Maynman:

Where is Al getting information from?
You must be a brainwashed fool.
Continue basing your life on a Roman Parody.

Everything is forgery!

Your obsession with Irenaeus is becoming something else.
Did I ever debate irenaeus here with u for one minute.
When u have no evidence u start whataboutism.

U slowpoke. U condemned AI when it contradict your claim but ran to the same AI to post meaningless statement.
See who wants to challenges artificial intelligence.
Someone that never knew Herod's were Jewish, that thought Judaism meant Judah, couldn't answer one question without deflecting to irrelevance.
What has your post got to do with any of the debate here.

SIRTee15:


Your obsession with Irenaeus is becoming something else.
Did I ever debate irenaeus here with u for one minute.
When u have no evidence u start whataboutism.

U slowpoke. U condemned AI when it contradict your claim but ran to the same AI to post meaningless statement.
See who wants to challenges artificial intelligence.

Everything you know about apostolic father is from iraneus, who named them “5 apostolic fathers”? Who counted it?
How did you know about polycarp?
Why are you avoiding iraneus?

Your 4 gospel is the work of iraneaus, he also gave names to the books. You are the one that’s brainwashed with the doctrine of a man.

You LYING illiterate, i have never condemned Al, you are the hypocrite that uses Al when it suits you, have you forgotten when you accused me of manipulating Al because it was giving answers that you were not comfortable with?

SIRTee15:


Someone that never knew Herod's were Jewish, that thought Judaism meant Judah, couldn't answer one question without deflecting to irrelevance.
What has your post got to do with any of the debate here.

You are a liar like your creator, it was you that brought in herod and you said he was HALF Jewish and you also said he converted to Judaism.

Out of the tribes, only judah kingdom was standing that’s where you get yehudah(judaism) from.
In your Old Testament and New Testament did you see them call anyone a “judaist”?? Dullard!
Herod was a pharisee!

You don’t even know what religion from religio means, you think ancient people were saying i am a muslim, or i am a Christian all around?
Illiterate!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio

I told you to tell me the religion of Alexander the great, your barren self haven’t told me..

Maynman:

Iraneus boy.
The books you are basing your life on were written by UNKNOWN PEOPLE.

Nor do any of the letters we have addressed to Polycarp mention it. There’s also no evidence any Apostle was actually alive when Polycarp was even a schoolboy—which would have been the late 70s A.D. at the earliest, when the Apostles would have been in their late 60s or even 80s, if any were even alive at all, and we have no evidence any were. Average lifespan for an adult at that time was 48 (On the Historicity of Jesus, Element 22, Ch. 4). Not even the Martyrdom of Polycarp, which is basically a fawning eulogy of him, makes any mention of his ever knowing any Apostles or tutoring under John.

It's now I understand why intelligent Christians on this forum like TenQ don't debate with u.
U deflect your mental deficiency by jumping from pillar to post whenever u caught and begin to get confused.
Now that u can't prove Polycarp or any of the apostolic fathers didn't exist, u are on the validity of the gospel book.
Show me the apostolic fathers were invented, no u can't.
The funny thing is if I take u on the gospel books now, u will flounder and quickly find another inconsequential topic to pander about.
This debate was if the apostolic fathers were real people who existed in the first century.

SIRTee15:


It's now I understand why intelligent Christians on this forum like TenQ don't debate with u.
U deflect your mental deficiency by jumping from pillar to post whenever u caught and begin to get confused.
Now that u can't prove Polycarp or any of the apostolic fathers didn't exist, u are on the validity of the gospel book.
Show me the apostolic fathers were invented, no u can't.
The funny thing is if I take u on the gospel books now, u will flounder and quickly find another inconsequential topic to pander about.
This debate was if the apostolic fathers were real people who existed in the first century.

Everything you know about apostolic father is from iranues. Who named them “5 apostolic father”?
Everything you have been defending since is been argued for forgery, if not for insanity and strong ignorance, will any right thinking person be basing their lives on forgery?

Why don’t you prove they exist beyond their Forged letters?
All their epistles are forgery.


There’s no evidence any Apostle was actually alive when Polycarp was even a schoolboy—which would have been the late 70s A.D. at the earliest, when the Apostles would have been in their late 60s or even 80s, if any were even alive at all, and we have no evidence any were. Average lifespan for an adult at that time was 48 (On the Historicity of Jesus, Element 22, Ch. 4). Not even the Martyrdom of Polycarp, which is basically a fawning eulogy of him, makes any mention of his ever knowing any Apostles or tutoring under John

SIRTee15:


This debate was if the apostolic fathers were real people who existed in the first century.

Whose debate? What is the title of this thread?

Why did the early Christian manuscript read “Chrestian”?

SIRTee15:



Show me the apostolic fathers were invented, no u can't.

You said papias is the first to use the term christian, so how old was papias when nero blamed christians for the fire in rome?

Maynman:

You said papias is the first to use the term christian, so how old was papias when nero blamed christians for the fire in rome?

Where did I say papias was the first to use the word Christian?

Now that we've established the historicity of Jesus and confirmed there were actually people called Christians in the first century.
I will be discussing evidence of the gospel manuscripts in the first century. We would be talking about the historicity of the gospel.

SIRTee15:


Where did I say papias was the first to use the word Christian?

So what did you say about papias and the word christian?

SIRTee15:
Now that we've established the historicity of Jesus and confirmed there were actually people called Christians in the first century.
I will be discussing evidence of the gospel manuscripts in the first century. We would be talking about the historicity of the gospel.

There was nothing like “Christianity” in first century, the word “Christian” didn’t exist. Even your New Testament wrote “Chrestian”.

You yourself Said the “Christ” in josephus book is forged, because….

The Jews use stoning for blasphemy not crucifixion. Acts 7:54-60 NIV - The Stoning of Stephen, and this was just after the fake ascension of Jesus Christ into the clouds. So the Jesus Christ and crucifixion stories were clearly invented to start a Jesus Christ movement.

"A Jewish court could not have passed a sentence of death by crucifixion without violating the Jewish law."

The act of putting to death by nailing or binding to a cross. Among the modes of Capital Punishment known to the Jewish penal law, crucifixion is not found; the "hanging" of criminals "on a tree," mentioned in Deut. xxi. 22, was resorted to in New Testament times only after lapidation (Sanh. vi. 4; Sifre, ii. 221, ed. Friedmann, Vienna, 1864). A Jewish court could not have passed a sentence of death by crucifixion without violating the Jewish law. The Roman penal code recognized this cruel penalty from remote times (Aurelius Victor Cæsar, 41). It may have developed out of the primitive custom of "hanging" ("arbori suspendere"wink on the "arbor infelix," which was dedicated to the gods of the nether world. Seneca ("Epistola," 101) still calls the cross "infelix lignum." Trees were often used for crucifying convicts (Tertullian, "Apologia," viii. 16). Originally only slaves were crucified; hence "death on the cross" and "supplicium servile" were used indiscriminately (Tacitus, "Historia," iv. 3, 11). Later, provincial freedmen of obscure station ("humiles"wink were added to the class liable to this sentence. Roman citizens were exempt under all circumstances (Cicero, "Verr." i. 7; iii. 2, 24, 26; iv. 10 et seq.). The following crimes entailed this penalty: piracy, highway robbery, assassination, forgery, false testimony, mutiny, high treason, rebellion (see Pauly-Wissowa, "Real-Encyc." s.v. "Crux"; Josephus, "B. J." v. 11, § 1). Soldiers that deserted to the enemy and slaves who denounced their masters ("delatio domini"winkwere also punished by death on the cross. https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4782-crucifixion

Maynman:

So what did you say about papias and the word christian?

I asked u if papias was a Christian, where u got that I said he was the first to use the word Christian, I don't know.

SIRTee15:


I asked u if papias was a Christian, where u got that I said he was the first to use the word Christian, I don't know.

Okay.

SIRTee15:

Were there followers of Jesus Christ in the 1st century AD. YES OR NO

Earliest writings of the invented jesus christ, started from around ad 95 by the Jewish historian who help the Roman empire to invent jesus christ. None of them saw the invented jesus christ. The stories we heard of Oyenusi was that bullets could not penetrate his body that they had the remove a pot from his belly to remove his power, even my mature teacher told me this in form 4. But careful research now show that such never happened.

116 AD: Tacitus (c. 56-120 AD): Tacitus was a Roman historian who mentioned Jesus in his work "Annals," written around 116 AD. He referred to Jesus in the context of the Roman Emperor Nero's persecution of Christians following the Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD.

112 AD: Pliny the Younger (c. 61-113 AD): Pliny the Younger was a Roman magistrate and writer. In a letter to the Roman Emperor Trajan dated around 112 AD, he mentioned early Christian practices and their worship of Christ. This letter provides insight into the growth of Christianity in the early 2nd century.

guysbewise:


Earliest writings of the invented jesus christ, started from around ad 95 by the Jewish historian who help the Roman empire to invent jesus christ. None of them saw the invented jesus christ.

116 AD: Tacitus (c. 56-120 AD): Tacitus was a Roman historian who mentioned Jesus in his work "Annals," written around 116 AD. He referred to Jesus in the context of the Roman Emperor Nero's persecution of Christians following the Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD.

112 AD: Pliny the Younr (c. 61-113 AD): Pliny the Younger was a Roman magistrate and writer. In a letter to the Roman Emperor Trajan dated around 112 AD, he mentioned early Christian practices and their worship of Christ. This letter provides insight into the growth of Christianity in the early 2nd century.

They were talking about Chrestians.

Maynman:

They were talking about Chrestians.

And there were already Chrestians and Bishops before the invented Jesus christ was born

guysbewise:


And there were already Chrestians and Bishops before the invented Jesus christ was born

The Chi Rho goes back to Egypt.

Maynman:

The Chi Rho goes back to Egypt.

That's correct

guysbewise:


Earliest writings of the invented jesus christ, started from around ad 95 by the Jewish historian who help the Roman empire to invent jesus christ. None of them saw the invented jesus christ. The stories we heard of Oyenusi was that bullets could not penetrate his body that they had the remove a pot from his belly to remove his power, even my mature teacher told me this in form 4. But careful research now show that such never happened.

116 AD: Tacitus (c. 56-120 AD): Tacitus was a Roman historian who mentioned Jesus in his work "Annals," written around 116 AD. He referred to Jesus in the context of the Roman Emperor Nero's persecution of Christians following the Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD.

112 AD: Pliny the Younger (c. 61-113 AD): Pliny the Younger was a Roman magistrate and writer. In a letter to the Roman Emperor Trajan dated around 112 AD, he mentioned early Christian practices and their worship of Christ. This letter provides insight into the growth of Christianity in the early 2nd century.

So tell me who was father Clement and father Papias.

SIRTee15:


So tell me who was father Clement and father Papias.

Mental psychosis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn9OBhbRlQc?si=Zmz7zM2Ztru4Qtjn

SIRTee15:

So tell me who was father Clement and father Papias.

I will start with father Papias,. Why are all his writings lost but later Christians were referencing him?

Father Clement could be any Catholic priest today so you need to give more info so that we can research about him too.

guysbewise:


I will start with father Papias,. Why are all his writings lost but later Christians were referencing him?

Iranues coincidentally found one and that one coincidentally contained his information about who is and what he did.
What a coincidence.

Maynman:

Iranues coincidentally found one and that one coincidentally contained his information about who is and what he did.
What a coincidence.

A very BIG coincidence! And all of father Papias writings are lost

guysbewise:


I will start with father Papias,. Why are all his writings lost but later Christians were referencing him?

Father Clement could be any Catholic priest today so you need to give more info so that we can research about him too.

If u want to go to into lost writings u had better start showing me the original writings or earliest works of Plato, Socrates, julius caeser, Aristotle et Al
Otherwise u don't have a point.

I'm talking about father Clement, one of the apostolic fathers.
Read about him online, I can't be repeating myself up and down.

SIRTee15:


If u want to go to into lost writings u had better start showing me the original writings or earliest works of Plato, Socrates, julius caeser, Aristotle et Al
Otherwise u don't have a point.

I'm talking about father Clement, one of the apostolic fathers.
Read about him online, I can't be repeating myself up and down.

Here is the work of
Philo Judeas Born: 25 BC, Alexandria, Egypt, in the Roman province of Egypt, was a Hellenistic Jewish philosopher who was around during the time of Jesus Christ, during His ministry and after the ministry of Jesus Christ.
He did not write about the invented jesus christ. But had this to write instead:

Philo Judeas wrote about Caesar Augustus Rome’s Greatest Emperor, in the eastern roman empire was claimed to being god's anointed one and the son of god.

The account of the birth of Caesar Augustus in Rome also has some similarities to that of the invented jesus christ. So the Jews are correct that the Jewish Messiah has not yet come.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=limDa2wNmKg

guysbewise:


Here is the work of
Philo Judeas Born: 25 BC, Alexandria, Egypt, in the Roman province of Egypt, was a Hellenistic Jewish philosopher who was around during the time of Jesus Christ, during His ministry and after the ministry of Jesus Christ.
He did not write about their invented jesus christ. But had this to write instead:

Philo Judeas wrote about Caesar Augustus Rome’s Greatest Emperor, in the eastern roman empire was claimed to being god's anointed one and the son of god.

The account of the birth of Caesar Augustus in Rome also has some similarities to that of the invented jesus christ. So the Jews are correct that the Jewish Messiah has not yet come.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=limDa2wNmKg

U dont understand my question do u?

I'm asking u for the earliest copy of the works of any ancient writer or figure.
Since u picked on Philo, tell me what is the oldest copy of philo's text that we have with us today.
Or do we have any of his original autographs written by him.
What is the oldest copy of any text we have today that mentioned Philo.

That's what I'm asking for, not a copy of his works.
These copies could be forgery for all we care if we don't have a consistent chain of narration of the works that can be traced back to the original author.

Or is that not u guys demand of jesus?

guysbewise:


Here is the work of
Philo Judeas Born: 25 BC, Alexandria, Egypt, in the Roman province of Egypt, was a Hellenistic Jewish philosopher who was around during the time of Jesus Christ, during His ministry and after the ministry of Jesus Christ.
He did not write about the invented jesus christ. But had this to write instead:

Philo Judeas wrote about Caesar Augustus Rome’s Greatest Emperor, in the eastern roman empire was claimed to being god's anointed one and the son of god.

The account of the birth of Caesar Augustus in Rome also has some similarities to that of the invented jesus christ. So the Jews are correct that the Jewish Messiah has not yet come.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=limDa2wNmKg

U wondering why philo wrote about Augustus but not Jesus.

Seriously are u comparing Jesus to Augustus in their contemporary times.
Like seriously!!!!

Did Philo write about other jewish Messiah claimants in the early first century.
Did he write about Judas of gamala
Did he write about Theudas the zealot.

These men were popular amongst the Jews, they raised army and fought against the Roman occupation around 1-50 AD to prove their messianic claim.
What did your historian Philo write about them?


Philo died in AD 50, so would be very much aware of the riots and rebellion against roman authority that rocked the whole of judea in the early first century AD.

Did he write about the zealots that pioneered the revolution. The zealots were blamed for the first Jewish- roman war.
Even the bible mentioned one of Jesus disciple was called Simon the zealot just to show u the impact this movement had at that period.

Did Philo report about the execution of Judas's sons, James and Simon by procurator Tiberius Julius Alexander in about 46 CE. James and Simon were fierce nationalists who caused the people to revolt when Quirinius came to take an account of the estates of the Jews.

Did Philo write about Pontus Pilate and the massacre of the Samaritans led by their Messiah like figure Dositheus in AD 37. Philo was very much alive and active that time, u can't tell me he didn't hear about it because that action led to the removal of Pontus Pilate as governor of judea.

Philo didn't even write about John the Baptist who was more popular than Jesus during his time.

So Philo wrote about Roman figures in Rome but never bothered to write about jews living in Judea
Yet some expected him to write about a pacifist whose ministry was restricted to Galilee and never stirred much trouble with Roman authorities.

So much for how people search for missing clues.

Maynman:

Mental psychosis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn9OBhbRlQc?si=Zmz7zM2Ztru4Qtjn

Go and look for the book of Didache and read it.
That's the assignment I gave u.
Until then u are best ignored.

guysbewise:


A very BIG coincidence! And all of father Papias writings are lost

Father Papias of herapolis works survived deep into the mid first millennium CE

cc Maynman

SIRTee15:


Father Papias of herapolis works survived deep into the mid first millennium CE

cc Maynman

Read what you posted.

SIRTee15:


Go and look for the book of Didache and read it.
That's the assignment I gave u.
Until then u are best ignored.

Send me the link where you read yours and it contain book of matthew, just little question you have gone empty like your isrealite deity since.