buzugee: what you are dealing with here is a lot of misconceptions. God does not want you to worship him like some idol. he wants you to worship him by treating people the way you want to be treated. is that such a bad thing ? he wants you to respect and love and treat people with respect. that is the basis of the 10 commandments. this is why he says, if you love me you will obey my commands. hence what he means is if you love me then you will love other people whom you can see because they are made in my image.

Are you sure about what you're saying here? Have you read the ten commandments? You do realize that four of those commandments are more about his vanity than treating other people with respect by e.g outlawing slavery. So, treating people with respect isn't what was foremost in this God's mind.

buzugee:
is this such a terrible thing to do ? why is loving other human beings such a sore point amongst you atheists ?

How is it a sore point amongst atheists?

buzugee:
and if you dont love other human beings he will be terrible to you. he will afflict you with all kinds of diseases or pestilence or whatever as a way too chastise you. so what really is the big deal here ? sounds like a very reasonable request and a very reasonable reaction to me. you cant go around hurting people, stealing from people, killing people,

Actually, God threatens to do that to people who don't worship him not necessarily those who kill other people. And what has a 1 month old child done to deserve diseases and natural disaster? You see, it is in fact, a very unreasonable request so I still see no reason why one would worship such a God that has shown himself to be evil.

buzugee:
sleeping with other mens wives, sleeping with women and defiling their bodies while not marrying them and expecting another man to marry what you have just used as a c-um bank, etc etc..surely you dont expect to do these things without God seeking revenge on you for defiling the things he has created in his own image, or do you ?

Actually, this post simply shows how you view women. You simply view them as objects for men's desires with none of their own. I hope you know that both men and women actually enjoy intercourse. He is willing to seek revenge for consensual intercourse while not condemning slavery.

buzugee:
SO WHY IS THIS SUCH A BANE OF EXISTENCE FOR YOU ATHEISTS ? ARE YOU JUST INHERENTLY EVIL PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN GO AROUND KILLING AND BEING EVIL TO PEOPLE WITH NO COMEUPPANCE ? IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT ? FREE REIGN TO BE THE MOST EVILEST SOB EVER CREATED ?

Actually, the statistics do not support the idea you're pushing here of atheists being evil so you may just be breaking one of the 10 commandments.

Image123:
The Bible says that the earth initially did not have all these problems, it was specially designed habitable for man. Sin and satan brought the evil. Our belief that God owns the sun, stars and good things is from the Bible. The same Bible points to sin and satan as the source of destruction. Where you get your if God did A, then He MUST have done B, i don't know. I've told you where i get my own view.

It is a simple logical deduction. I see natural disasters as being a consequence of living on a planet such as earth. You Christians claim that your God could have done much better since he has created Heaven. I'm simply wondering why your God couldn't have done a better job the first time around.

@ thehomer see your carnal mind does not get the whole picture. the first four commandment is about loving God. Loving God means you will obey his commands. this automatically ties you in to loving your fellow man because his commands are to love your fellow man, made in his image, like you love yourself. the first 4 commands rope you into loving your fellow man. if you discard the first four commands, then you cant love your fellow man because you are not committed to doing so. your love for God and hence obeying his commands is what ropes you into loving your fellow man. when you love your fellow man, and 7 billion people love their fellow men ? heaven will be done on earth. this is the ultimate goal of God.

and there is no such thing as a child with the lord. the lord deals with your spirit. man deals with body. your spirit is ageless. the spirit in that 1 month old is thousands of years old

JOHN 14 VS 15[b] If you love me, you will obey what I command.[/b]

buzugee: @ thehomer see your carnal mind does not get the whole picture. the first four commandment is about loving God. Loving God means you will obey his commands. this automatically ties you in to loving your fellow man because his commands are to love your fellow man, made in his image, like you love yourself. the first 4 commands rope you into loving your fellow man. if you discard the first four commands, then you cant love your fellow man because you are not committed to doing so. your love for God and hence obeying his commands is what ropes you into loving your fellow man. when you love your fellow man, and 7 billion people love their fellow men ? heaven will be done on earth. this is the ultimate goal of God.

and there is no such thing as a child with the lord. the lord deals with your spirit. man deals with body. your spirit is ageless. the spirit in that 1 month old is thousands of years old

JOHN 14 VS 15[b] If you love me, you will obey what I command.[/b]

Actually, it looks as though it is your carnal mind that doesn't get the whole picture. Do you recall that your God recommends slavery and ordered genocide. It is rejecting those commands that enables humans to care about other humans otherwise, they will be killing themselves for "taking the lord's name in vain". Why don't you people understand this?

Really? The spirit in a child is thousands of years old? You really need to start facing reality.

thehomer:

It is a simple logical deduction. I see natural disasters as being a consequence of living on a planet such as earth. You Christians claim that your God could have done much better since he has created Heaven. I'm simply wondering why your God couldn't have done a better job the first time around.

How is it logical that natural disasters are a consequence of living on the planet earth? Does that make any sense at all? So earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are consequences of living on a planet earth? For one who claims to have no faith, i think that's a truck load of faith, unfortunately faith in the absurd.
i don't claim that God could have done much better. God created the world good the first time. Now it's corrupted, and the revealed plan(revealed in the Bible that is) is replacement, not repair. Are you qualified to be a part of the replacement, only Jesus can qualify you, simple. It's like wanting to practice medicine, no matter all the knowledge and expertise one may have, you still need the approved medical board to qualify you. It's your headache if you see that as unfair or simply cooperate.

Image123:
How is it logical that natural disasters are a consequence of living on the planet earth? Does that make any sense at all? So earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are consequences of living on a planet earth? For one who claims to have no faith, i think that's a truck load of faith, unfortunately faith in the absurd.
i don't claim that God could have done much better. God created the world good the first time. Now it's corrupted, and the revealed plan(revealed in the Bible that is) is replacement, not repair. Are you qualified to be a part of the replacement, only Jesus can qualify you, simple. It's like wanting to practice medicine, no matter all the knowledge and expertise one may have, you still need the approved medical board to qualify you. It's your headache if you see that as unfair or simply cooperate.

1) "God created the world good". There world was never "good". So, you lie. The mere fact that Adam and Eve had to eat shows that they could have had ulcer.

2) If you also want to avoid crediting God with the creation of natural disasters like earthquakes, plagues and floods, you have to answer to these questions;

a) Who created these disasters? they couldnt have come from nowhere? Sin can not create natural disaters- sin is not an omnipotent creator
b) Why was God so fond of using natural disasters such as floods and plagues if he didnt create them? no one in the history of the world has such control over natural disasters

i thought i was replying thehomer? Well, since you need someone to talk to, let me help you. atheism must be such a bore, they don't yet have fellowships and sunday services.
1). God made everything good, bite yourself if it helps you. What do you know?
2a). You don't know the potency of sin then.
2b). You young and helpless logicboy use things you didn't create, like your phone, laptop, electricity, yet you expect the Eternal God not to be able to use things He didn't create? What do you take God for? God is not a man.

Image123: i thought i was replying thehomer? Well, since you need someone to talk to, let me help you. atheism must be such a bore, they don't yet have fellowships and sunday services.
1). God made everything good, bite yourself if it helps you. What do you know?
2a). You don't know the potency of sin then.
2b). You young and helpless logicboy use things you didn't create, like your phone, laptop, electricity, yet you expect the Eternal God not to be able to use things He didn't create? What do you take God for? God is not a man.

Epic fail

1) Avoided the question

2a) Sin is not a being. Or are you saying that sin is stronger than God? Because for every living thing that exists, there are more than one diseases and disaster that can kill it?

2b) Fail again. Anybody can use a laptop or a phone. Nobody can flood the whole world or supernaturally kill the first born of every person in a state. Only your God can do that, hence my statement "nobody in the history of the world has such control over natural disasters"

Ever heard of satan? He lives in you, and he's also capable of using stuff. Like i told you, God is not a man.

Image123: Ever heard of satan? He lives in you, and he's also capable of using stuff. Like i told you, God is not a man.

Satan lives in me because I'm an atheist?


Please watch this video...it's not long. It's about the things christians think about atheist. Please watch;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpz8PMcRJSY

Image123:
How is it logical that natural disasters are a consequence of living on the planet earth? Does that make any sense at all? So earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are consequences of living on a planet earth? For one who claims to have no faith, i think that's a truck load of faith, unfortunately faith in the absurd.

Yes e.g earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunamis are what one sees on a planet with plate tectonics and large bodies of water. Simply look it up.
You also don't seem to know what you're referring to as "faith".

Image123:
i don't claim that God could have done much better. God created the world good the first time. Now it's corrupted, and the revealed plan(revealed in the Bible that is) is replacement, not repair. Are you qualified to be a part of the replacement, only Jesus can qualify you, simple. It's like wanting to practice medicine, no matter all the knowledge and expertise one may have, you still need the approved medical board to qualify you. It's your headache if you see that as unfair or simply cooperate.

If God couldn't have done better, then how could he be considered as being omnipotent or good? Can this so called replacement not also be corrupted? It looks as if you don't fully understand the implications of the things you say.

^ when you said they are consequences, i thought you meant like in the case of CO2 emission or ozone depletions. That is that they are a sort of result of human activity. That's why i said it was an very absurd belief. Earth forming processes are not natural disasters and plagues, you've subtly changed context. For examples, Rain is good, but a two hour rain would cause flooding in some parts of lagos, nigeria. That's not God's fault. It's basically due to the ignorance and/or corruption of some men/humans. Corruption is sin, ignorance is due to the fall of man in Genesis. Man was made with capacity to sustain an Eden. If we consider one man and one woman sustaining and replicating a paradise the size of Eden, that's unmatched intelligence.
Today, man has regained some level of intelligence. Some people can actually control their home and offices' weather. Some can predict weather, earthquake, eruption and act in ways to avoid or minimise destruction. That's an improvement compared to 3centuries back. But we're yet to reach the level God created man.

In God's replacement earth, there'll be no 'repeat' because He Himself(Jesus Christ) would be in charge of the new earth, not some Adam.

Image123: ^ when you said they are consequences, i thought you meant like in the case of CO2 emission or ozone depletions. That is that they are a sort of result of human activity. That's why i said it was an very absurd belief. Earth forming processes are not natural disasters and plagues, you've subtly changed context. For examples, Rain is good, but a two hour rain would cause flooding in some parts of lagos, nigeria. That's not God's fault. It's basically due to the ignorance and/or corruption of some men/humans. Corruption is sin, ignorance is due to the fall of man in Genesis. Man was made with capacity to sustain an Eden. If we consider one man and one woman sustaining and replicating a paradise the size of Eden, that's unmatched intelligence.

No I didn't change the context. You already said you misunderstood what I was saying. How about Noah's flood that killed everyone except those in the ark? Was that God's fault? God created humans ignorant and made them corrupt. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge not the tree of ignorance. If Eden was on earth and people didn't die, don't you think it would easily have become overcrowded?
Also, now that you understand what I mean, would you say that volcanoes and tsunamis are God's fault?

Image123:
Today, man has regained some level of intelligence. Some people can actually control their home and offices' weather. Some can predict weather, earthquake, eruption and act in ways to avoid or minimise destruction. That's an improvement compared to 3centuries back. But we're yet to reach the level God created man.

Man gained this knowledge without God's help. Do you remember the tower of Babel? How about astronauts in space? How about the tsunamis? Why does God send them?

Noah's flood was not a natural disaster. It was divine judgement that God has promised never to repeat. When the police arrest or chain a convict, it's not assault. If i kill a convicted terrorist, it's murder. If the executioner kills him, its judgement. PERSPECTIVE.
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Genesis 6:5).
Noah's flood was a result of man's sin and corruption, it was judgement.
Man was created with dominion and potential to rule his world. He lost that in 'the fall'. The resources on earth are enough to sustain us all, plus we are not limited to earth. Man's thinking of going to live in the moon, God already has plans for us to come live with Him.

Tsunamis and volcanoes are earth forming processes. They can work on their own, or can be used by us or against us. There was a time lightning was useless to man, there was a time crude oil was useless, a time electric current, nuclear energy, radioactivity had no positives for man. Nothing's wrong with fire if it's under my pot of rice to cook it. But that same fire can destroy a house if not monitored, it can burn my food if chanced. It's about a similar stance with what you call natural disasters. God can use them, and satan can. i understand you don't believe any of them exists. And just like a money spinning gas station can cause a city wide fire if carelessness is introduced, in same vein, sin and corruption introduced on earth have unleashed the 'badside' of 'natural disasters'. It has brought in imperfections like the OP questioned.
"They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: ALL THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH ARE OUT OF COURSE." (Psalm 82:5).

Image123: ALL THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH ARE OUT OF COURSE." (Psalm 82:5).

Dear friend:
Do not you understand my comments personally, or as a criticism.
But Your comment has made me analyze the following:
They say that God's work was perfect.
But God created Lucifer and with it the whole phalanx of demons.
You may say that the mistake was giving them free will ... ok. I accept it, but I think it was a mistake too big ... unworthy of a god, because ultimately that God created all evil on earth.
You say (to paraphrase the Bible), that everything is now off course on earth .... and I keep thinking that ultimately the "perfect work" has not really been far from perfect ... they have always been plagues that swept entire villages, flood, genetic degeneration ... It's been very bad, imperfect to man ... but also has been very bad for Satan who can not achieve all their goals (although apparently always wins) and has been very bad for this god, who watches helplessly as his "perfect work" is destroyed every day, and for thousands of years fighting to have Satan (his own creation) could not overcome it ...).
Excuse me you, but I do not see where is the perfection in all this ...
(I clarify that I am not an atheist, or blasphemous or heretical ... just use my brain to think)

Image123: Noah's flood was not a natural disaster. It was divine judgement that God has promised never to repeat. When the police arrest or chain a convict, it's not assault. If i kill a convicted terrorist, it's murder. If the executioner kills him, its judgement. PERSPECTIVE.
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." (Genesis 6:5).
Noah's flood was a result of man's sin and corruption, it was judgement.
Man was created with dominion and potential to rule his world. He lost that in 'the fall'. The resources on earth are enough to sustain us all, plus we are not limited to earth. Man's thinking of going to live in the moon, God already has plans for us to come live with Him.

Judgement on the 2 year old who happened to be sleeping? What sort of judgement is that? Even humans avoid collective punishment yet God who can target specific people still goes on to commit mass murder.

Image123: Tsunamis and volcanoes are earth forming processes. They can work on their own, or can be used by us or against us. There was a time lightning was useless to man, there was a time crude oil was useless, a time electric current, nuclear energy, radioactivity had no positives for man. Nothing's wrong with fire if it's under my pot of rice to cook it. But that same fire can destroy a house if not monitored, it can burn my food if chanced. It's about a similar stance with what you call natural disasters. God can use them, and satan can. i understand you don't believe any of them exists. And just like a money spinning gas station can cause a city wide fire if carelessness is introduced, in same vein, sin and corruption introduced on earth have unleashed the 'badside' of 'natural disasters'. It has brought in imperfections like the OP questioned.
"They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: ALL THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH ARE OUT OF COURSE." (Psalm 82:5).

How do humans use tsunamis and erupting volcanoes?
First, note that I pointed out to you that natural disasters are a result of living on a planet such as this. You disagreed with me now, do you agree with me?
Secondly, are you saying that God couldn't have created a better earth?

@ptolomeus
Free will is not a mistake, and satan and 'demons' were not created that way.

thehomer:

Judgement on the 2 year old who happened to be sleeping? What sort of judgement is that? Even humans avoid collective punishment yet God who can target specific people still goes on to commit mass murder.

You're reverting to type o, i've just shown you a difference between judgement and crime. i can discuss if you want, but if all you want is to scorn, go ahead.
Judgement on the whole earth is a statement of the gravity of sin. BTW, it's better to die a 2year old and go to be with God forever, than grow up corrupt and aware and go to hell fire forever eternity. To be candid, that's fair and considerably preferred.

thehomer:

How do humans use tsunamis and erupting volcanoes?
First, note that I pointed out to you that natural disasters are a result of living on a planet such as this. You disagreed with me now, do you agree with me?
Secondly, are you saying that God couldn't have created a better earth?

How do humans use tsunamis and volcanoes? Research na, who knows the future? That's why i said lines like "There was a time LIGHTNING was useless to man, there was a time crude OIL was useless, a time ELECTRIC CURRENT, NUCLEAR ENERGY, RADIOACTIVITY had no positives for man. Nothing's wrong with fire if it's under my pot of rice to cook it. But that same fire can destroy a house if not monitored".
'Natural disasters' would not be disasters if we had the sense to use them to our advantage. And many of it happens because the earth is out of course as the Bible says. Also God made a good earth, He made what was needed/required/sufficient/good enough.

Image123: @ptolomeus
Free will is not a mistake, and satan and 'demons' were not created that way.

The free will leads to Lucifer and his rebel phalanxes, also leads to man "disobey" ... and all that creates chaos. But this is not the focus of discussion. I do not think that is so important.
we agree that free will is not a mistake, ok.

I am not knowledgeable about some concepts of Islam. Could you briefly explain how they were created demons?
I clarified that I have no predisposition contrary to it.

Image123:
You're reverting to type o, i've just shown you a difference between judgement and crime. i can discuss if you want, but if all you want is to scorn, go ahead.

I know the difference the question is do you? What idea of justice would fit killing a child for an alleged sin committed by their ancestor?

Image123:
Judgement on the whole earth is a statement of the gravity of sin. BTW, it's better to die a 2year old and go to be with God forever, than grow up corrupt and aware and go to hell fire forever eternity. To be candid, that's fair and considerably preferred.

No, judgement on the whole earth by an omnipotent and beneficent entity makes no sense.
If it is better to die a 2 year old and all that, then I simply have to ask if you go around killing all toddlers you find around you in order to save them from becoming corrupt. If you think it is fair and to be preferred, then I wonder if you would encourage people to go around killing children.

Image123:
How do humans use tsunamis and volcanoes? Research na, who knows the future? That's why i said lines like "There was a time LIGHTNING was useless to man, there was a time crude OIL was useless, a time ELECTRIC CURRENT, NUCLEAR ENERGY, RADIOACTIVITY had no positives for man. Nothing's wrong with fire if it's under my pot of rice to cook it. But that same fire can destroy a house if not monitored".

Again, you're shifting your argument. If you wish to claim that such disasters will be useful in the future, then you really need to do much more than what you're saying here.

Image123:
'Natural disasters' would not be disasters if we had the sense to use them to our advantage. And many of it happens because the earth is out of course as the Bible says. Also God made a good earth, He made what was needed/required/sufficient/good enough.

Are there tsunamis, earthquakes and tornadoes in heaven?
Now you're saying humans don't have the sense to use them to our advantage. Well why didn't God give humans the sense to use it to their advantage? Why does he use them to freely kill people on such a massive scale?
Finally, please tell me whether or not you agree with me that these events are simply a result of living on a planet such as earth.

@thehomer

I know the difference the question is do you? What idea of justice would fit killing a child for an alleged sin committed by their ancestor?

The idea that the child would also grow up corrupt and worse if left alive. The idea that the child had better die than grow up, live a few wicked years and spend eternity in damnation. It's a very fair choice.

No, judgement on the whole earth by an omnipotent and beneficent entity makes no sense.
If it is better to die a 2 year old and all that, then I simply have to ask if you go around killing all toddlers you find around you in order to save them from becoming corrupt. If you think it is fair and to be preferred, then I wonder if you would encourage people to go around killing children.

Humans beings don't have enough knowledge as to know who would repent and who would not, or who would come out of corruption. And we are not the Judge remember, perspective. God is the Judge. Life belongs to God, and He owns the right and prerogative to determine when to take it, people don't have such right.

Again, you're shifting your argument. If you wish to claim that such disasters will be useful in the future, then you really need to do much more than what you're saying here.

i'm not making such claims. i'm saying if we had a bit more knowledge, we may know how to avoid them, even neutralise them or control them. Like today, we can control our weather. We can be cool all day, even when its scorching hot outside, and vice versa. That's increase in knowledge, it was not always like that in the past.

Are there tsunamis, earthquakes and tornadoes in heaven?

i don't know, but if there are, they would not be disasters. If you've read your Bible, you would recall the children of Israel in the wilderness at mount Sinai. There was fire and shakings ang quakings, but it was all controlled by God as not to be a natural disaster. Jesus Christ controlled storms. If man had retained perfect fellowship with God as in Eden, we would control these things if ever they had to occur. Like i showed you from scriptures, the earth is out of course as it were.

Now you're saying humans don't have the sense to use them to our advantage. Well why didn't God give humans the sense to use it to their advantage? Why does he use them to freely kill people on such a massive scale?
Finally, please tell me whether or not you agree with me that these events are simply a result of living on a planet such as earth.

Like i've explained, God gave man the sense, but man lost it all during the fall episode at Eden. Man died. It's maybe like loosing your brain(though man lost much more than a brain), memory lapse/collapse. And then having to be retaught from the basics of what is your name, 1+1. And we are yet to get to where Adam was, a position where just two people could efficiently man and maintain a paradise the size of Eden, empowered to replenish the earth, and have dominion over everything on earth and in the sea. The events are not just a result of living on a planet earth, it's partly, but that's not the only cause. the earth is out of course, and the fall of man leaves him unable to cope with what he was initially created with the capacity to cope with.

Image123: @thehomer

The idea that the child would also grow up corrupt and worse if left alive. The idea that the child had better die than grow up, live a few wicked years and spend eternity in damnation. It's a very fair choice.

So in that case, it is better to kill that child. Please tell me, do you think women should be free to have abortions?

Image123:
Humans beings don't have enough knowledge as to know who would repent and who would not, or who would come out of corruption. And we are not the Judge remember, perspective. God is the Judge. Life belongs to God, and He owns the right and prerogative to determine when to take it, people don't have such right.

I'm not talking about who has the knowledge, I'm talking about what would be best for the child. Now, would you say it would have been better if you had been killed when you were two years old rather than growing up with a chance of not being a Christian? Keep in mind that the vast majority of people will be going to hell.

Image123:
i'm not making such claims. i'm saying if we had a bit more knowledge, we may know how to avoid them, even neutralise them or control them. Like today, we can control our weather. We can be cool all day, even when its scorching hot outside, and vice versa. That's increase in knowledge, it was not always like that in the past.

Firstly, humans don't control the weather. Secondly, you're still sidestepping the issue because you're now blaming people for the natural disasters on the planet that God supposedly created for the benefit of humans. Would you blame a 2 year old child for injuring himself with a broken bottle?

Image123:
i don't know, but if there are, they would not be disasters. If you've read your Bible, you would recall the children of Israel in the wilderness at mount Sinai. There was fire and shakings ang quakings, but it was all controlled by God as not to be a natural disaster. Jesus Christ controlled storms. If man had retained perfect fellowship with God as in Eden, we would control these things if ever they had to occur. Like i showed you from scriptures, the earth is out of course as it were.

What if the tale of the wilderness was just a myth? Why wouldn't they be disasters in heaven? Why doesn't God control those events here on earth to avoid disasters? Why didn't he wipe out malaria?

Image123:
Like i've explained, God gave man the sense, but man lost it all during the fall episode at Eden. Man died. It's maybe like loosing your brain(though man lost much more than a brain), memory lapse/collapse. And then having to be retaught from the basics of what is your name, 1+1. And we are yet to get to where Adam was, a position where just two people could efficiently man and maintain a paradise the size of Eden, empowered to replenish the earth, and have dominion over everything on earth and in the sea. The events are not just a result of living on a planet earth, it's partly, but that's not the only cause. the earth is out of course, and the fall of man leaves him unable to cope with what he was initially created with the capacity to cope with.

Are you seriously telling me that Adam could control the weather, earthquakes and microbes? Are you serious?

@THEHOMER

So in that case, it is better to kill that child. Please tell me, do you think women should be free to have abortions?

You don't have the knowledge, God does.

I'm not talking about who has the knowledge, I'm talking about what would be best for the child. Now, would you say it would have been better if you had been killed when you were two years old rather than growing up with a chance of not being a Christian? Keep in mind that the vast majority of people will be going to hell.

No human has the right to take another human's life. If i did not give my life to Christ and begin to serve Him and obtain eternal life, it would have been better that i died a baby or was never born. And it's the same thing for every human being. Thank God, i heard the gospel and i believed the gospel, and i'm saved from 'the wrath to come'. Jesus said " it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire."

Firstly, humans don't control the weather. Secondly, you're still sidestepping the issue because you're now blaming people for the natural disasters on the planet that God supposedly created for the benefit of humans. Would you blame a 2 year old child for injuring himself with a broken bottle?

i said we control OUR weather, not THE weather. What i meant i explained. That is you can be in a place like your home or office and decide whether the room should be 32C or 16C, it has not always been like that. i said we can avoid, or control or even neutralise, is that blame? If anyone should be blamed, maybe Adam. But we are in it together now, so the solution is what you should be looking for, not who is at fault. Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent. They should simply have been honest and accepted their faults. Well today, the world is out of course and we experience some things that we didn't have to experience in the first place. Do you know that from researchers point of view, if the earth tilted wrongly by one degree, it would be inhabitable because the equator region would become too hot and the poles will be too cold? That's just one more degree out of course BTW, yet the world is already out of course as stated in the Word of God. So you should not expect everything to function as normally as it was meant to. The Bible says it is God that by His mercy holds the world by His power. One tiny chancy mistake and the world would be destroyed. And Adam was not a 2 year old child, He was a man created in God's image with power over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth, and ability to manage a garden the size of Eden, replenish the earth with the same blueprint and subdue the earth.

What if the tale of the wilderness was just a myth? Why wouldn't they be disasters in heaven? Why doesn't God control those events here on earth to avoid disasters? Why didn't he wipe out malaria?

God already gave man that job, but He passed it on to the devil. Now, we are struggling and discovering to get it back. It is not God's job, He already delegated it. If God decides to protect anyone, it's an act of mercy, not a duty or our right. And He does have mercy on all of His creatures including you. Infact, you are only alive because of God's mercies, same thing me BTW.

Are you seriously telling me that Adam could control the weather, earthquakes and microbes? Are you serious?

Yep, Adam was more brilliant than any man would ever be. We can only try, or wait till you get to Heaven if you would. Do you know that some human beings can now direct the wind to a degree? What of water courses. Microbes are everywhere mr. They are in your mouth, in your body, everywhere. It's not every microbe or every quantity that causes sickness. i heard that during a kiss, about 270 bacteria colonies are exchanged. Every hour, one billion cells in the human body is replaced, one billion. Two million red blood cells die every second in you. Find out the amount of bacteria inside your intestines. Microbes are not your real issues my man. i tell you what, more than 70% of diseases are caused or enhanced by STRESS. And we have stress because of sin. Go and figure.

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Image123: @THEHOMER

You don't have the knowledge, God does.


No human has the right to take another human's life. If i did not give my life to Christ and begin to serve Him and obtain eternal life, it would have been better that i died a baby or was never born. And it's the same thing for every human being. Thank God, i heard the gospel and i believed the gospel, and i'm saved from 'the wrath to come'. Jesus said " it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire."

I'm not talking about rights but about what would be better for the child. This would mean that it would have been better for your ancestors who weren't Christians to have been killed before they became adults.

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i said we control OUR weather, not THE weather. What i meant i explained. That is you can be in a place like your home or office and decide whether the room should be 32C or 16C, it has not always been like that. i said we can avoid, or control or even neutralise, is that blame? If anyone should be blamed, maybe Adam. But we are in it together now, so the solution is what you should be looking for, not who is at fault. Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent. They should simply have been honest and accepted their faults. Well today, the world is out of course and we experience some things that we didn't have to experience in the first place. Do you know that from researchers point of view, if the earth tilted wrongly by one degree, it would be inhabitable because the equator region would become too hot and the poles will be too cold? That's just one more degree out of course BTW, yet the world is already out of course as stated in the Word of God. So you should not expect everything to function as normally as it was meant to. The Bible says it is God that by His mercy holds the world by His power. One tiny chancy mistake and the world would be destroyed. And Adam was not a 2 year old child, He was a man created in God's image with power over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth, and ability to manage a garden the size of Eden, replenish the earth with the same blueprint and subdue the earth.

You do not have your own weather. If there is a hurricane going past your house, no matter how you adjust your air conditioner, if the path is right, it will disrupt "your weather". How is Adam to blame for hurricanes and earthquakes?
Tilted wrongly by one degree? Are you sure about that? Where is this research? One mistake by who? And just how big is this Garden of Eden?

Image123:
God already gave man that job, but He passed it on to the devil. Now, we are struggling and discovering to get it back. It is not God's job, He already delegated it. If God decides to protect anyone, it's an act of mercy, not a duty or our right. And He does have mercy on all of His creatures including you. Infact, you are only alive because of God's mercies, same thing me BTW.

It is not God's job to help people anymore? What you're talking about here is a callous or indifferent God not a good God.

Image123:
Yep, Adam was more brilliant than any man would ever be. We can only try, or wait till you get to Heaven if you would. Do you know that some human beings can now direct the wind to a degree? What of water courses. Microbes are everywhere mr. They are in your mouth, in your body, everywhere. It's not every microbe or every quantity that causes sickness. i heard that during a kiss, about 270 bacteria colonies are exchanged. Every hour, one billion cells in the human body is replaced, one billion. Two million red blood cells die every second in you. Find out the amount of bacteria inside your intestines. Microbes are not your real issues my man. i tell you what, more than 70% of diseases are caused or enhanced by STRESS. And we have stress because of sin. Go and figure.

You're just making things up here. Adam was very brilliant? Did he know that microbes existed? I know that microbes are everywhere and have you wondered why so many children now live and why people live longer? Hint: A lot of it is due to understanding these microbes. Saying we have stress because of sin tells me that you don't understand stress or sin.

Image123:
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

You're simply highlighting the incompetence of your God if this is how you punish ignorance in your own well created people.

buzugee: the lord dont make mistakes. what we have are punishments and rewards. ecclesiastes 3 vs 16 And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, under the sun, called the earth, is the place of judgement. this is where you pay for your sins from previous life or get your rewards from previous life john 9 vs 1-2 1 As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?

if u believe in past life then ur nt a true christain

@thehomer

I'm not talking about rights but about what would be better for the child. This would mean that it would have been better for your ancestors who weren't Christians to have been killed before they became adults.

There is no way you would not mention rights, because no human can/should kill another human if he has no rights to. the only One that has rights to life taking is God, because He is the giver of life. how do you know that my ancestors were not christians? ithink i get your question though. You want to know if it would be better that all non christians be killed as babies. Well that would be impossible because nobody is born a christian, i mean a real christian not nominal christian like perhaps Bill Gates was born. We all have to make our choices when we become accountable, to either serve God(which is the purpose why He created us, or not serve God(making us useless to God's purpose and ready for destruction).

You do not have your own weather. If there is a hurricane going past your house, no matter how you adjust your air conditioner, if the path is right, it will disrupt "your weather". How is Adam to blame for hurricanes and earthquakes?
Tilted wrongly by one degree? Are you sure about that? Where is this research? One mistake by who? And just how big is this Garden of Eden?

Stop being such a drag, the simple point is that humans live better/more conveniently in developed and more knowledgeable areas than in undeveloped areas. Because of increase in knowledge, we don't have to be shivering in the house because it's winter, the house temperature can be conditioned. Today, some large places can be conditioned. Places can be so well lit you would barely know it is night. Before, in the night, nobody could work(at least legally). Our knowledge is putting us in more control as it were. If there was that extra, ground breaking discovery/knowledge, some sickness would not be epidemics or disasters. Some earth forming processes would not affect us. At least today, due to knowledge, humans are able to limit the effects of some "natural disasters" through warning signals, breakers, knowledge of prone zones etc.
When Adam gave ownership of the earth to satan, the world went out of course.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
It is this earth instability that results in 'earth movements' of different magnitudes. God in His mercies has made them of one use or the other BTW. i hope you know that tsunamis are useful. Yeah, talking about the earth been tilted, i\ve read it somewhere before, not the internet. i don't have the time to search for it on the internet, i don't think i need the knowledge. Anyway, i googled something and this link at least shows that i'm not imagining things. http://www.weirdfacts.com/weird-science/3137-weird-science-2.html (see number 5)and http://www.greatfacts.com/index27.htm

Plus eden was big enough to be irrigated by 4rivers.

Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
River Euphrates still popularly holds its name, you can check it up. Or go to anywhere where you have a confluence of rivers(e.g Kogi state), you would notice it's not the size of a football field. And Adam and Eve were in charge of a paradise land that size.

It is not God's job to help people anymore? What you're talking about here is a callous or indifferent God not a good God.

It was never God's job to help people. Just because He keeps covering your butt and mistakes does not mean it is His job. God equipped Adam with ability to take care of himself and the whole earth. when you were a child, your parents helped you, washed your butt, your clothes, cooked your food etc. As you grew up, they started to allow you room for responsibility. that they saw you as mature and responsible doesn't mean they are callous and indifferent. they simply know they have trained you enough to take care of yourself and believe that you would be fine. God created man especially in His image, He made man wonderfully. Every human is a wondrous masterpiece built to conquer. god gave us all time and brains and bodies. he even gave us a free line to call on Him if we need help(called prayer). It's not His fault that many would not use their time or brain or body. Some people are using theirs and making 'progress' especially in the West. It's unfortunate though when we think we do not ever need God, leaving out the free line and the Word He gave us.

You're just making things up here. Adam was very brilliant? Did he know that microbes existed? I know that microbes are everywhere and have you wondered why so many children now live and why people live longer? Hint: A lot of it is due to understanding these microbes. Saying we have stress because of sin tells me that you don't understand stress or sin.

the point is that you think it is these microbes that are your major issues/problems, and i've shown/reminded you that these microbes are everywhere all the time. they are even good/useful to us in many ways. It is sin and satan that make tweaks that cause sicknesses and calamities. We don't see sin or satan, but we see microbes(thank God for research), and someone says it is microbes that caused your disease/sickness. the point is that is right in a sense, but the microbes are always around as it were. All satan needs to do if allowed is tweak a gene, remove a tissue, increase a chromosome etc and you would have all sort of sickness. That's a little on satan's part which i know you don;t believe exists. the other part is sin. Sin opens the way for satan and his various agents. Sin brought ignorance,and stress. It is the variants of ignorance and stress that produce the majority of sickness. Ignorance for instance can lead to AIDS, sickle cell, deformity, blindness, still birth. Note the bolded below.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
And then stress. man was not made for stress. Stress came in as a result of the fall at eden. man now has to sweat and strain. He was working in Eden, sin is not what brought work like some think. Adam was working in Eden (i don't yet know a man or two humans so brilliant and powerful as to successfully maintain an airport on their own, yet Eden was bigger and more complex than any airport). God works, but man's fall brought sweat and stress. And it is stress that would bring you down than anything. go to the hospital and hear advice on rest, and see how they sedate patients so that they can get well. look at the eagle and see how it flies almost stresslessly, look at the horse and see how it works almost tirelessly. Angels operate in a better form than that, they are not tired like we humans. Yet man is just a little lower than the angels.

You're simply highlighting the incompetence of your God if this is how you punish ignorance in your own well created people

God punished and still punishes disobedience. And it's good that every human sees his wrong and corruption, and ask God for mercy and pardon, because that is the only way out of the mess we are into. God is going to destroy the world, and only those that believe in Jesus the Christ would not perish but have eternal life.

I think you need to consider avoiding these walls of text that you keep putting up.

Image123: @thehomer

There is no way you would not mention rights, because no human can/should kill another human if he has no rights to. the only One that has rights to life taking is God, because He is the giver of life. how do you know that my ancestors were not christians? ithink i get your question though. You want to know if it would be better that all non christians be killed as babies. Well that would be impossible because nobody is born a christian, i mean a real christian not nominal christian like perhaps Bill Gates was born. We all have to make our choices when we become accountable, to either serve God(which is the purpose why He created us, or not serve God(making us useless to God's purpose and ready for destruction).

You're still missing my point. My point is that going by your logic, it would be better for all children to be killed shortly after they are born since that way, they'll automatically make it into heaven.

Image123:
Stop being such a drag, the simple point is that humans live better/more conveniently in developed and more knowledgeable areas than in undeveloped areas. Because of increase in knowledge, we don't have to be shivering in the house because it's winter, the house temperature can be conditioned. Today, some large places can be conditioned. Places can be so well lit you would barely know it is night. Before, in the night, nobody could work(at least legally). Our knowledge is putting us in more control as it were. If there was that extra, ground breaking discovery/knowledge, some sickness would not be epidemics or disasters. Some earth forming processes would not affect us. At least today, due to knowledge, humans are able to limit the effects of some "natural disasters" through warning signals, breakers, knowledge of prone zones etc.
When Adam gave ownership of the earth to satan, the world went out of course.

Sure humans live better no thanks to your God. Note that you're right now turning to humans to perform these breakthroughs rather than simply sitting in your church and praying for God to give it to you. Humans being smart enough to save themselves without your God's help counts against your God.

Image123:
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
It is this earth instability that results in 'earth movements' of different magnitudes. God in His mercies has made them of one use or the other BTW. i hope you know that tsunamis are useful. Yeah, talking about the earth been tilted, i\ve read it somewhere before, not the internet. i don't have the time to search for it on the internet, i don't think i need the knowledge. Anyway, i googled something and this link at least shows that i'm not imagining things. http://www.weirdfacts.com/weird-science/3137-weird-science-2.html (see number 5)and http://www.greatfacts.com/index27.htm

I told you previously that earthquakes and other disasters are a natural consequence of living on planet such as earth, you disagreed now, you're repeating my own words back at me. Do you now finally agree that these phenomena are a natural consequence of the earth?
You could take a look at this article which tells you that over the past 1 million years, it has varied by more than 1^o.

Image123:
Plus eden was big enough to be irrigated by 4rivers.

Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
River Euphrates still popularly holds its name, you can check it up. Or go to anywhere where you have a confluence of rivers(e.g Kogi state), you would notice it's not the size of a football field. And Adam and Eve were in charge of a paradise land that size.

Well, just where is this Garden of Eden? Have you seen it on Google Earth with the Cherubim guard?

Image123:
It was never God's job to help people. Just because He keeps covering your butt and mistakes does not mean it is His job. God equipped Adam with ability to take care of himself and the whole earth. when you were a child, your parents helped you, washed your butt, your clothes, cooked your food etc. As you grew up, they started to allow you room for responsibility. that they saw you as mature and responsible doesn't mean they are callous and indifferent. they simply know they have trained you enough to take care of yourself and believe that you would be fine. God created man especially in His image, He made man wonderfully. Every human is a wondrous masterpiece built to conquer. god gave us all time and brains and bodies. he even gave us a free line to call on Him if we need help(called prayer). It's not His fault that many would not use their time or brain or body. Some people are using theirs and making 'progress' especially in the West. It's unfortunate though when we think we do not ever need God, leaving out the free line and the Word He gave us.

If God isn't supposed to help people, then how can he be beneficent to humans? Why don't you say he is indifferent?

Image123:
the point is that you think it is these microbes that are your major issues/problems, and i've shown/reminded you that these microbes are everywhere all the time. they are even good/useful to us in many ways. It is sin and satan that make tweaks that cause sicknesses and calamities. We don't see sin or satan, but we see microbes(thank God for research), and someone says it is microbes that caused your disease/sickness. the point is that is right in a sense, but the microbes are always around as it were. All satan needs to do if allowed is tweak a gene, remove a tissue, increase a chromosome etc and you would have all sort of sickness. That's a little on satan's part which i know you don;t believe exists. the other part is sin. Sin opens the way for satan and his various agents. Sin brought ignorance,and stress. It is the variants of ignorance and stress that produce the majority of sickness. Ignorance for instance can lead to AIDS, sickle cell, deformity, blindness, still birth. Note the bolded below.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
And then stress. man was not made for stress. Stress came in as a result of the fall at eden. man now has to sweat and strain. He was working in Eden, sin is not what brought work like some think. Adam was working in Eden (i don't yet know a man or two humans so brilliant and powerful as to successfully maintain an airport on their own, yet Eden was bigger and more complex than any airport). God works, but man's fall brought sweat and stress. And it is stress that would bring you down than anything. go to the hospital and hear advice on rest, and see how they sedate patients so that they can get well. look at the eagle and see how it flies almost stresslessly, look at the horse and see how it works almost tirelessly. Angels operate in a better form than that, they are not tired like we humans. Yet man is just a little lower than the angels.

So it is the devil that is playing with your genes? You just make these things up whole cloth. If Satan can reach into people's DNA, what is God doing to stop this? Is he powerless before Satan?

Image123:
God punished and still punishes disobedience. And it's good that every human sees his wrong and corruption, and ask God for mercy and pardon, because that is the only way out of the mess we are into. God is going to destroy the world, and only those that believe in Jesus the Christ would not perish but have eternal life.

God punishes disobedience but won't stop the devil from playing with your DNA or causing plagues and natural disasters? Please tell me again how much this God loves people.
Any way, I'm already bored with this discussion because you're not really being consistent in your points so, I'll just let this rest here.