tctrills:

But they won't go to heaven but live on earth forever! How do you know that these won't go to heaven. Christ would rule over both heaven and earth. Is it written that those on earth cant go to heaven?

Christ himself will be subjected to God. He will give the rule back to GOD his Father.
God will rule everything himself. That's why we warn that Trinity is a false doctrine. Our worship should be purely to God the Father of all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
The Truth is one no matter what.

cornelboy:

The city comes out of heaven to where? And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Is it not to earth?
So are we not saying the same thing? Christ would reign on earth. and the 144000 would follow him everywhere he goes. That's all the scripture says about them.
It did not say only them would be in heaven. Oh am I wrong?

cornelboy:


Christ himself will be subjected to God. He will give the rule back to GOD his Father.
God will rule everything himself. That's why we warn that Trinity is a false doctrine. Our worship should be purely to God the Father of all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
The Truth is one no matter what.

I have no argument with this. Which scripture says that anyone but these 144000 men cant enter heaven.

cornelboy:


Christ himself will be subjected to God. He will give the rule back to GOD his Father.
God will rule everything himself. That's why we warn that Trinity is a false doctrine. Our worship should be purely to God the Father of all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
The Truth is one no matter what.

We can discuss the trinity at any time. I am sure it would make an interesting discussion. But first, could you honestly tell me from your heart as a true Christian that any verse in the bible stated that only these 144000 would make heaven?

cornelboy:


Christ himself will be subjected to God. He will give the rule back to GOD his Father.
God will rule everything himself. That's why we warn that Trinity is a false doctrine. Our worship should be purely to God the Father of all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
The Truth is one no matter what.

If you can point me to any verse in the bible and tell me that honestly from your heart, you believe that verse is saying that only these 144000 would make heaven, I would drop my case. I may not believe you but at least i would know you are being honest.

The new Jerusalem will come to earth and God will live with his people.
The will of God for earth would have been fufilled.
Why is there's need for people to go to heaven again? Or don't you know earth was created as home for man in the beginning?

tctrills:
The city comes out of heaven to where? And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Is it not to earth?
So are we not saying the same thing? Christ would reign on earth. and the 144000 would follow him everywhere he goes. That's all the scripture says about them.
It did not say only them would be in heaven. Oh am I wrong?

cornelboy:
The new Jerusalem will come to earth and God will live with his people.
The will of God for earth would have been fufilled.
Why is there's need for people to go to heaven again? Or don't you know earth was created as home for man in the beginning?

I don't know why there would be a need. I don't know things that have not been revealed. I only quoted
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


What has been revealed is enough for me

tctrills:

Since you believe the entire bible is a figurative book, you can clearly make any verse to be what you want it to be and I can't argue with that. If you tell me Christ's death was figurative, what can I say?

Oga, Revelation 1:1, was given to John "in signs" not everything is literal.
Says the scriptures.

tctrills:

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. not figurative. Please what is the figurative meaning of women here?

James 4:4, Adulteresses is tied to Friendship against God.
You know that Adulteresses reference "women", is it not?
Adulteresses at James 4:4 is NOT women !
Revelation 14:4 & James 4:4, the common thread is defilement in a spiritual sense.
2 Corinthians 11:2 virginity of the believers is the same virginity for the 144000 @Rev 14:4.
Revelation 2:10, they were promised the crown of life
Revelation 14:3 & 5:9-10, Oga, Were the Corinthian believers redeemed?
Yes !
2 Corinthians 11:2 = Revelation 14:4.

Which other place in the bible or revelation mention that they are not the only ones?
The 144000 are chosen from all the saints all over the world. It could be you.

tctrills:

If you can point me to any verse in the bible and tell me that honestly from your heart, you believe that verse is saying that only these 144000 would make heaven, I would drop my case. I may not believe you but at least i would know you are being honest.

Janosky:

Oga, Revelation 1:1, was given to John "in signs" not everything is literal.
Says the scriptures.

James 4:4, Adulteresses is tied to Friendship against God.
You know that Adulteresses reference "women", is it not?
Adulteresses at James 4:4 is NOT women !
Revelation 14:4 & James 4:4, the common thread is defilement in a spiritual sense.
2 Corinthians 11:2 virginity of the believers is the same virginity for the 144000 @Rev 14:4.
Revelation 2:10, they were promised the crown of life
Revelation 14:3 & 5:9-10, Oga, Were the Corinthian believers redeemed?
Yes !
2 Corinthians 11:2 = Revelation 14:4.

If we agree it's all figurative, then don't you think the 144000 men could mean something else. Maybe it meant 144000 days or 144000 cities or just about anything?

Will be here later later..

Oga, thanks for your time.

Shalom

cornelboy:
Which other place in the bible or revelation mention that they are not the only ones?
The 144000 are chosen from all the saints all over the world. It could be you.

I never said they are not chosen. I just asked you to show me any verse that indicates these are the only ones meant for heaven and i want you to be honest about it. A verse that makes it clear only 1440000 people can enter heaven.

If your argument is that the bible never said these are not the only ones, I love that. I love the fact that you don't know. we can leave it at that

Janosky:
Will be here later later..

Oga, thanks for your time.

Shalom

Thanks man.

cornelboy:
Which other place in the bible or revelation mention that they are not the only ones?
The 144000 are chosen from all the saints all over the world. It could be you.

We can both agree that no verse said anything about it. No verse said they would be the only ones or not. If we agree on this at least we have some progress

That's it! Don't say and ask questions bout what you don't want to know or the bible didn't talk about.
It's clear. Jesus said those that will inherit the kingdom must be born and he also said the patriarchs and the prophets will be seen there. Are they born again i.e baptized by the holy spirit? But God still made it possible.
He also said the pure in heart will see God, the persecuted for doing right will inherit the kingdom, the poor in spirit too will inherit the kingdom etc. The book of revelation that reveals events that will happen in the future says those that are or will be in the kingdom are 144k. What else do we need?

tctrills:
I don't know why there would be a need. I don't know things that have not been revealed. I only quoted
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


What has been revealed is enough for me

tctrills:
We can both agree that no verse said anything about it. No verse said they would be the only ones or not. If we agree on this at least we have some progress

Yes I agree that no verse explicitly say that only the 144000 are in heaven. But they are the only ones recorded that we see in the bible to be in heaven. And it's for a purpose.

cornelboy:

Yes I agree that no verse explicitly say that only the 144000 are in heaven. But they are the only ones recorded that we see in the bible to be in heaven. And it's for a purpose.

Well at least now, we have a common ground.
We can continue from here.
And yes I agree we are told about this 144k that would follow Jesus wherever he goes for a purpose only that it is not given to me or you to decide the purpose.
When you start the trinity thread, let me know.

cornelboy:
That's it! Don't say and ask questions bout what you don't want to know or the bible didn't talk about.
It's clear. Jesus said those that will inherit the kingdom must be born and he also said the patriarchs and the prophets will be seen there. Are they born again i.e baptized by the holy spirit? But God still made it possible.
He also said the pure in heart will see God, the persecuted for doing right will inherit the kingdom, the poor in spirit too will inherit the kingdom etc. The book of revelation that reveals events that will happen in the future says those that are or will be in the kingdom are 144k. What else do we need?

But it did not say those that will be in the kingdom are 144k. It says those that would follow Jesus wherever he goes and sing for him are 144k. I am always very careful not to add my own ideas to the bible. That is why when you suggested that Abraham wasn't a prophet, despite the fact that I think he is, I could not honestly carry on with the argument and depend on the bible. If the bible didn't say only these guys would make heaven, I would be afraid to say so.

If you still don't know what God's kingdom will do or its purpose, you still have a lot of study to do. They will rule the earth. They are made as priests to God. They will rule and judge the world together with Jesus when the kingdom comes to earth. The kingdom will destroy anything evil from the earth. Daniel 2:44.
They are other verses go and study.

The TRUTH and fact is those that are made kings and priests to be part of God's kingdom are the 144000 chosen from saints all over the world.
So it's possible that some would go to heaven but won't be part of the established kingdom, but i don't think so.
What you should have in mind is that earth was created to be and is the everlasting home of man and other earthly creatures.
Do you really understand that bolded phrase?
The 144000 are not the only righteous people or saints or christians that has ever lived on earth, but they were/are chosen according to God's will. It could be anyone.
So from the beginning of the argument, what makes you think they are other people in God's kingdom?

tctrills:

Well at least now, we have a common ground.
We can continue from here.
And yes I agree we are told about this 144k that would follow Jesus wherever he goes for a purpose only that it is not given to me or you to decide the purpose.
When you start the trinity thread, let me know.

Nobody555:
If you still don't know what God's kingdom will do or its purpose, you still have a lot of study to do. They will rule the earth. They are made as priests to God. They will rule and judge the world together with Jesus when the kingdom comes to earth. The kingdom will destroy anything evil from the earth. Daniel 2:44.
They are other verses go and study.

The TRUTH and fact is those that are made kings and priests to be part of God's kingdom are the 144000 chosen from saints all over the world.
So it's possible that some would go to heaven but won't be part of the established kingdom, but i don't think so.
What you should have in mind is that earth was created to be and is the everlasting home of man and other earthly creatures.
Do you really understand that bolded phrase?
The 144000 are not the only righteous people or saints or christians that has ever lived on earth, but they were/are chosen according to God's will. It could be anyone.
So from the beginning of the argument, what makes you think they are other people in God's kingdom?

I agree with most of what you say the only difference is the bible never state that these 144000 would be the only ones to make heaven. It's your personal opinion not back by scripture. Now where in the bible was a number set for those that would make heaven.
We learn from revelations 14 that these 144k were chosen to be Christ entourage and chior. Not that they would be the only ones to make heaven.
They would be with Christ on mount Zion when Christ comes to rule over the earth

Nobody555:
If you still don't know what God's kingdom will do or its purpose, you still have a lot of study to do. They will rule the earth. They are made as priests to God. They will rule and judge the world together with Jesus when the kingdom comes to earth. The kingdom will destroy anything evil from the earth. Daniel 2:44.
They are other verses go and study.

The TRUTH and fact is those that are made kings and priests to be part of God's kingdom are the 144000 chosen from saints all over the world.
So it's possible that some would go to heaven but won't be part of the established kingdom, but i don't think so.
What you should have in mind is that earth was created to be and is the everlasting home of man and other earthly creatures.
Do you really understand that bolded phrase?
The 144000 are not the only righteous people or saints or christians that has ever lived on earth, but they were/are chosen according to God's will. It could be anyone.
So from the beginning of the argument, what makes you think they are other people in God's kingdom?

I understand you must follow your doctrine but I put God's Word above every doctrine.
I understand that both heaven and earth earth would be ruled by God and his people. But at no time did the bible reveal that any particular number would go to heaven or thathe those on earth wouldn't be able to go to heaven.
Those are all man made teachings, not from the Bible. I respect your opinion and doctrine but you should be honest, these teachings are not from the bible

First you have to realize that "making heaven" is not a Bible word. Jesus emphasized on "inheriting the kingdom". Since the revelation is a prophecy of what will happen in the future, we could conclude that the 144k are the people redeemed from the world to be made kings in God's kingdom established in heaven. This is not a personal opinion but what the Bible teaches.
The disciples of Jesus on earth, were they just followers, weren't they working with him?
The 144000 are humans ruling together with Christ.

Which other people did the bible say will be in the kingdom or "make heaven"?

tctrills:

I agree with most of what you say the only difference is the bible never state that these 144000 would be the only ones to make heaven. It's your personal opinion not back by scripture. Now where in the bible was a number set for those that would make heaven.
We learn from revelations 14 that these 144k were chosen to be Christ entourage and chior. Not that they would be the only ones to make heaven.
They would be with Christ on mount Zion when Christ comes to rule over the earth

Lol I'm following the bible doctrine. You have no verses to counter that there are other people in heaven aside the 144k

tctrills:

I understand you must follow your doctrine but I put God's Word above every doctrine.
I understand that both heaven and earth earth would be ruled by God and his people. But at no time did the bible reveal that any particular number would go to heaven or thathe those on earth wouldn't be able to go to heaven.
Those are all man made teachings, not from the Bible. I respect your opinion and doctrine but you should be honest, these teachings are not from the bible

Nobody555:
Lol I'm following the bible doctrine. You have no verses to counter that there are other people in heaven aside the 144k

So if no verse says only 144k would be in heaven and no verse says more or less would be in heaven. Don't let us act for God. Wait for his revelation before creating your doctrine. Just because no verse says snow does not fall in heaven, I can't start teaching that snow falls in heaven

Nobody555:
First you have to realize that "making heaven" is not a Bible word. Jesus emphasized on "inheriting the kingdom". Since the revelation is a prophecy of what will happen in the future, we could conclude that the 144k are the people redeemed from the world to be made kings in God's kingdom established in heaven. This is not a personal opinion but what the Bible teaches.
The disciples of Jesus on earth, were they just followers, weren't they working with him?
The 144000 are humans ruling together with Christ.

Which other people did the bible say will be in the kingdom or "make heaven"?

We don't conclude. We wait for God to reveal. Your conclusion's are wrong.
The 144000 will rule with Christ but wouldn't be the only ones in heaven.
Heaven is not decided by a number but by our actions on earth.
The Bible teach that these 144k would be with Christ and sing as a choir. It never says they are the only ones to be in heaven. Unless you have another verse to show me

Nobody555:
Lol I'm following the bible doctrine. You have no verses to counter that there are other people in heaven aside the 144k

Again, just so you know, the events of revelations 14 happens before the last judgment. These 144k men are with Jesus before the judgement day when

You snow philosophy is quite different from what we are arguing on.
If the 144k are only the people God revealed to be in heaven to John, why should I believe more or less? Don't you know revelation contains prophecies of what will happen in the future? It's clearly the Bible's doctrine but can chose to believe whatever you want.
I'm not acting on what i don't know but on what is revealed

tctrills:

So if no verse says only 144k would be in heaven and no verse says more or less would be in heaven. Don't let us act for God. Wait for his revelation before creating your doctrine. Just because no verse says snow does not fall in heaven, I can't start teaching that snow falls in heaven

tctrills:

We don't conclude. We wait for God to reveal. Your conclusion's are wrong.
The 144000 will rule with Christ but wouldn't be the only ones in heaven.
Heaven is not decided by a number but by our actions on earth.
The Bible teach that these 144k would be with Christ and sing as a choir. It never says they are the only ones to be in heaven. Unless you have another verse to show me

Revelation 14:3
[3]This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

I don't why i joined this discussion in the first place. Or is it your KJV that's making it hard for you to understand?

They weren't choirs bro shine your eyes and read well!

Nobody555:
You snow philosophy is quite different from what we are arguing on.
If the 144k are only the people God revealed to be in heaven to John, why should I believe more or less? Don't you know revelation contains prophecies of what will happen in the future? It's clearly the Bible's doctrine but can chose to believe whatever you want.
I'm not acting on what i don't know but on what is revealed

You shouldn't believe more or less. You should only believe what the Bible says. That these men where with Jesus in Mount Zion singing. Every other thing is an addition.

If you believe only what the Bible says then we can't be having this argument because the bible didn't say it they are the only ones in heaven or not. The Bible did nothe even suggest it in any way.

Nobody555:


Revelation 14:3
[3]This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

I don't why i joined this discussion in the first place. Or is it your KJV that's making it hard for you to understand?

They weren't choirs bro shine your eyes and read well!

These were the 144k men chosen from the earth solely to learn a song. Nothing more nothing less.

Nobody555:


Revelation 14:3
[3]This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

I don't why i joined this discussion in the first place. Or is it your KJV that's making it hard for you to understand?

They weren't choirs bro shine your eyes and read well!

Where did it say these were the only ones in heaven? That's the part you added

If the bible said only these 144k can be in heaven we wouldn't be having this conversation. It was you that added that.
And hope you know that these 144k are all men. I guess your heaven is a boys club

KJV
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

First they were learning the song in heaven (mount Zion)
Second from verse two voices were heard singing a song but no other creatures in heaven could learn and sing except the 144k.

Does that mean their work na choir. Angels no de heaven wey de sing before? Of course there's meaning for only them to know the song.

Yes don't believe more or less! The Bible only mentioned the 144000 in heaven and that's what I believe. If you can't grasp that no problem.

tctrills:

You shouldn't believe more or less. You should only believe what the Bible says. That these men where with Jesus in Mount Zion singing. Every other thing is an addition.

If you believe only what the Bible says then we can't be having this argument because the bible didn't say it they are the only ones in heaven or not. The Bible did nothe even suggest it in any way.