alphaNomega:

You have not heard of the Extremis project? Tony Stark has designed it to be compatible with all humans, augmenting our abilities and eliminating all know source of human suffering.

He will release it soon

MaxInDHouse:
AY comedy show!

LordReed:


So your god was not sure they'd become his enemies he just prepared a plan to sacrifice Jesus just in case?

I will ask wild silly questions because you refuse to give straightforward answers. Besides my point was already made, your god has attritubes that make it silly to contemplate that he has hatred for the very things he created.

And what has that got to do with having a biological body with neurochemical structures that can be modified?

Still haven't answered the question, does your god have a neurological structure that can be modified, if he doesn't whence the emotions? BTW I dunno is an acceptable answer.

Image123:


Who are "they", i missed the part where you became specific. If you refer to yourself, you decide to become God's enemy and you decide not to. i can decide to become God's enemy by doing things against His will. It is ultimately MINE decision, not His.

2Ti_2:23  But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

There is no reason or wrong in deciding to hate or love, you are yet to present one. You have a right to hate or love and so does God.

If you and your ilk eternally obeyed God, you would not be God's enemy.

Do not conveniently forget the premise on which i replied this, for peace and time's sake we both ASSUME that neurochemicals are the sole cause of emotions. IF so, there is NOTHING wrong with God having them, your point is defeated several times. You were created in the image of God, why do you find it hard to think He has much more than you have?
When you wake up from your childish assumptions, tell me what makes you emotional with your family, chemicals or their behaviour?

alphaNomega:

Comedy show? So when I tell my own story it is a comedy show, but yours isn't?

LordReed:


Question remains unanswered.

Answer straightforward and we won't have to do a silly rigmarole.

Still has nothing to do with having a neurochemical structure.

What you also shouldn't conveniently forget is I don't believe your god exists so I am granting quite a bit for discussion sake.

My possession of neurochemical structures is want allows me to have emotional reactions to behaviour. If your god god has neurochemical structures that allow him have emotions what then is difference between a spirit and a physical body?

Image123:




Who are "they"?

Ask a straightforward question, not a foolish question, you'll get a straightforward answer.

Has everything to do with your main question about God having enemies, which birthed your fantasies about neurochemistry.

i remember every single time, but you keep asking about One whose existence you don't believe in, what neurochemical is responsible for the miracle?
i asked what MAKES you emotional, not what allows you to be emotional. It is your family's behavior that triggers the release of neurochemicals in you. Once you understand this simple line, you should be free. Your release into sadness and happiness is based on your family's actions. Events around you are what made you depressed or excited, not spasmodic releases of neurochemicals. If i had your wife's number, i would probably ask her to give you a wakeup slap so you could test the amount of dopamine left in you to bring out the smile.
You have continously been unable to prove anything wrong with God having neurochemicals. Now let's help you cut to the chase. Chemicals, antibodies and enzymes are released or called to action in human bodies. They are latent and not the primary cause of your life. If food comes into your stomach, or you had a cut, or you heard a bad news, these chemicals get "active" in a sense. A spirit has a spiritual body, ever heard that or the chemical for your retention finished?

LordReed:


Here we go, another rigmarole.






As long as we are discussing a foolish concept called god the questions will be foolish. A god who hates, a god who impregnates a virgin and kills babies. If we are discussing such a foolish concept then be prepared for foolish questions.






I spoke about hate, go look at the begin of the conversation.





I keep asking because the foolish concept is too dumb to pass up without comment on its absolute dumbness.

Without a neurochemical structure there can be no emotions no matter what the actions are. When you stub your toe on a stone who recoils in pain, you or the stone?

A spirit has a spiritual body that has neurochemical structures but yet a spirit is said to be inhabiting human bodies and you don't want us to ask foolish questions. Keep telling us more and exposing more of these dumb concepts.

Femzaremz:
nice one! Dont mind him! I have bn following this argument for a long time!i personally think theism is opposed to common sense! But what do i know! Ride on!

FOLYKAZE:

Where are the evidences that you possess the gift of faith?

You may have been privileged according to 1 Corinthians 12:8-9 gift of wisdom, or knowledge about the scripture, or prophesy, or healing, or speaking in tongue. All these are provable with ease.

Defending faith isn't a gift of faith.

FOLYKAZE:

On another round, Galatian 1:11-17 addresses your questions

ESV
Paul Called by God

11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.
12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it.
14 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born,[d] and who called me by his grace,
16 was pleased to reveal his Son to[e] me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;[f]
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.


Paul had direct intervention from Christ. He was been assigned for the job of preaching to the Gentiles before he was born , and was only called when it was time.

Moreso, just like you are defending faith today, those who prophesied in the name of the Lord, heal sickness in the name of Jesus, cast out demons in the name of the Lord, or accustomed with knowledge of the Lord to preach may not be known to the Lord

Matthew 7:21-23
New King James Version

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

[b]There is no way you can prove you had divine encounter and accosted with the gift of faith; therefore your present thoughts of been faithful is delusional. Hence, your logic is stamped out.

The linear sequence of been faithful to God is prepared even before on is born.
Romans 8:30
New International Version
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

The sequence there is God glorifying those he had justified, whom he had called, whom he had predestined with the gift of faith.

On the other round, like Paul, some are reserved, not exhibiting their faith until the last time when they would be be saved.

1 Peter 1:5
New International Version
5 "who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time."

You are the known Yinka, that those who are once saved are ever saved. Moreso, we are simply tools in the hand of God, as such, there is no freewill. This is why Jesus said those who are his would yield to his voice, and no one can snatch them from him.

John 10:27-28
New International Version
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

If snatching from Jesus implies sinning or returning to worldly things, those who are gifted with faith, the sheep cannot and never derail from the path which Christ put them.

1 John 3:9
New International Version
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

FOLYKAZE:

No. If you return to atheism now, it review you haven't been granted the gift of Faith.

FOLYKAZE:

No. It implies you were only deluding yourself before.

FOLYKAZE:

While I subscribe to the idea that He gives and takes, there is no evidence from scripture he takes back gift of faith.

FOLYKAZE:

No role. We are just vessels and tool of God with which he utilize his ultimate will.

FOLYKAZE:

I only understand though, that some vessel are only meant for destruction roman 9:22. Which exposes that God is wicked and unjust.

FOLYKAZE:


You had wanted an eisegesis remark on it. Why don't you give us your own view?

LordReed:


Here we go, another rigmarole.

As long as we are discussing a foolish concept called god the questions will be foolish. A god who hates, a god who impregnates a virgin and kills babies. If we are discussing such a foolish concept then be prepared for foolish questions.

I spoke about hate, go look at the begin of the conversation.

I keep asking because the foolish concept is too dumb to pass up without comment on its absolute dumbness.

Without a neurochemical structure there can be no emotions no matter what the actions are. When you stub your toe on a stone who recoils in pain, you or the stone?

A spirit has a spiritual body that has neurochemical structures but yet a spirit is said to be inhabiting human bodies and you don't want us to ask foolish questions. Keep telling us more and exposing more of these dumb concepts.

Image123:


It's not a rigmarole except that you keep making it one, i wonder how your kinsmen cope with your pesky issues. When you refer to God's enemies, i take the full perspective which includes devils. Also as you earlier opined about God knowing about satan before creating him. So when you go to talk about "they", it is good to be clear about who the "they" are, you or devils?

When you have sincere and reasonable questions that can help you and others, you are free to ask.

i did not say otherwise if you read carefully. Freewill has everything to do with your main question about God having/HATING enemies, which birthed your fantasies about neurochemistry.

In summary, you are saying that foolishness made you foolish.
You are literally putting the wheel of the cart before the horse. What makes the cart to turn is not the wheel, it has no will of its own. We may say that the wheel allows the cart to turn, that is more reasonable. Tyres do not turn of their own volition. The chemicals inside you do not act of their own volition except you are insane as suspected. They are dependent on the external behaviours. Do you just start laughing and crying for no reason because you are full of neurochemicals? Neurochemicals are not the underlying cause of your emotions or sole cause as you have being implying. Actions trigger them.
When did i tell you that a spirit has neurochemical structures? i asked you what was wrong with spirits having neurochemical structures and your "NOTHING" reply was so loud and echoing. So since nothing is wrong, what is the fuss about? God lives in Heaven by the way, and He has a spiritual body like you rightly recall.

Image123:


You were created in the image of God, why do you find it hard to think He has much more than you have?

Image123:

A spirit has a spiritual body, ever heard that or the chemical for your retention finished?

Femzaremz:

nice one! Dont mind him! I have bn following this argument for a long time! i personally think theism is opposed to common sense! But what do i know! Ride on!

LordReed:


My question remains: So your god was not sure they'd become his enemies he just prepared a plan to sacrifice Jesus just in case?

If I need your help I'll let you know, meanwhile keep entertaining me with ridiculous god concepts. LMAO!

And what exactly has it got to do with your god hating enemies?

In summary you can't be foolish before you've had a foolish thought.

If there is no cart you cannot put it anywhere in the first place. Can a cart move if it has no wheels? Can you turn a tire that does not exist? I cannot be insane if I did not possess a neurochemical structure. Where did I imply that they are the sole cause?

This were your responses:



What was your implication if not that your god and spirits have neurochemical structures?

Meanwhile, try to be calming down you are getting highly emotional. LMAO!!

Image123:


Who are "they", you or devils?

LordReed:


My question remains: So your god was not sure they'd become his enemies he just prepared a plan to sacrifice Jesus just in case?

hoopernikao:


No, I am not speaking about remark or opinion. I mean just reading properly the way you read simple literature you will not come to this wrong conclusion.

Try read it in a conversational mode, it was a conversation. Conversation don't come with chapters and verses originally. I guess that is what affected your interpretation.

Just read properly, it will be clear.

shadeyinka2:

I didn't claim I have the gift of faith. This is the ability to trust God even in serious extraordinary cases. I know a few people though who has this gift. I was speaking about the kind of faith required for salvation (saving faith) not the kind of faith for moving "mountains" (moving faith)

shadeyinka2:

Even though you had a few mix-ups, you seem to have a deeper understanding than some of my brethren. However, There are some serious mix up that I need to address.
1. One of your argument is that God calls who He wills and therefore, it may not be a persons fault if he isn't saved.
Answer:
Yes, sometimes as a mark of God's extraordinary grace a few people are shown the extraordinary favour of being directly called by God. Eg. Paul. But this is not the norm, it is an exception.

Secondly,
You quoted Gal1:11, Rom 8:30 to buttress your point about predestination of the elect for salvation.
Even though Gods predestination is true for the elect, the predestination is based on God's FOREKNOWLEDGE of the person. What this means is that the Creator of Time can see ALL your actions even before you made them, not because He predestined your actions but because He is not limited by time to see. These people who fulfil the trait of God for salvation are the ones He predestined and called from the eternal past.

Rom 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

Rom 11:2:
"God has not cast away his people which he foreknew . Know you not what the scripture said of Elias? how he makes intercession to God against Israel saying,"

1Pet 1:2:
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you, and peace, be multiplied."


In other words, FOREKNOWLEDGE precedes Predestination.

shadeyinka2:

2. That we don't have out own will
Of course we do have a strong Will constrained by circumstances often times beyond our direct control. In other words, within the limitations of our constraints, we express our will.

You could choose either to reply this post or not. You can decide to forgive or not. You could decide to resign from your place of work today or not. You could choose to give God a chance or not.

This is FREEWILL: ability to CHOOSE a line of action within the available options allowed by your external and internal constraints.

shadeyinka2:
Believers are given the job of Evangelism because those who hear the message can use their freewill to decide to align with God or reject Him. Everyone's external and internal constraints are varied and different.

shadeyinka2:

It means I never really knew God from the beginning. Salvation itself is the Gift: trusting the Giver of the Gift for my own gift is my responsibility. Rejecting the gift is also my responsibility.

shadeyinka2:
You are correct: God doesn't take back His gift.
I am not sure if people can by themselves throw away Gods gifts but I think this is possible.

shadeyinka2:
No!
It just means that you cannot question God about whatever He does with anyone.

shadeyinka2:
The key phrase is: "WHAT IF"
Rom 9:22:
"What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"

Even if we don't want to stress the "what if", the Scripture is about God through His patience allowing the wicked to completely do their will without restraint from God (when He could have stopped them through death).

However, the total Scripture here is speaking about the fact that "an engineer cannot be challenged for dismantling one of his own creations". I can't challenge God for being born in Africa rather than in USA, I can't challenge that I am not as healthy as my peers, I can't even challenge that I was born into a Muslim Cleric's house.

LordReed:


When say a whole class of people should be disenfranchised simply for not believing as you do you are a bigot so this analogy does not illustrate what thing it does.

LordReed:


All these doesn't stop you from being bigoted. In fact it even makes it more clear that you are bigoted.

shadeyinka:

If telling a man bitten by a poisonous snake to seek immediate medical intervention else he will experience blood haemorrhage, inability to breath, excruciating pain and finally death by the fourth day: then, only a bigot will keep QUIET so as to rejoice over the evil that has befallen you.

But since I am still warning you that the path you have taken is the path of judgement, misery and regret of which you still have time to repent, then I'm a good man who wishes you well!

shadeyinka:

When has it become a sin to warn a whole class of people heading stubbornly towards their sure impending doom except they repent?

You forget that when the inevitable happens, you will judge me as wicked for not warning you of the calamity I knew will befall your class.

Humans are difficult set of people. Do You want me to hope against all odds for you by telling you only what you want to hear?

shadeyinka:


Until people like your kind are evicted from this world, pain and misery is expected.

FOLYKAZE:

FOLYKAZE:


There lies the problem. With the emboldened, I can easily deduce you don't really understand what faith is. Neither do understand believe nor trust. Even when the bible use these words interchangeably, they mean a whole different thing.

And as for those you claim to know that possess the gift of faith; these people only exhibit the act of faith which is different from virtue of faith.

In order to understand this subject, you will need to read thoroughly the book written by St. Thomas Aquinas, SUMMA THEOLOGIAE

He defines Belief and faith in St. Thomas, II-II (SECUNDA SECUNDÆ PARTIS), Q. iv, a. 1&2 respectively as:

Belief is immediately an act of the intellect

Faith the act of the intellect assenting to a Divine truth owing to the movement of the will, which is itself moved by the grace of God

Many Christians today proclaim or appear that they possess the gift of faith which actually is incorrect. What they do actually possess is an act of faith or belief: this act is centred on reasoning and intellect.

FOLYKAZE:

With regard to law of nature, I subscribe to Determinism. And with issue related with Human nature, I consider myself a fatalist. All fields of describing nature and human as a whole tilt toward determinism and fatalism.

Firstly, from a christian standpoint, when there is an all knowing God with infinite wisdom and understanding of all possibilities; free will, an individual choices that are not wholly determined by prior influence; therefore not only refute the ultimate will of God, but also open more web of problems like the problem of evil.

FOLYKAZE:

As a Christian, you would either become:
a. Calvinist who outrightly reject the idea of free will. Although there is a room for "compatibalistic free" choices. This means we "choose" but what we will choose is determined.
b. Open Theist who doesn't believe God is Omniscient. It implies God knows everything that is knowable which would not include the choices of free individuals.
c. Traditional Libertarian theism who posit that God knows every choices but he is not deterministic about it. This set strip God off the attributes of omnipotence and benevolence.

Secondly, from the Yoruba spirituality standpoint, the Gods are not absolved from the blame. From the physical and medical defect, to bad conditioned fate, existence and experiences, the Gods are blamed pointblank. All variable choices, behaviour and ethic leads to the same determined future, not even charm could change it. Life is but a dream, a reflective mirror of Iponri.

Lastly, from the naturalistic or atheist viewpoint, we are simply our own brain puppet.

All in all, there is no free will anywhere, except from the Christianity where Christians try to absolve God from the imbalances, evil, and imperfect world.

FOLYKAZE:

Does God not know our possible choices and outcome of every choice we make? Would our choice deter or defer us away from God's plan?

Jeremiah 1:5
New International Version
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

FOLYKAZE:

People who evangelize are pretty much wasting their time... Unless the spirit of truth dwells in the listener, and the comforter stands by him, all that is been said wouldn't sink in.

John 14:16-17
King James Version
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


Power of God cannot be resisted.

FOLYKAZE:

A river cannot flow against it course

Isaiah 22:22
I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

I can REASON sha?
Ultimately, he will destroy those he found not fit, when actually they didn't dent themselves.

LordReed:

This is what you wrote:
This is not a word of solicitous advice, this is the word of a bigot who expects his adversaries to be decimated.

Until people like your kind are evicted from this world, pain and misery is expected.

shadeyinka:

The truth is always bitter!
I wish you had looked carefully at the language used.


No where did I wish you pain and misery.

In simpler English: Until all who hate God are not part of the new Earth, pain and misery will remain on the earth!

Haven't you heard of Paradise before?
Will their be people who hate God in Paradise?

How does the statement mean that I wish you pain and misery?

shadeyinka:

Until all who don't know God are no more, pain and misery will remain on the earth!

MaxInDHouse:
An atheist can't hate God because he doesn't even believe in that God exists, they also wants thing to go well and it's the attitude of people claiming worshipers of God that's making atheists doubt the existence of God.
So the real enemies of God aren't atheists rather it's those claiming they know but proving false to His existence as no attribute of God is found in their gathering. Therefore when the atheist look into the matter critically he finds it hard to see any God in the picture!
So it's those who don't know God that are causing pain and misery on this planet, atheism is just an offshoot of the misinformed Churchgoers!




Psalms 9:17

shadeyinka:

The truth is always bitter!
I wish you had looked carefully at the language used.


No where did I wish you pain and misery.

Until all who hate God are not part of the new Earth, pain and misery will remain on the earth!

Haven't you heard of Paradise before?
Will their be people who hate God in Paradise?

How does the statement mean that I wish you pain and misery?

LordReed:


You wish me to be evicted from this world so you can have it all to yourself. That is disenfranchisement.

shadeyinka:

It shows that you don't know how fluid the definition and who an atheist really is!
Some atheists actively hate God
Romans 1:30
slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Psalm 83:2
For behold, Your enemies make an uproar,
And those who hate You have exalted themselves.

MaxInDHouse:
As a true believer i meditate a lot on the life and ministry of Jesus Christ. He never had an issue with atheists (People debunking God) rather the war Jesus fought was against religionsts whose form of worship brings no praise to God.
So the Bible quotations you pasted has nothing to do with atheism.
Note that from inception nobody claimed to be an atheist, Cain, Nimrod, Pharaoh Ramses, Korah, Balaam, Goliath and many other enemies of God's people never debunk the existence of God, the one and only issue they had with the Israelites is Why must a nation claim they're the only worshipers of the most high God? Why are they saying only them know God? they all believed that everyone worships God differently due to various opinions and the ways they understand God while Israelites kept saying it must be the way it is written in their own books (scriptures)
At a point in time the nation of Israel broke into two fractions ten tribes in the North and two tribes in the South, then another enmity erupted within the Israelites themselves the two Southern tribes (Jews) were claiming God doesn't accept the worship of the Northern tribes (Samaritans) {John 4::20} but what has the Messiah got to say on the matter? Did Jesus say both sides were worshiping the same God? NO! Instead Jesus further confirmed that the Jews were right all along! John 4:22
The Samaritan woman felt Jesus (being Jew) is biased so she concluded that the matter will one day be settled when the Messiah (Christ) come! John 4:25
However did Jesus had any issue with Samaritans? NO! Rather it was his own Jewish religious leaders that he kept speaking against.
WHY?
Because if they practice pure worship appropriately there can't be any religion contending with pure worship. Matthew 15:3-11
That's why you guys will notice that we JWs don't have disputes with atheists because they're just an offshoot of false religionsts rather the problem is the churches of Christendom not even Muslims, but those claiming Christians yet can't produce LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, GENTLENESS, FAITH, MILDNESS, and SELF-CONTROL in their gathering! Galatians 5:22-23 compare to 2Timothy 3:5