TAO11:
Thanks for those additions — particularly the first two, viz. “ì mú ni tì” and “ìdọ̀tí”.

Regarding the last two, I am not sure what Yoruba word you mean by “Oke”? And how does it mean the same thing as the English word “Okay” (OK)?

Also, “iṣu” is the Yoruba word for “yam”, not “iyán”. I could swear you know this.

“Iyán” means “pounded (cooked) yam”. No Yoruba man would see “yam” and call it “iyan”. Never!

Furthermore, who said “yam” came from “iyan”? I’m curious.

In any case, the point I was making with that listing remains that:

The “closeness in sound (and even in meaning too) of two expressions or words (each from a different language) does not lead to the conclusion that one of these is necessarily from the other. ••• These are known as ‘coincidences’ in linguistics, and you will certainly find one or more of such instances in any two languages you scrutinize.”

Moreover, Yoruba language is a Volta-Niger language in
the family of languages named Niger-Congo.

English language, instead, is an Anglic language in the family of languages named Indo-European.

These two families are linguistically unrelated.

Cheers!

Thanks for corrections

Oke as in Up or when things are going higher, OK in English as in things are going well


I read somewhere that European Sailors pronounced Iyan which they were generously offered in Lagos as something like Yam

Christistruth00:
Thanks for corrections

No problem sir.

Oke as in Up or when things are going higher, OK in English as in things are going well

This is a distortion actually. At best, it is a wrong stretch of the imagination.

The English word “okay” [“ok”] simply means “all right,” “fine,” “authorize,” or “approval” depending on context.

The Yoruba word “òkè,” on the other hand, simply means “up,” “above,” “hill,” etc.

To assert that “okay” is ‘equivalent’ to “òkè” [“up”] is to assert that “okay” is, at least, a synonym for “up”.

The foregoing acid-test is straightforward, and it is clear that “okay” is not even synonymous to “up” [“òkè”].

I read somewhere that European Sailors pronounced Iyan which they were generously offered in Lagos as something like Yam

The attachments here do not support the claim here.

The first (Wikipedia) attachment claims that the English word “yam” derived from the Portuguese “inhame”.

The same attachment claims it may have derived from the Spanish “ñame” which itself is said to have come from certain (unspecified) West African languages.

The second attachment (which is the same as the third) mentions that it derived from the word “nyami” which is said to be an African word.

The African language hinted above is unspecified, but it is clearly not Yoruba language since “nyami” is clearly not a Yoruba word.

The story that certain Yorubas offered a meal of iyán (i.e. pounded yam) to European sailors is not supported by these attachments.

And even if this was the actual case (unsubstantiated though), it still fails to prove the amateurish/false notion that Yoruba and English are linguistically related.

In Sum:

[okay] English: ‘okay’ | [ó dáa] Yoruba: ‘okay’

[yam] English: ‘yam’ | [iṣu] Yoruba: ‘yam’


Cheers!

It is unfair to disparage Zik for the version of his history of Onitsha written in 1970. Those that are quick to tell us that there is no historical links between Benin and Onitsha for such historical accounts to be plausible also forget that despite the fact that the Europeans that study Benin history found no historical links or customs or traditions linking Benin with Ife in the first 400 years (1400s - 1800s) of European eyewitness documentation of of Benin history, yet some still hold on to this Benin/Ife connection that has no historical backing earlier than the 1800s as historical truth.

What is sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander.

It's hypocrisy for a Yoruba person who is ready to go to Mars and concoct all manners of names just to link Ife to ancient Benin to turn around and attempt to disprove Zik's historical accounts. I can understand such from Igbo person. The Yoruba can't be desperately linking Ife to Benin whilst at the same time making attempts to disprove the claims to Benin by other tribes, no one single tribe own the monopoly to Benin relationship/connections, ancient Benin is for all to share.

Benin/Ife relationship was created in late 1800s, Zik's Benin/Onitsha relationship was written in the 1900s and Benin and several other communities relationship across southern and Northern Nigeria are still being written and more are yet to be written, the reason being that Benin was one of the major cultural, political, military and economic centres of ancient west Africa and the most significant in the Nigeria area for centuries.

To those that continue to tell us without showing us how Zik wrote something different 40 years earlier, that version that is alleged or suggested to contradict later version of Zik's history of his Onitsha people should also be put out for all to examine.

All versions of historical accounts should be put out there for all to examine.

History of Onitsha According to - Nnamdi Azikiwe-
Prior to Nigerian independence in 1960 they were known not to have kings except perhaps for the Obi (from Oba: king) of Onitsha, hence the common saying: "Ibo enwero eze" (the Igbo has no king). Individual towns, clans and families see themselves as independent as they are very clannish. They are also known to look down on other peoples, hardly integrating with their hosts though also feigning friendliness. Not surprisingly foreigners see little motivation in investing and residing in their homeland. Indeed the name of one of their most prominent settlements, Onitsha, is said to be derived from Onini (to despise) and Ncha (others), meaning "one who despises others." Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, former Nigerian president and Igbo leader, even described the attitude as supercilious.

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha."
SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4
http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/75723-meaning-history-onitsha.html


"I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD.
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5

"One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins, "

"I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu, , " "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc,
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p 11 - 12

[s]

samuk:
It is unfair to disparage Zik for the version of his history of Onitsha written in 1970. Those that are quick to tell us that there is no historical links between Benin and Onitsha for such historical accounts to be plausible also forget that despite the fact that the Europeans that study Benin history found no historical links or customs or traditions linking Benin with Ife in the first 400 years (1400s - 1800s) of European eyewitness documentation of of Benin history, yet some still hold on to this Benin/Ife connection that has no historical backing earlier than the 1800s as historical truth.

What is sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander.

Benin/Ife relationship was created in late 1800s, Zik's Benin/Onitsha relationship was written in the 1900s and Benin and several other communities relationship are still being written and yet to be written.

All versions of historical accounts should be put out there for all to examine.

History of Onitsha According to - Nnamdi Azikiwe-
Prior to Nigerian independence in 1960 they were known not to have kings except perhaps for the Obi (from Oba: king) of Onitsha, hence the common saying: "Ibo enwero eze" (the Igbo has no king). Individual towns, clans and families see themselves as independent as they are very clannish. They are also known to look down on other peoples, hardly integrating with their hosts though also feigning friendliness. Not surprisingly foreigners see little motivation in investing and residing in their homeland. Indeed the name of one of their most prominent settlements, Onitsha, is said to be derived from Onini (to despise) and Ncha (others), meaning "one who despises others." Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, former Nigerian president and Igbo leader, even described the attitude as supercilious.

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha."
SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4
http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/75723-meaning-history-onitsha.html


"I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD.
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5

"One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins, "

"I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu, , " "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc,
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p 11 - 12

[/s] Until you bini inferior minor tribe can prove that "Eze chima" is a bini name there really is no need to engage you, Onitsha people have since recognised the folly of there half baked Bini story and have chosen not to push it anymore, but bini minority looking for numbers wont rest, just one quarter in onitsha is more than the whole bini population

Obalatule:
[s][/s] Until you bini inferior minor tribe can prove that "Eze chima" is a bini name there really is no need to engage you, Onitsha people have since recognised the folly of there half baked Bini story and have chosen not to push it anymore, but bini minority looking for numbers wont rest, just one quarter in onitsha is more than the whole bini population

Benin did not write any version of Onitsha history. Take you frustration to Zik wherever he is and argue with him.

[s]

samuk:


Benin did not write any version of Onitsha history. Take you frustration to Zik wherever he is.

[/s] You are the frustrated person here, you are also Delusional if you can't lay claim to igbanke people who are pretty much an igbo community under your nose in edo state but jump all the way across the Niger to Onitsha

Obalatule:
[s][/s] You are the frustrated person here, you are also Delusional if you can't lay claim to igbanke people who are pretty much an igbo community under your nose in edo state but jump all the way across the Niger to Onitsha

Benin don't lay claim to anyone. It's the other way round. All we do is to simply acknowledge those that lay claims to Benin, nothing more. I am yet to see the version of Onitsha history that was written by Benin, if you have it, kindly share for all to read.

samuk:


Benin don't lay claim to anyone. It's the other way round. I am yet to see the version of Onitsha history that was written by Benin, if you have it, kindly share for all to read.

Onitsha people are not bini people genetically, linguistically or otherwise, They were in bini as many other igbos of the western Niger until it wasn't conducive again and they left.

Stop shamelessly twisting their stories of coming from bini to mean they are your kin

samuk:


Benin don't lay claim to anyone. It's the other way round. All we do is to simply acknowledge those that lay claims to Benin, nothing more. I am yet to see the version of Onitsha history that was written by Benin, if you have it, kindly share for all to read.

There is nothing to acknowledge bros, they didn't claim to be bini people neither did they claim to be related to bini, just that they arrived where they are from bini and you are acknowledging ......If thats not inferiority complex what is?

Obalatule:
Onitsha people are not bini people genetically, linguistically or otherwise, They were in bini as many other igbos of the western Niger until it wasn't conducive again and they left.

Stop shamelessly twisting their stories of coming from bini to mean they are your kin

Let me once again pretend that you don't have problems with English comprehension. I asked again, could you show the readers where/how any Benin person including myself twisted or wrote the history of Onitsha or any other Igbo community for that Matter.

Let me warn you that each of your reply actually reveals whether you have anything other than insults in your brain.

samuk:


Benin don't lay claim to anyone. It's the other way round. All we do is to simply acknowledge those that lay claims to Benin, nothing more. I am yet to see the version of Onitsha history that was written by Benin, if you have it, kindly share for all to read.

Onitsha speak one of the most refined igbo dailect, no trace of bini anywhere if not for few titles like iyasele which was borrowed.

Infact igala has more reasons to be acknowledging Onitsha people owing to early contact and some intermarriages between the two groups

Obalatule:
Onitsha speak one of the most refined igbo dailect, no trace of bini anywhere if not for few titles like iyasele which was borrowed.

Infact igala has more reasons to be acknowledging Onitsha people owing to early contact and some intermarriages between the two groups

You are a complete waste of time, you can not comprehend simple question put to you.

samuk:


Let me once again pretend that you don't have problems with English comprehension. I asked again, could you show the readers where/how any Benin person including myself twisted or wrote the history of Onitsha or any other Igbo community for that Matter.

The Op and this topic is a very good example, Be content in your 2×2 kingdom and hope a time never comes when ethnic numberical strength will determine any tribes survival, Stop clowning around acknowledging......mega tribes have since been formed and consolidated a century ago, if you are just waking up then you can go back to sleep

[s]

samuk:


You are a complete waste of time, you can not comprehend simple question put to you.

[/s] The whole bini people are a complete waste of time if they think now is the time to be acknowledging ..... people that dont speak a single edo word you are going Around acknowledging them hoping they will come to bini and bow to your king and say " Oba ga ta kpee" or whatever Bullcrap you say, You lots are suffering from inferiority complex mixed with delusions

Obalatule:
[s][/s] The whole bini people are a complete waste of time if they think now is the time to be acknowledging ..... people that dont speak a single edo word you are going Around acknowledging them hoping they will come to bini and bow to your king and say " Oba ga ta kpee" or whatever Bullcrap you say, You lots are suffering from inferiority complex mixed with delusions

Guy, you are worst than the comical "adjectiver Brother Shagi" go and look for your mate to engage. It will require a Yoruba interpreter to engage you further.

[s]

samuk:


Let me once again pretend that you don't have problems with English comprehension. I asked again, could you show the readers where/how any Benin person including myself twisted or wrote the history of Onitsha or any other Igbo community for that Matter.

Let me warn you that each of your reply actually reveals whether you have anything other than insults in your brain.

[/s] No one is insulting you, just that you need to have a little shame and stop running around with unverified bullcrap

samuk:


Guy, you are worst than the comical "adjectiver Brother Shagi" go and look for your mate to engage. It will require a Yoruba interpreter to engage you further.

Your bini people are the real comedians with your "Acknowledging" drive ......Ndi acknowledging

You are not free from yoruba people that are bent on absorbing the whole edo into yoruba with their ife story but you want to be acknowledging people all the way in onitsha

Obalatule:
Your bini people are the real comedians with your "Acknowledging" drive ......Ndi acknowledging

You are not free from yoruba people that are bent on absorbing the whole edo into yoruba with their ife story but you want to be acknowledging people all the way in onitsha

The very fact that the Yorubas are trying to claim or absorb Benin shows how successful Benin was in the past. Success have many friends and families all over the place while failure is an orphan.

Various tribes laying claims to Benin is thing of pride to us and hope you can now see why your label of inferiority complex doesn't hold water before any Benin person. How will a Benin person feel inferior when all historical roots and roads leads to Benin.

Very few tribes can write their history without the mention of Benin and in most cases such history without Benin doesn't get much attention or even noticed.

[s]

samuk:


The very fact that the Yorubas are trying to claim or absorb Benin shows how successful Benin was in the past. Success have many friends and families all over the place while failure is an orphan.

Various tribes laying claims to Benin is thing of pride to us and hope you can now see why your label of inferiority complex doesn't hold water before any Benin person. How will a Benin person feel inferior when all historical roots and roads leads to Benin.

Very few tribes can write their history without the mention of Benin and in most cases such history without Benin doesn't get much attention or even noticed.

[/s] keep this balderdash to yourself, "Mr Acknowledging"

samuk:
••• Europeans that study Benin history found no historical links or customs or traditions linking Benin with Ife in the first 400 years (1400s - 1800s) of European eyewitness documentation of of Benin history, •••

Benin history claims that the following individuals are some of the obas who ruled Benin kingdom from the start to the middle of the 1800s:

Eweka I, Uwuakhuahen, Ehenmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Udagbedo, Ohen, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifiokun, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, Ehengbuda, Ohuan, Ohenzae, Akenkpaye, Akengbedo, Ore-Oghene, Ewuakpe, Ozuere, Akenzua I, Eresoyen, Akengbuda, Obanosa, Ogbebo, and Osemwende.

However, EuRoPeAnS tHat sTudY BeNiN hIsToRy fOuNd nO hIsToRiCaL connection LiNkInG bEnIN hIsToRy wItH any of the above-listed names iN tHe FiRsT 400 yEaRs (1400s - 1800s) oF EuRoPeAnS eYeWiTnEsS dOcUmEnTaTiOn oF BeNiN hIsToRy.

In other words, read up on what is called argumentum ex-silentio and thank me later. Insecure fraudulent otondo.

Having debunked that, kindly refer to the links below for two distinct hard evidence of the Ife-Benin connection dating to c.1600 and c.1300 respectively.

(1) https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798

(2) https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726

••• Benin/Ife relationship was created in late 1800s,

cReAtEd ?? Wonderful!!

Did you mean to say that the relationship was forged by Benin court historians just for the purpose of elevating Benin kingdom to the coveted status of a descendant kingdom from Ife ??

Yes, it was your own Bini people who adamantly insisted to the Europeans that the patrilineal ancestor of Benin kings is a Yoruba man from Ife.

•••Zik's Benin/Onitsha relationship was written in the 1900s

Oh, this time around it is “written” not cReAtEd — despite being relatively late. LOL!

Your natural Bini insecurity must have hit an all-time high as at the time you were typing this crap. LMAO!

Wait! What about you maintain the same energy as you did earlier, and write that:

The EuRoPeAnS tHat sTudY BeNiN hIsToRy fOuNd nO hIsToRiCaL LiNks oR cUsToMs oR tRaDiTiOnS LiNkInG bEnIN hIsToRy wItH ONITSHA iN tHe FiRsT 400 yEaRs (1400s - 1800s) oF EuRoPeAnS eYeWiTnEsS dOcUmEnTaTiOn oF BeNiN hIsToRy ??

Why not be consistent with your own kindergarten and retar.ded logic?

Yes, I know your fears, inferiority complex, and insecurity won’t let you be consistent?

Cheers!

Cc: Obalatule, RedboneSmith

Christistruth00:



More Yoruba Words with Similar English sounds and meanings

Immunity. E mu ni ti

Dirt. Idoti

OK. Oke

Yam. Iyan. ( Though some say Yam actually came from Iyan)

English's Ok. is abbr. for okay and became loaned into Yoruba's lexicon as same. The same way Arabic words entered as loaned and shared words with Yoruba's. It is important to emphasise here that in 1939, the word okay became accepted in America for ‘oll Korect' in a tabloid printed in March 1939, which is written in British's English as ‘all correct'. This is how that word became American's English and accepted worldwide.

Meanwhile British's English's words such as ,iron,me,in
ruin, yawn,gay, marshal, rich etc are derived from classic Hebrew's language. And these words are Mesopotamia in origin, which are found also Yoruba's and it is not a fluke at all. Dirt is loaned from English's into Yoruba's lexicon as idoti!

Igbo's bia
Arabic's ba(a)
* Ethiopic's ba *
Yoruba's bò(mobo)(bowa/boa)
Hebrew's bo(mobo)(boa)
The above words found across these languages and more means come,



Cheers

samuk:
[s]It is unfair to disparage Zik for the version of his history of Onitsha written in 1970. Those that are quick to tell us that there is no historical links between Benin and Onitsha for such historical accounts to be plausible also forget that despite the fact that the Europeans that study Benin history found no historical links or customs or traditions linking Benin with Ife in the first 400 years (1400s - 1800s) of European eyewitness documentation of of Benin history, yet some still hold on to this Benin/Ife connection that has no historical backing earlier than the 1800s as historical truth.[/s]

[s]What is sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander.[s]

It's hypocrisy for a Yoruba person who is ready to go to Mars and concoct all manners of names just to link Ife to ancient Benin to turn around and attempt to disprove Zik's historical accounts. I can understand such from Igbo person. The Yoruba can't be desperately linking Ife to Benin whilst at the same time making attempts to disprove the claims to Benin by other tribes, no one single tribe own the monopoly to Benin relationship/connections, ancient Benin is for all to share.

Benin/Ife relationship was created in late 1800s, Zik's Benin/Onitsha relationship was written in the 1900s and Benin and several other communities relationship across southern and Northern Nigeria are still being written and more are yet to be written, the reason being that Benin was one of the major cultural, political, military and economic centres of ancient west Africa and the most significant in the Nigeria area for centuries.

To those that continue to tell us without showing us how Zik wrote something different 40 years earlier, that version that is alleged or suggested to contradict later version of Zik's history of his Onitsha people should also be put out for all to examine.

All versions of historical accounts should be put out there for all to examine.

History of Onitsha According to - Nnamdi Azikiwe-
Prior to Nigerian independence in 1960 they were known not to have kings except perhaps for the Obi (from Oba: king) of Onitsha, hence the common saying: "Ibo enwero eze" (the Igbo has no king). Individual towns, clans and families see themselves as independent as they are very clannish. They are also known to look down on other peoples, hardly integrating with their hosts though also feigning friendliness. Not surprisingly foreigners see little motivation in investing and residing in their homeland. Indeed the name of one of their most prominent settlements, Onitsha, is said to be derived from Onini (to despise) and Ncha (others), meaning "one who despises others." Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, former Nigerian president and Igbo leader, even described the attitude as supercilious.

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha."
SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4
http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/75723-meaning-history-onitsha.html


"I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD.
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5

"One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins, "

"I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu, , " "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc,
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p 11 - 12

There is no historical appreciation between benin and Onitsha infact the whole Igboland but there exist facts of historical appreciation between benin and Ife...with clear evidences at sight.

Oba as title and names including communities.

Zik was quoted out of context and as such there is no link between benin and Onitsha but such can't be said if Benin and ife because binis as a whole are Yoruba people and vice versa.

Moreover there is no hypocrisy because yorubas are telling you guys who u are.

samuk:
It is unfair to disparage Zik for the version of his history of Onitsha written in 1970. Those that are quick to tell us that there is no historical links between Benin and Onitsha for such historical accounts to be plausible also forget that despite the fact that the Europeans that study Benin history found no historical links or customs or traditions linking Benin with Ife in the first 400 years (1400s - 1800s) of European eyewitness documentation of of Benin history, yet some still hold on to this Benin/Ife connection that has no historical backing earlier than the 1800s as historical truth.

What is sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander.

It's hypocrisy for a Yoruba person who is ready to go to Mars and concoct all manners of names just to link Ife to ancient Benin to turn around and attempt to disprove Zik's historical accounts. I can understand such from Igbo person. The Yoruba can't be desperately linking Ife to Benin whilst at the same time making attempts to disprove the claims to Benin by other tribes, no one single tribe own the monopoly to Benin relationship/connections, ancient Benin is for all to share.

Benin/Ife relationship was created in late 1800s, Zik's Benin/Onitsha relationship was written in the 1900s and Benin and several other communities relationship across southern and Northern Nigeria are still being written and more are yet to be written, the reason being that Benin was one of the major cultural, political, military and economic centres of ancient west Africa and the most significant in the Nigeria area for centuries.

To those that continue to tell us without showing us how Zik wrote something different 40 years earlier, that version that is alleged or suggested to contradict later version of Zik's history of his Onitsha people should also be put out for all to examine.

All versions of historical accounts should be put out there for all to examine.

History of Onitsha According to - Nnamdi Azikiwe-
Prior to Nigerian independence in 1960 they were known not to have kings except perhaps for the Obi (from Oba: king) of Onitsha, hence the common saying: "Ibo enwero eze" (the Igbo has no king). Individual towns, clans and families see themselves as independent as they are very clannish. They are also known to look down on other peoples, hardly integrating with their hosts though also feigning friendliness. Not surprisingly foreigners see little motivation in investing and residing in their homeland. Indeed the name of one of their most prominent settlements, Onitsha, is said to be derived from Onini (to despise) and Ncha (others), meaning "one who despises others." Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, former Nigerian president and Igbo leader, even described the attitude as supercilious.

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha."
SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4
http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/75723-meaning-history-onitsha.html


"I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD.
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5

"One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins, "

"I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu, , " "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc,
" SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p 11 - 12

Don't mind them, they are jealous, each time Benin history comes up in BBC or CNN, these jealous guys will show up online trying to vent their frustration on Benin, just ignore them.

TAO11:
Like I already noted in that same comment, it’s not my intuition alone that makes the supposed parallel a superficial and coincidental one.

I had noted (and I quote here again) that “there are other better reasons why there is no parallel at all.”

Some of these “other better reasons” are that:
(1) There is no substantive evidence to conclude that the indigenous people of Onitsha have Bini ancestry; or that Onitsha was ruled by Benin or a Bini.

The most one finds is identical cultural artifacts (which are plausibly indicative of mere cultural borrowing). One also finds certain information to the effect that:

(A) The Igbo people of Onitsha used to live within or around Benin city, but that they later drifted eastward from their initial/host community due to some turmoil.

This account by itself obviously proves nothing vis-a-vis a Bini ancestry of the Onitshas.

(B) The 1970s autobiography of Dr. Nnamdi Azikwe admits a royal Bini ancestry for the people of Onitsha.

This is non-conclusive (and suspiciously suggestive of his personal vainglory) for the very fact that this detail is contradicted by an historical essay compiled by the same author some forty years earlier.

(2) Even if we pretend (for the sake of argument) that the Igbo people of Onitsha have Bini ancestry (a claim for which there is zero substantive evidence), the Onitshas could not possibly have adopted the name “Ooni-‘risha” (on the assumption that “Onitsha” = “Ooni-‘risha” as you thought). They wouldn’t dare because even their alleged ancestors (the Binis of old) wouldn’t.

This becomes clearer on considering the fact that the present-day evolved Yoruba word “Ooni” is a cognate with the Bini word “Oghene” (which is the precise word used by the Binis of old in reference to the Ife monarch).

Just as the word “Ooni” signifies “Lord,” the Bini word “Oghene” (as used by the Binis of old for the monarch of Ife) similarly signifies “Great Lord”.

To the Binis of old, the Ife monarch is the great ancestral deity whose face you dare not behold let alone take on his title.

These foregoing reasons, I believe, explain why these two expressions appear to match, but the apparent matching is in fact due to mere coincidence.

In other words, these two expressions must be in relation to different things and as such have different significances.


I should add, as a side note here, that the closeness in sound (and even in meaning too) of two expressions or words (each from a different language) does not lead to the conclusion that one of these is necessarily from the other.

Consider the following pair of words from two unrelated languages, viz. English and Yoruba. It is interesting to note that not only do the corresponding words in a pair sound alike, they also have the same meanings.

[me] English: ‘me’ | [èmi] Yoruba: ‘me’

[yawn] English: ‘yawn’ | [yán] Yoruba: ‘yawn’

[ruin] English: ‘ruin’ | [rūn] Yoruba: ‘ruin’

[iron] English: ‘iron’ | [irin] Yoruba: ‘iron’

[in] English: ‘in’ | [inú] Yoruba: ‘in’

And so forth.

On the basis of these, shall we then conclude that one of the Yorubas or the English people actually descended from the other? Obviously not.

These are known as ‘coincidences’ in linguistics, and you will certainly find one or more of such instances in any two languages you scrutinize.

In sum then, ‘sound’ (or even ‘sound’ and ‘meaning’) isn’t a deciding factor of any ancestral connection as is the proven case here with “Ooni-‘risha” and “Onitsha”.

Cheers!

It seems you are vast in history but it amazes me how you haven't figured out the difference between uhe and ile-ife. You probaby need to read in between the lines when studying history. Secondly, you also need to decipher the difference between folklore and real history.

In regards to oghene in relation to the Ooni of ife I think you have gotten it all wrong and you have mixed up the time line of two different histories. Let me break it down for you below so you don't mix it up in future discuss.

Uhe, also known as ife in pre-historic days is totally different from the present day ile-ife. Oghene is linked to pre-historic Uhe and not the present day ile-ife. Oghene is the god that saved this people from perishing in the flood. Pa idu also known by lukumi tribe as the pre-historic oduduwa(originator of igodomigodo people) was known as the representative of oghene on earth.

He was the chief priest that United all the various clans together during the menacing flood that occurred during that era. The various clans revered him as a "god" because he saved them from the flood and they built an alter to honour him.

Uhe was located around present day niger-benue confluence. The various clans present at that time are lukumi tribe (yorubas), Idu's children (igodomigodo) and Ugbo clan(present day Igbo in ondo state). As soon as Pa idu died, his children which comprises of Igodomigodo descendants (Akka, efa and emehi) migrated to the present day igodomigodo (bendel state).

Lukumi clan (yorubas) also migrated later on and moved to the present day ile-ife. Various clans migrated from old Uhe to their present locations after the flood subsided and they went in search of better land.

During the early days of the oba dynasty in benin kingdom, the oba and his entourage used to journey once a year to the alter in old Uhe to pay their respect to the shrine of Oghene in old Uhe to honour him, but this practise stopped since pre-colonial days.

This is why it was stated by historians that oba of Benin prays to Oghene every morning once the sun rises. This practice had nothing to do with present day ile-ife or the Ooni of ife, rather it's directed towards pre-historic Uhe which is located around niger-benue confluence.

So please stop connecting Oghene to Ooni of ife because they are two different people. Pa Idu (oduduwa) was known as Oghene because he was his representative on earth.

Fezz:


It seems you are vast in history but it amazes me how you haven't figured out the difference between uhe and ile-ife. You probaby need to read in between the lines when studying history. Secondly, you also need to decipher the difference between folklore and real history.

In regards to oghene in relation to the Ooni of ife I think you have gotten it all wrong and you have mixed up the time line of two different histories. Let me break it down for you below so you don't mix it up in future discuss.

Uhe, also known as ife in pre-historic days is totally different from the present day ile-ife. Oghene is linked to pre-historic Uhe and not the present day ile-ife. Oghene is the god that saved this people from perishing in the flood. Pa idu also known by lukumi tribe as the pre-historic oduduwa(originator of igodomigodo people) was known as the representative of oghene on earth.

He was the chief priest that United all the various clans together during the menacing flood that occurred during that era. The various clans revered him as a "god" because he saved them from the flood and they built an alter to honour him.

Uhe was located around present day niger-benue confluence. The various clans present at that time are lukumi tribe (yorubas), Idu's children (igodomigodo) and Ugbo clan(present day Igbo in ondo state). As soon as Pa idu died, his children which comprises of Igodomigodo descendants (Akka, efa and emehi) migrated to the present day igodomigodo (bendel state).

Lukumi clan (yorubas) also migrated later on and moved to the present day ile-ife. Various clans migrated from old Uhe to their present locations after the flood subsided and they went in search of better land.

During the early days of the oba dynasty in benin kingdom, the oba and his entourage used to journey once a year to the alter in old Uhe to pay their respect to the shrine of Oghene in old Uhe to honour him, but this practise stopped since pre-colonial days.

This is why it was stated by historians that oba of Benin prays to Oghene every morning once the sun rises. This practice had nothing to do with present day ile-ife or the Ooni of ife, rather it's directed towards pre-historic Uhe which is located around niger-benue confluence.

So please stop connecting Oghene to Ooni of ife because they are two different people. Pa Idu (oduduwa) was known as Oghene because he was his representative on earth.

oghene is a fictional country born out of the imagination of hallucinating crusaders. The person whom you are replying was already informed of this simple fact, but that person choses to lie on purpose.
Look, that Tao is a troll and you guys should best ignore the troll. There was never any oghene. Don't discuss fairytales. Discuss facts. Yoruba have no history except from slavery in Brazil.

Conclusion : no oghene, no uhe...all fictional.

Germany is returning Benin artefacts !

https://lifestyle.thecable.ng/german-museum-to-return-looted-benin-kingdom-bronzes/

The problem which history faces in Africa, and Nigeria to a greater extent, is politicization. People think their ethnic group stands to gain something by distorting history.
I don't see any reason why anybody in southern Nigeria should even compete with Benin. It is a no contest. Benin empire was one of the very few empires in Africa.
In the whole Nigeria, no Kingdom or empire compared to Benin in history length, military might, exposure to the outside world, architecture, technology, art...

I know this hurts the egos of some people who were under the illusion that the greatness of their history was a direct correlation of their abilities to make huge amounts of babies like factories produce cars.

The only thing Benin didn't have was a written language which the Malian empire had already in the middle ages I think (to be verified).
Although, Malian written language was not indigenous like that of the Ethiopians, Mali got its written language from the Arabs or the Berber.

Truthshots:
oghene is a fictional country born out of the imagination of hallucinating crusaders. The person whom you are replying was already informed of this simple fact, but that person choses to lie on purpose.
Look, that Tao is a troll and you guys should best ignore the troll. There was never any oghene. Don't discuss fairytales. Discuss facts. Yoruba have no history except from slavery in Brazil.

Conclusion : no oghene, no uhe...all fictional.

Jude, you again?

I think it would be interesting to make a ranking of African empires.

To me, it would be like this:

1) Ethiopia
2) Benin
3) Mali
4) Toro

Fezz:
It seems you are vast in history but it amazes me how you haven't figured out the difference between uhe and ile-ife. You probaby need to read in between the lines when studying history. Secondly, you also need to decipher the difference between folklore and real history.

In regards to oghene in relation to the Ooni of ife I think you have gotten it all wrong and you have mixed up the time line of two different histories. Let me break it down for you below so you don't mix it up in future discuss.

Uhe, also known as ife in pre-historic days is totally different from the present day ile-ife. Oghene is linked to pre-historic Uhe and not the present day ile-ife. Oghene is the god that saved this people from perishing in the flood. Pa idu also known by lukumi tribe as the pre-historic oduduwa(originator of igodomigodo people) was known as the representative of oghene on earth.

He was the chief priest that United all the various clans together during the menacing flood that occurred during that era. The various clans revered him as a "god" because he saved them from the flood and they built an alter to honour him.

Uhe was located around present day niger-benue confluence. The various clans present at that time are lukumi tribe (yorubas), Idu's children (igodomigodo) and Ugbo clan(present day Igbo in ondo state). As soon as Pa idu died, his children which comprises of Igodomigodo descendants (Akka, efa and emehi) migrated to the present day igodomigodo (bendel state).

Lukumi clan (yorubas) also migrated later on and moved to the present day ile-ife. Various clans migrated from old Uhe to their present locations after the flood subsided and they went in search of better land.

During the early days of the oba dynasty in benin kingdom, the oba and his entourage used to journey once a year to the alter in old Uhe to pay their respect to the shrine of Oghene in old Uhe to honour him, but this practise stopped since pre-colonial days.

This is why it was stated by historians that oba of Benin prays to Oghene every morning once the sun rises. This practice had nothing to do with present day ile-ife or the Ooni of ife, rather it's directed towards pre-historic Uhe which is located around niger-benue confluence.

So please stop connecting Oghene to Ooni of ife because they are two different people. Pa Idu (oduduwa) was known as Oghene because he was his representative on earth.

Lol.

Summary of your comment:

Fezz: real history is better than folklore.

Also Fezz: [proceeds immediately to bombard me with folklore and folklore alone]

LMAO!

Ironicaly, historians of pre-colonial Benin concedes based on information from Benin court that the Binis’ “Oghene” is one and the same thing as the Ooni (of Ife).

Juliusmalema:




There is no historical appreciation between benin and Onitsha infact the whole Igboland but there exist facts of historical appreciation between benin and Ife...with clear evidences at sight.

Oba as title and names including communities.

Zik was quoted out of context and as such there is no link between benin and Onitsha but such can't be said if Benin and ice because binis as a whole are Yoruba people and vice versa.

Moreover there is no hypocrisy because yorubas are telling you guys who u are.

Why do you look at this story from only one angle (myopic). From the benin version, Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) the fugitive benin prince was made king in ile-ife. His son oranmiyan was sent to rule his ancestry land, which means that oranmiyan and his son eweka are still benin princes.

In addition it also means that all royal stools in Yoruba land are connected to benin lineage because the yoruba royalties claim Ekaladerhan (Oduduwa) as their father.

If you want to be diplomatic about this, I suggest you just stop arguing about this topic because there is no conclusive answer to this mystery.