Fezz:


Why do you look at this story from only one angle (myopic). From the benin version, Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) the fugitive benin prince was made king in ile-ife. His son oranmiyan was sent to rule his ancestry land, which means that oranmiyan and his son eweka are still benin princes.

In addition it also means that all royal stools in Yoruba land are connected to benin lineage because the yoruba royalties claim Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) as their father.

If you want to be diplomatic about this, I suggest you just stop arguing about this topic because there is no conclusive answer to this mystery.

It is not a mystery. Awolowo and some other Nigerians created oduduwa while they were students in London.
Benin is an empire, you just can't compare it with these villages which started calling themselves kingdoms after the British had defeated the actual kingdoms and destroyed the traditional institutions.

Fezz:
Why do you look at this story from only one angle (myopic). From the benin version, Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) the fugitive benin prince was made king in ile-ife. His son oranmiyan was sent to rule his ancestry land, which means that oranmiyan and his son eweka are still benin princes.

In addition it also means that all royal stools in Yoruba land are connected to benin lineage because the yoruba royalties claim Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) as their father.

If you want to be diplomatic about this, I suggest you just stop arguing about this topic because there is no conclusive answer to this mystery.

You obviously arrived late to the party.

Historians have debunked your recent fraudulent equation (of your Ekaladerhan and Oduduwa) as an interesting nonsense.

Next!

Truthshots:

It is not a mystery. Awolowo and some other Nigerians created oduduwa while they were students in London.

Yet, Ekalderhan is Oduduwa (according to your people).

And yet, Samuel Johnson’s work is littered with details about Oduduwa as a central figure in the history of the Yorubas.

Jude, pick one hustle and pursue it.

Truthshots:

Don't mind them, they are jealous, each time Benin history comes up in BBC or CNN, these jealous guys will show up online trying to vent their frustration on Benin, just ignore them.

You have said it all.

TAO11:
Lol.

Summary of your comment:

Fezz: Real history is better than folklore.

Also Fezz: Proceeds immediately to bombard me with folklore and folklore alone. Lol.

Actually it's all folklore, but my version is more plausible than yours. Common! we all know that the present oba of benin doesn't see the present ooni of ife in such high regards to bow down every morning to worship him as Oghene, it's quite ludicrous and unimaginable. Lol

If any of such practice ever happened, it was only directed towards the Oghene of pre-historic era in Uhe

Fezz:


Actually it's all folklore, but my version is more plausible than yours. Common! we all know that the present oba of benin doesn't see the present ooni of ife in such high regards to bow down every morning to worship him as Oghene, it's quite ludicrous and unimaginable. Lol

If any of such practice ever happened, it was only directed towards the Oghene of pre-historic era in Uhe

1) The Oba has never seen the Oni of IFA as anything other than a native doctor.
2) Lies have been told against the Oba of Benin (when you are famous, people will gossip about you) and lies will be told against the Oba of Benin.
3)The only truth is that the Oba of Benin as ruler of a mighty independent empire will never in anybody's wildest dream see himself as second fiddles to the native doctor of a village called Ife.
4) once again uhe, oghene are fictions...If you chose to continue discussing fictions I will not waste any more second providing you with information or replying you.

Fezz:
Actually it's all folklore, but my version is more plausible than yours. Common! we all know that the present oba of benin doesn't see the present ooni of ife in such high regards to bow down every morning to worship him as Oghene, it's quite ludicrous and unimaginable. Lol

If any of such practice ever happened, it was only directed towards the Oghene of pre-historic era in Uhe

I’m glad you confessed that what you typed is your version.

But guess what, I don’t have a version and I didn’t claim to have one.

Instead, what I wrote is simply the received tradition of Benin history as published by professional historians.

And it states unequivocally that the Binis’ “Oghene” is the “Ooni” (of Ife).

It is my pleasure to pitch you (and your version) against the received traditions of Benin history as published by actual historians.

Cheers!
————————-
Modified:
Where did you get the idea from that certain kings of Benin worship the kings of Ife every morning?

Fezz:


Why do you look at this story from only one angle (myopic). From the benin version, Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) the fugitive benin prince was made king in ile-ife. His son oranmiyan was sent to rule his ancestry land, which means that oranmiyan and his son eweka are still benin princes.

In addition it also means that all royal stools in Yoruba land are connected to benin lineage because the yoruba royalties claim Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) as their father.

If you want to be diplomatic about this, I suggest you just stop arguing about this topic because there is no conclusive answer to this mystery.

Whether Benin prince or yoruba prince, the point is that since both agreed to existence of single entity then u all are blood.

Yorubas and Edos are same people whether the prince is from Bini or Ife.

As far as both agreed to a prince existing them case closed.

Benin is what people use to sell their stories/history, take Benin out of this or any other history thread and see how the thread will die a natural death. Once Benin is mentioned in conjunction to any tribe history, all the excitement begins and emotions will be running high, yet someone somehow thinks the Benin will feel inferior for this.

Benin generates excitement that people just can't ignore that is why people always find a way to link Benin to their thread, no matter how absurd and senseless their linkages maybe.

Someone is already telling us that Zik's book was quoted out of context, how do you qoute a book whose passages were written verbatim out of context .

samuk:


You have said it all.

Jealousy boils hot in the veins of these people. The problem of the black race: can't stand to see his neighbour archiving any sort of success.

Truthshots:


Jealousy boils hot in the veins of these people. The problem of the black race: can't stand to see his neighbour archiving any sort of success.

Benin eyewitness documented history will always be 400 years ahead of our jealous neighbours, there is nothing they can do about this, all the concoctions, and fabrications in this world can't change this.

Juliusmalema:



Whether Benin prince or yoruba prince, the point is that since both agreed to existence of single entity then u all are blood.

Yorubas and Edos are same people whether the prince is from Bini or Ife.

As far as both agreed to a prince existing them case closed.

This perceived agreement only occurred in the 1800s and was purely political arrangement that wasn't based on history. There were no such agreements in the previous 400 years (1400s -1799).

I am ready to offer $10,000 US dollars to anyone that can show us where Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were written in Benin documented history before 1799.

Truthshots:
The problem which history faces in Africa, and Nigeria to a greater extent, is politicization. People think their ethnic group stands to gain something by distorting history.
I don't see any reason why anybody in southern Nigeria should even compete with Benin. It is a no contest. Benin empire was one of the very few empires in Africa.
In the whole Nigeria, no Kingdom or empire compared to Benin in history length, military might, exposure to the outside world, architecture, technology, art...

I know this hurts the egos of some people who were under the illusion that the greatness of their history was a direct correlation of their abilities to make huge amounts of babies like factories produce cars.

You are absolutely right and I agree with your points. But truth be told, benin kingdom didn't act fast enough to unit its people after colonialization of Nigeria. People think the edo people are depopularized, but I don't really see it that way.

There was a major divide of edoid people after the British came into the country. The brits main agender was to take away power from the benin Kingdom and hence they broke the tribe down to the bearest minimum and also took away all other tribes that paid tributes to the benin Kingdom.

The only way forward now is for the highest authority in South south region to unit all tribes and ethnic groups to come together under one umbrella because the truth is that 85% of South south indigens come from one stock which is pa Idu.

I would suggest the oba of benin is in the best position to unit all tribes in edo, delta, bayesla, rivers etc. Once this is done the south south will never see themselves as a minority anymore.

All tribes and ethnic groups in South south have to do away with their pride and come together under a spiritual leader (oba of benin) in my opinion, and choose a particular language as the general language to be spoken in the region. This does not mean that old languages wont be practiced as well. Unity is the key to achieving greatness in South south, if not, these major tribes will tear the south south apart once the divide comes.

samuk:
This perceived agreement only occurred in the 1800s. There were no such agreements in the previous 400 years (1400s -1799).

I have disgraced you repeatedly on this.

The actual agreement exists and can be seen in different hard evidence some of which dates to the c. 1300.

You were already debunked (as fraud or ignoramus) on this.

I am ready to offer $10,000 US dollars to anyone that can show us where Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were written in Benin documented history before 1799.

Just as I would offer you times 2 of that (i.e. $20,000 US dollars) if you can show me where any of the following supposed Benin obas were written in Benin documented history before 1850.

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Ehenmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua I, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.
————————

However, EuRoPeAnS tHat sTudY BeNiN hIsToRy fOuNd nO hIsToRiCaL connection LiNkInG bEnIN hIsToRy wItH any of the above-listed names iN tHe FiRsT 400 yEaRs (1400s - 1800s) oF EuRoPeAnS eYeWiTnEsS dOcUmEnTaTiOn oF BeNiN hIsToRy.

TAO11:
Lol.

Summary of your comment:

Fezz: real history is better than folklore.

Also Fezz: [proceeds immediately to bombard me with folklore and folklore alone]

LMAO!

Ironicaly, historians of pre-colonial Benin concedes based on information from Benin court that the Binis’ “Oghene” is one and the same thing as the Ooni (of Ife).

Oghene of Uhe was the exact words used and not (Ooni of ife)... point of correction.

I am still waiting for the Benin eyewitness historical documents between 1400 to 1799 that mentioned Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan specifically in relation to Benin. Anyone can dig up any dirt and create a story around such debris in the name of archaeology.

Benin Eyewitness historical documents exist from 1400s to 1799, show me Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in any of them. Lagos was mentioned from 1602 but not Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.

Fezz:


Oghene of Uhe was the exact words used and not (Ooni of ife)... point of correction.

Are you saying that Oghene of Uhe was the exact words used in the account of morning worship by Benin kings?? Make sure to answer this question.


Moreover, I was simply enlightening you that your so-called personal version is in contradiction with reality.

The Benin reality is the received traditions of Benin history as published by actual historians.

And it states that the “Oghene” (n’Uhe) is equivalent to the “Ooni” (of Ife).

Cheers.

Juliusmalema:



Whether Benin prince or yoruba prince, the point is that since both agreed to existence of single entity then u all are blood.

Yorubas and Edos are same people whether the prince is from Bini or Ife.

As far as both agreed to a prince existing them case closed.

If that's the case it means yoruba royal stools should be under the oba of benins stool. Therefore, the yorubas should stop claiming that the binis royalty originated from them. That is utter fallacy

samuk:


This perceived agreement only occurred in the 1800s and was purely political arrangement that wasn't based on history. There were no such agreements in the previous 400 years (1400s -1799).

I am ready to offer $10,000 US dollars to anyone that can show us where Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan were written in Benin documented history before 1799.

Nicely said, but can I ask you one question. If Oranmiyan was made up, who was the first oba ofor Benin and where did he come from? I want to learn something new from you

TAO11:
Are you saying that Oghene of Uhe was the exact words used in the account of morning worship by Benin kings?? Make sure to answer this question.


Moreover, I was simply enlightening you that your so-called personal version is in contradiction with reality.

The Benin reality is the received traditions of Benin history as published by actual historians.

And it states that the “Oghene” (n’Uhe) is equivalent to the “Ooni” (of Ife).

Cheers.

Yes, it's actually Oghene” (n’Uhe)... but this tale is actually connected to the pre-historic Uhe located in (present day kogi) and not the present day ile-Ife. That is my point and I won't say anything more in respect to this.

samuk:
[s]I am still waiting for the Benin eyewitness historical documents between 1400 to 1799 that mentioned Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan specifically in relation to Benin. Anyone can dig up any dirt and create a story around such debris in the name of archaeology.

Benin Eyewitness historical documents exist from 1400s to 1799, show me Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan in any of them. Lagos was mentioned from 1602 but not Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan.[/s]

Just as I am still waiting for the Benin eyewitness historical documents between 1400 to 1850 that mention the name of ANY of the following supposed obas of Benin:

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Ehenmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua I, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.

—————————-
These Europeans supposedly met with Benin kings from Ewuare I to Osemwende — NOT Ife kings.

Also, they didn’t visit Benin yet during Oranmiyan’s or Oduduwa’s reigns.

Yet, our retar.ded friend is NOT worried over why there are no records AT ALL of the names of ANY of these supposed Benin obas whom the Europeans must have actually met in person during their visits.

Wonderful!

Fezz:


Nicely said, but can I ask you one question. If Oranmiyan was made up, who was the first oba ofor Benin and where did he come from? I want to learn something new from you

That information is only available to God almighty. Because no eyewitness to the coronation of the first Oba of Benin left any notes (it is possible that the coronation took place thousands of years ago by the way). The only information available to mankind is the name of the first Oba of Benin who was recorded on paper by eyewitnesses.Though it seems weird to ask where the first king of an independent Kingdom came from. The best guess would be the kingdom itself.
But I know, Nigerians have a logics different from that of the rest of the world.

Fezz:
Yes, it's actually Oghene” (n’Uhe)...

FALSE!

That account of morning supplication actually spells out the Ooni of Ife.

I have the exact quotation of the custom. The specific wording used is “Oni of Ife”.

••• but this tale is actually connected to the pre-historic Uhe located in (present day kogi) and not the present day ile-Ife. That is my point and I won't say anything more in respect to this.

But when would you learn that your personal tales and wishes do not count?

What counts, instead, as I have repeatedly enlightened you is the received tradition of Benin history.

And it states, as published by actual historians, that the “Oghene” (n’Uhe) is none other than the “Ooni” (of Ife).

Truthshots:


That information is only available to God almighty. Because no eyewitness to the coronation of the first Oba of Benin left any notes (it is possible that the coronation took place thousands of years ago by the way). The only information available to mankind is the name of the first Oba of Benin who was recorded on paper by eyewitnesses.Though it seems weird to ask where the first king of a Kingdom came from. The best guess would be the kingdom itself.
But I know, Nigerians have a different logics from the rest of the world.

I asked the question because it is recorded that there was the era of the ogiso before the oba title came in.

Fezz:


I asked the question because it is recorded that there was the era of the ogiso before the oba title came in.

Ogiso is just another fairytale like oduduwa and oranmiyan. You are confusing stories with history.

Fezz:


Nicely said, but can I ask you one question. If Oranmiyan was made up, who was the first oba ofor Benin and where did he come from? I want to learn something new from you

The official Benin historical version takes you through Pa Idu to the Ogisos but because nothing was written down then, most of us have started examining the history of Benin starting from what is known and working our ways backward to antiquity.

The European helped Benin history because from the 1400s when they first arrived Benin, they started documenting all aspects of our history, from the 1400s several Europeans visited Benin with some of them even staying for years, so Benin history from 1400s is very well established.

1400s backward before the Europeans arrived is in antiquity that are still being study.

If Benin had any relationship with Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan, the Europeans wouldn't have missed this aspect of Benin history, they would have written it down. For example, Benin annexation of Lagos was documented by a Dutch man who witnessed Benin presence and preeminence over Lagos in 1603.

When the Benin/Ife relationship surfaced in late 1800s, the Europeans who have been studying and writing Benin history for 400 years were the first to question the authenticity of such relationship because there was nothing of such prior to 1800s.

In trying to answer your question, we must first disprove latter day fallacy which Benin/Ife story is.

Benin/Ife relationship is nothing but political agreement between Benin and Yoruba after British conquest of the Benin empire.

Benin/Ife relationship is akin to how all Nigerians were forced together to become one, the reason the country went into civil war just 7 years after the British left.

Truthshots:

Ogiso is just another fairytale like oduduwa and oranmiyan. You are confusing stories with history.

Lool... wooooow

Truthshots:

Ogiso is just another fairytale like oduduwa and oranmiyan. You are confusing stories with history.

You need historic backup to such stories though.. for people to believe this you need to provide proof. A lot of people believe in the ogisos, so it will be really good if there is evidence to this point you are making.

I understand that the likes of oduduwa and oranmiyan can be made up for political reasons.. but ogisos is at the heart of Benin Kingdom history. It will be difficult to shove this one off though.

Fezz:


You need historic backup to such stories though.. for people to believe this you need to provide proof. A lot of people believe in the ogisos, so it will be really good if there is evidence to this point you are making.

I understand that the likes of oduduwa and oranmiyan can be made up for political reasons.. but ogisos is at the heart of Benin Kingdom history. It will be difficult to shove this one off though.

My proof: ogiso, oduduwa, oranmiyan and co are not backed by any eyewitness written document.
(I come from a scientific background, so I see things rationally. The fact some people believe in a story doesn't translate to the truthfulness of the story. The story being backed by proof, is what makes it true)

samuk:


The official Benin historical version takes you through Pa Idu to the Ogisos but because nothing was written down then, most of us have started examining the history of Benin starting from what is known and working our ways backward to antiquity.

The European helped Benin history because from the 1400s when they first arrived Benin, they started documenting all aspects of our history, from the 1400s several Europeans visited Benin with some of them even staying for years, so Benin history from 1400s is very well established.

1400s backward before the Europeans arrived is in antiquity that are still being study.

If Benin had any relationship with Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan, the Europeans wouldn't have missed this aspect of Benin history, they would have written it down. For example, Benin annexation of Lagos was documented by a Dutch man who witnessed Benin presence and preeminence over Lagos in 1603.

When the Benin/Ife relationship surfaced in late 1800s, the Europeans who have been studying and writing Benin history for 400 years were the first to question the authenticity of such relationship because there was nothing of such prior to 1800s.

In trying to answer your question, we must first disprove latter day fallacy which Benin/Ife story is.

Benin/Ife relationship is nothing but political agreement between Benin and Yoruba after British conquest of the Benin empire.

Benin/Ife relationship is akin to how all Nigerians were forced together to become one, the reason the country went into civil war just 7 years after the British left.

Hmmm, you are making good points and I agree with you here. It's quite hard to imagine that no account of benin/Ife relationship was penned down by the Europeans for 400 years. That's a long time Bro, especially in the context that Ife was assumed to be a major Kingdom at that time. This raises a lot of questions as regards to the authenticity of benin/Ife connection.

Not too long ago everybody thought the earth was flat...

Fezz:
Lool... wooooow

Let me summarize your brothers’ brainwashing baptism (which you’re about to experience) to you:

(1) You must reject Ogiso — because if you don’t, the Yorubas would convince you with the truth along the lines that if obaship was always a Benin thing why then the need for a change of title.

(2) You must reject the name Igodomigido — because if you don’t, the Yorubas would convince with truth along the lines that if Benin wasn’t a foreign name later imposed by the Yorubas why the change of name.

(3) You must reject Oduduwa and Oranmiyan — because if you don’t, the Yorubas would make you realize that historians have debunked the idea that Ekalderhan is Oduduwa; and you will be left with the only truth that Oduduwa is not related to the Edos.

(4) You must reject anything that has to do with Ife — because if you don’t, you would be forced to accept the fact and truth that Benin kingdom is a descendant kingdom from Ife (which is the classical received account originally collected from the royal court of Benin kingdom).

(5) You must reject the names of all Benin kings from Eweka I to Osemwende because people didn’t write them down; and as such the Benin royalty and citizens must all have agreed recently to forge these names because the original true names of the kings (which were passed on to them from successive generations) didn’t sound cute enough.

—————————-
In other words, you become stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.