montelik: Jones is not a central midfielder, he has been played mostly as destroyer/marauder. Mostly to disrupt the opposition, he has only one responsibility which is incredibly simplistic. There are only certain types of games he can be useful in. He basically doing what the likes of Quinton Fortune, Phil Neville, Alan Smith, Ronny Johnsen, David May e.t.c have done for us in the past. Notice, no one in their right minds would call any of these players I mentioned a good central midfielder at top levels.

Any one placing hope in Jones is directly and indirectly drawing this team and squad back. He has no future at the position and limited value. Rather than wasting time giving him minutes there, its better to play those who actually can play there and offer more than simply running around like a marauder. It is much better to play Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley, Ando there (even recall Tunniclife, Petrucci and Powell from loan), and give them chance to prove themselves and improve. If they don't, then we know how many what we need to find in the market.

Hell no is playing Jones regularly in midfield going to help this team. See where drafting Giggs into central midfield got us. We have one of the weakest central midfields in Europe, because we failed to truly solve the problem, instead resorting to gimmicks while all the quality was being snapped up by others. Now, not only do we suspect first team central midfielders, our once promising prospects have failed to materialize.

No Jones in central midfield. Unless injuries dictate it, or special occasions. Stop the gimmicks.

This is a very good argument. Plenty of sense. This is a matured way of driving a point home other than saying, 'Jones is a shyte'.

However, I was only talking of a temporal solution or saving ourselves the embarrassment of being made to look like kids in the midfield. We have had Cleverley, Carrick, Fellaini all criticized in the midfield this season. Jones has played more matches than some of the other guys, yet he has got the least criticism. What does that tell you? Jones will also boast that he was in the midifield when United kept a clean sheet against Leverkusen, and we won 5-0.

Last season, Jones was in the heart of our midfield in most of the big matches. He was used to render Fellaini useless in the return leg. For the fact that he gets so much time there tells you the unreliability of the other guys. They dont know what it means to win balls.

I never said his future is the midfield, but in football you can never rule out anything. Mikel was a hole player or AM before Mourinho converted him to a mechanical player. Jones overall team and passing game has improved so much.

But you made solid argument.

elampiro: Where is Coogar sef,

A few weeks ago, you said you will buy me a ram should Rooney get an 80% pass accuracy in a match. I saw somewhere now that he had done 97% this season. In recent matches, his pass accuracy are even beating midfield players.

Redeem your promise now.

I dont usually check for pass accuracy, but I stumbled on a write up now.

elampiro: Where is Coogar sef,

A few weeks ago, you said you will buy me a ram should Rooney get an 80% pass accuracy in a match. I saw somewhere now that he had done 97% this season. In recent matches, his pass accuracy are even beating midfield players.

Redeem your promise now.

I dont usually check for pass accuracy, but I stumbled on a write up now.

coded guy: I swear that evilkagawa na cra.zeman!

elampiro: Where is Coogar sef,

A few weeks ago, you said you will buy me a ram should Rooney get an 80% pass accuracy in a match. I saw somewhere now that he had done 97% this season. In recent matches, his pass accuracy are even beating midfield players.

Redeem your promise now.

I dont usually check for pass accuracy, but I stumbled on a write up now.

coogar:

rooney's overall passing accuracy in the league this season is still below 80%. that write-up you have read is fraudulent.

elrony:
Lol...coogar I wan chop isi-ewu ram peppersoup....better give elamps the ram...

I no fit shout

elampiro:
Our biggest defeat and most embarrassing play this season was 1-4 loss to Man City. Phil Jones was absent. If he had been around and we ended with a draw or a narrow loss or win, some guys would have been betting how the scoreline would have been better with another player taking his place.

If we can not use the ball effectively in the midfield, we shouldn't also let opponents terrorise us there. That is what you get from Jones, and now his overall play looks even better than the rest.

coogar:

if elampiro has any proof, you would expect him to post the fraudulent write-up he read where rooney suddenly posted 97% passing accuracy. rooney with the first toüch of a räpist is too technically crude to keep possession.



this is another dubious attempt to pull wool over the eyes of united fans on this thread. jones has lost us more points in the midfield than any other midfielder we have got. he epitomises what any young midfielder should never aspire to be.

it seems you dunno some of us still have the memory of jones stinking the whole joint with his appalling performance in the midfield. his 25-min mission to stem the tide of our biggest derby defeat was ended in a disaster. he was a substitute DM & we conceded 3 more goals under his watch to hand city 6-1.

jones quickly followed up his show of shame again when his defensive midfielder disgraceful job allowed athletic bilbao to destroy us at old trafford - i won't even talk about his deer in the headlights performance that eliminated us from the champions league group against fc basel in 11/12.

last season was worse, we couldn't beat spurs & west ham as jones produced some of the worst midfield performance in the history of man utd. he was decapitated by chelsea @ old trafford as mata tore him apart....arteta completed the gangräping @ the emirates with jones looking lost & allowing walcott to take the piss @ our defence.

coogar:

rooney's overall passing accuracy in the league this season is still below 80%. that write-up you have read is fraudulent.

elampiro:

First of all, did you promise a ram? in what condition? Hope you have not gone to modify the post.

You promised that you will buy if Rooney post a single pass accuracy of 80 plus, I think.

Moreover, you easily retrieve stat, so why not give us all stat of Rooney's matches this season (all competitions)

coogar:

if elampiro has any proof, you would expect him to post the fraudulent write-up he read where rooney suddenly posted 97% passing accuracy. rooney with the first toüch of a räpist is too technically crude to keep possession.



this is another dubious attempt to pull wool over the eyes of united fans on this thread. jones has lost us more points in the midfield than any other midfielder we have got. he epitomises what any young midfielder should never aspire to be.

it seems you dunno some of us still have the memory of jones stinking the whole joint with his appalling performance in the midfield. his 25-min mission to stem the tide of our biggest derby defeat was ended in a disaster. he was a substitute DM & we conceded 3 more goals under his watch to hand city 6-1.

jones quickly followed up his show of shame again when his defensive midfielder disgraceful job allowed athletic bilbao to destroy us at old trafford - i won't even talk about his deer in the headlights performance that eliminated us from the champions league group against fc basel in 11/12.

last season was worse, we couldn't beat spurs & west ham as jones produced some of the worst midfield performance in the history of man utd. he was decapitated by chelsea @ old trafford as mata tore him apart....arteta completed the gangräping @ the emirates with jones looking lost & allowing walcott to take the piss @ our defence.

coogar:

rooney's overall stat this season is 79% passing accuracy. he's one of our worst passers of the ball. considering the fact he drops deep & plays more in low-pressure zones, it's a disgrace moyes could even think of playing him in the hole.

elampiro:
79%? source.

Did you say average or a single match? I heard the guy scored 97% in a particular match. Help did it out.

Dropping deep doesn't mean one has to be accurate, it might also mean some distraction.

elampiro:
1. The 6-1 win is not relevant to this argument because Jones was playing in our midfield possibly the first time. He was not experienced and we lost a man.

2. If you could only mention one match from all the matches Jones played last season, then he did marvellously well. It means he lost only against Chelsea, according to your post. I remember we drew against West Ham and Spurs. I dont know the Arsenal match you are talking about because we won one and drew one against Arsenal. In April we drew 2-2 against West Ham in an away fixture for us. To me that was a fine result considering it was a run in period and some games give you real headache.

Old Trafford: Man United 2 Totteham 3, No Jones W'Hart Lane: Totteham 1 Man United 1 with Jones.

United could have gone two goals up if an obvious penalty won by Rooney was awarded. Then a late mistake by goalkeeper got Spurs a lucky draw.

elampiro:
CAM: Wayne Rooney, Manchester United
Still sporting the headband, Wayne Rooney gave his best performance of the season for Man United against Bayer Leverkusen. Up against some strong defensive midfielders, Rooney was prolific in attack—scoring two goals and creating United’s third goal. Had he and Robin van Persie been on the same page after a defensive error by Leverkusen, he could very easily (and probably should) have had another goal to his name. But given he completed 97% of his attempted passes and picked up the Man-of-the-Match award on the night, we’ll let him off the hook this time.

elampiro:
Valencia has 7 UCL goals overall. That is decent from the wing.

Against Leverkusen, Valencia was far rated than Nani in the major sports reporting websites.

Sentiment apart, Jones has bailed us out from being overrun in the midfield than anyone else.

elampiro: I think one of the reasons Rooney passing accuracy is not so solid is the fact that he is a high passer. He usually make many passes in a match. He hustles and get himself into difficult areas. He doesn't do 'make e no spoil for my hand' by hiding from the ball.

May be someone should help me with the website to check these pass stat so that I can see more details.

If he passes 72 in a game and gets only 55 right, he will be blamed as a poor passer when another from his position passes 28 and get 24 right. Also a team pattern also contributes. A team playing tikitaka will have players having more pass accuracy, like Swansea.

The other day, Leverkusen completed more passes but we beat them mercilessly.[/color]

coogar:

rooney's average this season is 79%. he's never been a good passer of the ball. actually, he does more long passes better than short passes and the man in the hole must be able to tread short passes on the edge of the box to his centre-forward.



dropping deep means running from a high pressure zone to a low pressure zone. who bothers with rooney's passing when he's beside carrick doing tiki-taka? opponents are happy to let united keep the ball in those area so passing is very much easier there.




jones had played in the DM position plenty of times for blackburn even before united signed him. he was the DM when berbatov drank his blood in the 7-1 massacre of blackburn in 10/11 season.





yes let's compare the old trafford game with midfield of scholes/giggs(combined age of 100 yrs) to the white hart lane game, shall we?



keep lying to yourself - spurs destroyed man utd's midfield. de gea kept the scoreline respectable in one of his best performances ever for united. de gea kept pulling out world class saves here & there. spurs should have won the game 5-2.

coogar:

opta rated nani the highest on the day, even much better than rooney with 4 assists. so another myth of yours busted by simple statistics.

coogar:

so this should make us forget all the 60% pass completion stats he's posted this season? does it not surprise you that ross barkley can pass the ball better than rooney in the hole? £250k/week player has the worst passing accuracy in short passes in the UK - it's a disgrace.

elampiro:
1. United 7-1 victory over Blackburn was one of the matches SAF earmarked Jones as a United future player. SAF must have seen something.

2. Old Trafford game against Spurs, was it Giggs and Scholes or Giggs and Carrick? Whichever though, we lost the game.

You also appear to miss the point. I have not said Jones is a Scholes or Carrick or Giggs. What I am saying is that, in the absence of good natural midfielders, Jones is bailing us out this period. When they had age to themselves, Scholes and Giggs could dominate a midfield and monopolise possession, but we dont have that now.

EPL has never been this fast and physical, hence the reason we need a ball winner to partner Carrick until things normalize. If Fellaini or Cleverley or Anderson was playing well, I wouldn't recommend Jones.

3. On the Totteham game, whther it should have ended 5-2, is not my business. The score was a draw, and Jones has kept our score respectable each time he featured for United in the midfield since last season. I have not the time to pull out his big matches from last season, but I guess City, Chelsea, Madrid and Everton were among.

coogar:

that's immaterial - jones was the DM & berbatov gave him a bloodbath & that's contrary to what you told us that jones got his debut DM role at man utd.



we lost the game because each time bale picked the ball up, he ran through our midfield & none of our midfielders was able to match bale with pace. rafael, anderson, fabio or anyone with pace could have shackled bale on the day - nothing to do with jones.



his future is in the CB....where he can hoof the ball & commentators would say it's a good clearance. in the midfield, proper care of the ball had to be taken.....intercept or win a tackle & play a 5 yard pass & return back to position is what is required. jones had no positioning to intercept & his passing is god awful.



you don't need a ball winner to win the league. chelsea's ball winners have only won it once in the last 7 seasons.



the truth is jones got us in trouble against spurs, de gea had to bail us out several times. tottenham damaged our midfield & won every second ball with jones looking like a deer in the headlights.

elampiro:
Now we are almost on same page. You have admitted that Bale killed us through our midfield. There we need pace and energy.

You have failed to notice now that Jones is keeping the ball and passing it so well to the admiration of on lookers. You can't see that because your mind is long made up, or because you would rather see Anderson or anyone else play in that position. Against Leverkusen, Jones did very well in ball control.

Manchester United Vs Totteham.
13 Lindegaard
02 Rafael
03 Evra
05 Ferdinand (Hernandez - 90' )
06 Evans
11 Giggs (Rooney - 46' )
16 Carrick
17 Nani
22 Scholes
26 Kagawa (Welbeck - 78' )
20 Van Persie
Substitutes
01 De Gea
31 Wootton
08 Anderson
23 Cleverley

From the above you will notice that Carrick paired Scholes and even Giggs was in the match. Totteham went 3-0 up and United scored 2.

Compare this against Leverkusen when Jones paired a 40 years old Giggs. Clean sheet and low pressure on our defence. Scholes and Giggs were younger last year.

I want to believe I have made my pint known and want to call it off. Match day.

Bye. Post my ram.

elrony: