tctrills:

Wrong again. First just because the bible did not speak literally in Isaiah does not mean that every verse in the bible isn't literal. That obviously makes no sense.

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

This is not figurative.

cornelboy:
Alright i think I'm understanding you now.
What about these 144000 that God chose from every part of the world and bought with Christ blood to be kings and priests in God's kingdom, when will they be in the kingdom?

tctrills:
Thats clear enough. See our aim here isn't to point out every time the bible does not mean something literally. They are millions of verses like that and no one would argue about that. But this isn't. Jonh took the pains to explain why they were virgins. It was clearly stated they had not had sex with women

Janosky:

2 Corinthians 11:2
. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him."

Oga, were the Corinthian believers redeemed @ Revelation 14:3 & Virgins @ Revelation 14:4?

cornelboy:
Revelation 14:4
[4]They have kept themselves as pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering to God and to the Lamb.

Do you think the kingdom is just for boys in there late teens or early twenties that haven't had sex?
What bout people like Paul, Peter Mary and the First 120 people that were baptized with holy spirit?
You think Peter is still in the grave now waiting for resurrection while some boys are ruling with Christ?

tctrills:

It's clearly written, they are Christ's entourage to follow him everywhere he goes.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Again, Revelations 14 did not say these men were with Christ in heaven. They stood with him on mount Sion. Up till now you have not pointed me to where the bible says only these men would be in heaven

cornelboy:


What does firstfruits unto God mean?
Revelation 14:3
[3]This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
If I were you i would compare version of the Bibles not stick to KJ versions

tctrills:

I would say, you are making my point, These 144000 are only are part of the kingdom, Christ entourage. Were they special? Yes. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Were they the only ones to make heaven? No, the bible never indicated such.

cornelboy:


What does firstfruits unto God mean?
Revelation 14:3
[3]This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
If i were you i would compare versions of the Bible not stick to KJ versions

tctrills:
It means that God has more than one fruit. Being the first doesn't mean the only fruit. Or the only fruit in heaven. As I said, these were clearly men of great importance in the kingdom.
Again, there was no female in this group. They were Jesus's choir.
Note the bible didn't even say they were in heaven but mount Sion.

cornelboy:
See it's not about making heaven to enjoy.
These people get work for there. They are kings and priests. And they are coming to earth to restore things.

tctrills:

It's clearly written, they are Christ's entourage to follow him everywhere he goes.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 1:1, Jesus presented the revelation in signs to John. .

2 Corinthians 11:2 were the Corinthian believers virgins?

Oga, shine your eyes.
2 Corinthians 11:2 & Revelation 14:4, are saying the same thing- virginity is in the spiritual sense.
Oga, is there gender in the spiritual realm where Jesus is dwelling?

You can't convince yourself that every believer in Corinth is a virgin

tctrills:


Again, Revelations 14 did not say these men were with Christ in heaven. They stood with him on mount Sion.

Up till now you have not pointed me to where the bible says only these men would be in heaven

cornelboy:


The point is these people will be resurrected first before the rest and rule with Christ. This the first resurrection.
The others will be resurrected when the kingdom comes to earth to fulfill God's will. But the won't go to heaven but live on earth forever!

Janosky:

Revelation 1:1, Jesus presented the revelation in signs to John. .

2 Corinthians 11:2 were the Corinthian believers virgins?

Oga, shine your eyes.
2 Corinthians 11:2 & Revelation 14:4, are saying the same thing- virginity is in the spiritual sense.
Oga, is there gender in the spiritual realm where Jesus is dwelling?

You can't convince yourself that every believer in Corinth is a virgin.


Again, Revelations 14 did not say these men were with Christ in heaven. They stood with him on mount Sion. Up till now you have not pointed me to where the bible says only these men would be in heaven

Oga, Mount Zion is a scriptural reference for heaven, Psalms 74:2.

Every event in Revelation chapter 14 took place in heaven.

tctrills:

Can we both agree on something despite our differences? Can we agree that the bible never said these are the only people going to heaven?

Janosky:

Revelation 1:1, Jesus presented the revelation in signs to John. .

2 Corinthians 11:2 were the Corinthian believers virgins?

Oga, shine your eyes.
2 Corinthians 11:2 & Revelation 14:4, are saying the same thing- virginity is in the spiritual sense.
Oga, is there gender in the spiritual realm where Jesus is dwelling?

You can't convince yourself that every believer in Corinth is a virgin.


@ 12:05am, you already said "the 144000 were not the only people in heaven"

Oga, Mount Zion is a scriptural reference for heaven, Psalms 74:2.

Every event in Revelation chapter 14 took place in heaven.

cornelboy:
John 5:28-29
[28]Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son,
[29]and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment.

Daniel 12:2
[2]Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.

Their eternal life will continue on earth.

tctrills:




Revelation 14 :1-3 & James 4:4 have proven that it's not virginity in the literal sense & James 4:4 have proven that it's not virginity in the literal sense Lets reAD THESE VERSES TO FIND OUT WHERE IT SAYS THEY ARE NOT LITERAL VIRGINS.

Revelation 14 :1-3
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

James 4:4
4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

NONE OF THESE VERSES SAY THEY ARE NOT LITERAL VIRGINS

tctrills:

Can we both agree on something despite our differences? Can we agree that the bible never said these are the only people going to heaven?

cornelboy:
John 5:28-29
[28]Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son,
[29]and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment.

Daniel 12:2
[2]Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.

Their eternal life will continue on earth.

cornelboy:


Revelation 14:3
[3]This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
Where were the 144000 learning the song, heaven or not?

tctrills:

Their eternal life will continue on earth. I agree that both heaven and earth would be filled with those living eternal life. This has never been the argument.
It was you that created an arbitrary number for heaven. That is the discussion.
Again we are never told that those on earth would be barred from heaven.

Janosky:


Friendship with the world" is adultery in the spiritual sense..
Virginity in Rev 14:4 & 2 Corinthians 11:2 is not literal, but in the spiritual sense, that is, "spotless from the world"

tctrills:

We already agree that these 144000 would go to heaven. They were clearly in a heavenly choir.

tctrills:

First, are you saying that every word in the bible is figurative? what is your point?
So when the bible says Jesus was raised from the dead it means something else?

tctrills:


@ 12:05am, you already said "the 144000 were not the only people in heaven" Yes the bible never indicated figuratively or otherwise that these are the only people meant for heaven. the bible did not even mention heaven when talking about them

tctrills:

Since you believe the entire bible is a figurative book, you can clearly make any verse to be what you want it to be and I cant argue with that. If you tell me Christ's death was figurative, what can I say?

Janosky:

Jesus Christ raised from the dead is simple and straightforward.


Revelation 14:1, Where was Jesus Christ going on earth when he gave revelation to John?

Psalms 74:2, mount Zion is heaven, simple and straightforward.

Janosky:

Jesus Christ raised from the dead is simple and straightforward.


Revelation 14:1, Where was Jesus Christ going on earth when he gave revelation to John?

Psalms 74:2, mount Zion is heaven, simple and straightforward.

cornelboy:


It's not and i don't think he meant that. But some phrases are clearly figurative.

tctrills:

Since you believe the entire bible is a figurative book, you can clearly make any verse to be what you want it to be and I can't argue with that. If you tell me Christ's death was figurative, what can I say?

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. not figurative. Please what is the figurative meaning of women here?

cornelboy tctrills:
Bro you need to read the bible from beginning to end.
When this Kingdom comes to earth with Christ, they remain on earth.

Revelation 21:2-7
[2]And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
[3]I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.
[4]He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”
[5]And the one sitting on the throne said, “Look, I am making everything new!” And then he said to me, “Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true.”
[6]And he also said, “It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega—the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give freely from the springs of the water of life.
[7]All who are victorious will inherit all these blessings, and I will be their God, and they will be my children.



Go read 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. Read from versions with simpler English not KJV.

Janosky:

Jesus Christ raised from the dead is simple and straightforward.


Revelation 14:1, Where was Jesus Christ going on earth when he gave revelation to John?

Psalms 74:2, mount Zion is heaven, simple and straightforward.