Wilgrea7:
Happy Sunday wonderful people.

When it comes to religion, especially in Nigeria, questioning your specific religion or beliefs is something that's usually frowned upon. In any civilized society, it definitely shouldn't be the case.

I'm not here to try and sway anyone away from what they believe in. I just want people who have questions to know its okay to have those questions. And if they're willing to seek answers objectively, its possible to do so too.

I'll also be creating some more topics on the different aspects of religion, and belief in God/gods in general, as time goes on.

My goal is to have honest, open-minded discussions on topics like this. Stay tuned for more. Peace

It is very much ok to question your beliefs. This much I have come to extrapolate from my Scriptures. You see, the Creator is an intelligent Being. He created humans and gave them intelligence. He didn't create us to be zombies.

Deut 29:29  The secret things belong to YHVH our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.


Humans are never going to know everything. Everything that those who seek, and will seek, the Creator need has been revealed to us. He is never going to reveal what he doesn't see as necessary in our search for him.

So, it is normal to have questions bordering on one's beliefs.

Matthew 7: 7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Acts 17: 24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 YHVH did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

Pay particular attention to the italicized portion, verse 27, of the Scripture quoted directly above.

To wrap up:

Hebrews 1: 1 In the past YHVH spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

I had to quote from my Scriptures because of the stance that I have taken in this discourse.

Maynmann:


So before you got to that diet, you ask questions and even did RESEARCH, ONLY some foods are good, not ALL foods are good even though they are called “food”, so you now agree that asking questions leads to better understanding so as to find the perfect diet, and not just all food and water and clothes are good, certain ones are good.
But before you arrived at it you questioned and questioned yourself .

I never said questioning is bad but it's uncalled for when you're enjoying the benefits of what you have!

It's when you don't see benefits in what you're doing that raises question on why doing it!

MaxInDHouse:


I never said questioning is bad but it's uncalled for when you're enjoying the benefits of what you have!

It's when you don't see benefits in what you're doing that raises question on why doing it!

[/b]How did you arrive at that “benefit” if you didn’t question others to see if they are of benefit too. You gained it through years and experience, it was not a day thing right?[b]
How did you know others are not benefiting from theirs too?
Is you thinking your farm is the biggest in town, when some other farms are bigger than your town.

Maynmann:

You haven’t been an atheist, how did you know it won’t benefit you more? Have you done any research on It? What about mandeism?

Do you have to test all kinds of food before you know the poisonous ones?

Well it's by observing the health condition of those eating it that will make you know that what they're eating is not good for consumption!

Atheists have nothing to present when talking about a better option for religion so i never tasted their food i only observed it and the appearance of those eating it from a distance just as you won't go any closer to poisonous foods!

Maynmann:


[/b]How did you arrive at that “benefit” if you didn’t question others to see if they are of benefit too. You gained it through years and experience, it was not a day thing right?[b]
How did you know others are not benefiting from theirs too?
Is you thinking your farm is the biggest in town, when some other farms are bigger than your town.

Let them present it first nah!

I keep asking for a better performing group because i know there's none!

MaxInDHouse:


Do you have to test all kinds of food before you know the poisonous ones?

Well it's by observing the health condition of those eating it that will make you know that what they're eating is not good for consumption!

Atheists have nothing to present when talking about a better option for religion so i never tasted their food i only observed it and the appearance of those eating it from a distance just as you won't go any closer to poisonous foods!

I don’t have to taste all kinds of food to know how healthy they are , we have doctors, scientists and farmers that have investigated it and shared the information.
How did you observe them are you guys not eating together?
Is observation not experience?
This is slow.
What do you mean “atheists” have nothing to present, are you not the one that will do the questioning and research?

MaxInDHouse:


Let them present it first nah!

I keep asking for a better performing group because i know there's none!

But you said you’ve research and questioned others to know that watchtower is the best?

Maynmann:

I don’t have to taste all kinds of food to know how healthy they are , we have doctors, scientists and farmers that have investigated it and shared the information.
Is observation not experience?
This is slow.
What do you mean “atheists” have nothing to present, are you not the one that will do the questioning and research?

Note that i have questioned many atheists in the past both home and abroad in different countries so i can tell you confidently that they are completely empty when talking about a better substitute for FAITH!

MaxInDHouse:


Note that i have questioned many atheists in the past both home and abroad in different countries so i can tell you confidently that they are completely empty when talking about a better substitute for FAITH!

So that makes up your experience and research? Is this the same way you did for other religion apart from watchtower?

Maynmann:

But you said you’ve research and questioned others to know that watchtower is the best?

I wasn't born a member of Watchtower i made a thorough research before discovering them!

MaxInDHouse:


I wasn't born a member of Watchtower i made a thorough research before discovering them!

How do you know other religion are not also benefiting more than yours?


So you questioned your parent belief and you did research, in your research were your parents not benefiting from that religion?

Maynmann:

So that makes up your experience and research? Is this the same way you did for other religion apart from watchtower?

First of all we have used the case of food so let's continue illustrating how things can work using food as a case study.

Note that there's just one reason everyone eats even though some are more enjoyable and nourishing than others and due to people's condition they can't afford what they really need for nourishment.
But on the other hand case information is cheap so it costs much lesser than food.

Information is not just for stocking your files with everything but getting the best out of the information around you. Therefore what exactly is the BENEFIT of information?
Well it's to lighten up your spirit because sad news affects our health mentally, emotionally and physically.

Please can you tell me what good news atheists have that's a match for what faith can offer?

MaxInDHouse:


First of all we have used the case of food so let's continue illustrating how things can work using food as a case study.

Note that there's just one reason everyone eats even though some are more enjoyable and nourishing than others and due to people's condition they can't afford what they really need for nourishment.
But on the other hand case information is cheap so it costs much lesser than food.

Information is not just for stocking your files with everything but getting the best out of the information around you. Therefore what exactly is the BENEFIT of information?
Well it's to lighten up your spirit because sad news affects our health mentally, emotionally and physically.

Please can you tell me what good news atheists have that's a match for what faith can offer?

People eat food so as not to starve. This is slow.
How did you get those informationS, if you didn’t ask questions and do research?
Was it watchtower that came to preach and convinced you? Or you did your own research independently?

Maynmann:

How do you know other religion are not also benefiting more than yours?

All other religions can't relate peacefully with their fellow believers in other countries due to racism and politics, and that's the only purpose of religion. If we're talking about our sky daddy but can't resolve issues among ourselves instead we need weapons to kill or intimidate our fellow brothers under the same sky daddy then there's no daddy anywhere!

So you questioned your parent belief and you did research, in your research were your parents not benefiting from that religion?

My parents were Muslims. My own uncle once travelled to Mecca and came back only to denounce Islam. WHY? Because he was denied water by an Arabian whose water was enough for both of them to do their usual cleansing before prayer. My uncle always thought this people are God's people only for the Arabian to rush at my uncle, grabbed the plastic kettle from him and spilled the water then gave him back the empty kettle telling him to go and buy his own. It's from there my uncle regretted ever been a Muslim, he said he was shocked that others laughed at him instead of rebuking the man. I never left Islam until i realized that there is a religion on this planet that's doing better as soldiers than we in the army!

Our aim as soldiers is not just to kill but make our opposers surrender that's why we use force and weapons. But JWs have successfully achieved what we're trying without weapons or force. They used just the Bible!
Millions across the globe have surrendered to what the Bible teaches, they have resolve all their racial disparities, divert all their resources into the production of food and information materials, stopped the production and use of WEAPONS and vowed never to raise weapons against their fellowman again! Isaiah 2:2-4 compare to Zephaniah 3:9

Please there's nothing i expected from any organization of sane humans better than that!

Maynmann:

People eat food so as not to starve. This is slow.
How did you get those informationS, if you didn’t ask questions and do research?
Was it watchtower that came to preach and convinced you? Or you did your own research independently?

Ọmọ if you're an atheist this is the opportunity you've been waiting for!
Tell me the good news about atheism!

MaxInDHouse:


All other religions can't relate peacefully with their fellow believers in other countries due to racism and politics, and that's the only purpose of religion. If we're talking about our sky daddy but can't resolve issues among ourselves instead we need weapons to kill or intimidate our fellow brothers under the same sky daddy then there's no daddy anywhere!



My parents were Muslims. My own uncle once travelled to Mecca and came back only to denounce Islam. WHY? Because he was denied water by an Arabian whose water was enough for both of them to do their usual cleansing before prayer. My uncle always thought this people are God's people only for the Arabian to rush at my uncle, grabbed the plastic kettle from him and spilled the water then gave him back the empty kettle telling him to go and buy his own. It's from there my uncle regretted ever been a Muslim, he said he was shocked that others laughed at him instead of rebuking the man. I never left Islam until i realized that there is a religion on this planet that's doing better as soldiers than we in the army!

Our aim as soldiers is not just to kill but make our opposers surrender that's why we use force and weapons. But JWs have successfully achieved what we're trying without weapons or force. They used just the Bible!
Millions across the globe have surrendered to what the Bible teaches, they have resolve all their racial disparities, divert all their resources into the production of food and information materials, stopped the production and use of WEAPONS and vowed never to raise weapons against their fellowman again! Isaiah 2:2-4 compare to Zephaniah 3:9

Please there's nothing i expected from any organization of sane humans better than that!

Mention the other religion?
Is hinduism and mandeism part?

So because they didn’t give him access that’s why he didn’t benefit from the RELIGION, I’m talking about the religion, is it Mecca that he is worshipping? and I was talking about your parents, didn’t your parents know of this yet they still continue?
Didn’t your parent benefit from the RELIGION.

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ if you're an atheist this is the opportunity you've been waiting for!
Tell me the good news about atheism!

Goofed, people eat not to starve , that’s slow of you.

So which particular country are atheist and yahwism are not relating peacefully that was your only criteria for choosing watchtower.


So watchtower came to convince you and you didn’t do an independent research? Did you question them?

Maynmann:


Mention the other religion?
Is hinduism and mandeism part?

So because they didn’t give him access that’s why he didn’t benefit from the RELIGION, I’m talking about the religion and I was talking about your parents, didn’t your parents know of this yet they still continue?
Didn’t your parent benefit from the RELIGION.

Just as the topic of this thread says it's not everyone that QUESTION their religion so my parents are the type that don't question their religion even when they can see all the benefits i'm getting through my new found faith they only push their other children to me saying i'm a special child and JWs snatched me from Islam!

So unlike people who are ready to question their religion my parents aren't ready to do so!

MaxInDHouse:


Just as the topic of this thread says it's not everyone that QUESTION their religion so my parents are the type that don't question their religion even when they can see all the benefits i'm getting through my new found faith they only push their other children to me saying i'm a special child and JWs snatched me from Islam!

So unlike people who are ready to question their religion my parents aren't ready to do so!

Where in the topic of this thread insinuates that?
You didn’t see the benefit of your parent religion in their lives?
So you don’t know if the religion benefits them or not? But you know they are not the type to question their beliefs, you did research indeed, why are you not using all your knowledge to convince them like you do here?

So your “thorough” research was only base on your parent religion and watchtower?

MaxInDHouse:


Just as the topic of this thread says it's not everyone that QUESTION their religion so my parents are the type that don't question their religion even when they can see all the benefits i'm getting through my new found faith they only push their other children to me saying i'm a special child and JWs snatched me from Islam!

So unlike people who are ready to question their religion my parents aren't ready to do so!

See who is dodging now.
“All other religions can't relate peacefully with their fellow believers in other countries due to racism and politics“
Mention the other religions.

Maynmann:

Goofed, people eat not to starve , that’s slow of you.
So which particular country are atheist and yahwism are not relating peacefully that was your only criteria for choosing watchtower.
So watchtower came to convince you and you didn’t do an independent research? Did you question them?

Ọmọ i'm an ex agent of the intelligence so i can tell you that there is no group of people involved in politics that can love members of their group!

Do atheists get involved in politics like making choices during political struggle?

Your fellow atheist that you're joyously chatting with on Instagram will shoot you at sight because of politics and racism.
Jehovah's Witnesses have quenched this missile completely in their organization so when you here of violent protests, terror or wars know today that you can't find a single JW in their midst!

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ i'm an ex agent of the intelligence so i can tell you that there is no group of people involved in politics that can love members of their group!

Do atheists get involved in politics like making choices during political struggle?

Your fellow atheist that you're joyously chatting with on Instagram will shoot you at sight because of politics and racism.
Jehovah's Witnesses have quenched this missile completely in their organization so when you here of violent protests, terror or wars know today that you can't find a single JW in their midst!

Who send you story?

Stop dodging.
So which particular country are atheist and yahwism are not relating peacefully that was your only criteria for choosing watchtower.
So watchtower came to convince you and you didn’t do an independent research? Did you question them?

Wilgrea7:


Thank you very much for this question. Really. This is something I've been wanting to talk about for a while. By supernatural I would assume you're talking about something that can't be explained by our current knowledge of the physical universe.

The supernatural, I believe, is not just something that can't be explained by your current knowledge of the physical universe, but also what you will never be able to replicate or accomplish using any knowledge of the physical universe. So, whatever falls into the category of the supernatural must be something that requires some kind of supernatural power or force. Don't you think so? For instance, physics, in its own way, has been able to state how thunder and lightning likely occur, but cannot make them roar and blaze in the sky. Or am I not correct?

Wilgrea7:

I want to use the example of the burning bush. Let's say I wake up and all of a sudden, my chair is on fire. Although the fire doesn't consume it. And this said fire is talking to me (I swapped out chair for the bush in the story of Moses)

So let me ask a follow-up question. Why do i have to believe a supernatural being which appears before me and performs these "miracles" is telling the truth. Objectively speaking, is there any thing that prevents something which can perform extraordinary feats from lying?

In the scenario that you created above, why wouldn't you believe such a supernatural being if no other supernatural being has ever accomplished, or will ever accomplish, such a feat? If no other supernatural being even has the ability to accomplish such a feat, why won't you believe?

About the supernatural being lying. Before you can even accuse such being of lying, you must have a previous experience of such feat, especially from or with another supernatural being. Don't you agree? If not, with what are you going to use as a template for the comparison and the subsequent conclusion?

Just so we are clear; God spoke to Moses from within the bush and other supernatural signs were given to him right there. The Scripture didn't say that the fire spoke to Moses.

Wilgrea7:

A supernatural being as you've put it, appearing before me and claiming to be "God" is only trying to "defeat a strawman" which is basically disproving a fake argument. What rule is there that says a supernatural event or encounter is needed to serve as proof of a "God"?

What rule is there that says a supernatural event or encounter is not needed as proof of any god?

Wilgrea7:

If i wanted to prove to you that I built a rocket from scratch, and then proceeded to do a fancy dance, and throw a piece of dynamite on the ground as proof, does that mean I really built a rocket?

Nope!

Wilgrea7:

Let me use a much more practical example. We are Nigerians. We know what they call jazz or voodoo. If someone performed used voodoo to appear before you, and turned your dog into a chicken, and then said to you "I am your creator.. I created the entire universe".. would you believe the person? I don't think so.

What you said above is a bit tricky. One must tackle it with utmost care.

My question now is: "has there ever been a scenario where anyone used jazz or voodoo or whatever to turn a dog into chicken?

To turn a dog into chicken means that such power can also create a dog and a chicken. Don't you think so?

Any power that has the ability to accomplish such a feat should be able to do more. It means, therefore, that if such power can literally turn a man into a horse or horse into a man, such power can also create man as well as a horse. What do you think?

Wilgrea7:

Supernatural experiences are proofs of supernatural experiences. Nothing more. Proof of a supreme independent, and creator God of the universe is completely different from some supernatural experience occurring.

Supernatural occurrences and experiences are proofs that supernatural powers and beings exist. The supernatural events, occurrences and experiences can't be separated from how the Creator works. Is it even possible?

If a supernatural Being told you that he made the universe and everything in it - humans, plants, animals, the sun, the moon, the stars, thunder and lightning, the rain, the wind, the seas, etc, and he said he could prove it by exerting some influence on the sun and he did, would you believe in him?

Maynmann:

Where in the topic of this thread insinuates that?
You didn’t see the benefit of your parent religion in their lives?
So you don’t know if the religion benefits them or not? But you know they are not the type to question their beliefs, you did research indeed, why are you not using all your knowledge to convince them like you do here?

So your “thorough” research was only base on your parent religion and watchtower?

You're the one that brought the case of my parents i've dealt with many people.
You too has been arguing bitterly on this forum nah.
Have you convinced your families before coming here?

MaxInDHouse:


You're the one that brought the case of my parents i've dealt with many people.
You too has been arguing bitterly on this forum nah.
Have you convinced your families before coming here?

You were the one that brought in your parent religion, you forgot that quick?
And I asked a simple question, you’ve done research and ask questions right?
How did you know islam didn’t favor your parents and uncle, I’m talking about Islam not random people in mecca.
Didn’t you see the benefit of Islam in your parent live?

You the one sounding bitter.

Maynmann:


What a jargons
I know you’ve heard this before; you are dumbest theist on nairaland.

Somebody else has noticed too...

No be only me..

Maynmann:

Who send you story?
Stop dodging.
So which particular country are atheist and yahwism are not relating peacefully that was your only criteria for choosing watchtower.
So watchtower came to convince you and you didn’t do an independent research? Did you question them?

Wow! Please don't get upset over this, you know today is the first day you and i will have a healthy conversation without you insulting or abusing me so calm down and let's reason!

I have done my own research but since you've seen much better than i do can you tell me how atheists are coping with racism and politics so they won't have to kill their fellow atheists in other lands?

MaxInDHouse:


Wow! Please don't get upset over this, you know today is the first day you and i will have a healthy conversation without you insulting or abusing me so calm down and let's reason!

I have done my own research but since you've seen much better than i do can you tell me how atheists are coping with racism and politics so they won't have to kill their fellow atheists in other lands?

Ad hominem, keep dodging.
Which research did you do on yahwism, athiesm, mandeism, care to share?
Stop dodging.
So which particular country are atheist and yahwism are not relating peacefully that was your only criteria for choosing watchtower.
So watchtower came to convince you and you didn’t do an independent research? Did you question them?

Maynmann:

You were the one that brought in your parent religion, you forgot that quick?
And I asked a simple question, you’ve done research and ask questions right?
How did you know islam didn’t favor your parents and uncle, I’m talking about Islam not random people in mecca.
Didn’t you see the benefit of Islam in your parent live?

You the one sounding bitter.

Please can you quote an earlier comment that i mentioned parents before you asked the below question?

Maynmann:

How do you know other religion are not also benefiting more than yours?
So you questioned your parent belief and you did research, in your research were your parents not benefiting from that religion?

MaxInDHouse:


Please can you quote an earlier comment that i mentioned parents before you asked the below question?

Parent RELIGION.
Cunning like yaldaboath

You want to derail this thread, you not saying truth anymore? Bwahahahah

MaxInDHouse:


Please can you quote an earlier comment that i mentioned parents before you asked the below question?

Don’t t dodge
And I asked a simple question, you’ve done research and ask questions right?
How did you know islam didn’t favor your parents and uncle, I’m talking about Islam not random people in mecca.
Didn’t you see the benefit of Islam in your parent live?

Maynmann:

Ad hominem, keep dodging.
Which research did you do on yahwism, athiesm, mandeism, care to share?
Stop dodging.
So which particular country are atheist and yahwism are not relating peacefully that was your only criteria for choosing watchtower.
So watchtower came to convince you and you didn’t do an independent research? Did you question them?

Are you killing atheists in your neighbourhood for any justifiable reason?

Ọmọ i'm telling you that an atheist or any other religion in other countries will kill you due to politics and racism but only JWs have erased politics and racism from the hearts of their members.

If you know any group that has performed any closer than that just tell me instead of asking the same question.
I don't have to taste all kinds of food before knowing the poisonous ones nah!

If you know any RELIGION or atheist group that has successfully erased politics and racism from the hearts of their members tell me now!