Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ taught His followers of
■ the grave where all who have eternal life in Him will sleep awaiting His return and judgement - John 5 vs 19 - 29
■ Heaven where after His return all those raised from the dead and judged righteous will proceed - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 40
■ Hell, a place of eternal damnation where after His return, all those raised and judged evil will be locked away in - Matthew 25 vs 41 -46

And Hades a place of torment for the unresurrected wicked person!

My point is that there are FOUR different usage of the phase "Hell" in the bible...therefore, context is extremely important

TenQ:

And Hades a place of torment for the unresurrected wicked person!

My point is that there are FOUR different usage of the phase "Hell" in the bible...therefore, context is extremely important

Please provide scriptural reference for this place of torment for unrestricted wicked persons.

So, Tenq, can we get scriptural reference for Hades. Where did Jesus Christ teach of this Hades you speak of.

Kobojunkie:
Please provide scriptural reference for this place of torment for unrestricted wicked persons.

..and when I tell you of Lazarus and the Rich man, you will say its a parable and I'm also going to ask you to explain the PURPOSE of the parable...

Jesus didn't call it a Parable!

Dtruthspeaker:


Man and his always thinking his Creator is like him.

If you do not make the kingdom of God, surely you will see first hand the Fire which kills spirits, which God has prepared for spirits.

Do you know what is the Kingdom of God? Remain in your confusion. The Creator can do and undo. What they taught you Christians and how you understood the whole thing is wrong. You guys are still sleeping. Hell is total darkness. Lake of fire is furnance of fire- a kind of fire you have not even seen before. All these are after judgement. You talked about killing spirits. Demons don't die. They are reserved in a place of punishment or torment after their judgement. You can't kill them. Let me just leave it like that so I won't oversay things. Don't even try to argue, non of you Christians know even a quater of these things. It's very deep. You guys were told the wrong stories and apparitions act them for you in dreams to keep you spell-bound

TenQ:

You wrote so much but without comprehension

1. There is a difference between Hell and Lake of Fire
2. Hell could mean different things depending on the context
i. Hell = Physical Grave
ii. Hell = A place of holding for dead souls (Sheol)
iii. Hell = A place of holding and punishment of wicked dead souls (Hell. Hades)
iv. Hell = Physical Refuse Dump in Israel (Valley of Hinnom, Gehenna)
3. Whereas there are people in Hell, there is not one single person in the Lake of Fire yet

Which of these four hells don't exist?
or You mean that none of these four hells exist!

Even if you could not comprehend, you’d have a faint idea of the “Hell” being referred to.

TenQ:

You wrote so much but without comprehension

1. There is a difference between Hell and Lake of Fire
2. Hell could mean different things depending on the context
i. Hell = Physical Grave
ii. Hell = A place of holding for dead souls (Sheol)
iii. Hell = A place of holding and punishment of wicked dead souls (Hell. Hades)
iv. Hell = Physical Refuse Dump in Israel (Valley of Hinnom, Gehenna)
3. Whereas there are people in Hell, there is not one single person in the Lake of Fire yet

Which of these four hells don't exist?
or You mean that none of these four hells exist!

Even if you could not comprehend, you’d have a faint idea of the “Hell” being referred to. You could still go back and see this section of the writeup: Hell is not a destination for the wicked after death, but after the resurrection (for the destination after death, called Sheol or Hades)

Acehart:


Even if you could not comprehend, you’d have a faint idea of the “Hell” being referred to. You could still go back and see this section of the writeup: Hell is not a destination for the wicked after death, but after the resurrection (for the destination after death, called Sheol or Hades)

The simple question is:
Which of the four definitions of hell that doesn't exist!
or better still fault my claim that there are four contextual definitions of hell

TenQ:

..and when I tell you of Lazarus and the Rich man, you will say its a parable and I'm also going to ask you to explain the PURPOSE of the parable...

Jesus didn't call it a Parable!

So you don't believe the story of Lazarus and the Rich man was a parable? But you believe the story of the Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son, and others are parables?

A parable is a story and they are used to convey an idea or lesson to His followers.

The lesson of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is found in the Abraham's response to the Richman. It is that no one will be sent back from the dead to warn the living. What this means is no person will be sent back from Heaven or from Hell to warn those who are living. If you consider the fact that no one enters into Heaven or Hell until after Jesus Christ's return, and judgement - this according to Jesus Christ's numerous teachings on the subject, the lesson of this here parable becomes obvious.

TenQ:

The simple question is:
Which of the four definitions of hell that doesn't exist!
or better still fault my claim that there are four contextual definitions of hell

The One in the book Book of Revelations

Kobojunkie:
So you don't believe the story of Lazarus and the Rich man was a parable? But you believe the story of the Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son, and others are parables?

A parable is a story.

The PURPOSE or LESSON in the Parable of the Good Samaritan and the Prodigal son are obvious and direct.

What is the PURPOSE or INTENT of the "parable of Lazarus and the Rich man"?
Why did Jesus describe Hell as a place of torment rather than the grave where a man knows nothing?

TenQ:

The PURPOSE or LESSON in the Parable of the Good Samaritan and the Prodigal son are obvious and direct.

What is the PURPOSE or INTENT of the "parable of Lazarus and the Rich man"?
Why did Jesus describe Hell as a place of torment rather than the grave where a man knows nothing?

The lesson of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is found in the Abraham's response to the Richman. It is that no one will be sent back from the dead to warn the living. What this means is no person will be sent back from Heaven or from Hell to warn those who are living.

If you consider the fact that no one enters into Heaven or Hell until after Jesus Christ's return, and judgement - this according to Jesus Christ's numerous teachings on the subject, the lesson of this here parable becomes obvious.

Hell is the place of eternal torment as described by Jesus Christ in Matthew 25 vs 41-46.

Acehart:


The One in the book Book of Revelations

The book of Revelation didn't describe Hell, it described the LAKE OF FIRE!

The lake of Fire is where Resurrected Ungodly Humans and dumped. SInce no one has been resurrected yet, the lake of fire is EMPTY

Kobojunkie:
The lesson of the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is found in the Abraham's response to the Richman. It is that no one will be sent back from the dead to warn the living. What this means is no person will be sent back from Heaven or from Hell to warn those who are living.

If you consider the fact that no one enters into Heaven or Hell until after Jesus Christ's return, and judgement - this according to Jesus Christ's numerous teachings on the subject, the lesson of this here parable becomes obvious.

Hell is the place of eternal torment as described by Jesus Christ in Matthew 25 vs 41-46.

But since Jesus knew that the dead lazarus, Abraham and the Rich man know NOTHING and therefore cannot regret anything,
1. What logical reason will make Jesus invoke an unconscious Abraham to respond to the unconscious Richman?
2. How is it logical that the Unconscious Richman is in Torment?
3. Why is a warning necessary since all the three actors in the story are in unconscious states?

TenQ:

The book of Revelation didn't describe Hell, it described the LAKE OF FIRE!

The lake of Fire is where Resurrected Ungodly Humans and dumped. SInce no one has been resurrected yet, the lake of fire is EMPTY

You get the point now

Acehart:


You get the point now

But your writeup didn't distinguish between Hell and the lake of fire AND seem to suggest that the punishment of Hell (Hades) does not exist.

TenQ:

But your writeup didn't distinguish between Hell and the lake of fire AND seem to suggest that the punishment of Hell (Hades) does not exist.

The writeup was about the final destination of the wicked; does it exist? The writeup suggests that at this present time, such a place doesn’t exist, but will exist (it will be created in the future). However, The Hell that exists now is Sheol or Hades, words for ‘the grave’ in Jewish or Greek translations respectively.

The first time Yeshua or Jesus mentions Hell fire (which you call Lake of fire) was in the beatitudes. He said, “whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.” (KJV translates fiery hell as Hell fire).

You said the lake of fire or Hell fire exists but it is empty; I’d like to ask you a question: In the resurrection of the dead, would the risen body tangible?

bobestman:

Do you know what is the Kingdom of God? Remain in your confusion. The Creator can do and undo. What they taught you Christians and how you understood the whole thing is wrong. You guys are still sleeping. Hell is total darkness. Lake of fire is furnance of fire- a kind of fire you have not even seen before. All these are after judgement. You talked about killing spirits. Demons don't die. They are reserved in a place of punishment or torment after their judgement.

You have rather established and proven my case in saying "The Creator can do and undo" which is what I implied .

There is no limit to what God can do to and over his creation, spirits.

Thus,
1) if lake of fire is "a place of torment" only but no death, it is based on the exclusive preserve and direction of The Creator (And I really do not care because I intend not to be there).

2) if the lake of Fire shall eventually kill and terminate the spirits there, it is still going to be based on the Exclusive Will of The Creator Who hath created it for that purpose, and so shall it be done. (And also, I still do not care for intend not to be there)

Therefore, all in all, the death or endless torment of the souls therein shall be according to The Will and Command of God, AT ALL TIMES.

So in either of these options or such further options as there might be, I still do not care for I intend not to be there.

And I believe now that you can appreciate that your statement "You can't kill them" is erroneous, for I am not the one who created lake of fire, neither am I the duly appointed to cast the convincts therein.

Acehart:

The writeup was about the final destination of the wicked; does it exist? The writeup suggests that at this present time, such a place doesn’t exist, but will exist (it will be created in the future). However, The Hell that exists now is Sheol or Hades, words for ‘the grave’ in Jewish or Greek translations respectively.

The first time Yeshua or Jesus mentions Hell fire (which you call Lake of fire) was in the beatitudes. He said, “whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.” (KJV translates fiery hell as Hell fire).

I think your problem is trying to deemphasize the reality of Hades as Hell.

Like I said:
Hell could mean different things depending on the context
i. Hell = Physical Grave (grave/tomb)
ii. Hell = A place of holding for dead souls (Sheol)
iii. Hell = A place of holding and punishment of wicked dead souls (Hell. Hades)
iv. Hell = Physical Refuse Dump in Israel (Valley of Hinnom, Gehenna)

Acehart:

You said the lake of fire or Hell fire exists but it is empty; I’d like to ask you a question: In the resurrection of the dead, would the risen body tangible?

No, I would never call Lake of Fire Hell fire because it is prone to misinterpretation. Revelation spoke only about the Lake of Fire and not Hell or Hell fire!

In the resurrection, the risen body will be very physically tangible. For the righteous, it would have other characteristics such as not being prone to sickness, pain and suffering (being like Jesus Body at His resurrection). God designed humans to be a Trinity not a Duality.

In Hell, a human being is a Duality (Soul and Spirit)
In the Lake of Fire a Human being is a Trinity (Body, Soul and Spirit)

I believe I have answered your question.

TenQ:


I think your problem is trying to deemphasize the reality of Hades as Hell.

Like I said:
Hell could mean different things depending on the context
i. Hell = Physical Grave (grave/tomb)
ii. Hell = A place of holding for dead souls (Sheol)
iii. Hell = A place of holding and punishment of wicked dead souls (Hell. Hades)
iv. Hell = Physical Refuse Dump in Israel (Valley of Hinnom, Gehenna)


No, I would never call Lake of Fire Hell fire because it is prone to misinterpretation. Revelation spoke only about the Lake of Fire and not Hell or Hell fire!

In the resurrection, the risen body will be very physically tangible. For the righteous, it would have other characteristics such as not being prone to sickness, pain and suffering (being like Jesus Body at His resurrection). God designed humans to be a Trinity not a Duality.

In Hell, a human being is a Duality (Soul and Spirit)
In the Lake of Fire a Human being is a Trinity (Body, Soul and Spirit)

I believe I have answered your question.

Thank you, you have done well. May we live in holiness and be at peace with everyone.

TenQ:

But since Jesus knew that the dead lazarus, Abraham and the Rich man know NOTHING and therefore cannot regret anything,
1. What logical reason will make Jesus invoke an unconscious Abraham to respond to the unconscious Richman?
2. How is it logical that the Unconscious Richman is in Torment?
3. Why is a warning necessary since all the three actors in the story are in unconscious states?

1. None, it was a story, a means to an end.
2. None, again, this was a story told to teach a lesson. The main reason is in the lesson, not the story, same as is the case with some of the many other parables Jesus Christ told .e.g. the Parable of the 10 talents.
3. A warning was necessary because as you can see false prophets and Teachers did arise teaching falsehoods of the dead coming back to life to warn people in the name of God.

Dtruthspeaker:


You have rather established and proven my case in saying "The Creator can do and undo" which is what I implied .

There is no limit to what God can do to and over his creation, spirits.

Thus,
1) if lake of fire is "a place of torment" only but no death, it is based on the exclusive preserve and direction of The Creator (And I really do not care because I intend not to be there).

2) if the lake of Fire shall eventually kill and terminate the spirits there, it is still going to be based on the Exclusive Will of The Creator Who hath created it for that purpose, and so shall it be done. (And also, I still do not care for intend not to be there)

Therefore, all in all, the death or endless torment of the souls therein shall be according to The Will and Command of God, AT ALL TIMES.

So in either of these options or such further options as there might be, I still do not care for I intend not to be there.

And I believe now that you can appreciate that your statement "You can't kill them" is erroneous, for I am not the one who created lake of fire, neither am I the duly appointed to cast the convincts therein.

You replied well. Your comments show you have know knowledge how this things work but just assuming as you read in your Bible or as you were told by pastors. The Bible you read though true but had been edited, revised, re-written several times and many truth are lost. So don't be argueing too much on these things. My friend, after judgement will these things be. And I will tell you again, the way they narrated it all in your Bible is not the way it will happen exactly cos those ppl wrote according to how they understood it. It was never given to them in the first place. You ppl should wait. The truth when it comes will shock everyone.

bobestman:

You replied well. Your comments show you have know knowledge how this things work but just assuming as you read in your Bible or as you were told by pastors. The Bible you read though true but had been edited, revised, re-written several times and many truth are lost. So don't be argueing too much on these things. My friend, after judgement will these things be. And I will tell you again, the way they narrated it all in your Bible is not the way it will happen exactly cos those ppl wrote according to how they understood it. It was never given to them in the first place. You ppl should wait. The truth when it comes will shock everyone.

But you're not waiting rather you're arguing while telling others to wait!

Kobojunkie:
1. None, it was a story, a means to an end.
2. None, again, this was a story told to teach a lesson. The main reason is in the lesson, not the story, same as is the case with some of the many other parables Jesus Christ told .e.g. the Parable of the 10 talents.
3. A warning was necessary because as you can see false prophets and Teachers did arise teaching falsehoods of the dead coming back to life to warn people in the name of God.

You can close your eyes to the reality as long as you like BUT if Jesus preached about hell, you should ask yourself why you think it means annihilation.

Why should Jesus insert the fact that the Rich man had bothers still living in oblivion about hell?
If God is Just, will He punish gross wickedness?

Is it not obvious that Jesus was teaching that physical death is not the end of existence?

Acehart:


Thank you, you have done well. May we live in holiness and be at peace with everyone.

Amen. ..and to you too!

We are all living through an illusion; What we call hell is a 'Prison House' for Evil-doers. Methinks.

MaxInDHouse:


But you're not waiting rather you're arguing while telling others to wait!

I don't teach anything here. I only come when I see you ppl teaching things you don't know and still bragging that you know it. I try my best to correct you. The true knowledge will be revealed at the right time as it was written to come. At that time will you all understand. All you know today are all the twisted truth.

Gee64:
We are all living through an illusion; What we call hell is a 'Prison House' for Evil-doers. Methinks.

Nice try. It would have been wonderful to see you spinning Bible verses to buttress your thoughts on the illusion of life and the Prison house of the unrighteous dead.

TenQ:


I think your problem is trying to deemphasize the reality of Hades as Hell.

Like I said:
Hell could mean different things depending on the context
i. Hell = Physical Grave (grave/tomb)
ii. Hell = A place of holding for dead souls (Sheol)
iii. Hell = A place of holding and punishment of wicked dead souls (Hell. Hades)
iv. Hell = Physical Refuse Dump in Israel (Valley of Hinnom, Gehenna)


No, I would never call Lake of Fire Hell fire because it is prone to misinterpretation. Revelation spoke only about the Lake of Fire and not Hell or Hell fire!

In the resurrection, the risen body will be very physically tangible. For the righteous, it would have other characteristics such as not being prone to sickness, pain and suffering (being like Jesus Body at His resurrection). God designed humans to be a Trinity not a Duality.

In Hell, a human being is a Duality (Soul and Spirit)
In the Lake of Fire a Human being is a Trinity (Body, Soul and Spirit)

I believe I have answered your question.

For a body to withstand eternal torment must mean the body is tough beast of a body wouldn't it? I mean it's not going to burn into ash I suppose and has to remain intact for the pain to be felt, that has to be an awesome body, even Superman would be jealous. LoL!

bobestman:

I don't teach anything here. I only come when I see you ppl teaching things you don't know and still bragging that you know it. I try my best to correct you. The true knowledge will be revealed at the right time as it was written to come. At that time will you all understand. All you know today are all the twisted truth.

Where is it written?
I can't believe it's inside the Bible because you'll have to TEACH to convince anyone.

We are in Hell on Earth. When we repent and accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour and He needs to be with Him, we die and get Visa to resurrect to Him.

bobestman:

You replied well. Your comments show you have know knowledge how this things work but just assuming as you read in your Bible or as you were told by pastors. The Bible you read though true but had been edited, revised, re-written several times and many truth are lost. So don't be argueing too much on these things. My friend, after judgement will these things be. And I will tell you again, the way they narrated it all in your Bible is not the way it will happen exactly cos those ppl wrote according to how they understood it. It was never given to them in the first place. You ppl should wait. The truth when it comes will shock everyone.

If your version or copy of your Bible was God sanctioned, it would be in the hands of every reasonable person and the contents will prevail over all arguments.

Anyway for me, I know as my Co learned senior brother Paul said, "where there are Laws, there must be just is. And where there is just is, there shall be punishment for guilt,. And where there is punishment for guilt, there must be a place of perdition and punishment, Subject to The Direction and Command of The Law Giver!

Dtruthspeaker:


You have rather established and proven my case in saying "The Creator can do and undo" which is what I implied .

There is no limit to what God can do to and over his creation, spirits.

Thus,
1) if lake of fire is "a place of torment" only but no death, it is based on the exclusive preserve and direction of The Creator (And I really do not care because I intend not to be there).

2) if the lake of Fire shall eventually kill and terminate the spirits there, it is still going to be based on the Exclusive Will of The Creator Who hath created it for that purpose, and so shall it be done. (And also, I still do not care for intend not to be there)

Therefore, all in all, the death or endless torment of the souls therein shall be according to The Will and Command of God, AT ALL TIMES.

So in either of these options or such further options as there might be, I still do not care for I intend not to be there.

And I believe now that you can appreciate that your statement "You can't kill them" is erroneous, for I am not the one who created lake of fire, neither am I the duly appointed to cast the convincts therein.

We forget that the LOVING God is also FEARFUL in anger
Matthew 25:46
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I wish the scripture above is eternal death rather than eternal punishment then we can soften down the gravity of the punishment.

If death is a punishment, is Abraham, Isaac, jacob, Moses, David, Peter, Paul and the other disciples under punishment?


Rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night—those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

If death is a form of unconscious oblivion, then it is a REST from all toils and pain.
How come those who worship the beast receive no rest from their torment?

There is a parallel here referencing the devil (Revelation 20:10)