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airmark:
Nihilistjnr, ibime, a40,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV6OtfXDd-o

Wilder won't escape with his vulnerability for long.

Ortiz is a top 5 Heavyweight. I think we should not lose sight of that.

I don't think there is anyone that does not know Wilder's weaknesses. The question is how do you not get hit for 12 rounds?? Because Wilder has a chin, better cardio than most of the other heavyweights of yore. Remember Wilder is dropping niggas 20-30 pounds heavier than his size on average

I'm still thinking of a Heavyweight that can evade Wilder for 12 rounds. You will get hit

chic2pimp:
Big Shame Bro. I'm sure some sort of trade can be worked out to get Him on the Bucks. Giannis needs a second star on that Team tbh. Don't Trust Middleton one bit and the less said about Bledsoe, the better.

If they ever get Bradley on the Bucks it's over y'all

SmooshCHN:
Did the Houston Rockets die? Why are you here?

Inside life

Celtics really hate Kyrie

I gotta ask too is this Bradley Beal nigga Kenyan? His cardio is off the chain. While the rest of the league is load managing this dude barely sits more than 2 mins each quarter. Almost a travesty that he gets to waste his prime with the Wizards

Lmaoooo I'm fed up with the internet fam

steady986:
Lol. When you're the primary ball handler you're bound to get high assists. AD is not the coach, so he can't make himself the primary ball handler.

If you like make him kindergarten ball handler he can't pass like Giannis. And I'm sure there is a reason why he's never been a primary ball handler on any NBA team (don't tell me he was a PG in high school)

One of Sports many mysteries because there is nothing you really can use to explain these undeniable patterns

biomustry:
Someone said it took Lewandowski 14 mins to reach 50% of hazard's career UCL goals. Mek una allow hazard rest

Eleyi deep

KarnBarlow:
You know this same criticism about being second fiddle was leveled at Bron when he joined the heat. Remember when he went back to cleveland and they were calling him Scottie Pippen as in the robin to wades batman?

Of course he was a back to back MVP adjudged as the best player in the league joining a less talented but more accomplished teammate (at least on an NBA finals level) he was bound to be criticized

KarnBarlow:
And over his last few years, the only statistical category AD didn't lead the pelicans in was assists. He did his time. I think theres a comment he made after he joined the lakers about not remembering a time he was playing so badly and his team was still winning.

Good. So that means he is not carrying the load of facilitating like Giannis can. Which proves my point

It's not everything that needs argument.

KarnBarlow:
Same reason LeBron ran to south beach. He made the finals in year 4, and only missed the playoffs his rookie and sophomore season. Ultimately if you want to win you need a team. We've seen superstars move to other teams to become the best player on that team all the time, KD went to the warriors however weak his move was but you can't say its because KD is more suited to a second banana.

Who is the second banana between LeNomad and AD? At least we know KD was not the second banana, they begged him to come and come NBA Finals he showed he was the first banana. Let's see if AD can follow suit

KarnBarlow:
What does this mean?

He has led his team in all stats except blocks this year. There was a year he led his team in every statistical category for the season. AD cannot shoulder the load Giannis is shouldering in Milwaukee. This is not up for debate

AD is more naturally gifted than Giannis but he can't carry the load Giannis is carrying in Milwaukee. Simple concept that should not be too hard to grasp

KarnBarlow:
The pelicans team that lost to the warriors would have a great chance against the Raptors. Again, replace Giannis with AD in the bucks last year and there'd probably be a parade in Milwaukee, not Toronto.

This is fake news. You literally cannot even prove this so die this narrative.

AD ran to LA for a reason. If he wanted that smoke he wouldn't run to a team with a top 2, top 3 guy in the league

KarnBarlow:
Of course it doesnt vault you into that but let me put it this way. If any high lottery pick ends up becoming an MVP caliber player what would be peoples reaction? "He lived up to his potential". No ones ever going to be shocked because a high lottery pick wins MVP. Every high pick from every draft has a high ceiling. Now why would it be a surprise if a number 1 pick reaches those heights when hes picked based on having the highest potential of them all? Now does that mean they all reach that level? Nope! I'm saying it won't be surprising if they did.

A lot of things go into a player ending up as a high lottery pick. And being a high lottery pick does not make you a shoo-in to become an MVP.

If Jaylen Brown becomes an MVP caliber player tomorrow it doesn't mean it will not be a surprise.

If Mitchell Trubisky a #2 pick ends up becoming an MVP people would still be surprised because the typical draft is littered with people that end up getting picked higher than they should have.

Marvin Bagley was last season's number 2 pick, DeAndre Ayton was the 1 pick. I'm sure the average fan would be surprised if they wind up MVP caliber players. It is not an exact science

AD would lead the Bucks to the Finals? Wetin man no go read for Obasanjo's internet

benji93:
If you have placed someone on a pedestal or made an initial assumption that someone will continue to be superior to infinity, you may never look at this objectively. Davis may be a singular talent- but he definitely has not done much with respect to making any of his teams better while leading. You may ascribe this to the injuries he had along the time, but the fact remains. Fortunately for you he is second fiddle now, he doesnt have to worry about the pressure of leading. When someone says he cannot lead this Bucks team the same way Giannis is, it's not a knock on his talent, just an indication that he is not a good leader or at least his track record doesnt show that adequately. Simple.

It's not hard to tell really. Maybe he is better suited as second fiddle

Lewandowski has 27 goals. We are still in November

KarnBarlow:
MVP doesnt necessarily mean the best player in the league it just means you're good enough to be in that MVP conversation. IMO every top 4 pick has MVP potential let alone the 1st pick depending on how he develops. For a franchise to use that high a pick on you shows that you must have shown glimpses of that potential because almost every draft class has produced an MVP caliber player.

No. No. No.No

Being a high pick doesn't vault you into MVP conversation. DeAndre Ayton, Markelle Fultz, Jaylen Brown, Darko Milicic, Lonzo Ball are all lottery picks. Kwame Brown, Olowokandi and Anthony Bennett are also lottery picks.

A lot of factors come into play into becoming a high draft pick including the quality of the draft class. And the evaluation ability of these teams. You don't crown a player with MVP potential without bouncing a ball, unless they have shown clear transcendent talent

Roland17:
This is a very tough one!!!! I love both guys for what they have achieved on the field and they deserve this debate.

For the records, Lawrence Taylor (LT) is the best thing I have ever seen play football.

However, for the purpose of this question I will make a case for Jerry Rice as the GOAT. Please be guided that this not about the greatest team of all time but the greatest player individually whose impact changed the face of the game. Rice was scary to watch when you imagine the things he did.

To buttress this argument, take a look at his records and you would find that no one is remotely close to matching those monstrous numbers anytime soon and this is after hanging his shoes nearly 15 years ago. Also consider this, there have been immense changes with changes with how the game is officiated, player safety, media, improvements in medicine/ wellness, training, recovery and rehabilitation and other variables he did not enjoy. If both players switched eras who would be more dominant? Brady may not be too relevant because the running game dominated the era before the 00’s, Rice will kill it every day with this era and it would not be close.

Rice holds the all time reception which stands at 1549, the 2nd place is Larry Fitzgerald with 1338, all time receiving yards 22, 895, the gap between him and 2nd place Larry is nearly 7k and finally most touch down reception stands at 197, 2nd place Randy moss is at 156. No one is beating those numbers anytime soon.

Furthermore, Rice showed up during the regular season and post season, his numbers during the post season either matched or surpassed his regular season numbers, I am not sure same can be said for Brady. Again this does not dispute Brady’s greatness but we are comparing him with another player in a GOAT conversation so don’t lose sight of that. For some reason, Brady’s numbers drop during the post season or does not match his regular season output.

There is no debate who the greatest receiver is? The consensus is J. Rice, I laugh at those who dare to put Moss in the same sentence, but can we say the same for the QB position? Some have Montana, other like me troll and say Rodgers.. Finally, consistency in coaching has been very important for Brady throughout his career.

I think people mix up most dominant with GOAT. Shaq was arguably the most dominant and unstoppable force but he was not the GOAT

I am biased to Quarterbacks because they play the most difficult position. A WR can never influence the game like a QB can and that is just the honest truth. Also a QB has so much more to process on each snap than a wide receiver. It's not even close

Also this era banter is a slippery slope. There are rumors for example that Jerry Rice used to add a bit of stickum on his hands (which he admitted to) but I digress.
What you need to consider is Jerry Rice if he played today will never be able to put up the numbers he did for a few reasons.

1) Tight Ends were not as much of a factor as they are now

2) Running backs are pass catchers now. You think Jerry Rice puts up these numbers with Alvin Kamara or Leveon Bell in the backfield?

3) We have WR 2 that put up almost similar numbers as WR1. Antonio Brown put up over 1,000 yards for the Steelers for example but guess what? Juju Smith Schuster put up even more numbers. Why? Because teams pretty much setup to take out your best receiver. Which brings me to my next point

4) Evolution of corners. Imagine Jerry Rice lining up at WR today. They would put him against ball Hawks like Richard Sherman, Jalen Ramsey, Stephon Gilmore. Probably add a deep safety to cover as well. QBs will literally refuse to throw him the ball.

Tom Brady shows up both in the playoffs and regular season. Always! In fact I can't think of any team Tom Brady did not destroy everytime apart from the Baltimore Ratbirds. Even in the Superbowls New England lost it was not for lack of effort from Tom Brady. He might not be the most naturally gifted and aesthetically pleasing player who ever did it but with 2 minutes to go, one drive and the game on the line the last man you want marching down the field against you is Tom Brady. And we all know this

Back to the WR banter the one guy I think would have challenged Jerry for the best at his position would have been Sterling Sharpe (Shannon's brother) but injury did him a huge disservice.

KarnBarlow:
The only people i remember on the same train was roland and smoosh but if you say so. I think the ben simmons stan you're looking for is decale.

There are tangibles and intangibles. Mentality is intangible and can't be measured. Can you at least admit simmons has all the tangibles bar of course his shooting? If he didnt show at least some potential he wouldnt have gone number 1 in the draft and wouldnt have been so highly rated by the scouts.

Lool I was the #1 Donovan Mitchell advocate on this thread

I was championing the campaign since January

Sports is more intangibles than we think. This is why the most 'naturally unskilled' players can go on to become HOFers just by sheer skill and will of force

I will not deny tangibles but I know enough to realize that tangibles will never be enough. This is why any holistic scouting report always leaves room for intangibles.

I am not saying he didn't show potentials at all I am saying just because you were the best player out of a draft class does not mean you have the potential to be the best player in the league.

Being a #1 pick does not mean you have MVP potential

Pointguardusa:
Not exactly. Ben Simmons is surrounded by better players than those two.

No. Ben is a #1 pick. He should have the mentality of being the best player on the court. He defers Everytime whether for lack of will or lack of skill but if he had an elite mentality he would not be 4th top scorer in a team with Tobias Harris and Josh friggin Richardson

Godx:
The Fury that showed up against Wallin doesn't have a chance in hell against the Wilder and I don't want to ever see that Fury again.

Good. So you see Fury is not infallible either, we we are on same page.

Godx:
I just know Wilder is limited and looking for the knock out all the time won't work on aggressive fighters or smart ones like the gypsy king. Everybody knew Fury won the first match and the draw decision was even questionable to many

43 fights, 41 Knockouts. I'd say it's working to a T

Gypsy King had a sound strategy but he still couldn't escape almost getting knocked out. Wilder missed so many punches that day he really should have knocked Fury out

Godx:
I can't believe how many heavyweights have fallen into this same trap over and over and over again, It's not like Wilder is doing anything special or different in there. It's the same thing double jab then a straight right down the windpipe.

My guy everyone has a plan till you get punched in the face. It's the same thing they say about Ngannou in UFC. It's not like they are doing anything special they are just blessed with fists that can send you to the nether realm

Godx:
The real question people need to ask is that this guy is a one handed fighter he can only knock you out with a right hand I am asking myself how and why no one has been able to neutralize his right hand. If the punch was coming in from a weird angle or at blinding speed then it makes sense but it isn't any of those things it's a straight right.

He's not a one handed fighter. He actually can drop you with either hand. It's just the right one is more powerful

Wilder's last three fights the thing I noticed is he may or may not need to hit you from a weird angle. He doesn't need to throw overhand rights like Riddick Bowe or nothing like that. He barely needs to move his shoulder to generate that power. It's incredibly hard to defend. Even Fury couldn't

Godx:
Compare and contrast Manny Pacquiao, back in the day Manny could only knock you out with a straight left hand this was his bread and butter punch. Then when he came into contact with JMM and after the first round JMM neutralized the effectiveness of that punch. This is why Freddie Roach prevented Manny from immediately rematching him and sought to develop Manny's right hand hence the term Manilla Ice for his right hook. The thing with Manny though at least he had blinding footspeed, great footwork, a threw loads of punches and threw them from crazy angles. Deontay, on the other hand is just basic and I get that he hits hard I understand that I really do but there are so many ways you can shut it down which Fury did to some level. At the elite level of the lighter weight classes, you need way more than just one trick to become a consistent and long term champion.

Wilder is literally a Jab and a straight right, pretty much how Klitschko was a jab jab grab fighter. Though with Wlad at least he had great boxing skills while Wilder has none.

Manny is not 6'7 with an 83 inch reach. You can scale down for proportion but even at that you can't compare the degree of devastation of a Heavyweight to a Welterweight or Lightweight boxer

You said it yourself lighter weight class. There is a reason why all the most technically sound fighters are almost always in the light weight classes

From Boxing to UFC being technically sound as a Heavyweight is a plus but not a necessity. Having KO power will keep you out of many unnecessary slugfests. It's why Wilder and Fury have fought almost the same number of rounds despite Fury being involved in almost 20 fewer fights.

chic2pimp:
The purist sef would rather watch Giannis than say a Harden. There are plenty of players more talented and skilled than Adetokunbo in the NBA but you can literally count on one hand the amount of players that have similar impact on their team's sucess.

That's why the game goes beyond skills and sometimes it comes down to heart. I wouldn't dump on Harden too hard. He's also one of the few that can carry a team

KarnBarlow:
LOL I was the first person to argue he didnt deserve ROTY on this thread, the first person to mock him after his 1 point game in the playoffs. I'm certainly not a fan boy. He was a decent scorer, elite facilitator and capable defender coming into the league. The only obvious weakness in his game was his jumper and the belief was he would at least develop that to the level of a Magic who himself didnt have a reliable Jump shot (the man shot with one hand dammit). Has Simmons sh-t the bed so far? sure, but i'm just saying. The potential was there at some point and may still be there.

No you were not. That would be me.

My issue with Ben Simmons was more mentality than the obvious glaring hole in his game. It's my issue with DeRozan as well. I don't see how you hope to be elite and refuse to change a glaring weakness in your game.

How can you hope to survive in today's league as a PG without being able or willing to shoot the ball from anywhere outside 7 ft. Without a go-to move offensively. Magic had the baby skyhook. Or the mentality to know when to take over a close game because you can't efficiently facilitate a half court offense.

I didn't see the potential then and I don't think I ever will unless he shows it

raumdeuter:
Fury knew the game he was playing, Fury avoided getting hit while he was jabbing away at Wilder, before the last round Wilder was already frustrated and was certain to lose

I personally believe Fury deliberately took that punch to get a draw and another payday

Everyone knows Wilder is always banking on that knockout punch, You can't survive for long if you are a 1 trick pony. Boxers like Fury will play the psychology, Headbutt him, wound him up, hug him, frustrate him to avoid that killer punch, that was the same thing Hollyfield and co started doing to Tyson

In a rematch I am favouring Fury in a point decision

What? Who deliberately takes a punch that sends him out of consciousness? Wilder is the Champ he was going to get a rematch regardless. The onus would be on the challenger to at least win outright so you're in the Driver's seat for any rematch negotiations

Of course Wilder was frustrated which was why he went for broke in the Final round and dropped Fury.

This man has won 42 of his 43 fights he's not doing badly for a supposed one trick pony

The key difference between Wilder and Tyson is Tyson relied on combinations. Wilder can drop you with one blow. We saw it with Fury, we saw it with Ortiz. He only needs one hit to connect and he doesn't need to telegraph it so you probably won't see it coming

I can't see Fury winning that fight if he doesn't drop Wilder

airmark:
AJ's chin may be his albatross and also it seems Wilder has perfected that fake jab setting up that knockout punch (WK's stuff). Same stuff AJ fell to against WK.

Fury just needs to work on his stamina and frustrate Wilder all-night, Holyfield-Tyson way. Ortiz was winning on cards before that punch, which i believe Fury could still manage to win on points.

Not just his chin but his head movement and just his general inability to get out the way. He is not as nimble as Wilder and it showed vs Ruiz

Beyond the stamina I still think he is going to need to look for a knockout punch somewhere. When fighting a KO artist like Wilder it is possible but very very unlikely you're going to get away with a points decision

The problem with the Ortiz approach is a guy like Wilder knows when he is losing and he will go for broke. Something is going to have to give. You either put him down or he puts you down. Even the Tyson vs Holyfield first fight eventually ended in a KO.

Roland17:
These same cats caught more than fire for Foles! Top QB’s do not make excuses about injured or unavailable receivers worth more experienced cats especially when you now add Z. Ertz (TE).
It is impossible for me to agree that his healthy receiving core are bums. He has Whiteside, Mathews, Ward and Sanders, while they are not top tier, these cats are definitely not scrubs, not to now speak of DJack, Jeffereys and Agholor when healthy.
Thing is Wentz has been very poor this season, infact since last season. I have watched him enough times to know this. Dude is missing very open throws, in-case you missed the game against Wilson and the Seahawks, you may want to see that game again. He has become a fumbling/ interception machine, I don’t know the exact numbers but they are pretty high.
As for Goff, I figured DCs will figure him out after last season and have more info to game plan for him.

This same Foles is in Jacksonville and we are seeing the beat down he has been receiving these past few weeks.

Even Zach Ertz is having a down year.

Whiteside? Lool! Matthews has been cut! Sanders is a borderline scrub and the less said about Agholor and Jeffrey who lead the league in drops.

No receiving corps have dropped more balls than the Eagles. It's easy to pick up this recent game and pile on Carson but his receivers have been either injured or poor and that's the truth

chic2pimp:
Fat Chance. Their record would have read something like 8-9 and by now the "AD has no Help" crowd would have sprung to Life.

Exactly. Giannis style might not be aesthetically pleasing to a purist but there is something about a baller that wants all the smoke on both ends of the floor. Somehow some way they will have their team playing better than their talent levels

airmark:
I still believe Tyson Fury may still be Wilder's boogeyman, before he lands that right hand.

Wilder will soon be exposed and tagged.

Tyson for his size hits like a fairy. That's his biggest problem and it's why his KO percentage is so low.

I daresay Wilder grossly underestimated Fury in their first fight. Truth be told I don't see how Fury wins without the fight going to the judges but I can see Wilder dropping Fury again and he might not be able to get up or be allowed to this time

The guy built to actually beat Wilder if not for his suspect chin and now robotic style is actually AJ. He has just the right amount of power and combinations you would need to drop Deontay

Roland17:
I am beginning to buy the argument that C. Wentz is a product of media machination and a complete hype. Dude has not matched up the expectation even after Foles departed.

Bro Wentz has no receivers. Agholor and Jeffrey cannot catch a cold and his deep threat Desean Jackson has barely played.

Maybe Wentz is guilty of holding on to the ball a little too much but his weapons are Skint! The real hype job is Jared Goff

KarnBarlow:
Not having potential is one thing, not capitalizing on that potential is another thing. The man pointed out that Simmons had/has MVP potential but hasn't capitalized on it. You claimed he never had it to begin with which is just not true. I can't believe you lot are making me defend Ben Simmons.

You were a Ben Simmons fanboy why are you denying him now in his hour of need?

Being a #1 pick does not mean you have MVP potential. It's why I said the word needs redefining as it's been thrown around very loosely. He had size and could handle the ball but really what else? He had no J and no real go-to move besides dunks and layups, he also wasn't dominant with mad hops so it's not like a Zion or Bron where you literally had to get out the way