As for atheists they have always existed but it's in our generation that they're coming out boldly to air their views.
Before now it's like a taboo for anyone (even among idol worshipers) to debunk the existence of God but when America granted FREEDOM OF SPEECH, EXPRESSION and WORSHIP every hidden things in the minds of people has begun to manifest, they're no more keeping it to themselves and gradually they will continue to multiply until they outnumber religionsts that's when they will declare no more religion.
But as for idol worshipers what do you call Samaritans who erected a temple in Samaria and keep all sorts of idols offering sacrifices there?
Are they not idolaters?
Because Jesus preached to them, remember how the Apostles got so furious with the way these idolaters treated the Messiah (Christ) in fact they suggested calling down fire from heaven to destroy them {Luke 9:51-54} Jesus rebuked them because they never thought of such when their own people (Jews) stoned God's son inside the temple! John 10:31
What do you think prompt such prejudice in the hearts of the Apostles?
Well it's because they felt insulted for IDOLATERS like Samaritans to insult their Messiah!

shadeyinka:

There was no iota of evidence that Jesus spoke with ANY Atheist. There wasn't even any evidence that Jesus spoke with ANY idolater!

MaxInDHouse:
As for atheists they have always existed but it's in our generation that they're coming out boldly to air their views.
Before now it's like a taboo for anyone (even among idol worshipers) to debunk the existence of God but when America granted FREEDOM OF SPEECH, EXPRESSION and WORSHIP every hidden things in the minds of people has begun to manifest, they're no more keeping it to themselves and gradually they will continue to multiply until they outnumber religionsts that's when they will declare no more religion.
But as for idol worshipers what do you call Samaritans who erected a temple in Samaria and keep all sorts of idols offering sacrifices there?
Are they not idolaters?
Because Jesus preached to them, remember how the Apostles got so furious with the way these idolaters treated the Messiah (Christ) in fact they suggested calling down fire from heaven to destroy them {Luke 9:51-54} Jesus rebuked them because they never thought of such when their own people (Jews) stoned God's son inside the temple! John 10:31
What do you think prompt such prejudice in the hearts of the Apostles?
Well it's because they felt insulted for IDOLATERS like Samaritans to insult their Messiah!

Even Israel had at a time worshiped an idol in the name of "the golden calf" and at other times. A little history will tell you that at the time of Jesus, the Samaritans can not be called idolaters even though they know not what they worshiped. In fact, they didn't reject Jesus nor His message unlike modern day Atheists

The Samaritans even though may not know whom they worshiped were expectant of the Messiah who they believed will lead them into the right path
John 4:25-26:
"The woman said to him, I know that Messias comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus said to her, I that speak to you am he."

The Samaritans were even responsive to the Gospel of Christ as can be seen in the Scriptures below

John 4:39:
"And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did."

John 4:40:
"So when the Samaritans were come to him, they sought him that he would tarry with them: and he stayed there two days."

Acts 8:25:
"And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans."


Very different from the antagonistic set of Atheists here who think they already have the scientific and logical proof of the non existence of the Creator God.

shadeyinka:

Abraham believed in God in an extraordinary situation.

Belief: A state of the heart of Trust in the integrity of a Personality
Faith: Action based on the Belief of the Heart in the of Trust in the integrity of a Personality

You mean belief is an act of faith? Funny you.
Did you take your time to read the linked book in my previous post? I definitely know you dont.
Can you illustrate this your definition with Hebrew 11:1? I challenge you to....

But before that, let me give you a clue of what belief and faith are.

Belief is a product of mind/brain.
Faith is a product of the spirit.

Belief stem from intellectual construct, rational thinking and mental evaluation which ensue from natural source.
Faith stem from divinity, which ensue from a supernatural source.

Belief changes overtime
Faith remain constant.

Belief is an attitude of knowing, hence you learn to believe.
Faith is an attitude of acceptance of not knowing.
You unlearn to have faith.

Now Yinka, do you believe in God or have faith in him?

shadeyinka:

No sir!
Freewill is the ability of a Person to choose a course of action amongst possibilities subject to surrounding constraints.
Free Will does not reduce the omnipotence of God rather it asserts Gods omnipresence even in time and space. Simply put, your futute is not determined, it is Foreknown by God. In other words, God can travel in the fabric of time to view what you will do with the opportunities you are presented with without interfaring with your ability to CHOOSE. Whatever you chose was what God saw.


None of the above.
For me, God has the power to Foreknow not because He has Destined a person for such or not.

Yes, God knows every choice anyone will ever make because He created time and thus can move anywhere within time (past, present and future) to view and thus have a foreknowledge of events before it happens. However, our future is CREATED in real time by what CHOICES we MAKE with our Present Real time Opportunities within available Constraints.

If God can see our fututre, then He can also graciously Change the fututre to bend to His will.

Does God not know our possible choices and outcome of every choice we make?
Answer: YES
Would our choice deter or defer us away from God's plan?
Answer: NO!

Ok!

God knew I will take tea this morning, it is therefore impossible that i would take coffee. This mean my choice of taking a tea instead of coffee was compelled by God's foreknowledge. Therefore, my thought of free will is illusionary.

Since you are inferring that it is impossible to make a choice different from what God foresaw, doesn't this imply that my choice is mere illusion?

shadeyinka:

Except by Gods intervention, whatever we do is exactly what God had foreseen from eternity past.
Since nothing catches God by accident, our choices cannot defer us away from God's plan for us

Rom 8:29:
"For whom he did foreknow , he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

Rom 11:2:
"God has not cast away his people which he foreknew . Know you not what the scripture said of Elias? how he makes intercession to God against Israel saying,"

1Pet 1:2:
"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you, and peace, be multiplied."

Gbam! This implies we don't have a choice except for what God foreknow and determined.

shadeyinka:

I got Born again through Evangelism.
I can still remember how a Muslim Alfa got born Again in my Office: It happened so fast that I was reluctant to believe Him until he with his mouth told me thsat he understood the message and will want to get born again. In my office he knelt down as we prayed. I must confess, its still amazes me till today.

Evangelism isnt a waste o.
We can speak, but the holy Spirit is the one who convicts a tired, seeking and humble heart. If the Moslem had told me he wasnt interested, I would have kept my mouth shut.

You didn't become a born again. You are simply a believer.

The spirit of truth does not abide in you nor do you receive the gift of faith. Can you move mountains? Lol

shadeyinka:

What is man to God?
A free willed creature made to be a mirror of God, superior to all other creatures
What does God want from man?
People who will of their own volition choose to Love and Live their lives unconditionally under His rule
Why the Earth?
The Earth is a School for Separation and Selection between the Sheep and the Goat
What then happens?
The Wheat is set appart for the Use of the King of the Universe
The Tares are set appart for the Refuse Dump of God as useless to His cause

God made them all: goat and sheep, and tare and wheat. We didn't have choose to become goat or sheep

shadeyinka:

Even Israel had at a time worshiped an idol in the name of "the golden calf" and at other times. A little history will tell you that at the time of Jesus, the Samaritans can not be called idolaters even though they know not what they worshiped. In fact, they didn't reject Jesus nor His message unlike modern day Atheists

Yes they welcome the Messiah since they were awaiting his arrival but as at that time they don't want to accept God's arrangement which was the temple setting in Jerusalem, rather they set up their own temple in opposition to God's temple in Jerusalem!

The Samaritans even though may not know whom they worshiped were expectant of the Messiah who they believed will lead them into the right path
John 4:25-26:
"The woman said to him, I know that Messias comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus said to her, I that speak to you am he."
The Samaritans were even responsive to the Gospel of Christ as can be seen in the Scriptures below
John 4:39:
"And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did."
John 4:40:
"So when the Samaritans were come to him, they sought him that he would tarry with them: and he stayed there two days."
Acts 8:25:
"And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans."
Very different from the antagonistic set of Atheists here who think they already have the scientific and logical proof of the non existence of the Creator God.

America gave everyone the right to air his/her opinion on worship, that's why they're coming up with all these but their type has always existed!

MaxInDHouse:

Yes they welcome the Messiah since they were awaiting his arrival but as at that time they don't want to accept God's arrangement which was the temple setting in Jerusalem, rather they set up their own temple in opposition to God's temple in Jerusalem!


America gave everyone the right to air his/her opinion on worship, that's why they're coming up with all these but their type has always existed!

I think it is one thing to treat the existence of God as a fairy tale like Father Christmas; it is another thing to take such supposed fairy tale as a mission to vigorously and militantly pursue.

It would either be insanity or demonic for a man to devote his life to proving that Santa Claus is non existence.

The fact that they seriously oppose God and are evangelistic about it shows that they are simply doing what they do to force their conscience to silence.

No my friend, they're now fighting back after a long lasting oppression from religionsts lording over them and setting conflicting standards for them.
They just feel it's time to speak out but the truth is to real Christians they know nothing at all so we view them like toothless dogs we find along the road backing.
That's why we (JWs) only enlighten them when they ask thought provoking questions to prove to them that they're not fully informed enough to challenge the truth.
For instance one of them came on Nairaland saying the story of David and Goliath was fake, all the Churchgoers were just insulting and cursing him but when i cleared his doubts he couldn't continue with the arguments!

So when you prove to be much more intelligent than they're you'll see them running away from you even while you're tactfully explaining things to them!

shadeyinka:

I think it is one thing to treat the existence of God as a fairy tale like Father Christmas; it is another thing to take such supposed fairy tale as a mission to vigorously and militantly pursue.
It would either be insanity or demonic for a man to devote his life to proving that Santa Claus is non existence.
The fact that they seriously oppose God and are evangelistic about it shows that they are simply doing what they do to force their conscience to silence.

Were you ever in a Seminary?
What made your turning Point? Was it gradually or was it a drastic event?

FOLYKAZE:

You mean belief is an act of faith? Funny you.
Did you take your time to read the linked book in my previous post? I definitely know you don't.
Can you illustrate this your definition with Hebrew 11:1? I challenge you to....

I never said that "belief is an act of faith"
I said:
Belief: A state of the heart (or mind) of Trust in the integrity of a Personality
Faith: Actions/Decisions you make (internal or external) based on the Belief of the Heart in the of Trust in the integrity of a Personality

Heb 11:1
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

A Simple Illustration:
Faith is like the Check/Promissory Note of N250,000,000 you received from Aliko Dangote evidenced by what you do (reaction) with the Check.
The Check is the Substance of the Money Hoped For!
The Check is the evidence of the Money Hoped For!
The Check is NOT the Money. The Check is a Promissory Note!

This Reaction comes because you believed in the Integrity of the Personality of Aliko Dangote so as to treat the Promissory Note as already DONE!
Just imagine all the sets of actions you will take because you know that Dangote's Check cannot bounce! Won't you boldly walk into your bank to cash the money? Won't you rejoice and celebrate preemptively because you have received the check? Won't you begin to dream and plan of what you'll do with that extra N250,000,000?

Turn the table around:
If the HeadMaster of your Primary school met you on the road and gave you a Check of N250,000,000, would that check be an Evidence that you are now a Millionaire? Will that Check serve as an Evidence that you will buy a Bently 2021 model by Monday next week? Would you joyfully and confidently walk into your bank to cash the money?

That is why in Hebrews 11, faith is always connected with Action taken by the Personality:
By Faith Abraham did..
By Faith Abel did...
By Faith Noah did...etc.

I guess that was why James painted it as : Faith without Works is DEAD!

FOLYKAZE:

But before that, let me give you a clue of what belief and faith are.

Belief is a product of mind/brain.
Faith is a product of the spirit.

Belief stem from intellectual construct, rational thinking and mental evaluation which ensue from natural source.
Faith stem from divinity, which ensue from a supernatural source.

Belief changes overtime
Faith remain constant.

Belief is an attitude of knowing, hence you learn to believe.
Faith is an attitude of acceptance of not knowing.
You unlearn to have faith.

Now Yinka, do you believe in God or have faith in him?

Very good attempt from you. I wish many of my people can distil the difference between Faith and Believing like this.
To your last Question:I both Believe and Have Faith in God.

-Faith is Earned AND Faith can also be a Gift.
-Faith is in Sizes (Great faith, Little Faith, etc)
-We also grow in Faith
-Faith is trusting in the Integrity of God evidenced by your corresponding Action towards it
-There is Faith because God has Spoken and there is Faith because you know God and Faith as a Demand for God's intervention
-Faith is a command for believers

Believing is based on knowledge of God: however, knowing is also Relative. Believing could also be purely intellectual. Faith is ACTING on what you have believed because of KNOWING surely/with certainty that the act will not FAIL your expectation.

FOLYKAZE:

God knew I will take tea this morning, it is therefore impossible that i would take coffee. This mean my choice of taking a tea instead of coffee was compelled by God's foreknowledge. Therefore, my thought of free will is illusionary.

Since you are inferring that it is impossible to make a choice different from what God foresaw, doesn't this imply that my choice is mere illusion?
Gbam! This implies we don't have a choice except for what God foreknow and determined.

No Sir!
Your Final Choice of taking Tea rather than Coffee was what God saw. If you like, mix both Coffee and Tea: it's your CHOICE and that is exactly what God saw. You can even choose not to take any beverage this morning and that would be exactly what God saw. The Future is NOT cast in stone.

If I had a Time-Machine and can view the News and Happening from tomorrow up till December, have I compelled Buhari, the Senate, BokoHaram, NNPC, FRSC to act in a certain manner so that they can generate the news I've already foreseen?

God's Foreknowledge has nothing to do with compelling you to make certain choices. God's Foreknowledge is the expression of His Omnipresence even in TIME and SPACE!

You can Decide what ever you Will at this Time, whatever your present choice at execution time is, is what God has seen: meaning that YOU FOLYKAZE have the power to determine whatever God would have seen about you.

FOLYKAZE:

You didn't become a born again. You are simply a believer.

The spirit of truth does not abide in you nor do you receive the gift of faith. Can you move mountains? Lol

I can only smile at you for you err greatly.
It's just like you telling me that: "shadeyinka, you are not a man!"
Do you expect me to start arguing and proving to you that I'm a man?

Can I move mountains!?
I am still growing my dear. Sometimes it's not so simple having ADEQUATE Faith for the kind of Spiritual intervention Desired. Faith is a SPIRITUAL Currency. I may have N10,000 in my purse and I desire to make a demand for a 160 inch Flat Screen TV at the electronics store. Yes, I have some money, but can my money purchase my desire? No!

FOLYKAZE:

God made them all: goat and sheep, and tare and wheat. We didn't have choose to become goat or sheep

Exactly why we ALL need to be Born Again.

We are all born destined for destruction as TARES and GOATS.
However, God in His mercies provided "the LAMB of God" as a Sacrifice;
That just as the Bronze Serpent was hung in the Wilderness: So also will this LAMB be hung on a Tree

Just like in the Wilderness: That WHOSOEVER believes in Gods SOLUTION shall NOT Perish, but have their Eternal Life with God
Such People have been GIVEN a New LIFE, New IDENTITY, New SPIRIT (Born Again). The former nature is DEAD, the New nature is LIFE,

No one is perfect. It is a GIFT that you can come to GOD for: Change the course of your Future by what you DO now. Change yourself from Being a TARE or GOAT to one of God's SHEEP.

Can you bring yourself to TRUST God's INTEGRITY?

MaxInDHouse:
No my friend, they're now fighting back after a long lasting oppression from religionsts lording over them and setting conflicting standards for them.
They just feel it's time to speak out but the truth is to real Christians they know nothing at all so we view them like toothless dogs we find along the road backing.
That's why we (JWs) only enlighten them when they ask thought provoking questions to prove to them that they're not fully informed enough to challenge the truth.
For instance one of them came on Nairaland saying the story of David and Goliath was fake, all the Churchgoers were just insulting and cursing him but when i cleared his doubts he couldn't continue with the arguments!

So when you prove to be much more intelligent than they're you'll see them running away from you even while you're tactfully explaining things to them!

So surprising you don't understand the signs of the time we are in

2 Peter 3:3-4
Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”

2 Timothy 3:1-4
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

Matthew 24:37
For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

shadeyinka:
Were you ever in a Seminary?
What made your turning Point? Was it gradually or was it a drastic event?

Haaaa! Seminary ke.

My sojourn into enlightenment was borne out of curiosity. From my tender age, I yearn to know truth. Curiosity led me into and outside religion. I was never convinced, always thirsty to know the truth. However, I found that if knowing is water, and digging deep is the cup, no matter the quantity I gulped, I am never satisfied. All in all, I never encounter divinity. I stopped digging into abyss and walked my way back into disbelief.

shadeyinka:
I never said that "belief is an act of faith"
I said:
Belief: A state of the heart (or mind) of Trust in the integrity of a Personality
Faith: Actions/Decisions you make (internal or external) based on the Belief of the Heart in the of Trust in the integrity of a Personality

Heb 11:1
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

A Simple Illustration:
Faith is like the Check/Promissory Note of N250,000,000 you received from Aliko Dangote evidenced by what you do (reaction) with the Check.
The Check is the Substance of the Money Hoped For!
The Check is the evidence of the Money Hoped For!
The Check is NOT the Money. The Check is a Promissory Note!

This Reaction comes because you believed in the Integrity of the Personality of Aliko Dangote so as to treat the Promissory Note as already DONE!
Just imagine all the sets of actions you will take because you know that Dangote's Check cannot bounce! Won't you boldly walk into your bank to cash the money? Won't you rejoice and celebrate preemptively because you have received the check? Won't you begin to dream and plan of what you'll do with that extra N250,000,000?

Turn the table around:
If the HeadMaster of your Primary school met you on the road and gave you a Check of N250,000,000, would that check be an Evidence that you are now a Millionaire? Will that Check serve as an Evidence that you will buy a Bently 2021 model by Monday next week? Would you joyfully and confidently walk into your bank to cash the money?

That is why in Hebrews 11, faith is always connected with Action taken by the Personality:
By Faith Abraham did..
By Faith Abel did...
By Faith Noah did...etc.

I guess that was why James painted it as : Faith without Works is DEAD!

Very good attempt from you. I wish many of my people can distil the difference between Faith and Believing like this.
To your last Question:I both Believe and Have Faith in God.

-Faith is Earned AND Faith can also be a Gift.
-Faith is in Sizes (Great faith, Little Faith, etc)
-We also grow in Faith
-Faith is trusting in the Integrity of God evidenced by your corresponding Action towards it
-There is Faith because God has Spoken and there is Faith because you know God and Faith as a Demand for God's intervention
-Faith is a command for believers

Believing is based on knowledge of God: however, knowing is also Relative. Believing could also be purely intellectual. Faith is ACTING on what you have believed because of KNOWING surely/with certainty that the act will not FAIL your expectation.

I applaud you for this brilliant submission. But I need some clarifications.

You stated, "Faith is ACTING on what you have believed because of KNOWING surely/with certainty that the act will not FAIL your expectation"

1. Isn't knowledge a justified belief? How can one believe what he had known?
2. Since you claim faith is an action, does this mean faith and work are same thing? Did the bible distinguish both?

shadeyinka:
No Sir!
Your Final Choice of taking Tea rather than Coffee was what God saw. If you like, mix both Coffee and Tea: it's your CHOICE and that is exactly what God saw. You can even choose not to take any beverage this morning and that would be exactly what God saw. The Future is NOT cast in stone.


God's Foreknowledge has nothing to do with compelling you to make certain choices. God's Foreknowledge is the expression of His Omnipresence even in TIME and SPACE!

You can Decide what ever you Will at this Time, whatever your present choice at execution time is, is what God has seen: meaning that YOU FOLY have the power to determine whatever God would have seen about you.

Firstly, you need to understand that foreknowledge implies knowing all the possible moves someone will make.

Secondly, Knowing exactly what move someone will make is Omniscience.

And the only way one could know the future is only if we live in a causally determined world. Since God created the universe and set the stream of causes and effects into motion, I would say he is responsible for everything that happens in this universe. And that our choices are only predetermined, hence free will is an illusion.

shadeyinka:
If I had a Time-Machine and can view the News and Happening from tomorrow up till December, have I compelled Buhari, the Senate, BokoHaram, NNPC, FRSC to act in a certain manner so that they can generate the news I've already foreseen?

I got to know the predestination paradox from the movie titled PREDESTINATION. Please read the plot online and you may watch it when you are less busy. If there is a time machine, you can return from the future and correct the unjust killing of Yusuf Mohammad.

Since you can travel within time with this device, one who moved from the future to the past will compel those police from killing Yusuf. While those policemen would think it is their decision not to kill Yusuf, unknowingly to them, it was you who saw the catastrophe of the Boko Haram menace in the future who do compel their decision for your own will.

shadeyinka:
I can only smile at you for you err greatly.
It's just like you telling me that: "shadeyinka, you are not a man!"
Do you expect me to start arguing and proving to you that I'm a man?

Can I move mountains!?
I am still growing my dear. Sometimes it's not so simple having ADEQUATE Faith for the kind of Spiritual intervention Desired. Faith is a SPIRITUAL Currency. I may have N10,000 in my purse and I desire to make a demand for a 160 inch Flat Screen TV at the electronics store. Yes, I have some money, but can my money purchase my desire? No!

The disciples were called by Jesus himself. They believed him, leaving their livelihood and loved ones, they followed Jesus. These guys were mere believers in the ministration of Jesus but could not heal because they were faithless.


Matthew 17:16-19
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Faith as a grain of mustard seed can move mountain. If your own version of Faith is lesser than mustard seed, it then can be regarded as nothing.

Those who have faith and born again receive POWER
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

1 Corinthians
12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
12:9 To another FAITH BY THE SAME SPIRIT; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

You claimed to be born again but do not receive this spirit of faith and power to heal or move mountain, you dey deceive yourself.

shadeyinka:
Exactly why we ALL need to be Born Again.

We are all born destined for destruction as TARES and GOATS.
However, God in His mercies provided "the LAMB of God" as a Sacrifice;
That just as the Bronze Serpent was hung in the Wilderness: So also will this LAMB be hung on a Tree

Just like in the Wilderness: That WHOSOEVER believes in Gods SOLUTION shall NOT Perish, but have their Eternal Life with God
Such People have been GIVEN a New LIFE, New IDENTITY, New SPIRIT (Born Again). The former nature is DEAD, the New nature is LIFE,

No one is perfect. It is a GIFT that you can come to GOD for: Change the course of your Future by what you DO now. Change yourself from Being a TARE or GOAT to one of God's SHEEP.

Lol

shadeyinka:
Can you bring yourself to TRUST God's INTEGRITY?

Maybe when I encounter him like Paul.

Of course all these will happen but i'm just telling you the dimensions through which it will be.
Frankly speaking that's exactly why most people today are calling JWs false prophets because we are focused on the end time events!

shadeyinka:

So surprising you don't understand the signs of the time we are in

2 Peter 3:3-4
Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”

2 Timothy 3:1-4
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

Matthew 24:37
For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course all these will happen but i'm just telling you the dimensions through which it will be.
Frankly speaking that's exactly why most people today are calling JWs false prophets because we are focused on the end time events!

Na!
I think you are called false prophets because your governing body goofed too many times with their prophecies and the fact that your own Jesus is angel Gabriel.

They goofed too many times with their prophecies Bible prophecies!

Note the difference between the two!
They kept emphasizing on the endtime prophecies WRITTEN in the Bible not some predictions that has nothing to do with the scriptures!
For instance your so called men of God often try to predict what will happen to certain persons in places everyone knows where they live like their villages, towns, cities or country, nobody can trace the source of such predictions so all they're trying to do is make people fear them that they have special gifts (powers), that's why they often lay curses on anyone who offends them.
But in the case of the Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES all that matters to them are the INTERPRETATION OF PROPHECIES WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE! Just like all God's servants of old if they err in their assignment it doesn't nullifies them from serving as God's representatives just as God never condemned His imperfect servants who erred in times past.
What you should note is God always support them to help honest hearted and sincere observers know that this imperfect humans are His true servants, how?
God's true servants will accomplish a task that all their contemporaries will SEE that this is impossible for ordinary human to achieve! Matthew 5:14, 7:16-18
So while ignorant critics are complaining due to their error, wise persons from different parts of the world will continue contemplating on their extraordinary accomplishments! Zechariah 8:23
Meditate on that scripture (Zechariah 8:23) note what God said there: ten men from the peoples of the nations will grab the skirt of a Jew and say "we will go with you people because we have heard that God is with you people"
Please ask yourself are the Jews perfect as God's people? the answer is NO! But God is doing things that all other race can SEE and TESTIFY in the midst of the Jews back then!
So if anybody, group of persons or nation stands against the Jews (thinking that they can't be God's people after all they also commit blunders in their midst) their God will exterminate such a persons, group of persons or nation!
That is what you need to know about Jehovah's Witnesses! Isaiah 54:17

shadeyinka:

Na!
I think you are called false prophets because your governing body goofed too many times with their prophecies and the fact that your own Jesus is angel Gabriel archangel Michael.

FOLYKAZE:


Haaaa! Seminary ke.

My sojourn into enlightenment was borne out of curiosity. From my tender age, I yearn to know truth. Curiosity led me into and outside religion. I was never convinced, always thirsty to know the truth. However, I found that if knowing is water, and digging deep is the cup, no matter the quantity I gulped, I am never satisfied. All in all, I never encounter divinity. I stopped digging into abyss and walked my way back into disbelief.

I see.!
Looks like the Word landed on a stoney heart! I judge you not for this and I pray that the next time, the word will find a ready soil in Jesus name.

FOLYKAZE:

I applaud you for this brilliant submission. But I need some clarifications.

You stated, "Faith is ACTING on what you have believed because of KNOWING surely/with certainty that the act will not FAIL your expectation"

1. Isn't knowledge a justified belief? How can one believe what he had known?

Knowlege and Belief are different things

Knowledge: is the assimilation and comprehension of ENOUGH/COMPLETE rules and information to claim CERTAINTY over a situation with respect to TIME. A knowlege could be right or wrong but it is still valid as knowlege.

eg. There was a knowlege that our solar system had 9 planets but not anymore. Pluto has now been downgraded from the status of a planet.


Belief: on the other hand is a projection of INCOMPLETE rules and information over a situation into the future. A belief could be right or wrong but it is still valid as Belief.

eg.
Army Generals plan battles based on their beliefs as most times a complete information of the enemy and their assets are not available.

FOLYKAZE:

2. Since you claim faith is an action, does this mean faith and work are same thing? Did the bible distinguish both?

Faith and Works are different.

Faith can only be demonstrated when a Belief based on the INTEGRITY of a personality is put into Action (works).
eg.
Without Works, it is impossible to prove that you have FAITH in any Personality.

Works are actions or activities people do. It may or may not have ANYTHING to do with Faith or Belief.
eg. An Atheist may do good works of funding an orphanage or helping destitutes, but such has nothing to do with FAITH in any personality

FOLYKAZE:

Firstly, you need to understand that foreknowledge implies knowing all the possible moves someone will make.

Not necessarily Sir!

The only requirement of Foreknowledge is the knowing of the FINAL choice and actions by a person or a group of people. Foreknowledge may also include knowing WHY such final decision is made and the available options before the final choice is made.

FOLYKAZE:

Secondly, Knowing exactly what move someone will make is Omniscience.

True!

FOLYKAZE:


And the only way one could know the future is only if we live in a causally determined world. Since God created the universe and set the stream of causes and effects into motion, I would say he is responsible for everything that happens in this universe. And that our choices are only predetermined, hence free will is an illusion.

Not true Sir!

There are two ways in which one can be certain of the future
1. By Predestination or Causality:
Here, God can set up the future according to some predetermined cause.
2. By Omnipresence in both Time and Space:
Here, God sees any event at any point in time (past, present, future) and space WITHOUT interference.

Justice is meaningless if actions of men are CAUSED. Should God punish rapists and murderers?

FOLYKAZE:

I got to know the predestination paradox from the movie titled PREDESTINATION. Please read the plot online and you may watch it when you are less busy. If there is a time machine, you can return from the future and correct the unjust killing of Yusuf Mohammad.

Since you can travel within time with this device, one who moved from the future to the past will compel those police from killing Yusuf. While those policemen would think it is their decision not to kill Yusuf, unknowingly to them, it was you who saw the catastrophe of the Boko Haram menace in the future who do compel their decision for your own will.

I've read the plot of the movie. You will wonder at the ultimate aim of the "Predestinator". What is his ultimate aim?

FOLYKAZE:

The disciples were called by Jesus himself. They believed him, leaving their livelihood and loved ones, they followed Jesus. These guys were mere believers in the ministration of Jesus but could not heal because they were faithless.


Matthew 17:16-19
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Faith is a Spiritual Currency! The disciples had faith, but not enough to cast out this kind of demon.

When they couldn't cast out this demon, they privately asked Jesus why!
Jesus said: "this kind of demon cannot go except by prayer (tarrying previously in God's presence). In other words, even demons are in heirachy

FOLYKAZE:

Faith as a grain of mustard seed can move mountain. If your own version of Faith is lesser than mustard seed, it then can be regarded as nothing.

Those who have faith and born again receive POWER
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

1 Corinthians
12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
12:9 To another FAITH BY THE SAME SPIRIT; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

You claimed to be born again but do not receive this spirit of faith and power to heal or move mountain, you dey deceive yourself.

Every Christian has been given the power and Authority to heal and cast out demons. Unfortunately, the reality is that we are ALL prone to doubting because the 3D world looks more real, tangible and certain while the realm of miracles is ALWAYS a future thing. It is truely not an easy thing sometimes gathering a mustard seed sized faith.

I still remember my first attempt at casting out a demon. The summary is that it was dissastrous! LOL! But, my experience is that as Christians we carry levels of fire which varies with the level of our intimacy with God. Even tiny faith works when repeatedly applied.

FOLYKAZE:

Lol

That was the gospel in simple terms

FOLYKAZE:

Maybe when I encounter him like Paul.

You don't have the right to determine HOW to know God! However, It doesn't stop you from asking Him if truely that is what you desire.
Even with your senses alone, you can come to a point where believing leads you to Faith.
Mar 2:17:
"When Jesus heard it, he said to them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."


Only those who know they are sick and need God find Him

MaxInDHouse:
They goofed too many times with their prophecies Bible prophecies!

Note the difference between the two!
They kept emphasizing on the endtime prophecies WRITTEN in the Bible not some predictions that has nothing to do with the scriptures!
For instance your so called men of God often try to predict what will happen to certain persons in places everyone knows where they live like their villages, towns, cities or country, nobody can trace the source of such predictions so all they're trying to do is make people fear them that they have special gifts (powers), that's why they often lay curses on anyone who offends them.
But in the case of the Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES all that matters to them are the INTERPRETATION OF PROPHECIES WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE! Just like all God's servants of old if they err in their assignment it doesn't nullifies them from serving as God's representatives just as God never condemned His imperfect servants who erred in times past.
What you should note is God always support them to help honest hearted and sincere observers know that this imperfect humans are His true servants, how?
God's true servants will accomplish a task that all their contemporaries will SEE that this is impossible for ordinary human to achieve! Matthew 5:14, 7:16-18
So while ignorant critics are complaining due to their error, wise persons from different parts of the world will continue contemplating on their extraordinary accomplishments! Zechariah 8:23
Meditate on that scripture (Zechariah 8:23) note what God said there: ten men from the peoples of the nations will grab the skirt of a Jew and say "we will go with you people because we have heard that God is with you people"
Please ask yourself are the Jews perfect as God's people? the answer is NO! But God is doing things that all other race can SEE and TESTIFY in the midst of the Jews back then!
So if anybody, group of persons or nation stands against the Jews (thinking that they can't be God's people after all they also commit blunders in their midst) their God will exterminate such a persons, group of persons or nation!
That is what you need to know about Jehovah's Witnesses! Isaiah 54:17

You are claiming that it was the bible that goofed and not your governing bodies!?

This is what makes you vulnerable to atheists and agnostics so that when you talk they're seeing the insincerity in you therefore they have the assurance that you're just trying to cover up your credulity.
Just listen to yourself.
I asked you a sincere question but instead of giving a honest response you want to turn the table.
Apart from Jesus Christ (the only perfect person who came down from heaven) can you remember any servant of God that never goofed?
Jesus is the son, word of God and he himself is a God {John 1:1} he singlehandedly selected twelve Apostles out of his numerous disciples {Luke 6:13} amongst this twelve is found a traitor (Judas Iscariot) who betrayed Jesus, Peter who publicly denied Jesus three times even laying curses on himself if he knew Jesus at all, Thomas who doubted Jesus' resurrection despite all what Jesus has taught them, and the rest all deserted him at the point of death!
Well let's say this was before their encounter with God's Holy Spirit. But what about after they were anointed with the Holy Spirit?
This group initiated a program that led to the instant loss of a Christian couple!
Certain rich members of the first century Christian congregation wanted to eradicate poverty in their midst, but instead of the Apostles to pray for the direction of God's Holy Spirit they welcome the idea forgetting what Jesus told them:
"For you always have the poor with you, and you can do them good whenever you want to, but you will not always have me" Mark 14:7
The arrangement crashed and they stopped it immediately never to be repeated!
Peter whom Jesus gave the spiritual keys to unlock the sacred secrets of God's Kingdom {Matthew 16:19} truly opened the the heart of his Jewish listeners at Pentecost {Act 2:14-41} but did Peter (the rock) goofed? Yes of course because he though being a servant of the Most High God by the special grace of God began treating his fellow believers with nepotism! Galatians 2:11-14

So ask yourself, if you lived as their contemporary back then in the first century:
Would you humbly submit to the headship of such imperfect humans who often goofed? Act 2:42 compare to Hebrews 13:7
Would you disapprove their ministry due to their blunders and stand on your own?
Who should be blame for your conclusion, imperfect servants of God who often goofed, Jesus Christ (the word of God) who selected them or you?

shadeyinka:

You are claiming that it was the bible that goofed and not your governing bodies!?

@ Shadeyinka

I'm only doing this to prove to you through this discussion that the ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS avoiding me are doing so not because they have anything tangible to say but they're running away from their own conscience that's judging them each time they engage me! Act 26:28
May you have PEACE!

MaxInDHouse:
@ Shadeyinka

I'm only doing this to prove to you through this discussion that the ATHEISTS and AGNOSTICS avoiding me are doing so not because they have anything tangible to say but they're running away from their own conscience that's judging them each time they engage me! Act 26:28
May you have PEACE!

Proverb 26:4

Lol



Shadeyinka once said, why do you quote words of men you do not believe in. I then remember today that Paul cites a pagan poet and philosophers (Epimenides, Menander, Aratus) to condemn his theological foe. Jude also quote from Heresies book which have been removed from the compilation at the council of trent. Jude quoted testament of moses, and book of Enoch. Therefore Yinka, atheists too can quote the bible even when they do not entirely believe in it.

I love this quote Sir!
4 Do not answer the stupid one according to his foolishness, So that you do not put yourself on his level.
Definitely you've always been chatting with wise people claiming Christians on Nairaland answering them according to their divine wisdom!
Surely you're amazed at their level of intelligence! Job 5:13

FOLYKAZE:

Proverb 26:4

MaxInDHouse:
This is what makes you vulnerable to atheists and agnostics so that when you talk they're seeing the insincerity in you therefore they have the assurance that you're just trying to cover up your credulity.
Just listen to yourself.
I asked you a sincere question but instead of giving a honest response you want to turn the table.
Apart from Jesus Christ (the only perfect person who came down from heaven) can you remember any servant of God that never goofed?
Jesus is the son, word of God and he himself is a God {John 1:1} he singlehandedly selected twelve Apostles out of his numerous disciples {Luke 6:13} amongst this twelve is found a traitor (Judas Iscariot) who betrayed Jesus, Peter who publicly denied Jesus three times even laying curses on himself if he knew Jesus at all, Thomas who doubted Jesus' resurrection despite all what Jesus has taught them, and the rest all deserted him at the point of death!
Well let's say this was before their encounter with God's Holy Spirit. But what about after they were anointed with the Holy Spirit?
This group initiated a program that led to the instant loss of a Christian couple!
Certain rich members of the first century Christian congregation wanted to eradicate poverty in their midst, but instead of the Apostles to pray for the direction of God's Holy Spirit they welcome the idea forgetting what Jesus told them:
"For you always have the poor with you, and you can do them good whenever you want to, but you will not always have me" Mark 14:7
The arrangement crashed and they stopped it immediately never to be repeated!
Peter whom Jesus gave the spiritual keys to unlock the sacred secrets of God's Kingdom {Matthew 16:19} truly opened the the heart of his Jewish listeners at Pentecost {Act 2:14-41} but did Peter (the rock) goofed? Yes of course because he though being a servant of the Most High God by the special grace of God began treating his fellow believers with nepotism! Galatians 2:11-14

So ask yourself, if you lived as their contemporary back then in the first century:
Would you humbly submit to the headship of such imperfect humans who often goofed? Act 2:42 compare to Hebrews 13:7
Would you disapprove their ministry due to their blunders and stand on your own?
Who should be blame for your conclusion, imperfect servants of God who often goofed, Jesus Christ (the word of God) who selected them or you?

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds.

Did your governing body not Prophesy Falsehood!?


Ezekiel 13:6
They see falsehood and lying divination who are saying, ‘The Lord declares,’ when the Lord has not sent them ; yet they hope for the fulfillment of their word.

Did the Lord send send your governing body!?


Jeremiah 23:21
“I did not send these prophets,
But they ran.
I did not speak to them,
But they prophesied.

Did your governing body not repeatedly run with the false dates and events!?

Jeremiah 29:31
“Send to all the exiles, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord concerning Shemaiah the Nehelamite, “Because Shemaiah has prophesied to you, although I did not send him, and he has made you trust in a lie,”

Didn't your governing body make you JW's trust in Lies?

Jeremiah 23:16
Thus says the Lord of hosts,
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
They are leading you into futility;
They speak a vision of their own imagination,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.

Didn't your governing body speak from their own imagination?

Ezekiel 13:2-5
“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy from their own inspiration, ‘Listen to the word of the Lord! Thus says the Lord God, “Woe to the foolish prophets who are following their own spirit and have seen nothing. O Israel, your prophets have been like foxes among ruins.

Did your governing body really see anything!?


Ezekiel 22:28
Her prophets have smeared whitewash for them, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord God,’ when the Lord has not spoken.

Did God speak to your governing body!?


Please keep quiet!

shadeyinka:

Jeremiah 14:14
Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds.
Did your governing body not Prophesy Falsehood!?

Ezekiel 13:6
They see falsehood and lying divination who are saying, ‘The Lord declares,’ when the Lord has not sent them ; yet they hope for the fulfillment of their word.
Did the Lord send send your governing body!?
Jeremiah 23:21
“I did not send these prophets,
But they ran.
I did not speak to them,
But they prophesied.
Did your governing body not repeatedly run with the false dates and events!?
Jeremiah 29:31
“Send to all the exiles, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord concerning Shemaiah the Nehelamite, “Because Shemaiah has prophesied to you, although I did not send him, and he has made you trust in a lie,”
Didn't your governing body make you JW's trust in Lies?
Jeremiah 23:16
Thus says the Lord of hosts,
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
They are leading you into futility;
They speak a vision of their own imagination,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.
Didn't your governing body speak from their own imagination?
Ezekiel 13:2-5
“Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy from their own inspiration, ‘Listen to the word of the Lord! Thus says the Lord God, “Woe to the foolish prophets who are following their own spirit and have seen nothing. O Israel, your prophets have been like foxes among ruins.
Did your governing body really see anything!?
Ezekiel 22:28
Her prophets have smeared whitewash for them, seeing false visions and divining lies for them, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord God,’ when the Lord has not spoken.
Did God speak to your governing body!?

From all these quotations there is one thing you keep dodging Sir, God always use a prophet each time to debunk the false prophecies of the false prophets.
So the question you need to answer is:
Can you present, point, mention, name or tell me the person or group of persons serving as God's true prophets of our time? Because in each of the instances a prophet was sent to expose false prophets, therefore if you can IDENTIFY the false prophets of your time you should also be able to IDENTIFY the true prophets serving as contemporaries of the false prophets!

I told you that the Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are serving as God's representatives of our time but let's assume they are FAKE, can you present the true ones? Or are you of the opinion that there are no servants of the true God in your own generation?

Well i've shown you that God's servants of old often commit blunders due to their imperfection and that despite their folly God often give signs that will help honest hearted and sincere individuals IDENTIFY them as His chosen ones.

The Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are serving as the watchman on the WATCHTOWER and they are always AWAKE, each time they alert us of certain impending calamity we often see the sign so all of us in the city of refuge will always appreciate them because we are seeing the signs that God is with them! Zechariah 8:23

Please keep quiet!

I can see how bitter you're as you are struggling to refute the obvious, so it's you that must avoid me just like your atheist and agnostic cohorts!

MaxInDHouse:


From all these quotations there is one thing you keep dodging Sir, God always use a prophet each time to debunk the false prophecies of the false prophets.
So the question you need to answer is:
Can you present, point, mention, name or tell me the person or group of persons serving as God's true prophets of our time? Because in each of the instances a prophet was sent to expose false prophets, therefore if you can IDENTIFY the false prophets of your time you should also be able to IDENTIFY the true prophets serving as contemporaries of the false prophets!

I told you that the Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are serving as God's representatives of our time but let's assume they are FAKE, can you present the true ones? Or are you of the opinion that there are no servants of the true God in your own generation?

Well i've shown you that God's servants of old often commit blunders due to their imperfection and that despite their folly God often give signs that will help honest hearted and sincere individuals IDENTIFY them as His chosen ones.

The Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are serving as the watchman on the WATCHTOWER and they are always AWAKE, each time they alert us of certain impending calamity we often see the sign so all of us in the city of refuge will always appreciate them because we are seeing the signs that God is with them! Zechariah 8:23



I can see how bitter you're as you are struggling to refute the obvious, so it's you that must avoid me just like your atheist and agnostic cohorts!

The evidence is well seen that the governing body of the JW organisation were NOT sent by God. If they were sent by God, God cannot lie!

QED!

MaxInDHouse:


I told you that the Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are serving as God's representatives of our time but let's assume they are FAKE, can you present the true ones? Or are you of the opinion that there are no servants of the true God in your own generation?

Every single saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah is his representative here on Earth.

MaxInDHouse:

Well i've shown you that God's servants of old often commit blunders due to their imperfection and that despite their folly God often give signs that will help honest hearted and sincere individuals IDENTIFY them as His chosen ones.

Max, mention some of the prophets and their blunder.

MaxInDHouse:

The Governing Body of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are serving as the watchman on the WATCHTOWER and they are always AWAKE, each time they alert us of certain impending calamity we often see the sign so all of us in the city of refuge will always appreciate them because we are seeing the signs that God is with them! Zechariah 8:23

Every saint, servant and messenger of Yahushua the Messiah - I mean every single one - is his witness and a kind of watchman here in this world

shadeyinka:

The evidence is well seen that the governing body of the JW organisation were NOT sent by God. If they were sent by God, God cannot lie!
QED!

NO wahala nah!
God cannot lie and God always PRESENT His true servants after exposing false religionsts. So who are the servants of God that are feeding God's people in our time? Matthew 24:45

What you don't know i will tell you today!
[b]There is no difference between you and atheist and the agnostic. Note that the atheist only want God to show His face before he will believe in Him, the agnostic can't say for sure if God exists or not but he feels even if God exists nobody has His direct link. You are now saying the one and only group performing up to expectation as God's word foretold regarding His representatives in our time are FAKE, OK present the ORIGINAL you became silent!

So know today Shadeyinka that you're an atheist if you can't PRESENT God's true ministers because that's tantamount to saying God doesn't exist. As there can never be a God without representatives serving as priests!

elated177:

Every single saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah is his representative here on Earth.

Every single member of JWs no matter where you find him or her is a representative of my own God but we also have those feeding us with spiritual food in our midst, we call them Christ's brothers. But if you're not one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES i'm sorry our God doesn't know you. So if you conclude that we are Satan's agents or Cult we will appreciate it than accepting you (a none JW) as one of us!

Max, mention some of the prophets and their blunder.

Those i mentioned regarding the CHRISTIANS what have you got to say about it, Jesus said the Christians are greater than all ancient servants of God {Matthew 11:11} and our Governing Body are also born again CHRISTIANS!

Every saint, servant and messenger of Yahushua the Messiah - I mean every single one - is his witness and a kind of watchman here in this world

If you're not one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES i'm sorry our own God doesn't know you! John 4:22

MaxInDHouse:


NO wahala nah!
God cannot lie and God always PRESENT His true servants after exposing false religionsts. So who are the servants of God that are feeding God's people in our time? Matthew 24:45

What you don't know i will tell you today!
[b]There is no difference between you and atheist and the agnostic. Note that the atheist only want God to show His face before he will believe in Him, the agnostic can't say for sure if God exists or not but he feels even if God exists nobody has His direct link. You are now saying the one and only group performing up to expectation as God's word foretold regarding His representatives in our time are FAKE, OK present the ORIGINAL you became silent!

So know today Shadeyinka that you're an atheist if you can't PRESENT God's true ministers because that's tantamount to saying God doesn't exist. As there can never be a God without representatives serving as priests!

When an adult begin to reason like a child: what else is there to say?

NOTHING!!!!!

So it's about adult reasoning like a child shey?

No wahala your cohorts will like and share what you say but if you can't point to the original except the fake then it simply means there is no authorised maker.
If you don't know God's representatives around you then it means you don't believe in God, THERE CAN'T BE A GOD WITHOUT PRIESTS, you and i may claim we are worshipers of God but i'm presenting the priests of my own God (GOVERNING BODY of Jehovah's Witnesses) so who are the priests of your own God Shadeyinka?

shadeyinka:

When an adult begin to reason like a child: what else is there to say?
NOTHING!!!!!

MaxInDHouse:

Every single member of JWs no matter where you find him or her is a representative of my own God but we also have those feeding us with spiritual food in our midst, we call them Christ's brothers. But if you're not one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES i'm sorry our God doesn't know you. So if you conclude that we are Satan's agents or Cult we will appreciate it than accepting you (a none JW) as one of us!

El Elohe Yahshrael!

Isaiah 44: Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”


Acts 1: 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Maxindahouse, I am not a member of your group.
I am a witness of YHVH ALMIGHTY, and by that very fact, a witness of Yahushua the Messiah in this world. I am Yahushua the Messiah's witness in this world, and by that very fact, a witness of his Father, YHVH ALMIGHTY, in this world. That does not make me a member of your group. I belong to the Body of the Messiah. I don't belong to your group, maxindahouse. Your founder(s) did not originate the description "witness of YHVH."

Every single saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah is his brother or his sister.

Again, I am a witness of my God, YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, the one and only true God, and his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah. I am okay with that. YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, knows me. That is all that matters.

My God, YHVH of Hosts, the one and true God, knows every single human being on the surface of the earth. He knows all those who have passed through the surface of the earth. He knows those who will pass through the surface of the earth. He knows those who were, who are and who will be his.

Whatever you call yourselves is your business. I don't desire to be member of your group. So, no, thanks.

MaxInDHouse:

Those i mentioned regarding the CHRISTIANS what have you got to say about it, Jesus said the Christians are greater than all ancient servants of God {Matthew 11:11} and our Governing Body are also born again CHRISTIANS!

What are you talking about? I asked you to mention some of the prophets and the blunder which you said they committed.

MaxInDHouse:

If you're not one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES i'm sorry our own God doesn't know you! John 4:22

Again, I am a witness of my God, YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, the one and only true God, and his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah, in this world. I am okay with that. YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, knows me. That is all that matters.


So, maxindahouse, I am one of the witnesses of YHVH ALMIGHTY and his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah, in this world. But I am not a member of your group.

elated177:

El Elohe Yahshrael!
Isaiah 44: Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Acts 1: 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Maxindahouse, I am not a member of your group.
I am a witness of YHVH ALMIGHTY, and by that very fact, a witness of Yahushua the Messiah in this world. I am Yahushua the Messiah's witness in this world, and by that very fact, a witness of his Father, YHVH ALMIGHTY, in this world. That does not make me a member of your group. I belong to the Body of the Messiah. I don't belong to your group, maxindahouse. Your founder(s) did not originate the description "witness of YHVH."
Every single saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah is his brother or his sister.
Again, I am a witness of my God, YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, the one and only true God, and his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah. I am okay with that. YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, knows me. That is all that matters.
My God, YHVH of Hosts, the one and true God, knows every single human being on the surface of the earth. He knows all those who have passed through the surface of the earth. He knows those who will pass through the surface of the earth. He knows those who were, who are and who will be his.
Whatever you call yourselves is your business. I don't desire to be member of your group. So, no, thanks.

I'm not disputing that, every religionsts is a witness of his/her God so you're a witness of your own God but definitely not a witness of my own God!

What are you talking about? I asked you to mention some of the prophets and the blunder which you said they committed.

MaxInDHouse:
Apart from Jesus Christ (the only perfect person who came down from heaven) can you remember any servant of God that never goofed?
Jesus is the son, word of God and he himself is a God {John 1:1} he singlehandedly selected twelve Apostles out of his numerous disciples {Luke 6:13} amongst this twelve is found a traitor (Judas Iscariot) who betrayed Jesus, Peter who publicly denied Jesus three times even laying curses on himself if he knew Jesus at all, Thomas who doubted Jesus' resurrection despite all what Jesus has taught them, and the rest all deserted him at the point of death!
Well let's say this was before their encounter with God's Holy Spirit. But what about after they were anointed with the Holy Spirit?
This group initiated a program that led to the instant loss of a Christian couple!
Certain rich members of the first century Christian congregation wanted to eradicate poverty in their midst, but instead of the Apostles to pray for the direction of God's Holy Spirit they welcome the idea forgetting what Jesus told them:
"For you always have the poor with you, and you can do them good whenever you want to, but you will not always have me" Mark 14:7
The arrangement crashed and they stopped it immediately never to be repeated!
Peter whom Jesus gave the spiritual keys to unlock the sacred secrets of God's Kingdom {Matthew 16:19} truly opened the the heart of his Jewish listeners at Pentecost {Act 2:14-41} but did Peter (the rock) goofed? Yes of course because he though being a servant of the Most High God by the special grace of God began treating his fellow believers with nepotism! Galatians 2:11-14

Again, I am a witness of my God, YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, the one and only true God, and his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah, in this world. I am okay with that. YHVH Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, knows me. That is all that matters.
So, maxindahouse, I am one of the witnesses of YHVH ALMIGHTY and his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah, in this world. But I am not a member of your group.

Yes you are a witness of your own God!

MaxInDHouse:



I'm not disputing that, every religionsts is a witness of his/her God so you're a witness of your own God but definitely not a witness of my own God!

Which one is religionist, kwanu?

Maxindahouse, I, Elated177, am YHVH's witness in this world. And because I am YHVH's witness, I am Yahushua's witness. I know that my response shocked you. Ehehehehe! Every single saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah is his witness here on earth. However, maxindahouse, I am not a member of your group.

I, Elated177, worship the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, YHVH Almighty. I am his witness. All those who obey his Commandments are also his witnesses, and by that very fact, the witnesses of his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah.

Maxindahouse, which god do you worship?

MaxInDHouse:


Yes you are a witness of your own God!

Ehehehehe! I laugh in Mbaise!

Maxindahouse, my own God is the Creator of heaven and earth, YHVH Almighty. I am his saint, servant, messenger, representative, ambassador and witness here in this world.

Maxindahouse, who is your own God?

I have read and understood what you're claiming so i know you truthfully belong to a God and your God claims he is the Creator of Heaven and Earth, surely you will say exactly the same thing that all religionsts often say.
But my own God differs from yours that's what i'm saying!
To illustrate, if two persons wants to talk about their father both will say something like "My father this, my father that" but an intelligent listener will not conclude they're of the same father simply because they both have and are calling "FATHER"
A wise listener will ask each person to describe the attributes, characters and of course how each father relates with his children, by so doing everyone will perceive if they're both referring to the same person or different persons!

For instance, my own God sent one of his spirit sons named Michael (archangel) to come and live as a human in replacement of Adam. His human name is Jesus. Is that the same person you're talking about?

elated177:

Which one is religionist, kwanu?
Maxindahouse, I, Elated177, am YHVH's witness in this world. And because I am YHVH's witness, I am Yahushua's witness. I know that my response shocked you. Ehehehehe! Every single saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah is his witness here on earth. However, maxindahouse, I am not a member of your group.
I, Elated177, worship the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, YHVH Almighty. I am his witness. All those who obey his Commandments are also his witnesses, and by that very fact, the witnesses of his begotten Son, Yahushua the Messiah. Maxindahouse, which god do you worship? Ehehehehe! I laugh in Mbaise!
Maxindahouse, my own God is the Creator of heaven and earth, YHVH Almighty. I am his saint, servant, messenger, representative, ambassador and witness here in this world.
Maxindahouse, who is your own God?

MaxInDHouse:
I have read and understood what you're claiming so i know you truthfully belong to a God and your God claims he is the Creator of Heaven and Earth, surely you will say exactly the same thing that all religionsts often say.

Maxindahouse, I don't worship a god. I worship the one and only true God, the Creator of heaven and earth, YHVH Almighty.

No need to dilly dally or shilly shally over this issue. It is actually a simple matter. Anyone who claims to worship the Creator of heaven and earth must, at least, display a little of his Power in this world. The Creator of heaven and earth made all the natural phenomena, such as rain, wind, sun, moon, star, thunder and lightning, etc, and the laws that govern them. Since he made them and the laws that govern them, he can freely exercise authority over them. Don't you agree?

Anyone who claims to be a saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah in this world must display, at least, little of the Messiah's Power in this world. Yahushua the Messiah did not leave his saints, servants and messengers without Power. Nope! That Power is the Set-apart Spirit. Don't you agree, maxindahouse?

MaxInDHouse:

But my own God differs from yours that's what i'm saying!

Well, you may be right about this because I don't know you. I have never had any kind of dealings with you. I don't know the kind of fruits you bear. So, I can't really say that the two of us worship the same God till I see the fruits you bear. My Master and Saviour, Yahushua the Messiah, the begotten Son of YHVH Almighty, said that all his saints, servants and messengers will be recognized by the fruits we will bear in this world.

MaxInDHouse:

To illustrate, if two persons wants to talk about their father both will say something like "My father this, my father that" but an intelligent listener will not conclude they're of the same father simply because they both have and are calling "FATHER"
A wise listener will ask each person to describe the attributes, characters and of course how each father relates with his children, by so doing everyone will perceive if they're both referring to the same person or different persons!

Exactly, maxindahouse. My threads have copiously described the attributes of the God I worship. His Spirit in me helps me show his attributes in this world.

MaxInDHouse:

For instance, my own God sent one of his spirit sons named Michael (archangel) to come and live as a human in replacement of Adam. His human name is Jesus. Is that the same person you're talking about?

I don't think that I will discuss this with you. My Master Yahushua the Messiah never called him Michael. He is the Word of the Father. So, you are free to choose the one you want to believe.

elated177:

Maxindahouse, I don't worship a god. I worship the one and only true God, the Creator of heaven and earth, YHVH Almighty.

Now i know what is confusing you. You worship one (a) God just as i also worship one (a) God, of course just as yours claimed he's the Almighty so mine too claims!

No need to dilly dally or shilly shally over this issue. It is actually a simple matter. Anyone who claims to worship the Creator of heaven and earth must, at least, display a little of his Power in this world. The Creator of heaven and earth made all the natural phenomena, such as rain, wind, sun, moon, star, thunder and lightning, etc, and the laws that govern them. Since he made them and the laws that govern them, he can freely exercise authority over them. Don't you agree? Anyone who claims to be a saint, servant or messenger of Yahushua the Messiah in this world must display, at least, little of the Messiah's Power in this world. Yahushua the Messiah did not leave his saints, servants and messengers without Power. Nope! That Power is the Set-apart Spirit. Don't you agree, maxindahouse?

There are demons claiming God almighty everywhere and to keep their worshipers hostage in darkness they all give spectacular signs {Revelations 16:14} of all those claiming worshipers of God on this planet there is none that's not backed by some supernatural force to perform wonders of some sort that's why you're seeing worshipers even in the most stupid kind of faith Sir!

Well, you may be right about this because I don't know you. I have never had any kind of dealings with you. I don't know the kind of fruits you bear. So, I can't really say that the two of us worship the same God till I see the fruits you bear. My Master and Saviour, Yahushua the Messiah, the begotten Son of YHVH Almighty, said that all his saints, servants and messengers will be recognized by the fruits we will bear in this world.

I don't need to see a worshiper of my own God before i can testify that he or she is my fellow believer {2Corinthians 5:7} all i need to know is the likes and dislikes of his God once it tallies with that of my own God then i'll tell you the person you're talking about must be my brother or sister in Faith! John 4:24 compare to John 17:20-23; Philippians 2:2

Exactly, maxindahouse. My threads have copiously described the attributes of the God I worship. His Spirit in me helps me show his attributes in this world.

YES! The spirit of each God dwells in the heart of their worshipers so it's the attributes of different Gods that will help honest hearted observers to IDENTIFY them! Matthew 7:16-18

I don't think that I will discuss this with you. My Master Yahushua the Messiah never called him Michael. He is the Word of the Father. So, you are free to choose the one you want to believe.

I already know you and i aren't worshiping the same God from the onset due to the way you came into the thread but it's OK worshipers of my own God are everywhere on the planet, once they read my post no matter where they are they will say:
"The one who typed this post is one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES (our fellow believer)" 1Corinthians 1:10

May you have PEACE!