LordReed:


No, I am laughing because you just seem to have traded one storyteller for another. LoLz.

You may not reply



At least,

Just letting you know I might release some rap songs this month or next

HellVictorinho4:



You may not reply



At least,

Just letting you know I might release some rap songs this month or next

Sounds good. I'll like to hear them when you do.

FatherOfJesus:
Show me evidence for god and I will change my mind

Creation, the resurrection of Jesus, miracles, answers to prayers, etc.

But when you unbelievers say evidence, you're expecting us to fabricate evidence that meets your criteria and you ignore the obvious evidences which are available

LordReed:


No, since such a thing doesn't make sense to me.

Why doesn't it make sense?

LordReed:


Present it first, everything is up for discussion. The fact that to you your evidence is inviolate does not apply to me.

1. The appearances. After He resurrected He appeared to all His disciples at different times and also to 500 disciples at once and also to the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15). This is why His disciples believed that He had risen from the dead. Some have argued that all the people who saw Him alive were hallucinating but the fact is that His disciples weren't expecting Him to rise from the dead at all, because they weren't expecting Him to do so and they wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that He had risen from the dead when He appeared to them. Also, it is impossible for 12 or 500 people to hallucinate the same thing at the same time.

2. The empty grave. The disciples checked the grave to see if He was still there and if He was still there they wouldn't have gone around telling everyone that He has risen from the dead. Even the Pharisees knew that He had risen from the dead because the soldiers guarding the grave went and reported what had happened to them. One may argue that someone may have carried His away to hide but that wouldn't have led the disciples to conclude that He had risen from the dead and also, the soldiers guarding the tomb wouldn't have gone to report what had happened if the body was simply stolen.

3. The conviction. The disciples faced strong persecution because they preached that Jesus had risen from the dead. If indeed they were lying they would have fessed up when they were being beaten and tortured.

Hismasterpiece:


Creation, the resurrection of Jesus, miracles, answers to prayers, etc.

But when you unbelievers say evidence, you're expecting us to fabricate evidence that meets your criteria and you ignore the obvious evidences which are available

Show me evidence for creation, Jesus, miracles and answered prayers, I will change my mind

elated177:


What is there to misunderstand? It is plain enough for all to see and comprehend.
You called him an atheist. You should really admit the error. Prior to that event, did Thomas believe in the Messiah?

You obviously misunderstood me so let this conversation end.

Hismasterpiece:


1. The appearances. After He resurrected He appeared to all His disciples at different times and also to 500 disciples at once and also to the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 15). This is why His disciples believed that He had risen from the dead. Some have argued that all the people who saw Him alive were hallucinating but the fact is that His disciples weren't expecting Him to rise from the dead at all, because they weren't expecting Him to do so and they wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that He had risen from the dead when He appeared to them. Also, it is impossible for 12 or 500 people to hallucinate the same thing at the same time.

2. The empty grave. The disciples checked the grave to see if He was still there and if He was still there they wouldn't have gone around telling everyone that He has risen from the dead. Even the Pharisees knew that He had risen from the dead because the soldiers guarding the grave went and reported what had happened to them. One may argue that someone may have carried His away to hide but that wouldn't have led the disciples to conclude that He had risen from the dead and also, the soldiers guarding the tomb wouldn't have gone to report what had happened if the body was simply stolen.

3. The conviction. The disciples faced strong persecution because they preached that Jesus had risen from the dead. If indeed they were lying they would have fessed up when they were being beaten and tortured.

How is people testifying that someone was alive 2000years ago evidence that he is alive today? I didn't ask for evidence that he resurrected, I asked you for evidence that he is alive at this moment.

Hismasterpiece:


Why doesn't it make sense?

1. It doesn't make sense that this is the solution an all wise god came up with.

2. It doesn't make sense that infinite punishment for finite crimes is considered justice.

3. It doesn't make sense that the so called loving god will waste 99% of the human population because they can't meet some impossible standard. And I am being generous because I doubt even 1 person can meet these impossible standard but I understand you think the blood of Jesus saves you from hell so I can grant that some people have lived so well that their shortcomings are covered by the blood of Jesus. However those people will be or have been exceptionally rare going by what we know of human nature.

4. It doesn't make sense that being unable to have faith in an insufficiently evidenced god is grounds for infinite punishment. There are probably billions of people who never believed in your god mostly because they never heard about him but your god is going to toss em in hell all the same.

5. It doesn't make sense that the god knew this infinite punishment for the vast majority of humanity was going to be the outcome and still went ahead to create humanity exactly as he envisioned.

6. It doesn't make sense that people will suffer such debilitating hardship all their life and your god will cause them to suffer infinitely.

I am sure if I reason some more I can point out much more why it doesn't make sense but these are the ones at the tip of my fingers.

Why don't you devote one year to find out if there was something beyond your beliefs.

What if it was all a lie?

It's easy to advice atheists, Muslims et al. When you can't use your own advice.

LordReed:


1. It doesn't make sense that this is the solution an all wise god came up with.

2. It doesn't make sense that infinite punishment for finite crimes is considered justice.

3. It doesn't make sense that the so called loving god will waste 99% of the human population because they can't meet some impossible standard. And I am being generous because I doubt even 1 person can meet these impossible standard but I understand you think the blood of Jesus saves you from hell so I can grant that some people have lived so well that their shortcomings are covered by the blood of Jesus. However those people will be or have been exceptionally rare going by what we know of human nature.

4. It doesn't make sense that being unable to have faith in an insufficiently evidenced god is grounds for infinite punishment. There are probably billions of people who never believed in your god mostly because they never heard about him but your god is going to toss em in hell all the same.

5. It doesn't make sense that the god knew this infinite punishment for the vast majority of humanity was going to be the outcome and still went ahead to create humanity exactly as he envisioned.

6. It doesn't make sense that people will suffer such debilitating hardship all their life and your god will cause them to suffer infinitely.

I am sure if I reason some more I can point out much more why it doesn't make sense but these are the ones at the tip of my fingers.

Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Isa 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

You need to understand that your thinking is finite. God doesn't reason the way that man does. God's wisdom is foolishness to us and out wisdom is foolishness to God.

Of course it doesn't make sense to you. Why would God infinitely punish people for finite crimes? But that's the beauty of faith. It means we accept God's truth even when we don't fully understand it because truth be told no one can completely understand God's entire revelation.

All I know is that the same God that offers infinite punishment also offers infinite mercies and I am blessed to be among the few who know the truth about God.

If you are waiting to fully grasp the wisdom of God before accepting Him then you'll wait forever because you'll never fully grasp it.

LordReed:


How is people testifying that someone was alive 2000years ago evidence that he is alive today? I didn't ask for evidence that he resurrected, I asked you for evidence that he is alive at this moment.

Asides from appearing to people over 2000 years ago He still appears to people presently. He appeared to Kenneth Hagin severally when he was alive, He appeared to Bill Wiese when He gave him a vision of hell and apart from those He still appears to people till this very day. There are numerous accounts of this on youtube. Did you even watch the videos I shared with you on our other conversation?

Oh and by the way, the early disciples didn't just win people over by simply telling them about Jesus' appearances... there were signs and wonders that followed their testimony which were indeed confirmations from God regarding their testimony about His Son. People believed when they saw the signs. This is properly documented in scripture.

FatherOfJesus:
Show me evidence for creation, Jesus, miracles and answered prayers, I will change my mind

What do you mean by evidence?

Hismasterpiece:


Isa 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the LORD.
Isa 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

You need to understand that your thinking is finite. God doesn't reason the way that man does. God's wisdom is foolishness to us and out wisdom is foolishness to God.

Of course it doesn't make sense to you. Why would God infinitely punish people for finite crimes? But that's the beauty of faith. It means we accept God's truth even when we don't fully understand it because truth be told no one can completely understand God's entire revelation.

All I know is that the same God that offers infinite punishment also offers infinite mercies and I am blessed to be among the few who know the truth about God.

If you are waiting to fully grasp the wisdom of God before accepting Him then you'll wait forever because you'll never fully grasp it.

So the god gave me a brain to bypass it when it comes to him? Well that doesn't make sense either. In any case I am happy to take my chances, if there is a god that gave me a brain to reason with but says be foolish in other to please me then he is the one to blame not me.

Hismasterpiece:


Asides from appearing to people over 2000 years ago He still appears to people presently. He appeared to Kenneth Hagin severally when he was alive, He appeared to Bill Wiese when He gave him a vision of hell and apart from those He still appears to people till this very day. There are numerous accounts of this on youtube. Did you even watch the videos I shared with you on our other conversation?

Oh and by the way, the early disciples didn't just win people over by simply telling them about Jesus' appearances... there were signs and wonders that followed their testimony which were indeed confirmations from God regarding their testimony about His Son. People believed when they saw the signs. This is properly documented in scripture.

Please stop with the ancient history I am asking about present day. So once again the question is do you think visions are a sufficient evidence? I just listened to someone who said Freya the Norse goddess walked bodily into his room and spoke not only to him but his wife also, does that convince you that Freya is real and alive? Note this guy also used to be a Christian.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWyZ3Xdz3k0

Here is someone else:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I4BOQS1Edo

Hismasterpiece:


What do you mean by evidence?

What kind of question is this?
Evidence is evidence, it doesn't mean any other thing

FatherOfJesus:
What kind of question is this?
Evidence is evidence, it doesn't mean any other thing

That's the thing with you atheists. When you say evidence you are really just asking for evidence that fits your paradigm and not the one that is readily available.

LordReed:


Please stop with the ancient history I am asking about present day. So once again the question is do you think visions are a sufficient evidence? I just listened to someone who said Freya the Norse goddess walked bodily into his room and spoke not only to him but his wife also, does that convince you that Freya is real and alive? Note this guy also used to be a Christian.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWyZ3Xdz3k0

Here is someone else:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I4BOQS1Edo

How is Bill Wiese and Kenneth Hagin ancient history? These are things that happened in modern times. Sigh. There really is no convincing you is there? I just feel sorry for you atheists. Especially you who used to be a Christian and know about the Gospel. There is a greater condemnation to those who knew the truth and rejected it. Sigh.

And I'm sure that when you're in hell being punished you'll remember these conversations you had with Christians and will be full of regret and remorse but it will be too late. I just hope that at some point before you die you reconsider your beliefs and turn to the living God. Sigh.

LordReed:


So the god gave me a brain to bypass it when it comes to him? Well that doesn't make sense either. In any case I am happy to take my chances, if there is a god that gave me a brain to reason with but says be foolish in other to please me then he is the one to blame not me.

Lol... if you say so.

Hismasterpiece:


How is Bill Wiese and Kenneth Hagin ancient history? These are things that happened in modern times. Sigh. There really is no convincing you is there? I just feel sorry for you atheists. Especially you who used to be a Christian and know about the Gospel. There is a greater condemnation to those who knew the truth and rejected it. Sigh.

And I'm sure that when you're in hell being punished you'll remember these conversations you had with Christians and will be full of regret and remorse but it will be too late. I just hope that at some point before you die you reconsider your beliefs and turn to the living God. Sigh.

I wasn't talking of them but of your 2nd paragraph.

Did you watch the videos? Are you convinced that Freya the Norse goddess is alive?

Hismasterpiece:


You obviously misunderstood me so let this conversation end.

Let the conversation end on the basis you know that you erred.

Hismasterpiece:


Lol... if you say so.

LoLz sure. Meanwhile you are yet to answer if I should also consider the visions and testimonies of other religions as valid as well.

Hismasterpiece:


That's the thing with you atheists. When you say evidence you are really just asking for evidence that fits your paradigm and not the one that is readily available.

Thiest lack basic understanding of what evidence is.
That's why you think miracles, Jesus etc are evidence. How do you repeatedly test them?
Those are claims and more claims and not evidence

I love sat guru

elated177:
In this world where there is constant warfare between the forces of good/light/righteousness and the forces of evil/darkness/unrighteousness, someone will want us to believe that he/she is an atheist!

All the things happening around us are a reflection of the spiritual --- 100%.

And you know this because........?

Complete the sentence

LordReed:


1. It doesn't make sense that this is the solution an all wise god came up with.

2. It doesn't make sense that infinite punishment for finite crimes is considered justice.

3. It doesn't make sense that the so called loving god will waste 99% of the human population because they can't meet some impossible standard. And I am being generous because I doubt even 1 person can meet these impossible standard but I understand you think the blood of Jesus saves you from hell so I can grant that some people have lived so well that their shortcomings are covered by the blood of Jesus. However those people will be or have been exceptionally rare going by what we know of human nature.

4. It doesn't make sense that being unable to have faith in an insufficiently evidenced god is grounds for infinite punishment. There are probably billions of people who never believed in your god mostly because they never heard about him but your god is going to toss em in hell all the same.

5. It doesn't make sense that the god knew this infinite punishment for the vast majority of humanity was going to be the outcome and still went ahead to create humanity exactly as he envisioned.

6. It doesn't make sense that people will suffer such debilitating hardship all their life and your god will cause them to suffer infinitely.

I am sure if I reason some more I can point out much more why it doesn't make sense but these are the ones at the tip of my fingers.

I saw the reply the guy you quoted gave to this post and I realized many theist are either psychos or they don't really sit down to think about the things in their religion! In real life when I argue with christians, I get the same reply as your friend, they all have no problem with an all powerful, benevolent merciful God punishing people infinitely for finite crimes (which is even his fault in the first place!) At this point it is safe to say it is only outside religion you can really see the madness and depravity that is really theism! This their sycophancy towards an alleged loving father is really sickening!

sonmvayina:
I love sat guru

What do I believe that I don't know?

Femzaremz:
I saw the reply the guy you quoted gave to this post and I realized many theist are either psychos or they don't really sit down to think about the things in their religion! In real life when I argue with christians, I get the same reply as your friend, they all have no problem with an all powerful, benevolent merciful God punishing people infinitely for finite crimes (which is even his fault in the first place!) At this point it is safe to say it is only outside religion you can really see the madness and depravity that is really theism! This their sycophancy towards an alleged loving father is really sickening!

When you are steeped in a belief it is very hard to think of that belief in a negative light because you'll have to admit that your beliefs are rubbish which will lead you to asking yourself why you believe in rubbish. Coupled with the fear drilled into them that if they exit the religion something bad will happen to them, they never make the leap. I have some empathy for them cos I used to be that scared person, afraid to look at my beliefs and admit they sounded bizarre.

LordReed:


What do I believe that I don't know?

Whatever you think you don't......or know..

sonmvayina:


Whatever you think you don't......or know..

So you don't know and are just pretending to know? How are you any better than the people you think your guru is lambasting?

FYI your guru is talking thrash, at least when it comes to me.

I imagine how miracles happen if there is no supreme being behind it. The sick getting healings, the dead waking from dead, the lame walking, the blind regaining sight, anoiting oil boosting business that was down and so on. You better don't let any stupid scientist proof that are senseless decieve you. I pray that you guys won't trying repenting from ur destructive mentality before is too late.

LordReed:


So you don't know and are just pretending to know? How are you any better than the people you think your guru is lambasting?

FYI your guru is talking thrash, at least when it comes to me.

How old are you?

Just give me a range.

Your answer swells of ignorance..you stillhave a lot to learn.

And you have not even started..