Embiid wins scoring title

felix00:


Hmm. It's looking like Ben Simmons might return for the play off
Ben Simmons being available should limit Taytum to an extent

So Simmons in his first game will be expected to check Tatum 1v1 Barbecue chicken alert

A40:
I don't understand anyone would be scared of that Brooklyn Nets team. They can't guard nobody. Steve Nash's coaching is dodgy.

It's the offensive prowess of the Nets that's scary....

felix00:


Hmm. It's looking like Ben Simmons might return for the play off
Ben Simmons being available should limit Taytum to an extent

Shams and Woj just confirmed Simmons will return during the first round of the play offs

I have a question about hand checking? Every time someone brings up the softness of today's nba's defense they more often than not claim that hand checking would have slowed so and so down. Going back and watching some of the 90s and 80s basketball games/highlights, I have noticed that hand checking is done to a player who is posting up, most PGs in those days initiated a lot of sets with their backs facing the basket.
So my question is how do you hand check a guy who is playing you face up, the game now has all the best players playing facing the baskets from the PGs to even the big men, so can someone please explain how handchecking would work in today's game when for example Giannis is running at you at top speed and getting from mid court to the rim with just one dribble.

Khanben:
I have a question about hand checking? Every time someone brings up the softness of today's nba's defense they more often than not claim that hand checking would have slowed so and so down. Going back and watching some of the 90s and 80s basketball games/highlights, I have noticed that hand checking is done to a player who is posting up, most PGs in those days initiated a lot of sets with their backs facing the basket.
So my question is how do you hand check a guy who is playing you face up, the game now has all the best players playing facing the baskets from the PGs to even the big men, so can someone please explain how handchecking would work in today's game when for example Giannis is running at you at top speed and getting from mid court to the rim with just one dribble.

You must be misconstruing the hand check. During the era you are alluding to, opposing players could use their hands to hold or check the body of the attacking players either in an attempt to steal the ball or disrupt the flow/ bounce of the player. They could close the space between them and the offensive players and still keep their hands on the body of the offensive player. Many also used the hand check to measure the distance between the attacking player and the opposing player with many ending inside the body of the attacking player.

Over time, it evolved into quick intermittent touches to the body of the attacking player, including positions where they face each other with the aim of slowing the player or winning the ball off the player. When an attacking player dribbled the ball, it was legal for me to keep sustained hand check on the opposing player in an attempt to steal, now, it is illegal to have any body contact worth more sustained hand contact.

When a defending players can use their hands to make extended contact on the opposing player, it slows the attacking player and increases the degree of difficulty to drive to the bucket or spot up to take a jumper. With the hand check there was no space between the player bouncing the ball and the defender. It was legal for the defending player to pressure into the body of the player bringing the ball up or bouncing the ball. This is another reason why centers thrived during that era. They could back the opposing player who is making repeated attempts with their hands to either steal the ball or flat out move the player away from the paint. Now, it wasn’t pretty because it was physical and slowed the game but it buttresses the degree of difficulty that era played in.

Today, you can’t even make any contact with an offensive player on any part of the court. Offensive players can stop and jump from anywhere. They can walk the ball up and expect the opposing player to respect their space which means they can get into shooting motions almost immediately. Defending players are now left with just raising their hands and still hope they don’t get called for even staying straight. Remember, it wasn’t until this season that the NBA erased fouls initiated by offensive players. For decades we watched offensive players invade the space created and still get fouls.

Roland17:


You must be misconstruing the hand check. During the era you are alluding to, opposing players could use their hands to hold or check the body of the attacking players either in an attempt to steal the ball or disrupt the flow/ bounce of the player. They could close the space between them and the offensive players and still keep their hands on the body of the offensive player. Many also used the hand check to measure the distance between the attacking player and the opposing player with many ending inside the body of the attacking player.

Over time, it evolved into quick intermittent touches to the body of the attacking player, including positions where they face each other with the aim of slowing the player or winning the ball off the player. When an attacking player dribbled the ball, it was legal for me to keep sustained hand check on the opposing player in an attempt to steal, now, it is illegal to have any body contact worth more sustained hand contact.

When a defending players can use their hands to make extended contact on the opposing player, it slows the attacking player and increases the degree of difficulty to drive to the bucket or spot up to take a jumper. With the hand check there was no space between the player bouncing the ball and the defender. It was legal for the defending player to pressure into the body of the player bringing the ball up or bouncing the ball. This is another reason why centers thrived during that era. They could back the opposing player who is making repeated attempts with their hands to either steal the ball or flat out move the player away from the paint. Now, it wasn’t pretty because it was physical and slowed the game but it buttresses the degree of difficulty that era played in.

Today, you can’t even make any contact with an offensive player on any part of the court. Offensive players can stop and jump from anywhere. They can walk the ball up and expect the opposing player to respect their space which means they can get into shooting motions almost immediately. Defending players are now left with just raising their hands and still hope they don’t get called for even staying straight. Remember, it wasn’t until this season that the NBA erased fouls initiated by offensive players. For decades we watched offensive players invade the space created and still get fouls.

Hand checking as I know it, is when a defender puts his palm on the hip area, or back of the offensive player and uses it, as an extra for want of a better word sensory guide to help predict where the offensive player would go with the ball. The very best even could use it to gradually move an offensive player to where they want the player to go.
Touching a player facing you up has always being a foul as far as I know. Yes you can try stealing the ball or disrupting their handle, but you cannot touch a player who has a dribble and is facing you up.
So,How do you hand check someone facing you? which part of their body can you touch? is it the arms, chest or shoulders? Touching any of the above has always being a foul.

Khanben:


Hand checking as I know it, is when a defender puts his palm on the hip area, or back of the offensive player and uses it, as an extra for want of a better word sensory guide to help predict where the offensive player would go with the ball. The very best even could use it to gradually move an offensive player to where they want the player to go.
Touching a player facing you up has always being a foul as far as I know. Yes you can try stealing the ball or disrupting their handle, but you cannot touch a player who has a dribble and is facing you up.
So,How do you hand check someone facing you? which part of their body can you touch? is it the arms, chest or shoulders? Touching any of the above has always being a foul.

Haha a…Naaaaaa... Your description of hand checking is quite limited to what it is and it’s full extent when it was legal. It was legal in the past to invade the space between the defending player and opposing player facing you and still use your hands on the body of the offensive player in an attempt to win the ball or disrupt the dribble. Today, it is no longer legal as you have to give the offensive player his space and even now his space to land after taking a shot, remember the Kawhi rule?

It was legal to keep your hand for sustained periods on a player who was trying to dribble to the bucket. I could use my hands into his body and try to steal the ball or disrupt. A stop jumper was very difficult to complete because of the hand check versus now when an offensive player can enjoy 0 contact protections while they pull up to take a jumper. When opposing players dribbled I could use my body to stay in touch while using my hands to disrupt.

Simply put, hand checking was all about killing the space and it was done to save the NBA in some ways after the GOAT retired.

Khanben:


Hand checking as I know it, is when a defender puts his palm on the hip area, or back of the offensive player and uses it, as an extra for want of a better word sensory guide to help predict where the offensive player would go with the ball. The very best even could use it to gradually move an offensive player to where they want the player to go.
Touching a player facing you up has always being a foul as far as I know. Yes you can try stealing the ball or disrupting their handle, but you cannot touch a player who has a dribble and is facing you up.
So,How do you hand check someone facing you? which part of their body can you touch? is it the arms, chest or shoulders? Touching any of the above has always being a foul.

They'll do anything to propel MJ as the GOAT. The hand checking rule has been in constant modification since the 90s. This one right here is a modification that was made prior to the 94 season.

And the truth is that hand checking still exists till this day. There are just a few players who take advantage of the rule. Harden comes to mind. Trae Young as well. We see menacing defenders like Pat Bev constantly placing their hands on their opponents to impede them. Avery Bradley, Jrue Holiday, to name a few. Hand checking is still very much alive, most especially in the paint where the ref ignores it most often.

steady986:


They'll do anything to propel MJ as the GOAT. The hand checking rule has been in constant modification since the 90s. This one right here is a modification that was made prior to the 94 season.

I am currently watching a bunch of the sets that the 2014 Spurs ran, and with due respect to anyone's basketball knowledge. I do not for the life of me know how handchecking would have impacted that team, with all their ball movements, swings, cutting and screens.
Another thing, has anyone noticed the amount of staggered screens that as now become a standard fair of most of the very good offenses.

Khanben:


I am currently watching a bunch of the sets that the 2014 Spurs ran, and with due respect to anyone's basketball knowledge. I do not for the life of me know how handchecking would have impacted that team, with all their ball movements, swings, cutting and screens.
Another thing, has anyone noticed the amount of staggered screens that as now become a standard fair of most of the very good offenses.

The one Denver did to my team a few days ago. I just felt weak on my bed. How do you even guard such a play? Jokic had the ball on top of the key and Barton came to set a screen for him. As Barton was rolling away to the 3pt line Jokic set a screen for him. The result was an open 3. Golden State also does so many variation of that set to perfection. Guy, the tactical plays of this era is just unmatched. Coaches and players have a more indepth knowledge of the game.

Frank Vogel has been dismissed as the head coach of the LA Lakers.

aliondo:


It's the offensive prowess of the Nets that's scary....

the rim gets tighter come playoffs.

Roland17:
Frank Vogel has been dismissed as the head coach of the LA Lakers.

lol, even vogel saw this coming. I hope they give fizdale a chance!

steady986:


The one Denver did to my team a few days ago. I just felt weak on my bed. How do you even guard such a play? Jokic had the ball on top of the key and Barton came to set a screen for him. As Barton was rolling away to the 3pt line Jokic set a screen for him. The result was an open 3. Golden State also does so many variation of that set to perfection. Guy, the tactical plays of this era is just unmatched. Coaches and players have a more indepth knowledge of the game.

Yup. Old timers who are bluntly honest say the same thing. Thats why I like Isaiah Thomas, says the truth even if it diminishes his generation a bit. The kinds of things Tim Duncan did, we are seeing 3 or 4, maybe 5 big men in the league do it on a nightly basis. Granted we dont have all the WWF fouls and thugs like Oakley, but this is a very skilled and professional league. The CBA just needs to adjust to weed out the softies.

Yeah Rockets are competing for last place and LeKing don turn to papa smurf, but man, I cant wait to watch these playoffs. Waaaaay too many stars to watch.

steady986:


The one Denver did to my team a few days ago. I just felt weak on my bed. How do you even guard such a play? Jokic had the ball on top of the key and Barton came to set a screen for him. As Barton was rolling away to the 3pt line Jokic set a screen for him. The result was an open 3. Golden State also does so many variation of that set to perfection. Guy, the tactical plays of this era is just unmatched. Coaches and players have a more indepth knowledge of the game.

That's thing, the level of offensive evolution in the last decade has been incredible. Most people just say the 3 ball is prevalent, without looking at the ways sets are scripted to get guys open looks. There is a reason why almost every game now has open shots numbering in their 20s or 30s depending on the team playing.

birdman:


Yup. Old timers who are bluntly honest say the same thing. Thats why I like Isaiah Thomas, says the truth even if it diminishes his generation a bit. The kinds of things Tim Duncan did, we are seeing 3 or 4, maybe 5 big men in the league do it on a nightly basis. Granted we dont have all the WWF fouls and thugs like Oakley, but this is a very skilled and professional league. The CBA just needs to adjust to weed out the softies.

Yeah Rockets are competing for last place and LeKing don turn to papa smurf, but man, I cant wait to watch these playoffs. Waaaaay too many stars to watch.

I remember Kenny on TNT, saying something about when they played, very few players worked out in the offseason. Nowadays most of the players treat it like a year round job. Including offseason workouts and skill development/improvements. IMHO, the salary for the average player has contributed to this because almost all of them can afford either individually or as a group to hire a team to help them take care of their body and improve the game all year round.

birdman:


lol, even vogel saw this coming. I hope they give fizdale a chance!

To be honest, the way the Lakers have managed the news of Vogel's firing is disrespectful. From my knowledge, the Lakers have not had a meeting with Vogel about this firing. Vogel deserves more respect and is taking the burden as the fall guy. How much of Vogel's firing resolves the Laker's problem? I don't know but I think he lost the locker room and the respect of the players.

I can't believe any coach worth his salt would come to coach this Lakers team. Just look at AD and Lebron. Compare how they batted for Vogel to how Jordan did with Phil Jackson

birdman:


Yup. Old timers who are bluntly honest say the same thing. Thats why I like Isaiah Thomas, says the truth even if it diminishes his generation a bit. The kinds of things Tim Duncan did, we are seeing 3 or 4, maybe 5 big men in the league do it on a nightly basis. Granted we dont have all the WWF fouls and thugs like Oakley, but this is a very skilled and professional league. The CBA just needs to adjust to weed out the softies.

Yeah Rockets are competing for last place and LeKing don turn to papa smurf, but man, I cant wait to watch these playoffs. Waaaaay too many stars to watch.

There are 3,4 5 big men doing what Tim Duncan did??

Why stop at 5 why not 50. So you're saying there are 5 bigs in today's league as good as Tim Duncan. Smh

Khanben:



I remember Kenny on TNT, saying something about when they played, very few players worked out in the offseason. Nowadays most of the players treat it like a year round job. Including offseason workouts and skill development/improvements. IMHO, the salary for the average player has contributed to this because almost all of them can afford either individually or as a group to hire a team to help them take care of their body and improve the game all year round.

There is a reason injuries and load management is at an all time high. Let me tell you a secret about the body. Sometimes you allow it rest, cos all that offseason working out takes a toll.

Go and ask the average paying NBA fan whose favorite player misses 15-20 games on average how they feel about this so called taking care of their body business.

There is nobody in the top 5 scoring title list that didn't miss at least 15 games

And as for this improve game all year round cap. Is it the same league I'm watching with Brick Ross and Russell Westbrook? Where is the improvement please? Who is improving at what?

Khanben:


His in play adjustments consists of two things,
1) play Kyrie for 40+mins
2)play KD for the whole game and only rest him during timeouts

He is proof that you can be a HOF PG and still be clueless about coaching

felix00:


Hmm. It's looking like Ben Simmons might return for the play off
Ben Simmons being available should limit Taytum to an extent

You're banking on Ben Simmons to perform under playoff pressure? Someone that has not played competitive basketball in 10 months

aliondo:


It's the offensive prowess of the Nets that's scary....

They will have to show it every night cause their defense is worse than last season's

Roland17:


You must be misconstruing the hand check. During the era you are alluding to, opposing players could use their hands to hold or check the body of the attacking players either in an attempt to steal the ball or disrupt the flow/ bounce of the player. They could close the space between them and the offensive players and still keep their hands on the body of the offensive player. Many also used the hand check to measure the distance between the attacking player and the opposing player with many ending inside the body of the attacking player.

Over time, it evolved into quick intermittent touches to the body of the attacking player, including positions where they face each other with the aim of slowing the player or winning the ball off the player. When an attacking player dribbled the ball, it was legal for me to keep sustained hand check on the opposing player in an attempt to steal, now, it is illegal to have any body contact worth more sustained hand contact.

When a defending players can use their hands to make extended contact on the opposing player, it slows the attacking player and increases the degree of difficulty to drive to the bucket or spot up to take a jumper. With the hand check there was no space between the player bouncing the ball and the defender. It was legal for the defending player to pressure into the body of the player bringing the ball up or bouncing the ball. This is another reason why centers thrived during that era. They could back the opposing player who is making repeated attempts with their hands to either steal the ball or flat out move the player away from the paint. Now, it wasn’t pretty because it was physical and slowed the game but it buttresses the degree of difficulty that era played in.

Today, you can’t even make any contact with an offensive player on any part of the court. Offensive players can stop and jump from anywhere. They can walk the ball up and expect the opposing player to respect their space which means they can get into shooting motions almost immediately. Defending players are now left with just raising their hands and still hope they don’t get called for even staying straight. Remember, it wasn’t until this season that the NBA erased fouls initiated by offensive players. For decades we watched offensive players invade the space created and still get fouls.

It's why I can't help but wonder how guys like Luka, Brick Ross and maybe to a lesser extent Trae Young would have thrived in that era. They would have had to evolve their game for sure.

A40:
There is a reason injuries and load management is at an all time high. Let me tell you a secret about the body. Sometimes you allow it rest, cos all that offseason working out takes a toll.

Go and ask the average paying NBA fan whose favorite player misses 15-20 games on average how they feel about this so called taking care of their body business.

There is nobody in the top 5 scoring title list that didn't miss at least 15 games

And as for this improve game all year round cap. Is it the same league I'm watching with Brick Ross and Russell Westbrook? Where is the improvement please? Who is improving at what?

Jkidd spent decades in the league and could not shoot, same Roy Strickland.
Hell Russell Westbrook shooting percentage year by year is no different from that of Gary Payton, Grant Hill, Penny etc. Nobody ever shouts from the roof tops that they could not shoot. I can go on and on about stars that were not good shooter who made their living from attacking the rim, which is exactly what Russell is

A40:
It's why I can't help but wonder how guys like Luka, Brick Ross and maybe to a lesser extent Trae Young would have thrived in that era. They would have had to evolve their game for sure.

Hand checking only worked in that era because a large percentage of half courts sets in those days was initiated by a player with his back to the basket, both from the low to even PGs.
In those days, only short guards were confident enough in their handle to face up a defender, Penny was the first big guy who was confident in his handle enough to face up any player.
These days all star players under 6ft10 can face up anybody man to man anyway anytime

Khanben:



Jkidd spent decades in the league and could not shoot, same Roy Strickland.
Hell Russell Westbrook shooting percentage year by year is no different from that of Gary Payton, Grant Hill, Penny etc. Nobody ever shouts from the roof tops that they could not shoot. I can go on and on about stars that were not good shooter who made their living from attacking the rim, which is exactly what Russell is

Naah. Westbrook is a historically bad shooter. Even for that era Payton was a much better shooter than Russ

Anyway I'm not referring to their athleticism. Athleticism is a gift not a skill. You said these players are doing skill improvement and menenemenene so I'm asking you what are the improvements you are seeing from the guys I mentioned on a season by season basis.

The likes of Penny, Kidd, Strickland were true PGs and facilitators not these guys masquerading as PGs now by virtue of height. Their teams did not rely on them for scoring

Khanben:


Hand checking only worked in that era because a large percentage of half courts sets in those days was initiated by a player with his back to the basket, both from the low to even PGs.
In those days, only short guards were confident enough in their handle to face up a defender, Penny was the first big guy who was confident in his handle enough to face up any player.
These days all star players under 6ft10 can face up anybody man to man anyway anytime

Size will not matter when a defender is able to encroach your space my guy.

A40:
Size will not matter when a defender is able to encroach your space my guy.

Why do no one encroach on magic

A40:
Naah. Westbrook is a historically bad shooter. Even for that era Payton was a much better shooter than Russ

Anyway I'm not referring to their athleticism. Athleticism is a gift not a skill. You said these players are doing skill improvement and menenemenene so I'm asking you what are the improvements you are seeing from the guys I mentioned on a season by season basis.

The likes of Penny, Kidd, Strickland were true PGs and facilitators not these guys masquerading as PGs now by virtue of height. Their teams did not rely on them for scoring

None of the guys you just listed are better than Luka or Lebron at playing PG.