= Time


2. Picture: Peg
Associations: Wave
Sound: w, ow, uw
Ancient Name: Waw
Modern Name: Vav
Modern Form: ו
Meaning: Add, Secure, Hook

Yoruba sound = aw
Meaning Awón
English= Hook


3. Picture: Trail
Associations: Trail
Sound: ts
Ancient Name: Tsade
Modern Name: Tsade
Modern Form: ץ צ
Meaning: Trail, Journey, chase, hunt

Yoruba sound: Sh
Meaning: shódé/Jadè
English : hunt/go out on a journey


4. Picture: Eye
Associations: Eye
Sound: i
Ancient Name: Ayin
Modern Name: Ayin
Modern Form: ע
Meaning: See, Watch, Know, Shade

Yoruba sound: e (i)
Meaning : Éyinju/,Éyinoju
English: Eyeball



5. Picture: Water
Associations: M
Sound: m
Ancient Name: Mem
Modern Name: Mem
Modern Form: ם מ
Meaning: Water, Chaos, Mighty, Blood

Yoruba sound: M
Meaning : Omi
English : Water


6. Picture: Palm
Associations: Cup
Sound: k
Ancient Name: Kaph
Modern Name: Kaph
Modern Form: ך כ
Meaning: Bend, Open, Allow, Tame

Yoruba sound: k-ah
Meaning Káa
English : Bend/ Tame



7. Picture: Tent
Associations: Bed
Sound: b, bh (v)
Ancient Name: Beyt
Modern Name: Beyt
Modern Form: ב
Meaning: Family, House, In

Yoruba sound: B
Meaning: Éb-e(i)
English: Family


8 . Picture :Basket
Associations: Tote
Sound: t
Ancient Name: Tet
Modern Name: Tet
Modern Form: ט
Meaning: Surround, Contain, Mud

Yoruba sound : t
Meaning té(réré)
Meaning : surround/spread/cover round



Cheers

0balufonlll:


Baba, I was wondering if you read this book page to page or relied solely on the other man’s interpretations. The latter seems to be the case.

The screenshots below from pages 333 to 336 runs parallel to your argument. While you are pushing a narrative of Frobenius’ discovery of similarities in Yoruba & North African culture, Frobenius in his own words was drawing a different which he furthered by saying, similarities here and there does not indicate trans-continental connections and rather, Illifians in his own word, were Europeans.

Going further, he said Arab divination was different from those of North African cultures. While NA communities used 16, Arab/Islam used lesser or greater. He distinguished difference between North African sand divination as indigenous from Arab/Islam sand divination.

I’ll let you read the pages yourself.

I have and the point is that Leo's unpublished work during his life were published many years after his death. This journal did not say much as regard Atlas Africanus, etc. Below are the works of Professor Leo Frobenuis


Frobenius, Leo, 1873-1938.

Ethnology -- Africa.

Originally published: Leo Frobenius, 1873-1973 : an anthology. Wiesbaden : F. Steiner, 1973.
Essays translated from the German by Patricia Crampton.
Includes bibliographical references (p. 231-233)
English

Libraries Australia

Contents Foreword /​ by Léopold Sédar Senghor
The "Atlas Africanus"

Discussion of the method of cultural history
On the morphological method of studying cultures

The nature of culture

Reflections on African art

Rock art of the Saharan Atlas

Rock art of the Fezzan

Rock art of South Africa

African hunters: the Mahalbi culture

African hunters: bushmen and hunting spirits

The civilization of the Kabyls

Tales from the Sudan

The religion of the Yoruba

Zimbabwe and the Wahungwe civilization.

Obalufon, even ya own name sef is the name of an ancient priest of Arabia.

Yoruba have priest-kings. The Oba in their title is the priestly line. The throne title is unique and this is their king or sovereign or military line.

Like
Ooni, Oba followed by name
Alaafin, Oba followed by name
Alake, Oba followed by name
Awujale, Oba followed by name
Deji, Oba followed by name

So Obalufon, this name you adopt, came from Yoruba priests once lived in Arabia.

At one point Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Mesopotamia, all used to be seat of world power.

To the South and West you had AfroAsia. To the North and East you have Eurosia.

From that epicenter some drifters went North and some came South.

Yoruba was one of those that came South. The seat of the Yoruba power settled amongst the aborigines of Ugboland, which they the settlers renamed Ile Ife. The Ugbo language does not have Il in its lexicon.

Il which is prefix in Ila (branch), Ile (house), Ile (ground), Ilo(down), Ilo (passage), Ilu (town). The merging concept here is space in relation to earth. We can therefore assign a weight or code to any vowelized sound that carries "Il" as a prefix. There are many prefix sounds in Yoruba that carries a concept of phenomenal meaning or weight.
Abi is another one. Abike, Abidemi, Abiodun, Abiola.... Here too any Abi prefix should be assign a weight or code. How about Al? Alamu, Alabi, Alake....give Al its own weight.

At the end you will find that we have attributes that can be invoked for special utilities and progression.

The prefixes were crypted letters that ancestors used in their previous abode in Afroasia. Go look in semitic names they are filled with it. This is why it seems Arabic names are Yorubanized. Hell no,....Yoruba names returned to its original owners. Ilmi, Illah, AIimi, Alawiy (Alawiye in Yoruba), Alamin, Abu, Absalom, Abil....


Going back to IleIfe the Il connotes "space related with earth", used here for the settlement of Ife.

Do you ever wonder why the word in English language to conceptualize existence and survival is a cognate of IFE?
Life, Love.


So what really is Obalufon?

We now what Oba is, a denotion for priest. Where did this Ufon come from?

Yoruba is synonymous with burnt offering. The first priest to erect an altar for burnt offering was Noah. We are modeling the character of this righteous ancestor of Yorubas when we say Omoluabi, Omonuabi.

Ever since Noah the descendants began building Temples and in these sacred and holy grounds they will place an altar for burnt offering. No one is allowed to come into the sanctum in state of impurity. All must cleanse at the entrance to the Temple. The cleansing itself was observed as an act of worship. The objects of worship were crafted specially by a priest. Do you hear me? The basins and urns used for cleansing before access in the Temple were under dedication to a priest of lefon. These objects were the brass levon at entrance and some in the temple itself for burning incense because incense was also part of purification and cleansing.

The priest of lefon. Obalefon or Obalifon is what became Obalufon.

This cleansing is till done till today before entering temple. Muslims do the ablution and it came from Obalufon.

This why Obalufon is the priest of brass/bronze.


Any questions?


Hey meta, Alaye mi, what you think?

BabaRamota1980:
Obalufon, even ya own name sef is the name of an ancient priest of Arabia.

Yoruba have priest-kings. The Oba in their title is the priestly line. The throne title is unique and this is their king or sovereign or military line.

Like
Ooni, Oba followed by name
Alaafin, Oba followed by name
Alake, Oba followed by name
Awujale, Oba followed by name
Deji, Oba followed by name

So Obalufon, this name you adopt, came from Yoruba priests once lived in Arabia.

At one point Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Mesopotamia, all used to be seat of world power.

To the South and West you had AfroAsia. To the North and East you have Eurosia.

From that epicenter some drifters went North and some came South.

Yoruba was one of those that came South. The seat of the Yoruba power settled amongst the aborigines of Ugboland, which they the settlers renamed Ile Ife. The Ugbo language does not have Il in its lexicon.

Il which is prefix in Ila (branch), Ile (house), Ile (ground), Ilo(down), Ilo (passage), Ilu (town). The merging concept here is space in relation to earth. We can therefore assign a weight or code to any vowelized sound that carries "Il" as a prefix. There are many prefix sounds in Yoruba that carries a concept of phenomenal meaning or weight.
Abi is another one. Abike, Abidemi, Abiodun, Abiola.... Here too any Abi prefix should be assign a weight or code. How about Al? Alamu, Alabi, Alake....give Al its own weight.

At the end you will find that we have attributes that can be invoked for special utilities and progression.

The prefixes were crypted letters that ancestors used in their previous abode in Afroasia. Go look in semitic names they are filled with it. This is why it seems Arabic names are Yorubanized. Hell no,....Yoruba names returned to its original owners. Ilmi, Illah, AIimi, Alawiy (Alawiye in Yoruba), Alamin, Abu, Absalom, Abil....


Going back to IleIfe the Il connotes "space related with earth", used here for the settlement of Ife.

Do you ever wonder why the word in English language to conceptualize existence and survival is a cognate of IFE?
Life, Love.


So what really is Obalufon?

We now what Oba is, a denotion for priest. Where did this Ufon come from?

Yoruba is synonymous with burnt offering. The first priest to erect an altar for burnt offering was Noah. We are modeling the character of this righteous ancestor of Yorubas when we say Omoluabi, Omonuabi.

Ever since Noah the descendants began building Temples and in these sacred and holy grounds they will place an altar for burnt offering. No one is allowed to come into the sanctum in state of impurity. All must cleanse at the entrance to the Temple. The cleansing itself was observed as an act of worship. The objects of worship were crafted specially by a priest. Do you hear me? The basins and urns used for cleansing before access in the Temple were under dedication to a priest of lefon. These objects were the brass levon at entrance and some in the temple itself for burning incense because incense was also part of purification and cleansing.

The priest of lefon. Obalefon or Obalifon is what became Obalufon.

This cleansing is till done till today before entering temple. Muslims do the ablution and it came from Obalufon.

This why Obalufon is the priest of brass/bronze.


Any questions?


Hey meta, Alaye mi, what you think?

nice weed you are smoking there. funniest post yet

OlaoChi:
nice weed you are smoking there. funniest post yet

Let him come here and deny it. I will blow his mind why this IleIfe and Nineveh are sister cities.

Hey Olaochi do you know why Yoruba say Irin but Oyinbo say Iron?
Where did they get the idea to copy Yoruba? Our ancestors were great but no classroom will teach some of these secrets or glorify and credit their originality. Thats why im here to correct it.

BabaRamota1980:



Let him come here and deny it. I will blow his mind why this IleIfe and Nineveh are sister cities.

Hey Olaochi do you know why Yoruba say Irin but Oyinbo say Iron?
Where did they get the idea to copy Yoruba? Our ancestors were great but no classroom will teach some of these secrets or glorify and credit their originality. Thats why im here to correct it.

Its a pity you don't have a single evidence to back a single claim

OlaoChi:


Its a pity you don't have a single evidence to back a single claim

What will serve as evidence to show that the Yoruba Irin is same as English Iron and that it was copied from Yoruba?

BabaRamota1980:
Obalufon, even ya own name sef is the name of an ancient priest of Arabia.

Yoruba have priest-kings. The Oba in their title is the priestly line. The throne title is unique and this is their king or sovereign or military line.

Like
Ooni, Oba followed by name
Alaafin, Oba followed by name
Alake, Oba followed by name
Awujale, Oba followed by name
Deji, Oba followed by name

So Obalufon, this name you adopt, came from Yoruba priests once lived in Arabia.

At one point Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Mesopotamia, all used to be seat of world power.

To the South and West you had AfroAsia. To the North and East you have Eurosia.

From that epicenter some drifters went North and some came South.

Yoruba was one of those that came South. The seat of the Yoruba power settled amongst the aborigines of Ugboland, which they the settlers renamed Ile Ife. The Ugbo language does not have Il in its lexicon.

Il which is prefix in Ila (branch), Ile (house), Ile (ground), Ilo(down), Ilo (passage), Ilu (town). The merging concept here is space in relation to earth. We can therefore assign a weight or code to any vowelized sound that carries "Il" as a prefix. There are many prefix sounds in Yoruba that carries a concept of phenomenal meaning or weight.
Abi is another one. Abike, Abidemi, Abiodun, Abiola.... Here too any Abi prefix should be assign a weight or code. How about Al? Alamu, Alabi, Alake....give Al its own weight.

At the end you will find that we have attributes that can be invoked for special utilities and progression.

The prefixes were crypted letters that ancestors used in their previous abode in Afroasia. Go look in semitic names they are filled with it. This is why it seems Arabic names are Yorubanized. Hell no,....Yoruba names returned to its original owners. Ilmi, Illah, AIimi, Alawiy (Alawiye in Yoruba), Alamin, Abu, Absalom, Abil....


Going back to IleIfe the Il connotes "space related with earth", used here for the settlement of Ife.

Do you ever wonder why the word in English language to conceptualize existence and survival is a cognate of IFE?
Life, Love.


So what really is Obalufon?

We now what Oba is, a denotion for priest. Where did this Ufon come from?

Yoruba is synonymous with burnt offering. The first priest to erect an altar for burnt offering was Noah. We are modeling the character of this righteous ancestor of Yorubas when we say Omoluabi, Omonuabi.

Ever since Noah the descendants began building Temples and in these sacred and holy grounds they will place an altar for burnt offering. No one is allowed to come into the sanctum in state of impurity. All must cleanse at the entrance to the Temple. The cleansing itself was observed as an act of worship. The objects of worship were crafted specially by a priest. Do you hear me? The basins and urns used for cleansing before access in the Temple were under dedication to a priest of lefon. These objects were the brass levon at entrance and some in the temple itself for burning incense because incense was also part of purification and cleansing.

The priest of lefon. Obalefon or Obalifon is what became Obalufon.

This cleansing is till done till today before entering temple. Muslims do the ablution and it came from Obalufon.

This why Obalufon is the priest of brass/bronze.


Any questions?


Hey meta, Alaye mi, what you think?

Oh boy, wetin be this?

OlaoChi:
nice weed you are smoking there. funniest post yet

Loool as in how mans go just sit begin conjure fantasies to build a connection where there is none is quite surreal. But like how fathers/mothers would say, we all can not sleep & lay our heads in the same direction.

MetaPhysical:
Obalufon,
I read the screenshots you posted on Frobenius journal. You keep saying he did not ascribe similarity or any transcontinental contact between Yoruba and North Africa. He did not have to. [b]His audience can make up their own conclusions[/b]based on all the artifacts and evidences of shared antiquities that his research uprooted and tabled before us. Remember that his initial discovery in Ife were accidental. So his discoveries were not total, not even after a return trip.

Beside, his own native land of Germany were at this point in its political history competing with other Europeans for superiority and dominance of world order, there is no way Frobenius could have attributed Yoruba as the civilization that seeded Europe. They were comfortable accepting Arabized Arab as contributors to their civilization but the thought of Europe acquiring knowledge from a Negro people would be unthinkable, no matter how much discovery to say Babylon was in IleIfe.

In fact, the articles Olu and I posted yesterday pointing to Idris and sand divination contained similar sentiments. European scholars admit geomancy came from Arabs and Hebrews but went on to also say it trickled down to Yoruba's IFA. They did not care to understand what IFA is and to accept, even if they studied and understood it, that their geomancy was birthed by Alraml, which itself was birthed by Kaballah, and which was seeded by IFA.

Let's dig into our own history truthfuly and not introduce Eurocentric and Arab-centric biases and stereotypes to dismiss cogent and valid points for introducing deeper knowledge.

Actually, readers can only draw conclusions when a writer leaves a work open ended after presenting several evidences.

Leo Frobenius in his work concluded that Yoruba culture was in a class of its own. He said it had nothing in common with other religions/cultures with Semitic influence/origin.

Why make a conclusion when an author already made his own conclusion? I don’t understand?

The point here is Frobenius’ work is being used wrongly. The man’s argument is Pro-Greek/Europe & anti-Arab/Semitic origin for Yoruba.

0balufonlll:


Loool as in how mans go just sit begin conjure fantasies to build a connection where there is none is quite surreal. But like how fathers/mothers would say, we all can not sleep & lay our heads in the same direction.

Fantasy ke? Ahh, so you cant see any connection?

Ok let me ask you to tell me how Obalufon originated and the meaning of Oba and lufon in Yoruba.

Im waiting....

Are you aware that Edan and Eden are cognates and carry exact sme concept?

x

0balufonlll:



Lol baba stop wyning me na

The summary of everything na say you are ascribing nouns to mythical/spiritual traditions of another culture that are at best abstract. Citing Frobenius like Mr. Olu317 did, do you know certain Yoruba elements have cognates in Korean stuff? How do you place that? Did we migrate from East Asia too then?

Ifon/Olufon began with Obatala whose first son’s name waa Olufon Aredo. Obalufon was a contraction of Oba Olufon. No, I am not saying Olufon & either Obalufons were the same people. They were nonetheless all Ugbo. However, I know for certain Olufon/Obalufon became a cognomen the same way names of former kings such Agbedegbede, Ologbenla, Olubuse, Adeyemi, Atiba & so on.

Eden is a mythical location where Hebrew creation story occurred. The same way IleIfe is at the center of Yoruba’s world creation story. Edan is a whole ‘nothing thing entirely that I can not speak on. However, if you are not an ‘omo-iya’ you certainly would not know what Edan is and of you’re an ‘Omo-Iya’, you’ll know not to speak on it not to even mention attempting to bring it into this discussion.

Cheers.

Aaah ok, i beg the elders o. Awon Iyaami osoronga. Na lack of knowledge, see as i dey roll for ground sef. I no go ever mention dat word again. Aah.


Obalufon thanks my brother. Person no know now.

0balufonlll:



Lol baba stop wyning me na

The summary of everything na say you are ascribing nouns to mythical/spiritual traditions of another culture that are at best abstract. Citing Frobenius like Mr. Olu317 did, do you know certain Yoruba elements have cognates in Korean stuff? How do you place that? Did we migrate from East Asia too then?

Ifon/Olufon began with Obatala whose first son’s name waa Olufon Aredo. Obalufon was a contraction of Oba Olufon. No, I am not saying Olufon & either Obalufons were the same people. They were nonetheless all Ugbo. However, I know for certain Olufon/Obalufon became a cognomen the same way names of former kings such Agbedegbede, Ologbenla, Olubuse, Adeyemi, Atiba & so on.

Cheers.

You mention Korean. Go look at the Obalufon mask from Ife. Those eyes resemble Negro eyes? Na which race you see in those eyes. You are providing answer to my questions to confirm my claims but yet you tell me no connection.


All the Obas are priestly titles. What you shared still does not disprove my theory of a connection between Yoruba priest line and Brass/Bronze. We call brass/bronze Ide in our own tongue. Ide is the raw material before it is ro (mould or cast) into thr different product line, and one of which is the sacred lefon used in worship in the Temple.

In ancient Hebrew practices as recorded in the Talmud, there was a priest guardian over the Temple Levon. They called it Levon because they cant pronounce Yoruba lefon.

How did Obalufon become the priest of brass in Yorubaland? I understand the name became a cognomen but there had to be a legend or saint that was personified in the cognomen.

Are you aware that right now nobody can trace what became of the Atlantis? Why cant Yoruba be Atlantis, given the many congruents between its antiquities and that of old Canaan? Why do we find a lot of mediterranean-like characters (Egyptian, Roman, Latin, Greek, Assyrian) in our lexicon?

Even our sovereign Crowns are a match to the ancient Mesopotamian and Assyrian Crowns.

What is going on....why cant we be Atlantis?

BabaRamota1980:


What will serve as evidence to show that the Yoruba Irin is same as English Iron and that it was copied from Yoruba?

same way any two words are proven to be cognate

But first of all are you a linguist? You do realize studying such social sciences in the university equips one with the rules and hints of how to properly embark on research and how to identify credible sources?

x

OlaoChi:
same way any two words are proven to be cognate

But first of all are you a linguist? You do realize studying such social sciences in the university equips one with the rules and hints of how to properly embark on research and how to identify credible sources?

Iru wahala wo ni eyi n'tori Olorun?


I dont think linguist should be allowed to apply rules obtained from empirical studies conducted using European languages on laguages and tongues outside the realm of European cultures.

Language, as sound, carries emotions. Emotions are planted with cultural nuances. So the emotion expressed out of a Yoruba person in witness of a immoral conduct will be different from how an Igala would perceive it, even though both will find the act repulsive. This is why a Yoruba might say "yee, egbami o!" in shock....while the Igala might express the shock in a different emotive.

Africans generally respond to environment through emotions, we apply logic later. Europeans are opposite of that.


The rules and protocols of linguistics are put together under a logical approach....and is why they missed the points by far in Sound articulation between the various tongues aggregated into groups and families.

I believe same issue as this was discovered in women cosmetics in America when African-American women in the 80s came on the pages of Jet and Ebony to decry the stereotypes in pharmacology and dermatology with their assumptions that whatever works on a European skin can be applied and will work for black skin.


Do we have rules and protocols of sound experiments on African vocals conducted and instituted by African linguists? We do not. Our languages are coded based on rules that worked for foreign tongues.


Irin and Iron are same thing and carry same concept, shouldnt need a linguist to see that.

Is Ufe (Benin) and Ife (Yoruba) not the same? Is Eko (Yoruba) and Ikko (Hausa) not same? Is Ogbomosho and Ogbomoso not same?

In fact, Iduro (Yoruba) and Endure (English) are same. Akoro (Yoruba) and Coronet (English) are same.

Okun (Yoruba) and Ocean (English) are same. Orisha (Yoruba) and Oracle (English) are same.

Dont make me exhaust all my little knowledge of Yoruba words on one page abeg.

0balufonlll:



Looooooool you’re cracking me up, I tell you. ‘Lefon’ is a product of Ide worshipped in the temple. What temple? .

So because I mentioned that Frobenius linked similarities between Koreans and Yoruba, you have quickly concluded the artworks dug in Ife have Asian origins? .

Well, Frobenius also found a lot similarities between Yoruba and Native American. So I guess you’ll conclude Moremi’s real name was Pocahontas then? . Omo this level funny o, no offense.

I now see why you mentioned Edan. Edan has nothing to do with Obalufon. Rather, Edan is ascribed to Obatala’s last child whose name I can not mention.

Obalufon is not the priest of brass. In fact, brass is much more important to Osun than any other deity. Obalufon was derived from Olufon. See the screenshot below.

Is Obalufon not the patron of brassworks in Yoruba culture?

Aah ah, yes now. I dont need Frobenius to say it. Me sef have been wondering why these casts have foreign features, all of them, no exception. These cant be errors. They are realist arts and represent true likeness.

Moremi is the same personification as Maryam.

Please dont mention anything to do with again. Just forget I even asked. I no want trouble abeg.


You see i didnt know that about Obalufon. I thank you for sharing the knowledge. That still does not mean he was not a migrant though.

Do you know the story of Eyo in Lagos? Have you ever heard about Olugbani and her brothers, Ejilu and Malaki? I hear these brothers came from the Ijebus, some say from Old Oyo and related to an Egungun, then some say they came from Ife. Me Im thinking these Ejilu and Malaki are actually the two brothers Elijah and Malachi. I need to speak to someone who know more about these Ejilu and Malaki. I already asked metaphysics he refused to talk about it. He said they have an iledi awopa, thats end of it. Share your knowledge of these brothers please.

0balufonlll:



Lol baba stop wyning me na

The summary of everything na say you are ascribing nouns to mythical/spiritual traditions of another culture that are at best abstract. Citing Frobenius like Mr. Olu317 did, do you know certain Yoruba elements have cognates in Korean stuff? How do you place that? Did we migrate from East Asia too then?

Ifon/Olufon began with Obatala whose first son’s name waa Olufon Aredo. Obalufon was a contraction of Oba Olufon. No, I am not saying Olufon & either Obalufons were the same people. They were nonetheless all Ugbo. However, I know for certain Olufon/Obalufon became a cognomen the same way names of former kings such Agbedegbede, Ologbenla, Olubuse, Adeyemi, Atiba & so on.

Eden is a mythical location where Hebrew creation story occurred. The same way IleIfe is at the center of Yoruba’s world creation story. Edan is a whole ‘nothing thing entirely that I can not speak on. However, if you are not an ‘omo-iya’ you certainly would not know what Edan is and of you’re an ‘Omo-Iya’, you’ll know not to speak on it not to even mention attempting to bring it into this discussion.

Cheers.

you see, I want you to be open-minded as it relate to this quest of Yoruba identity. When I mentioned Leo Fronebius, did you take time to check the year his work was released? No I guess , because he had died in 1937 and some of his work about Yoruba was released later years. The Atlantis Africanus, that you posted still confirmed :

1. THAT ONLY PEOPLE IN SOUDAN /SUDAN DOWNWARD LINE WHO STILL MAKE OFFERING IN THE FORM OF BURNT SACRIFICES LIKE THE ANCIENT RACES OF THE MEDITERRANEAN .

Question: Why is it so if Yorubas arent from Middle East?

Apart from Leo Fronebius

2. Other researchers, thought the same that the Yoruba people originated from the Middle East (p. 13 Drewal, Henry John, John Pemberton, Rowland Abiodun, and Allen Wardwell, Dierk Lange

Question: why such thoughts by these well funded researchers if they are not convinced?

3. Some of the sculpture work found in wunminije at ILE IFE were not seen by Leo Fronebuis because he had died some years before some of the realism ART work were found compare to Middle East/ ETRUSCAN/ GREEK'S and not compared to Subsahara.

Question: Why such comparison?

4. I posted ten (10) out of twenty-three (23) ANCIENT HEBREW letters having same meaning with YORUBAS .Yet, you disagree? Kindly post those country(ies) ALPHABETS with whom you claimed have similar words with Yorubas to hit your point.

Question: Why such similarities with ancient Hebrew letters?


5. Do you know an assumed sculpture head of king likened to yoruba king head at ILEIFE was found in Israel which dated back to three thousand
( 3000) years?
Question: Can you unravel such mystery?

6. Yoruba of ancient was said to written a form of writing likened to Ajami.

Question: Was the Ajami kind of readable by Jausas or Arabs?

7. I mentioned that Yoruba had a footprint In North Africa with the advent of IFA/AFA and that Arabs had no name linked to IFA despite their knowledge on Geomancy ( sand divination) but only Hebrew knew EPHOD–corrupted word of IFA by interpreters to modern language.

Question: Can you not see the difference?

8. O' ba as a word exist within Hebrew/Canaan/ ancient lexicon before Arabs adopted the name

Question: Did the word travel to Yoruba land by chance?

9. Láa is an Archaic Yoruba word for teach/enlighten.Apart from the first meaning, it can also be use for ‘OPEN'

Question: How did the word became same between with ancient Hebrew and such glaring semblance ?

10. Oosa/Orisa( ,Ursa/ OSA exist middle East sncient lexicon?

Question: Did yorubas borrowed the word?

Below is the screenshot you posted that even Leo Fronebius acknowledge Yorubas culture as distinct from other people of Sudan axis and West Africa's

Láa mi/wa ló óyé( teach me/us I/we don't get you)

x

BabaRamota1980:


Iru wahala wo ni eyi n'tori Olorun?


I dont think linguist should be allowed to apply rules obtained from empirical studies conducted using European languages on laguages and tongues outside the realm of European cultures.

Language, as sound, carries emotions. Emotions are planted with cultural nuances. So the emotion expressed out of a Yoruba person in witness of a immoral conduct will be different from how an Igala would perceive it, even though both will find the act repulsive. This is why a Yoruba might say "yee, egbami o!" in shock....while the Igala might express the shock in a different emotive.

Africans generally respond to environment through emotions, we apply logic later. Europeans are opposite of that.


The rules and protocols of linguistics are put together under a logical approach....and is why they missed the points by far in Sound articulation between the various tongues aggregated into groups and families.

I believe same issue as this was discovered in women cosmetics in America when African-American women in the 80s came on the pages of Jet and Ebony to decry the stereotypes in pharmacology and dermatology with their assumptions that whatever works on a European skin can be applied and will work for black skin.


Do we have rules and protocols of sound experiments on African vocals conducted and instituted by African linguists? We do not. Our languages are coded based on rules that worked for foreign tongues.


Irin and Iron are same thing and carry same concept, shouldnt need a linguist to see that.

Is Ufe (Benin) and Ife (Yoruba) not the same? Is Eko (Yoruba) and Ikko (Hausa) not same? Is Ogbomosho and Ogbomoso not same?

In fact, Iduro (Yoruba) and Endure (English) are same. Akoro (Yoruba) and Coronet (English) are same.

Okun (Yoruba) and Ocean (English) are same. Orisha (Yoruba) and Oracle (English) are same.

Dont make me exhaust all my little knowledge of Yoruba words on one page abeg.

and Otsuki (Japanese for moon) and Osukpa (Yoruba for moon) are same, Omi (water) and Mizu are the same. Ilé" house in Yoruba is "Ie" in Japanese

Anybody can link up any two unrelated languages with a few words that are merely coincidental, it takes a trained linguist to prove these words are actual cognates

Goodluck with that university degree and defending your thesis amongst fellow linguists

Since you are no scholar only a slowpoke would take you seriously over actual scholars in the field

0balufonlll:


What does the timing of publishing have to do with anything.

LOL your entire post is guess work. Yoruba has a lot of similarities with native indians too, how do you place that? Yoruba has a lot of similarities with Greeks, how do you place that? In a nutshell, all cultures share similarities across the world.

1. How have you defined who the people of the mediterrenean are and how is it you have concluded Frobenius was referring to MEast? You are the one putting words in the man’s mouth to suit your agenda now.

2. Your lack of training in reconstructibg history or studyinh society is obvious here. All these scholars you’ve mentioned have all pursued a foreign origin for Yoruba culture and this is couched in the inferior status Europeans have ascribed to Africans. If you read Frobenius’ paper from the first page withput perverting it to your preconceived goal you would see he mentioned that in all of Germany/Europe Africa was regarded as the dark continent with no civilization. And also, their theories have been debunked. Read papers written when African Historiography began.

3. What exactly are you saying here?

4. Do you speak, comprehend & can write Hebrew? Has your proficiency in the language been certified or do you rely on secondary sources that fit your narratives? Do you know the etymology of Hebrew words?

5. LMAO. Who dug it & when? Share a link to this groundbreaking but quiet finding, please.

6. Yoruba of ancient form . Yoruba is a 19th/20th century invention. Which of the dialect is written closely to Ajami? Oyo, Awori, Ijebu, Ife?

7. At what point in history did Hebrew & Yoruba have contact to have shared Ifa/Ephod? Which of the Yoruba groups led this contact?

8. I don’t know what you mean by O’ba. How many years have you doje extensive work on Arabic for to know the etymology of Arab lexicons?

9. Oya put ami on the ‘Laa’ to see if it nakes any sense to you.

10. Are you aware Orisa was just one deity’s name? And Oosa was Oyo’s dialect variation?

Do you know that Urdu & Odu sound familiar? Do you also know that Izoduwa & Oduduwa go together? Do you also know that Adimula goes with Young Mulla that Lil’ Wayne popuatized. Do you also know that Aso goes with Asher/Usher? Eba goes with Elba? That Sekete goes with Skrtl? That paraga goes with Paraguay?

Do you realize you are engaging in the same thing Oba Benin did?

Do you also see it is a game anyone can play, especially kids?

Baba make I nor waste your time & effort o. This is not an area I consider pursuing.

1. Obviously, you didn't read much books as I had thought or done researches of such to distinguish the difference between Sudan belt and Mediterranean people. I have seen your strength

2. Oh I see, so I lacked reconstruction of some sort ,yet you failed to understand between the line of migration. Theories debunked by who or which institution (s)? Name them abeg

What has human history got to do with inferiority complex? In fact, the western historians were the ones that exposed their political class to the rest of the world about the different ancient kingdoms of Africa and her might.
You really made me burst into laughter reading such thin opinion of yours.

3. Have you forgotten that you are the one that ascribed everything to Leo Fronebius art work? I mentioned that discoveries were made after the death of Leo in 1937. Even as at 1938 upward Ooni begun to collect all artefacts found at ILE IFE

4. Oh I see, the modern Hebrew or the ones which I showed you the pictographs? Come off it bro. The development of Modern day Hebrew is patterned after Arabic.

5 . Who dug it? In 1938 a man was digging a house foundation near the Oni’s palace when he discovered thirteen heads. Shortly after that in early 1939 four more heads and another torso were found in the same location, a compound called Wunmonije (Willett 1967: 14, 15).

6. So, Yoruba as coined in 19th/20th century weren't the same people that left IFE quarters? Can you even count how many names migrants from ILEIFE bore? You are indeed funny.

7. Didnt I post work that showed Yoruba had link with North Africa after careful study by previous scholars? I have answered that .Don't drag me backward.

8. etymology behind O ba? ‘O'stand for authority/reign while the ‘Ba' stand for ontop/above. Using a simple illustrations; Adié sa bá . Bro, I am sure you know a lot of people/ scholars/linguists have done extensive research on Arabs–Arabic language and her Race , why would I do such again? One uses citation after acquiring additional knowledge from their books and do comparison with one and others.

9. Put an accent you mean? oh k, ‘Láa, is accented.

10. ‘ Sound similar' doesn't mean the same as similar. Get the difference. This is absolute opposite to your information . Comparison and contrast is what I have exposed here as regard ancient Hebrew language's similarities. In fact, some researchers had done many alike in the past.

And I mentioned renowned western world class scholars as well to back up my information.

IZoduwa is not the same as Odua . In fact, I and others have exposed Edo lies.Odua as a man was the reason someone like me was born and millions other. So, there is no big deal if indeed Odua was Edo but HE WAS NOT FROM THEIR TERRTITORY. And IZODUWA WAS NEVER ODUA.

I have no intention to drag you into anything because it is not your sphere.

I AM A CORE AND UNDILLUTED YORUBAMAN.

Cheers

Olu317:


1. Obviously, you didn't read much books as I had thought or done researches of such to distinguish the difference between Sudan belt and Mediterranean people. I have seen your strength

2. Oh I see, so I lacked reconstruction of some sort ,yet you failed to understand between the line of migration. Theories debunked by who or which institution (s)? Name them abeg

What has human history got to do with inferiority complex? In fact, the western historians were the ones that exposed their political class to the rest of the world about the different ancient kingdoms of Africa and her might.
You really made me burst into laughter reading such thin opinion of yours.

3. Have you forgotten that you are the one that ascribed everything to Leo Fronebius art work? I mentioned that discoveries were made after the death of Leo in 1937. Even as at 1938 upward Ooni begun to collect all artefacts found at ILE IFE

4. Oh I see, the modern Hebrew or the ones which I showed you the pictographs? Come off it bro. The development of Modern day Hebrew is patterned after Arabic.

5 . Who dug it? In 1938 a man was digging a house foundation near the Oni’s palace when he discovered thirteen heads. Shortly after that in early 1939 four more heads and this torso were found in the same location, a compound called Wunmonije (Willett 1967: 14, 15).

6. So, Yoruba as coined in 19th/20th century weren't the same people that left IFE quarters? Can you even count how many names migrants from ILEIFE bore? You are indeed funny.

7. Didnt I post work that showed Yoruba had link with North Africa after careful study by previous scholars? I have answered that .Don't drag me backward.

8. etymology behind O ba? ‘O'stand for authority/reign while the ‘Ba' stand for ontop/above. Using a simple illustrations; Adié sa bá . Then, I am sure you know a lot of people/ scholars/linguists have done extensive research on Arabs–Arabic language and Race , why would I do such again? One uses citation after acquiring additional knowledge from their books and do comparison with one and others.

9. Put an accent you mean? oh k . Láa is the accented.

10. ‘ Sound similar' doesn't mean the same as similar. Get the difference. This is absolute opposite to information . Comparison and contrast is what I have exposed here as regard ancient Hebrew language's similarities.
And I mentioned renowned western world scholars as well to back up.

IZoduwa is not the same as Odua . In fact, I and others have exposed their lies. And they are not in the same people oooo.

I have no intention to drag you into anything because it is not your sphere.

I AM A CORE AND UNDILLUTED YORUBAMAN.

Cheers

Looool OK. Nor vex.

I look forward to seeing you publish a paper on all of this & the reaction that follows.

All the best, baba.