@AIO
Moral laws are not cleansing. Only the blood of Jesus and the Word of God cleanse us today. God/Jesus is not disinterested in the ceremonial. Instead He has fulfilled the ceremonial as our High Priest.

@mazaje
Can you please provide the passage on the children who disobey their parents? Note though that the scriptures is taken as one whole i.e with consideration to every scripture. It's not an exact science.
On your homosexuality question, i agree and all christians agree on what the court decides on homosexuals as their judgement. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong is another issue. But their judgement is their business, not mine. I judge no man.

Image123:

@AIO

This man, it seems as if you do not have any respect for rank. Who told you my name was AIO, didn't you see the full name? Better check and correct yourself before I start taking disciplinary actions. I'll be back to deal with the rest of what you wrote.

@ globexl

Two days ago, a lady was preaching to me on how satan fell from grace and so on. So I politely asked her show it to me in the bible. She did not know where to find it in her bible. She promised to look for the chapter when she gets home and would come me back to let me know. Well, its been two days now and she has not called me .
The point is that she has no idea where the satan story came from but she has believed it all her life .And so have almost all christians. They have no idea where the satan, Lucifer and the fallen Angel story came from.
Any christian volunteers from the house wish to enlighten us?

Isaiah 14: from verse 12
Ezekiel 28: verse 12 downwards

Pastor AIO:

This man, it seems as if you do not have any respect for rank. Who told you my name was AIO, didn't you see the full name? Better check and correct yourself before I start taking disciplinary actions. I'll be back to deal with the rest of what you wrote.

You're been insensitive to my plight. i'm titlephobic na.

davidylan:

@ globexl

Isaiah 14: from verse 12
Ezekiel 28: verse 12 downwards

Thank you Davidlan. Good to see you again.

I hv just read the references.
Isaiah 14, from veres 12 sounds like poetry reading or lamentation from the prophet isaiah. It is clearly not a tale and I doubt if it was intended to be seen as such by the writer himself. "Oh Lucifer son of the morning"? It does not state who lucifer was. Is this small passage the basis upon which the Lucifer, satan and devil stories come from?

Ezekeil 28:12 down Starts with Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus and say onto him,
there is no reference to Lucicer or satan in the whole passage.

Image123:

@mazaje and co,
Now, you should notice that i said the OT laws are BROADLY divided into two. It's a broad/general classification we're on, try to grasp that, there are other classes. Ceremonial laws involve rites, ceremony, ritual, usually involves temple/priest activities and are aimed as a sort of cleansing.
Moral laws involve basically what is good and what is bad.
Tithing is a form of giving/offering to God. Giving is moral.

I cant believe this man just implied that it is moral to give to God.

Children are still expected to obey/honour their parents.
Posted by: Image123
@mazaje
Can you please provide the passage on the children who disobey their parents?  

Lets see
Exodus 21:15, Exodus 21:17, Leveticus 20:9, Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Instead, we now live with power provided by the new covenant for grace, forgiveness, truth and love.

Again with Pauls fiction. There is no such thing as a new covenant. This is what allows you to cherry pick and what not. I can see why you insist on it.

Pastor AIO:

wow! What an interesting line of Enquiry.

Please o, can anyone point to one loving Act that God has done so that we can silence these atheists?

And before we do so, can we perhaps define what a loving act is? Would an act of mercy constitute a loving act? Would sending manna from heaven constitute a loving act? ie would feeding people be a loving act? what about clothing people? Would covering Adam's unclothedness constitute a loving act?

What about Mercy? Is that a loving Act?

What about forgiveness?

You make me laugh. If he created adam naked , how would covering adam's unclothedness be an act of love?Omg. I can't stop laughing.
As for manna. thats a fairy tale. It is likely that being in a new place with new vegetation, they woke up one morning and found some unfamilair fruits that tasted sweet on the ground and were asking what is it(MA NA?). manna means what is it? Since then how many manna has fallen to feed the world's starving children?. the starving children of Somalia NEED MANNA NOW. where is this loving god?
And by the way, after supposedly giving manna to the isrealites, he killed 40,000 of them from the time they left egypt till the time they reached their so-called promised land. Its all in the bible. Where is the love?
Clothing peopl? i buy my own clothes, I dont know about you.
Mercy? what mercy? sending people to hell for eternity for not believing in him or his many minions is definitely not an act of love. Its infact, silly.

Image123:

@mazaje
Can you please provide the passage on the children who disobey their parents? Note though that the scriptures is taken as one whole i.e with consideration to every scripture. It's not an exact science.

Sorry am lost cos I really don't understand what you are saying here, but he is the passage. . .

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, 19then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, 20and they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard. Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Is this a moral or ceremonial law?. . . .It seems straight forward to me. . .

On your homosexuality question, i agree and all christians agree on what the court decides on homosexuals as their judgement. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong is another issue. But their judgement is their business, not mine. I judge no man.

Ok fair enough since you say you judge no man. . . .I was talking about others that use the bible as a basis for condemning homosexuals while leaving out other parts from the same bible. . . .

Image123:

You're been insensitive to my plight. i'm titlephobic na.

I will allow you.

globexl:

You make me laugh. If he created adam Unclad , how would covering adam's unclothedness be an act of love?Omg. I can't stop laughing.
As for manna. thats a fairy tale. It is likely that being in a new place with new vegetation, they woke up one morning and found some unfamilair fruits that tasted sweet on the ground and were asking what is it(MA NA?). manna means what is it? Since then how many manna has fallen to feed the world's starving children?. the starving children of Somalia NEED MANNA NOW. where is this loving god?
And by the way, after supposedly giving manna to the isrealites, he killed 40,000 of them from the time they left egypt till the time they reached their so-called promised land. Its all in the bible. Where is the love?
Clothing peopl? i buy my own clothes, I dont know about you.
Mercy? what mercy? sending people to hell for eternity for not believing in him or his many minions is definitely not an act of love. Its infact, silly.  

I'm always happy to be of some value, even comedic value. Glad I made you laugh. I thought that you took the entire bible as a fairy tale, not just some parts like manna. I was only trying to contribute, if not answer, your query about if God performed any acts of love in the bible. I didn't know that what you wanted were only non-fairy-tale acts of love that are then repeated over and over again even in somalia. Please be clear when you ask questions so that we can respond appropriately. I'm not even sure Somalia is in the bible so you've got me there. I can't find anywhere in the bible where God performed acts of love for Somalians. Are you happy now?

I think we still need to define what exact an act of love is. Apparently feeding people and clothing them is not an act of love according to globexl. What exactly is an Act of Love? Somebody help me please.

God is love is the common mantra. . . .Yet I don't see any thing close to love when I read the bible, half of it is filled with unnecessary violence all commanded by the same loving good, including violence against babies. . .

[b]globexl, [/b]My brother, we are not talking about writing about love or making references to love. Anyone can write about love. What we are saying is that  the very acts of love are missing in the bible, especially the so-called great love that god has for his creation. For example , why would a loving god who created all, then choose one tribe over thousands of others that he supposedly created? He then commands this one tribe to hate and kill other tribes? He even kills his so-called chosen people when they marry members of other tribes. Where is the love?
In sunday school, I used to wonder whether it was another god   that created the Phillistines, the egyptians, the people of Jerico, ammonites,and the list goes on. And what could have been their crime?. It sooooo hilarious when you hear an African deluding himself that the god of Isreal loves him.
Anyone who reads the bible and does not ask themselves these common sense questions is, ?

Why do u think the above bold was not talking about the verses concerning LOVE i qouted??
Anyone who can write love in the way and manner u are thinking can as well write VOILENCE

Image123:

@AIO
Moral laws are not cleansing. Only the blood of Jesus and the Word of God cleanse us today. God/Jesus is not disinterested in the ceremonial. Instead He has fulfilled the ceremonial as our High Priest.

Now, I need to know what cleansing means.  Do you mean to have your sins washed away?  Is there a difference between forgiveness of sins and washing sins away?  

2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. 3And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. 4And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? 5For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? 6But that ye may know that[b] the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins[/b], (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7And

Matt 9

I do not see any ceremonial in the forgiving of this man's sins.  Or wasn't the man cleansed at this point?

Pastor AIO:

Now, I need to know what cleansing means.  Do you mean to have your sins washed away?  Is there a difference between forgiveness of sins and washing sins away?  
Matt 9

I do not see any ceremonial in the forgiving of this man's sins.  Or wasn't the man cleansed at this point?

4giveness does not make one a Christian without cleansing of his\her sin by the blood of Jesus.
This is why John the Baptist came with a message of repentance and remission:

“And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; for you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, to give knowledge of salvation to His people by the remission of their sins” (Luke 1:76,77).

Salvation knowledge is based on the cleansing of sins, salvation is based on repentance & 4giveness, whic does't produce the fruits 2 Gods Kingdom.
Without the removal of the source of sin, (which is cleansing) the sin problem is never dealt with and you are still left in a statue of being dead in trespasses and sin.

God help us to understand ur words!!!

Just how i can differentiate it to my understanding.

mazaje:

Sorry am lost cos I really don't understand what you are saying here, but he is the passage. . .

Is this a moral or ceremonial law?. . . .It seems straight forward to me. . .


Ok fair enough since you say you judge no man. . . .I was talking about others that use the bible as a basis for condemning homosexuals while leaving out other parts from the same bible. . . .

O, thanks for supplying the passages jayriginal and mazaje.
What i mean is that one's shouldn't for instance take a passage where Jesus sends His disciples to preach only to Israelites in isolation, neglecting that He sent them to the whole world in another passage. Scriptures have to be compared with scriptures.
The passages you quoted confirm that the punishment was meted out by a kind of court, it involves judges and elders. Now this is a judgement/punishment, not the kind of law for everyone like thou shalt not kill or steal.
On homosexuality, i've said it i'm not the judge. God is ultimate judge, and make no mistake, He will punish homosexuals in hell fire. But i don't have a duty to stone them. i'll stick with the courts and mind more important business.

@AIO
Thanks for allowing me. i'm referring to the ot cleansing rituals of being unclean and clean. Purifying after x days using this animal and that bird.

mazaje o.!

^^

Baba mi, how far?. . . .

Image123:

O, thanks for supplying the passages jayriginal and mazaje.
What i mean is that one's shouldn't for instance take a passage where Jesus sends His disciples to preach only to Israelites in isolation, neglecting that He sent them to the whole world in another passage. Scriptures have to be compared with scriptures.

Sure scripture has to be compared with scripture but remember that doing that has caused alot of disharmony because people always pick and chose what they want and what agrees with their opinions all of the time. . . .

The passages you quoted confirm that the punishment was meted out by a kind of court, it involves judges and elders. Now this is a judgement/punishment, not the kind of law for everyone like thou shalt not kill or steal.

The judgement is what am talking about. . . .Thou shall not suffer a witch to live is also a judgement that is in the bible and many christians use it as a justification for killing people they label as witches, no?. . . .The same people refuse to obey passages that tell them to stone to death their disobedient children. . .When if you ask them they come up with various excuses. . . . .

On homosexuality, i've said it i'm not the judge. God is ultimate judge, and make no mistake, He will punish homosexuals in hell fire. But i don't have a duty to stone them. i'll stick with the courts and mind more important business.

That also means that your God will also kill punish women that speak in churches or teach in churches because the bible prohibits them from doing that, yet many christians do not have a problem with it. . . . .

mazaje:

^^

Baba mi, how far?. . . .

i no be your Baba o, soon now you'll be calling me 'Papa' like one of them church folks ehn.
The witch thing is also a judgement. No one's expected to put judgement into his own hands as a Christian. You leave it to God, and to the courts. Yes, God's against witches, sin, and all disobedience to Him/His Word. He's not changed. But in the NT, we strive for salvation of lives, mercy, pardon, conversion, not judgement. Jesus came to be judged for ALL sins. He's taken the place of the witch, homo, thief, etc. That's the good news/gospel. But each sinner needs to accept His sacrifice and repent. You either take Jesus' death/punishment for you, or take it yourself come judgement day. One would have thought the better choice was obvious.
On women preaching, i'm not the final judge, God is. Is not my position to say this person is condemned or not. What i can do is advice that we all follow what we see in God's Word and ask for God's grace to live in an acceptable and pleasing way to Him.

mazaje:

^^

Baba mi, how far?. . . .

i no be your Baba o, soon now you'll be calling me 'Papa' like one of them church folks ehn.
The witch thing is also a judgement. No one's expected to put judgement into his own hands as a Christian. You leave it to God, and to the courts. Yes, God's against witches, sin, and all disobedience to Him/His Word. He's not changed. But in the NT, we strive for salvation of lives, mercy, pardon, conversion, not judgement. Jesus came to be judged for ALL sins. He's taken the place of the witch, homo, thief, etc. That's the good news/gospel. But each sinner needs to accept His sacrifice and repent. You either take Jesus' death/punishment for you, or take it yourself come judgement day. One would have thought the better choice was obvious.
On women preaching, i'm not the final judge, God is. Is not my position to say this person is condemned or not. What i can do is advice that we all follow what we see in God's Word and ask for God's grace to live in an acceptable and pleasing way to Him.

Image123:

On homosexuality, i've said it i'm not the judge. God is ultimate judge, and make no mistake, He will punish homosexuals in hell fire. But i don't have a duty to stone them. i'll stick with the courts and mind more important business.

Image123:

On women preaching, i'm not the final judge, God is. Is not my position to say this person is condemned or not. What i can do is advice that we all follow what we see in God's Word and ask for God's grace to live in an acceptable and pleasing way to Him.

It seems you're picking and choosing because you condemned homosexu@ls to hell (because of your bigotry against them) and refuse to pronounce the same fate on women (because you disagree with the bible)

Nietzche said it best, "they preach love but condemn to hell everything that stands in their way"

^^

Very well said Martian. . . . .He was very quick to condemn homosexuals to hell because the bible prohibits homosexuality, but he he is not quick to condemn women that teach or speak in churches because he disagrees with the teaching of the bible that also prohibits women from teaching or speaking in the church . . . He just displayed the cherry picking that this topic is really talking about. . . . .The bible is clear it says those that disbelieve are condemned already. . . . .Women that disbelieve in the teaching that they are supposed to shut up and be quite in the churches and not preach are disbelievers and are therefore condemned already, no?. . . .

Image123:

i no be your Baba o, soon now you'll be calling me 'Papa' like one of them church folks ehn.
The witch thing is also a judgement. No one's expected to put judgement into his own hands as a Christian. You leave it to God, and to the courts. Yes, God's against witches, sin, and all disobedience to Him/His Word. He's not changed. But in the NT, we strive for salvation of lives, mercy, pardon, conversion, not judgement. Jesus came to be judged for ALL sins. He's taken the place of the witch, homo, thief, etc. That's the good news/gospel. But each sinner needs to accept His sacrifice and repent. You either take Jesus' death/punishment for you, or take it yourself come judgement day. One would have thought the better choice was obvious.
On women preaching, i'm not the final judge, God is. Is not my position to say this person is condemned or not. What i can do is advice that we all follow what we see in God's Word and ask for God's grace to live in an acceptable and pleasing way to Him.

What do you mean that God has not changed when we have a clear shift as YOU have pointed out yourself. . . .Disobedient kids, adulterers and witches for example were all to be stoned to death by the people, in the NT its all about being a pacifist. . . .As for not being the judge with regards to women preaching, well the bible is very clear about that women are NOT to preach in churches. . . Your opinion to that is immaterial because the bible is very clear about that. . . . .

Very well said Martian. . . . .

It's better you leave martian alone and listen to people who have an idea of what you seek to know as regards the OP.

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

It seems you're picking and choosing because you condemned homosexu@ls to hell (because of your bigotry against them) and refuse to pronounce the same fate on women (because you disagree with the bible)

He was very quick to condemn homosexuals to hell because the bible prohibits homosexuality, but he he is not quick to condemn women that teach or speak in churches because he disagrees with the teaching of the bible that also prohibits women from teaching or speaking in the church . . . He just displayed the cherry picking that this topic is really talking about. . . . .The bible is clear it says those that disbelieve are condemned already. . . . .Women that disbelieve in the teaching that they are supposed to shut up and be quite in the churches and not preach are disbelievers and are therefore condemned already, no?. . . .

i don't know if you want to learn or if you're more interested in scoring silly cheap points(maybe you could use the points to buy something @christmas). Talk about having a beam in the eye and screaming the mote off another's. You've cherry picked my words, and you're not going to gain anything that way. If you'd continue that way, i'd explain this, then you'd pick some seeming point/flaw, then i'd explain that and you'd search out another, and on and on. i'm yet to condemn anyone on this thread. i've refrained from judging anyone (you've asked about witches, homosexuals, disobedient children, now women). Here was what was said,
On your homosexuality question, i agree and all christians agree on what the court decides on homosexuals as their judgement. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong is another issue. But their judgement is their business, not mine. I judge no man.
To this you replied by saying

Ok fair enough since you say you judge no man. . . .I was talking about others that use the bible as a basis for condemning homosexuals while leaving out other parts from the same bible. . . .

And here was my reply
On homosexuality, i've said it i'm not the judge. God is ultimate judge, and make no mistake, He will punish homosexuals in hell fire. But i don't have a duty to stone them. i'll stick with the courts and mind more important business.
If you decide to pick just this last one and make whatever conclusions on it, are you not the chief cherry picker? The issue was on humans judging people(homos, witches, sinners), in this instance by putting to death ithink. i've shown you "Judge not". And have explained to you that although we(humans/christians) are not judging, God is the ultimate Judge. God will punish all this people. There's a Judgement day coming, i believe that's not news to you? On Judgement day, He/God(not i) will punish homosexuals in hell fire. This is simple basic scripture knowledge. It's not personal view/bigotry.
Romans 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Lev 18:22  Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 18:23  Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Lev 18:24  Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
Lev 18:25  And the land is defiled: therefore[b] I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitant[/b]s.
1Corinth 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Corinth 6:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
The judgement of homosexuality and such like is plainly revealed in the Bible as can be seen from the above. On women preaching, i already said it and you've quoted it. Just like i rightly said about homosexuals, I AM NOT THE FINAL JUDGE. I AM NOT. Their judgement is not my business. Is that not clear enough for you to understand? You said

That also means that your God will also kill punish women that speak in churches or teach in churches because the bible prohibits them from doing that, yet many christians do not have a problem with it.

You're talking of judgement/punishment. i don't know about their punishment and i'm not too interested. i'm not a woman btw. Whether what they do is right or wrong is another issue(just like i said on homosexuality). You're mixing the law with the punishment. In the women preaching, there are different schools of thought and interpretation of the passage. Unlike homosexuality that is plain enough at least for the majority to see. And have quoted their ultimate judgement if they don't repent. i can't quote or find a place that says this and that would happen to women that preach in church. i'm not omniscient, and i sincerely do not know what would happen to them. i'm not the Judge. If they're going to be punished, what kind of punishment, i don't know. Punishment and judgement varies, it's not equal. It'll be more tolerable for Sodom than for some. Some people will get to God's kingdom and have their works burnt. All these is in the Bible. i'll only tell you what's revealed in the Bible, i'm not the guy with the special list of names.

What do you mean that God has not changed when we have a clear shift as YOU have pointed out yourself. . . .Disobedient kids, adulterers and witches for example were all to be stoned to death by the people, in the NT its all about being a pacifist. . . .As for not being the judge with regards to women preaching, well the bible is very clear about that women  are NOT to preach in churches. . . Your opinion to that is immaterial because the bible is very clear about that. . . . .

You said"your God will also kill punish women that speak in churches". Well i do not see the Bible that says that. don't know if you have. A law/command/advice is different from the repercussion/punishment/judgement for disregarding/disobeying that law/command/advice. Try to understand that.
What i mean that God has not changed is that God has not changed. He Himself said it and we who know Him/understand Him better know that He has not changed.

Malachi 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

i told you earlier, the Bible is not an exact science, neither are humans, relationships, living things. It takes maturity and often revelation to understand the word of God. The way i can help you is like say giving analogies. For example, you might have a friend, maybe you've not seen him since 5years 10 years. Now you guys meet. And you're like 'this guy has not changed'. It's true he has not changed in that maybe he still talks the same way, or reasons the same way, or in a bad sense, maybe he still has an habit of lying, carelessness, womanizing. He's not changed but it's possible he has a new address, class, weight, marital status, car etc.
In a similar sense, God has not changed. He still hates sin. He is still powerful, God, merciful, loving, righteous, holy, and whatever quality we call Him from Genesis. God's against witches, sin, and all disobedience to Him/His Word. He's not changed. We're not saying that He's not changed sitting position, or has not uttered a word, or batted an eyelid as that also means God has not changed. It's a flawed knowledge and context that disturbs many people. Some people have flawed knowledge of simple things like God's onmipresence. Omnipresence basically means He is present everywhere. However, it'll be silly(to be mild) to say He's in the bottle, in the phone, in your pocket, in the fridge, in the keyhole, in my shoe. It'll be most silly to argue with me and say "But He's omnipresent, He's in the cup,no?"  OR to pick a scripture like
Matthew 18:19  Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
And two people agree and say the world would end today, God said we should agree. Or even seemingly good stuff like we agree there will be no more sickness in africa, or no more road accident in nigeria. These agreements/understanding have simply cherry picked the Bible, taking that passage as an exact science without looking at the whole counsel of God. Do you read of two brothers and a mother who came to Jesus and asked for reserve seats in Heaven? Was it done for them of His Father in heaven?
Matthew 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.
1Corinth 14:20  Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

The scriptures is not mathematical equations. 1+1 is not always equal to 2. Sometimes, it's 1 in scriptures. Another time someone puts in one and gets 30fold, some 60 some 100. The Bible says "Pray without ceasing1Thess5v17". The Bible also says "Rejoice in the Lord alwaysPhilippians 4v4". i guess you also know many christians who clearly disobey these plain scriptures seeing the Bible is very clear about this(you seem to 'know' many christians btw). It'll be wrong to class them all together and say my opinion is immaterial, those that disbelieve are condemned, those that disobey are punished. Blimey, you might even have some scriptures to boot your talk. Well, you need revelation to understand scriptures, and then maturity, comparing scripture with scripture.

mazaje o!

Image123:

It's better you leave martian alone and listen to people who have an idea of what you seek to know as regards the OP.

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

i don't know if you want to learn or if you're more interested in scoring silly cheap points(maybe you could use the points to buy something @christmas). Talk about having a beam in the eye and screaming the mote off another's. You've cherry picked my words, and you're not going to gain anything that way. If you'd continue that way, i'd explain this, then you'd pick some seeming point/flaw, then i'd explain that and you'd search out another, and on and on. i'm yet to condemn anyone on this thread. i've refrained from judging anyone (you've asked about witches, homosexuals, disobedient children, now women). Here was what was said,
On your homosexuality question, i agree and all christians agree on what the court decides on homosexuals as their judgement. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong is another issue. But their judgement is their business, not mine. I judge no man.
To this you replied by sayingAnd here was my reply
On homosexuality, i've said it i'm not the judge. God is ultimate judge, and make no mistake, He will punish homosexuals in hell fire. But i don't have a duty to stone them. i'll stick with the courts and mind more important business.
If you decide to pick just this last one and make whatever conclusions on it, are you not the chief cherry picker? The issue was on humans judging people(homos, witches, sinners), in this instance by putting to death ithink. i've shown you "Judge not". And have explained to you that although we(humans/christians) are not judging, God is the ultimate Judge. God will punish all this people. There's a Judgement day coming, i believe that's not news to you? On Judgement day, He/God(not i) will punish homosexuals in hell fire. This is simple basic scripture knowledge. It's not personal view/bigotry.
Romans 1:27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Lev 18:22  Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 18:23  Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Lev 18:24  Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
Lev 18:25  And the land is defiled: therefore[b] I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitant[/b]s.
1Corinth 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Corinth 6:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
The judgement of homosexuality and such like is plainly revealed in the Bible as can be seen from the above. On women preaching, i already said it and you've quoted it. Just like i rightly said about homosexuals, I AM NOT THE FINAL JUDGE. I AM NOT. Their judgement is not my business. Is that not clear enough for you to understand? You saidYou're talking of judgement/punishment. i don't know about their punishment and i'm not too interested. i'm not a woman btw. Whether what they do is right or wrong is another issue(just like i said on homosexuality). You're mixing the law with the punishment. In the women preaching, there are different schools of thought and interpretation of the passage. Unlike homosexuality that is plain enough at least for the majority to see. And have quoted their ultimate judgement if they don't repent. i can't quote or find a place that says this and that would happen to women that preach in church. i'm not omniscient, and i sincerely do not know what would happen to them. i'm not the Judge. If they're going to be punished, what kind of punishment, i don't know. Punishment and judgement varies, it's not equal. It'll be more tolerable for Sodom than for some. Some people will get to God's kingdom and have their works burnt. All these is in the Bible. i'll only tell you what's revealed in the Bible, i'm not the guy with the special list of names.

The OP is very simple its about Christians picking and choosing what they believe and using it to castigate others, no?. . .The same thing is what you are doing here, I will show it to you soon. . .

Image123:

You said"your God will also kill punish women that speak in churches". Well i do not see the Bible that says that. don't know if you have. A law/command/advice is different from the repercussion/punishment/judgement for disregarding/disobeying that law/command/advice. Try to understand that.
What i mean that God has not changed is that God has not changed. He Himself said it and we who know Him/understand Him better know that He has not changed.

NOT true, a simple reading of the OT and the NT will show you that the God the bible talks about has changed a great deal from getting angry and killing people over simple things like picking sticks on the sabbath or setting very strict dietary laws and clothing laws to allowing people to eat anything and forgetting about the sabbath. . . .

Malachi 3:6  For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

A simple reading of the bible shows that this statement is false. . . . .

i told you earlier, the Bible is not an exact science, neither are humans, relationships, living things. It takes maturity and often revelation to understand the word of God. The way i can help you is like say giving analogies. For example, you might have a friend, maybe you've not seen him since 5years 10 years. Now you guys meet. And you're like 'this guy has not changed'. It's true he has not changed in that maybe he still talks the same way, or reasons the same way, or in a bad sense, maybe he still has an habit of lying, carelessness, womanizing. He's not changed but it's possible he has a new address, class, weight, marital status, car etc.

Very poor analogy and God that very easily kills people and accepts human and animal sacrifice which is completely different from a God that doesn't no? Read the bible. . . .I am talking about the behavior of the God of the bible as recorded in the old and new testaments, that God has changed a great deal. . . .

In a similar sense, God has not changed. He still hates sin. He is still powerful, God, merciful, loving, righteous, holy, and whatever quality we call Him from Genesis. God's against witches, sin, and all disobedience to Him/His Word. He's not changed.

You see you are still picing and choosing what quailities you want to ascribe unto your God from the bible, you are choosing only the good attributes you want to chose, what about the evil ones, the bible clearly says that God is evil and does evil in some parts, no?. . . .

Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people (KJV)

Jer 42:9 And said unto them, Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, unto whom ye sent me to present your supplication before him;

Jer 42:10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull [you] down, and I will plant you, and not pluck [you] up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you. (KJV)

Here we have God clearly saying that he did evil and he repented of his evil deeds. . . .I don't see christians quoting any of these verses. . . .Only an entity that has evil as one of its attributes can display evil, no?

You said your God is loving right?. . . .

Leviticus 26:21-22
" 'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

So, do you believe your God is loving? If so, why does he threaten to have children eaten by wild animals in this verse? Will you consider any being that threatens to have children eaten by wild animals a loving being?. . .

We're not saying that He's not changed sitting position, or has not uttered a word, or batted an eyelid as that also means God has not changed. It's a flawed knowledge and context that disturbs many people. Some people have flawed knowledge of simple things like God's onmipresence. Omnipresence basically means He is present everywhere. However, it'll be silly(to be mild) to say He's in the bottle, in the phone, in your pocket, in the fridge, in the keyhole, in my shoe. It'll be most silly to argue with me and say "But He's omnipresent, He's in the cup,no?"  OR to pick a scripture like
Matthew 18:19  Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
And two people agree and say the world would end today, God said we should agree. Or even seemingly good stuff like we agree there will be no more sickness in africa, or no more road accident in nigeria. These agreements/understanding have simply cherry picked the Bible, taking that passage as an exact science without looking at the whole counsel of God. Do you read of two brothers and a mother who came to Jesus and asked for reserve seats in Heaven? Was it done for them of His Father in heaven?
Matthew 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.
1Corinth 14:20  Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

My friend you are just giving me your opinion as if that is what the bible says. . . .The bible talks about two people coming together and asking for things through prayers and promising that their request will be granted and here you are trying to spin it to mean something else. . .If that is what the bible was trying to say it would have been written inside the bible, no? I thought you guys claim the bible is the word of God, or do you not believe in what it says again?. . . .The bible is clear when two people come together and ask with faith in prayers their request will be granted if it meant to say something else it would have been written as part of the verse, I know why you chose to spin it to mean something else. . . .

The scriptures is not mathematical equations. 1+1 is not always equal to 2. Sometimes, it's 1 in scriptures. Another time someone puts in one and gets 30fold, some 60 some 100. The Bible says "Pray without ceasing1Thess5v17". The Bible also says "Rejoice in the Lord alwaysPhilippians 4v4". i guess you also know many christians who clearly disobey these plain scriptures seeing the Bible is very clear about this(you seem to 'know' many christians btw). It'll be wrong to class them all together and say my opinion is immaterial, those that disbelieve are condemned, those that disobey are punished. Blimey, you might even have some scriptures to boot your talk. Well, you need revelation to understand scriptures, and then maturity, comparing scripture with scripture.

Those that disobey are also sinner no? And the bible says that the wages of sin is death, no?. . . .What you are saying is that the bible can be taken to mean anything with also proves my point. . . .

@Image123:
You religious people are just too hilarious. you always shout hat god created me and created everyone in his own image. God created white people, black people, indians, chinese, tall people,pigmies, left handed people, right handed people, ugly people as well as attractive people, right
Now, did god not create homosexual people as well? Or was it his evil brother, Satan,that created homosexuals while god was resting on the seventh day? LOL.
By christian logic, god created everyone with their different talents of traits. If god created homosexuals, then why would that same god punish homosexuals for being exactly whatgod created them? Is something wrong with god? Is god schitszophrenic or is it ur understanding of god that is schitszophrenic?

And by the way is there a hierachy of sin? That is , is one form of sin more sinful than another form of sin? for example, assuming that god forbids homosexuality, as well as forbiding fornicaton, lying and envy. My question is:Would a homosexual recieve more eternal punishment than a heterosexual fornicator? or a lier? or an envious person?

Pls answer:

@image123:
You just admitted that the bible is not an exact science. That sounds to me like an indictment of author(the infallible word of GOD?). why would the words of an infallible god be inconsistent and confusing? And why are the words of an infallible omipotent god be sujected to constant revisions by churchmen(mortals). You can only revises or edit something to improve it or make it better . How do chruchmen make better what is the infallible word of god?

@ Image123.

You know my views on religion, the holy books and gods being products of mythology but I'll assume the bible is factual in this instance.

The questions I have are

1) how many children were killed during noah's flood?
2) Since kids can't do anything without their parents, was god justified in drowning helpless children just to prove a point?

@mazaje. God cannot contradict himself. The scripture can not be broken. We will explain,argue, discuss,oppose,disagree or agree on the bible from now till eternity. You can't understand everything. Is there anyone in this world,who knows virtually everything on the face of the earth?NO! Even paul the apostle said in 1 corithians 13:9" for we know in part,and we prophesy in part". However, i would like to recommend DAKE ANNOTATED REFERENCE BIBLE to give a more explicit information about your questions on women preaching in the church, God's love,tithe,creation,old testament and new testament, or is the bible contradicting itself? All these questions has been dealt with inside DAKE BIBLE. That's all i can say. God bless you. God2man. testament, or is the bible contradicting itself? All these questions has been dealt with inside DAKE BIBLE. That's all i can say. God bless you. God2man.

mazaje:

The OP is very simple its about Christians picking and choosing what they believe and using it to castigate others, no?. . .The same thing is what you are doing here, I will show it to you soon. . .

i'm waiting for this showing. i've not cherry picked scriptures like you were cherry picking my words, and the scriptures. i'm not in denial or disbelief of any scripture passage. i can only quote what seems relevant to the discuss or as based on questions you ask. All i've required is that you present them one after the other, in an orderly manner, so that we can perhaps have a profitable discussion, not just a throw up of atheistic frustrations.