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Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by IG: 12:58am On Mar 24, 2011 |
maclatunji: I am happy you took time to read some of the links. One thing you need to know is that as late as the 1800s it is considered very rare to see a white Arab. Generally Arabs are classified into 3 main types and only one of those types represent the white Arabs of today. Interestingly they are called Arab-al-Musta'riba meaning "The Arabized Arabs". That tells you that they were originally non-Arabs.
http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-original-black-african-arabs-of-arabia-part-1-ogu-eji-ofo-annu/ Listen to what a certain past historian said in his book.
1 Like 2 Shares |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by tothemax86: 8:44pm On Oct 22, 2011 |
Eku bear and all the others saying there is no connection between yoruba and arabs, you make some valid points, however maybe we did not descend from the arabs but there is definitely links. My name is Ajala, and I have always wondered why Ajala is in the middle of Saudi Arabia, search on google for Ajala, Saudi Arabia |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Rgp92: 9:25pm On Oct 22, 2011 |
Yoruba's are 100% Africans. Ile ife is the cradle of West Africa civilization. Fvck you all. 2 Likes |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Rgp92: 9:27pm On Oct 22, 2011 |
Just joking, i love you all <3 |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Ybutterfly: 4:09pm On Oct 23, 2011 |
^^^^^^^^^^^the yoruba's did not come from arab's but there has been a mix with yoruba's & hausa'a of the north of Nigeria, especially the muslims but still a minority though^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^you should check this out: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-774700.0.html |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by tpia5: 5:27pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
yorubas are not arabs, however, there is definitely some ancient middle eastern input, same as with other west african tribes. its too far back to be considered recent though. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by tpia5: 5:29pm On Feb 08, 2013 |
on the mecca legend, one has to find out what the composition or structure of ancient mecca was, in order to accept or disbelieve the account. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by TonySpike: 7:44pm On Feb 09, 2013 |
tpia@: The Mecca legend has been investigated by Dierk Lange and it appears that the name Mondayana was what actually appeared in the Oyo oral history. Mondayana refers to the great Assyrian city called Nineveh/ninwe/ninefe. This thread might be useful www.nairaland.com/1092081/might-want-know-yorubas-part |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by tpia5: 4:36am On Feb 10, 2013 |
might be trade routes involved perhaps. however, mecca is directly across from sudan: [img]http://2.bp..com/_kbEQxWyGVhA/SMLc813ec9I/AAAAAAAAK3A/0TLPk4Wm5Sk/s400/Mecca%252C_Saudi_Arabia_locator_map.png[/img] separated by the sea. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by DuduNegro: 7:42am On Feb 10, 2013 |
i read the thread, good discussion on both sides. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Blyss: 5:45am On Feb 11, 2013 |
IG: This is from a book "The Unknown Arabs: Clear And Definitive Proof Of The Dark Complexion Of The Original Arabs And The Arab Origin Of The So-Called African Americans" by Tariq Berry pages 122-123 Humm, this is total crap, but going along with the issue at hand; the topic should read the Yoruba origins of the Arabs and not the other way around. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 2:52pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
Jenifa_: There is no such thing as Yorubas having an Arabic origin.exactly and americans dont have british origins, how absurd. they just had a leader named george washington who was a offficer in the british army , thats all that is. even the Fulani are supposedly also indigenous to Africapeople give away their unwillingness to research by their language with words like "supposedly" u gonna have a hard time convincing the fulani of morocco,egypt, tunis, lybia, algeria, sudan, ethiopia and saudi arabia of that |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 2:53pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
eku_bear:i know africans look more like afrikaaners. those guys are hard down there |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 3:15pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
tothemax86: Eku bear and all the others saying there is no connection between yoruba and arabs, you make some valid points, however maybe we did not descend from the arabs but there is definitely links. My name is Ajala, and I have always wondered why Ajala is in the middle of Saudi Arabia, search on google for Ajala, Saudi Arabia Eku bear and all the others saying there is no connection between yoruba and arabs, you make some valid pointsman, u really really really really going to have to point those out to me , i mean like give me bullets or something because i didnt see one shred of anything remotely akin to points being made by the above mentioned fellowship. however maybe we did not descend from the arabs but there is definitely links. My name is Ajala, and I have always wondered why Ajala is in the middle of Saudi Arabia, search on google for Ajala, Saudi ArabiaWhy is london a latin word why does Englisc(anglo-saxon english) have latin words in their vocab and they live on an island in north western europe far away from rome? go to all yoruba historians and arab historians and fula and hausa historians to get the full story because the yaraba are not a black and white simple story. its deeper because as their own scholars say they migrated and left people in different spots , hence each remaining people will have a piece of fulfilling info. the yaraba in nigeria are not the sole keepers of the knowledge of the people. have you considered about the yaraba in north africa or the yaraba in sudan |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 3:16pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
Rgp92: Yoruba's are 100% Africans. Ile ife is the cradle of West Africa civilization. Fvck you all.i agree , and they even came before ghana, mali, and songhai |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 3:26pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
Ybutterfly: ^^^^^^^^^^^the yoruba's did not come from arab's but there has been a mix with yoruba's & hausa'a of the north of Nigeria, especially the muslims but still a minority though^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the yoruba's did not come from arab'shave to counter the evidence given by yoruba historians, until then im gonna go with cheikh adam abdullah illori a yoruba scholar muhammad bello a fulani scholar who interviewed the yoruba in his time |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 3:34pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
tpia@: yorubas are not arabs, however, there is definitely some ancient middle eastern input, same as with other west african tribes.1. do u know what arab historians consider what an arab is? 2. ancient arab input meaning input how? and if there is an input then how are they not arabs. meaning the input will be preserved by the host but the input will never change its origins. its too far back to be considered recent though.that statement gotta bring some evidence against the yoruba scholar adam illori and the people who he got it from, other than that it holds no weight. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 3:36pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
Blyss:i know u should write a book called "Total Crap vs the Yoruba origins of Arabs " |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by member3(m): 4:29pm On Jul 25, 2013 |
tpia@:not necessarily because a migrate people of a place may or may not maintain there culture wholly as they did pre-migration. example : 1.)japanese people are REPORTEDLY(just like the reports of yoruba being from mecca) descended from Chinese immigrants however the Japanese language is considered an isolate language having absolutely no relation with chinese at all. 2.)MOdern english is descendant of languages that include german, dutch, and frisian, however it is common knowledge that these languages are far away from each other when in usage. you dont even have to travel that far away from the base people to see that people may or may not maintain cultural traits of their base family. The composition of mecca during the time of lamurudu is the amaaliqa who existed also in kanaan,iraq,and egypt. The composition of mecca during the time of islam is the quraish |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Nobody: 6:38pm On Sep 06, 2013 |
Well the Yoruba history is a dept of knowledge that is not available to all, but to some, why not find out more? |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by tpia5: 7:18pm On Oct 25, 2013 |
i think the origins of the yorubas has been done time and time again, its a topic that remains interesting everytime and everywhere its discussed, as are all such matters regardless of location. what i would like to know now is are there any records of migration of some of the ancient yorubas inwards from the coast. fake and concocted history stay out plz, the question is not for you. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by TonySpike: 12:04pm On Oct 26, 2013 |
tpia@: The coastal question has been on my mind since we discussed the possible roots of phoenician and Roman word sthat seem to appear in the Yoruba lexicon. I have found some evidence of Phoenicians travelling around Africa and camping at different places on the continent, I have also found documentations of the Roman expedition as far as Lake Chad in ancient times. I am yet to find the possibility of Romans sailing up to West Africa in ancient times. I'll keep on searching though... |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Nobody: 1:24pm On Oct 26, 2013 |
PhysicsMHD: “An early example of such traditions of migration is given by the Sokoto scholar Muhammad Bello, according to whom the Yoruba were 'remnants of the Banu Kan'an, which is the tribe of Nimrud' who had been expelled from Iraq.” - The Oyo Empire: c.1600-c.1836 (1977) by Robin Law. Law's source for this is E.J. Arnett's translation of Rise of the Sokoto Fulani, p.16, which can be found on Thomas Hodgkin's Nigerian Perspectives, p.78 Most logical and reasonable argument put forward thus far (and ever on the Yoruba and Arab/Mecca connection) The key thing to note is - migration from Mecca was in relation to OYO which was the only place/people referred as Yoruba originally. The above clearly throws the Mecca/Oduduwa/Ile-Ife overboard. Thank you PhysicsQED - A very obvious and in-your-face point that has been evasive to me. I wonder why I have never connected the dots to arrive at this beautiful proposition. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by MetaPhysical: 9:29pm On Oct 26, 2013 |
9jacrip: Who qualifies as an Egyptian in 1300? Who qualifies as an Egyptian in 1700? Who qualifies to be called an Egyptian in 2000? Sometimes I get a mixed feeling about the depth of sincerity on the issue of Yoruba study. On the subject of who he is, there is no one who can act as authority and tell from the leaves of a book a different version than what the Yoruba believes in his own spirit and being. Yoruba oral historians, labeled illiterates and untutored, are reciting names of places that only exist in ancient maps no longer in circulation and yet we question the authencity of their recollect. There is only one way they could have known of these far away lands and that is 1. to have the capacity to read and understand maps and to have access to the out of circulation maps; 2. to have been tutored in oral record keeping and reproduction - and in whicj case they serve as involuntary vaults for the records. Now which is it, if they are illiterate and cant read maps were they then tutored the art of record retention? Where did they hear about mondyana (midyan) considering their physical separation by thousands of miles from a land which has been wiped off the face of earth? We should give credit where due. A non Yoruba tells you he read a book which he considers the "authority" on Yoruba history, written by another non-Yoruba, who collected the materials in his book from local orators..should you be agreeing "totally" with such input that puts emphasis of "authority" on foreign writer than local historians? Have you read the entire and unabridged copy of this narration from Bello? An English copy exist but its not free, a free copy exist in Arabic language. It opens with " We are told.." Told by who? Bello's narration has earned him many credits and he is often cited as another authority on the origin of Yorubas, but if he heard this origin story from Oyo or Kanuri or Arabs (the only people he had contact with) then it will firmly put away the doubt on Yoruba origin, whether that Yoruba is Oyo or not. Somehow people are wont to say only foreigners can tell Yoruba who he is. That has always being Physics position. Im surprised you took his bs wholeheartedly and agreed with him as "most logical and reasonable".., most biased and untruthful is more fitting. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Nobody: 9:50pm On Oct 26, 2013 |
MetaPhysical: Bro, I understand your argument and I'm from that school of thought too. Nobody knows Yoruba history indepth more than the Yoruba themselves who have it deeply recorded in Ifa corpus and 'credible oral history' to mention a few -all of these have never attributed Yoruba to Mecca nor Arab until Oyo/Samuel Johnson. @ the bolded: The reason I said I accepted his argument as most logical and reasonable is because there's no way it is reasonable and truthful to say Yoruba has Arab origin, regardless of the existence black Arabs. In a nutshell, I'm only confining the Arab origins logic to Oyo (not Ile-Ife/entire Yorubaland) which originally emanated as a result of Oyo being the only town referred to as 'Yoruba' back then and known by the Northerners. If we confine Oyo to be the Yoruba that emigrated from Mecca/Arabia while keeping in mind the real history of Oyo in mind - this would help us throw the Arab/Mecca connection overboard completely. I'm anti-Arab-origin, I would never subscribe to that proposition - Yoruba did not come from Mecca/Arab, neither did Oduduwa, who met people in Ile-Ife anyways. I'm not sure you understand my standpoint here but I can't type for long as I'm pretty much occupied right now. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by MetaPhysical: 2:52pm On Oct 27, 2013 |
Thanks for the clarification bro. There are many angles from which I can draw a link but let's start from this easy one. What is Arab? Hint: what is Araba of Ife? What is Rabbi? What is Yoruba? |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Fulaman198(m): 6:08pm On Oct 27, 2013 |
Africans need to be proud of their own roots instead of trying to find relation to another group not related to them |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by Nobody: 6:54pm On Oct 27, 2013 |
MetaPhysical: Thanks for the clarification bro. Bro, truly there are many angles from which one can draw a link to middle eastern/Mesopotamian civilization to Yoruba and other cultures which doesn't necessarily mean a migration to Ile-Ife. Araba is head of Ifa devotee family compound in Ile-Ife and automatically the head of Ifa movement in the whole world. Rabbi is supposed to be a Jewish teacher. Yoruba is what Hausa/Fulanis/Nupes used in classifying the people of Oyo in Katunga alone. Which later became used to encompass the entire varieties of Yoruba. There was a thread you, Mr Prexious and some other brilliant folks dissected and sought to connect Yoruba and Midde-Eastern civilization by picking words that sounds alike and some with almost the same meanings. This could be attained if attempted with lets say any of the civilizations in Africa or Americas and doesn't necessarily mean they migrated. It could simply mean there was a 'contact' at some point. I would never look at Yoruba history from the context of Arab/Jew (Middle-East) context, I'd forever throw it out the window and frown upon it wherever I come across it. It is utter bullshit and a lame attempt to seek a validation where there is none. If Yoruba cannot dig up 'reasonable' history of where they supposedly came from then it is better they live it at that and focus on other parts of their history which could be their strength and selling point in the academia rather than appear foolish with some Hamitic hypothesis. |
Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by MetaPhysical: 12:11am On Oct 28, 2013 |
This is exactly my point, you answered my question from a textbook approach. Knowledge of self must transcend dictionaries, google, wiki, textbooks, and so on. The head of Ifa worldwide is Araba; but what does Araba mean? Rabbi is a priest of the Jewish faith but what does Rabbi mean? Arab is the name of a race but what does Arab stand for? Yoruba, Bariba, Yauri, Babur; these are all ethnic groups in Nigeria. Bariba people talk about Kisra and in that legend they share that the Yoruba, Bariba and Babur are all one people dating back to Assyria. In Yoruba we have the legend of Asara reliving the Assyrian experience between Abraham and Nimrod. Could Yoruba, Bariba and Babur people all be lying about their origin in Assyria? Yoruba, Bariba and Babur share similar facial marks and body tattoo; are each city dwellers; are ruler-states and each had a thriving Kingdom. Robin Law and all other profiled writers missed this important link between the three most important Kingdoms of Nigeria.. The Samuel Johnson's book in circulation is a bridged version of the original. What is it in the original version that the European publishers did not want in public knowledge? We will never know but there is enough of what we know to convince that Yoruba had a footprint in AfroAsia. If Yoruba's oral history is not credible enough for acceptance, is the Bariba's and the Babur's supporting history of a shared Yoruba origin also unacceptable? Let's explore something else. Look at the following. These are traditional rites on one hand by Yoruba traditional worshippers and on the other by Muslims. When on the knees (Orukun in Yoruba) Muslims call it Rukuh. When facedown on the ground (S'oju de or F'ori ba'le in Yoruba) Muslims call it Sajjada. What are the connecting links between rites of worship in Ifa and in Islam? How did Yoruba oral historians, uneducated and unlettered, know about Assyria (Asara) and Midyan (Mondiana) ? Are we still in doubt about the authenticity of their records? I have to ask again for a non-textbook meaning of Araba, Arab, Yoruba and Rabbi. There are two roots - Ra - and - Ba - 1 Like 2 Shares
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Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by MetaPhysical: 12:13am On Oct 28, 2013 |
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Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by MetaPhysical: 12:20am On Oct 28, 2013 |
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Re: The Arab Origin Of The Yorubas by PhysicsQED(m): 1:42am On Oct 28, 2013 |
MetaPhysical: MetaPhysical/Mayor of Lagos/Dudu Negro/Negro Ntns/etc. I don't have a particular "position" on "who can tell Yoruba who he is" and I think I will refrain from commenting on issues like this in the future, so that there's no confusion about that. What 9jacrip quoted was an old post I made back when I thought I could just give an honest opinion on something which I was viewing simply as an "academic" question. It's not something I posted recently, and after our interaction on that that "Yoruba version of Hallelujah" thread by prexios (the title of which was later changed to "Yoruba and Canaanland connection" or something like that), I decided not to comment on this general topic again, as I don't think either of us is going to be convinced of the validity of the views of the other side. However, although that post of mine in this thread is an old post, my views haven't changed much - there are only minor alterations I would make to that original post in this thread. Yes Law is a non-Yoruba, obviously. However, I never tried to present him as "the "authority" on Yoruba history," but instead made a side comment about my views about an excellent book of his which I had read recently. The issue of how Yorubas should view his work with regard to their history or who they should consider "the authority" on their history isn't something I commented on, and I wouldn't have an opinion on that anyway. I gave my opinion on how I viewed that particular book of Law's. I was addressing the topic as a purely academic question to give an opinion on, as I have no real personal stake in the issue, and if there was any confusion about that before, I hope there isn't any now. As for what the basis for my views really is, there is something I would like you to do to see where I'm coming from and to understand why someone could have the views I had/have on this issue without having any particular preexisting "position" on "who can tell Yoruba who he is." Read these three articles in their entirety and after you've read them, I think you'll understand why my position doesn't follow from any particular bias, but is just an honest statement of my opinion based on what I've read (I don't claim to know it all): 1) Iwe Itan Ọyọ: A Traditional Yoruba History and Its Author Author(s): Toyin Falọla, Michel R. Doortmont The Journal of African History Vol. 30, No. 2 (1989), pp. 301-329 http://www.jstor.org/stable/183070 2) How Truly Traditional Is Our Traditional History? The Case of Samuel Johnson and the Recording of Yoruba Oral Tradition Author(s): Robin Law History in Africa Vol. 11 (1984), pp. 195-221 http://www.jstor.org/stable/3171634 3) THE "HAMITIC HYPOTHESIS" IN INDIGENOUS WEST AFRICAN HISTORICAL THOUGHT Author(s): Robin Law History in Africa Vol. 36, (2009), pp. 293-314 http://www.jstor.org/stable/40864522 You can read these three by creating an account on JSTOR, and adding them to the "shelf" of your profile as the three free articles for every 14 days. Or if you're at an academic institution with a subscription to JSTOR, you can just access them (and multiple other articles) directly through the participating institution. P.S.: On the Kisra and Borgu stuff, I think I commented briefly on that in a discussion with you from a long time ago. But an article you might want to read on that is the following: P. F. de Moraes Farias, "A Letter from Ki-Tooro Mahaman Gaani, King of Busa (Borgu, northern Nigeria) about the 'Kisra' Stories of Origin (c. 1910)," Sudanic Africa 3 (1992) You can access the article here: http://www.smi.uib.no/sa/03/sa3toc.html And here's a direct link: http://www.smi.uib.no/sa/03/3Busa.pdf There are of course many other interesting publications on Borgu and the Kisra legend and the origin and dispersal of that legend, but I think this one gives some important perspective and background information that could be useful when evaluating those stories. I'm going to be pretty busy over the next week, so if I do respond to this thread, it won't be soon. |
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