OLAADEGBU: When I said that the last Apostle to pen the Scripture was John the beloved I meant He was not succeeded by anyone else and there was no other book penned by any other apostle after him. All the people you call successive apostles are false just as the cartoon depicts it.
Octaves: you can't reach a Catholic who knows why he's a Catholic. because they know you are getting it wrong. its insulting to compare Catholics with idol worshippers because we're not the same thing. but extreme indoctrination has distorted your thinking.
brocab: Do you really believe hating someone with a passion will draw you closer to God? "Hail Mother of God I repent, Holy Mother forgive me, I don't think so-you are a lost soul-trying to work your way into heaven-you believe there is one God, good, even the demons believe and tremble.{James 2:19}
Lizzie's new way of Praying "Hail Mother of God I repent, do you actually believe a priest have the same authority, as Jesus, He is the only one who can forgive sins. Do you believe praying Holy Mother forgive me, for I have sinned against you-and your Church-will wash your sins away-you had left God for this, I pray-Mother of God, my Mediator between myself and God, for I am your servant, Holy Mary Mother of God I bow down to thee. Lizzie you claim to know the scriptures, but do you honestly believe repenting to your priest is repenting to God: at the same time, You had left God for this-your new method of praying is only traditional hogwash created by Catholic's that still practice pagan religion, Catholic's that worships Lucifer under Oath.
brocab: Just like you-I need to be dumbfounded-I need to be a lost cause, I need my head red-I need to cast my peals before swine, I need to follow tradition, I need to be saved in the Catholic Church, I need to walk away from God-I need to bow down before statues of Mary, I need to pray to dead saint's, I need to accept I am not reading bible truth. And what tops it off, I need to be friends with Lizzie. I say it again-I am not interested about 9 inches bragging about Lizzie, or visa versa, Lizzie bragging about 9 inches.
Stop trying to pivot. No one is asking you to befriend Lizzie. Go and learn the truth, stop living in denial. Learn your bible, stop reading it like a novel.
I don't think so. You don't have answer me; answer it for yourself. That's even better.
I believe Christ is the head of the Church-but He is not the head of your Church only
There is no more than one church my friend. Accept the truth and live. "I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one" (John 17:22). That was Jesus talking to His Father in Heaven. "...and on this rock I will build My church" (Matt 16:18). The Lord purchased the church "with his own blood" (Acts 20:28). Christ is "the head of the body, the church" (Colossians 1:18). "And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all" (Ephesians 1:22-23). Stop hardening your heart to the Word of God, the traditions of the Apostles and the early Christians. Abandon your Martin Luther's tradition. “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as you did in the rebellion" (Hebrews 3:15).
I believe there are true believers, that preaches Christ inside the Catholic Church
Great! Amen!
I believe you need to repent, and cry out unto the Lord, and ask Him to forgive you.
Sure, I always do that.
I believe the Lord's calling you-but the desires of your heart, had blinded you.
hmm.. I greet you oga prophet.
I believe you have time-seek and you will find, knock and it will be open, ask, and it will be given, say's the Lord..
brocab: I am not interested.. {Matthew 7:6} “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces. I do hope you know what the above is saying to you Liz>your full time rejections against the Word of God, is casting you further away from the truth.
Right, you're not interested. Stop misquoting the scripture out of ignorance. Fear God, go and learn the Word of God my friend.
solite3: who laid hands on the Apostles? What has laying of hands got to do with authority to preach? Who laid hands on Paul to have the right to preach
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, completing their fasting and prayer, they laid hands on them and sent them off (Acts 13:2-3). You do not require laying of hands to be able preach ordinarily; lay faithfuls surely can preach to one another. But authorization is required to lead a Church (which includes preaching, indoctrination, reproof, correction, instruction, forgiving sins, offer the Sacrifice (Luke 22:19) and dispense the various sacraments (Matthew 28:18; John 20:22, 23).
For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands (2 Timothy 1:6). Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery [body of elders] (1 Timothy 4:14). Laying of hands is a gesture used in the Old Testament to signify the transmission of authority from Moses to Joshua (Num 27:18-23, Deut 34:9). The early Christian community used it as a symbol of installation into an office, eg. the Seven (Acts 6:6) and Paul and Barnabas (Acts 13:3). To fulfill their exalted mission, the apostles were endowed by Christ with a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit coming upon them, and by the laying of hands they passed on to their auxiliaries the gift of the Spirit, which is transmitted down to our day.
who are the church?
The Church is God's household and the pillar and foundation of truth. The fact that we don’t have any writings from Jesus, or that he didn’t hand-write the Bible on his own is not a big problem for Catholics. While the Bible is essential, it is not the only means of transmitting the Faith from one generation to the next. For this, Jesus established his Church, which Apostle Paul calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim 3:15). This is why Jesus chose his disciples and groomed them. They would be the method of transmission.
How do you know the church teaching are in line with scripture?
We know this because the scripture came from the Church. It was members of the Body of Christ (the Church) that wrote the scripture (NT); their followers down the line through generations compiled the books and decided which written text makes up the bible and which text does not. So, without the Church you would not have had the bible you have now; at best, you might have a tiny portion of it. And of course, the authors wrote more or less a summary of what they already preached orally.
There is nothing wrong in scrutinizing what Paul or Timothy preaches using scripture. In fact those that did it were called noble. If you don't scrutinize your church teachings from scripture you are foolish.
Of course. I never said anything on the contrary.
A catholic knows nothing about scriptures
you kinda have a point there. Some, no!... actually, a lot of catholics know nothing about scriptures. View it this way: a lot of kids from wealthy families do not go through the "normal" grind the average kids go through. This is because their parents have done more than enough hardwork, gathered enough resources to be able to provide most of their needs, and so the kids are often than not, prone to abuse of privilege. They also tend be vulnerable when they are exposed to the "real world" of the average kids. But here's the clincher, some of the wealthy kids who do not take their privileged background for granted, and who put in some extra work on their own generally tend to do better than the average kids, while the many who take theirs for granted tend to fall even below the average kids. In this analogy, the Wealthy parents = the Mother Church (a.k.a Catholic Church).
what did Jesus and the apostles preach if not the gospel? The apostle only at wrote out of necessity this is a lie.
Jesus didn't need to give them a book because they already have and the holy ghost will write more for them. No book of the bible is by mans initiative. You in deceit.
Tell me you did not intentionally edit my comment. I said "the Gospel was preached not read to the early Christians. Yes, the apostles only wrote out of necessity. For example, Jude (in Jude 1:3) writes, "Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints." You might ask, what necessitated this appeal? Here's why: "For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" (Verse 4). And how do I know they have already been taught? Here: "I wish to remind you, although you know all things, that [the] Lord who once saved a people from the land of Egypt later destroyed those who did not believe" (Verse 5). Pay attention here! "In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings. But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.
"Jesus didn't need to give them a book", not because they already have the Old Testament (that would not be enough. The OT is not Gospel); nor because the holy ghost will write more for them (the Holy Spirit, just like Jesus himself did not write anything)... Jesus didn't need to give them a book because Jesus had already prepared them and commanded them to go and preach the Gospel. There was no command from Jesus to write the Gospel. What's important is to preach the Gospel whether written or unwritten.
This below is why the apostles wrote. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
this is a lie, they early Christians already hand the old testament and already recognized the letters of the apostles as scripture
2 Timothy 3:16 is not the point of argument here. The argument was (is) bordered on "Church vs Scripture". I was asked who would know about God if there is no bible, and my reply was the group of people who received the oral teachings of the apostles and passed it down from generation to generation. These group of people know everything in the bible and more!
@bolded, you don't pay attention. Now read slowly:
9inches: For almost 400 years, the Christians of those days had no bible (full OT+ full NT) to refer to.
There have always been disagreements and contestation on which books are divinely inspired and which are not. Some books were were believed to be inspired, but did not make up the bible. For example, the Bible speaks of many different prophets who heard the word of God (Gad in 1 Samuel 22:5, Nathan in 2 Samuel 7:2, Ahijah in 1 Kings 11:29, to name a few). Acts 11:26 speaks of prophets who came from Jerusalem into Antioch. The Bible also speaks of female prophetesses such as Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4), and Anna (Luke 2:36), among others. All of these people, given the title as “prophet” or “prophetess” in the Bible were no doubt-inspired by God, but their material was not canonized. Not that there's something wrong with their message. No. It's because the Councils of Hippo and Carthage weighted the already existing books and letters believed to have been divinely inspired, against a strict set of criteria, namely:
1. Apostolic Origin - attributed to and/or based on the preaching/teaching of the first-generation apostles (or their closest companions). 2. Universal Acceptance - acknowledged by all major Christian communities in the Mediterranean world (by the end of the fourth century). 3. Liturgical Use - read publicly along with the OT when early Christians gathered for the Lord's Supper (their weekly worship services). 4. Consistent Message - containing theological ideas compatible with other accepted Christian writings (incl. the divinity and humanity Jesus).
Do you know that Martin Luther removed some parts of the Scripture that have always been in the bible? For example, he included the deuterocanonicals in his first German translation. They can also be found in the first King James Version (1611) and in the first Bible ever printed, the Guttenberg Bible in 1450s. In fact, these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society removed them in 1825.
this is the common lie with your cult group. So the Roman catholic church wrote the bible? The bible that even Daniel read!
Hence you can change it. So the roman cultolic church gave moses the law, created God and form Jesus?
Although the Pharisees were custodians of the law they never boasted that they gave the law. They are a lot better than you. Which part of the bible did ur cult bring?
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Yet another ignorant blubbering. May you receive sense to be able to understand.
Oga, Scripture is the content of God's word and the Bible is the source that contains it. Therefore, the Bible is a work of Scripture, and not vice versa. Even the Bible itself mentions many other works of scripture that it does not contain. So yes, the Church has existed before the gospels were written and the bible compiled.
Because you "believe" does not make your belief true. There's nothing in your cartoons that says anything about apostolic succession (a term you first of all threw at me, but now you're afraid and dodging it). Your cartoon also says nothing about 1 Timothy 3:15 which was my third question awaiting your answers. Honestly answer my questions, or you can blatantly decline.
brocab: If it said the Catholic Church-then I wouldn't have an argument, but sadly for you, the argument remains.
So do you believe now that the Church is God's household and the pillar and foundation of truth and without the Church you would not have had the bible you have now?
brocab: Ha ha ha-now this is funny-man read your bible, If "1 Timothy is about Old testament, then who gave Lizzie the authority to preach the gospel? Lizzie needs to go back to kindergarten and learn how to glue and paste. {1 Timothy 2:12} "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." Paul wrote to Timothy to encourage him in his responsibility for overseeing the work of the Ephesian church and possibly the other churches in the province of Asia{1 Timothy 1:3} This letter lays the foundation for ordaining elders {1 Timothy 3:1-7} provides guidance for ordaining people into offices of the church. {1 Timothy 3:8-13}In essence, 1 Timothy is a leadership manual for church organization and administration. {1 Timothy 2:5, 1 Timothy 2:12, 1 Timothy 3:1-2, 1 Timothy 4:9-10, 1 Timothy 6:12} "Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses." The Tradition Paul wrote were the first letter Paul wrote to Timothy, Paul begins the letter by urging Timothy to be on guard for false teachers and false doctrine. However, much of the letter deals with pastoral conduct warnings about false teachers, and the church’s responsibility toward single members, widows, elders, and slaves. All throughout the letter, Paul encourages Timothy to stand firm, to persevere, and to remain true to his calling. in Christ.. So in your case-Lizzie know it all-it won't matter how much the bible shows you, you will never see it coming-stop reading comic books.
Which part of her argument or the bible verses do you want to argue against?
brocab: What is your aim? Is it only to insult me publicly, we already know-you don't follow Word, you follow tradition, and tradition Paul preached, isn't the tradition you are preaching to me..
brocab: Hypocrite" you have done the same thing, is copied..
You got caught dude. I told you earlier you can copy something and expatiate on it to make your point,but not copying almost someone's entire argument.
brocab: And what was Paul's teachings, he taught the tradition on the Word of God, and how you must receive the Holy Spirit and go out unto all the nations and preach the gospel. {2 Thessalonians 2:15} So then, brothers (and sisters), stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.” Paul urges the Thessalonians to “not be easily shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter…” They were not to be deceived by anyone or any false word or practice {vs. 3} They were being disturbed by reports that the Lord had come {vs. 1} The Thessalonians had become Christians through the preaching of the Apostle Paul {Acts 17:1–9} The church at Thessalonica comprised Jews and Gentiles, They then imitated Paul and the Lord {1 Thessalonians 1:6, 2:14} The Gospel had come to them in power and by the Holy Spirit with full conviction {1 Thessalonians 1:5} They not only had received God’s Word with joy, but also were spreading the Gospel themselves, and they had gained a reputation for their evangelizing {1 Thessalonians 1:8} So they received what Paul told them and then spread it everywhere they went. The power of the Word rests in the power of a transformed life. The Gospel saves and delivers. Paul tells the Thessalonians that when they received the Gospel from Paul and his companions, they actually received the Word not as from men but as the Word of God{1 Thessalonians 2:13} Paul’s traditions then would have to do with what he passed on to them, either as something directly from the Old Testament or something that he said or wrote. Think of the offices of elders and deacons in the early church. They are grounded in the Old Testament practices and teaching, yet in the New Testament, are completely new.{Just like you are} In the Old Testament, the prophets and scribes taught and the priests ministered or served. In the church, the elders teach and the deacons serve. So really the Catholic Church is based on Church tradition, these are not because they are any use for anybody outside the Church-just traditions you have been taught-from childhood-It's just like today the Christian Church is being inundated by new ideas, new traditions, Paul preached tradition to keep the Church in order. Nothing more then that. But Catholic's believe traditions of works brings them closer to God..
Check the first paragraph of where you copied your argument.
The word tradition is defined as “the transmission of beliefs or customs from one generation to another,” or as “a long established custom passed on.” A tradition is viewed as something important and worthwhile. Some traditions are good and others are bad. We can make good use of traditions and we can also abuse them. Traditions imply longevity. They have been around for a while.
Listen to what Jesus said about His church: (1 Timothy 3:15) "But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth."
brocab: Is Catholicism a false religion? Are Catholics saved?" Let study and find the right answer to this very question: The most crucial problem with the Roman Catholic Church is its belief that faith alone in Christ is not sufficient for salvation. The Bible clearly and consistently states that receiving Jesus Christ as Savior, by grace through faith, grants salvation {John 1:12; 3:16,18,36; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9-10,13; Ephesians 2:8-9}. The Roman Catholic Church rejects this. The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins AND etc., etc., etc. Catholic divergence from the Bible on this most crucial of issues, salvation, means that yes, Catholicism is a false religion. If a person believes what the Catholic Church officially teaches, he/she will not be saved. Any claim that works or rituals must be added to faith in order for salvation to be achieved is a claim that Jesus’ death was not sufficient to fully purchase our salvation. While salvation by faith is the most crucial issue, in comparing Roman Catholicism with the Word of God, there are many other differences and contradictions as well. The Roman Catholic Church teaches many doctrines that are in disagreement with what the Bible declares. These include apostolic succession, worship of saints or Mary, prayer to saints or Mary, the pope / papacy, infant baptism, transubstantiation, plenary indulgences, the sacramental system, and purgatory. While Catholics claim Scriptural support for these concepts, none of these teachings have any solid foundation in the clear teaching of Scripture. These concepts are based on Catholic tradition, not the Word of God. In fact, they all clearly contradict Biblical principles. At the same time, the Catholic Church also leads many people away from a genuine faith relationship with Christ. The unbiblical beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church have often given the enemies of Christ opportunity to blaspheme. The Roman Catholic Church is not the church that Jesus Christ established. It is not a church that is based on the teachings of the Apostles (as described in the Book of Acts and the New Testament epistles). While Jesus’ words in {Mark 7:9} were directed towards the Pharisees, they accurately describe the Roman Catholic Church, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!”
Again, the person who wrote this does not know what the Catholic Church teaches. You copied someone else's argument from here:
For example, just to show you how stup1d people argue. They construct a straw man argument by saying what you did not say, or spinning what you said and misrepresent facts so that they can be able to make their own argument and say "this is false/wrong". But in actual sense, it's their own straw man they argued against, not the original argument of the person they misconstrued. Do you understand this now?
Below is an example of the straw man.
The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that a person must believe in Jesus Christ AND be baptized AND receive the Eucharist along with the other sacraments AND obey the decrees of the Roman Catholic Church AND perform meritorious works AND not die with any mortal sins
brocab: Yes through you, and the many Catholic's I have spoken to in the passed, I have even retrieved my info from those sites you had given me. If the Catholic's read the bible-instead of searching through other literature, then everything they say, would be correct. But the problem,is, just like you, you don't believe in the Word of God well enough to search through the scriptures, you expect me to believe every word you say: and not every Word God says. It seems you don't know what these sites hold-and what information I had retrieved from them-the main issue here is, I have found these sites, full of Catholic's having their own appointed opinions, just to be recognised on the net. None of it, has anything to do with God..
Are you saying 2 Thessalonians 2:15 is not correct? Do you still believe the verse says Scripture alone?
How are you sure what you heard from those people including me is authoritative teaching of the Church? That's why you are easy to be misled. Instead of listening to many different people saying different things,why not go directly to where they got their information from. I already directed you to go to Catholic sites, read and understand what is there and then make your own argument here on how they are wrong and unbiblical.
baby124: Your mum is mentally ill. Most over zealous and over religious people are. It’s the only way they can express what they are going through with passion. Without sounding like they are completely insane. This is where fake pastors cash out. By taking advantage of them.
Please make sure you take care of your needs first, and whatever you can, do for her. Ensure that you are settled first so that you can do more for her. The truth is, she may have had a mental break because of the stress and pressure to provide for her family and not being appreciated for it. I know you did not really mention your father but it’s obvious the man never pulled his weight.
Hair dressing is a hard and time consuming job. You really do work for every kobo you make. Ordinary braids can take 5-8hrs. It’s not easy at all. She may have been tired of all the stress and responsibility and really needed the break. The way your father could repay her effort for all those years is to quickly marry another wife on a small salary. What a selfish, irresponsible and thoughtless man. Your father is very irresponsible. I can bet that throughout the time your mother was out hustling, he was using her money to carry women. That probably contributed to her ill health.
If you can find time to talk to her in her lucid moments I am sure you will never respect your dad again. Please try and take her to a psychiatrist to get the proper drugs so that she can begin to put her life together. Yes, parents should be responsible for their kids. But, in a case like yours where she is mentally incapable, you really can’t blame her. I understand your frustration, but she needs you right now. I think it will be better if you all can take her out of that house. That may be her first step to healing.
Who knows whether your step mum is the side chick that was tormenting your mother when she was struggling to fend for her family? Now she’s in the house digging her dagger deep while feeding obese on whatever she can lay her hands on. While your mother has to share the same house with her. What a horrible life for your mum.
Very well articulated and accurate. You left no point untouched.
Ezkid: Well as an African I believe it's disrespectful and rude to diss or called out my mom for her unhealthy attitudes but I think its high time I make it public so people who has witnessed or experience such can give to me a valuable advice.
My mom was once a successful hair dresser and she was the breadwinner of our family until she became born again, she abruptly stopped plating hair for her customers based on what she tagged "unbiblical" She basically affirmed that she'll never touch attachments and synthetic hair again in her life and ever since then things hasn't been going smoothly again.
My Dad now has got a Rick Ross fatlike woman as a second wife and I think the whole situations has taken its toll on my mom's mental health, she's literally cut herself off from the outside world and everything always mean something extra terrestrial to her.
My Mom would see a gecko on the wall and believe it was sent from hell to drag her to the underground, We always packed from one apartment to the other thanks to her intolerance toward other people. Omg! She'll always find faults with her co tenants, everybody is either a witch or a spy from the underworld.
There's one thing she did that convinced me she's struggling from mental instability, we packed out from one house to a flat like apartment, do u believe my mom went back there and packed the huge rocks we used to make fire? She tagged them as her property which can never be left behind, she'll play with u today only to become unresponsive when u greet her tomorrow, she stopped her work almost 20 years ago and ever since then has become a liability on my dad and a burden on us the children, it disgusts me to feed her with my hard earned money when she's hale and healthy, she's the reason my dad was unable to send me to the university because the burden is too much on him.
What I find ridiculous about her is her mindset, her mind was wired to believe we owed her a living when in reality it's the opposite, when my dad is unable to send money she'll become so tensed and angry, its so annoying how she find it difficult to realize she is the PROBLEM of the family.
Pls I need good advice on what kind of help we the children can seek on her behalf cos its obvious she needs help. Thanks all.
Sounds like schizophrenia mixed with religious obsession. I doesn't happen in an empty vacuum, it emanates from high stress, then depression, then it gets worse to schizophrenia.
I don't really know how many well educated people this happens to. The mental disorder part of it is real but the overt religiosity exacerbates it. Check if you could relate to any of the symptoms here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Signs_and_symptoms
brocab: The only problem I am having with your remarks, is, most of the time, you expect me to read about tradition rather then read the Word of God. Most of the time I comeback to you quickly, but this time I didn't..Mostly because, you comeback with unbiblical, none scriptural tradition-you claim to be a Christian-but your main focus is Mary and the apostles, less focus on Christ.. You refuse everything I have told you about bible knowledge, you can't accept the Word of God-you have been taught tradition, and nothing else will penetrate through that.. If you are expecting me to learn about anything, then Christ is always the centre of the conversation., Without Christ, you haven't a leg to stand on, anybody that expects someone to learn about religion or tradition, then Christ is always the main attraction.. You must know by now-we don't follow the same tradition-to you-Mary is the centre of everything-to me-Christ is the centre! "The Mary that's written in the bible, is not the same Mary-you worship by Roman tradition.."We actually worship and pray too, two different God's..
You're the one jumping around fretting over Mary. I knew that since your could not understand simple teaching of Paul about Scripture and Tradition and how the Word of God is supposed to be taught, and also to help you understand there is no salvation outside the Church because salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body. This should be easier for you to understood first of all before your deliberate diversionary tactics to evade the truth.
(John 15:22) "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin." You've been spoken to, you now have no excuse for following Martin Luther.
brocab: Judgement day, starts at the Church-and because of this, I believe you are delusional-I believe God have given you the desires of your heart, "and I believe there's good reason why-you have chosen to believe the delusion-because the Roman Catholic Church has exalted Mary to an incredibly higher level then Jesus. Roman Catholic teaches-Mary brings us the gifts of Eternal Salvation: Mary is worshipped: Mary sits at the right hand of Christ: Mary Delivers our souls from death: Mary is Advocate, Helper, Mediatrix. Entrust our cares to Mary: Mary is the Queen over all things! Enough said-this is why I don't belong, to Roman Catholic theology.
I wonder where you got those info, if you didn't make it up.
brocab: The thought of God wouldn't have entered my heart mind or soul, and the Catholic Church wouldn't have even existed, if it wasn't for the apostles who were filled in the Holy Spirit to write the manuscripts in the first place. I suppose when the pyramids where built, the thought of traditional slavery, would be in place, if we had relied on the Catholic Church to see us through, we will be in no-man's land, eating the crumbs of the floor from the rich man's table. You really believe the Catholic Church is heaven on earth: God's second throne, sits in the Vatican: the Jews filled prophesy, but it was Rome that nailed Jesus to the cross.
You seem not to read my comments. You gloss over them.
9inches: No one laid hands on you, so like all your pastors, you have no authority to lead a church or act as a commissioned authority. All the apostles were laid hands on. The apostles in turn laid hands on anyone they were sending to lead the Church or evangelize. That chain of laying of hands continued till this day. So unless an authority laid hands on you, you are not officially commissioned by Jesus Christ to represent Him as a clergy and so can not become an authority on your own.
The Church never refuse to teach the Word of God. It's only devil's arrogance and pride that makes people separate from the Church. The Church's teachings are in line with the Word of God as written in the bible and as well taught by the apostles during the early days of the Church before. Arguing the bible with the Catholic Church is like arguing the Word of God with apostle Paul or Timothy.
@bolded, the answer to that is Catholics! Because the Gospel was preached not read to the early Christians. Jesus gathered a group of men, taught, prepared them and commanded them to go and preach the Gospel. He did not leave them any book; he did not ask them to write any book. The apostles only wrote out of necessity, and what they wrote were mostly reminders of what they already preached orally. This means that the people who received both the oral and written teaching have more knowledge and understanding of the message than those whose knowledge are limited to the written message only.
For almost 400 years, the Christians of those days had no bible to refer to. Therefore, the Church that Jesus Himself had set up had to primarily transmit His Word orally (some rare individual manuscripts did exist, but were mainly limited to Churches, and not considered divinely inspired as sacred scripture until 382 AD).
So without the bible you would still have the Catholic Church, but without the Catholic Church you would never have bible. It's easy to understand, the Church has existed before the bible [gospel] was written and subsequently compiled.
brocab: Was Jesus ever called a saint? All do you prefer to pray to saint's that had passed away: these you believe can save you, plus what evidence do we have that these saint's buried under the Vatican or laying in class coffins, are even in Heaven? Or is it better to pray straight to somebody who we know, is alive and well sitting on the throne of God: praying directly to "He" asking "He" to give thee the desires of our hearts.{Hebrews 4:15-16}
brocab: If I wanted to follow after Church traditions, I will go to Church, and I will obey the rules, "But to obey tradition from a Church I don't attend, "really" is this your only support, threatening me because I won't bow down with you.
{2 Thessalonians 2:12-13} because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.… Really" you are blaming the Jews-it was prophesied, what the Jews done before and after, Jesus, and it was fulfilled, don't you realise God send's delusions to all those refusing the truth, not just the Jews. God answers prayers, He send's in the authority of priest pastors Governments etc,, God gives His people the desires of their hearts. Just look around you! You believe-everyone outside the Catholic Church are delusional, well look at it from our prospective, about you..But remember this>{Hebrews 8:10-12} This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will forgive their iniquities, and remember their sins no more.”…
It's your choice, whether you want to belong in the Body of Christ or not. It's your conscience judging you, and you think I'm the one threatening you.
brocab: I don't really want to know about the Catholic Church-I have listened, to much already-after having this conversation with you, your response, had actually pushed me further away "Your Angry Anderson, mentality, how you approach anybody for instants about God, really: you couldn't win souls-not with any of the knowledge you believe, you know..
Willful ignorance. You're so scared to confront the Truth. Hard to find out all you've been sold and believe has been all lies.
Wait for me to serve you milk and honey, and probably sing you lullaby before you realize the lies you have been living in. I only respond how you respond; no one is buying your sob story. The Jews probably wouldn't have killed Jesus if their feelings weren't hurt. They placed feelings and arrogance over truth. But unfortunately for them, they killed the body but they couldn't kill the Truth.
brocab: Jesus died and risen, He is the same yesterday today and forever. Are the saints alive: can they eat and drink? {Hebrews 13:7-8} Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
"You fool! What you sow is not brought to life unless it dies (1 Corr 15:36).
(1 Corinthians 15:42-49) "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption"
brocab: If this is your way to describe tradition that the apostles taught, then I follow tradition, I also pray for the living, lay hands on the sick, and believe the Lord when He had said: go out unto all the nations and preach the gospel. But when the Church refuses to teach the Word of God-from the bible-I then carry out my own task, and study the bible knowing, that when I search, I find that all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…{2 Timothy 3:16-17} But without the bible; who would know God really exist?
No one laid hands on you, so like all your pastors, you have no authority to lead a church or act as a commissioned authority. All the apostles were laid hands on. The apostles in turn laid hands on anyone they were sending to lead the Church or evangelize. That chain of laying of hands continued till this day. So unless an authority laid hands on you, you are not officially commissioned by Jesus Christ to represent Him as a clergy and so can not become an authority on your own.
The Church never refuse to teach the Word of God. It's only devil's arrogance and pride that makes people separate from the Church. The Church's teachings are in line with the Word of God as written in the bible and as well taught by the apostles during the early days of the Church before. Arguing the bible with the Catholic Church is like arguing the Word of God with apostle Paul or Timothy.
@bolded, the answer to that is Catholics! Because the Gospel was preached not read to the early Christians. Jesus gathered a group of men, taught, prepared them and commanded them to go and preach the Gospel. He did not leave them any book; he did not ask them to write any book. The apostles only wrote out of necessity, and what they wrote were mostly reminders of what they already preached orally. This means that the people who received both the oral and written teaching have more knowledge and understanding of the message than those whose knowledge are limited to the written message only.
For almost 400 years, the Christians of those days had no bible to refer to. Therefore, the Church that Jesus Himself had set up had to primarily transmit His Word orally (some rare individual manuscripts did exist, but were mainly limited to Churches, and not considered divinely inspired as sacred scripture until 382 AD).
So without the bible you would still have the Catholic Church, but without the Catholic Church you would never have bible. It's easy to understand, the Church has existed before the bible [gospel] was written and subsequently compiled.
brocab: Martin Luther must of brainwashed the Pope too.. I see what Thessalonians say's, but you didn't explain what are the traditons Paul is speaking about?
Luther was a heretic. He died a heretic, so he won't be canonized a saint by the Catholic Church, but we can have ecumenical engagements with Lutherans of today because it was not their own making they became Lutherans.
The tradition is how the church teaches the word of God and laying of hands (commissioning preachers to preach) from generation to generation. The word of God can be perfectly taught without the bible because the apostles did not use any bible. Jesus did not leave them any written document when He was leaving.
Have you accepted that Paul never said hold on to Scripture only?
brocab: Dead saints a dead saints, how they once lived-who knows-God knows. I prefer to pray for the living, because the God I serve, is the God of the living, He is not the God of the dead. You should pray to God and ask Him why you believe you are unequal to brocab..
Christianity Etc › Re: How To Witness To Loved Ones Who Are Roman Catholics by 9inches(m): 8:51am On Apr 21, 2018
