Is there a method, mechanism or criteria to determine what parts of the bible are to be followed and what parts are OK not to follow?. . .I say this because I see christians picking and choosing moral codes and injuctions from the bible they believe is right for them and discarding what they don't believe is right for them. . . Christians pretend that the morality they do choose is authoritative while ignoring the fact that the parts they don't like have the same authority. The excuse I have heard christians use most is that the morality they don't like was for people of a different time or something along that line when put in a corner just to excuse some absurdity away. . . .Some will say Jesus has done away with the OT laws but they still quote many OT laws to justify their claims or moral principles. . . .

Here is an example:

Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuality is evil. Homosexuals should not be allowed to marry, for it says in the Word of God:

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV)
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

Leviticus 20:13 (KJV)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:26-29 (NIV)
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural intimate relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who Be Intimate with men
Pretty clear, right? Christians all over the world make a strong effort to publicly condemn homosexuality.

Pretty clear, right? Many Christians all over the world make a strong effort to publicly condemn homosexuality as a bad thing because Go says its bad in the bible.

Yet there are other rules that Christians seem almost completely silent on, yet there they are, in the word of God, sometimes within a page or two of all of that Same-sex-comdemning stuff. . . .Things like laws regarding women. . . .

Leviticus 15:19-30 (KJV)
19And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. 20And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean.
21And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
22And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
23And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.
24And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean.
25And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she shall be unclean.
26Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation.
27And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.
28But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.
29And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
30And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness.

In the NT we find injunctions like. . . .

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)
Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

I've meet many female pastors, and most churches I've been in women speak freely. . . .

1 Timothy 2:9-15 (NIV)
I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

If the writer of this verse visit's christian churches today he will shed tears. . . .

Deuteronomy 22:23-24
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Laws of violation   

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man is caught in the act of Desecrating a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Matthew 6:5-8
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

I guess this verse needs to be read to so many Christians. . . . .

I could go on, and on, and on. Needless to say, there are MANY rules in the old and new testaments that are blatantly ignored. Why? Why focus on some rules and not others? Why are some parts of the bible so often repeated, and others completely ignored?

So again I ask:

Is there a method, mechanism or criteria to determine what parts of the bible are to be followed and what parts are OK not to follow? Or it is their individual infallible holy ghosts that tell them so?

I think you need at least 8 hours sleep.

That why i tell you that he Bible is just a piece of literature, jare, its too contradictory, many has adultrated it and the original context has been reshaped to suit some kind of life style

^^

And so says the spiritually dead man !!!!

frosbel:

^^

And so says the spiritually dead man !!!!

Is homosexuality a sin?. . . .

(KJV Matt 23:23)Jesus said,
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Neither Jesus nor any of His apostles ever stated (make sure you do th things u consider to be important and the rest is comparatively unimportant.) all laws are important. On the contrary, Jesus was saying to us, (set in order not only th big isues but we should make sure that we don’t leave anythin undone. In light of tht, as to whether any issue is actualy (great) or (small) it really makes no difference because Jesus has told us He wants it ALL done.

U dont have to say all christians are deleting/silenting some verses in the old testament, some laws are over shadowed in the old TM by the new NT when Jesus came. Like the hair covering thing, In (1 Corinthians 11: 1-16) almost all todays christian women dont cover ( including me) It all depense on the faith of a particular christian, or culture of a church. Although i see that U ve made some nice points as par the verses concerning the PRAYER and women
mode of dressing in todays church, i believe these things are happening to accomplish Gods word, but at same time, some are still respecting both the old and new Law.

i'd love to be involved in this, hopefully mazaje would not run away as usual. You have an habit of disappearing it seems.
To start with, the Word of God is living, not set in stone but written on flesh. It follows that you'd encounter 'complexities' similar to encountering a human being. Another thing is poor understanding of the Word of God, caused by varying factors like sin, adam's nature, self-will, spiritual maturity, teaching etc.
Another thing is that old testament laws are broadly divided into moral laws and ceremonial laws. No law saves us by the way. We are expected to keep/obey moral laws though many christians do not know this unfortunately. On the other hand, we're not required to keep ceremonial laws, it's already been kept/fulfilled/obeyed/by-passed for us by Jesus Christ.ist.

plappville:


U dont have to say all christians are deleting/silenting some verses in the old testament, some laws are over shadowed in the old TM by the new NT when Jesus came.

This is totally false. Paul in order to make the message popular, bastardized the teachings of Jesus. Almost everything in Christianity today is based on the teachings of Paul, a fake egotistic wannabe apostle. Almost all sermons are preached from Pauls epistles with little or no attention paid to the simple teachings of Jesus.

I laugh when some folks here claim Paul was the one with the true revelation. INDEED! (Im being sarcastic). Here is what Paul had to say

1 Corinthians 7:40

40But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

He is not even sure he has the spirit of God. Why would he ? A delusional man who never was in the inner circle suddenly "saw the light" and began to bicker with his betters.

Paul is the major curse of Christianity and unfortunately he was a great psychologist. You want the devil ? His name is Paul. Formerly Saul.

In anycase, here is what Jesus himself had to say on the matter (which I would think is more important than anything Paul himself had to say)

Matthew 5:17-18

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I think that much sums it up because last I checked, heaven and earth had not passed away.

I'm now waiting for someone to bring up some ridiculous argument to disprove Jesus himself.
Theres nothing like a second covenant. Its just some BS Paul made up on his own.

I know there are hardcore Paulinians out there, but in truth, you are better of studying Jesus than Paul.

^^^ In addition to the above you would think that Paul would harp on the teachings of Jesus instead of needlessly complicating things. What happened to lessons like the beatitudes ? What happened to the emphasis on loving your neighbour ?
Why did Jesus say he would drive those away because he was hungry and they wouldnt feed him ?

Why is the mumbo jumbo of Paul preferred ?

Image123:

i'd love to be involved in this, hopefully mazaje would not run away as usual. You have an habit of disappearing it seems.
To start with, the Word of God is living, not set in stone but written on flesh. It follows that you'd encounter 'complexities' similar to encountering a human being. Another thing is poor understanding of the Word of God, caused by varying factors like sin, adam's nature, self-will, spiritual maturity, teaching etc.
Another thing is that old testament laws are broadly divided into moral laws and ceremonial laws. No law saves us by the way. We are expected to keep/obey moral laws though many christians do not know this unfortunately. On the other hand, we're not required to keep ceremonial laws, it's already been kept/fulfilled/obeyed/by-passed for us by Jesus Christ.ist.

Which are the ceremonial laws and which are the moral laws? Is tithing a ceremonial or moral laws? What about the law with instruct parents to stone to death their disobedient children? Is it a ceremonial or moral law?. . . . .

This should be on the front page

@mazaje
good work. i bet there are even more to talk on.

@frosbel
you dont sound too impressive at all. so what did mazaje do wrong? are you not reading the plain words?

jayriginal:

^^^ In addition to the above you would think that Paul would harp on the teachings of Jesus instead of needlessly complicating things. What happened to lessons like the beatitudes ? What happened to the emphasis on loving your neighbour ?
Why did Jesus say he would drive those away because he was hungry and they wouldnt feed him ?

Why is the mumbo jumbo of Paul preferred ?

interestingly, Paul never ever quoted Jesus in any of his sermons. Paul neither knew Jesus nor what Jesus stood for. what we call christianity todayis essentially Pauline doctrine. if Jesus is the cornerstone of Christianity, then any doctrine that contradicts him sholu be null and void.
The reason that Pualine doctrine enjoys suprememacy is because Jesus never intended to be the founder of a religion. Paul did.

mazaje:

Is there a method, mechanism or criteria to determine what parts of the bible are to be followed and what parts are OK not to follow?. . .I say this because I see christians picking and choosing moral codes and injuctions from the bible they believe is right for them and discarding what they don't believe is right for them. . . Christians pretend that the morality they do choose is authoritative while ignoring the fact that the parts they don't like have the same authority. The excuse I have heard christians use most is that the morality they don't like was for people of a different time or something along that line when put in a corner just to excuse some absurdity away. . . .Some will say Jesus has done away with the OT laws but they still quote many OT laws to justify their claims or moral principles. . . .

Here is an example:

Homosexuality is a sin. Homosexuality is evil. Homosexuals should not be allowed to marry, for it says in the Word of God:

Pretty clear, right? Many Christians all over the world make a strong effort to publicly condemn homosexuality as a bad thing because Go says its bad in the bible.

Yet there are other rules that Christians seem almost completely silent on, yet there they are, in the word of God, sometimes within a page or two of all of that Same-sex-comdemning stuff. . . .Things like laws regarding women. . . .

In the NT we find injunctions like. . . .

I've meet many female pastors, and most churches I've been in women speak freely. . . .

If the writer of this verse visit's christian churches today he will shed tears. . . .

Laws of violation

I guess this verse needs to be read to so many Christians. . . . .

I could go on, and on, and on. Needless to say, there are MANY rules in the old and new testaments that are blatantly ignored. Why? Why focus on some rules and not others? Why are some parts of the bible so often repeated, and others completely ignored?

So again I ask:

Is there a method, mechanism or criteria to determine what parts of the bible are to be followed and what parts are OK not to follow? Or it is their individual infallible holy ghosts that tell them so?

Good question.
How many christians do you think actually read the bible? And how many of those that read it do u think actually understand it?
Selective amnesia is a part of human nature.
Since I was a teenager, I have been searching the bible to see any proof of this love of god that is preached so very often. I'm yet to see any act of love in the bible. all I see are hate, anger, tantrums, prejudice, wars, genocides and injustice.

Image123:

i'd love to be involved in this, hopefully mazaje would not run away as usual. You have an habit of disappearing it seems.
To start with, the Word of God is living, not set in stone but written on flesh. It follows that you'd encounter 'complexities' similar to encountering a human being. Another thing is poor understanding of the Word of God, caused by varying factors like sin, adam's nature, self-will, spiritual maturity, teaching etc.
Another thing is that old testament laws are broadly divided into moral laws and ceremonial laws. No law saves us by the way. We are expected to keep/obey moral laws though many christians do not know this unfortunately. On the other hand, we're not required to keep ceremonial laws, it's already been kept/fulfilled/obeyed/by-passed for us by Jesus Christ.ist.

I was feeling sleepy when I replied you yesterday. . . .I don't run away from threads you should know that by now. . . .

What you have said really doesn't make much sense. . . .Some specific OT laws were changed by Jesus, such as abolishing the Sabbath laws, laws like an eye for eye for and eye, but even the ones he put in place are NOT followed by christians to day, laws such as turn the other check, giving away your coat if a person ask for your shirt e.t.c. . . . .

Then the NT says that the OT are still valid. . . .

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them

Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

So all of that silly talk about Jesus doing away with the law make little sense in such a context. . . . .Many of the rules christians refuse to follow are found in the new testament as well . . . .Example. . . .

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,  bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.  Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.Luke 6:27-31

I don't know any christain that does this. . . .Christians never practice this verse,to them such verses do NOT exist in the bible. . . . .Every time I see people just self projecting themselves as God and giving out interpretations that are merely subjective emotional conviction on which verses to follow and which ones to ignore. . . . .Once it agree with their world view then its right and should be followed when it doesn't then its supposed to be discarded regardless of weather it is to be found in the old or new testaments. . . .

Two days ago, a lady was preaching to me on how satan fell from grace and so on. So I politely asked her show it to me in the bible. She did not know where to  find it in her bible. She promised to look for the chapter when she gets home and would come me back to let me know. Well, its been two days now and she has not called me .
The point is that she has no idea where the satan story came from but she has believed it all her life .And so have almost all christians. They have no idea where the satan, Lucifer and the fallen Angel story came from.
Any christian volunteers from the house wish to enlighten us?

LoveKing:

This should be on the front page

@mazaje
good work. i bet there are even more to talk on.

@frosbel
you dont sound too impressive at all. so what did mazaje do wrong? are you not reading the plain words?

Never mind frosbel. . . .The guy is high on some imaginary individual holy spirit that keeps on telling him that his own interpretation and opinion of the bible ALONE is true while all others are false. . . .The truth of the matter that frosbel doesnt want to address the fact that him and other christians like him simply cherry pick which verses to follow, which to condemn others with, and which to ignore based solely on their own personal emotional whims, and nothing more. . .

globexl:

Two days ago, a lady was preaching to me on how satan fell from grace and so on. So I politely asked her show it to me in the bible. She did not know where to  find it in her bible. She promised to look for the chapter when she gets home and would come me back to let me know. Well, its been two days now and she has not called me .
The point is that she has no idea where the satan story came from but she has believed it all her life .And so have almost all christians. They have no idea where the satan, Lucifer and the fallen Angel story came from.
Any christian volunteers from the house wish to enlighten us?

You won't believe many of the things that are conventional christian narratives no have basis in the bible. . . .one of such doctrines is the end of day doctrine about new world order and the global currency . . .Nothing like that is to be found in the bible, what you have are a few bible verses that are trotted out and salted heavily with current conspiracy theories, yet many christians believe it is to be found in the bible. . . .

mazaje:


What you have said really doesn't make much sense. . . .Some specific OT laws were changed by Jesus, such as abolishing the Sabbath laws, laws like an eye for eye for and eye, but even the ones he put in place are NOT followed by christians to day, laws such as turn the other check, giving away your coat if a person ask for your shirt e.t.c. . . . .

I think I would have to disagree with you here. Those laws were not so much "changed" by Jesus as they were "improved". In my opinion, it was simply a realization that the old law brought much hardship and encouraged vengeance and wickedness in mankind (an eye for an eye), whereas Jesus taught forgiveness and compassion. He wanted men to follow the spirit, rather than the letter of the law as was mostly done. I dont think that Jesus was "commanding" his followers.
As an example, the law prescribes a punishment for stealing, but it will not force you to prosecute. So also, if you were smitten on your cheek, while the law permitted you to strike back, it would not sanction you if you turned the other cheek (which Jesus apparently felt was the better option).

You did a good job quoting passages that show that the entire old testament is relevant (inspite of the fact that the church wants to keep the tithing and offering whilst throwing out the rest). Let me continue with that theme.

Matthew 5:17-19 KJV “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Luke 16:17 “And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Matthew 7:21-23 NKJV “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!”

1 John 5:2-3 “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his Commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his Commandments: and his Commandments are not grievous.”

Matthew 22:35-40 “Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two Commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

^^^^ The above verse is often thought to mean that Jesus had radically changed the the commandments, however, he was in reality quoting from the commandments

Deuteronomy 6:5 “And you shall love the LORD your God with all thine heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.”
Leviticus 19:18 “You shall not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.”

There are tons of passages, I think I'll stop here.

Another point is that its not just the ten commandments, its all the law and prophets.

Now coming down to the ten commandments, which particular one are we referring to? Consider the following verses from Exodus 32

15And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.

16And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

17And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

18And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

19And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

and for added effect, consider the following verses from the same chapter

26Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.

27And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

28And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

Those were the first commandments (the popular ones) written by the finger of God (before Maradona invented the hand). Next in Exodus 34 God calls Moses and ,

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

lets jump to Exodus 34 :10-28

10And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
11Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
12Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
13But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
14For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
15Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
16And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.
17Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
18The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
19All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.
20But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
21Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
22And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
23Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.
24For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
25Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
26The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
27And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
28And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Of course someone is bound to come up with some BS explanation for this discrepancy where God cannot remember what he first wrote down. Its only relevant in explaining the inherent confusion in this funny religion and their propensity to select what they like from it and discard the rest while simultaneously labeling others who do not subscribe to their pretensions and misplaced fervor as fools and similarly unflattering titles.

globexl:

Good question.
How many christians do you think actually read the bible? And how many of those that read it do u think actually understand it?
Selective amnesia is a part of human nature.
Since I was a teenager, I have been searching the bible to see any proof of this love of god that is preached so very often. I'm yet to see any act of love in the bible. all I see are hate, anger, tantrums, prejudice, wars, genocides and injustice.

God is love is the common mantra. . . .Yet I don't see any thing close to love when I read the bible, half of it is filled with unnecessary violence all commanded by the same loving good, including violence against babies. . .

jayriginal:

I think I would have to disagree with you here. Those laws were not so much "changed" by Jesus as they were "improved". In my opinion, it was simply a realization that the old law brought much hardship and encouraged vengeance and wickedness in mankind (an eye for an eye), whereas Jesus taught forgiveness and compassion. He wanted men to follow the spirit, rather than the letter of the law as was mostly done. I dont think that Jesus was "commanding" his followers.
As an example, the law prescribes a punishment for stealing, but it will not force you to prosecute. So also, if you were smitten on your cheek, while the law permitted you to strike back, it would not sanction you if you turned the other cheek (which Jesus apparently felt was the better option).

You did a good job quoting passages that show that the entire old testament is relevant (inspite of the fact that the church wants to keep the tithing and offering whilst throwing out the rest). Let me continue with that theme.

^^^^ The above verse is often thought to mean that Jesus had radically changed the the commandments, however, he was in reality quoting from the commandments
There are tons of passages, I think I'll stop here.

Another point is that its not just the ten commandments, its all the law and prophets.

Now coming down to the ten commandments, which particular one are we referring to? Consider the following verses from Exodus 32and for added effect, consider the following verses from the same chapterThose were the first commandments (the popular ones) written by the finger of God (before Maradona invented the hand). Next in Exodus 34 God calls Moses and ,
lets jump to Exodus 34 :10-28

Of course someone is bound to come up with some BS explanation for this discrepancy where God cannot remember what he first wrote down. Its only relevant in explaining the inherent confusion in this funny religion and their propensity to select what they like from it and discard the rest while simultaneously labeling others who do not subscribe to their pretensions and misplaced fervor as fools and similarly unflattering titles.

The bible is the writings of many people with a different idea and conception of who God is to them so when you read the bible you see many concept or God, you see a God that is sometimes against some of his laws in some places. . . .

Image123:

i'd love to be involved in this, hopefully mazaje would not run away as usual. You have an habit of disappearing it seems.
To start with, the Word of God is living, not set in stone but written on flesh. It follows that you'd encounter 'complexities' similar to encountering a human being. Another thing is poor understanding of the Word of God, caused by varying factors like sin, adam's nature, self-will, spiritual maturity, teaching etc.
Another thing is that old testament laws are broadly divided into moral laws and ceremonial laws. No law saves us by the way. We are expected to keep/obey moral laws though many christians do not know this unfortunately. On the other hand, we're not required to keep ceremonial laws, it's already been kept/fulfilled/obeyed/by-passed for us by Jesus Christ.ist.

Thats false my brother. That is the success of Paul.

mazaje:

Which are the ceremonial laws and which are the moral laws? Is tithing a ceremonial or moral law? What about the law with instruct parents to stone to death their disobedient children? Is it a ceremonial or moral law?. . . . .

Good question. Assuming Image123 is correct and there are two divisions, tithing would fall into a ceremonial law, definitely not a moral law. I dont know if other christians agree with his classification so for now, I'll reserve my comments on that.

There are two big reasons I dislike christianity (not christians) .
One is the utter arrogance and sense of superiority it gives them. Many look at you pitifully, look down on you, knowing fully well they are better than you and that their God is the only true one out of a million and one others.

The second one is that christianity is very exploitative financially. Its all about money these days.


You know, I think I'd be willing to bear the whole Christianity thing (even with the arrogance) if only they have the balls to throw away the offering/tithing part of it. They should throw it away as they have thrown away other uncivilized practices in the bible, such as blood sacrifices, killing those who dont believe in your religion, not shaving hair on the temples and beards etc.
Why does God need my money ? Or yours ? He can build a church himself, he can generate money for himself. Why is he always needing "seeds" and the people sowing are always people that need the money.
I have a friend who is a student. She was suspended from the choir cos she hasnt paid her tithes. In case you missed it, I said she was a student. Yet like a sheep, she doesnt see anything wrong in it and is looking for a way to pay her tithe and arrears.

mazaje:

The bible is the writings of many people with a different idea and conception of who God is to them so when you read the bible you see many concept or God, you see a God that is sometimes against some of his laws in some places. . . .

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

jayriginal:

This is totally false. Paul in order to make the message popular, bastardized the teachings of Jesus. Almost everything in Christianity today is based on the teachings of Paul, a fake egotistic wannabe apostle. Almost all sermons are preached from Pauls epistles with little or no attention paid to the simple teachings of Jesus.

(KJV Matt 23:23)Jesus said,


U dont have to say all christians are deleting/silenting some verses in the old testament, some laws are over shadowed in the old TM by the new NT when Jesus came.

Matt23:23 was for((KJV Matt 23:23)Jesus said,
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.)

but not for (U dont have to say all christians are deleting/silenting some verses in the old testament, some laws are over shadowed in the old TM by the new NT when Jesus came.) U are trying to misquote me, i dont change te scripture.

God is love is the common mantra. . . .Yet I don't see any thing close to love when I read the bible, half of it is filled with unnecessary violence all commanded by the same loving good, including violence against babies. . .

[b]You did not really go to search for love in the bible but voilence , U only read the old testament and ur eyes keep seeing the word VOILENCE; iF U MUST JUDGE THE BIBLE? TRY TO READ FROM A TO Z THEN TELL ME IF UR STATEMENT IS CORRECT.
The Bible is full of great verses and passages about love topics. God’s love for us is a perfect example ad starting place to study on love. There are also great verses about lov in relation to marriage, brotherly love or friendship, and loving your neighboor. and u are here saying a different thing, its   to know though.

[b]John 3:16  “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should notperish but have eternal life.

Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 8:37-39  No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 3:1  See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

Love One Another Bible Verses

Romans 13:8  Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.


Galatians 5:13  For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Ephesians 4:2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,

1 Peter 1:22  Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart[/b]

What Did Jesus Say About Love

Matthew 6:24-25  ”No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.  “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

John 14:21-24  Whoever has my commandments andkeeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”  Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered him,  “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.

Jesus came because he loves us so much, his LOVE was poured all over in the new testament for us to obtain love.[/b]

More LOVE verses for u,

Matthew 22:37–39
Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:4–8a
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails ,

Proverbs 15:17
A bowl of vegetables with someone you love is better than steak with someone you hate.

Proverbs 17:9
Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends.

Proverbs 17:17
A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

So do more research about love in the bible before u judge.

Deep teaching I came across on Youtube. Black people are waking up all over the diaspora



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNeQf8Ux5EU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9bWpR5SQh0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy5UsjIKZzg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKnC9KlNSEU

plappville:

Matt23:23 was for((KJV Matt 23:23)Jesus said,
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.)

but not for (U dont have to say all christians are deleting/silenting some verses in the old testament, some laws are over shadowed in the old TM by the new NT when Jesus came.) U are trying to misquote me, i dont change te scripture.

That was an error. I didnt notice the verse was there. I have removed it now as it had nothing to do with my reply. The rest of the post remains valid.

plappville:

Matt23:23 was for((KJV Matt 23:23)Jesus said,
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.)

but not for (U dont have to say all christians are deleting/silenting some verses in the old testament, some laws are over shadowed in the old TM by the new NT when Jesus came.) U are trying to misquote me, i dont change te scripture.



[b]You did not really go to search for love in the bible but voilence , U only read the old testament and your eyes keep seeing the word VOILENCE; iF U MUST JUDGE THE BIBLE? TRY TO READ FROM A TO Z THEN TELL ME IF your STATEMENT IS CORRECT.
The Bible is full of great verses and passages about love topics. God’s love for us is a perfect example ad starting place to study on love. There are also great verses about lov in relation to marriage, brotherly love or friendship, and loving your neighboor. and u are here saying a different thing, its   to know though.

[b]John 3:16  “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should notperish but have eternal life.

Romans 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 8:37-39  No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 3:1  See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.

Love One Another Bible Verses

Romans 13:8  Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.


Galatians 5:13  For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

Ephesians 4:2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,

1 Peter 1:22  Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart[/b]

What Did Jesus Say About Love

Matthew 6:24-25  ”No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.  “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?

John 14:21-24  Whoever has my commandments andkeeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”  Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” Jesus answered him,  “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.

Jesus came because he loves us so much, his LOVE was poured all over in the new testament for us to obtain love.[/b]

More LOVE verses for u,

Matthew 22:37–39
Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:4–8a
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails ,

Proverbs 15:17
A bowl of vegetables with someone you love is better than steak with someone you hate.

Proverbs 17:9
Love prospers when a fault is forgiven, but dwelling on it separates close friends.

Proverbs 17:17
A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

So do more research about love in the bible before u judge.

My brother, we are not talking about writing about love or making references to love. Anyone can write about love. What we are saying is that  the very acts of love are missing in the bible, especially the so-called great love that god has for his creation. For example , why would a loving god who created all, then choose one tribe over thousands of others that he supposedly created? He then commands this one tribe to hate and kill other tribes? He even kills his so-called chosen people when they marry members of other tribes. Where is the love?
In sunday school, I used to wonder whether it was another god   that created the Phillistines, the egyptians, the people of Jerico, ammonites,and the list goes on. And what could have been their crime?. It sooooo hilarious when you hear an African deluding himself that the god of Isreal loves him.
Anyone who reads the bible and does not ask themselves these common sense questions is, ?

globexl:

My brother, we are not talking about writing about love or making references to love. Anyone can write about love. What we are saying is that  the very acts of love are missing in the bible, especially the so-called great love that god has for his creation. For example , why would a loving god who created all, then choose one tribe over thousands of others that he supposedly created? He then commands this one tribe to hate and kill other tribes? He even kills his so-called chosen people when they marry members of other tribes. Where is the love?
In sunday school, I used to wonder whether it was another god   that created the Phillistines, the egyptians, the people of Jerico, ammonites,and the list goes on. And what could have been their crime?. It sooooo hilarious when you hear an African deluding himself that the god of Isreal loves him.
Anyone who reads the bible and does not ask themselves these common sense questions is, ?

You have just said it. . .The person said that God loves the world and gave his only child to the world, forgetting that the same God was busy telling his chosen people to hate others and kill them all for not believing in him. . .How does that make any sense?. . .There are a lot of verses about loving each other in the bible, but the same messages are also in religious books that predate the bible. . . . .Am talking of acts of love by the God of the bible, I don't see such acts of love when I read the bible, yet Christians say that their God is love. . . .

@mazaje and co,
If you're going to gain ANYTHING through your questionings, it'll help you to be calm and at least focused, instead of foaming out all your confusions and God-hate thoughts as they come. Any fool can condemn, criticize and complain, don't you think? Try to take things one step at a time, nobody's here to answer all your questions. We're all learning i hope? Because unbelievers cannot process much spiritual information, and yet they usually behave like they know it all.
Now, you should notice that i said the OT laws are BROADLY divided into two. It's a broad/general classification we're on, try to grasp that, there are other classes. Ceremonial laws involve rites, ceremony, ritual, usually involves temple/priest activities and are aimed as a sort of cleansing.
Moral laws involve basically what is good and what is bad.
Tithing is a form of giving/offering to God. Giving is moral.
Children are still expected to obey/honour their parents. This is a moral law. The punishment for disobedience is a judicial law. You don't just pick stones at your fancy and begin to stone people, it involved a kind of court. Today, we have our courts and we're subject to their rulings as the Bible commands. Moreso, Jesus came and told us not to pre-occupy ourselves with judging others, remember? Instead, we now live with power provided by the new covenant for grace, forgiveness, truth and love.

wow! What an interesting line of Enquiry.

Please o, can anyone point to one loving Act that God has done so that we can silence these atheists?

And before we do so, can we perhaps define what a loving act is? Would an act of mercy constitute a loving act? Would sending manna from heaven constitute a loving act? ie would feeding people be a loving act? what about clothing people? Would covering Adam's unclothedness constitute a loving act?

What about Mercy? Is that a loving Act?

What about forgiveness?

Image123:

@mazaje and co,
If you're going to gain ANYTHING through your questionings, it'll help you to be calm and at least focused, instead of foaming out all your confusions and God-hate thoughts as they come. Any fool can condemn, criticize and complain, don't you think? Try to take things one step at a time, nobody's here to answer all your questions. We're all learning i hope? Because unbelievers cannot process much spiritual information, and yet they usually behave like they know it all.
Now, you should notice that i said the OT laws are BROADLY divided into two. It's a broad/general classification we're on, try to grasp that, there are other classes. Ceremonial laws involve rites, ceremony, ritual, usually involves temple/priest activities and are aimed as a sort of cleansing.
Moral laws involve basically what is good and what is bad.
Tithing is a form of giving/offering to God. Giving is moral.
Children are still expected to obey/honour their parents. This is a moral law. The punishment for disobedience is a judicial law. You don't just pick stones at your fancy and begin to stone people, it involved a kind of court. Today, we have our courts and we're subject to their rulings as the Bible commands. Moreso, Jesus came and told us not to pre-occupy ourselves with judging others, remember? Instead, we now live with power provided by the new covenant for grace, forgiveness, truth and love.

This is interesting, especially the distinction between ceremonial and moral. Ceremonial rites for cleansing: Are Moral laws also involved in cleansing too? If we are to follow the tradition of the prophets and even the teachings of Christ himself it would appear that God as little interest in the ceremonial and his main interest is in our moral conduct and this is in regard of everything including cleansing. Am I right?

On scripture verses that you quoted, you mostly do not understand what's been said or you're limited in knowledge in thinking that christians do not obey God. I'd handle the scriptures one by one later as you present your queries.

OP good thread!

christians do not only cherry-pick what to follow and what not to from the old testament.there even verses in the NT itself that have laws christians do not observe in their worship.

Image123:

@mazaje and co,
If you're going to gain ANYTHING through your questionings, it'll help you to be calm and at least focused, instead of foaming out all your confusions and God-hate thoughts as they come. Any fool can condemn, criticize and complain, don't you think? Try to take things one step at a time, nobody's here to answer all your questions. We're all learning i hope? Because unbelievers cannot process much spiritual information, and yet they usually behave like they know it all.

My questions are quite straight forward I believe. . . .

Now, you should notice that i said the OT laws are BROADLY divided into two. It's a broad/general classification we're on, try to grasp that, there are other classes. Ceremonial laws involve rites, ceremony, ritual, usually involves temple/priest activities and are aimed as a sort of cleansing.
Moral laws involve basically what is good and what is bad.

The problem is that christians even cherry pick the moral laws they chose to follow and discard some of them. . . .

Tithing is a form of giving/offering to God. Giving is moral.
Children are still expected to obey/honour their parents. This is a moral law. The punishment for disobedience is a judicial law. You don't just pick stones at your fancy and begin to stone people, it involved a kind of court.

The bible simply says that children who disobey their parents are to be stoned to death. . . .Do you agree with that?. . . . .

Today, we have our courts and we're subject to their rulings as the Bible commands

Many courts in the western world approve homosexuality do you agree with that?. . . .

Moreso, Jesus came and told us not to pre-occupy ourselves with judging others, remember? Instead, we now live with power provided by the new covenant for grace, forgiveness, truth and love

But the same Jesus was constantly condemning people that fail to accept his teachings no?. . . When I look around I don't see christians practicing what you are saying at all. . . .