OkCornel:

Where in the scriptures did you read the serpent slept with Eve and conceived Cain?
This is what the scripture states;
Genesis 4 v 1;
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
Can you show us where the Serpent slept with Eve? Or you now know more than what is written in the scriptures
Cc: Kobojunkie, MaxinDHouse, Jesusjnr2020

Oh you're just realizing that this people don't believe in what is written in the Bible shey?

Well you're welcome to the gathering of those hearing the TRUTH from the Holy Ghost that's more authentic than what God's Holy Spirit inspired Bible writers to pen down!

Splinz:


You were everywhere with a supposed demarcation where Jesus supposedly introduced a new law as against and that so-called demarcation which you think was to show a neighbor from an enemy or show a supposed new teaching, was conveniently refuted, with a challenge still untouched.

And all you could come up with is this funny excuse, really? Unbelievable.



No such clearance as far as Matthew 5:43-44 is concerned. It doesn't exist; no demarcation.

By the way, don't forget your task.

Simply use the scriptures to demonstrate where your enemy is also your neighbor. Guess what? You can’t. You’re inserting your own interpretation into the scriptures, whereas I’m letting the scriptures speak for itself.

If your enemies are also considered to be neighbors, just explain why Jesus said these words below. This is too simple and straightforward. No running around.

Matthew 5 v 43-44;

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?


And to add dear Splinz, in the parable of the Good Samaritan, are you also implying the robbers that attacked the traveller, and the Priest & Levite that ignored him are also his neighbors? Don’t dodge this question.

Splinz:


Was it ever applicable in the Old Testament?

No need for the roundabout games.
Did God instruct Israel to kill off the Amalekites in the Old Testament, and forbid them to have dealings with the Moabites and Ammonites in the Old Testament?

If yes,

Did Jesus preach his followers to now love all their enemies in the New Testament? Yes or No.

awitness41:


And I respectfully disagree with your particular discernment on this one, also.

But it's okay... we can agree to disagree agreeably (kindly) on this one, and simply move on..

Thank you brother for understanding, for my disagreement with you is on the basis of Identification of other Laws, apart from The Commandments, which God also Established eg. "Can one go upon hot coals and not be burnt?"; Where the carcass is there shall the eagles be gathered, whatsoever ye plant, that shall ye take up again"!.

These are Fixed Laws too and one of my basis of this assertion is "whatsoever ye plant, that shall ye take up again"!. Which follows The Law of "After its own kind", which is still connected to The Law of "An evil tree can only bear evil fruits"

So you have got to give me A Law which completely sets aside these Laws, which is why we disagree.

I hope I did not waste.your time? I apologize if I did!

awitness41:
OkCornel, this is from my former post, regarding the Parable of the Good Samitaran:

To Which you replied:

When I wrote that line, OkC, I had two thoughts in mind.
The first thought I had was that OkC hates his own enemies. (Again, I do not say that in condemnation of you, as we can all get a bit over the top when heatedly debating Scripture... please allow me to explain more below).
The second thought I had was from the perspective of the robbery victim... did he hate his enemies ?
Did he forgive them, at least for his own sake for peace ?
We don't know.
But then I was reminded of some Scripture then about not hating enemies... the Scripture I noted below that regarding Jesus being nailed to the Cross, the stoning of Stephen, and Jesus healing Malchus' ear.

Regarding why I think you hate your own enemies, Okc.. and again, please take no offense to this, but just read it... let me use you as an example here to try to have others in this thread look at themselves in the same mirror, for many are guilty in this place.
And also, please... first forgive me for offending you.
It's no skin off my back to say that, because as I read back through some of your posts here, it's true that you didn't seem to personally condone hating one's enemies.

That said, and again, please know I mean no offense and hope you can receive this without taking offense:
You surely know you are a fairly strict "literalist", and on purpose.
For example, if it does not say "Love your enemies" in the Old Testament explicity (without any discernment), you will never
see any discernment of such a thing as valid.
But many in here believe God's Commandments, and all He does, are based on Love, even amidst the realities of the world having been, and still being, a bad place. And Jesus says so too - Matthew 22:40 - all the Law and the prophets "hang on" (are founded on) the 2 Most Important Commandments to Love.
As I told you before, God will sometimes kill if He is forced to, to remove the un-salvageable people from the earth (just as He will at the end). And only God and Jesus know who the un-salvageable are.
So when you keep pointing out Verses where harsh realities had to be carried out, it of course, rightly or wrongly, makes people think you don't see God's Love in the Old Testament.

That said... and this is for everyone, not just Okc, but EVERYONE... Jesus says the following in Matthew 5:21-22 (NKJV):
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council.
But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

It's one thing to rebuke someone as a liar IF they actually are (and we don't hate them).
It's one thing to rebuke someone as a son of the devil IF they actually are (it doesn't mean they are un-salvageable, nor should we hate them).
But be warned by Jesus... first of all, "Raca" means "empty-head".
It's just like calling someone stupid (or the like), which too many people do not only in here, but out in the world.
Even "the council", or even all carnal people, know this to be an insult, and it should not be used by supposed-Christian people.
Then Jesus tells us we shouldn't even name call at all, such as using "Fool!", because even this type of thing is used flippantly so often, that it's essentially meaningless, usually only driven by our own self-righteousness and hatred toward someone.
Thus it is murder, and it puts us in danger of Hell Fire.
If we do this, we are also hating our enemies, which is also against what Jesus taught.
We all know if this convicts us or not, and we all need to keep persisting with the Lord.

I’m not offended, I’m stating the scriptures as it is, it doesn’t make me a literalist. I’m stating the facts.

Oh, and I guess Paul might also be in danger of hell since he referred to the Galatians as foolish, or is there a special exception for him?

Galatians 3 v 1;
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


And for the records, I don’t hate anyone… it’s a waste of mental energy and distraction to me. Life is too short for that nonsense. However, I’m fully against false doctrine and whatever is contrary to scriptures. Especially if it’s glaring the other person knows this and is just being pig headed about it.

My question still stands though;
By your own admission, there were some unsalveagable people who God killed or permitted to be killed (like the Amalekites) in the Old Testament.

Please can you show us where in the New Testament Jesus permitted his followers to hate and kill these people rather than love them?

Because certain liars are walking around claiming Jesus didn’t bring new commandments. Thanks

OkCornel:


Where in the scriptures did you read the serpent slept with Eve and conceived Cain?

I have already acknowledged that it was not expressly stated in the Bible but it is not an unusual thing to do this for there are many facts which we believe, which are not Expressly Stated in the Bible eg, Cain married his sister, "Enoch did not die," it was Christ Who spoke with Abraham in Genesis.

All these were inferred from Facts Expressly Given.

Dtruthspeaker:


I have already acknowledged that it was not expressly stated in the Bible but it is not an unusual thing to do this for there are many facts which we believe, which are not Expressly Stated in the Bible eg, Cain married his sister, "Enoch did not die," it was Christ Who spoke with Abraham in Genesis.

All these were inferred from Facts Expressly Given.

Who Cain married is another can of worms entirely.

However, who Cain’s father is was expressly stated in Genesis 4 v 1, unless there is good and sufficient evidence to prove that scripture contrary.

OkCornel:


No need for the roundabout games.

This is roundabout games:

OkCornel:


I’m repeating these questions because you have given no scriptural reference that proves;

1. Your enemy is also your neighbor.
2. The Torah (Specifically exodus to Deuteronomy) instructed Israelites to love their enemies!

Cornel, I find it rather amusing that you could be this way. How convenience it is for you to suddenly, like a typical skewed fellow, switched from what was earlier asked to now asking of Moabites and Ammonites, without first admitting that you goofed when you made that unfortunate statement. Your pack of cards came crashing and you immediately find straws to hang on.

The question you're shamelessly avoiding and going round in circles is: Were the Egyptians and Edomites for example, Israel's friends or enemies? Did God instruct Israel to hate and kill them off?

Only when you fundamentally addressed the original bone of contention can any other question from you be taken serious. But of course as expected, you can continue spinning round in circles.

How shameless.

OkCornel:


Who Cain married is another can of worms entirely.

However, who Cain’s father is was expressly stated in Genesis 4 v 1, unless there is good and sufficient evidence to prove that scripture contrary.

That is what I am after. I know I have good evidence and sufficient for me but depending on how high and low the standard of Proof is to another person, it may not be sufficient for them.

OkCornel:


If your enemies are also considered to be neighbors, just explain why Jesus said these words below. This is too simple and straightforward. No running around.

Matthew 5 v 43-44;

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

Conveniently explained and dusted, with an unfinished task still standing. Do you have problems with comprehension?

By the way, go ahead and call other friends. Perhaps our friend, MaxInDHouse or any other person can be of assistance to you in solving the task. And like I promised, I'd humbly tender my apologies. Also, when this task has been done, I promise to address Luke 10. But for now, we have an unfinished business with Matthew 5:43-44.

Splinz:


This is roundabout games:

Cornel, I find it rather amusing that you could be this way. How convenience it is for you to suddenly, like a typical skewed fellow, switched from what was earlier asked to now asking of Moabites and Ammonites, without first admitting that you goofed when you made that unfortunate statement. Your pack of cards came crashing and you immediately find straws to hang on.

The question you're shamelessly avoiding and going round in circles is: Were the Egyptians and Edomites for example, Israel's friends or enemies? Did God instruct Israel to hate and kill them off?

Only when you fundamentally addressed the original bone of contention can any other question from you be taken serious. But of course as expected, you can continue spinning round in circles.

How shameless.

Were the Ammonites, Amalekites and Moabites also enemies to Israel? If yes, can you show us where God instructed these enemies to be loved in the Torah?

And while at it, also prove to us if the robbers who attacked the traveller, and the Levite and Priest that ignored him are also his neighbors.

Perhaps you know more than Christ.


In all that you’ve stated, you haven’t pulled out one scripture that proves your enemies can be your neighbor, and all enemies can be loved in the Torah unlike the New Testament.

If you can’t, then we know who the dishonest person is here.

Still waiting…

Dtruthspeaker:


That is what I am after. I know I have good evidence and sufficient for me but depending on how high and low the standard of Proof is to another person, it may not be sufficient for them.

Alright, share what you’ve got.

Splinz:


Conveniently explained and dusted, with an unfinished task still standing. Do you have problems with comprehension?

By the way, go ahead and call other friends. Perhaps our friend, MaxInDHouse or any other person can be of assistance to you in solving the task. And like I promised, I'd humbly tender my apologies. Also, when this task has been done, I promise to address Luke 10. But for now, we have an unfinished business with Matthew 5:43-44.

In Matthew 5 v 43-44, is your enemy also considered a neighbor?

jesusjnr2020:


It wasn't a Law so who said it?

Brother, this question has been answered already.

jesusjnr2020:

That you can't find where the Law was precisely written or stated, doesn't mean it wasn't a Law, because for Jesus to say "it was said", that alone should tell you that it was a commandment given either directly or indirectly to the people of Israel.

The towering question still remains: Who gave the people such a law or commandment; who said it? Because as far as the scripture is concerned, God never did, either directly by Himself or indirectly through any of His prophets. So who did?

The one other option left is fable or tradition. And since when did Christians start believing fables as doctrines or commandments?

I want us to understand something very simple here. No one is above mistake. Personally, it cost me nothing to say sorry when I am wrong or to own my mistakes. But you see this very attitude of wanting to win arguments and not to learn, it's very dangerous, especially to a supposed Christian, honestly.

Can we all agree that Matthew 5:43 is what it is or continue deceiving ourselves?[/quote]

jesusjnr2020:


It wasn't a Law so who said it?

That you can't find where the Law was precisely written or stated, doesn't mean it wasn't a Law, because for Jesus to say "it was said", that alone should tell you that it was a commandment given either directly or indirectly to the people of Israel.

However if you want to use that as an excuse to insist that Jesus didn't amend the Law of Moses, what about the Law on divorce? Do you deny the fact that it was a Law also?

If it was, what did Jesus do to it?

Wrong!

Christ did not say "it was said" as you wish to cut it to, but He Specifically said "“You have heard that it was said," meaning "you hear say" which is a hearsay as I have already answered here before, therefore not the Law but People's sayings, therefore your reliance on it fails!

Now to your fresh issue of Divorce, Did Christ not Specifically say "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. "

Meaning the Law has Always being the same from even the beginning and had not changed but rather it was Moses who gave the instruction and not the Law who Instructed, because of the Hardness of their hearts as Christ Expressly Stated!

Therefore Christ Did Not Change the Law but rather set it aright so all may know the Law as it has Always been from the Beginning, so you fall once again!

OkCornel:


And while at it, also prove to us if the robbers who attacked the traveller, and the Levite and Priest that ignored him are also his neighbors.

And the dance of shame continues, and this is obvious to even the blind.

I'd wait till evening to see if you'll be able to come up with anything tangible. What a shame it'd be that you can't even make an attempt on the given task.

C'mon Cornel, you can do better. Call for help if you can, it's allowed.

OkCornel:


Alright, share what you’ve got.

1) The Law of After their own Kind/An Evil Tree bears evil Fruit, plus, The Law that God can not give an evil thing, therefore, where does Cain come from? Whose Seed is he?

2) Why do we see excessive wickedness and evil in women? As crime, family and romance section have cried out? Where did that come?

3) She obeyed Satan, it is seen women do not obey strangers but lovers, so did she do more than just talk with Satan? (I imply sex)

4) We all see that women know something we the men, do not know, (though they act as though they never know what they are doing, until they strike) therefore what is it that they know, which they are not saying?

5) Then God Cursed her pregnancy (FIRST) Why?

6) Was Something already in there Already which God Cursed?

There are many questions and too many evidence in support and in answer to these questions but I can not bring them all at once.

OkCornel:


In Matthew 5 v 43-44, is your enemy also considered a neighbor?

The answer is here: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

Find it. You're wasting time Cornel. Luke 10 is waiting.

truespeak:


Wrong!

Christ did not say "it was said" as you wish to cut it to, but He Specifically said "“You have heard that it was said," meaning "you hear say" which is a hearsay as I have already answered here before, therefore not the Law but People's sayings, therefore your reliance on it fails!

Refreshing. Thank you.

By the way, have you seen the simple task I gave to OkCornel? Check it: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

I was hoping he'll smack it down immediately but unfortunately, he is nowhere to be found around that task. Do you have someone that may assist him?

Splinz:


No Cornel, no such demarcation exist in verse 43 neither is verse 44 a supposed new teaching or commandment. Careless reading is why you're seeing it that way.

Now, let's look at it one more time:



The question is: Where or from whom did the people hear such a law or commandment from? Who taught or authored such law? Did God or any of His prophets teach or gave such law? Just, who said it? If anyone can find any of this answer to these questions in the scripture, I'd gladly tender an apology to such person. Anyone up for the challenge?

Cornel, understand. What Jesus said in verse 43 was neither an existing law nor affirmation of such law or commandment, supposedly from God or any of His prophets. Rather, what Jesus stated there was simply the tradition or teaching of the people. We all know the Pharisees right? This people, being that they were teachers of the law and scholars of the time, were notorious in churning out all sort of laws, rules, teachings, customs and traditions, that God has not authorized, all in a bid to be seen as righteous or men of high repute.

As an example of the Pharisees excesses, take a look at Mark 7:4-16, and see how Jesus call out their madness.

Lastly I repeat, Jesus neither stated an existing law or commandment from God nor affirms such. Rather, He was telling the people to do away with such practice and embrace verse 44, which has always been God's position. In any case, the challenge still stands for anyone to try. I shall wait for a response.

This thing is too simple.

Bring out the biblical definition of a neighbor as Jesus eloquently described in the parable of the Good Samaritan, and explain to us how an enemy can also be considered a neighbor.

Also show us in the Torah where God instructed Israelites should love their enemies.

Very simple and straightforward tasks.

Splinz:


Refreshing. Thank you.

By the way, have you seen the simple task I gave to OkCornel? Check it: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

I was hoping he'll smack it down immediately but unfortunately, he is nowhere to be found around that task. Do you have someone that may assist him?

This thing is too simple.

Bring out the biblical definition of a neighbor as Jesus eloquently described in the parable of the Good Samaritan, and explain to us how an enemy can also be considered a neighbor.

Also show us in the Torah where God instructed Israelites should love their enemies.

Very simple and straightforward tasks.

Splinz:


Refreshing. Thank you.

By the way, have you seen the simple task I gave to OkCornel? Check it: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

I was hoping he'll smack it down immediately but unfortunately, he is nowhere to be found around that task. Do you have someone that may assist him?

@ the bolded!

Can Splinz demonstrate to us if the Ammonites, Moabites and Amalekites should be treated exactly the same way in the New Testament as they were in the Old Testament as far as Matthew 5 v 43-44 is concerned?

Splinz:


The answer is here: https://www.nairaland.com/6611596/many-christians-only-know-law/8#103097696

Find it. You're wasting time Cornel. Luke 10 is waiting.

I don’t see any answer there. Put the scriptural reference that states your enemy is also your neighbor. No plenty explanations, scriptural references please.

I’ve given you Jesus’ definition of an enemy and a neighbor in Matthew 5 v 41-45 and the parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10 v 36-37.

Now please use the scriptures to demonstrate how the robbers who attacked the traveller, and the Levite and Priest are also neighbors to the traveller.

No plenty explanations, no guesses or inferences. I want scriptural references. Thanks.

truespeak:


@ the bolded!

Bro this is a serious matter.

Like MaxInDHouse here: https://www.nairaland.com/6616284/gods-moral-law-10-commandments/3#103054853

OkCornel is caught in an evil web that he spined around himself. I must confess, his condition is critical and trust me, there's no way out except of course, he admits either of spreading falsehood purposely or ignorantly, of which he will be forgiven. After all, no one is above mistake.

That is the only available option, and he has now till evening. I think he need our support at this time, and the least you can do is to send help his way.

Splinz:


Bro this is a serious matter.

Like MaxInDHouse here: https://www.nairaland.com/6616284/gods-moral-law-10-commandments/3#103054853

OkCornel is caught in an evil web that he spined around himself. I must confess, his condition is critical and trust me, there's no way out except of course, he admits either of spreading falsehood purposely or ignorantly, of which he will be forgiven. After all, no one is above mistake.

That is the only available option, and he has now till evening. I think he need our support at this time, and the least you can do is to send help his way.

Bro, I Stand and Defend The Truth only thus I Stand against Untruths and Lies thus you would Never find me on the side Against Truth!

Never!

Splinz:


Brother, this question has been answered already.



The towering question still remains: Who gave the people such a law or commandment; who said it? Because as far as the scripture is concerned, God never did, either directly by Himself or indirectly through any of His prophets. So who did?

The one other option left is fable or tradition. And since when did Christians start believing fables as doctrines or commandments?

I want us to understand something very simple here. No one is above mistake. Personally, it cost me nothing to say sorry when I am wrong or to own my mistakes. But you see this very attitude of wanting to win arguments and not to learn, it's very dangerous, especially to a supposed Christian, honestly.

Can we all agree that Matthew 5:43 is what it is or continue deceiving ourselves?

You obviously don't know that something much more dangerous is when a supposed Christian thinks he could know better than Jesus!

Jesus said "it was said", and that doesn't suffice for you? You still want to find where it written first in the Bible, to believe it was said as Jesus stated.

Do you have any idea who Jesus is, or are you just one of those that calls Him "Lord" with your lips and mouth but He's not Lord in your heart?

Once Jesus says, it was said "Love thy neighbor and hate thy neighbor", it was said, period!

And Jesus amended that Law from "hate thy enemy" to "love thy enemy" even as you have "love your neighbor", period!

It's really ridiculous that this is even an argument.

The question concerning the Law of divorce that Moses gave to the Israelites, which Jesus abolished clearly exposes the error in your understanding, hence your dodging it.

At least you can't give the flimsy excuse that it wasn't a Law or in the scriptures as you did this, because it was there in the Law of Moses, but Jesus abolished it!

Same as that of stoning to death of anyone caught in the act of adultery, where the person was supposed to be stoned to death according to Law of Moses. But Jesus abolished it!

It's only lack of knowledge that would make anyone object that glaring Truth!

OkCornel:


This thing is too simple.

Bring out the biblical definition of a neighbor as Jesus eloquently described in the parable of the Good Samaritan, and explain to us how an enemy can also be considered a neighbor.

Also show us in the Torah where God instructed Israelites should love their enemies.

Very simple and straightforward tasks.

They think they know better than Jesus.

Today's crop of Christians. No wonder Jesus deserted them.

jesusjnr2020:
They think they know better than Jesus.

Today's crop of Christians. No wonder Jesus deserted them.

Speak for yourself!

We Dwell with Him, He has Never Deserted us!

jesusjnr2020:
You obviously don't know that something much more dangerous is when a supposed Christian thinks he could know better than Jesus!

Jesus said "it was said", and that doesn't suffice for you? You still want to find where it written first in the Bible, to believe it was said as Jesus stated.

Do you have any idea who Jesus is, or are you just one of those that calls Him "Lord" with your lips and mouth but He's not Lord in your heart?

Once Jesus says, it was said "Love thy neighbor and hate thy neighbor", it was said, period!

And Jesus amended that Law from "hate thy enemy" to "love thy enemy" even as you have "love your neighbor", period!

It's really ridiculous that this is even an argument.

The question concerning the Law of divorce that Moses gave to the Israelites, which Jesus abolished clearly exposes the error in your understanding, hence your dodging it.

At least you can't give the flimsy excuse that it wasn't a Law or in the scriptures as you did this, because it was there in the Law of Moses, but Jesus abolished it!

Same as that of stoning to death of anyone caught in the act of adultery, where the person was supposed to be stoned to death according to Law of Moses. But Jesus abolished it!

It's only lack of knowledge that would make anyone object that glaring Truth!

See attempt to reargue an already settled matter which you could not Rebut or Counter!

OkCornel:
Can Splinz demonstrate to us if the Ammonites, Moabites and Amalekites should be treated exactly the same way in the New Testament as they were in the Old Testament as far as Matthew 5 v 43-44 is concerned?

As we have settled we all have a God Owed Duty to love each other Ammonites, Moabites, Amalekites, Israelite, NigerArearite.

But here Another Law from The Same Law Giver was Issued and had priority. Deuteronomy 23:3 in the case of Ammonites and Moabites.

While the Amalekites were commanded to be utterly destroyed by The Law Giver. 1 Samuel 15.

So it is unconnected and inapplicable here for The Law Giver Issued a different Command, Under His Rights to issue Commands

I've told you the truth and presented the group practicing it so if my explanation is not enough go and study the group i presented but if you don't agree no problem continue worshiping your God with your brethren!

Splinz:


Bro this is a serious matter.

Like MaxInDHouse here: https://www.nairaland.com/6616284/gods-moral-law-10-commandments/3#103054853

OkCornel is caught in an evil web that he spined around himself. I must confess, his condition is critical and trust me, there's no way out except of course, he admits either of spreading falsehood purposely or ignorantly, of which he will be forgiven. After all, no one is above mistake.

That is the only available option, and he has now till evening. I think he need our support at this time, and the least you can do is to send help his way.