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Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God - Religion (7) - Nairaland

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Ancient Bible Claims Jesus Christ Is Prophet, Not Son Of God / Why Jesus Is Not Son Of God? / The First Britsh Slave Ship To Reach The Americas Was Called The Good Jesus! (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Nobody: 1:57pm On Feb 04, 2008
Consider:


Matthew was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
John was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
Jude was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
James was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
The Risen Christ appeared and spoke with Paul. Paul was accepted by the 12 disciples (11 of whom were with Christ for 3 years)

, to name some of them,

Muhammad was born 570 years AFTER CHRIST.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by MCUsman(m): 2:51pm On Feb 04, 2008
THREE GRADES OF EVIDENCE
We Muslims have no hesitation in acknowledging that in the Bible, there three different kinds of witnessing recognizable without any need of specialized training. These are:
1. You will be able to recognize in the Bible what may be described as "The Word of God."
2. You also be able to discern what can be described as the "Words of a Prophet of God."
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnesses or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay. As such they are the "Words of a Historian."
You do not have to hunt for examples of these different types of evidences in the Bible. The following quotations will make the position crystal clear:
THE FIRST TYPE:
I. will raise them up a prophet, and will put my words in, and he shall speak unto them that shall command him." (Deuteronomy 18:18)
b. even am the Lord, and beside there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
c. Look unto and be ye saved, all the end of the earth: for am God, and there
is non else" (Isaiah 45:22)
Note the first person pronoun singular (encircled) in the above references, and without any difficulty you will agree that the statements seem to have the sound of being GOD'S WORD.
THE SECOND TYPE:
a. "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, Lama sabachtani?, " (Matthew 27:46)
b. "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the
Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
c. " And Jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? There is none good but one,
that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Even a child will be able to affirm that: Jesus "cried," Jesus "answered," and Jesus "said," are the words of the one to whom they are attributed, i.e. the WORDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD.
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he, (JESUS) came, if haply he (JESUS) might find anything thereon: and when he (JESUS) came to it, he (JESUS) found nothing but leaves, " (Mark 11:13) The bulk of the Bible is a witnessing of this THIRD kind. These are the words of a third person. Note the underlined pronouns. They are not the Words of God or of His prophet, but the WORDS OF A HISTORIAN.
For the Muslim it is quite easy to distinguish the above types of evidence, because he also has them in his own faith. But of the followers of the different religions, he is the most fortunate in this that his various records are contained in separate Books! The Muslim keeps the above three types of evidence jealously apart, in their proper gradations of authority. He never equates them. On the other hand, the "Holy Bible" contains a motley type of literature, which composes the embarrassing kind, the sordid, and the obscene - all under the same cover - A Christian is forced to concede equal spiritual import and authority to all, and is thus unfortunate in this regard.
ONE: The first kind - THE WORD OF GOD - is found in a book called The Holy Qur-án.
TWO: The second kind - THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, (Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are recorded in the books of Tradition called The Hadith.
THREE: Evidence of the third kind abounds in different volume of Islamic history, written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of less trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Lolabbey: 3:26pm On Feb 04, 2008
y not lets put an end 2 all these,

nio mata how much we try 2 convince them dey will never listen

so let ur religion be urs and let ours b ours.

lets keep peace at nairaland

on d day of judgmnt we shal knw whose religion is rite nor rong.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Nobody: 3:30pm On Feb 04, 2008
MC Usman:

THREE GRADES OF EVIDENCE
We Muslims have no hesitation in acknowledging that in the Bible, there three different kinds of witnessing recognizable without any need of specialized training. These are:
1. You will be able to recognize in the Bible what may be described as "The Word of God."
2. You also be able to discern what can be described as the "Words of a Prophet of God."
3. And you will most readily observe that the bulk of the Bible is the records of eye witnesses or ear witnesses, or people writing from hearsay. As such they are the "Words of a Historian."
You do not have to hunt for examples of these different types of evidences in the Bible. The following quotations will make the position crystal clear:
THE FIRST TYPE:
I. will raise them up a prophet, and will put my words in, and he shall speak unto them that shall command him." (Deuteronomy 18:18)
b. even am the Lord, and beside there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
c. Look unto and be ye saved, all the end of the earth: for am God, and there
is non else" (Isaiah 45:22)
Note the first person pronoun singular (encircled) in the above references, and without any difficulty you will agree that the statements seem to have the sound of being GOD'S WORD.
THE SECOND TYPE:
a. "Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, Lama sabachtani?, " (Matthew 27:46)
b. "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the
Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29)
c. " And Jesus said unto him, why callest thou me good? There is none good but one,
that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Even a child will be able to affirm that: Jesus "cried," Jesus "answered," and Jesus "said," are the words of the one to whom they are attributed, i.e. the WORDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD.
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he, (JESUS) came, if haply he (JESUS) might find anything thereon: and when he (JESUS) came to it, he (JESUS) found nothing but leaves, " (Mark 11:13) The bulk of the Bible is a witnessing of this THIRD kind. These are the words of a third person. Note the underlined pronouns. They are not the Words of God or of His prophet, but the WORDS OF A HISTORIAN.
For the Muslim it is quite easy to distinguish the above types of evidence, because he also has them in his own faith. But of the followers of the different religions, he is the most fortunate in this that his various records are contained in separate Books! The Muslim keeps the above three types of evidence jealously apart, in their proper gradations of authority. He never equates them. On the other hand, the "Holy Bible" contains a motley type of literature, which composes the embarrassing kind, the sordid, and the obscene - all under the same cover - A Christian is forced to concede equal spiritual import and authority to all, and is thus unfortunate in this regard.
ONE: The first kind - THE WORD OF GOD - is found in a book called The Holy Qur-án.
TWO: The second kind - THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, (Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) are recorded in the books of Tradition called The Hadith.
THREE: Evidence of the third kind abounds in different volume of Islamic history, written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of less trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!

Very good. But you have not told me why I should discard the written account of a witness for that of a non-witness who was born 570 years after Christ.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by MCUsman(m): 3:37pm On Feb 04, 2008
Why you should discard the entire bible. Read this ariticle 50, 000 errors in the bible
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by MCUsman(m): 3:40pm On Feb 04, 2008
ops !!!!!!

Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by MCUsman(m): 3:44pm On Feb 04, 2008
check out the second page, and get ready for the presentasion

Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Nobody: 3:50pm On Feb 04, 2008
This is not a new topic.

Why should I accept the opinions of someone who hates christianity and is questioning is basic tenets 1,957 years (1957) after the birth of Christ?

If he is interested in the original scriptures, they are available in Greek language, Hebrew language, etc etc. He should simply request for copies and then invest his time learning Greek, Hebrew and other languages in order to become a true scholar.

By the way, notice that he quotes the book of Romans below the AWAKE logo.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by 4Him(m): 3:52pm On Feb 04, 2008
Logical:

@imhotep
Quite a valid argument now but not strong because most of the writers of the bible never met Jesus.

John in the early-mid 2nd century.
Mark, the earliest of the gospels, is dated to 70 AD.
Liberal scholars date John (the latest of the gospels) to 125 AD

And yes, with the standards you put we can't trust either. Muhammed or the writers.

that's false. John was a disciple of Jesus Christ (John the beloved)
Mark worked with Paul the Apostle so he could not have been writing the gospel in AD 70 . . . the same period Jerusalem was being destroyed.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by MCUsman(m): 4:29pm On Feb 04, 2008
FIFTY THOUSAND (50,000) ERRORS IN THE BIBLE.
The Jehovah's Witnesses in their "AWAKE!" Magazine, 8 September 1957, carried this startling headline - "50 000 ERRORS IN THE BIBLE?" One a renown Muslim scholar by name Ahmed Deedat, heard a knock on his door one Sunday morning,  A gentleman stood there, grinning broadly. "Good morning!" he said. "Good morning," He replied. He was offering his "Awake" and "Watchtower" magazines. Yes, a Jehovah's Witness! If a few had knocked at your door previously, you will recognize them immediately. The most supercilious lot of people who ever knocked at people's doors! He was invited in. As soon as he settled down, Ahmed produced the full reproduction of what you see above. Pointing to the monographat the top of the page, He asked, "Is this your's?" He readily recognised his own. I said, "It says: 50 000 Errors in the Bible, is it true?" "What's that!" he exclaimed. he repeated, "Ahmed said, that it says, that there are 50 000 errors in your Bible." "Where did you get that?" He asked. "Leave the fancy talk aside - is this your's?" pointing again to the monograph - "Awake!" He said, "Can I have a look?" "Of course," he was handed over to him the page. He started perusing. They (the Jehovah's Witnesses) are trained. They attend classes five times a week in their "Kingdom Halls." Naturally, they are the fittest missionaries among the thousand - and - one - sects - and - denominations of Christendom. They are taught that when cornered, do not commit yourself to anything, do not open your mouths. Wait for the Holy Ghost to inspire you with what to say.
He browsed the page. Suddenly he looked up. He had found it. The "Holy Ghost" had tickled him. He began, "The article says that "most of those errors have been eliminated." I asked, "If MOST are eliminated, how MANY REMAIN OUT of 50 000? 5000? 500? 50? Even if 50 remain, do you attribute those errors to God?" He was speechless. He excused himself by suggesting that he will come again with some senior member of his Church. If anyone wants I can post some of these contradiction.

Morever, Imhotep the questions you should be asking are

where are these error if they do exist?
how did they manage to gain direct admission into the bible?
who is resposible for them?
how did they affect the holiness of the bible?

These are questions you should be asking not the source of the info.

", seeing they see not; hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." (Matthew 13:13) .
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Nobody: 4:44pm On Feb 04, 2008
These are strictly OPINIONS of Jehovah's Witnesses. There have been many before them (and many will come after them) who hold such views. But they do not stand the test of time.

You will also notice that they form an insignificant minority in Christendom.

The person(s) who wrote that article:
1) neither saw nor spoke with Christ,
2) is not a Greek scholar,
3) is not a Hebrew scholar,

His opinions should be left for him alone to ponder.

Besides, you are yet to tell me why I should not discard Mohammed's stories about christ.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by olabowale(m): 9:53pm On Feb 04, 2008
@Imhotep:
Consider:
Matthew was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
John was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
Jude was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
James was a disciple of Christ for 3 years.
The Risen Christ appeared and spoke with Paul. Paul was accepted by the 12 disciples (11 of whom were with Christ for 3 years)
Where are the Gospels of Jude for example, like the Gospel 'according to' Mark? We are still missing at least 7 Gospels. Where did the 'risen' Christ 'appeared' to paul? We will give paul the benefit of the doubt that he heard a voice. But how can anyone be sure it is Jesus voice, considering that no one who was familiar with Jesus voice was in the ill fated company that heard the voice? I submit that it was other entity's voice that paul heard, and not Jesus, since from that point on, he turned over on its head, all that Jesus had laid down for his disciples and they had followed without waivering.

Why they were still alive, if Paul was converted, any Christian 'doctrine,' should not have been the opposite of what the true Apostles/disciples of Jesus knew. Infact any development should have came from them, because they knew Jesus well enough to know his veracity. No wonder the like of Barnabas fought hard against Paul, until he Barnabas was subdued by the 'power that be,' and he had to toll the line.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Nobody: 9:58pm On Feb 04, 2008
olabowale:

@Imhotep: Where are the Gospels of Jude for example, like the Gospel 'according to' Mark? We are still missing at least 7 Gospels. Where did the 'risen' Christ 'appeared' to paul? We will give paul the benefit of the doubt that he heard a voice. But how can anyone be sure it is Jesus voice, considering that no one who was familiar with Jesus voice was in the ill fated company that heard the voice? I submit that it was other entity's voice that paul heard, and not Jesus, since from that point on, he turned over on its head, all that Jesus had laid down for his disciples and they had followed without waivering.

Why they were still alive, if Paul was converted, any Christian 'doctrine,' should not have been the opposite of what the true Apostles/disciples of Jesus knew. Infact any development should have came from them, because they knew Jesus well enough to know his veracity. No wonder the like of Barnabas fought hard against Paul, until he Barnabas was subdued by the 'power that be,' and he had to toll the line.

You are indeed free to reject the testimonies of these witnesses.

This implies you must immediately discard the testimony of Mohammed who, like yourself, was not there.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by st2(m): 10:44pm On Feb 04, 2008
Why on earth would i choose to spend quality time comparing and contrasting the personality of Our Lord Jesus Christ with another? Many doubted when he was alive and man would still doubt His status.

Believe it or not i care less about whatsoever evidences anyone has spent time to research for the sake of disreputing the person of Christ. Saul turned Paul did worse in the Acts of Apostles. I am more concerned about the healing and comforting power in that name. The salvation he has brought to all mankind. For he has been given a name above all names that at the name of Jesus, every knee must bow of things in the Heaven, on earth and under the earth.

In all sincerity Jesus Christ died for all our sins. Come to him and you will know peace.
Remember Jehovah God said: This is my beloved son in whom i am well pleased.
Remember we are made in God's likeness. I acknowledge Jehovah as my Father. He loves and treats me like a son not as a slave.

I have a word for those who dont know Him: Please close your eyes for few seconds and open them afterwards. What you see is an emptiness of heart, a state of total darkness without God. I am not asking that you to become a christian, all i ask is that you acknowledge that you were made by a Maker who has fashioned and odered your steps till this very day. By our power and might nothing can be done. Fear God.

No one is perfect. We can all strive towards perfection in Christ Jesus.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by dafidixone(m): 10:12am On Feb 05, 2008
As said in the Q'uran chapter 19 verse 30

He [Isa (Jesus) ] said: "verily, I am a slave of Allah,He has given me the scripture and made me a prophet.

What do you have to say to this those of you that called him the son of God.

Report to moderator Logged


How can you find a positive thing in a satanic verses?
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by wedu01(m): 5:21pm On Feb 05, 2008
I will like to comment a little about this matter, who Is mohammed, again who is Jesus, they are both are sent to mankind for a purpose, which was fulfill at Mohammed hands. Jesus himself has answer some crucial questiom during his life time. 1. He was asked who he is, Is he the prophets and he said the prophets has not yet come if he comes, he will testify to my works . and glorify my name.n then what bring up the uproar that mohammed now making a statement about Jesus. We are raising an alarm, I hope we have to study more about our religion by virtue, not by politicking religion.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 6:04am On Feb 06, 2008
dafidixone:

How can you find a positive thing in a satanic verses?
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by stimulus(m): 6:56am On Feb 06, 2008
MC Usman:

One a renown Muslim scholar by name Ahmed Deedat,

Deedat is not a scholar by any stretch. If people like him can be celebrated as such in Islam, it is no wonder that many Muslims with whom I've discussed issues relating to his (Deedat's) articles are uninformed and have had nothing intelligent to say afterwards.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 8:23am On Feb 06, 2008
stimulus:

Deedat is not a scholar by any stretch. If people like him can be celebrated as such in Islam, it is no wonder that many Muslims with whom I've discussed issues relating to his (Deedat's) articles are uninformed and have had nothing intelligent to say afterwards.

How do we define a scholar? I have watched some debates on Youtube, pretty insightful i must admit, and hec there is no bashings there. cheesy
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by stimulus(m): 9:29am On Feb 06, 2008
Logical:

How do we define a scholar? I have watched some debates on Youtube, pretty insightful i must admit, and hec there is no bashings there. cheesy

Lol. . . I have not insinuated that anyone was "bashing" another, so what's the pancreas release there about that? cheesy

In anycase, in all of the ways a "scholar" could be described, it does not involve cheating your audience with false assertions. That is precisely what Deedat has been doing - and if anyone is willing to engage the discussion to that point, I'd be too glad to point them out. That was what I was waiting for last night when babs787 was hellbent on recycling his theories on the Greek term for God in John 1:1 - but as quickly as he logged in, so quickly did he vamoose!

Whenever they so wish ("they" meaning any Muslim at all), they could recycle whatever part of Deedat's assumptions on John1:1 for starters, and then you just hang around and let's see if he remains one of your fav on the list of Muslim "scholars" after the exposé! grin
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 12:30pm On Feb 06, 2008
Ah, well character has nothing to do with knowledge. He is very aware, has gone through learning to acquire a lot of knowledge to be able to cheat his audience with false assertions as you claim. He can be classified a scholar, because he has the education or rather he is someone who has studied the bible extensively. Motives and character has nothing to do with his knowledge.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by stimulus(m): 12:37pm On Feb 06, 2008
@Logical,

Logical:

Ah, well character has nothing to do with knowledge. He is very aware, has gone through learning to acquire a lot of knowledge to be able to cheat his audience with false assertions as you claim. He can be classified a scholar, because he has the education or rather he is someone who has studied the bible extensively. Motives and character has nothing to do with his knowledge.

This is how sad your inferences can get. Motive and character have everything to do with scholarship - especially when one's motive is to dupe his audience with false assertions! Anyone can gather so-called knowledge from the Bible or Qur'an, but that does not mean that they are correctly assessing the verses they gather!

I would regard someone with even a basic knowledge of Greek who is honest to point out issues as they are - and not someone who dupes others and makes false statements aabout the Greek that no Muslim can defend! If cheating your readers is what you are pushing for as "scholarship", you only confirm the point I made earlier that there is nothing worth celebrating in Muslim hypocrisy.

Please dress warm and invite a discussion to Deedat's assumptions about the Greek terms he flatly denied on John 1:1 - that way you get to taste the real "scholarship" of a cheat whose false assertion you're at pains to glorify before considering the facts! Rather than hide behind these cheap statements, smart up and enter a discussion to reveal the facts!
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 12:49pm On Feb 06, 2008
stimulus:

@Logical,

If cheating your readers is what you are pushing for as "scholarship", you only confirm the point I made earlier that there is nothing worth celebrating in Muslim hypocrisy.


This what I said and let me say it again. There is a difference between knowledge and character. This are two distinctive, should I say objects?

Are you saying we don't have scholars that are frauds?
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by stimulus(m): 12:58pm On Feb 06, 2008
@Logical,

Logical:

Are you saying we don't have scholars that are frauds?

If scholarship has nothing to do with character, on what grounds are you going to defend the idea of scholars who are "frauds"? cheesy

You seem to be inching closer to affirming the very same thing I have been trying to share with you - and that is why I've invited you to enter into the John 1:1 argument of Deedat just as a foretaste of how he misled his audience! You don't address such unfortunate career of misleading people as "scholarship", nevermind that the one doing so has a moral bankruptcy!

Point simply is this: Deedat was not a scholar - an example is his argument on John 1:1. He was absolutely wrong, and he used his wrong assertions to cheat his audience.

Now, you really want to celebrate Deedat's false assertions as "scholarly"? Be my guest and be willing to defend Deedat's argument. Do you care to do so?
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Logical(m): 1:08pm On Feb 06, 2008
stimulus:

Now, you really want to celebrate Deedat's false assertions as "scholarly"? Be my guest and be willing to defend Deedat's argument. Do you care to do so?

And why would I want to do that? I have listened and watched a lot of his tricky ways to reaching a conclusion in youtube videos. Interesting, you should watch them. That does show how he uses his knowledge, which I think can be classified within the realms of someone that knows something.

When a scholarship is defined, no character is associated, just the extensive knowledge of the subject.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by stimulus(m): 1:21pm On Feb 06, 2008
@Logical,

Logical:

And why would I want to do that?

Because you of all people here have been hooting for Deedat as a scholar.

Logical:

I have listened and watched a lot of his tricky ways to reaching a conclusion in youtube videos. Interesting, you should watch them. That does show how he uses his knowledge, which I think can be classified within the realms of someone that knows something.

It is precisely because I have taken the time to watch some of his video presentation that I came to the staggering conclusion that he was not scholarly - and I know precisely the fact that he made false assertions in so many instances!

That is why I have been asking those who are convinced that Deedat is a scholar to please invite a discussion on just one example - the example that babs787 has plagiarized several times (from Deedat's arguments about Greek terms in John 1:1) and has been presenting as his own arguments to mesmerize readers on Nairaland!

Since you are convinced that Deedat was scholarly, please convince me so by defending your convictions thereto! As I do not see disguised tricks (which are FALSE assertions in his arguments) as part of "scholarship", I'd be glad to defend my convictions thereto. Is that not fair enough as yet?

Logical:

When a scholarship is defined, no character is associated, just the extensive knowledge of the subject.

If someone states something that is false as true, he is still wrong and has no knowledge of what he has asserted!

You would not be fine-tuning this round-about idea of dissociating character from scholarship and still recognize that Deedat was employing "tricky ways" of reaching his inferences. The tricks are false - wrong as "wrong" can be - and when someone has made assertions which are false, we should be able to separate his fallacy from scholarship. That's what I have invited you to do - and for the umpteenth time, I am still waiting! smiley
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by keemason: 5:01pm On Dec 20, 2009
well it depends on your believe and understanding of the word slave as it is written in the Quran, and the understand of the word God as it is used in the bible as we are also (small ) God and Son which all the xtian believe to also be.Son biological, son spritually & son in adoption
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by AbuZola3(m): 1:34am On Jan 03, 2010
Jesus is a slave of God, thats the heated truth
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by blackcypha(m): 11:25am On Feb 23, 2010
am tired of posting comments on threads like these!believe in wat u wanna who gives a Zap?
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by Maykelly(f): 3:13pm On Apr 06, 2010
[size=16pt]We were slave to sin and Lord Jesus bought us back to Sons of God. Christ Jesus is a Son of God and Messiah to Mankind of all skin colours, small or great in all endeavours. J E S U S is NEVER a slave at all. - You were the slave and was bought by Lord Jesus's PRECIOUS BLOOD. smiley[/size]
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by chakula: 5:32pm On Apr 06, 2010
a day is coming that you can not proof your saying.
Re: Jesus Is A Slave & Not Son Of God by streetwize(m): 2:05am On Apr 07, 2010
@ MC Usman All I can say Is. . . there are 4456 old women sitting on top of mount everest. . .

Now we have both made ridiculous statements, but tell me can you back your statement up, or can whatever scholar wrote that article back it up and ps if u say yes, then do IT asap. . . smiley smiley

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