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Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * - Religion (12) - Nairaland

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Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 4:15pm On Feb 16
HellVictorinho6:


undecided

U dont determine what i mean
ok.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 4:35pm On Feb 16
Mayntheemaynn:

nothing can be "created" it can only be MADE. everything you need is already in existence.

My dear brother, you have me entirely lost.
Its okay, it was a pleasure discussing.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 4:43pm On Feb 16
DeepSight:


My dear brother, you have me entirely lost.
Its okay, it was a pleasure discussing.
well, maybe this link will make it a bit clear ...from science view.
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/science-the-universe-has-always-existed-really-bad-news-for-young-earth-creationism/
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 4:50pm On Feb 16
Mayntheemaynn:

well, maybe this link will make it a bit clear ...from science view.
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/science-the-universe-has-always-existed-really-bad-news-for-young-earth-creationism/

Thanks for the link. I have read through. Its just a hypothesis and says nothing of any note.

But on the portion which talks about God creating out of nothing. Please note that creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothingness) is not the only precept of creation. There is also creatio ex materia (creation at out of some pre existing material) and creatio ex deo (creation from God's very own substance)
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 4:56pm On Feb 16
DeepSight:


Thanks for the link. I have read through. Its just a hypothesis and says nothing of any note.

But on the portion which talks about God creating out of nothing. Please note that creatio ex nihilo (creation out of nothingness) is not the only precept of creation. There is also creatio ex materia (creation at out of some pre existing material) and creatio ex deo (creation from God's very own substance)
It's just for the context of what I an saying, that everything has always existed.

That portion is talking about the Christian view na
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Image123(m): 5:55pm On Feb 16
FRANCISTOWN:


Lol! I'm childish because I refused to be conformed with evil? What a play.🤣🤣🤣

There is no answer anyone wants to give that we've not heared countless of them.

It's either:
•God was more interested in their souls than their bodies thus prepared he them for eternal life. Eternal life my ass. Eternal life that there is no proof of. They, not considering that there might actually be very wicked people amongst those who died.
I doubt if they'd be exonerated of their guilts just because they died by Hitler.

•Or God knows the best.

Evil is actually evil.
Incapability is actually incapability.

There is no justification for an omnipotent god to open his eyes and watch as bandits attack his children in his own house without doing shit about it.
Even your bible says , only a stronger man can rob a strong man. He first ties him up and robs him with his eyes wide open.
The same with armed robbers, their arms make them stronger.
Should we agree that the bandits are stronger than your god, that's the reason he can't do anything with his eyes wide open?
Could it be that he doesn't even have eyes?
Could it be that he doesn't even have ears?
Could he be that he is not omnipotent after all?
I get it, it's simply because he doesn't exist.

I'm not sure I'd have the power to protect my kids and I'll do nothing, unless I'm mad.

An Omnipotent god is watching a kid being molested and at a snap of his fingers, the molester can vanish or petrify. Yet he doesn't do shit and just enjoy the show.

There is no justification under the skies that can absorb such level of foolishness, wickedness, immorality and irresponsibility of a self caused God. (Thinking about this I'm getting angry self).

Lemme share this with you, in the author's words:

"The story goes like this: in kidnapping 5–6 year old boys, and then raping and torturing them to death on video, which was then sold to wealthy businessmen around the world.

At the time, I remember reading that when the Russian policemen and soldiers busted the place, they couldn’t help but cry because of what they saw.

As I prayed, and read the Bible, and contemplated the horseshit within it, one inescapable conclusion kept popping up in my mind that while those little boys were being tortured and were dying in an unimaginable way, this Christian god was present in that same room, had the power to stop it, and didn’t.

We always hear that pedophiles do not survive long in prisons because even the worst offenders we have - rapists and murderers, do not tolerate pedophiles. They kill them because even the worst we have understand that a pedophile is the lowest of the low, violating the innocence. Yet omnipresent, omnipotent god knew from the beginning of time that these boys would suffer this fate, was present in the room while it was happening, and did nothing. I could never reconcile that with what the Bible taught."


1. Even the policemen who raided the place couldn't help at the sight of that kind of horror. They were sad to their souls that they shed hot, bitter tears. Yet, a supposed omnipotent, omnipresent god couldn't do anything about it. Imagine how many kids have been molested, killed (I can't even talk about it because it's too terrible to imagine)

2. @The second emboldened. Even rapists, murderers and other hardened criminals cannot tolerate pedophiles, yet a supposed god would rather enjoy the show. Does that make any sense to you?

That's the reason I said, none of the supreme beings being worshipped in every religion on earth fits into what can be called a "God". They fit more into a "Demon". Even demons if they existed can never be that wicked and irresponsible. The ideology of a "God" is very stupid and imbecilic.

The Muslim guys are way smarter, that's the reason they call their supposed "God" Allah. They knew the characteristics of Allah does not fit into what is supposed to be called a "God".
Yahweh doesn't even come close. If he existed, he would effortlessly pass the interview to being a demon(a very wicked one at that).

Do you still want me to ask questions? Then I'd be a very stupid, wicked, demented earthly bastard to tryna find a way around this abominable act of outlandish wickedness.

If yourself, PoliteActivist, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, MaxInDHouse, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022 and several others are cool with this supposed "God"? Your wickedness must be out of this world.







Why on earth are you disturbing me with unwarranted mentions when you don't even want to believe? The foolish fools have defined God in their small minds, God does not fit their definition, therefore there is no God. Enjoy the delusion na, or why do you need me to come and convince you? You that your wickedness no reach, you see humans as family with animals abi you no reason am like that? Do you want eternity? No. But you no wicked, lolz.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 7:09pm On Feb 16
LordReed:


Again there is NO TIME. You are thinking like the time locked being we are but a no time situation means a whole set of possibilities could exist that we can barely comprehend.

Do you agree that 2 and 1,000,000,000 are examples of an infinite set of numbers?

Time or no time, I think you still fail to grasp the simplicity of the point that an infinity of steps cannot have a conclusion or result in anything. It never ends, and thus goes nowhere and results in nothing.

Now with your second paragraph you are conflating issues. I will tell you why I say so. Yes, obviously one can have an infinity of fractions in any number and thus even an infinity of moments in any second or minute. But you see, that only exists within a construct of the mind - such as numbers are. No infinity is actually proven to exist in material things. And yet again, no infinite amount of of causes can cause anything because they never end and thus go nowhere. Thats what the quote I got for you from Quora was saying. When you have a real world, an actual here and now, it could not have arisen from an infinity of causes. Such a chain will remain suspended in perpetual succession and lead to nothing.

Let me just add a little something to this. Have you really reflected on the idea of an infinite regression and considered if it is possible, conceivable or has any real meaning whatsoever?

Because it is nothing but fantasy. Worse fantasy than time travel.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 7:19pm On Feb 16
FRANCISTOWN:


Lol! I'm childish because I refused to be conformed with evil? What a play.🤣🤣🤣

There is no answer anyone wants to give that we've not heared countless of them.

It's either:
•God was more interested in their souls than their bodies thus prepared he them for eternal life. Eternal life my ass. Eternal life that there is no proof of. They, not considering that there might actually be very wicked people amongst those who died.
I doubt if they'd be exonerated of their guilts just because they died by Hitler.

•Or God knows the best.

Evil is actually evil.
Incapability is actually incapability.

There is no justification for an omnipotent god to open his eyes and watch as bandits attack his children in his own house without doing shit about it.
Even your bible says , only a stronger man can rob a strong man. He first ties him up and robs him with his eyes wide open.
The same with armed robbers, their arms make them stronger.
Should we agree that the bandits are stronger than your god, that's the reason he can't do anything with his eyes wide open?
Could it be that he doesn't even have eyes?
Could it be that he doesn't even have ears?
Could he be that he is not omnipotent after all?
I get it, it's simply because he doesn't exist.

I'm not sure I'd have the power to protect my kids and I'll do nothing, unless I'm mad.

An Omnipotent god is watching a kid being molested and at a snap of his fingers, the molester can vanish or petrify. Yet he doesn't do shit and just enjoy the show.

There is no justification under the skies that can absorb such level of foolishness, wickedness, immorality and irresponsibility of a self caused God. (Thinking about this I'm getting angry self).

Lemme share this with you, in the author's words:

"The story goes like this: in kidnapping 5–6 year old boys, and then raping and torturing them to death on video, which was then sold to wealthy businessmen around the world.

At the time, I remember reading that when the Russian policemen and soldiers busted the place, they couldn’t help but cry because of what they saw.

As I prayed, and read the Bible, and contemplated the horseshit within it, one inescapable conclusion kept popping up in my mind that while those little boys were being tortured and were dying in an unimaginable way, this Christian god was present in that same room, had the power to stop it, and didn’t.

We always hear that pedophiles do not survive long in prisons because even the worst offenders we have - rapists and murderers, do not tolerate pedophiles. They kill them because even the worst we have understand that a pedophile is the lowest of the low, violating the innocence. Yet omnipresent, omnipotent god knew from the beginning of time that these boys would suffer this fate, was present in the room while it was happening, and did nothing. I could never reconcile that with what the Bible taught."


1. Even the policemen who raided the place couldn't help at the sight of that kind of horror. They were sad to their souls that they shed hot, bitter tears. Yet, a supposed omnipotent, omnipresent god couldn't do anything about it. Imagine how many kids have been molested, killed (I can't even talk about it because it's too terrible to imagine)

2. @The second emboldened. Even rapists, murderers and other hardened criminals cannot tolerate pedophiles, yet a supposed god would rather enjoy the show. Does that make any sense to you?

That's the reason I said, none of the supreme beings being worshipped in every religion on earth fits into what can be called a "God". They fit more into a "Demon". Even demons if they existed can never be that wicked and irresponsible. The ideology of a "God" is very stupid and imbecilic.

The Muslim guys are way smarter, that's the reason they call their supposed "God" Allah. They knew the characteristics of Allah does not fit into what is supposed to be called a "God".
Yahweh doesn't even come close. If he existed, he would effortlessly pass the interview to being a demon(a very wicked one at that).

Do you still want me to ask questions? Then I'd be a very stupid, wicked, demented earthly bastard to tryna find a way around this abominable act of outlandish wickedness.

If yourself, PoliteActivist, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, MaxInDHouse, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022 and several others are cool with this supposed "God"? Your wickedness must be out of this world.







Difficult not to concur. Indeed I have often said that whatever entities are responsible for the existence of this world, they must likely be sadistic entities.

Have a look at this -

https://www.nairaland.com/7012877/sadistic-nature-earth-life

One thing I have concluded is that certain things are incomprehensible. Whatever else the truth may be, the notion of God as a soft lovey dovey teddy bear is evidently misfooted.

God exists, to my mind, and in my view, but IT is not as we conceive IT.

1 Like

Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 7:29pm On Feb 16
But you were able to conceive that it is a being lol
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 7:34pm On Feb 16
Mayntheemaynn:
But you were able to conceive that it is a being lol

I don't know. It could be an impersonal force, factor or element.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 7:35pm On Feb 16
DeepSight:


I don't know. It could be an impersonal force, factor or element.
You are saying the same thing, being means to be.

Your god only exist in your mind truly.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by FxMasterz: 7:37pm On Feb 16
PoliteActivist:


Thanks for calling the write-up "a wonderful exposition", but remember, I am playing devil's advocate for both sides.
So. how would you answer when they ask:

Why do countless people die from natural disasters, diseases, wars, etc. including children, babies, even those still in the womb?
And why do some people deny and deride God daily and still live their full lives sometimes much better than others, while churches and mosques sometimes collapse or are attacked killing worshippers inside, sometimes including babies?

How would you answer these?


Honestly, I love these questions so much. These are the types of questions atheists are supposed to seek answers to before making erroneous conclusions about God. Hence I'll answer these questions and even more. I'll disregarded every other mention from this thread right now and focus on these questions because they're the main issues most atheists have with God.

Permit me to quote scriptures because if you ask questions regarding God, you can only see clarifications from what God has said about Himself and the explanations He has given concerning seemingly confusing events.

Question 1

Why do countless people die from natural disasters, diseases, wars, etc. including children, babies, even those still in the womb?


Answer

Very simple answer. People, including babies fall into diverse mishap because wicked forces are in control of man's world.

It was man's world. God created the world and handed man its absolute control. ABSOLUTE CONTROL. Man was the god of this world. He had control over the physical, natural and spirit realms.

When a farmer loses control of His farm, weeds and thorns would take over. The earth is Satan's property because man handed it over to him. Satan is the god of this world who controls all the happenings in the world. He has ABSOLUTE CONTROL. God would
not interfere without being invited. It's a spiritual law. God isn't a lawbreaker. He doesn't break even the laws He has set by Himself. He can only intervene, not intrude, and that by invitation. Whenever God intervenes, it's called a miracle. A miracle is simply God's intervention in Satan's world to help a particular human or a group of humans. Once a tenant legally takes over a property, he becomes the lord of that property until his tenancy expires. The landlord cannot interfere, he can only intervene upon invitation. That's the simplest way to explain it. However, the issue is much more broader than that. Man has no words to explain some certain spiritual phenomenon. You need a personal understanding to grasp the scope of these things.

"The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: But the earth hath he given to the children of men.[/v]" Psalm 115:16

Man handed the earth over to Satan in Eden. Earth became Satan's property legally. It was supposed to be a perpetual transaction but God turned it into a form of finite tenancy by the coming of Jesus. Satan's ownership of the earth now has an expiry date

Luke 4:9-11
[b]"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant ALL THE KINGDOMS of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”


You can hear the devil boasting that the world belongs to him because it has been given to him and therefore HE CAN EVEN GIVE IT TO ANYONE HE WANTS. Yeah, it was given to him by Adam through a spiritual transaction. Jesus didn't dispute that statement because He knew it was true.

A property owner has the right to do his property as he wishes. Jesus turned Satan's ownership into tenancy (This is another separate discussion on its own - very broad). The god of this world distributes what he wishes around the world. God won't interfere. It would make Him a God of illegality. He can only intervene when invited. However, if you are a faithful follower of God (not necessarily a church goer. When you see people dancing and praising God in church, among them are prostitutes, armed robbers, ritualists, satanists, cultists, etc. Not everyone in church is God's. God is not attracted to buildings. Buildings are for men even when they call it the house of God. God's house is man's heart.) A true follower of God is the only one to whom God has respect. Satan sits in so many hearts. God's men, and by extension, God's houses are relatively few.

1 John 5:19
"We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one."

God has His selected few in the midst of this perverse world. The rest of the world is under the control of the wicked one - Satan.

"Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” Revelation 11:15.

At the expiration of time, the Kingdoms of this world would BECOME the Kingdom of God and of Christ. Christ is the second Adam who would receive to Himself the restoration of the world on behalf of man.

Question 2
And why do some people deny and deride God daily and still live their full lives sometimes much better than others, while churches and mosques sometimes collapse or are attacked killing worshippers inside, sometimes including babies?

Answer

God is not an emotional Being. He works according to rules and principles. God does not get angry with you when you deride Him or throw Him insults. He looks mercifully on such because He knows they're ignorant. You'll see that in Jesus' response as He was nailed to the tree: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Those were not man's words. Those are divine words flowing out of the Devine nature. That's the nature of God. He gives the sinner all the opportunities he has in this world to repent until his time is up. God does not have the faintest evil thoughts in mind towards such persons. His principle is that justice would be served as soon as the fellow's cup is full. God doesn't judge people because he hates them. He judges them because that's justice. He earnestly wants a sinner to repent rather than face judgement. God will wait very long for the sinner to repent. That sinner would have no excuse when his cup is full.

Romans 2:4

"Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?"

Now, let's talk about why God looks on when churches are attacked and people get killed in church.

As I've said earlier, God is not interested in buildings. Sometimes, what people call the house of God are actually houses of Satan. A place doesn't become the house of God just because people worship there. Jesus wrote to 7 churches in the book of Revelation 2 - 3. Out of those 7 churches which were referred to by everyone as the gatherings of God's people and the Holy Houses of God, the Lord Jesus acknowledged just 2. Others where tagged synagogue of Satan by Jesus Himself while humans tag them houses of God.

Wherever there's calamity, many people would suffer, but God would give His select few a means of escape. This is applicable even to so called churches of God. God will give His own a means of escape.

God does not see babies as men see them. Men see babies in the present, God sees babies in their future. While you are looking at a young innocent beautiful baby, God may be looking at an armed robber, a hardened criminal, a prostitute, a murderer or a man of God, a great president, an outstanding scientist in the same baby. God will save babies that are worth saving even in the midst of dangerous calamities that take away adults. He knows the ones who'll bless the world in Adulthood. Take for example the case of a baby in Palestine who was found unscathed under the rubbles of a fallen house days after its family was annihilated by an Israeli strike to their home. Everyone knows that's a miracle. A Devine intervention. You don't need to look far before you'll find that God preserved the baby for a future. He considered her worth saving.

Let me add that God does not see death the way humans see it. Humans see death as a painful loss. It weighs heavily on the emotions. It's regarded as the greatest evil. God doesn't see death that way. God sees death as a simple transition from the ephemeral physical state to an eternal spiritual state. The spiritual state offers more benefits and pleasure than the physical state. To God, it's not evil to transit from the good to the better. Men see it as evil because they can't see beyond the physical. Some people would rejoice boundlessly if they're permitted to see the state of their departed loved ones. Especially babies. People who die in Christ in particular do not want a chance to return to this world. Death is not a termination of life. It is the real begining of the real life.

Well, it's understandable. You could grow emotional when your loved one is departing your country to another country. No matter whatever good the other country offers, your emotions would come to play when waving the person goodbye because you know you won't see him again for a long time to come. How much more when someone leaves the earth? Then, look at it, the friends in that other country are joyously and eagerly awaiting the the arrival of the same loved one you're getting emotional about. God rejoices when He sees someone coming home to Him. You cannot imagine how much God loves man.

Psalm 116:15
Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his faithful servants.

Let me add another question which you didn't ask:

Question 3

Why was God looking on when Hitler killed the Jews?

Answer

The Jews have suffered worldwide even before the holocaust. They were objects of mockery everywhere in the world. At the time, Jewish lives didn't matter. All sorts of calamities befell them. It has been so since AD 70 when the Roman Armies destroyed Jerusalem, and escaped Jews became vagabonds all over the world for almost 2 millennia.

However, they were the ones who brought the calamity upon themselves by their response when Pilate told them He wouldn't have his hands in the death of the innocent man Jesus. How did they respond?

Mathew 27:25
"All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”

That blood haunted them until Hitler. You can read stories of the pre-hitler sufferings of the Jews.

Note that God does not any longer count the physical Jews as His special people. His special people in the new testament are those who believe in His Son Jesus and follow Him faithfully. These are the spiritual Jews with whom God reckons today. The physical Jews have been discarded.

Romans 2:29

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."


The spiritual Jew is the only Jew God recognizes today. That spiritual Jew is that black, white, blue or red man who is a true follower of Christ.

Well, these are just the fundamental answers to these questions. The answers are quite broader than these. So many things have been left unsaid due to the constraints of space and time. But to the genuinely curious individual, these answers provide an open door to more enquiries and research to get to the very depth of the answers. Once you understand, you'll discover that there are some things you cannot even express in words.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 7:48pm On Feb 16
Mayntheemaynn:

You are saying the same thing, being means to be.

Your god only exist in your mind truly.

Probably everything exists in our minds anyway.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 7:49pm On Feb 16
DeepSight:


Probably everything exists in our minds anyway.
The mind is also part of everything.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 7:53pm On Feb 16
Mayntheemaynn:

The mind is also part of everything.

You make many odd statements. Statements such as are self evident and neednt be made.
What you have just written here is like writing: "A nail is a thing."

Whoever thought it wasnt a thing.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 7:55pm On Feb 16
DeepSight:


You make many odd statements. Statements such as are self evident and neednt be made.
What you have just written here is like writing: "A nail is a thing."

Whoever thought it wasnt a thing.

The mind is part of everything, so where is the mind itself existing?

The eastern religions are very interesting they have different concept to explore what's beyong the mind, bro deepsight.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by FRANCISTOWN: 7:57pm On Feb 16
Image123:


Why on earth are you disturbing me with unwarranted mentions when you don't even want to believe? The foolish fools have defined God in their small minds, God does not fit their definition, therefore there is no God. Enjoy the delusion na, or why do you need me to come and convince you? You that your wickedness no reach, you see humans as family with animals abi you no reason am like that? Do you want eternity? No. But you no wicked, lolz.

I didn't mention you for a contribution. What possibly do you guys have to gainsay me?

It was only a reference. I hope this makes you feel better
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 8:05pm On Feb 16
Mayntheemaynn:


The mind is part of everything, so where is the mind itself existing?

The eastern religions are very interesting they have different concept to explore what's beyong the mind, bro deepsight.

It is well.

Alhamdulillah

ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّٰهِ
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 8:08pm On Feb 16
DeepSight:


It is well.

Alhamdulillah

ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّٰهِ
If you look up the history very well, it's Hubal that is the Allah inside the shrine called Kaaba.
But it is well. grin
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 8:09pm On Feb 16
Mayntheemaynn:

If you look up the history very well, it's Hubal that is the Allah inside the shrine called Kaaba.
But it is well. grin

Guarding that meteorite they keep kissing?

Bisimillahi rahman raheem
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Mayntheemaynn: 8:11pm On Feb 16
DeepSight:


Guarding that meteorite they keep kissing?

Bisimillahi rahman raheem
Before Mohammed they were different colors of stones in different shrines called Kaaba.
The one in Mecca had the black stone one, I don't know if it is a meteorite or a stone painted black.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by HellVictorinho6(m): 12:01am On Feb 17
DeepSight:


Guarding that meteorite they keep kissing?

Bisimillahi rahman raheem

Send me 5k

I cant bear it again


Am fed up
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by PoliteActivist: 12:50am On Feb 17
FxMasterz:


Honestly, I love these questions so much. These are the types of questions atheists are supposed to seek answers to before making erroneous conclusions about God. Hence I'll answer these questions and even more. I'll disregarded every other mention from this thread right now and focus on these questions because they're the main issues most atheists have with God.

Permit me to quote scriptures because if you ask questions regarding God, you can only see clarifications from what God has said about Himself and the explanations He has given concerning seemingly confusing events.

Question 1

Why do countless people die from natural disasters, diseases, wars, etc. including children, babies, even those still in the womb?


Answer

Very simple answer. People, including babies fall into diverse mishap because wicked forces are in control of man's world.

It was man's world. God created the world and handed man its absolute control. ABSOLUTE CONTROL. Man was the god of this world. He had control over the physical, natural and spirit realms.

When a farmer loses control of His farm, weeds and thorns would take over. The earth is Satan's property because man handed it over to him. Satan is the god of this world who controls all the happenings in the world. He has ABSOLUTE CONTROL. God would
not interfere without being invited. It's a spiritual law. God isn't a lawbreaker. He doesn't break even the laws He has set by Himself. He can only intervene, not intrude, and that by invitation. Whenever God intervenes, it's called a miracle. A miracle is simply God's intervention in Satan's world to help a particular human or a group of humans. Once a tenant legally takes over a property, he becomes the lord of that property until his tenancy expires. The landlord cannot interfere, he can only intervene upon invitation. That's the simplest way to explain it. However, the issue is much more broader than that. Man has no words to explain some certain spiritual phenomenon. You need a personal understanding to grasp the scope of these things.

"The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: But the earth hath he given to the children of men.[/v]" Psalm 115:16

Man handed the earth over to Satan in Eden. Earth became Satan's property legally. It was supposed to be a perpetual transaction but God turned it into a form of finite tenancy by the coming of Jesus. Satan's ownership of the earth now has an expiry date

Luke 4:9-11
[b]"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant ALL THE KINGDOMS of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”


You can hear the devil boasting that the world belongs to him because it has been given to him and therefore HE CAN EVEN GIVE IT TO ANYONE HE WANTS. Yeah, it was given to him by Adam through a spiritual transaction. Jesus didn't dispute that statement because He knew it was true.

A property owner has the right to do his property as he wishes. Jesus turned Satan's ownership into tenancy (This is another separate discussion on its own - very broad). The god of this world distributes what he wishes around the world. God won't interfere. It would make Him a God of illegality. He can only intervene when invited. However, if you are a faithful follower of God (not necessarily a church goer. When you see people dancing and praising God in church, among them are prostitutes, armed robbers, ritualists, satanists, cultists, etc. Not everyone in church is God's. God is not attracted to buildings. Buildings are for men even when they call it the house of God. God's house is man's heart.) A true follower of God is the only one to whom God has respect. Satan sits in so many hearts. God's men, and by extension, God's houses are relatively few.

1 John 5:19
"We know that we are children of God and that the world around us is under the control of the evil one."

God has His selected few in the midst of this perverse world. The rest of the world is under the control of the wicked one - Satan.

"Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” Revelation 11:15.

At the expiration of time, the Kingdoms of this world would BECOME the Kingdom of God and of Christ. Christ is the second Adam who would receive to Himself the restoration of the world on behalf of man.

Question 2
And why do some people deny and deride God daily and still live their full lives sometimes much better than others, while churches and mosques sometimes collapse or are attacked killing worshippers inside, sometimes including babies?

Answer

God is not an emotional Being. He works according to rules and principles. God does not get angry with you when you deride Him or throw Him insults. He looks mercifully on such because He knows they're ignorant. You'll see that in Jesus' response as He was nailed to the tree: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Those were not man's words. Those are divine words flowing out of the Devine nature. That's the nature of God. He gives the sinner all the opportunities he has in this world to repent until his time is up. God does not have the faintest evil thoughts in mind towards such persons. His principle is that justice would be served as soon as the fellow's cup is full. God doesn't judge people because he hates them. He judges them because that's justice. He earnestly wants a sinner to repent rather than face judgement. God will wait very long for the sinner to repent. That sinner would have no excuse when his cup is full.

Romans 2:4

"Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?"

Now, let's talk about why God looks on when churches are attacked and people get killed in church.

As I've said earlier, God is not interested in buildings. Sometimes, what people call the house of God are actually houses of Satan. A place doesn't become the house of God just because people worship there. Jesus wrote to 7 churches in the book of Revelation 2 - 3. Out of those 7 churches which were referred to by everyone as the gatherings of God's people and the Holy Houses of God, the Lord Jesus acknowledged just 2. Others where tagged synagogue of Satan by Jesus Himself while humans tag them houses of God.

Wherever there's calamity, many people would suffer, but God would give His select few a means of escape. This is applicable even to so called churches of God. God will give His own a means of escape.

God does not see babies as men see them. Men see babies in the present, God sees babies in their future. While you are looking at a young innocent beautiful baby, God may be looking at an armed robber, a hardened criminal, a prostitute, a murderer or a man of God, a great president, an outstanding scientist in the same baby. God will save babies that are worth saving even in the midst of dangerous calamities that take away adults. He knows the ones who'll bless the world in Adulthood. Take for example the case of a baby in Palestine who was found unscathed under the rubbles of a fallen house days after its family was annihilated by an Israeli strike to their home. Everyone knows that's a miracle. A Devine intervention. You don't need to look far before you'll find that God preserved the baby for a future. He considered her worth saving.

Let me add that God does not see death the way humans see it. Humans see death as a painful loss. It weighs heavily on the emotions. It's regarded as the greatest evil. God doesn't see death that way. God sees death as a simple transition from the ephemeral physical state to an eternal spiritual state. The spiritual state offers more benefits and pleasure than the physical state. To God, it's not evil to transit from the good to the better. Men see it as evil because they can't see beyond the physical. Some people would rejoice boundlessly if they're permitted to see the state of their departed loved ones. Especially babies. People who die in Christ in particular do not want a chance to return to this world. Death is not a termination of life. It is the real begining of the real life.

Well, it's understandable. You could grow emotional when your loved one is departing your country to another country. No matter whatever good the other country offers, your emotions would come to play when waving the person goodbye because you know you won't see him again for a long time to come. How much more when someone leaves the earth? Then, look at it, the friends in that other country are joyously and eagerly awaiting the the arrival of the same loved one you're getting emotional about. God rejoices when He sees someone coming home to Him. You cannot imagine how much God loves man.

Psalm 116:15
Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his faithful servants.

Let me add another question which you didn't ask:

Question 3

Why was God looking on when Hitler killed the Jews?

Answer

The Jews have suffered worldwide even before the holocaust. They were objects of mockery everywhere in the world. At the time, Jewish lives didn't matter. All sorts of calamities befell them. It has been so since AD 70 when the Roman Armies destroyed Jerusalem, and escaped Jews became vagabonds all over the world for almost 2 millennia.

However, they were the ones who brought the calamity upon themselves by their response when Pilate told them He wouldn't have his hands in the death of the innocent man Jesus. How did they respond?

Mathew 27:25
"All the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!”

That blood haunted them until Hitler. You can read stories of the pre-hitler sufferings of the Jews.

Note that God does not any longer count the physical Jews as His special people. His special people in the new testament are those who believe in His Son Jesus and follow Him faithfully. These are the spiritual Jews with whom God reckons today. The physical Jews have been discarded.

Romans 2:29

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."


The spiritual Jew is the only Jew God recognizes today. That spiritual Jew is that black, white, blue or red man who is a true follower of Christ.

Well, these are just the fundamental answers to these questions. The answers are quite broader than these. So many things have been left unsaid due to the constraints of space and time. But to the genuinely curious individual, these answers provide an open door to more enquiries and research to get to the very depth of the answers. Once you understand, you'll discover that there are some things you cannot even express in words.

Thanks for the lengthy write-up.
Well, they'll ask you, so God doesn't destroy those who insult him because he is good, soo why doesn't Satan destroy those who insult him? Especially as he is god of this word and heavenly God has to be invited and can't intrude. They'll also say you paint God as being rather weak compared to God of OT.
Also God sees babies who'd be armed robbers and destroys them while saving those who'd help the world. Well they'd ask you who made them to be armed robbers and also why would God want to save those who'd help Satan's world.
About death. in the OT God punished people by shortening their lives and rewarded them by adding years, after which they were "gathered to their fathers." No inkling of death being a good thing. Even Lord Jesus never rejoiced at anybody dying and even wept when Lazarus died.
About suffering of the Jews, they'd ask you why the disciples who killed nobody suffered worse

DeepSight, LordReed, KnownUnknown, HellVictorinho6, francistown, FxMasterz, jaephoenix, maynman, hopefullandlord
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by PoliteActivist: 4:25am On Feb 17
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by PoliteActivist: 6:19am On Feb 17
DeepSight:


Now well done!

For this here, is one of the most apt and proper responses to the self existential argument I have always made. Indeed one would have expected a Lordreed to raise it, but he wouldn't because he doesn't really stop to ponder self existence and the thought development behind the concept. He rejects it beforehand.

Now I have a number of things to say to this.

1. When we speak of a self existent thing, we are talking about something that sits at the root of all reality, of all existence. Therefore do not make the mistake of thinking of it as necessarily something which directly gets up to be involved in special acts of creation such as creating a universe or a creature. It is rather a permanent factor which could not but exist, in other words a factor the non existence of which is impossible. And this is why infinite time is one such factor because it always necessarily exists. Here we do not speak of the scientific time which is simply a dimension of motion within this universe. We speak of that permanent time which does not move, which is still and infinite, and which may be described as the void into which events are interpolated.

2. Again dwell on the fact that the self existent things we speak of are so remote that we even dabble dangerously in attempting to discuss their nature, which is a point I cede to Lordreed when he says that all of these things are far beyond our capacity to know. So we must make room for that and limit ourselves to the little that some elementary logic and reasoning may permit us. And in that wise, let me use the sun as an analogy.

Imagine that the sun was a self existent thing. That it didn't have a beginning and will have no end, but was just there as it is. Now imagine the light it gives out as creation. So the sun, as it were, would not have to change in order to give out light. Giving out light is a function of its nature. Now please and please bear in mind that this is but a rough and speculative analogy, by no means exact to the point at hand but only intended to suggest that a self existent thing needn't be mutable in order to have and give out consequences of its nature.

3. So far, we have been speaking of these self existent things as impersonal forces. But what if, just what if, they actually have consciousness and agency. Because if they do, that would present the possibility that they can undertake definite actions without being mutable. In an analogous way to how you and I can do a single deed without changing the essence of our being.

Now frankly such forces being conscious takes us close to the religious idea of God, but not so close that it is an idea that must be thrown out with the bath water: because it has been suggested in philosophical thought and also in some scientific thinking as well that consciousness may be the fundamental building block of reality. See the double slit experiment and the way particles and waves act differently when observed as opposed to when not observed. This experiment suggested strongly that consciousness actually dictates reality.



All of this only affirms that nothingness does not exist.

As for those idiotic scientists such as Lawrence Krauss who attempt to say that something may come from nothing because of the behavior of virtual particles in a quantum vacuum, they are woefully wrong because even a quantum vacuum is not nothing. It contains low gaseous energy as you have correctly alluded.



I can't see anything disproved here. The idea behind "cogito ergo sum" is sound: the fact that you have thoughts demonstrates that there exists a being thinking those thoughts. This remains true even if the thoughts are an illusion because what that would mean is that there exists a being having that illusion. So it demonstrates to you, the thinker or the hallucinator, that at the minimum, you exist at some level or the other.

Thanks 4 your erudite submission. Well done.
Let me go straight to the points.
(Let's remember, we have to be able to explain what we mean such that it makes logical sense to a lay person):

A self-existent immutable element that's all by itself will stay self-existent, immutable, and all by itself forever. It cannot and will not suddenly START creating stuff outside itself no matter how remotely because there is no process by which it would start doing so. The operative word is "start".

As far as time, infinite time is the eternal NOW, the present moment, which is the only time that really exists. But it has nothing to do with our discussion. Our discussion is about spacetime type of time that doesn't exist without change or movement. That's what we mean when we say eternal. You can't say "eternal in the past" and mean NOW type of eternal.

As far as the sun anology, it doesn't have to be sun, it can be any unchanging thing with nothing else in existence with it. There is no mechanism by which it can start creating stuff (and we know creation of stuff suddenly started at a point).

Well, if nothingness cannot exist and has never existed, then there is no talk of the universe arising from nothing. It would have arisen all by itself from the near nothing that was there.

Cogito, while useful, is obviously faulty. Describe the "I" doing the thinking. You can't. (I came up with that one all by myself). It's only attribute is thinking. Therefore thinking exists - that's the only thing we can be sure about. So no one can come and tell us nothing exists - we are 100% sure thinking exists! But that's the only thing we are 100% sure about. Also, as I said earlier, the cogito statement is inherently faulty - you can't say you are trying to prove "I" exists and start the statement with "I" already existing!

DeepSight, LordReed, KnownUnknown, HellVictorinho6, francistown, FxMasterz, jaephoenix, maynman, hopefullandlord

Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by PoliteActivist: 8:19am On Feb 17
WHO CARES TO READ THIS MAY LEARN SOMETHING

Case For Spirit Release Therapy
By Dr. Alan Sanderson
Spirit possession, according to contemporary science, is impossible, an outworn concept, of interest only to historians and anthropologists. Yet, here in 21st century, two psychiatrists are this evening* suggesting that spirit attachment, as it is now called, may actually be a common and an eminently treatable phenomenon. So what is going on?
I can best respond by telling how I came to involve myself in the subject.
Since I qualified as a doctor nearly fifty years ago, there have been tremendous advances in the practice of medicine. Every branch of medicine has been transformed - every branch, that is, except psychiatry. While there have been advances from improvements in drugs and the development of cognitive psychotherapy, the chief benefits have come from changes in the organisation and delivery of the service. Our understanding of the nature and causes of emotional disorder has advanced scarcely at all. The problems posed by people cutting themselves, abusing drugs and alcohol, suffering periods of depression or experiencing bizarre thoughts and behaviour, seem as great as ever, and we remain in almost total ignorance of the underlying causes. The biological approach, which a century ago appeared to hold out such hope for psychiatry, has run out of steam. Yet, because this remains the only scientifically ‘respectable’ approach, nothing new is being tried. Where should one look? I suggest that to look productively, we make a 180-degree turn, stand on our heads and scan a new vista!
In 1992 I met a hypnotherapist who spoke persuasively about spirit possession and its treatment by hypnosis. He gave me a little book, ‘The Unquiet Dead’, by an American psychologist, Edith Fiore , which describes her pioneering hypnotherapeutic work:
With the patient in trance, what appeared to be attached spirits were able to use the patient’s voice. Through honest negotiation, Fiore helped them to leave. My hypnotherapist acquaintance gave a convincing demonstration with one of my seriously ill patients. I was impressed. I decided to train in hypnosis and to learn spirit
release therapy from Dr. William Baldwin . My training and practice soon convinced me that, whether or not one accepts the theoretical basis, spirit release is a quick and effective therapy.

For some years I used spirit release therapy in the (Public) Health Service, but, as you can imagine, there were problems in using such an approach in the public service. Since leaving the Health Service in 1997 I have been working privately. I have treated hundreds of cases and I can say that spirit attachment, as it is now called, is a common condition for which, in many cases, there is an effective and safe treatment.
Cases speak louder than any argument, but first, here are some clarifying points, seven in all, for your consideration:

1. I believe that consciousness is a phenomenon in its own right and is not simply the result of brain activity. While it is true that during bodily life, consciousness is closely linked with brain activity and largely dependent upon brain function, there are many observations which
support the belief that consciousness survives bodily death and that during life it may, on occasion, operate independently. Examples are: near-death experiences, remote viewing, verifiable recollections of previous lives, mediumistic phenomena, the occurrence of unlearned language, and, of course, spirit attachment. The established scientific view that consciousness is a by-product of brain activity has had the effect of imposing a selective blindness on our thinking. Scientists don’t see the phenomena that everywhere challenge their paradigm, because the paradigm cannot contain them. Theory dictates focus, and focus dictates experience. Scientists have become as opinionated as the churchmen who refused to use Galileo’s telescope. The limitation on our worldview that this blindness imposes is depriving many areas, especially in complementary medicine, of the recognition and the funding that they deserve. Let us stay with this point; it is so important. Demonstrated. No one would suggest that he did wrong to pre-empt the proof. Spirits, we shall be told, are in a different category; accept them as a possibility and we would undermine the credibility of the accepted scientific paradigm. So what? Every scientific theory eventually outlives its usefulness. The many challenging observations mentioned above cry out for its revision. Must we for ever bow down before the questionable belief that the brain causes consciousness?

2. Reincarnation is another vital concept and a tenet of many world religions, particularly Buddhism and Hinduism. Excluded by the Christian Church at the Conference of Nicea in the 4th century, reincarnation is the dynamic structure that gives meaning to human life and experience.

3. What happens after the death of the physical body is crucial. Normally the soul goes to the Light and enters the spirit world proper. Not always, for it can stay on the earth plane, a misfortune for which there are many reasons. It may then attach to other human beings or to locations.

4. Such attached spirits may cause difficulties and ill health to those affected.

5. Spirit release can be achieved in many ways. Exorcism, practised as a religious rite, is the traditional method. Secular treatments are replacing exorcism and are ever more widely practised. Spirits are viewed not as evil, but as misguided and are offered compassionate help. There are two basic approaches, the Intuitive, which requires psychic awareness in the therapist, and the Interactive, in which the therapist helps the patient into an altered state of consciousness and then dialogues with the attached spirit, which uses the patient’s vocal apparatus to respond.

6. Spirit release has two aims: firstly, that the spirit must go safely to the Light; it is not enough simply to get rid of it. Secondly, the patient requires comprehensive healing.

7. That these aims can only be successfully achieved through the assistance of unseen spiritual help is acknowledged by all who do this work.

DeepSight, LordReed, KnownUnknown, HellVictorinho6, francistown, FxMasterz, jaephoenix, maynman, hopefullandlord

Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by FxMasterz: 10:35am On Feb 17
PoliteActivist:


Thanks for the lengthy write-up.
Well, they'll ask you, so God doesn't destroy those who insult him because he is good, soo why doesn't Satan destroy those who insult him? Especially as he is god of this word and heavenly God has to be invited and can't intrude. They'll also say you paint God as being rather weak compared to God of OT.
Also God sees babies who'd be armed robbers and destroys them while saving those who'd help the world. Well they'd ask you who made them to be armed robbers and also why would God want to save those who'd help Satan's world.
About death. in the OT God punished people by shortening their lives and rewarded them by adding years, after which they were "gathered to their fathers." No inkling of death being a good thing. Even Lord Jesus never rejoiced at anybody dying and even wept when Lazarus died.
About suffering of the Jews, they'd ask you why the disciples who killed nobody suffered worse


Well, some of the questions are actually misplaced because they are the wrong questions asked in ignorance. I correct the questions by providing more clarify as I proceed.

Question 1
Well, they'll ask you, so God doesn't destroy those who insult him because he is good, soo why doesn't Satan destroy those who insult him?

Answer
For clarity, God is long-suffering and would wait really long for the individual to repent before he or she is judged. He doesn't judge the individual out of hatred but for Justice. God loves man but hates the sins man commits. The insulter of God would still be destroyed when his cup is full. But God would wait very long for him.

Satan destroys those who insult him but he doesn't have the ultimate power to do so. He is a created being. He has no absolute power over man who is another created being like himself. If Satan would destroy someone, he'll first look for legal loopholes in the person's life, and then carry out the destruction by proxy.

...Especially as he is god of this word and heavenly God has to be invited and can't intrude.

For more clarity, Satan is the god of this world. He controls the affairs of the world, particularly its administration. Satan still has his limits in the life of man. He owns the world but he doesn't own man. I can own a house without owning the properties inside the house. You get the logic?A man must give himself out to Satan before Satan can claim ownership of the man and enter his life as he pleases. Men often hand over their lives to Satan through occultism. Satan can't destroy a man at will. Such an operation follows some rules.

Question 2
They'll also say you paint God as being rather weak compared to God of OT.

Answer
I think they ignorantly consider God in the Old Testament as wicked. They need some clarifications about that beyond the scope of this discourse. However, let me state here that God is extremely just, and what you see of God in the Bible are the results of His perfect justice. His methods of bringing justice in the Old Testament is different from that of the New because God divided time into 2 dispensations. Each dispensation has its purpose. We can't go into these in details but very briefly,

1. God in the Old Testament was showing man that He loves man especially those who do righteousness. God never destroys or bring evil on righteous people.

2. God in the Old Testament showed us that sin has SEVERE consequences. Even a nation or man that God so much loves is not spared the consequences of sin. God will severely judge sin, no matter who committed it. The judgement can be gruesome but it's part of Justice. God is a Judge. You don't call a judge a wicked man for sentencing a murderer to death, do you?

3. In the Old testament, God wanted man to see that the ability for him to do righteousness is zero. Man will still commit sin even in the midst of stringent laws that have grievous consequences. Consequences don't deter man. Man is helpless before sin because he has a sin nature from the Adamic fall. Man needs help. This is clearly demonstrated in the Old Testament.

4. In the new testament, after God has demonstrated the weakness of man and his need for a helper to overcome sin, God brought in Grace. Jesus the sinless man has to stand in the gap between God and man, and bear responsibility for man's sins since man cannot do without sinning. Man was not created that way. The inherent ability of Man to sin was given to him through the spirit of disobedience that Adam received when he ate the forbidden fruit. Man cannot do without sinning, hence, Jesus to the rescue. By Jesus, man can no longer face the consequences of his own sin because Christ paid for him. He then empowers man to live righteously through the help of the Holy Ghost.

The bottomline of it all is that, in the final judgement, man wouldn't have an excuse. There's no one judged to spend eternity in hell who'll be accusing God in his mind of being unjust or of not being given all opportunities to live righteously.

i. The Old testament man may say, "God knows we're weak when it comes to sin, yet he inputs our sins upon us whereas He knows that we do not have the ability to do righteousness." God would show old testament man the new testament people upon whom sin was not imputed but still rejected the offer and refused to embrace God's provision for righteousness. God needs righteousness in man for Him to relate with man. Man was created purposely for relationship and fellowship with God. God cannot ignore sin.

Ii. The new testament men might say, "Oh, we would have been more serious about righteousness if God has given us stringent laws with grievous consequences to deter us from sin." God would show them the new testament men who kept sinning and kept facing consequences without any restraint.

God is so just that even after judging you, He wants you to know that you're truly guilty of your sin, and your judgement is well deserved. Man wouldn't be able to blame God for the final state of his own soul. He'll know for certain that he got there by the choices he made. God cannot be blamed.

Question 3
Also God sees babies who'd be armed robbers and destroys them while saving those who'd help the world. Well they'd ask you who made them to be armed robbers and also why would God want to save those who'd help Satan's world.

Answer
God doesn't make anyone armed robbers or pastors. Everyone becomes who he or she becomes by the choices he or she makes from time to time. God can direct a man's life to become an Engineer, a Doctor or a Pastor but the person may choose instead to become an armed robber or a kidnapper. It's the person's choice. God never created man as zombies who do things by being programmed to do it. Man does things by making the choices to do them. That's why man would be fully responsible for his own actions. God can see the future choices a baby would make.

By sparing a baby who'll bless the world in future, God is not preserving those who'll help Satan's world but rather, He's preserving those who'll DISRUPT Satan's activities in the world. Satan wants full scale evil and wickedness all over the world. God raises people who restraints him. People who'll do some disruptive good in the midst of a wicked world. Otherwise, the world would have been so unbearable to dwell in.

Also, it is wrong to say God destroyed the babies who'll be future Evils. Destruction comes from 4 sources: God, Man, Satan and Nature.

When there's a natural disaster, a man or a baby could be caught up if he or she has no defence. It's wrong to think God destroyed somebody because he fell victim of a mishap. Let me explain with a real life example.

When I was in Ilorin in 2016. A member of our church testified of how his daughter was miraculously saved from death. He said during the weak, their first born daughter, about 9yrs at the time was busy in the kitchen while the rest of the family were in the sitting room. The girl just left the kitchen suddenly and walked aimlessly into the parlor. The kitchen was somehow detached from the main building. You know those types of old houses. As soon as the girl stepped into the sitting room, they heard a loud noise coming from outside. When they went to check it out, the kitchen roof had given way and had collapsed into the kitchen. If the girl had remained there at the time, no doubt, she won't make it alive. This is a clear demonstration of the defense we all have. A Godless person is actually defenceless. His defences are removed. He is bare and spiritually vulnerable. However, Satan does not usually attack those because they're like pets in a cage that could could be taken out at anytime. They don't bear any threat to Satan, so they might even live peaceful lives until Satan is ready to take them out or a natural disaster befalls them. Anything can happen to them at any time. A Godly person is often seen as a threat to Satan , so attacks against him never stops. However,che has a defence. He can fall a victim of mishap if he chooses to be ignorant of his rights in God or fails to cultivate his ability to listen to his inner witness and hear God's instructions. Sometimes, the instruction might be to get off a bus 'A' ready to travel and enter into another empty bus 'B' awaiting passengers to travel. Such an instruction can save a man's life as the bus 'A' may never reach its destination. This explains one of the many reasons why on some occasions, godly people may be involved in calamities. Disobedience to instructions or inability to hear the voice of God. The very lack of spiritual sensitivity is the major reason why some righteous people suffer. This also couples with the lack of knowledge for many.

So mishaps can happen to people from either of 4 sources but a defended person is hardly caught up in them.

Question 4

About death. in the OT God punished people by shortening their lives and rewarded them by adding years, after which they were "gathered to their fathers." No inkling of death being a good thing. Even Lord Jesus never rejoiced at anybody dying and even wept when Lazarus died.

Answer
I never said death is a good thing from any man's perspective. That's only from God's perspective. God wants us to come home and be with Him which means death, but He also recognizes that we desire long life here on earth. He gives that desire as a reward to good people or even as an expanded opportunity for a sinner or a wicked man to repent. He can however shorten the life of a righteous man in love, if He finds that the righteous man would soon make wrong choices in life that would erode his righteousness. King Hezekiah of Judah is a case study in this regard. Also, the Bible makes us to know that God does take away righteous men before the evil days come.

The Lord Jesus did weep for Lazarus because He was clothed with man's flesh and had the feelings of a man. He saw the emotions of Mary and Martha, and how sorely embittered they were in their souls. He was moved to compassion, not because He couldn't raise Lazarus or because He thought Lazarus was in some evil state. The dejected states of Lazarus' sisters was what moved Jesus. He knew before getting there that Lazarus was dead but He didn't weep until He saw Mary. God doesn't see death as an evil. A homecoming is not evil in anyway. He can use it as a punishment for wickedness by depriving the wicked man his most intense longing - long life. Death itself is not the punishment in this case but the cutting off of the man's desire. Like in the example I gave in my previous post. In reverse, the friends and relations around your loved one who travelled abroad might weep and start missing him or her when returning back home to you. Meanwhile, you are here rejoicing and eagerly waiting to receive the person. That's how the issue of death is between God and man. But to punish wickedness, God can cut take away the wicked man's desire for life. To reward righteousness, God can prolong a man's days by fulfilling his desire to live long. "DESIRE" is the major word here. "The expectations of the wicked shall be cut off."

Question 5
About suffering of the Jews, they'd ask you why the disciples who killed nobody suffered worse.

Answer
This is supposed to be a very lengthy answer but I'll try as much as possible to be brief.

The disciples actually had a special case which God never explained. In 1 Corinthians 4, Paul said God had deliberately set it so for the apostles. However,it should interest you to know that the disciples themselves were fully aware that they would suffer martyrdom from the very beginning of their walks with God. Jesus Christ clearly told them without mincing words, and they fully embraced it with joy. Infact they eagerly awaited such a time when they'll offer their own lives. Not only that, they always had a pre-knowledge of the death they were about to die.

For example, when the two sons of Zebedee came asking Jesus to grant them special seats and positions in His eternal kingdom, Jesus asked them if they can partake of the cup He was about to drink. That cup was the crucifixion on the cross. The two guys responded in the affirmative. Jesus told them that they'll certainly drink. That's to say, they'll suffer martyrdom, but the right to sit in special places in His kingdom is already pre-ordained. All the disciples who suffered martyrdom knew they would. As the day approached, they had the pre-knowledge. They joyfully embraced it. Let's hear from Peter and Paul:

2 Peter 1:13
I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14 because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things"

Peter wrote this shortly before his martyrdom. He said the Lord Jesus made it clear to him. And he was very willing to give his life.

Let's hear Paul too.

2 Timothy 4:6-8

"6 For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."

Paul knew very clearly that he was about to be martyred. He also embraced it with joy. All martyrs actually had a pre knowledge, both the direct disciples of Christ and all matyrs through church history. You can even read about the matyredom of Polycarp and several other matyre.

They were always given two choices by their executors, either to recant and live or to continue professing Jesus and die. They all chose death. Why? Maybe we can get some clues from the response of Polycarp when he was asked to recant and deny Jesus:

"Eighty and six years I have served Him, and He has done me no wrong."

Meanwhile, he was pre-informed by Jesus that he would be burnt alive.

Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Image123(m): 12:49pm On Feb 17
FRANCISTOWN:


I didn't mention you for a contribution. What possibly do you guys have to gainsay me?

It was only a reference. I hope this makes you feel better

So you mentioned me to preach to me. Lolz. You think God revolves around your world ba? God watched His own Son die, go figure.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Image123(m): 12:51pm On Feb 17
HellVictorinho6:


Send me 5k

I cant bear it again


Am fed up

Ahhh, Victor you have not come out of this chronic begging still? May God have mercy on you oh.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Dtruthspeaker: 1:00pm On Feb 17
DeepSight:


Difficult not to concur. Indeed I have often said that whatever entities are responsible for the existence of this world, they must likely be sadistic entities.

Have a look at this -

https://www.nairaland.com/7012877/sadistic-nature-earth-life

The earth is not full of sadness but of joy. But maybe because you are cursed to live in darkness is why you think the whole earth is dark.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by DeepSight(m): 1:12pm On Feb 17
Dtruthspeaker:


The earth is not full of sadness but of joy. But maybe because you are cursed to live in darkness is why you think the whole earth is dark.

I am not cursed to live in darkness. You are simply blind to both world history and current affairs.
Also you are ignorant of the brutal workings of nature and the wild.
Re: Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * by Aemmyjah(m): 1:21pm On Feb 17
FRANCISTOWN:


Lol! I'm childish because I refused to be conformed with evil? What a play.🤣🤣🤣

There is no answer anyone wants to give that we've not heared countless of them.

It's either:
•God was more interested in their souls than their bodies thus prepared he them for eternal life. Eternal life my ass. Eternal life that there is no proof of. They, not considering that there might actually be very wicked people amongst those who died.
I doubt if they'd be exonerated of their guilts just because they died by Hitler.

•Or God knows the best.

Evil is actually evil.
Incapability is actually incapability.

There is no justification for an omnipotent god to open his eyes and watch as bandits attack his children in his own house without doing shit about it.
Even your bible says , only a stronger man can rob a strong man. He first ties him up and robs him with his eyes wide open.
The same with armed robbers, their arms make them stronger.
Should we agree that the bandits are stronger than your god, that's the reason he can't do anything with his eyes wide open?
Could it be that he doesn't even have eyes?
Could it be that he doesn't even have ears?
Could he be that he is not omnipotent after all?
I get it, it's simply because he doesn't exist.

I'm not sure I'd have the power to protect my kids and I'll do nothing, unless I'm mad.

An Omnipotent god is watching a kid being molested and at a snap of his fingers, the molester can vanish or petrify. Yet he doesn't do shit and just enjoy the show.

There is no justification under the skies that can absorb such level of foolishness, wickedness, immorality and irresponsibility of a self caused God. (Thinking about this I'm getting angry self).

Lemme share this with you, in the author's words:

"The story goes like this: in kidnapping 5–6 year old boys, and then raping and torturing them to death on video, which was then sold to wealthy businessmen around the world.

At the time, I remember reading that when the Russian policemen and soldiers busted the place, they couldn’t help but cry because of what they saw.

As I prayed, and read the Bible, and contemplated the horseshit within it, one inescapable conclusion kept popping up in my mind that while those little boys were being tortured and were dying in an unimaginable way, this Christian god was present in that same room, had the power to stop it, and didn’t.

We always hear that pedophiles do not survive long in prisons because even the worst offenders we have - rapists and murderers, do not tolerate pedophiles. They kill them because even the worst we have understand that a pedophile is the lowest of the low, violating the innocence. Yet omnipresent, omnipotent god knew from the beginning of time that these boys would suffer this fate, was present in the room while it was happening, and did nothing. I could never reconcile that with what the Bible taught."


1. Even the policemen who raided the place couldn't help at the sight of that kind of horror. They were sad to their souls that they shed hot, bitter tears. Yet, a supposed omnipotent, omnipresent god couldn't do anything about it. Imagine how many kids have been molested, killed (I can't even talk about it because it's too terrible to imagine)

2. @The second emboldened. Even rapists, murderers and other hardened criminals cannot tolerate pedophiles, yet a supposed god would rather enjoy the show. Does that make any sense to you?

That's the reason I said, none of the supreme beings being worshipped in every religion on earth fits into what can be called a "God". They fit more into a "Demon". Even demons if they existed can never be that wicked and irresponsible. The ideology of a "God" is very stupid and imbecilic.

The Muslim guys are way smarter, that's the reason they call their supposed "God" Allah. They knew the characteristics of Allah does not fit into what is supposed to be called a "God".
Yahweh doesn't even come close. If he existed, he would effortlessly pass the interview to being a demon(a very wicked one at that).

Do you still want me to ask questions? Then I'd be a very stupid, wicked, demented earthly bastard to tryna find a way around this abominable act of outlandish wickedness.

If yourself, PoliteActivist, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, MaxInDHouse, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022 and several others are cool with this supposed "God"? Your wickedness must be out of this world.







I once felt the same way
I looked up to the heavens one night with tears in my eyes and called God wicked, undeserving of worship
I regret all that now cos I was ignorant, misinformed and knew nothing until I found the truth which I humbly searched for

It's like a child who has a loving grandparent. He is visiting the village alone and told them he's coming and they prepare to welcome him from his long journey. Everything was prepared and they go to attend a town hall meeting and drop a note they'll meet him after the meeting

The child arrives tired and hungry and see no food, no water, nothing, his room he was to stay was empty with no mattress or anything and it's smelly. The child concludes that his grandparent are very unloving and uncaring and hate him. He returns back to the city swearing never to visit then again.
It's quite easier to conclude that the parents were not caring and did that deliberately to frustrate the child. Is that really the case?
If that child were your own child and tells you what he saw and neighbors are angry with your parents (his grandparents), Will you conclude that your parents were uncaring or you kindly sympathize with you cos you know your own parents can never do that. You know your parents and may likely have answers as to why all that happened. Will you allow your child to make conclusions about your parents based on what happened to him and the negative stories he's hearing from others about your parents?

You sir are exactly like that child
Will you continue to grow in resentment towards your creator?
All these things you wrote shows you have a sense of justice ans love humanity. That's commendable. Many do not care. Why not find answers as to why God allows all these ills to happen? He is not the cause of our problems
Seek answers and you'll be happy instead of listening to your faulty thinking and atheist. If the child is reasonable, he'll listen to reasons what may have happened and adjust his thinking and even appreciate his grandparents more. If the child is stupid, he'll continue to hold grudge against his grandparents and allow his feeble mind to deceive him and bad neighbors. Your grandparents don't even need explain themselves to him as if he's their mate but they could do so. Jehovah God himself has explained why we face all these things


I found the answers to my question and my conclusions - God loves us more than we love ourselves. He's the best father we could ever have
Enjoy your weekend

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