₦airaland Forum

steady986:
Me what I don't want to hear is that Giannis is better than AD.

That one is your personal problem because no one said that

KarnBarlow:
Of course it happens every once in a while. Still a far fetched argument nonetheless. We can make the same case for literally every player that has shown signs of improvement.

Yes. Because that's the beauty of sports. Nothing is static. 3 years ago nobody was talking about Mo Salah and Sadio Mane amongst the best players on the planet

KarnBarlow:
Did AD underperform or did the Pelicans? Lets not forget hes had his injury issues early on, including his rookie year.

He had solid if not unspectacular players. Ryan Anderson, Jrue Holiday, Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans. He was not surrounded by bums and they played as well as role players are supposed to

KarnBarlow:
I literally mentioned Jrue and Rajon. But theres no denying who the best player on that team was, then you look at their performances against the warriors. Point is when he had a good team, he came good. I dont understand why people insist on blaming a player for a teams bad performance even when he plays very well. The best team will always beat the best player. No one has ever done it alone. Ever!

That's par for the course. You would hope AD is the best player in a team with Jrue Holiday and Rondo

You claimed he carried NOLA to their playoff win. That is not entirely true. He was the best player but when you average 33 and your teammate averaged 28, carrying is not the right word to use. AD didn't win enough games with that roster

KarnBarlow:
Literally no one here has said this.

It's been implied

KNIGHTBlaed:
But they said the same AD will do better than Giannis if AD was the one playing for the Bucks. Same AD will do better than Kawhi too playing for the Raptors. AD will also do the same for GSW or better in place of "guess who?" KD!!. Na this KD own weak me

Same AD led his team to 40+ wins twice in 7 seasons. How would he have gotten to that place for starters?

Steph was not this good in Year 2. Trae Young is a bad man, I was a doubter but the eye test don't lie. This kid is unconscious

obainojazz:
Rare picture of Airmark lecturing his students at the citadel of knowledge.. Who can spot hensben

This is MINT

Kobe dropping his nuts on Dwight's grill, no wonder they never got along.

But man Kobe had mad hops!! This man was in orbit posterizing a man 5 inches taller than he was.

KarnBarlow:
Its not about putting him on a pedestal, someone got on this forum and said pascal siakam is a better player than AD, of course any sane person would be outraged. People forget that AD was the most obvious number 1 pick since lebron james, came into the league and unfortunately ended up in New Orleans with garbage teams most of his career. He got Boogie Cousins and then lost him to injury but put the pelicans on his back along with Jrue and Rondo and led them to a first round sweep of the trailblazers, and then fell to golden state even managing to steal a game from them in their prime averaging 30. That was the only competitive team this man has had and you can't accuse him of choking or not showing up ever in his career. I'm not calling AD the best player in the league, the disrespect is just way too much. This guy is a bona fide monster on the court.

I don't know why you lot took that statement personal and to heart, he even backtracked eventually.

I took it up because the NBA is littered with players that didn't get to the league with as much fanfare as AD but were able to make it work and become a force in the league (Giannis, Harden) when they were on the come up I'm sure suggesting they could reach the levels of the marquee players in the league would have been laughable at the time.

I put it to you that AD underperformed at New Orleans. They only ever topped 40 wins twice in his stay there. He wasn't even rookie of the year and only managed a paltry 13ppg which was poor for a #1 pick

When they beat the Blazers, Jrue Holiday averaged 28pts per game and played stellar D on Lillard, not forgetting Mirotic averaging 18pts Don't come and paint the picture of AD doing it all on his own, nothing could be further from the truth. They were overmatched by the Warriors obviously but Holiday put decent numbers too

chic2pimp:
Absolutely!....For a Lad that has enjoyed little post season success, the Pedestal is constantly being put on is almost somewhat cringeworthy. Phenomenal player but let's calm our ti..ts down please.

I won't blame their failures entirely on him but what was his ceiling at New Orleans? Who will suggest Giannis didn't meet it last year?

Of course AD and Giannis are different with different types of skillset but just because AD's style is more aesthetically pleasing does not make Giannis any less effective

This notion that anybody can never be as good as AD is what I don't want to hear.

KarnBarlow:
I strongly disagree, we've seen players neutralize other players mano e mano on multiple occasions. In fact we see it every single day. Many players take the challenge of guarding other players one on one and succeeded without needing zone or help defense. Thats my definition of clamping someone.

You would struggle to give me 3 instances where a player guards another mano a mano for the duration of a game. It simply does not happen in today's basketball

Who are these many players you speak of that singlehandedly guard without needing zone or help defense in today's switch everything league?

chic2pimp:
The thing shock me too o. Infact I had to check if there was another Superstar player in the league called AD. Lawd knows the different kinds of excuses we would have heard had AD being in Jokic's place last season

AD is a really great player but the pedestal he's being put on by some is just ridiculous. Suggesting he can't be compared to anyone or his level cannot be reached?

That was why I brought the example of Harden. If Harden was not handed the keys to his own team would he be at this level today? When he was leaving OKC who in their right minds would have predicted he would be this great? If you suggested he could be as good as a D.Rose at the time in the future you would be laughed out of the country but look at what happened?

Even Kawhi is another example. You just never know and that's all I'm saying

KarnBarlow:
I'm not denying this. I'm talking about this narrative about Kawhi single-handedly guarding Giannis or what you just proposed that he can guard Kawhi. Thing is if you had kawhi on a man to man with Giannis without his teammates he would have gotten abused as well. So its inaccurate to say Kawhi clamped him. Its wild to say kawhi is going to clamp AD.

Nobody literally single handedly guards anybody. That is myth and Urban legend. This is the NBA not Rucker Park so don't take hyperbole for literal meaning

When somebody is talking about guarding another player more often than not they are implying being the primary defender on that player. These stats heads collate these things and I'm sure you can see the different figures for each player guarding an opponent. So when I say clamp I don't feel I need to clarify that

KarnBarlow:
But we saw lebrons improvement from the mid range and the post the regular season after the finals. Apart from a more improved albeit erratic 3 pt shooting whats changed about Giannis?

LeBron is always the first to say how he wasn't a well rounded player in those finals. If he was improved enough to do better than 17 points in that series he would've done that. He didn't.

It's not just as simple as saying oh he choked. Give that Dallas team credit, they had a great game plan and they executed it perfectly. You should watch this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9w_XUQyJJQ

Just no..

10-11
From 3ft to 10ft - 45%
10 to 16ft - 42%
16ft to 3pt line - 43%
3pt - 33%

11-12
From 3ft to 10ft - 46%
10 to 16ft - 48%
16ft to 3pt line - 37%
3pt - 32%

What you call improvement was minor to borderline negligible. The numbers don't lie

Concluding on Giannis after 9 games is premature, prior to Game 3 of the ECF nobody was talking about any of Giannis's weaknesses so I don't see why people are being so quick to play Monday Morning Quarterback

Giannis won his first playoffs series last year and ran into a bad matchup. It happens

LeNomad did choke. Both can be true. The Mavs could execute their game plan and LeNomad chokes as well. A 10pt drop in playoffs average is a chokejob that must be understood before analysing why

KarnBarlow:
It takes a team effort to slow Antetokounmpo down. And that's exactly what Toronto gave on Sunday. Seemingly every time Giannis got inside the three-point line, he faced multiple defenders.

And these weren't lazy double-teams. These were solid help-and-recovers, hands-high doubles and late shows, several of which forced Giannis into turnovers.


This is from the article you just posted. I repeat, put kawhi on a man to man on AD and he gets cooked.

What are you on about? This isn't a game of H.O.R.S.E! Of course his teammates would chip in with team defense from time to time. Where and how is it possible for a player to be guarded by one man for the entirety of a possession?

Where Kawhi was Giannis's primary defender there has been clear demarcation on the impact of Kawhi guarding Giannis vs other Raptors guarding Giannis.

There is not a player alive that can't be guarded or slowed down in the right circumstances. Not one. Better players than AD have been clamped man to man. Laughable to suggest Kawhi can't do it

KarnBarlow:
Why does everything have to be about lebron with you? And what happened with lebron after the 2011 finals? he improved his game and added other facets to it, like Roland said, what has Giannis done to make you think he has covered those holes in his game?

Why not let the season unfold and stop pre-ejacing. So if LeNomad at the peak of his physical prime could shit the bed then why is Giannis not allowed a bad series?

You think LeNomad's game was not improved enough to do better than 17pts per game in a Finals series?

What was Steph's weakness when he choked in the 2016 Finals?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2837174-did-kawhi-leonard-raptors-find-the-secret-to-shutting-down-giannis


We've seen KD, Kobe, The GOAT, LeNomad get clamped and their efficiencies reduced but it's ordinary AD that can't be guarded. Lmaooooooo

Roland17:
For what it is worth and for the sake of argument and your post, Giannis has enjoyed only one spectacular season and that was his MVP season last year, right? So we don’t have an exhaustive body of work to make any conclusive debate in relation to AD in whatever context you put it.

This is very inaccurate. With all due respect.

Giannis has had 3 All-star caliber seasons. He's always been the better passer and defender as well

Roland17:
Bare in mind they entered the league 1 year away from each other, 2012 & 2013. The same narrative will be made for Siakam, he has only enjoyed 1 spectacular season, he has not done anything over a long period of time so why should I believe you over someone who has been playing at this level since he entered the league especially when he is healthy? There are a lot of ifs and buts in the narrative you guys are choosing.

This is not an argument about who has had the better career so bringing the year they entered the league is completely unrelated to the argument

For Siakam we are saying he can get to AD's level over time. We are not saying he is as good now.

Roland17:
Please don’t misconstrue my argument to mean Giannis is not a superstar in this league because that would be untrue but don’t make it sound like he is better than AD. If a healthy AD replaced Giannis in that Bucks roster last year, they beat the Raptors, no questions asked, spot the difference.

Lool you think Kawhi won't clamp AD? Lool

Roland17:
You can game plan for one by building the proverbial wall at the entrance of the key as discovered by Brad Stevens and force him to become a jump shooter and even if he penetrates, foul him and send him to the FT line, the other? Your guess is as good as mine. As for Siakam, it is not even close and I maintain that.

The same AD that only made the playoffs twice in NOLA? Abeggi

Didn't Brad Stevens wall the paint? Didn't Giannis still destroy the Celts and his strategy? It's a pity Giannis had to share the court with mediocre guards like Eric Bledsoe

Kyrie had a shittier postseason but nobody is talking about how we can game plan for him

You people are so funny. LeNomad averaged 17pts per game in an NBA Final series at the peak of his physical prime. Dropping 8pts in one game.

He was two years older than Giannis btw. He was not a glorified bum then that didn't understand zone though

Clowns I spot em and I can't stop laughing

steady986:
So I guess that makes him the greatest of all time

Lmaoooo continue proving my point

steady986:
Lol. No vex now, I'm only answering to your claims about Giannis finishing top 20 in every statistical category.


Giannis was top in his team in steals and blocks, but AD dwarfed him in those categories. The rebounds were virtually the same. So, leading your team in a category doesn't necessarily mean you're the best at doing that thing.

AD has never finished top 20 in all 5 categories, no player ever has apart from Giannis

steady986:
I've lost track of the point you're trying to make, remind me again.

You have the attention span and memory of a goldfish so I would not be surprised at all

steady986:
You just wrote bullocks to be honest with you. The picture below is their stats for last season. The blue represents AD while the green represents Giannis. I presume last season was Giannis' best season till date, while last season was probably AD's worst season since he became a superstar. Don't mention me again on this matter.

You are a complete unrepentant clown!

AD's best season he averaged 28/11.8/2 on 50% shooting

Giannis's best season 27.7/12/5.9 on 58% shooting

So if you think they are not comparable you must be certifiably crazy

steady986:
Smh. Harden was drafted 3rd overall, of course we all had high expectations for him

Who is the we? You're clearly dense because that's completely unrelated to the argument.

If he didn't leave OKC would he be an MVP caliber player?

steady986:
Lol. If you think Giannis is better than AD, I suggest you wake up. The only reason his numbers have gone down slightly is because he's playing with LeBron. Giannis should be averaging 35 as the primary scorer on his team. Oh, I forgot, he doesn't have a mid range.

Put Giannis on the same team with LeBron and he'll average 15 points. Peace out bro.

Lool go and argue with LeESPN that ranked Giannis #1 in the league.

Even your Davis has never averaged more than 28pts per game so don't come and give us burnt dodo

Why should Giannis average 35pts as primary scorer? There are other players on the team and Giannis is his team's primary facilitator. When has AD ever led his team in all 5 statistical categories over an entire season?

Come and mention me when AD finishes top 20 in every statistical category over an entire season. Even your LeNomad has never done that

steady986:
Kawhi was 2-11 tonight and had 9 turnovers. Is that your "best player in the league"?

And meanwhile, GS are still going down. It's like they're trying to find oil.

And Draymond Green. HOF my áss. The only thing that guy knows how to do is defend. They're getting exposes one by one.

But they won while your LeNomad caught the L

steady986:
Lol. You've already explained it na. You can't be MVP if you play from the bench.

He jumped from 15pts per game to 35 pts per game. That is what can happen when you're allowed to Captain your own ship.

Prior to him leaving OKC I'm sure naysayers like you would be among the people suggesting Harden will never be in discussion for best player in the league

steady986:
Of course I knew it was a banter, but obviously your guy A40 didn't get the memo

I don't need any memo just come and explain how Harden transformed from 6th man to perennial MVP candidate.

Every player has the capacity to improve if they apply themselves in an expanded role.

steady986:
Lol. In other words, Siakam is likely to improve to AD's level while AD is likely to stagnate for Siakam to catch up with him. Nice analysis bro.

You need Brighter Grammar

Anyway come and explain how Giannis caught up with AD. 3 years ago only a crazeman will mention Giannis and AD in the same breath. Did AD stagnate or why are they comparable now?

Roland17:
Baba, you are making my point which I was very specific about. Based on your argument, AD would have to suffer a career changing injury, stagnate, regress significantly for Siakam to stand any chance of catching up to AD worth more surpassing him. And this is in the instance Siakam development does not stall either. To me that is an unfair argument against AD because it places him at a disadvantage. If every variable remains constant and based on their respective skill and natural ability, Siakam does not stand any chance. AD is a very very rare talent!

Both took different paths to get to where they are presently. Siakam is just starting the journey so it is pointless comparing based on historical production

What I am saying is AD joined a better team and so his numbers were likely to suffer a slight dip regardless, which is the price you pay for joining a loaded team. There is a reason AD did not stay in New Orleans, he left so he can improve his legacy on a better team so I don't know how it is a disadvantage. KD did it, even his mentor LeNomad did it. This would not be an excuse

There is nothing about variable or constant. This is about how well they can produce in similar roles and keeping their teams competitive while at it.

If James Harden could go from a 15ppg 6th man to a 35ppg MVP perennial candidate then Siakam can too. This is the koko of what I've been saying

Between 15/16 season and 17/18 season. Giannis went from.

17/7/4 to 27/10/5

I'm sure back then if you suggested Giannis could be as good as AD they would call you crazy

Roland17:
It would be difficult to near impossible to make that case for Siakam, especially when you consider the age difference between both players is just 1. AD is 26 while Siakam is 25. I don’t see AD slowing down or regressing anytime soon except a career altering/ ending injury occurs and Siakam would have to work his tails out to catch up with, worth more surpassing AD. If Siakam was like 5-7 years younger than AD then I may consider your school of thought. AD is an exceptional talent who can surpass the peak he achieved in New Orleans and that is scary.

If we're arguing based on AD's previous body of work then absolutely we all know Siakam as a late Bloomer by default has no hope of reaching that level.

However if you're telling me Siakam cannot keep improving to the level AD is now then I disagree. We cannot argue about who is more naturally gifted, the more athletic player and all but in terms of pure production there is nothing suggesting Siakam cannot get to that level. 3-4 years ago nobody was talking about Giannis as anything remotely resembling an MVP contender but today he is arguably the best player in the league, James Harden was a sixth man in OKC but we saw what he was able to do in an expanded role.

There is nothing that suggests that AD cannot stagnate or that his production will not take a hit by nature of the stacked team he is playing for. I would rather watch the drama play out than put a ceiling on what a player can or cannot do

xwolverine:
He’s actually my favourite player right next to VanVleet, but come on! AD is a glitch, he shouldn’t be as good as he is by human standards.

Pskills is playing in a system that won the chip last season, AD was phenomenal on a shitty Pelicans team who’s next best player was Julius fucking Randle and still he bodied everyone he faced, don’t let his current average performances fool you, he is going to get a hang of it once the team chemistry improves. Plus, AD(26) is just a year older than pskills(25), are you saying he’s going to be as good within a year?

This is the best Pskills has looked and he’s still not matched AD with an average performance. Let’s be factual bruuuuh

You guys are being unnecessarily emotional about this banter. Nobody said he is as good as AD. Not me at least

However if he keeps improving there is no reason to suggest he cannot be in the discussion. This is a guy that has gone from 7pts per game to 17pts per game and thus far averaging 27-9-3. So you mean to tell me if Siakam keeps producing at this rate and can carry Toronto to solid playoff runs (what AD never did btw) that we wouldn't be able to compare both?? I don't buy that!

Already I can argue he is a better 3pt shooter than AD. And can only improve the rest of his game as he gets more polished. We have never seen Siakam hold down an expanded role like this season and thus far there is nothing to suggest he can never be AD level. He is not AD level now but don't tell me he can't be.

He is averaging 27 a game on 49.7% shooting, his EFG is also higher, the numbers don't lie